Jamie Pushbutton (Hatebreed, Death Threat)

Summary

HardLore: Stories from Tour – Episode Featuring Jamie Pushbutton (Hatebreed, Death Threat)
Release Date: February 6, 2025

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Introduction

In this landmark episode of HardLore: Stories from Tour, hosts Colin Young and Bo Lueders delve deep into the chaotic and inspiring journey of Jamie Muckenhaupt, better known as Jamie Pushbutton. As a pivotal figure in the hardcore, punk, and metal scenes of the late '90s, Jamie shares his experiences, challenges, and triumphs with the audience, providing invaluable insights into the life of a touring musician in the hardcore community.

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Early Life and Musical Genesis

Jamie Muckenhaupt hails from Springfield, Massachusetts, where his introduction to music was heavily influenced by the local metal scene.

"I got into metal through a head shop in Springfield with Iron Maiden and Sabbath banners," Jamie recalls ([04:19]).

A pivotal friendship introduced him to punk rock, particularly the early British acts like the Sex Pistols and The Clash, which shaped his musical direction.

"We would play old Sex Pistol songs, little Clash songs," Jamie explains ([05:25]).

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Formation of Bloodbath and Push Button

At the tender age of 14, Jamie took up the drums, initially as a necessity for his first band, Last Breath. However, it was his involvement with Andy Crespo, Bruce LePage's roommate and a pivotal figure in the local music scene, that led to the formation of Bloodbath—a band that would later evolve into Push Button.

"Andy introduced me to a lot of music, but he introduced Bruce and me. Then, we just put everyone in the same room," Jamie shares ([10:35]).

Andy Crespo played a crucial role in consolidating the members, fostering a collaborative environment that birthed Bloodbath, and eventually Push Button.

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Recording Satisfaction with Hatebreed

One of the most significant milestones in Jamie's career was recording the album "Satisfaction" with Hatebreed. Reflecting on this period, Jamie shares his technical frustrations and artistic regrets.

"The one thing that, like, from a drummer's perspective, that I don't love about Satisfaction is that I sold my china. It'd probably be a totally different record if I used a china," Jamie admits ([22:18]).

Colin responds with enthusiasm about the iconic 18-inch Zildjian China Cymbal, expressing a desire to see Jamie use it in future recordings.

"Jamie, I'm going to tell you something: whenever time machine technology is invented, I'm going back and handing you a crisp 18-inch Zildjian China," Colin jokes ([22:31]).

Jamie acknowledges this sentiment, emphasizing the importance of cymbal selection in defining the album's sound.

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Touring with Hatebreed and Death Threat

Jamie’s tenure with Hatebreed and Death Threat marked a period of intense touring and collaboration. Discussing his integration into Hatebreed, Jamie highlights the band's momentum and the natural progression from Push Button to more prominent acts.

"Push Button was winding down... Hatebreed was picking up momentum," Jamie explains ([42:05]).

His collaboration with Death Threat extended his influence internationally, allowing him to tour Europe for the first time, performing at events like Revolution Calling in Eindhoven and in cities across Canada.

"Last year with Death Threat, we played Revolution Calling in Eindhoven... It was incredible," Jamie recounts ([79:04]).

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Struggles, Incarceration, and Redemption

Jamie opens up about his battles with drug addiction, which ultimately led to his arrest and a 20-year sentence—of which he served seven years. During his incarceration, Jamie found solace and purpose through music, participating in prison bands despite the harsh conditions.

"Getting locked up was the best thing to happen to me," Jamie reflects ([56:55]).

He credits his time in prison with forcing him to confront his addiction and re-evaluate his life choices, leading to his eventual sobriety and return to the music scene.

"Having said that, I wish I could have learned that with a two-year sentence," Jamie confesses ([57:46]).

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Reunion and Current Endeavors

Upon his release, Jamie reunited with Death Threat, reigniting his passion for music and contributing to anniversary shows that resonate deeply with fans. Reflecting on his return:

"It felt incredible," Jamie shares about performing with Death Threat again ([54:13]).

He discusses ongoing plans to write new music with Death Threat, ensuring that the band's legacy continues to evolve while honoring its roots.

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Personal Life and Reflections

Jamie provides a candid look into his personal life, discussing his role as a father and the challenges of balancing family with his musical endeavors. He emphasizes the importance of strong relationships and the support he has received from friends within the hardcore community.

"It's a good friend, you're riding my bike to work. Just have my mind blown," Jamie remarks on his interactions with other musicians ([74:12]).

His journey is a testament to resilience and the transformative power of music, illustrating how one can overcome significant adversity through passion and support.

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Notable Quotes

• Jamie Muckenhaupt:
  "I wasn't a knucklehead. I made a pretty conscious decision once I realized I could get out when I was, you know, 50." ([56:52])

• Colin Young:
  "You've inspired many. You will continue to inspire many, and now they get to know you a little bit better, and so have I." ([89:35])

• Jamie Muckenhaupt:
  "I've always respected drummers like Mackie and Carl Cage for their influence on my style." ([35:07])

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Conclusion

The episode concludes with a heartfelt exchange between the hosts and Jamie, celebrating his contributions to the hardcore scene and his personal journey of redemption. Jamie expresses his gratitude for the opportunity to share his story, marking HardLore: Stories from Tour as a definitive chronicle of the relentless spirit that drives the hardcore community.

"This is the first podcast or really interview that I've ever done. So it was fun and I definitely kind of had built up in my head a little bit because some of this stuff feels like a lifetime ago," Jamie reflects ([86:44]).

Colin and Bo express their admiration and appreciation, underscoring Jamie's lasting impact on the genre and inspiring new generations of musicians.

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Insights and Reflections

Jamie Pushbutton’s narrative is a powerful blend of passion, struggle, and redemption. His experiences highlight the volatile life of a hardcore musician—balancing the demands of touring, personal demons, and the unyielding pursuit of artistic expression. The episode serves as both a tribute and a cautionary tale, illustrating how music can be a double-edged sword that offers both solace and challenges.

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Final Thoughts

HardLore: Stories from Tour successfully captures the essence of Jamie Pushbutton's journey, offering listeners an authentic and engaging portrayal of life on the hardcore touring circuit. Through candid conversations and poignant reflections, Jamie's story becomes a beacon of resilience and unwavering dedication to the music he loves.

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Transcript

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

The one thing that, like, from a drummer's perspective, that I don't love about Satisfaction. It'd probably be a totally different record if I used a china and I was using the shit out of a china and push button and even Bloodbath, but I had sold my china. Or guess what?

[Beau]

That was a dagger. That was a dagger to his.

[Colin]

Jamie, I'm going to tell you something whenever. Whenever. Not if time machine technology is invented. I'm going back and I'm handing you a crisp 18 inch.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yeah.

[Colin]

Zildjian china. Hello, welcome. It's hard Lore time. How are you, Beau?

[Beau]

I'm doing so well.

[Colin]

Me too. This is to me a landmark episode of the show. Big one for you, big one for me.

[Beau]

Ben is me as well, but big one.

[Colin]

For all you know, I'm from Connecticut, so it's a little different. We've got here one of my favorite drummers of all time, a guy that inspired me and many, many of my peers. More than just about anybody. There's a very short list of hardcore drummers who defined the late 90s, which has now kind of come to define what modern hardcore is. The man's name is Jamie Muckenhaupt, AKA Jamie Pushbutton. Welcome, Jamie, welcome.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Thank you.

[Colin]

Thank you for being here with us today. I really had to talk you into this one.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

You did, you did. I'm just.

[Colin]

Yeah, I'm glad I did. Last night was my first time. I've seen Death Threat many times.

[Beau]

Same.

[Colin]

But I've never gotten to see Death Threat with. With the man that recorded the songs until yesterday. And like, I know just posting that video, the amount of like iconic hardcore drummers who responded, it being just excited to say there were guys who were like, I. I just watched this five times. I can't believe I watched it five times. Couldn't believe it. So how does it feel just to play with Death Threat again? Something like last night. Fya. Have you played many shows with Death Threat back?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Just about five or six.

[Beau]

Five or six.

[Colin]

You're still breaking in. You haven't missed a beat.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

I'm the old new guy.

[Colin]

That's right.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

So to speak.

[Colin]

That's right.

[Beau]

You're right, though. There was something. I don't know the name of the song at the top of my head, but it's just. And that's a song I've known since I was a teenager. And seeing you play it, there was a moment of like, that's the guy.

[Colin]

Yeah, you.

[Beau]

He did that.

[Colin]

There's something about watching a band and they have a new drummer who doesn't do the stuff.

[Beau]

Yeah.

[Colin]

And if, you know, if you've ever covered a song, you know what I'm talking about. You got to do the stuff.

[Beau]

Got to do the stuff.

[Colin]

Jamie, it was so nice to finally hear the stuff. How are you doing today?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Doing great. I'm doing great. Happy to be in warm Florida instead of Massachusetts.

[Colin]

60, 62 degree Florida vs. 61 degree Springfield, Mass. Are you in Springfield?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Well, that's where I'm from originally. We live on Cape Cod now.

[Colin]

Okay.

[Beau]

Oh, the quad.

[Colin]

Great chip.

[Beau]

Those are good chips.

[Colin]

Good chips.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Contrary to a lot of people's misconception, I am not from Connecticut. Never lived in Connecticut.

[Colin]

That's right. And just. We'll get into that. They just needed you and drummer needed you. The most valuable resource to a musician, to a band is the drummer.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yeah.

[Colin]

So Springfield, Massachusetts. Tell me about growing up there, how you found hardcore of all things.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

I got into. I mean, it seems like everybody's pathway to hardcore is either through, you know, metal, hip hop, one of those, you know, I kind of got into it through. Through metal, I think through. There was a head shop in Springfield, Mass. You know, I saw the Iron Maiden banner and Sabbath banner and all that kind of stuff. Like, what is this? And so I got in, you know, I got into metal. Had a really close friend in Springfield that kind of introduced me to like, punk rock, period, like, in general, you know.

[Colin]

What kind of punk were you into?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Sex Pistols definitely were huge.

[Colin]

So early Gen 1.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yeah, Gen 1, you know, late 70s punk.

[Beau]

Yeah.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Any misses for some reason, I gravitated towards the British stuff.

[Colin]

Of course. That's. I mean, there's a. Yeah.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Kind of thing.

[Beau]

Yeah, for sure.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

So, you know, I got really into. Into punk. There was a old place in Springfield called the Zone Art center that had, you know, kind of college rock kind of bands.

[Colin]

Sure.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

That's. That's where I first kind of saw people with mohawks. People, you know.

[Colin]

You ever have a mahogany?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

I did.

[Beau]

Really? Do you ever have mark? Yeah, me either.

[Colin]

I wasn't brave enough.

[Beau]

No.

[Colin]

You know, takes a certain kind of guy.

[Beau]

How old were you? Like Head Shop era, Like around the time when you were like, I'm curious about music.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

About 14 or 15.

[Beau]

Yeah, that's. That's about.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yeah.

[Colin]

So how far into that do you decide to start playing drums?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

It was a couple years. It was the same guy who introduced me to. To a lot of punk stuff also played guitar or was learning guitar.

[Beau]

Yeah, we got a band coming along.

[Colin]

He Fucking tricked you. He needed you.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

And, you know, just by default, I was kind of, you know, well, I got to pick up something, and we already have a guitarist, and so we, you know, we just. We would play old Sex Pistol songs, little Clash songs.

[Colin]

Cool.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Just stuff. It wasn't really. Until I met. I met this guy at that. At this place in Springfield, the Zone Arts center, which is definitely not a hardcore metal kind of venue.

[Colin]

Sure.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

But he was Bruce's roommate. Bruce LePage's roommate.

[Colin]

Page 100 demons.

[Beau]

So you guys go that far back?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

[Colin]

You two go the furthest back, would you say, of. Of the. Of anybody in. In that you're like, current circle?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yeah, definitely. Wow. Certainly for me, because I'm a little younger than Bruce, Right. So, you know, I. But anyway, he was living with Bruce at the time, this guy Andy, Right. Who owns a record store in Massachusetts now.

[Colin]

Awesome.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

And Andy introduced me to a lot of music, but he introduced Bruce and I. And then, you know, I used to go over there and, you know, I mean, I saw Bruce was fresh out of the army, shaved head.

[Colin]

Right.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Psychopath. And I'm, you know.

[Colin]

You're a tall slenderman, you know.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yeah. And I'm a teenager looking for trouble, looking for new music, all that kind of stuff in. Yeah. And I mean, the world just opened up as far as music. Like, this guy Andy was all about, you know, punk, like, it. Poison idea, kind of. Kind of vain. He was into grindcore, ggl, and all the stuff that was really kind of off the wall then.

[Beau]

Cool.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

And. And then Bruce was just kind of still, I think, pretty fresh to knowing, like, what was what with hardcore. And this is like, during the kind of like, in effect, era of. Of New York stuff. Like, so, like, sick of it all.

[Beau]

Yeah.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Raw deal at the time and good stuff. And he started taking me to shows, burst in. Yeah.

[Colin]

Beautiful.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Well, Bruce and Andy, both of them.

[Beau]

And is that still in. In Western Mass, or were you more in. Like, were you. Had you relocated? Relocated or were you still in.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

We were still in Western Mass. Yeah. Yeah, Yeah. I had never really left Western Mass. During my childhood or anything like that.

[Colin]

So how far into knowing each other? Because what, bloodbath was not first, right?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Correct.

[Colin]

Were you in a band called Last Breath?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

I was so Last breath.

[Colin]

The son, Jamie Josta, did it again. He took this. He took. He took the rich from Bolt, or he took the name from you.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

I don't think he even, probably, to this day, doesn't even know about Last, really. I mean, it was it wasn't really hardcore. It was more like, I would say, like a DC sound. What a great.

[Colin]

Wow.

[Beau]

Great name.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yeah.

[Colin]

So you did it first.

[Beau]

What do they call that? What do the comedians call that? Where you tell the same joke? Parallel thinking. Some parallel thinking going along with that.

[Colin]

So Last Breath. Is that your first band ever?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yeah, it was.

[Beau]

Wow.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

It was.

[Colin]

How short lived was that? Is. Can that. Is that something I can look up in here?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

No, there's. There's one song on an old Western Mass comp called Back Again.

[Colin]

Cool.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Cool. It's not very good.

[Colin]

Here it is.

[Beau]

He said he'll find.

[Colin]

Sorry, Steven. I will find it, Jamie. So Bloodbath comes along. Bloodbath will eventually be known as Push Button Warfare once Bruce leaves and then would come back. But tell me about Bloodbath. This is first. Is this first, like, serious band?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Definitely.

[Colin]

Okay.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yeah. I mean, like having. Having actual songs and, you know, thinking about recording, like, in that sense, it was definitely like the first real band.

[Colin]

And are they, like Western Mass bands? Bloodbath and Push Button? Because I have a push button shirt that says Western Mass Hardcore.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yep. So members of both of those bands, all Western Mass.

[Colin]

Gotcha.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yep.

[Colin]

Interesting. So how does the Connecticut Connection come? Just out of. Sure. Sheer geographical proximity.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yes. It really comes from. From, like, just going to shows. Yeah. Around this time, we met Aaron and quite a few other, like, Connecticut. Connecticut guys, you know, for the first time. Long before we were in any bands together. But just, you know, those guys used to come to Western Mass for shows, vice versa. We'd go there and were there any.

[Colin]

Was there any kind of territorial beef at first, or was it kind of like, oh, those Connecticut guys are cool.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Well, I'm sure you guys know, like, back then, I mean, any kind of music, like, that was so few and far between. There wasn't a lot of territory beefs. It was more like, you know, you size someone up. Yeah, you're all right.

[Colin]

Yeah.

[Beau]

Yeah. Right.

[Colin]

So there wasn't like, fuck these Connecticut guys. It was like, this is brotherhood. For example.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

It would be back then. It would be more like, you know, fuck these metal dudes. Fuck these hippie people or whoever it.

[Beau]

Was, you know, what time frame are we talking here?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

What year, like, Bloodbath was around? I think when we first started talking about. It was like 89, 90.

[Beau]

Okay.

[Colin]

Damn.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

So it was a long time ago.

[Beau]

Okay.

[Colin]

You were. You beat him. You were early.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yeah.

[Colin]

Wow. So Push Button evolves out of Bloodbath.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

And I'm sure, I know Bruce has discussed this before or, you know, kind of discussed the history of it. But this guy Andy is really the one who put Bloodbath together and, like, put all the people in the same room.

[Colin]

What was his last name?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Crespo.

[Colin]

Andy Crespo.

[Beau]

And he runs a record store.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yep. In Florence, Mass. It's near Northampton. If you've ever heard of Northampton. Mystery Trainer.

[Colin]

Mystery Train Records in Florence, Mass.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

No, I'm getting it wrong.

[Colin]

Mystery Train Records in Massachusetts. Check it out and thank him for bringing people for all of this.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yeah, but he was Andy. He was Bruce's roommate. Andy was Bruce's roommate.

[Colin]

Okay.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

And, like, you should start a band. I know. Bruce talked about all this, too.

[Colin]

Totally.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

You should be a front manual because. Because he's Bruce.

[Beau]

Yeah, sure.

[Colin]

A real person.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

And I was kind of just learning the drums. And we knew Paul, who. Who went on to be in a million other bands. Shadows Fall and everything. But he was in a local metal band called Threshold, I think, prior to Bloodbath. So we kind of knew him peripherally. And there was this guy Carl, who was in another Western Mass. Band. Wishful Thinking. So anyway, kind of put us all.

[Colin]

Together now in 89. Are drummers as precious of a resource as they are today?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

I would say so. Like, reliable ones who could.

[Beau]

I mean, it just. It just tracks because who wants to lug it around? Who wants to buy it? Who wants to.

[Colin]

Yeah, I think I've kind of come to terms with that. It was kind of like a growing up. If it's about. It was about space. Like literal square footage to play drums.

[Beau]

Sure.

[Colin]

And like pure happenstance of. If you had a place to play, you could learn. If not, you're playing guitar.

[Beau]

Yeah.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

And that was my ace in the hole for getting in bands was like. My mom would put up with us playing in the basement.

[Colin]

Mom had the bass. Basement.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Exactly.

[Beau]

My mom let us play in the garage. See, you know, that's.

[Colin]

And Connecticut, Springfield. You know how many incredible things were born out of these damn basements? You wouldn't believe it. You wouldn't believe it if I told you. So does Push Button and Bloodbath tour at all?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

No. Push. Push Button. I guess you could call it a tour. I mean, a couple weekends.

[Colin]

Okay.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

But Blood Death. Never interesting. We played. We played Hartford once. It's kind of a big deal.

[Colin]

What do you remember where.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

West Hartford Ballroom. I think it was. That was the first time, actually, that we, like, really hung out with Aaron and Brad.

[Colin]

In West Hartford.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yeah. Wow. Because we had seen them, but we.

[Colin]

Were like, that's primarily where I grew up is West Harbor. Born in Bristol because of espn. Thanks. Thank you, espn. And then primarily in West Hartford. So that's very cool.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

But just to give you an idea of the era, like Bloodbath would play with, like, big mistake. I'm sure you've heard of them.

[Colin]

Totally.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

You know, just that era, you guys were extreme. Yeah.

[Colin]

Amongst. Amongst everything else going on.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

And even though by today's standards we weren't, you know, too heavy sounding, we had like more of a hardcore sound, I think, than like the punk sound that was around.

[Colin]

Yeah, totally. So what. What happens between Bloodbath, Push Button and hitting the road and the studio hard with Death Threat and Hate Breeding? What do we. What do I not know? We don't. We've only had gotten to speak so many times. I want to crack inside the mind of Jamie Pushbutton here.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Okay.

[Colin]

Tell me about you. What were you like, causing ruckuses? Ruck eye.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yeah. I mean, without going down a super rabbit hole. I mean, I was. I'm an only child. I kind of grew up without. I grew up without my dad. So I was just, you know, tormenting my mom and looking for any trouble I could get into.

[Colin]

Yeah, sure.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

And you know, without pointing the finger at him, I mean, Bruce was like the perfect lightning rod for that. You know what I mean? Like he was looking for trouble, you know, especially once we get into. Into playing music, going to shows, you know, crazy dancing, all that kind of stuff, you know, you realize there's an outlet for that.

[Colin]

Absolutely.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Anger and stuff. But as far as what happened in between, you know, Bloodbath and Push Button, then on to like, you know, I guess bands that I'm better known for being in.

[Colin]

Sure. But one of them is your non government last name. So I figured, you know, we got to let people know.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yeah, yeah. Again, I think Bruce kind of discussed the transition from Bloodbath to Push Button. And there was a couple different eras of Push Button as you, I'm sure.

[Colin]

You know, he comes back and he's in Push Button again.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yeah, yeah.

[Colin]

It's a lot.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

But by the time Push Button was over, I mean, everyone else was going on to other things.

[Colin]

Sure.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

So to speak. Push Button played with kind of towards the end of our existence, we played with Hate Reed a few times and of course we knew Jamie.

[Colin]

So who's playing drums in Hatebreed at this time?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

I think Dave Russo was playing right before me.

[Colin]

And are you saying you got to get this guy out here? I got it. You got to put me in. Or. Or is. Or is Jasta going? Jamie.

[Beau]

Jamie.

[Colin]

Or he's going. He's talking to Bruce, being like, what's your drummer's name?

[Beau]

Is it Yammy or Yami.

[Colin]

Yami. Oh, it's my name.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

My name.

[Colin]

So is he poaching you or are you like, hey, man, I'm available?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

No, they approached me.

[Colin]

Okay.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

And we knew each other.

[Colin]

So Dave is on under the Knife.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yep.

[Colin]

Okay.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Dave is on under the Knife. I don't know. They might have had someone in between, you know, I mean, Akrid went through a lot of troubles.

[Colin]

I've heard of the guys. They tried out after you, and what a disaster it was.

[Beau]

When would that have been?

[Colin]

Pre. Perseverance. Like, right before recording. Perseverance. Sean has told me many tales of drummers who couldn't do gadda do get do gadda do ga. Couldn't do the 16th, where, like, these insane metal guys who would only go to snare first, and Sean, not a drummer would be. Would be on the kit showing them.

[Beau]

Wow. Pretty cool.

[Colin]

So you were tough to replace.

[Beau]

You ever mess around with, like, a metal guitar player who can't strum? Yeah, it's that.

[Colin]

They're masturbators.

[Beau]

It's that. Yeah, they're masturbators. Yeah.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Anyway, now that I think about it, I think actually Nick Nickel P. If you know that name.

[Colin]

Yes.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

He was the drummer directly before me.

[Colin]

Okay.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

But I. He went another direction.

[Colin]

What else? Yeah, what else was he in?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

I don't. I don't know what else he was in. Probably another local Connecticut band before that.

[Beau]

But Nickel P. So did you. They approached you and you joined Hate Breed.

[Colin]

Is Haybrid first or is Death Threat first?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Hate.

[Colin]

Okay.

[Beau]

Okay, this is fascinating. So I just got done a few months ago with a. Over a month with Hate Breed, and I'm on a real Hate Breed kick.

[Colin]

Sure.

[Beau]

Probably for the next 30, 40 years. And I would love, like, when. When they approach you are. I. Obviously there are songs that had already been recorded and written or whatever that wound up on Satisfaction. But. Are you writing together?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yes. I didn't have any part of writing any of the stuff on under the Knife.

[Beau]

Sure.

[Colin]

Right. Yeah.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

That was like, already. That was their set, pretty much that. And like the few random comp songs, you know, I conceived and so Severed and Stuffed.

[Beau]

Yeah. Was Empty Promises. Like, that was you like Kicky kicks.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

So we wrote most. A lot of the, like, kind of broad strokes ideas for Satisfaction we wrote on a tour that Hapey did with Despair Like a summer tour.

[Beau]

Wow.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Like at random places, you know, we'd crash at people's houses and set up our gear. And you know, Jamie had a lot of the, probably most of the preliminary ideas.

[Colin]

Sure.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

For, for those songs.

[Colin]

So you guys would pre show, just be writing Satisfaction every night.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yeah. And then when we got back from that tour, we like actually spent some time.

[Beau]

What was that idea?

[Colin]

So you, so they approach you. Is it instantaneous? Yes. Or is it because Bruce has told me, Sorry, Bruce, you told him? I can't be in Push Button and Hate Breed. And eventually you were in Hate Breed and Death Threat. And Bruce is like, it broke my heart, but I get it. I mean, did you say that he did? Yeah. So how, how. What's that process? Like how mad is Bruce are you at the time? And what was the process like of just, okay, I'm in Hipory now.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Well, Push Button was, was kind of winding down.

[Colin]

Sure.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Like we were all going different directions start, you know, starting other bands.

[Colin]

Right.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Or I guess wanting to start other bands. And you know, I hate to bring this up, but you have to understand that like this is all against, at least in Bruce and I's case, not the other Push Button guys or Hate Breed guys or really anybody at that point. It's against the backdrop of getting really heavy into drugs. So not taking dance super serious. Like it's something we love and love doing and it's all our friends and our. Like it's what we've been doing.

[Colin]

Sure.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

But not thinking about it like a business or what's the right move. Or at least I wasn't.

[Colin]

I'm playing music and I'm gonna have some drugs. That's the perfect life. That's what I'm saying.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

So maybe some of the decisions weren't as like linear as I got.

[Colin]

You.

[Beau]

Sure.

[Colin]

That makes perfect sense.

[Beau]

Yeah, that makes total sense.

[Colin]

So hey Breed, you're you. You get approached. Jamie approaches you. Jamie.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

So actually now that we're talking again, kind of come back to me. So I went to. I don't think it was with Bruce, but I went to a rave at this place, Pearl street in Northampton to sell drugs.

[Beau]

You ever been there?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Pearl street with. They still got Drug with the original singer for Push Button, Justin.

[Colin]

Okay.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

And Aaron and Boulder were there and we were playing them the self titled Push Button CD before it had like this was before it had come out. And that was kind of my first time really like meeting Boulder and stuff.

[Colin]

Right. Intense guy from what I hear.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yeah.

[Colin]

Never got to meet him.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Definitely. Maybe kind of reach Energy.

[Colin]

Oh, 100. Interesting reach. Drummer for 100 Demons. Intense guy.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

But in. In the case of both joining Hate Breed and Death Threat, or we're kind of forming Death Threat.

[Colin]

Right.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Boulder was pretty instrumental. He really asked me. He was like, this is what we're doing.

[Colin]

Okay. Yes, sir.

[Beau]

That sounds great.

[Colin]

Okay. All right. That makes a lot more sense.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

I think that, that, that, that rave, that hanging out, like he checked off some push button stuff. And I think the next time that they were kind of like looking for a drummer or looking to firm up, you know, the Hate Breed lineup.

[Colin]

Sure.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

That. That's kind of why I got the nod.

[Colin]

So you got both calls, the Death Threat call and the Hate period call. Because of. Because of that?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yeah. Wow.

[Colin]

This is.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

And just from talking drugs.

[Colin]

This is drugs to me.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Just from knowing each other, like totally.

[Colin]

From before shows and being around the.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Way in the next state.

[Colin]

Yeah.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yeah.

[Colin]

Okay, so your first task is a couple tours with Haybreed.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yeah. Well, really one big one.

[Colin]

Okay.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

And then one whole bunch of weekends.

[Colin]

And then all around the East Coast.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yep.

[Colin]

And what was the. What was the attitude? This is crazy. This is insane. So you're going into Satisfaction. That is with Steve Evans.

[Beau]

Yep, that's right.

[Colin]

Friend of the show, Steve Evans. What. What's your mindset going into that?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

What's.

[Colin]

What is your thought? What are your thoughts on just the songs in general? Do you, like, finish this record, hear it and think, this is really good?

[Beau]

Yeah.

[Colin]

Or are you like, okay, I'm gonna ready record my songs and then I'm gonna sell some drugs?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Well, probably more use some drugs.

[Colin]

Use. Are you doing both? Are you recording drums and using drugs same day?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Definitely.

[Colin]

That's fucking awesome.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

The. The one thing that, like, from a drummer's perspective, that I don't love about Satisfaction. It'd probably be a totally different record if I used a china, but I had sold my china. Or guess what?

[Beau]

That was a dagger. That was a dagger to his.

[Colin]

Jamie, I'm going to tell you something. Whenever. Whenever not if time machine technology is invented. I'm going back and I'm handing you a crisp 18 inch Zildjian China. As the ghost of.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

You think it would have been a kind of a different Christmas China.

[Colin]

I've seen you use a china. I know. I've seen a dipity. You know, I know that one. I love that one. I've taken that one. So I now need to hear Satisfaction, Jamie's China version.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

But musically, that's my only regret about.

[Colin]

Okay. That's a fair regret because I would have never picked that out.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

And I was using the shit out of a china and push button and even bloodbath.

[Beau]

Like, wow, interesting.

[Colin]

But I'll tell you what. I don't know that if I've ever noticed that there's no china, I almost.

[Beau]

Would have sworn there was.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

But to answer your question, as far as recording that, as far as like, you know, selling off parts of the drum kit before recording, you know, what was definitely my biggest.

[Colin]

So is Josta going, where's the china? No, he doesn't notice.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

No, he didn't.

[Colin]

Which. That shocks me because he's a detail oriented guy.

[Beau]

Right, right.

[Colin]

Or does he know, like, I'm not?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

I mean, he has a big hand and you know everything. It always has. So I'm sure that was kind of a minor detail. Sure.

[Beau]

Everything else going on. Yeah, the. The rollout of Satisfaction.

[Colin]

Let's just walk through the track.

[Beau]

Well, so I'm gonna bring it back with Empty Promise, please. What I was asking before is the idea to do second that as a fill.

[Colin]

Foot only.

[Beau]

Yeah, foot only. Yeah.

[Colin]

I don't know that I've heard a guy do that before you.

[Beau]

But here's what's so. Here's what's so cool. And the reason I bring it up is watching you play. Play. And watching how you. You did certain fills. Yesterday was the same kind of, I don't know drum language very much, but the same kind of style as that fill the nuance of that intro. I mean a band covered that today. Earlier today the band played that. Sorry, I forget who.

[Colin]

Nothing but enemies from Scotland.

[Beau]

Oh, wow, that's lovely.

[Colin]

So it's.

[Beau]

I'm fascinated. I love knowing these little details. Was that being an intro fill to start this record? Was that your. What if I did this?

[Colin]

Or is it just. Hey, can we. Let's. I need something there?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Well, kind of the dynamic that Jamie and I had with. Cause, you know, hate breed practices. That's a whole thing. In the 90s, first of all, I would drive from Springfield to wherever we were practicing, which is always kind of a.

[Colin]

How many days a week.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

The point I was getting to is like this is before, you know, phones and GPS and everything. Like I would drive there and they'd just not be there. Fucking drive home. And then, you know, a message on my landline and, you know, that kind of stuff.

[Colin]

Sure.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

So practices were pretty fragmented.

[Colin]

Sure.

[Beau]

Okay.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

And sometimes it would be three of us. Sometimes it would be. You know, I remember distinctly hammering through some of the songs that would end up being unsatisfaction. We're just Jamie and I trying to work out like basic structure. Yeah, you'd just be strumming some real basic stuff. So to answer your question, Bo, it was usually more of an idea like you know, just do a fill here. Fill this space with.

[Beau]

So that's your brain saying. That's. What's the Michael Jackson thing.

[Colin]

Oh the. Yeah, the Quincy telling the dude on off the wall, hey, I need you to do an iconic drum fill that will. People will remember forever. You have one take and he's okay. Empty Promises is your.

[Beau]

That's your.

[Colin]

Is your rock with you?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

That's just really me trying to like match what the guitar's doing.

[Colin]

Okay.

[Beau]

Yeah, of course it makes sense with the riff. But I. I wouldn't think. Yeah, I wouldn't think to do that. It's just an interest. I love knowing Little Wild Man.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Well that's. I guess the double, double edged sword of being self taught is true. You don't think in a certain paradigm.

[Beau]

So true.

[Colin]

Yesterday I'm helping you set up your.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Cymbals and I forget my first drum tech ever. That's right, by the way.

[Colin]

And I forget I've known you don't use a ride. But I forget that and I pick up the biggest crash in there and say ride. And you said I don't use a ride. His Ride is a 16 inch medium crash which is like. That's one of. I play like a freak, my hi head is on the floor. But it's all. And that's because I'd only ever seen my drum my brother play. I'd never been taught by anybody. And it's a. It's a norm. It's a New England thing, I think there's you.

[Beau]

You ride that small crash though.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

The big crash, I read.

[Beau]

Oh, I'm sorry.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Big crash.

[Beau]

Yeah, but you use it. Right, but it's.

[Colin]

You ever use a ride?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Definitely. Like on push button stuff. Yeah, definitely.

[Colin]

You just don't like it for Death Threat. No, I'll get you right.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Decent security. I used a ride.

[Colin]

You did. It's all over that thing. We needed to get it done to get the Dan.

[Beau]

We need to take Lars's china away from him as his ride.

[Colin]

Right.

[Beau]

Give you that chance in back in time.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

It's.

[Beau]

We got a whole plan.

[Colin]

I'm gonna get you.

[Beau]

We're gonna go in the future.

[Colin]

Symbols. You're gonna love it. Old. I'm gonna go back. You're not gonna believe it. You're gonna look at me now. You're like. You're the guy that gave me the crash on Satisfaction. Unbelievable. All right, let's go down the track list.

[Beau]

Yeah.

[Colin]

Let's just get.

[Beau]

This Is Fun.

[Colin]

Burn the Lies, track two. Any distinct memories of writing that song?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Well, that would be a situation. I think. The little Phil at the beginning.

[Colin]

Oh, God.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

That was specifically like, Jamie, you know, do this. Exactly.

[Colin]

We rock with you.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Whereas a lot of other stuff was like, just, you know, kind of fill this. Aha.

[Beau]

Cool. Very cool.

[Colin]

This is unbelievable.

[Beau]

It's good.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

I like this going a lot of the. I mean, definitely like the. The Hate Breed stuff that they already had when I joined.

[Colin]

Yeah.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Versus the Satisfaction stuff.

[Colin]

Sure.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

I mean, you've probably listened to it enough to know. But, like, a lot of the Satisfaction stuff was kind of a different style for me. Like, especially the breakdowns.

[Colin]

Yeah.

[Beau]

Yeah.

[Colin]

It's a different style in general, right?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yeah.

[Colin]

Like, it's not. And it defined. That started and defined modern hardcore.

[Beau]

New sub genre.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

But compared to, like, my style that came out, I guess, in push button. Sure. It was. It was much different.

[Colin]

You know, you had to. You had. You were reinventing yourself on record as a drummer.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

You could say that.

[Beau]

Yeah.

[Colin]

Which is wild. Vernalize is next. Before Dishonor. Next.

[Beau]

Which is the sample still gone off.

[Colin]

Sample's off. Sample's gone. We'll never hear it again. I've got it. But that's different.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

And I. You know, I think the challenge with all the songs that already existed before I joined was making them.

[Colin]

Making them yours?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yeah, making them. I mean, kind of similar to what's happening with Death Threat, because I'm playing, like, songs that were written after totally. I was gone. And songs from the beginning.

[Colin]

Right.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Try to make him sound somewhat cohesive, especially live.

[Beau]

Interesting pur. Still honoring, obviously, what had already been done.

[Colin]

Puritan is one of the most covered hardcore songs I've probably.

[Beau]

We're just going to skip before Dishonor. Oh. Oh, okay.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

In the most blatant absence of a china, think of that crash.

[Beau]

Oh, wow. And Matt. Matt uses a china. I'll tell you why.

[Colin]

Oh, yeah, he does. Is your. Is your crash a little broken? Unsatisfaction, maybe. So that's why.

[Beau]

See that?

[Colin]

I've never thought. That can't be a try. I've thought it was maybe a broken china or.

[Beau]

Yeah.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

I wish I could tell you I had a sonic master plan for, like, anything that I've played on.

[Colin]

You went in to play some drums and then with whatever I had available.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Or hadn't sold or.

[Colin]

Okay, tell me about the snare. Is it the same snare on Satisfaction and Peace and Security?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yes.

[Beau]

Wow. Now that is amazing.

[Colin]

It's good.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Superphonic.

[Colin]

The superphonic. And you don't use it live because it doesn't crack enough.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Correct.

[Colin]

It's. You're a pork pie man. Live.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

I am.

[Colin]

And that cracked last night. Tell you what. Anyway. Conceived through an act of violence. What can you tell me about putting the song together?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

It's a. Well, that was already written 100 times.

[Beau]

Okay.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

But one of my favorite songs to play.

[Colin]

100% for sure. Yeah.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

And I think I kind of. It depends on which older recording you listen to, I guess. But like the. Before the second breakdown, the double bass and stuff, like, I. I kind of. I think I kind of added that or changed a little from. From how it was like on the Integrity Split.

[Colin]

Sure. Afflicted past on this one.

[Beau]

I don't know off the top of my head.

[Colin]

Change your afflicted path.

[Beau]

Oh, of course.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Pretty much all fast. And then there's a breakdown at the end. Yeah.

[Colin]

Prepare for war. What do you got for me?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

That was an old. That's an old song. Yeah.

[Colin]

Not one Truth. The first tape read song, Right?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yeah.

[Beau]

Yeah. That's my personal favorite, which I know obviously was written.

[Colin]

Him telling us that he got the entire bridge line from just the title of a painting was insane. The whole thing.

[Beau]

Not what you would expect.

[Colin]

He was like, I saw this painting and took the whole thing. Pretty cool. Betrayed my life. This is. Maybe. This has got to be a top three muckin hopped performance because we got the catch.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

I don't. I don't love that song.

[Colin]

Come on, man. What do you mean? Chad and Kent, you're telling me you don't love that? What do you mean?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Just the. I mean, there's just not much complexity to it.

[Beau]

Interesting. When I.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

That's.

[Colin]

That's one of the most complex. That's one. A drummer, a young drummer hears that and goes. Well, I gotta learn that. I got.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

I just. I guess I just meant like strong song structure wise.

[Colin]

But it's a drum track, which is awesome.

[Beau]

The. When you do the cymbal catch, I remember it, like breaking my brain. Because it's. It's just a cool accent. It's a cool place to put it. Was that you was a you?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yeah.

[Beau]

Yeah, yeah.

[Colin]

This is awesome.

[Beau]

Yeah, it was.

[Colin]

I'm having a great time.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

I know it's. I know it's, I guess, kind of common. Knowledge around the scene nowadays that. That, you know, Jamie's like pretty much pretty very hands on with everything to do with hate. But back then, I mean it. It was. He definitely was very involved in everything. It was kind of his. His baby from the beginning. But he gave me a pretty good amount of. Kind of latitude as the drummer.

[Colin]

Yeah. There's only so much you can coach, you know. To a certain extent it's like why you asked me to play drums. I gotta play my drums, you know. Makes sense. Mark my words. My God, tell me again 1 I'm.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Not soup as connected to, I guess because it was already a Hate Breed song.

[Colin]

Okay. So the major. How many of these were. Were. Can you like Last Breath. That didn't exist until Satisfaction.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Right, right. Like Last Breath portrayed by life.

[Colin]

Right. Barrel for the Living was on the split. So you didn't. But you didn't. Satisfaction is your first hate read recording.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yep.

[Colin]

And then your only hate period recording.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yep.

[Colin]

Wow. God damn.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

I was in the band for about two years, but that was the only thing. It was just a timing thing.

[Beau]

Oh, okay. Okay.

[Colin]

Barrier for the Living we just talked about Worlds Apart. Worlds Apart Driven by suffering as 13 and 14 pretty unbelievable final rock block.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

That was. Yeah, that was. That was kind of different. I mean that was a different style for Hate Breed at the time too.

[Colin]

Big time.

[Beau]

Driven by suffering. They still play and that the. When the Breakdown hits live, it's. It's better than recorded in my opinion because it's. They play the fast part so fast and then the breakdown and the breakdown is like.

[Colin]

But the thing that the. The. And maybe this is like. Because it's not a modern hardcore drummer perspective on it. The.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

That's.

[Colin]

That's like hip hop shit.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Colin]

Is that where you're pulling from?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

I think so. I mean, I like the. The thing that I love playing about drums and I mean back then and now is just. I mean getting people to hit each other, getting people to nod their head. Like that's what it's about. And you gotta have like a pocket to do that. You know what I mean?

[Colin]

Who were your guys, drum wise, that you. That inspired you?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Just in general or hardcore or mostly hardcore?

[Colin]

Because that's like. I'm just. I'm interested in the. The genealogy of what you're doing because.

[Beau]

You'Re a guy who changed a lot with what you did.

[Colin]

Totally. So it's kind of one record redefined this whole thing that we're doing. So before.

[Beau]

Right.

[Colin]

Anybody's going, dad and Good, good. Good, good. How do we get there?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Well, as far as people that I looked up to, I don't know that I really. You can really hear a connection and I guess what my style became. But Mackie number one, first and foremost.

[Beau]

Like, you know, the tallest drum, tallest.

[Colin]

Guy he's standing up, tallest thrown, highest throw.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

But the amount of sauce that he had on things in the pocket.

[Beau]

A sauceman for sure.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

And especially with faster parts, like, they're really, you know, super, super key.

[Colin]

A lot of.

[Beau]

And like a lot of 16s.

[Colin]

Oh, and that's once you stop them. 16s. Yeah.

[Beau]

Very important.

[Colin]

He could have done that there.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Should have done that. Alan Cage was like, huge for me when I got into hardcore Quicksand beyond, you know, just taking fast stuff but making it something totally different.

[Colin]

Interesting.

[Beau]

I've been re. Going through a lot of older bands that I hadn't checked out in a minute and I. I recently got back into beyond and I. The musicianship on Beyond Everything is a lot of melody. A lot of melody.

[Colin]

A lot more melody than I expected from you. Yeah, you a melody man.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

What. What's weird is like, especially during. During like Push Button and. And joining Hate Breed was. I was super into metal. I mean, Bolt thrower.

[Beau]

Yeah.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Listening to stuff like that.

[Colin]

You can hear that all over that.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yeah.

[Beau]

Did you have a connection with Jamie with that?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, when we. Especially when we went on that first tour with the Spare, I was relatively new to the band and it was kind of like, you know, what are you into? Pass the controller around to who's going to listen to what? So we were. We were listening.

[Colin]

Do you have a binder full of tapes and CDs or something?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Tapes.

[Colin]

Nice.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

At the time. Yeah.

[Colin]

Yeah. So everybody brought their tapes from home.

[Beau]

I've never even thought about that. Isn't that funny? Wow.

[Colin]

So you're like, I got War Master. Put it in. And Jamie's like, I got War Master. Don't worry, it's up here. I'm already in.

[Beau]

It's already in.

[Colin]

It's already in. That is really interesting.

[Beau]

It's really cool.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

But I was. Yeah, I was big into metal. Lombardo, obviously, he's.

[Beau]

He's the guy.

[Colin]

He's the king.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

And I think. I think, like, as far as playing fast parts, which. Every band I've been in has a ton of fast, faster stuff, Lombardo would be like, huge.

[Colin]

He's. He's the. The gold standard. His right hand with the ride.

[Beau]

Yeah.

[Colin]

It was like what we all. Big Ride guy telling You. You gotta get one. You're gonna love it. I'm gonna get you. Right?

[Beau]

Big ride guy. But also, the way he plays a fastbeat has. What am I trying to say? It's drummer stuff. He, He. He plays it more punk than just a metal guy.

[Colin]

100% misfits minded.

[Beau]

Yeah.

[Colin]

In the way that he's just going.

[Beau]

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[Colin]

Which is great.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

But when I was. When I was, like, learning the drums, I would say Mackie all the way through.

[Beau]

Yeah.

[Colin]

You're a big benante guy, right, Charlie? Benante. Yeah. Yeah. Sod.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Sod. Just, I think, because they were even so much faster than, like, Anthrax.

[Colin]

Totally.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yeah. I wasn't so much into Anthrax.

[Colin]

Gotcha.

[Beau]

Yeah.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Now, I. I mean, now I appreciate him at the time.

[Beau]

You know, there's a rumor that he played on Master Puppets. Lars didn't. It's a rumor.

[Colin]

It's a crazy rumor.

[Beau]

I don't believe it.

[Colin]

You could probably get that cleared up for us.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yeah, I'll talk to my. My source.

[Colin]

Charlie, let us know if you're watching, would you?

[Beau]

So, so you, You. You record it. It's out.

[Colin]

Tell me, tell me about just, like, the initial reaction.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yeah.

[Colin]

Right.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yeah.

[Beau]

Great.

[Colin]

The reaction. Hearing it mastered for the first time.

[Beau]

Yeah.

[Colin]

The band hearing it collectively.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

I remember playing it for Bruce before it came out. Like, we had, you know, kind of a scratch copy from the studio.

[Beau]

That's a cool bit of lore, right?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

I don't think. I really. I mean, I thought it was. I thought it was good, but it's.

[Colin]

Your band, so you're like. I mean, I don't know.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yeah. Your. Your. Your perspective might be a little off with your own band, but he's like, jesus Christ. You know, at the time, I think.

[Colin]

It'S still his favorite. It's Sean Martin's favorite.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Is it?

[Colin]

Yeah. And he played on the most of the other ones, so good job. So your thoughts are. This is pretty good. Oh, people seem to like it. Tell me about the day it comes out.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

You have to understand, like, there were definitely some songs on Satisfaction that I think were broadening the sound of Hate Breed from what it had been.

[Beau]

Yeah.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

So there was a. Definitely an element of, like. I don't know. Well, you probably heard Jamie talk about how Boulder was like, I don't know about this part. Or I don't. You know.

[Colin]

Totally. And that never stopped, you know?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yeah.

[Colin]

Like that. That. I'm sure that is. That conversation is still happening in Habrid today, so I will be heard. Was the same where he was like, trust me. And then, you know.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yeah. So I think there was a little, like, element of. I don't.

[Colin]

I don't.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Are we doing. Are we getting too weird?

[Beau]

Wow. You know, that's fast.

[Colin]

And you would within, like, out of context of being in Hate Breed. You would never look at that now. Yeah.

[Beau]

You'd be like, no, that's the DNA of what we're listening to. Wow. How interesting. How was.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

You know, it's a context thing going on at the time.

[Colin]

How do you look back at it? Fondly.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yeah, definitely.

[Colin]

Other than the china.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Other than the china.

[Colin]

That was the. It was.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

It was really fast. I mean, it was. The writing of songs was really fast. Recording. It was really fast.

[Beau]

How long do you remember?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

I think it was like nine days of recording.

[Colin]

Like, total.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yeah.

[Beau]

Nine days to just.

[Colin]

Same as the world.

[Beau]

That's great.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

I mean, my. My part was. As I mentioned, I moved into all kinds of other at the time, but, you know, I just went there for the drums. That was it.

[Colin]

Sure.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

I wasn't sitting in the studio. Everything else was going on.

[Colin]

Oh, you. You didn't. You weren't there for the rest of it.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

No.

[Colin]

Okay. You clocked in and clocked out.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

That was around. Around the time that my son was born.

[Colin]

Okay.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

So I wasn't, you know, I couldn't hang out in New Jersey for a week.

[Colin]

Right. Yeah.

[Beau]

You're busy.

[Colin]

What was working with Steve like at that time?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

It was great. That was by far the, like, most legit studio experience I had had at that time. Because every other band I had been in that had recorded up to then was, you know, like, Zeus recorded us on an A track, which is cutting edge technology.

[Beau]

Yeah.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

But, you know, just, I mean, being able to hear yourself and hear all the imperfections.

[Colin]

I can't believe it. Yeah. Wow.

[Beau]

What was the record release like?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Madness. So as far as you were asking about how it was received.

[Colin]

Yeah.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

You know, obviously back then, stuff didn't circulate as quickly.

[Colin]

Sure.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

So when we would play anywhere outside of Connecticut, you know, it took a while for people to, I guess, get to know the songs.

[Colin]

Sure.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

But in Connecticut, you know, that stuff had been leaked to friends and, you know, give it to the grippos, you know, people knew the words.

[Colin]

You got to get to the cripples.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

So. Yeah, it was really. It was really well received in Connecticut, obviously.

[Colin]

Obviously.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Hometown Boys.

[Colin]

Yeah, 100%. Can you tell us about the record release? Yeah.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

I mean, it's faded.

[Beau]

Push button.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

I did a double duty really?

[Colin]

So you did it?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yeah.

[Colin]

Was that like.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

That was like one of maybe the second to last push button show.

[Colin]

Were you. Was that planned, like, okay, we're winding down? Because I'm. I'm doing it.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

It wasn't planned, but it was kind of going on. I mean, it was headed that way.

[Beau]

Gotcha.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

And. And you know, Hate Breed was kind of picking up momentum as that was winding down and it's just so.

[Beau]

It just.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Again, not intentional, but yeah.

[Beau]

Yeah.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Just how it worked out.

[Beau]

Writing's on the wall.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yeah. But yeah, that was a double duty show I. I can't really tell you much about. I mean, it ended in a giant riot.

[Colin]

Yeah.

[Beau]

That's all we've heard a lot of shows did.

[Colin]

Everybody says, can't tell you much about it, trust me. But yeah, big riot.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Well, I mean, you know how stuff goes. Of course, you don't necessarily know what started it. And then what was a retaliation to what and stuff like that.

[Colin]

I mean, it was during the Hate Breed set that it started.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yes.

[Colin]

Remember what song?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

I don't.

[Beau]

Know.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Blow Ups leading up to that at shows. I mean, we were kind of waging war on any venue that tried to control how you dance, which.

[Colin]

That was what he told us. The whole ethos of Hate Breed was that him and the boys couldn't mosh for fugazi.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yeah.

[Colin]

So they started April.

[Beau]

That's the coolest thing ever.

[Colin]

Pardon this interruption, please. But trust me, it's so important because your life is falling apart, your body's falling apart, and AG1 is the only thing that can help you at this point.

[Beau]

Do you just come up with that, like off the top of your head?

[Colin]

Yeah. If I stop now, it's gonna leave forever.

[Beau]

Sorry, Go for it.

[Colin]

You know what else will leave forever is your health if you don't take care of your body. But why don't you start every morning with a scoop of this nice little green powder? 16 ounces even 12 is fine cold water. You shake it up, you suck it down. You know, you're gonna have a better day. You're gonna may feel more energized than if you had a cup of coffee.

[Beau]

Let me ask you, can you do that on an empty stomach, Kyle?

[Colin]

100%. You should.

[Beau]

Really?

[Colin]

Yeah, man. It's the best way to start our day. We do it every day. We feel that it is providing us the proper nutrients that we've been missing our entire lives as. As touring musicians, as traveling guys.

[Beau]

And let me ask you, where can I order this?

[Colin]

You can go to drink ag1.com hardlore that's right. New year, new URL.

[Beau]

And what?

[Colin]

Try it now, please.

[Beau]

What do I get if I use that link in particular?

[Colin]

You get five free travel packs, a year's supply of vitamin D and K, and you're gonna have to check for yourself. Cause I'm hearing there's some new goodies for you on there.

[Beau]

Wow.

[Colin]

So please go to drinkag1.com hardlore we love working with them. We love drinking what they got. Our bodies are green on the inside. It's beautiful. Metaphorically speaking. Don't sue us. This episode is also brought to you by Manscaped. Manscaped Baby. Two years running. This is a manscape show.

[Beau]

Straight up.

[Colin]

We smell so good. Even right now, we're in the private privacy of our own homes. Balls are emanating. Floral goodness. Floral balls is what it's all about.

[Beau]

Don't know how to respond to that. There's a myriad of Manscape products that I use every single day from the Body Scrubber, which is, I decided, is my actual favorite. Exfoliates. Feels good. Makes me feel clean. Made out of silicone.

[Colin]

And you pair that with the body wash. You pair that with the crop cleanser. You're clean in ways never before imaginable. Imagine going back time and giving Ben Franklin's nasty ass the manscaped box.

[Beau]

You know, watch out for the syphilis. Hook him up with a lawnmower.

[Colin]

Wash your balls. He would have lived forever. And who. Who knows how many more presidential terms.

[Beau]

He would have lived to serve?

[Colin]

You know, it's unbelievable. And you could too. Could be just like Man Franklin if we went back. If you go to manscape.com/shirtscaped.com and use code hard lore, you're gonna get 20% off and free shipping.

[Beau]

Men Franklin. Dude.

[Colin]

More like Manscaped Franklin, straight up. This episode is also brought to you by Mad Vintage.

[Beau]

You guys, listen. This is fucking serious. Colin and I don't have room. You have to go to Mad Vintage and start buying your.

[Colin]

And we're going to work with him as long as he wants to. And. And God willing, we've got one closet each.

[Beau]

We're sick in the heads. Mutually. And listen, I know you don't have room in your place either. You know what he's doing? He's buying stuff. Get in contact with Mad Vintage M A D D Vintage on Instagram or.

[Colin]

He'S going to give you a fair price for that old shirt you don't want anymore. And then I'm going to buy it from him. Mo's going to buy, et cetera. It's gonna be great. If you watch the show regularly, you know what we're all about, you know what we listen to. He's got it for you.

[Beau]

Straight up.

[Colin]

Okay.

[Beau]

Yep.

[Colin]

100% hardcore metal, punk movies, hip hop, everything in between. Check it out. You're gonna see something you've been looking for your entire life on there, and you're gonna want 15% off, trust me. Cause it's probably expensive. So use code HARDLORE15 right now. I'll wait. Back to the episode. So you. You hit the road pretty hard on Satisfaction. You personally?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

No, I never really toured on Satisfaction. We played just before it, like, physically came out. And shortly after it physically came out, we did a bunch of shows, you know, I guess you'd say locally, but just northeast.

[Colin]

Right.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

But I never. I never went on a tour for Satisfaction, so to speak.

[Colin]

And why is that?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Well, because I quit.

[Colin]

You. I just.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

I. Not formally. I did. I just like, ditched him.

[Colin]

Really?

[Beau]

Oh, really?

[Colin]

Can you.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

We got offered a tour, I think it was when Entombed.

[Colin]

I would imagine you'd be fired up about that. Was that just too much?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Well, I was. I was strung out.

[Colin]

Yeah.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

I couldn't even think about, you know, I mean, you can't. You can't go far from. Too far from where you can get drugs.

[Colin]

Okay.

[Beau]

Sure.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Basically. And so I just kind of like quit answering the phone.

[Colin]

Just straight up.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yeah. And I'm pretty sure Boulder wanted to kill me.

[Colin]

That tracks a reach, like person.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Because they finally found, like. I mean, you know, all the bullshit I was doing at the time aside, I was. You know, I'd make it to practice, I'd make it to shows.

[Colin]

Sure.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Maybe I wouldn't have my china or I would sold something, but.

[Colin]

You got that snare.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yeah.

[Colin]

That's impressive. You still got that.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yeah, I do.

[Colin]

So excellent work. You're gonna have a ride into China very soon, courtesy of me. So I didn't.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

I didn't get to. I guess you'd say, like, really enjoy.

[Colin]

The spoils of your.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yeah.

[Colin]

Of your work.

[Beau]

Sure.

[Colin]

Wow. We.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

But we played. I mean, played some great shows.

[Colin]

Yeah.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Immediately after it came out, or, you know, as it was coming out, you.

[Colin]

Know, I would love to see that. We can make that happen. There's a couple songs, you know. Is that too much to ask? Jamie.

[Beau]

Matt.

[Colin]

Matt. Matt. I know he would love to see it too. Sean.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

I've only met Matt once.

[Colin]

Really Very nice guy.

[Beau]

Great guy.

[Colin]

Very nice guy.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

I've heard that.

[Beau]

Yeah.

[Colin]

So Sean. Did Sean join the band while you were still in it?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

No, after.

[Beau]

Okay.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

I knew Sean from. SEAN was in 100 DE. Hundred demons at the time.

[Colin]

Higher Force.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Higher Force.

[Colin]

Right.

[Beau]

And so Hundred Demons had already been existing. I don't know the timelines all that well. I didn't realize Hundred Demons had already been existing.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yeah. 100 demons joined or formed shortly.

[Colin]

Higher Force kind of evolved into 100.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

And that was right around the time that Death Threat got like, formally got together.

[Beau]

Just. Just. It's. It's the. The ever. It's giving meme of the Father, son, Holy Spirit.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Incestuous.

[Colin]

100 and I. You know, growing up, like, I. I hear about this firsthand. The Grippos. I'm sure you've heard the story at some point, but, like, they. They inadvertently got Taylor and I into hardcore by just leaving because they went to high school. Their older brother just left tapes and. And CDs around. So the first things we hear are Western Mass stuff. Grimlock and. And the Holy Trinity Hunter Demons, Death Threat, Hate Breed, and like, I don't know any other bands. And turns out I barely need to. Which is nice, but just Connecticut. Is this weird?

[Beau]

Yeah.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

It.

[Beau]

You would never figure it.

[Colin]

Special place where just like the most violent music. And I. In Springfield, Mass.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Too.

[Colin]

I'm not gonna. I'm not leaving you out. I know you never lived there, but you're part of it, you know?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yeah.

[Colin]

You're part of the genealogy of the greater Connecticut and Springfield. Like, it's right there.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

It's. Yeah. I mean, it might as well be Connecticut as far as proximity.

[Colin]

Exactly. So you. You ghost Hate. I got shit to do. I'm busy. Death Threats right down the road, though, so.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

While I was still in Haybrid.

[Colin]

Right.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Because I quit both bands basically. I ghosted both bands basically at the same time. But Death Threats in my life.

[Colin]

Right.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yeah, but. But after I had joined Hate Breed, Aaron had had the idea for Death Threat since we first met him, or probably even before, like in 89, you know, his brother was drawing artwork for Death Threat before it was banned. But Boulder, once again, kind of approached me about being in Death Threat or forming Death Threat, like, kind of, you know, more formally.

[Colin]

So you're OG deathrip?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yeah. Okay.

[Colin]

OG Lineup is Aaron Boulder. Jamie.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Cj.

[Colin]

Cj. Wow.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yeah. Larry Dwyer, of course. So, yeah, we wrote the demo with really no plans to do anything else. We played on that for a while. Then we wrote Last Days. Eventually Peace and Security and that was kind of going on concurrently with me being a hate breed.

[Colin]

Right.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Which I don't think Jamie liked. As I could see, Death Threat picked up traction. I could see that it became like more of a. Less of a problem phenomenon.

[Colin]

Yeah. So you quit both bands, but you don't quit Death Threat for too long, apparently.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

No, I quit Death Threat for. Because when I quit both these bands.

[Colin]

Last Days was already recorded.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yep. And Peace and Security. Wow.

[Colin]

When Was that recorded?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

98.

[Colin]

So it didn't come out for two years.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Like a year and a half. It didn't come out.

[Colin]

Yeah, 2000. Wow. That's crazy.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

I wasn't even. I wasn't. So once I quit these bands, I moved to Colorado.

[Colin]

Okay.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

That's kind of the next.

[Colin]

That's Chap. That's Chapter Three.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

But I didn't play any release shows for Peace and Security. Like, I recorded it and I think we played a couple shows, like, as it was coming out or, you know, going to come out.

[Colin]

Right. And you've got this whole other life with drugs at the same time.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

I got a lot of lives, a.

[Colin]

Lot of lives with a lot of drugs.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

I mean, I have a life of just having had a child and, you know, I have a life of being a drug addict and a musician and, you know, good carpenter.

[Colin]

Hell of a carpenter.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

So, yeah, I obviously didn't do the best job juggling any of them at the time, but. But yeah, so I. I wasn't around for anything to do with Peace and Security. And honestly, that's a lot of the reason when I finally did move, when I got out of prison, finally moved back, that Aaron kind of put together the reunion shows with the original lineup.

[Colin]

Right.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Because he's like, I. I want you to be able to see what all the stuff that you were involved in meant to people.

[Colin]

And how. How did that feel yesterday? That was unbelievable.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

It felt incredible.

[Beau]

Yeah, it was really cool. The. The. Particularly like the Rock Block, the last three or four songs was like. I've probably seen Death Threat, I don't know, a couple. Couple dozen times. Yeah. A lot of times. I've never seen it like that. Not. Not like that at the end. That was amazing. Felt awesome. It made me very happy.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Well, I mean, those guys, I know that I played on the records, but those are the guys. Aaron.

[Beau]

Yeah.

[Colin]

The journeyman.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yeah. I mean, they're the ones who put in the work to have a reaction like that. I can't. I can't claim that, of course, but.

[Colin]

Like, I'm sure they. In a way are as. As maybe more excited than. Than we are to have the guy that wrote the songs with them.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yeah, it's great to be. I mean, like I said, I've known Aaron forever, almost as long as Bruce.

[Colin]

So can you tell me about. So peas and securities recording 98. You moved to Colorado. At what point do you go?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

So move to Colorado might be.

[Beau]

Ah, that's the euphemism.

[Colin]

I see.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

I see more of an escape to Colorado. I see because I, you know, without going into, sure, A ton of dirt. I mean, I had burned every bridge that I had.

[Colin]

Right.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

I was starting to burn bridges, you know, in the scene by. By bailing on. Bailing on tours, bailing on shows, just being unreliable.

[Colin]

Sure.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

And the girl I was dating at the time was like, you know, I'm done with this. I'm going to live with my parents in Colorado. And I didn't really have any options. So that's what. That's how I ended up in Colorado.

[Beau]

Gotcha.

[Colin]

So in Colorado, is that where you go to prison?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, I went there. I moved there on a couple days notice knowing no one with a drug habit, with the, you know, kind of faulty addict thinking, like, change geography and it'll take care of your problem.

[Beau]

Yeah, right.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Which of course, it didn't. I found dope immediately when I got there and escalated. Escalated. And within six months of being there, I'd been arrested twice.

[Colin]

Damn. You were gonna make it happen no matter what, huh?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yeah.

[Colin]

That's impressive.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Honestly. Well, if nothing else, I'm persistent.

[Colin]

Wow.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yeah. So I got two robbery charges in Colorado. Got sentenced to 20 years.

[Colin]

20 years?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yeah.

[Colin]

And obviously didn't end up having to serve 20 years.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

No, no. Fortunately, in Colorado, if you behave, you only have to serve half of your sentence. And then if you take part in certain programs, you can kind of work your sentence down.

[Colin]

Right.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

I'm not a knucklehead.

[Colin]

Were you a knucklehead?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

No, not at all.

[Colin]

That's right.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

I. I made a pretty conscious decision once I realized I could get out when I was, you know, 50. Sure.

[Beau]

Oh, sure.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

The age I am now.

[Beau]

Yeah.

[Colin]

You're looking damn good, let me tell you.

[Beau]

What thank you is, Is that when you got clean as well?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

I got clean pretty almost immediately after going to county jail. I had to, you know, before they send you to prison, you're going through all the court stuff and you have to be in county jail.

[Colin]

So how brutal is something like withdrawal in a county jail?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

It sucks. It's terrible. And that's why people like myself go to. That's why you go to the extremes of not having to experience withdrawal.

[Colin]

Sure.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Because it's fucking terrible. Sure. But for me, I mean, to kind of wrap it all up. And I know a lot of people wouldn't agree with this. In hindsight, for me, getting locked up, best thing to happen to me.

[Beau]

Force you to get clean. Force you to have a perspective on what you're doing.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Having said that, I wish I could have learned that with a two year sentence. But you don't. You don't. Unless you have that come to Jesus moment.

[Beau]

Sure. How long did you end up serving?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Seven years. Seven years in prison. And because I had a violent crime, I had to go to a halfway house for two years and I had to have an ankle monitor for two years. And I had to, you know, it's all kinds of progressive steps down to eventually freedom.

[Colin]

Sure. So what's your plan? Getting out?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

I didn't have one.

[Colin]

Okay.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Important note though, I mean, not to get too into the incarceration.

[Colin]

Oh, please, I would love that.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

And, and I don't want to, you know, create any controversy with bands I was in and stuff like that, but people like Bruce and Aaron, I didn't, I didn't talk to him all the time. They didn't send me money all the time, but they were there for me. We would, we would, we would talk when we could, we would write letters when we could. I never heard a thing from the guys in Hate Breed. Never. And in hindsight, we were bandmates, but we weren't friends.

[Beau]

Right.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

And whereas with the other guys, like there were friendships there and friendships that I'm very fortunate to still have today. So it's kind of a distinction for me.

[Beau]

Okay.

[Colin]

That makes a lot of sense.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yeah, of course, but.

[Colin]

And that makes things like yesterday make.

[Beau]

Even much more sense and mean that much more.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yeah, and I get it. I mean, I wouldn't fall anybody in any band for being like, you know, this guy just fucking bailed us.

[Colin]

Have you, have you spoken with, with the Haper guys since much at all?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yeah, a couple times. Well, I wasn't in Hate Breed with Sean at the same time, but.

[Colin]

But you were. You knew each other.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yep. And actually his wife helped us buy her house when we first moved back.

[Beau]

JESSICA Martin the best if you are.

[Colin]

In Connecticut or Massachusetts, I think even New York now. JESSICA MARTIN REALTOR Unbelievable.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

So shortly after I got out, there was a. I think it was like Sounds of the Underground tour or something came through Denver and I was actually able to, like, you know, go out without an ankle monitor.

[Beau]

How did that feel?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

And Shadows Fall was playing, so I wanted to go see Paul, who I hadn't seen in a million years. And of course, Hate Breed was playing, but I didn't have a way to really get in touch with them.

[Colin]

Right.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

So I went, I hung out with Paul and I found out where Hate Breed's bus was and I kind of came around the corner.

[Colin]

Did you surprise him?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yeah.

[Colin]

Holy shit.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

And I met, you know, Frank and Matt and bd, who obviously. And. Yeah. And I talked with Jamie for a little while, but, I mean, he kind of looked like he saw a ghost when I came around the corner of the bus, like. Oh.

[Colin]

Whereas, like. I mean, you know, they've grown. I'm sure I've since. Since then. As.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

So in prison, you could have MTV2 on your.

[Beau]

So you're seeing it.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yeah, so I'm seeing him host Headbangers Ball. I'm seeing the whole live for this Triple X thing blow up. Dudes are asking me about my tattoo because I've, you know, the. The tramp stamp.

[Colin]

Do they believe you?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Well, at first, before, like, before Jamie was on. I mean, before Hate Breed was like, you know, kind of a household name.

[Beau]

Yeah.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Guys would hit me up in prison, like, you know, is that a crew? What does that mean?

[Colin]

Like, it's a band. I swear to God. Yeah, exactly. I'm not like you. It's a band.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

But. But after that all blew up. I mean, definitely. People were like, oh, I guess you must be a real fan of theirs. Stuff like that.

[Colin]

No, no, actually, not anymore.

[Beau]

Wow.

[Colin]

Wow.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

I played drums in prison, too, which was.

[Colin]

Tell Me More.

[Beau]

Yeah, no kidding.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Well, they had a music program. You had to, you know, behave well to even access it.

[Beau]

Which prison was this, if you don't mind me asking?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

I was in a few when I. When I started because I had a violent crime. You know, you start at a higher level. Higher level and you kind of work down. But I was at a one in Colorado called Lyman, and they're all. They're all just named after the town they're in, basically.

[Beau]

I've heard that the Boulder prison is like the nicest prison. This is a hilarious thing to talk about, but you can.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

You can go, basically. And, you know, they have like, church bands that'll play little songs.

[Colin]

Sometimes Metallica.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Sometimes Metallica.

[Colin]

Do they have a china?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

No, they didn't. Fucking bullshit. I should ask the warden for a chance.

[Colin]

Warden? Come on, man. I didn't get one on Satisfaction. It's my biggest regret.

[Beau]

Listen to what could have Been.

[Colin]

But it was.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

It was really cool for my mental health to be able to do that even once in a while.

[Beau]

That's awesome.

[Colin]

It's just to get the chops up, you know.

[Beau]

Well, it's cool to me that, like, even though you're totally clean now and you. You have a different perspective, this is still something that, like, you're passionate about, you know, that you want to do. That feels good.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yeah.

[Beau]

That's awesome.

[Colin]

Any absolute shredders in the Colorado prison system?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Some really great guitarists. I mean, there's some talent. I mean, like, whatever you're talking about in prison, I mean, there's. There's incredible artists. I mean, people with nothing but time on their hands.

[Colin]

Right.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Wow. Perfect. Their. Whatever their craft is.

[Colin]

Yeah. How. Other than drums, what was your. What was your taunt, your day to day?

[Beau]

Did you take any classes or anything?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

I took college classes.

[Colin]

That's awesome.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yeah. So that was really, you know, because, I mean, that's. That's your biggest enemy is like filling the time constructively and not falling into. Into.

[Beau]

Because is it just as easy relatively to. To get drugs if you needed to or wanted to?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Oh, definitely. Yeah.

[Beau]

So it's still right there. So really, you're making.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

So even though I. I kind of, I guess, kicked it the physical part in. In. In prison.

[Beau]

Yeah.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

I mean, it's everywhere. When I. When I first went to prison proper, from county jail, the. The guy that they put me in the room with was bringing dope in through the visiting room.

[Colin]

So you're having to make a conscious choice at this point every day, basically.

[Beau]

Which.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Although once you, you know, once you kick the physical part of it, it is more of a mental game, you.

[Beau]

Know, but it's arguably. I mean, I could be talking about my ass. It seems more difficult because you have all this time.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yeah.

[Beau]

What else are you gonna do? You know, that's crazy, But I mean.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

90% of the drama in prison, violence and know, fist fights to stabbings to whatever is about drugs or some kind of gambling debt.

[Colin]

You gamble.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

So. So, so, so right away I'm like.

[Beau]

You know, so you're doing yourself a favor in multiple ways. Yeah.

[Colin]

You're. I mean, you get out of prison and you're like Captain America coming out of the ice. You know, what do you do? What's the first thing you do? What's the first thing you eat?

[Beau]

O.

[Colin]

What's. What do you. What do you. What are new hobbies? You pick Up.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

So when I.

[Beau]

First thing. You eat, that's.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

I got locked up in very early 2000.

[Colin]

Yeah.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

So.

[Colin]

So PS2 was like.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

So cell phones weren't even really.

[Beau]

Yeah.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Prevalent.

[Colin]

Right.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

I mean, you'd have the giant ass one in your car maybe. Yeah.

[Colin]

Hello?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

What? So that took a lot of getting used to. Self. Checkouts terrified me. Like, at the halfway house, the first time I could go to the store by myself, I distinctly remember it. I could like walk to the store unchaperoned, free to get deodorant.

[Colin]

Right. And like, I gotta do this myself.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

There's 800 kinds of deodorant.

[Colin]

Yeah.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Like in prison you get one. You know what I mean? So I. I was just. I don't know. It was just like.

[Colin]

Was everything overwhelming?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Overstimulated?

[Beau]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

I don't, you know, what did you, like. Why is this cash register talking to me? You know, like that?

[Colin]

Just the world. I mean, are there bigger advancements in technology than 2000 to.

[Beau]

Well, it's like Brooks, he saw a car once before he went to prison. Then he gets out. Do you recall the first thing you ate after you got out?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Well, it. When I was at a halfway house, they pretty much feed you.

[Beau]

Okay. They. They cook for you.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

It's kind of like prison where they. There's a chowal and they feed you stuff like that. But I think. I think the first thing I had was a Carl's Jr. Because that was close to the halfway house.

[Beau]

Smash sounds great. Yeah, yeah, I imagine that would hit really well.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

But honestly, no matter what you ate, just being able to pick it for yourself.

[Beau]

Yeah. That tastes better than anything. Wow.

[Colin]

So you don't have a plan getting out? What. What is your life like for the next year or two?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Well, I got a job almost immediately because you have to. At that point, you have to.

[Colin]

And is carpentry something you. How do you get back into that?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Well, so one of the last facilities I was at, like, prison wise, as they step you down through the security levels, you get more freedom to get on a work crew or do different things. So I had a maintenance job that was like light carpentry, repair and drywall fixing shit that people mess up in their cells. So I kind of kept those skills fresh. I read about it a lot. You know, my family who had sent me subscriptions to like, trade magazines. That cool. Because I was doing that stuff like, all through when I was in bands.

[Colin]

Right.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

That was. That was how I made a living. Yeah.

[Beau]

Right.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

So when I got a chance to get a job. That's just what I went back to. And yeah, I just started. I just started working. Really. My big goal, which really wasn't in my control, was to be able to move. Move back east, because that's where almost all my family.

[Colin]

Sure.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

But, you know, that's not up to me.

[Beau]

Yeah.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

I could have gone up to the wife. Now I would have been on the run forever.

[Beau]

How long before you were allowed to leave the state?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

2012, maybe.

[Colin]

Wow.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yeah.

[Colin]

That's why it took me a while to meet you, I guess.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yeah.

[Beau]

And.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

And that was only like. That was like a heavily supervised, like, this is where you're going. This is when you're coming back.

[Beau]

Oh, okay.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

I was still in the system, so to speak.

[Beau]

Gotcha. Gotcha. But you got to go see family, see friends.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yep.

[Colin]

Wow.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yeah. And so the woman I was dating that precipitated moving to Colorado in the first place, we had a daughter.

[Colin]

Ah.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Who was born after I was locked up.

[Colin]

Wow.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

So I got to spend some time with her when I got out because she was still in Colorado. And then by the time I was actually free and could have moved to Mass, she was getting ready to go to high school.

[Colin]

Okay, so you want to be. You want to be there?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yeah. I mean, that's the worst possible time to leave, but I also have a son here, so anyway, we worked it out where my son could come visit and could go visit them, and it's great. Try to. Try to.

[Colin]

And how are your relationships now?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

I would say under the circumstances, they're really good.

[Beau]

Awesome.

[Colin]

That's amazing.

[Beau]

I mean, that's literally the best you could hope for.

[Colin]

Yeah.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Obviously there were some rough patches and a lot of, like, awkwardness of, you know, like, an implied relationship, but you actually don't really know each other.

[Beau]

Of course.

[Colin]

But the effort. I mean, the effort, after all, that is huge.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yeah.

[Colin]

Do they prefer hate or death?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

They don't give a. About bands I was in.

[Beau]

What are their names at all?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

John and Ivy.

[Colin]

John and Ivy. If you're watching, you got to make a choice. Okay.

[Beau]

Are they into music at all or.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Oh, yeah, big time. They're both. They're both super into music and I think. I mean, they appreciate the musicians. No, my daughter played the piano a little while. She. She's a. Like a pro skater.

[Colin]

What?

[Beau]

Like skateboarder?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Roller skating. Like, awesome.

[Colin]

That's incredible.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

X game trick inline. Yeah. Awesome.

[Beau]

Cool.

[Colin]

That's a very western mass.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Well, she's in Colorado.

[Colin]

Colorado. But the blood is. Western mass is right wow. That's awesome. What's your son all about? What's he into?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

He was in the. He joined the Marines. He came and lived with us in Colorado for a little while and, you know, was kind of bouncing around. Joined in the Marines. His mom didn't want him to, but he did. He was in there for six years, and now he's a bail bondsman in Connecticut with a bunch of other Marines. Well, if you don't show up for court, these guys come, and they come and get you down.

[Beau]

I imagine they stay busy, too.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Wow.

[Colin]

Yeah.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

So they work in, like, Hartford. Bridgeport.

[Colin]

Hartford. Wild. Wild West. Living in the middle of Hartford is. I did that. Was there for a while.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yeah. I was finally able to move back, and it was kind of, you know, my daughter got to be a teenager, and, like, they don't want to hang out with their parents.

[Beau]

Yeah, of course.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

But. And my mom is also kind of, as this is going on, getting older, too, and she's in Springfield, so my wife and I moved back.

[Beau]

Beautiful. When. When was that? When did you end up going back?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

When we moved back here, yeah. It was. It was like, a couple months before COVID or before the Pandemic.

[Beau]

Oh, wow.

[Colin]

Holy shit.

[Beau]

Pressure cooker.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

We bought our house, and Jessica Martin and Jessica and Sean took us out to celebrate, and the waitress came and said, like, as we were having dinner, they're shutting everything down. Like, that night.

[Colin]

Did you not get to eat?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

No, we smashed everything we ordered, like, everything we could get.

[Colin]

I was gonna say. Sean Martin was not. He's. I'm leaving here with something. Yeah. Yo, we ate and drank. What the.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Although we. We didn't have any idea of how, you know, of course.

[Beau]

I. I distinctly remember having conversations with you with the band.

[Colin]

There was a show.

[Beau]

Six weeks. We'll be fine.

[Colin]

There's a Riding out show on, like, a March 12th.

[Beau]

Yeah.

[Colin]

A lot of people got sick at the Riding out show. Wow.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

But then we moved back to get back to the music thing. We moved back, yes.

[Beau]

Yeah.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Started doing some anniversary shows. I think that's the first time I met you.

[Colin]

Yes.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

In Philly.

[Colin]

This hardcore, Right?

[Beau]

That's for Death Threat.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yep. That was with the original lineup.

[Beau]

And who approached you about doing that?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Aaron.

[Beau]

Aaron. So you're. You're back. And Aaron says, well, actually, we did.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

A couple shows before I moved back. I was still in Colorado. We just kind of met in the middle.

[Beau]

Yeah.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

But then. Then we moved back, and it was kind of more. More of a frequent thing.

[Beau]

Where was the first one?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Back that. It was. It was.

[Beau]

How did that feel?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Nervous. These guys are watching me.

[Beau]

Yeah.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

It didn't help.

[Colin]

Yeah. Last night was not the first time.

[Beau]

That was when you met.

[Colin]

I just lie. Just make that up. I've seen you do it before. Whatever. I probably did the same thing I did last night where I was just. We. And me and my brother are watching.

[Beau]

So was that. So that's when you 2 Met? Was 2019.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

This is hard.

[Colin]

It was that day I went and.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Watched Eyes of the Lord practice. That was really good. That was really cool.

[Colin]

Sorry, man. Yeah. I. Stealing all your stuff all this time. That was probably like, what the he's doing. I think I already get that. China.

[Beau]

Because we played Harm's Way played that year, but we. I think we played the night before.

[Colin]

Yeah.

[Beau]

And we. We played a fest in Montreal the next day. We had to leave immediately, so I didn't get to see.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Jackie also played that night.

[Colin]

Yes, he did. Big night for us. So what, do you have plans now to do any kind of new music?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yeah, actually, we've been talking about writing some new Death Threat stuff.

[Colin]

Yeah.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Which is probably, you know, time we're playing the same songs for a while.

[Colin]

Yeah. But when it comes to a certain point, that's allowed.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Well, although half the songs that we like that we played last night are relatively new to me.

[Colin]

Totally.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

You know, as far as playing them.

[Colin]

So how is that? Are you like, damn, these are good.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yeah.

[Colin]

I love them.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

They're so. They're so. Like, there's. They're a lot different.

[Colin]

Yeah.

[Beau]

You know, question for you. When you were locked up, were you keeping up with music? Were you listening to hardcore or anything? What were you able to get your hands on?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

As much as I could. MTV2 was like my main conduit to the world. I mean, you know, it makes total sense.

[Beau]

Yeah. That's literally we talk about all the time. That's like how I saw Typo for the first time.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

So I was watching, like, new metal really blow up. So, I mean, like, musically, especially for hardcore, I missed the 2000s.

[Colin]

Sure.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Basically.

[Colin]

Which. Some dark times. Yeah.

[Beau]

Yeah, some dark times.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

When I got out, Bruce. Almost immediately. When I got to the halfway house and could have stuff, Bruce sent me a loaded ipod with, like, everything that I missed. So it was like my first time here in Death, Before Dishonor and. I don't know, just all these bands that are, you know, man, classic.

[Beau]

That's. That's a beautiful thing, huh?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

It's a good friend, you know, riding my bike to work Just have my mind blown.

[Colin]

Years and years of hardcore to catch up on. Wow.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Curated by Bruce.

[Colin]

And he's. He's. He's got his ear.

[Beau]

He's got his ear to the ground.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yeah.

[Beau]

It's true.

[Colin]

Are there. Are there other bands of like modern era that have. Have jumped out to you as something you would have liked?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Oh yeah, tons.

[Colin]

Okay.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Tons.

[Colin]

Nice.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

But I. I have this weird delay with music because of that time I missed. You know, like I'll hear something that's 15 years old and it's relatively new.

[Colin]

This hot young band is awesome. They're all gone.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

And then just the volume of new bands, that is a lot.

[Colin]

I mean it's like too many.

[Beau]

There's overwhelming, there's. I feel like there's more now currently than. Absolutely.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

You can't ever go wrong with like, you know, trusted friends recommending you stuff. That's. That's a good way to start.

[Colin]

Could I trouble you? Could you tell me your four favorite hardcore records of all time? I know.

[Beau]

Take your time.

[Colin]

The ones that made you. You know. First things that come to mind, I'd.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Probably have to say Chromag's self titled Age of Quarrel. Age of Quarrel. Yeah. Sorry. Bomb. Bomb on the bomb.

[Beau]

Yeah, the bomb.

[Colin]

Chromag's bomb. 100%.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Just because of. I mean context of what I heard. It fucking blew my mind. Killing time, bright side would be huge. Like again context and I mean that's what. That's what like bloodbath. And eventually all the stuff that got built onto that.

[Colin]

Yeah.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Was. Was trying to sound like.

[Colin]

How do you as a drummer not go. Yeah, this is exactly.

[Beau]

Yeah, right.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

This is kind of slept on deep cut. But for me it was huge. Stark weather into the wire.

[Beau]

Whoa.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

I'd never heard anything so that is evil.

[Colin]

And dude, it's dark sided.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yeah.

[Colin]

But like beautiful. And that's again there's that melody coming back because that guy's an incredible. That guy can wail.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yeah.

[Beau]

Interesting. One more.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

It probably especially saying this as a drummer. Poison Idea. Feel the Darkness.

[Beau]

Dude, love that record and that.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

I mean that's one of the ones that you remember hearing for the first time.

[Colin]

And that motherfucker is Dr. Phil. He is doing.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yeah.

[Colin]

Phil's. Every. Every like 10 seconds there's a. Unbelievable. Yeah. That's one of my favorite records ever. Those are great answers.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Those are just off the. I mean I could probably.

[Beau]

Dr.

[Colin]

I like. I like the reflex though. Now I just hit a. I'm gonna do a feel. So something I want to know Jamie, in prison, many people find religion, spirituality. Is that something that you ever dabbled in?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

No, I can't. I can't say.

[Colin]

So as a non religious man, I.

[Beau]

Didn'T know where you were going with this.

[Colin]

Do you believe in ghosts?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

No.

[Beau]

That's right.

[Colin]

So you've seen terrors? The explainable terrors, I suppose.

[Beau]

Man made.

[Colin]

So you never seen any. You never had a conversation with Pete Morrissey about specters and the occult and.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

No, I've had a lot of conversations with Pete, but never, never about that.

[Colin]

You should ask him about it. You might end up feeling differently, you know, and you never had, you never seen nothing, you never heard nothing that made you second guess that?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

No, I wouldn't say so. Interesting. How about I'm not superstitious, so I, I tend to, you know, try to like, put some kind of logic to it and.

[Beau]

Yeah. And you know, the other night at, at a, At a, a family thing I was at with Taylor, there was a. A little guy, 3, and he was pointing at a dark room and going, ah. You know, like, wasn't really verbal yet and pointing. And the whole family was. Was like frozen. Like, what's he pointing at? What is he doing? And I, I got up and looked and there was like a little LED candle. Like he just wants.

[Colin]

Beautiful candle.

[Beau]

I just held it to him and he went and touched it and that was it. It was. It was a perfect. It reminded me of you so much. You're that kid.

[Colin]

Oh, I'm. I'm the candle.

[Beau]

Do you believe in aliens?

[Colin]

Now you're talking.

[Beau]

No color, no.

[Colin]

Colorado.

[Beau]

You don't think they exist if you don't see them in Colorado, you're not seeing them.

[Colin]

That's true.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Well, I'm just very. I mean, obviously there's a ton of unexplained kind of stuff like that, but I mean, both paranormal and aliens. But I mean, I got to see something too.

[Beau]

You got to see it.

[Colin]

Okay.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

You believe what you are.

[Colin]

You open to it?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

I'm open to it.

[Beau]

I think that's the.

[Colin]

Much like Santa.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yeah.

[Colin]

Come on. Like, I'm waiting. Give me something. Please, Santa. Aliens. Ghosts. If you're watching, pay Jamie a visit. Okay. Demons make me believer. Yeah, make him a believer, please. So during your brief touring tenure as a. As a journeyman around, around the country, did you ever tour internationally at all?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

No. Recently went to and played in Europe for the first time.

[Colin]

Wow.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Last year with. With Death Threat.

[Colin]

How was that?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Incredible.

[Beau]

Where'd you play?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Revolution Calling Eindhoven.

[Beau]

Eindhoven.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yeah.

[Beau]

One of my favorite cities in the entire continent.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

My wife and I spent a week there and just kind of.

[Beau]

It's really nice.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Some tourist stuff.

[Beau]

They really like Americans there.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yeah.

[Colin]

World War II and their English is like. Hey, Jamie. Yeah, it's me, Hans.

[Beau]

Yeah. It's really good to meet. Yeah, they're. I love it.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

There's recently went to Canada for the first time too. Which as a felon is tough to do.

[Colin]

Tough to do.

[Beau]

Yeah.

[Colin]

Great. Cool.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

We went with Gigon.

[Colin]

Okay. You had a good agent that day at the border.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yeah. Well, we paid a hefty. They're the immigration lawyer.

[Beau]

And I hate border agency.

[Colin]

It's easier to go to Eindhoven than drive four hours.

[Beau]

Where'd you go to Toronto or Montreal?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Montreal in Quebec City.

[Beau]

Yeah.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yeah.

[Colin]

Montreal is.

[Beau]

Montreal is pretty cool.

[Colin]

Death threat country.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yeah, man.

[Colin]

Yeah.

[Beau]

How was the show?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

It was great.

[Beau]

Yeah?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yeah. Blessed.

[Colin]

Beautiful.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

I don't think they had played up there in a long time. So cool.

[Colin]

Nice. Throughout your touring tenure when you're not. And this feels such like silly. Such a silly question to ask you. Are you a food driven person at all?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Not really.

[Colin]

You're a skinny guy.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yeah, I'm a skinny guy.

[Colin]

Been skinny your whole life.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yeah, I've pretty much been this weight my whole life.

[Colin]

Really good for you, man. I've been that weight a month ago. I've been 250. Can't stop.

[Beau]

But e. Even. Even so, as this is difficult for us because we are the most food driven individuals, I imagine there's still something where you're like, God, that sounds good.

[Colin]

What gets you going? What gets you skirting off the freeway? I need that.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

As far as. As far as stuff you might find on tour.

[Beau]

Yeah, yeah.

[Colin]

We.

[Beau]

We like to ask. We call it the Golden Arches question. We're going to rebrand that, I think, but we just. We like to pretend there's a place somewhere, wherever you are that just has anything. It's magic.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Well, I'm. I'm a huge breakfast head.

[Beau]

There we go.

[Colin]

Okay.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Any. You know, I'll eat breakfast three times a day.

[Beau]

Yeah.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

If. If it came to that.

[Beau]

So is that like eggs and sweets or egg and steak? You know, more.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

More savory than sweet. I don't eat a lot of sweet.

[Colin]

Stuff usually, but Skinny.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yeah, skinny.

[Colin]

That's how you stay that way. I've learned.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

So you know anything like, you know a Cracker barrel Bob Evans, Dude, Bob Evans.

[Colin]

You love a Bob Evans.

[Beau]

The home fries at Bob Evans.

[Colin]

That's a place that I have, like, avoiding at all costs. You should.

[Beau]

It's good.

[Colin]

Really?

[Beau]

Yeah, it's good.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Denny's has a special place in my heart because when I met my wife after getting out of prison. Yeah. We used to kind of go there because she was working nights and I would work during the day and we'd kind of meet there when we're dating and.

[Colin]

Yeah. Now, were you out for. Of prison for the Hobbit franchise coming out?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yes.

[Colin]

Did you get to enjoy the Hobbit menu at Denny's?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yes.

[Colin]

Unbelievable.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Wow.

[Beau]

Really?

[Colin]

You okay?

[Beau]

That's the first time you didn't miss anything.

[Colin]

You got the Hobbit Men menu. You're doing fine. Don't worry.

[Beau]

How do you feel about Waffle House?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

I love it. Yeah. We're gonna go smash it while we're here.

[Colin]

That's the best of the best.

[Beau]

That's is the best one, in my opinion.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

There's one right across the street from our hotel, so.

[Colin]

And it's dinner and a show, you know, because you're gonna see something insane.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Although Death Threat, we went to. We went to Perkins this morning. Just because we don't get that in Northeast.

[Beau]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

It's not.

[Beau]

No, no, it's not great. We have that up by me.

[Colin]

Not a Perkinsman. No, not a Perkins.

[Beau]

I'm a Waffle House guy.

[Colin]

100%.

[Beau]

Yeah.

[Colin]

Last question would be, can you tell me about being on television?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yeah. So when I got out of prison, I, you know, I had a couple construction jobs. Eventually, once I was free, I got a job for a deck company in Colorado which did some really, really cool stuff. But the owners of that company got approached by a. You know, how big reality construction, DIY.

[Colin]

Reality in general is just like a never ending, multi billion dollar. I've worked in reality TV for a long time.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yeah. But the owners got approached about because they do pretty unique, like over the top decks. Yeah, I mean, they're more like additions on the house. So they'll have, you know, an outdoor kitchen in them and they'll be fully glassed off and have a fireplace and bars. Yeah. So in Colorado, the idea is that you. You can use your outdoor space all year, basically. So anyway, they got approached by one of those networks to do a pilot and I was a project manager at that time. I'd kind of worked my way up. So they filmed my crew for three seasons, which is like, I don't know, ended up being like 18 projects for us.

[Colin]

Right. Whoa.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

And the rank and file guys who are doing the work, we didn't get paid anything extra. We didn't really get asked if we wanted to do it. It was more like, this is what we're doing. It's a good move for the company.

[Beau]

I see.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

But after the first season of it, which was like, eight projects, they kind of ran out of work locally, and so we started traveling to do that. So I went to Louisiana and did one. I went to Snake River, Idaho, to do one.

[Colin]

And what was the show called?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Megadex. It's somewhere. It's like, on Amazon. I think you have to pay for it now.

[Colin]

Okay, I'm paying.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

But after three. Three seasons, they just. You know, I think the reality TV crowd's attention span is pretty shitty.

[Colin]

Oh, the bubble is. The bubbles. It's. It. The shittier the better. And that's too good, you know, that's. That's hot. That's highbrow.

[Beau]

Yeah, that's highbrow.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

But as a tradesperson and also, like, as the guy who was responsible for getting these, because there's, like, real customers paying money for these jobs. I hated it because it made their jobs take longer.

[Colin]

Totally.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

These people didn't sign up to be on a TV show.

[Beau]

Oh, really?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yeah.

[Beau]

Oh, wow.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

And they did. They didn't get. You know, they just had their backyard.

[Colin]

They're not getting zag minimum.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

So that kind of ran its course. And we worked for that company. My wife also worked there in the office.

[Colin]

How did you guys meet?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Well, she worked at a restaurant in downtown Colorado Springs, which is one of the few that was, like, in driving distance to. Because that's the other thing you can't do in a halfway house until you've gone through is like, drive a car. Have a car.

[Beau]

Yeah.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

So I was, like, walking or biking everywhere.

[Beau]

Right.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

So anyway, that was one of the few places that I could go, and I knew another hardcore guy who went into that place all the time. And so anyway, I just met her and we just started talking. We were both playing fantasy football at the time, so we went to Denny's and, you know, to play fantasy football. We were kind of just you know, making puppy eyes at each other.

[Beau]

Yeah. Yeah, sure.

[Colin]

Beautiful.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

She's from Texas, so, I mean, I probably never would have met her if I had stayed in the Northeast.

[Colin]

See, everything happens for a reason.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yeah.

[Beau]

And I drug her back east with.

[Colin]

Me, and you got to enjoy the hobby menu together.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yes.

[Colin]

As long as that.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

She would be coming off work, so she would be having, like, you know, an ice a Sunday or something, and I'd be Having breakfast.

[Colin]

The Pancake Puppy Sunday. Unreal.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

I don't know that one.

[Colin]

You don't know that one?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

No. They still got it.

[Beau]

Do they?

[Colin]

Yeah, it's pancake balls of pancakes.

[Beau]

Or like Hush Puppy over.

[Colin]

Got you soft serve ice cream with some fudge.

[Beau]

That sounds amazing.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

To check that out.

[Colin]

You gotta check it out. You might not like it slender, but you know, Jamie, I've had a blast. Yeah.

[Beau]

This rocks.

[Colin]

This is one of my favorite conversations I think we've ever had. Are there any kind of final thoughts you would like to leave us or the people at home with?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

I appreciate you guys, you know, listening to me rant.

[Colin]

I'll do it anytime.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

This is. This is the first podcast or really interview that I've ever done. So it was fun and I definitely kind of had built up in my head a little bit because, I mean, some of this stuff is just. Feels like a lifetime ago.

[Beau]

Sure, of course.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Obviously. But, you know, I. I enjoyed it.

[Colin]

Great. So did we.

[Beau]

Yeah. Thank you.

[Colin]

I can't believe Peace and Security was recorded two years before it came out. And we just glossed over it. Can you tell me about recording Peace and Security? You got your china back.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

I did.

[Colin]

That's huge.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yep.

[Colin]

That's only a year later or something after Satisfaction.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

So. Yeah, it was about. It was about a year after.

[Colin]

I'm gonna. We're gonna. We can go in another hour right now.

[Beau]

Tara starts 2015.

[Colin]

Okay.

[Beau]

We got this.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

So we recorded that in Stoughton, Mass. At the Outpost.

[Colin]

Okay.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

I think Blood for Blood recorded there.

[Beau]

Oh, okay.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

And that was really only my second time in, like, a real studio because Zeus recorded Last Days right in the Death Threat demo.

[Colin]

And was the. Was Last Days like, eight track situation again or. Wow. It sounds fun.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Actually, Last Days we recorded in Buffalo because we stayed with Vogel.

[Colin]

Interesting. Yeah, it sounds great.

[Beau]

Can I ask you something? I've always wanted about Last Days. Where did the SDS chance. Where was that recorded?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Webster Theater in Hartford.

[Colin]

Really? That is really cool.

[Beau]

Was that like, just at a show?

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yeah, it was a. It was a Hate Bridge, Hate Breed and Earth Crisis.

[Beau]

See, this is what I want to know.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

This is the stuff in a. We used to have a kind of a roadie friend of the friend of the band Hate Breed, a guy named Big Mike who passed away.

[Beau]

Okay.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

But the staff at the venue was trying to kick him off the stage. And so.

[Colin]

This is the big room.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Yeah, the big room. Yeah. They were trying to kick him off the stage.

[Colin]

Yeah.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

And he was a huge guy.

[Beau]

Yeah.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

But anyway, There was a lot of them. So once we saw that, everyone just kind of just turned on him. And for me, being a drummer, I just stopped playing. And the quickest way for me to get to the action was to jump over the drum set, like, off the drum set, you know, which. These guys. These guys, they were bigger than Mike.

[Colin]

Totally.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

And. But I don't know, I just launched myself at them. But anyway, after that, scrum kind of resolved itself. Everyone, like all our friends, started the SDS chant.

[Beau]

That's one of the coolest nuggets we've ever gotten.

[Colin]

That is unbelievable. Last Days Peace and Security Satisfaction. Three of my favorite records ever. Speaking to the man that. On the. On the kit behind them. Jamie, thank you so much for being here.

[Jamie Muckenhaupt]

Thank you, guys.

[Colin]

Truly an honor. Appreciate you.

[Beau]

I'll do a big reach.

[Colin]

Yeah. He made me who I am as a. As a drummer. You've inspired many. You will continue to inspire many, and now they get to know you a little bit better, and so have I. Beautiful thing. Thank you all for watching. See you next week. Bye.