Karl Buechner (Earth Crisis)

Summary

HardLore Podcast Episode Summary: Carl Buechner (Earth Crisis) | Released March 13, 2025

HardLore delves deep into the intertwining lives of hardcore music and lore, presenting intricate narratives from the touring life within the hardcore, punk, and metal scenes. In this compelling episode, hosts Colin Young and Bo Lueders engage in a profound conversation with Carl Buechner, the influential frontman of Earth Crisis. The discussion spans Carl's journey as a vegan straight-edge activist, his contributions to the hardcore music scene, and his latest literary endeavor.

---

1. Introduction and Earth Crisis Origins

[00:00 - 00:34]

The episode kicks off with Colin referencing the symbolic elements of Earth Crisis's logo. Carl explains the inspiration behind the band's emblem:

"The Earth first logo. They're a group that would go out in the woods and try and stop logging or mining companies from clear cutting... their logo was a stone hammer and a wrench." [00:02]

He elaborates on the need for a unique symbol that diverged from other straight-edge bands, combining the stone hammer with a wrench to represent both alignment and sabotage.

2. Carl Buechner’s Personal Journey

[06:24 - 10:03]

Carl shares his formative experiences that led him to adopt the straight-edge and vegan lifestyles:

"I became Straight Edge, I think, in '86. I was 16... I saw some pretty bad examples within my own family... drugs can be very dangerous..." [07:27]

A pivotal moment was being hit by a drunk driver, which solidified his resolve to remain clean and avoid environments that perpetuate substance abuse.

3. Formation and Evolution of Earth Crisis

[29:00 - 31:20]

The discussion transitions to the creation of Earth Crisis’s logo and the band's early days:

"The Earth first logo... I thought that was awesome. And Judge already took the hammers. I was like, we need something... How about a wrench to realign and a monkey wrench to sabotage?" [30:47]

Carl emphasizes the blend of animal rights and environmental activism woven into the band's identity, setting them apart in the hardcore scene.

4. Early Tours, Recording Firestorm, and Band Dynamics

[32:03 - 86:00]

Carl recounts the challenges and adventures of touring in the early days:

"We took my girlfriend's car... the muffler went out, so we skid... we ended up staying with Dennis, our drummer." [42:52]

The recording of the Firestorm EP is highlighted as a testament to the band's tenacity:

"We wrote that first record in three practices." [93:01]

He shares anecdotes about aggressive encounters with Nazi skinheads, emphasizing the band's commitment to their message:

"It was a yogurt carpet bombing... but the crowd kept singing." [84:03]

5. Roadrunner Debut and Subsequent Albums

[91:00 - 118:00]

Transitioning to their relationship with Roadrunner Records, Carl discusses signing with the label and the evolution of their music:

"We wanted something different... we wanted to scream hard and blend metal into hardcore." [62:03]

The Destroy the Machines album is praised for its technicality and thematic depth:

"We took a lot of elements from Firestorm... let the drums breathe." [64:12]

Carl also touches on the critical response to their music, including mixed receptions but overall acclaim for their bold messages.

6. Branding, Merchandise, and Symbolism

[115:35 - 118:00]

Carl elaborates on the thoughtful approach Earth Crisis took towards their merchandise and branding:

"We wanted it to be its own piece of art, to send a message." [116:04]

He acknowledges the lasting impact of their symbols, such as the wrenches, and how they have become synonymous with straight-edge culture:

"All credit goes to you guys for that... it still needs to happen." [116:42]

7. Path Resistance and Overcoming Adversity

[88:00 - 127:35]

Following a traumatic van crash during the Destroy the Machines tour, Carl narrates the band's resilience and the formation of Path Resistance:

"After the crash, everyone was hurt... but we decided to reignite Path Resistance." [124:04]

He discusses the band's ability to adapt using technology, such as emailing riffs, to continue creating music despite geographic separations:

"We saw that this can be done. We don't all have to live in the same place." [127:05]

8. The Unraveling: The Council of Crows and Literary Pursuits

[160:34 - End]

Carl introduces his latest project, The Unraveling: The Council of Crows, a science fiction trilogy inspired by his activism:

"It's a story designed for middle-aged readers... a reflection of how humans have been a very destructive force." [161:37]

He emphasizes the book's aim to inspire compassion and serve as a corrective narrative against environmental and animal exploitation:

"It should clarify why compassion is so important." [162:17]

9. Legacy and Future of Hardcore Music

[127:35 - 142:00]

In reflecting on Earth Crisis’s legacy, Carl underscores the collective effort within the straight-edge and hardcore communities:

"It's a team effort... passing the torch to each other." [136:53]

He envisions a future where hardcore music continues to promote unity, activism, and resilience:

"I want to heal the world. I want unity between people and the hardcore scene." [140:14]

10. Closing Remarks and Final Insights

[158:57 - End]

Carl concludes by highlighting Earth Crisis's enduring impact and the importance of maintaining their activist spirit:

"We're still in love with this music... it's in our blood." [137:57]

He expresses gratitude towards the podcast hosts and reaffirms his commitment to activism through both music and literature.

---

Notable Quotes

• Carl Buechner on Straight Edge Necessity:
  "Straight Edge is the path of resistance through life. We're going to sweep obstacles out of our path and achieve our goals with clarity others can't." [16:27]

• On Brand Symbolism:
  "We wanted it to be its own piece of art, to send a message." [116:04]

• Legacy of Team Effort:
  "It's a team effort... passing the torch to each other." [136:53]

• Vision for the Future:
  "I want to heal the world. I want unity between people and the hardcore scene." [140:14]

---

This episode of HardLore offers a rich exploration of Carl Buechner’s multifaceted influence in the hardcore scene, underscored by his unwavering commitment to straight-edge and vegan principles. Through personal anecdotes and reflective insights, listeners gain a comprehensive understanding of the intersection between music, activism, and personal resilience.

Transcript

[Colin]

I want to ask about the wrenches.

[Carl Buechner]

The Earth first logo. They're a group that would go out in the woods and try and stop logging or mining companies from clear cutting or strip mining or doing things that were destructive towards the natural world and disrupting wildlife's habitats. So these guys were going out there and sabotaging machinery and preventing roads from being put into wilderness areas. Like, they were going all out. And their logo was a stone hammer and a wrench.

[Colin]

And Judge already took hammers, so.

[Carl Buechner]

And Judge already took the hammers. I was like, we need something. And I had these radical. We all did. We had these radical. Which we still do. Animal rights, animal liberation views. I was like, how about a wrench to realign and a monkey wrench to sabotage? We'll put them together and overlay them.

[Bo]

Stephen, clip it.

[Colin]

Hello, welcome. It's hard Lore time. How are you, Beau?

[Bo]

I'm doing so well. Colin, how are you?

[Colin]

Exquisite. Because, frankly, it's a huge week on the show.

[Bo]

It really is.

[Colin]

It's a long time coming. Some would say it's 30 years coming, you know, 31. Who's counting? We've got a very special guest today.

[Bo]

That's right.

[Colin]

The man who's responsible for me being Straightedge. Many being straight edge, many being vegan. One of the all time great straight edge frontmen. Certainly one of the all time great vegan straight edge frontmen. The trailblazing, groundbreaking frontman of Earth Crisis, Mr. Carl Beechner. How are you, sir?

[Carl Buechner]

Good. How are you, gentlemen?

[Colin]

Fantastic.

[Bo]

Doing really good. Thank you for coming back. We had a little mini with you quite some time ago, and I feel like we were just. We were just scratching the surface, you know, we were barely getting in there.

[Colin]

That was one of our first interviews ever. One of our first, like, fest interviews ever.

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Colin]

You. I don't. We had. We had, like, spoken briefly a few times before then, but I think in that moment you were kind of approaching it, like, what the hell am I getting myself into? Have you. Have you watched that back since?

[Carl Buechner]

It's a furnace fest. Yeah, yeah, it's awesome.

[Colin]

We're just kind of talking at you for 15 minutes, which is great.

[Bo]

We're just like. And another thing, like, the whole time.

[Colin]

So I'm excited to, you know, have you talk today and learn some things. You know, you've been vegan for so long. You've been straightish for so long. You've been doing band stuff for so long. But now I have just learned you are an author.

[Carl Buechner]

I am an author, yes.

[Colin]

How does that Happen. How did that come to be? I should say. Tell me about the unraveling. The Council of Crows.

[Carl Buechner]

Okay. Years ago I wrote a short story about animals that had evolved after being experimented on in a vivisectionist laboratory. And they live in the future and the world is very different. Not to give everything away, but in the. Sure, sure. In the story they're created by a laboratory that works for a mercenary army, like let's say Blackwater or Triple Canopy, something like that, which are real. And the Navy has used dolphins, the military has used dogs. So all those kinds of things are, are real.

[Colin]

And it's a fantastical true story in some way, right?

[Carl Buechner]

Well, it has elements of reality embedded into the plot, but it's, but it's about the future and it's kind of, uh, it's kind of a way for us to look at how bizarre some of the warlike behavior is when it's conducted by these animals and then kind of look at the mirror image of it and, and it's a reflection of how humans have this cutthroat competitive conquerors nature.

[Bo]

Wow.

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah.

[Bo]

So I said to Colin that the. The title and subtitle is like, it sounds like an Earth Crisis record.

[Carl Buechner]

Are you approaching the carryover of the, you know, a lot of the animal rights and environmental anti state sponsored warfare ideas that Earth Crisis has always been about? Wow.

[Bo]

I just got chills. He just, he just chilled me up.

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah, it's a science fiction story. Yeah, it's a science fiction story.

[Colin]

Well, I mean we know that there's no man more qualified to tell a tale about animals destroying the machines. So it's cool that young readers will now become familiar with story and then go back and, and hear what brought you there over time.

[Carl Buechner]

That's right. And, and Earth Crisis has done something similar in the past. We did a, a comic book companion to the Salvation of Innocence record years ago.

[Bo]

Whoa.

[Carl Buechner]

I don't know if you guys saw that. I'll. I'll definitely mail you guys a couple copies, but this is a whole, this is a whole world that we took a short story that I wrote and my pals Jeremy and Keith are both incredible writers and over the years we built it into a world and there's three books and it debuts on Earth Day. It's being released, so we're getting close.

[Bo]

What's the date of Earth Day?

[Carl Buechner]

I think it's towards the end of 22nd.

[Colin]

April 22nd, I believe, or something like that.

[Carl Buechner]

Keith might have wrote it down.

[Colin]

Stephen will insert it here. I'll tell you what.

[Bo]

Thank you, Stephen.

[Colin]

Thank you so much. Steven.

[Carl Buechner]

Yes, Steven will send it.

[Colin]

You can pre order that now. You can pick it up at Barnes and Noble. This is. I'm telling you, this thing is real.

[Carl Buechner]

Amazon. Amazon. You can do the pre orders for sure. Yeah.

[Bo]

Even now I'm going to go and get mine from my local book seller.

[Colin]

And you should all do the same.

[Bo]

I really look forward to that.

[Colin]

So, Carl.

[Carl Buechner]

Yes.

[Colin]

In 2025 now, how many years now does this mark as Straight Edge and vegan for you?

[Carl Buechner]

I became Straight Edge, I think, in 86. I was 16, but I had never really wanted to experiment with drugs or alcohol or smoking or anything like that. I saw some pretty bad examples within my own family as to what types of problems those things would lead to, so I really shied away from it. Yeah. And when I discovered Straight Edge through the bands of the time, I was like, this is perfect. This. This fits incredibly well with the views I already have. So.

[Colin]

So the bands at the time being Minor Threat, ssd, Youth of Today, et cetera. Any others?

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah, yeah. Dys. Absolutely. Uniform Choice. And I probably had the greatest high school graduation weekend of. Of anybody ever in 89. We. We graduated from high school on Friday. That night we saw Uniform Choice at a club that's now gone called the Elks Lodge in Syracuse. And then we traveled to Albany and saw. Took an entry on what I think was the Jaybird Tour.

[Colin]

One weekend in one weekend.

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah. Oh, it was unbelievable.

[Colin]

Yeah, Used to have it good.

[Bo]

Let me ask you something, Carl. When you were that young, and maybe you were too young to really scrutinize it this way, but based on how I. I'm assuming you kind of evolved through Straight Edge and your opinions on it, specifically through Earth Rice isn't path. Did you. Were you more into the SSDs and DYs that are a little more overtly and harder Edge as opposed to Minor Threat and Uniform Choice that were kind of like, hey, you know, kind of more like liberal about it. Like, did you see yourself aligning one way or the other, or was that not even a thought yet?

[Carl Buechner]

Loved it all. I loved it all and I took it very seriously. About a year later, I was very, very much. My buddy JT and I were very into skateboarding. I had like a half pipe in my backyard that we made out of lumber we stole from a construction site. And we were just really focused on being the best skateboarders we could. And actually, I think it was. I might have been 18, but I was with my girlfriend and we were sitting at a stoplight. The story's going someplace, okay? And I was like. It was a night. I was like, that guy is gonna hit us. She was sitting there. She's like, what guy? I'm like, that car's speeding towards us. That guy's gonna hit us. I go back up or pull forward, and she's like, what? Bam. This drunk driver hit us. The car spun around. He got out. He was crying. Something horrible must have happened to him. And he picked a brick up out of a. Off of a wall, like a little flagstone, and broke his window because I think he had locked himself out. And he sped off.

[Bo]

Oh.

[Carl Buechner]

And we were sitting there stunned. And, like, my knee got hit against the door, and it was wild. Like, she was. She was okay, but my. My knee was hurt. Like, we were rattled. And it just. That experience, you know, was very nerve wracking, and it was kind of a painful recovery. And I think that at. That's the point where I started to be like, you know, drugs and alcohol can be very dangerous for everyone, not just the person that's, like, using them for escapism or whatever. Wow.

[Colin]

So that moment would kind of go on to define your entire life in many ways.

[Carl Buechner]

It did. It did. And then, you know, just seeing relatives pass away from problems that were directly result direct results of addiction or. And then after that, you know, people are influenced by things in good ways and bad ways. And right now, the three of us are talking about the good influences. There's also a lot of negative influences out there. Like, a lot of the harder hardcore kids figured out that they could sell drugs and make money. And some of my friends are going over to Europe and they'd fill backpacks up with whatever they were smuggling, and they'd ride the trains around and they'd come back with dough and, you know, and even just from simple stuff like weed, they're making like $300 in two days, which back then was a lot of money, you know?

[Bo]

Sure.

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah. And I was like, I don't. I don't ever want to be a part of this. I'm gonna make, like, a clear line of demarcation between those types of behaviors of myself.

[Colin]

And were you. Were you scrutinized at the time for not taking part in any of that?

[Carl Buechner]

Well, of course people wanted me to do stuff because it was lucrative, and we were all insane, hardcore skateboard dudes. You know what I mean?

[Bo]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Carl Buechner]

And we. And we were the only hardcore dudes at the time. And that's not to say everybody was involved in that, but like, you know, teams were kind of factions were kind of splitting and people were going one way or another. And I was starting to get more militant and they were starting to get more, you know, fast track to profit minded. And the city was in a lot of trouble. We had at least four factories closed during that time, including Carrier, which was where they made all the air conditioners and things like that.

[Colin]

Can't lose that.

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah, yeah, I know. And like the, like the street that, that ran directly up the middle of the city, you know, the main, like boulevard, like all, like one by one, all those buildings started closing down, those offices and getting boarded up and people were leaving the city to go to like Tennessee or North Carolina for jobs. And in a place like Syracuse, we're not in New York City. We're not one of the boroughs, we're north. For people that don't know, if you look at a map of New York State and put a pin in the center, that's where we are. We'll call it Central New York. But the winters here are very severe. So as soon as these buildings were abandoned and windows got smashed out or boarded up, like in three, four years, because of the weather here, it started to look like the city was falling down totally. You know, so the jobs are gone. You know, certain sections look like a wreck. People were upset and angry. People were leaving. You know, people saw their dads playing the game and losing, so they were trying to take shortcuts.

[Bo]

Well, yeah, what can I do to prevent. What's the point? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Colin]

So you got, you can empathize but also not take part of it.

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah, actively, exactly. Because I, because I did not grow up in a hardcore scene. We did not really. We had a hardcore scene flare up here in the very early 80s that I was a little too young to be a part of. I got to know those guys later. Some of those bands like Fast Furious, Death and Catatonix, like, they were, they were legit good. Like, I would definitely urge everyone to check out the Catatonix Hunted down seven Inch. It's, it's great.

[Bo]

Awesome.

[Carl Buechner]

So, I mean, there are school kids and there's good, good music being made, but like that hardcore scene, you know, rose and fell pretty quickly. And then it kind of went back to like a punk rock scene where it was more like, you know, drinking and drugs. And that's, that's unfortunately the one I grew up in. I was always strange the whole time, but I was, you know, me and Jt and some of our other pals. We were, we were the minority within the Misfit. The Misfit group.

[Colin]

So, I mean, we're only a few years out from the creation of Straight Edge as a concept.

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Colin]

So did you witness it kind of evolve from a song to a movement? And how did that movement hit your circle? How did it become more than just a song?

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah, I did witness that, and it was thanks to my cousin. My cousin was a little bit older than me. He played bass in a, in a band called Crucifixion of Christ. They never recorded, but he, he was a pretty severe guy during that era. He was kind of like the, the alpha wolf, I guess. So we were kind of following his lead on certain things.

[Colin]

Sure.

[Carl Buechner]

And, and in some ways we were being taught wrong, you know.

[Bo]

Sure.

[Carl Buechner]

But. But you know, he was always of that mindset and, and later on he went into the military, but he, he was playing Motorhead and Angry Samoans and Black Flag and all that stuff for me, as well as some of the, the metal like Accept and Metallica, all that stuff. So I, I was getting it all at once. But, but when it came to the Straight Edge stuff and when it came to, to all the music, like what I was gravitating to when I was younger was more of like the comedy oriented aspect of it, you know, like Black Flag TV party.

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Carl Buechner]

You know, or Angry Samoans, they Saved Hitler's Cock or the Meat Men, you know, like. Yeah, to me. And I've said this in other, in other interviews, but it's true, so it needs to be reiterated. Like, I was there at first, you know, just like I was into skating for fun, I was into music for fun, you know, like all those bands were south park or Family Guy or Simpsons before those things existed. It was like the most outrageous comedy you could get, you know.

[Colin]

Sure.

[Bo]

Wow.

[Carl Buechner]

But then after all these experiences that we just kind of went through the itemized list of.

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Carl Buechner]

I was starting to realize that you kind of had to take things seriously if, if you wanted to stay up, you know.

[Colin]

Boy, did you.

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah.

[Colin]

So in the skateboarding era, did you ever shredded up in any of the SCAN jams?

[Carl Buechner]

What we did was we would go to different competitions and they would have street style contests at a shop on the boulevard called Wayne's Bike Shop. And what was cool was every time there was a contest, they would bring pros in to judge.

[Colin]

Wow.

[Carl Buechner]

They had Bill Danforth and from Alva, John Lucero. They had Jim Murphy and those guys judge and like, granted, I'd get third or fourth, but at least I place pretty good.

[Bo]

That's beautiful.

[Carl Buechner]

And I remember I won. I won some wheels. I won Alva Speed Skins. And I saved them all these years.

[Bo]

Hell, yeah. You still got them.

[Carl Buechner]

I still got him.

[Bo]

That's awesome.

[Colin]

Wow.

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah, the only. Only trophy I ever won.

[Colin]

So you. Do you still. Do you play bass? Or at least you did at some point? Yeah.

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah.

[Colin]

You dabble with the bass at all today?

[Carl Buechner]

I haven't been writing recently because, you know, I'm doing vocals for. For three bands simultaneously. So, yeah, I'm more focused on. Well, you know, I. I have. And I play piano a little bit too, here and there.

[Colin]

Nice.

[Carl Buechner]

But, yeah, I'm primarily just focused on vocals and lyrics at this.

[Colin]

During this era, which is understandable. But I bring this up because you are not the original vocalist of Earth Crisis.

[Carl Buechner]

No, the original vocalist of Earth Crisis is the vocalist of Path Resistance. It's DJ Rose. And he's a. He's a famous tattoo artist in central New York. He's. He built a shop called Halo. He's done very, very well.

[Bo]

Is I. I've been to Halo without realizing that. That connection.

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah.

[Bo]

But I've certainly been there and it was like, oh, this is the Earth Crisis guys kind of thing. But I didn't know the exact connection. Connection.

[Carl Buechner]

That's right.

[Bo]

Carl. I believe I read that he came up with the name for Earth Crisis.

[Carl Buechner]

He did, And I think he based it off of. I think. I think he originally wanted to call it Youth Crisis, which would be a good name for somebody out there if it's not taken, you know.

[Bo]

No, he got it according, of course, to Wikipedia, from Steel Pulse record from the 80s. Yes.

[Carl Buechner]

And I think we just went with Steel with the Steel Pulse song instead. I was like, there's nothing wrong with just calling it Earth Crisis. And we actually have. We actually have come out on stage to the song Earth Crisis.

[Bo]

Hell yeah. That's very.

[Carl Buechner]

Which is a reggae song. And reggae and. And just so everybody knows. Like now, I think a lot of hardcore kids, they're just. It's just the thrashy punk. It's just the different versions of hard hardcore and metal. But like, back then, if you grew up in. In the early to mid-80s with this scene, you were going to see Fishbone and Bad Manners and Bim Scala Bim. You were probably also going to see, you know, GBH and Circle Jerks and Black Flag. But then if you got the chance, you'd be at, you know, later on you'd be at Testament and Entombed. You know, you would. You would see the punk and the skater kids at all the shows. So we would, you know, meet these different tribes. Because the metalheads were. The metalheads. Sure. You know, they were. And. And the punk guys that were older than us, they were the punk guys.

[Colin]

But it's all the. The greater underground.

[Carl Buechner]

Yes.

[Colin]

Yeah, it was where we thrive. We've thrived. And that's what the show is all about, is bringing it all. Bringing the whole underground together.

[Carl Buechner]

Exactly. And blending styles. And blending styles, you know, and. And that was a. I think. I don't know if it was unique to that era or not, but it was special because, I mean, you're meeting all different kinds of people, you're seeing all different kinds of bands. Nothing ever got stale. And. And you see that reflected when you look at the flyers, especially here from Syracuse in the early mid-90s. Like, you would have a band like Overcast, play with Stark Weather, play with like a youth crew band, play with like a Dark Edge band, you know?

[Colin]

Dark Edge.

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah.

[Bo]

Sick. Yeah. I think, I think to your point, Carl, it is kind of a moment in time because now the phrase mixed bill is even a thing.

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah.

[Bo]

Like, that shouldn't even exist. That's. That's a ridiculous.

[Colin]

Just a bill. It's just a bill. Nobody's the same. Nobody's the exact same.

[Bo]

It's really.

[Carl Buechner]

No, no.

[Colin]

So Framework is existing side by side with this original iteration of Earth Crisis. They beat you to the punch of being the first full vegan Straight Edge band. Right?

[Carl Buechner]

They did. It's very true.

[Colin]

But then you said, guys, what if we merge our powers together?

[Carl Buechner]

Well, we were. I mean, they were a full fledged band with two guitar players and a real drummer, you know, like, we were just like, giving it up. Okay. Bro, you're gonna have to play drums, right?

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Carl Buechner]

You know. Come on, man, you gotta sing these lyrics. I wrote them.

[Colin]

DJs out. DJs out. And framework essentially absorbs you.

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah, that's. Truthfully, what happened. DJ did not. He was not a big fan of my lyrics. He thought they were too over the top just to be direct, you know. And I was like, that, that's fine, you know? Yeah. And I remember I showed my friend down the lyrics and I showed some of my other friends, like, ah, I don't know, man.

[Colin]

Really? What. What were they so averse to?

[Carl Buechner]

I don't know. Like. Well, like, let's say a song like no Allegiance.

[Colin]

Yeah.

[Carl Buechner]

You know, let's say I mean, even by modern standards, it's. It's pretty unforgiving. But for me, music is always. It's an outlet, it's a way. It's a way to release that anger and vent it out, you know?

[Colin]

Totally.

[Carl Buechner]

That's like the psychology behind it for me. So I need it. And, you know, there I. I thought Straight Edge has been very. Had to. Been very disrespected by certain people. And no names were used. But I was calling people out.

[Colin]

I was.

[Carl Buechner]

I wanted to let them know how let down I was by. Not necessarily their choice, but by the disrespect that accompanied it.

[Colin]

Now, is this local? Is this low? You're saying people are just locally disrespecting, Disrespecting Straight Edge or on a worldwide scale?

[Carl Buechner]

Truthfully, both. But what hurt me more was, you know, I. I've. Like I said, I grew up in a punk scene as one of the few Straight Edge dudes. So I was getting along with everyone. I wasn't judging anybody for not being edge. Not at all. Never, you know, but when they would. But when certain people that were. Had stopped, they would suddenly, you know, see me as the villain. I'm like, where's this coming from? This is bizarre. But it was because they wanted to, like, you know, link up harder with those other people. So they thought it would be cool to dis, which was not very cool. Not necessary either.

[Bo]

Yeah, we found out where the straight edge aspect came from for you. Where did veganism come around? Because I. It must have been literally cutting edge, mind the pun at the time, because vegetarianism was obviously a thing, even with a lot of the 80s punk and hardcore bands and just in the cultural zeitgeist. Where did veganism. How did that reach you?

[Carl Buechner]

We have always got to give credit where credit is due. And, you know, Colin, you like listed all the. Some of the biggest Edge bands at the time when I was young. So we gotta do the same for the people that were pushing animal rights, veganism, vegetarianism, like conflict, especially concrete socks. Youth of today instead. Like, all those guys were on top of that.

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Carl Buechner]

And they were doing.

[Colin]

But are these vegan bands? Because Youth of Today, the Go Vegetarian shirt is like the. That's their kind of marquee item.

[Bo]

Right.

[Colin]

Who went hardest with vegan before you?

[Carl Buechner]

Probably Statement Vegan, Reich and Raid. But they existed simultaneously alongside us.

[Colin]

Totally.

[Bo]

Raid.

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah, Raid above the law. Check it out if you missed it. It's fantastic. Great, great riffs, great lyrics.

[Colin]

So did music bring you to veganism?

[Carl Buechner]

No, truthfully, it came like, that was definitely encouraging. But for me, it came from my grandmother. My grandmother was vegetarian for probably 40, 50 years.

[Bo]

Holy cow.

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah. And my aunt, then my mom, then my little sister, they all went vegetarian. And my sister would get the pita stuff, and I'd be like, ah, steak is delicious. This is. You know, you're overreacting to all this.

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Colin]

And they're gonna clip you saying, steak is delicious, by the way.

[Carl Buechner]

No, that's okay. That's okay. Because we're dealing with reality, you know, that's right. And that. And that's where I was coming from at that time, in my mid teens, you know, and my sister's like, no, this is. This is what's going on is not right. And she was showing me all that stuff. I was like, this is terrible. They take the calf away from the mother. I don't want anything to do with this. So, you know, I became straight edge at 16, although I had, you know, never really had any interest in dabbling with drugs or alcohol or smoking. And I certainly didn't want to do anything that involved cruelty towards animals. So as soon as I saw those images, I was like, oh, I'm out. I'm not. I'm not doing this. And I.

[Colin]

And I became, from day one, for the Animals, vegan.

[Carl Buechner]

Yes. Yeah. It's never. I've never been a health nut or an exercise fiend or anything. I should be. But, like, for me, it's, you know, it's just purely for the animals. Yeah, Vegan, for the animals. Exactly.

[Bo]

Yeah. And then.

[Colin]

Beautiful.

[Bo]

Let me ask you this, because I want to make sure that we're reconnecting with your latest project with the book along this time. Were you writing, like. Were you a journaler? Were you writing short stories when you were young? Did you have an early interest in creating?

[Colin]

Because you sound like a poet. I'll tell you what.

[Bo]

Yeah, we'll get to your use of thesaurus is in a little bit, but.

[Carl Buechner]

Well, here's the thing. Like, for me, the first interview I ever did was with Chad Rapper from Chicago. He's an awesome drummer. I know.

[Bo]

I know Chad very well. I've known him since I was a young teenager.

[Carl Buechner]

Okay, well, we love that dude. Did he ever tell you about the fight in his living room?

[Bo]

Probably.

[Carl Buechner]

Okay, ask him about it. I want him to tell the story.

[Bo]

I will text him about that after this.

[Carl Buechner]

But I'll keep it short. I'll give you the short version. We were staying at his house. I think it was on the all out War, the Firestorm tour. And he's sitting in a chair, I'm sitting on the couch. My roadies start start fighting, literally fighting. And they're grappling on the floor. And I was reading the newspaper. He goes, carl, Carl. I go, don't worry, they'll stop. And they didn't stop.

[Colin]

How was the newspaper?

[Carl Buechner]

It's fine. You're just catching up on the day's events.

[Colin]

You got it.

[Carl Buechner]

And I was like, come on, guys.

[Colin]

Come on, please, guys, I'm reading.

[Carl Buechner]

And then they stopped. And I guarantee, I guarantee you, he thought we were all utterly insane after that. But anyways, getting back to the point, he did a zine at the time called Persist. So the first Earth craziness interview ever done was with a Chicago zine called Persist. And we were, we were talking about all those bands that you named at the beginning, Colin, and. And he's like, so what are you into? I was like, I'm into skateboarding. I'm into Lord of the Rings, I'm into Star Wars. I go, it's the Holy Grail. You know, it's. I'm going to love this stuff forever. And I have loved it forever. And on some levels it inspired me to write. And I always wrote short stories. I always journaled the tours. I've never released them.

[Bo]

Oh, man. Now hold on a second. That is. I mean, you have it right over your left shoulder is the Rollins, like the COVID of the Rollins book. One of my favorite things I've ever read, or especially his audio book of reading and listening to is. Is his book in the van that.

[Colin]

I think I would die for an earthquake.

[Bo]

That would be incredible.

[Carl Buechner]

It exists. It hasn't been, you know, ironed out, but all those journals exist. Like Firestorm Tour, All Out War Tour, Destroy the Machines. I would, I would write them down like haikus. Just like whatever. The craziest thing that happened that day.

[Bo]

Yeah, yeah.

[Colin]

Well, let's get into it.

[Bo]

Get it out.

[Colin]

Before, before we do that, I want to ask about the Ren.

[Carl Buechner]

Great question.

[Colin]

Because the wrenches are now this universally known symbol of straight edge. It's like almost bigger than the band itself. Well, you got Scott Sparks tatting him on his face as he's writing about shitty rap music. So they're bigger than hardcore, they're bigger than straighters. Tell me about where the Wrenches came from and how early did they were they created?

[Carl Buechner]

Okay, I'll keep this short, but the Earth first logo. Earth first are the group for any young guys or girls that are listening, that haven't really read or heard too much about them. They're a group that would go out in the woods and try and stop logging or mining companies from clear cutting or strip mining or doing things that were destructive towards the natural world and disrupting wildlife's habitats. So these guys were going out there and sabotaging machinery and preventing roads from being put into wilderness areas. Like they were going all out. And their logo was a stone hammer and a wrench. And I thought that was awesome.

[Colin]

And Judge already took hammers.

[Carl Buechner]

Judge already took the hammers. I was like, we need something. We need something. And I came from a blue collar background and I had these radical. We all did. We had these radical. Which we still do. Animal rights, animal liberation views. I was like, how about a wrench to realign and a monkey wrench to sabotage? We'll put them together and overlay them. And. And that. And that's pretty much the origin of that.

[Bo]

Steven, clip it. Wow.

[Colin]

Beautiful.

[Carl Buechner]

Wow.

[Colin]

So you kind of skip the demo phase here. You go straight to the All Out War ep.

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Colin]

This is your debut. It's. It's kind of crazy how solidified the identity of Earth Crisis is right off the bat and how most of these guys are still in the band.

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah, I mean, you think. I mean, I'm sure you see it with, with both your bands, you know, when you're out on the road, it's like we are all, all of us are very lucky to maintain a strong nucleus.

[Bo]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Colin]

I mean there's damn near impossible.

[Carl Buechner]

No, there's. There's guys that have od, there's guys that have been killed, accidents or a suicide or these horrible internal feuds stabbing each other. All kinds of crazy stuff. You know, like that is more the norm from like my era than five guys that stick together. So we, we're very fortunate. And granted, Mike left, but Mike maintained his position in Path to Resistance.

[Colin]

Right, right.

[Carl Buechner]

You know, and granted, Ben left, but he had a job calling in California and he went for the, for the opportunity and he's a nutritionist and he's been very successful out there. He loves it.

[Bo]

So is he a vegan nutritionist?

[Carl Buechner]

I believe he is. He's. I believe he's fully vegan. Yes.

[Colin]

Achieving.

[Bo]

That's incredible. Amazing.

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah. So. And then just for the record, and Eric was not in the original lineup, but Eric, Earth Crisis, Freya, Path Resistance, Eric Edwards. He, he was in two vegan straight edge bands before he joined Earth Crisis and he would tour with us as a Roadie. And we would play with both those bands. And we're going to have to have Steve put the names up on the screen because I'm blanking right now for one of them was Cross Section. I know that.

[Colin]

Perfect.

[Bo]

Good.

[Carl Buechner]

Now.

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Colin]

So what is the reception to all at War Within Syracuse, Outside of Syracuse? And how quickly did you kind of guys figure out that this was working and less of a Framework side project and more this is it?

[Carl Buechner]

The response was shock and horror because Framework was very melodic and uplifting.

[Bo]

Oh.

[Carl Buechner]

And my lyrics were. I felt they needed to be as aggressive as they were. Yeah. And, yeah, that was that. I mean, like, people split. Split up into teams. Pro Earth Crisis, or let's Throw a Dead Mouse at them when they come to town, you know?

[Bo]

Oh, my God.

[Colin]

So is that happening pretty early? The Dead Mouse and yogurt?

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah, I think so.

[Colin]

Wow.

[Bo]

Wow.

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah.

[Colin]

Okay. But I said we'll get into that a little later maybe.

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah, but. But yeah, but I said. I was like, okay. And you touched on it earlier. You're like, Straight Edge worldwide. And here's the thing. I dearly love all of the founding fathers from the original era of Straight Edge. I love their music. We've toured with them, we've played with them, their friends. They. They gave me everything I have and everything that I've tried to pass on. But what was missing with that first incarnation of it was like solidified guidelines. You know what I mean?

[Bo]

Yes.

[Carl Buechner]

You know, so some people would say.

[Colin]

The don't fuck was. Has been. You know, it was a little iffy in there. People got questions. Caffeine. Where do you stand on caffeine?

[Carl Buechner]

It's. It's not necessary for me, but I'm not against it, you know. Okay.

[Colin]

Because it's necessary for me. So I don't know. I gotta do what I gotta do.

[Bo]

And let me ask you. Let me throw. I'm gonna throw a quick one at you. You mentioned the founding fathers of. Of that kind. I'm gonna hit you with. I'm jumping ahead a little bit. Colin, I want your Rushmore of those bands. Your personal favorite of those bands. We'll have more Rushmores later, but I want to know this one.

[Carl Buechner]

Okay. Well, we have to give all love and respect to teen idols. A minor threat, of course.

[Colin]

Great.

[Carl Buechner]

Of course. But musically, lyrically, stage presence, because I also got to see them, and I did not get to see those earlier ones. I will say Ray Capo. I'll say Mike Judge and Dave Smalley.

[Bo]

Dude.

[Carl Buechner]

I mean, I. I Would take DYS over all his other bands. And I do appreciate Dag Nasty and yeah, you know, the Punk Rock Academy Fight Band, you know, all that stuff. I like all that. But like, I don't know, you can go back and listen to those records and like, like the anger in his, in his voice and I mean, you can't match it, you know.

[Bo]

No. And there's something all, all of from like Negative Effects and Last Rights and, and Slapshot through SSD and dys. There's something that they had that. For my money, no other. I'm a huge early Boston hardcore guy. For my money, no other bands like Judge kind of did it and, and I actually wanted to ask was the, the more hard minded and, and more aggressively lyrics Judge, did that appeal to you right away? Were you like when the New York hardcore, when the 7 inch came out, the judge 7 inch came out. Were you like, there we go, like Fed up hits and you go, yeah, those are the lyrics. That's what I was looking for.

[Carl Buechner]

Yes. Yeah, because that's the thing. It's like at that time there was like kind of like two camps of straight edge, you know, There was like the suburban guys that were like, hey, I don't want to do drugs. I want to have. I want to be a successful athlete. I want to be successful in all my future endeavors of school or business or whatever. But we were in the city, so we were like seeing the devastation, you know what I mean? We were seeing like the drug sales and our friends from the punk scene becoming full blown alcoholics or, or overdosing, you know, or, you know, just, just all the vileness, you know.

[Colin]

Sure.

[Carl Buechner]

Like with the street crime look, oh great, that car got broken into. Oh great, that shop owner got ripped off at gunpoint. And half the time it was for people to get quick cash to buy drugs, you know. Yeah. And when, when, when people say that, you know, when you watch some of these documentaries. Oh, the crack epidemic, dude, they were not kidding. That was a like drug plague. Like it was everywhere. And you would see people like nodding out on the sidewalk and staggering around and.

[Bo]

Well, and especially in, in Rust belt cities when the industry leaves, like you were saying before, when factories are closing and these solid jobs that have been around for a while, that's what's left. That's what's left. Yeah, yeah.

[Carl Buechner]

And people were, you know, people were just, you know, kind of left stunned by the situation they found themselves in. Wow. I got us off track. But yeah, dude, I mean, birth crisis.

[Colin]

Is your response to that. So it's all one track. You know, this is, this is your coping mechanism. Mechanism through that. How long did it take post all out war. You're established. You're playing shows for young hardcore. You to see and notice young hardcore kids rising and being straight edge and being vegan activists and whatnot.

[Carl Buechner]

The environmental thing and the animal rights thing was very real for us. Syracuse is on the shores of Onondaga Lake. And Onondaga Lake was surrounded by factories that were putting toxic waste and mercury into it. So we would see, you know, a lake in the summer that's a short bike ride away that you could have put your hand in because it was so polluted and poisoned.

[Colin]

Just some Simpsons Springfield, straight up toxic plant type.

[Carl Buechner]

He's doing bad slips out of it.

[Colin]

Yeah.

[Carl Buechner]

You know, wow.

[Bo]

Wow.

[Carl Buechner]

It was that bad, you know, and you just see all the, the smoke and the steam pouring into the sky. And right around that time or a little bit before that time, you know, we'd watch on the news about a neighborhood called Love Canal in Buffalo. A development was built over top of a toxic waste site. And there was radiation leak from a power plant in Pennsylvania that was just a couple hours away. Also there was the toxic tower in Binghamton, a City maybe 45 minutes south of us. And it had, you know, some type of contaminant that they had to bring all the people out of it. And they didn't even know how to demolish the building. So it was just standing there.

[Colin]

So there really was an earth crisis.

[Carl Buechner]

Literally. We were not kidding. Yeah.

[Colin]

If the response to all that war was shock and horror, they had another thing coming with the next one. Because right before the All Out War tour starts, which. Who was on that.

[Carl Buechner]

It was us and this awesome band from Vermont. Champion.

[Bo]

Okay.

[Colin]

Oh, another champion early on.

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah. And we were out on the road.

[Colin]

I mean, the better champion now.

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Carl Buechner]

And we were out on the road with those guys and. Yeah, it was pretty tough. That tour was tough. We recorded Firestorm on that tour.

[Colin]

Right on that tour in Cleveland with the late, great Bill Corkey. The Firestorm EP would come to life.

[Carl Buechner]

Yep, yep.

[Colin]

And you signed with Victory. Tell me about that.

[Carl Buechner]

Well, we played. We played in Detroit and I. And I will tell this story. I told the story before, but it's. It was a testament to how. To our tenacity. Okay. We got the show in Detroit and we were saying yes to everything because we wanted to be out, we wanted to play. So we took my Scott, we took my guitar player Scott's Girlfriend's car. This car had no dashboard lights. It had a hole in the floor, it had a hole in the muffler, and it had a hole in the gas tank. Perfect. Yeah. And no license plates.

[Colin]

Perfect.

[Carl Buechner]

So we took some old license plates that her dad had hanging up, like, for display in the garage, and we put them on the car with coat hanger wire. And I took a little flashlight and I held it in my teeth, and I drove at night because you couldn't see how fast you were going. And if you filled the gas tank up past a certain point, it would spill out onto the ground.

[Colin]

Oh, perfect.

[Bo]

So that's how you'd know. Yeah.

[Carl Buechner]

Oh, it's full time to go, guys. Yeah. So we're driving along and we're going to Detroit. We get to Buffalo, and the. The. I think the muffler went out. So we skid.

[Colin]

The one with the holes went out.

[Bo]

I can't believe it.

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah. So we skid off the highway and we just happened to pull into a garage. It was at night, though, and, like, we'd given ourselves, you know, a day to get there. And we ended up staying with. With Dennis, our drummer, who is not our drummer yet. Mike was the drummer.

[Colin]

Right.

[Carl Buechner]

And I remember we played Jenga with Scott Vogel, and Dennis, and I think his brothers just had, like, a normal night.

[Colin]

And how crazy is Scott Vogel at this time?

[Carl Buechner]

No, at that time, he was still normal.

[Bo]

Okay, Was he. Was he like, Scott Vogel? Like. Do you know what I mean? Had he. Was he in bands already or was this pretty.

[Carl Buechner]

He was in Slugfest. We played with him the next day in Detroit. Yeah, but he. He wasn't out of his mind yet. He's still. He used. His stage presence is always the same.

[Colin]

But, oh, the best.

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah, but he. He's, you know, he was still relatively hinged. I mean, I'm not anymore either, but that's.

[Colin]

None of us are. That's why we're here.

[Carl Buechner]

That's right. So anyways, we went to. We. We went to Detroit. We bounced over. I think we bounced over black ice or something. I remember sliding sighted on the highway. We pull off and we get into Detroit. We've never seen anything this bad yet. Like, every store had, like, bulletproof glass, like, that thick.

[Bo]

Oh, yeah, store.

[Carl Buechner]

What would you want? You know, they're talking to you through, like, the little microphone. We're at the stoplight. Hookers are reaching the car. Way to go, baby. It's like, whoa. Like, we've never encountered anything that crazy, right? We get to the show like, damn.

[Colin]

Syracuse is kind of awesome.

[Carl Buechner]

It was, dude. It was better than Detroit of the early 90s, I'll tell you that much.

[Colin]

Sure.

[Carl Buechner]

So anyways, we get in and we play the show and it goes really well. And Chad Rapper happened to be there and he went back and told Tony, he's like, you got to see the span. These guys are. These guys are over the top.

[Bo]

Wow.

[Carl Buechner]

And. And that's how he got signed to Firestorm.

[Colin]

So tell me about Victory before that, like. Like the nine. The Victory is kind of their legacy is defined by the 90s, by records like Destroy the Machine, Satisfaction, et cetera. What was it before that? What. What made you want to sign with them?

[Carl Buechner]

I mean, we loved all the stuff on Tang. We love New Age, we loved Revelation. But we love Victory most of all because Victory put out avant garde stuff like Iceberg or Integrity or I think they probably did confront, you know, all that, all that stuff. And we're like, well, I think we'd fit in good there. And Tony had been in a strange band called Even Score.

[Bo]

Yep.

[Carl Buechner]

Which was great. I mean, you know, this is all probably just local history for you.

[Bo]

It is, but a lot of people don't know that. And. And also I wanted to say, for anybody listening, any of my Chicago heads out there, Chad Rapper, the guy who keeps coming up, he was in a band called Haunted Life, Expired Youth, One Foot in the Graves. He. He's been around for ages. And he. He even once told me when I was a teenager, if I was still straight edge for. In five years, he would buy me dinner. He never did.

[Carl Buechner]

That's awesome.

[Colin]

Chad, if you're hearing this, the bill has come due. Bo is starving.

[Carl Buechner]

So did you just made it back from Australia?

[Bo]

Yeah. Did you meet Tony on that tour?

[Carl Buechner]

I think God's truth is I don't remember when I met him, but I loved Even Score. I loved it.

[Colin]

It had on that tour, you record Firestorm right in the beginning and then you have this conversation about Victory. So you've got this shelved three song EP that would really define your entire life by these three songs. And then he hears it and is like, yeah, this is cool, I'll put it out. Or is he like, holy fuck, I gotta put this out? Please, God.

[Carl Buechner]

I think we were signed by then. I think Victory sent us there. Actually, if memory serves correct. And it. And it might not. Scott is on top of all the. The dates of everything, but, like, I'm pretty sure we got signed first. And when the 7 inch came out, Eden's demise was the fourth song. I think it was Forcing the Flames. Firestorm or Firestorm Forging the Flames, Unseen Holocaust and Eden's Demise. And we experimented with a lot of very slow tempos on that record that weren't really what was going on in hardcore at the time. And I think that's. That's one of the things that made us stand out, because I was like, if we stir some metal into the mix, it's going to make the hardcore far more vicious. So let's. And let's slow it down.

[Bo]

I was going to say. Colin, you said, like, defining. Defining his life. It also, like, changed the way people looked at a guitar. What if we just did this?

[Colin]

What if I went and just did that?

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah, if we turn the guitar itself into a percussive instrument.

[Colin]

Yeah, perfect.

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Colin]

So what is. What. Tell me about writing and recording that. Tell me. And then most importantly, tell me about the response to Firestorm, because it was like, this is a controversial song in 93. It turns out it was.

[Carl Buechner]

And I was in college and I was going off and on, and my original goal was to be a history teacher or a history professor.

[Bo]

Beautiful.

[Carl Buechner]

So I was just reading everything voraciously. And during that era, the History Channel was. Was pretty real. Like, it was documentaries. It wasn't just, like, hillbillies killing alligators like it is now. You know what I mean? Like, you, like, you would watch it and you would absorb, like, really interesting facts about how the cities or the states or the nations had evolved and the different conflicts and inventions. Like, it was incredible. And. And I'd get names from that, and then I would go get books. And I was. I was reading about, you know, Earth first and the Animal Liberation Front and Greenpeace and the Black Panthers and all these different groups. And I was like, wow, these. These guys, to some, maybe they're terrorists, to other, they're freedom fighters. But this is. This is fascinating, you know, so. And a lot of that stuff, like, unseen Holocaust, again, we're like. Like central New York is. Is surrounded by massive reservations. There's the. The Oneidas and the Onondagas. And I think they're all part. Forgive me if I'm not pronouncing it correctly, but Hadesani or the Iroquois. So, I mean, those guys were coming to shows too, you know, Right?

[Colin]

Totally.

[Carl Buechner]

And I was like, wow, that is crazy. Like, right now there's people that are. Are living in harmony with nature, like in South America, like how everybody used to live or how these people around us on reservations once Lived and roads are getting put into their land. It's getting clear cut. So that. That's what inspired Unseen Holocaust, you know, and the stuff that was going on with the radiation leaks and the toxic tower and the pollution on the lake, that's what inspired his demise. Yeah. And like, you know, people falling away from Straight Edge and us kind of in some ways feeling like the last man standing. That's what inspired Forge in the Flames and for Firestorm, you know, the scene factualizing and. And some guys going into the drug game and other guys saying, no fucking way, not ever. You know. So all that stuff, all that stuff was about history, but it was a mixture of what was going on around us in the world and what we literally were experiencing ourselves.

[Colin]

I mean, it still is Unseen Holocaust is echoes the same of the Palestinian genocide happening right now. It's like, it's unfortunately as relevant as ever.

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah. And people are talking about like, you know, moving everybody out and resettling and I mean, yeah, it is, It's Manifest destiny.

[Colin]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Bo]

Let me ask you, was there. I get the sense that the Straight Edge thing as. As I became familiar with Earth Crisis, especially in these beginning. The. The first two releases, I get the sense that the Straight Edge thing was like, well, of course you're Straight Edge.

[Carl Buechner]

We're.

[Bo]

We're sensical human beings. And then the like, the like. But like we're gonna get like. The controversial part is the veganism aspect. Like the. Almost like the catch. Because I'm sure veganism at this time wasn't very popular as. As a lifestyle. Were there. Were there songs that were overtly only about Straight Edge versus songs that were only about veganism?

[Carl Buechner]

Yes. And while we're on the topic, I want to give credit to Statement Raid and Vegan Reich. We did not mention Vegan Reich earlier and they had the name Vegan in their title.

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Carl Buechner]

And Sean has always been very kind and helpful and I think that first seven as they did is great. And I. And that was one of the things that we did different too because if you looked at the biggest bands back then, Uniform Choice, Token Entry, Verbal Assault or Vegan Reich or whoever else they were singing. Naked Reagan Chicago. They would sing in a nice clear voice like. Like the Fu's for Boston. The biggest bands all say, you know. So like, I think it was just easier for people to. It was more palate, you know. Sure. But I was like, no, we're gonna scream Hard as, you know, and Bulldog, you're doing backups. Eric, you're doing backups. You know, before Path Resistance with earthquakes, everyone had a backup mic.

[Bo]

Wow.

[Carl Buechner]

You know, Dennis, we want you to sing too. You know what I mean? Like. Like scream like you're dying. You know, Scream. Scream like we're charging over a hill.

[Colin]

So is Firestorm at this point where you see things really pick up?

[Carl Buechner]

Yes.

[Colin]

Okay.

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah. That's when we started getting offers for, like, legit tours.

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Colin]

The one thing we've heard nothing but, like, in the Josta episode, he tells us about a very early Earth Crisis hate read tour that they were offered, that they just couldn't believe that they were offered. Like, it was. It was this kind of big rite of passage. Like, wow, we're doing an Earth Crisis tour. This is incredible.

[Carl Buechner]

And I've heard you say, Colin, that, like, no, don't be a demo guy. But I will say under the knife, when that came out, I was like, this is perfect.

[Colin]

It is perfect.

[Bo]

I love that perspective.

[Carl Buechner]

Yes. It's a flawless record.

[Colin]

Speaking of Josta, could you tell me about the Josta Pygmy Village?

[Carl Buechner]

All right. He was a kid. He was a teen, and he booked. He booked Earth Crisis at the Sports palace in Connecticut. And he said, you guys can stay with me, you know, after the show. And I was like, okay, super. So we played the show at Sports Palace. It was great. I get to his house and his mom's like, why don't you come help me weed the garden? I was like, okay.

[Colin]

And how old is he at this time? Because he's been. He's booking shows at 13, 14 years old.

[Carl Buechner]

He was a kid, and his mom, I think, basically thought I was a kid. So she's like, having me help her with chores. Like, all righty.

[Bo]

It's the Straight Edge curse. She. You looked younger than you were.

[Carl Buechner]

I stopped pulling weeds with his mom in the garden, and when we left, he paid us and he goes, let me fill up the gas tank for you. I go, you got to be kidding me, dude. You're going to fill up our gas tank? Like, we'd never been treated like royalty before. Don't fill it up.

[Colin]

It'll spill.

[Carl Buechner]

No, no, no. We had a real vehicle like that.

[Colin]

Okay.

[Carl Buechner]

This was like two years, three years later.

[Colin]

Good, good.

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah. Oh, the other part of that story is I crashed that car on the way back. I fell asleep at the wheel and told it. Yeah, yeah. So I woke up and we were trying to stay awake. I was like, okay, let's sing Gilligan's Island. So we're just singing Gilgames and over Again. And I remember I was like, what are all those sparks? And I looked over and I fell asleep. And we were scraping the median. Oh, gosh. And I sat on the brakes and we spun and hit the wall, so.

[Bo]

And you were going. And the skipper too.

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah. So it worked for a while, but not. Not all the way back to Syracuse.

[Colin]

So tell me about this pygmy village.

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah, okay. So, yeah, we had a van by then. And he goes, I want to show you that. He goes, oh, the Shamrock shakes at McDonald's are vegan. I'm like, no, they are not, dude. And I should have known he was a prankster at that point, you know?

[Colin]

Did anybody believe him?

[Carl Buechner]

No, no, I believed. But he's like, we've heard of, like, the Jackson Whites. Have you guys ever heard about that stuff?

[Bo]

No.

[Colin]

No.

[Carl Buechner]

Okay, well, supposedly in New Jersey, there's some area in the Pine Barrens, some mountainous region where there's a group of families that have just kind of inbred. Inbred. Inbred. It's probably like a legend, you know? Anyways, he said there was something like that. He was just driving us through the woods. I think it's this way. I think it's way. I think you could fit between those trees. I don't know why we fell for it, but we did. He got us.

[Colin]

This little kid is guiding you into this fake village in the woods.

[Carl Buechner]

But he just booked us a beautiful show. You know what I mean?

[Colin]

He had no choice but to believe.

[Carl Buechner]

We just trusted him at that point. He'd been good to us. What?

[Colin]

A little. That's incredible.

[Bo]

Back to you.

[Colin]

Did he eventually just go, nah, I'm just kidding.

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah, yeah.

[Bo]

Okay, back. Back to your point. After Firestorm came out and you asked, did. Did. Did they notice it start to pick up when I have talked to people like Shane Merrill or Jim Grimes or Chad Rapper, like the old heads, for me, from Chicago, even though Chad, or I'm sorry, Jim wasn't from Chicago, but I've always known him as a Chicago guy. Earth Crisis was like, to Joss's point, the band, like the biggest, most like pro serious band at the time. And that's in Chicago, which is pretty far from Syracuse. Were you noticing that everywhere? And how far were you going at that time?

[Carl Buechner]

I mean, the big bands, truthfully, were slap shot and sick of it all and Agnostic Front and Biohazard like those, but we were probably the air quotes biggest band in our age group. You know what I mean?

[Colin]

You were on Roadrunner yet?

[Carl Buechner]

No. Not yet, but all those other bands. Look at Biohazard. They were, I think Warner Brothers and Sick of it all was huge. And they still are. But, I mean, I. I can't remember which album came out at that time, but I was like, how could they ever top Blood Sweat, no Tears? And they kept somehow topping it. It was incredible, you know?

[Colin]

Yeah, they did a couple times.

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah.

[Bo]

So how far were you going? How far were you touring out on Firestorm? Like, 93, 94. We.

[Carl Buechner]

We did one. That. That one tour where we. Where we recorded Firestorm was so poorly booked, we were literally drinking melted peanut butter out of a jar in the van in Arizona. Like, that was our food. Like, we. Like, that's when we started resorting to, like, shoplifting for food on the road. It was that bad. Yeah.

[Colin]

What, touring as a vegan in 1993?

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah.

[Colin]

How dark is that?

[Carl Buechner]

It was an ordeal. Okay.

[Colin]

Were you just deathly skinny the entire time?

[Carl Buechner]

There are some. There are some pretty wild photos of how, like, I was unbelievably thin.

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Carl Buechner]

And. And we were just not getting paid either. Like, I remember literally splitting a tostada at four ways on one of those tours. Yeah, it was crazy. And, you know, I felt bad about, you know, if. I mean, if we didn't get a. If we didn't get paid, we would have to steal stuff from the club, right. And then take it to, you know, a music store or pawn shop. Take the wedges then, you know. Yeah.

[Bo]

Hey, you gotta eat.

[Colin]

You gotta eat, man.

[Bo]

So are you. Are you, like, rolling into town and looking up, like, I don't even know because Whole Foods didn't exist. Right? Like, are you looking up mom and Pop, like, stores?

[Carl Buechner]

Are you.

[Bo]

Are you trying to do as whatever fast food was available at the time? Like, I can't. I can't imagine using payphones and atlases to tour, let alone worrying about where I'm going to eat.

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah, right. You know? Yeah. We were using. We were using paper atlases. We were making calls from pay phones. There was no cell phones. There was no laptops. We would go into the grocery store and everyone would have a mission, like, steal some food.

[Colin]

You get the Scott, you get the peanut butter. Eric, you get the jelly.

[Bo]

And let me ask you, was there. Was there fast food you could eat that or were you ethically anti fast food at the time?

[Carl Buechner]

We were ethically and still are. But, like, I mean, Taco Bell sometimes was the only place that we should go.

[Bo]

You know, you gotta eat. You gotta eat.

[Colin]

Cup of beans. Brother.

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah. I mean, we did what we could.

[Colin]

We can destroy the. Destroy the machines with the. Once we're by these beans real quick.

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah.

[Colin]

So you. You're touring hard on Firestorm? You mentioned Sick of It All Biohazard Slap shot. Do you. Are you in communication with these bands at all? Do you know them?

[Carl Buechner]

We played with Sick of It all and Ithaca, and they were awesome, and they were super nice. We.

[Colin]

Yeah. Like, are any of these bands like, damn, you guys rock. We gotta take you out. And are any of them, like, those wacko vegan guys from Syracuse? I don't know about them.

[Carl Buechner]

Right. Yes. And that was real. And I'll tell you what happened. We started playing New York City, and Rabies met us from Warzone. And he's like. He. He was like Johnny Apples. He do. He went around. He's like, you know, we played with Earth Crisis. We hung out with those guys. They're totally nice. So he basically was like the liaison. And he was, you know, singing our praises to everybody down there. And then that was kind of the icebreaker.

[Colin]

And his word is law. To many, especially at that time, putting.

[Bo]

Over Earth Crisis is pretty incredible.

[Colin]

That's a good war, man. That's real.

[Bo]

He saw the wrenches and he was like, okay, that'll do.

[Carl Buechner]

All that'll work, right? And he. You know, and later on, we. We played shows with them in Europe. We were on the same boss. And, yeah, he was definitely a strong supporter. And I remember he was. He was doing an interview in a book that got put in a book, and this girl was, like, trying to bait him against us for some reason. And I don't think she. I think it was kind of like old school, ver. New school, you know, that. I think that was her angle. And he. And in that book, you know, Polly. Polly Storm, Paulie Edge has that book, and he showed me the. The excerpt and he. He was like, no, those guys. Those guys are good guys. So he really helped us. And that's how we met Roger and then his brother Freddy and everybody else, of course.

[Colin]

It's crazy to think about old school versus new school at that time being bands that are 10 years apart.

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Colin]

Those are. Those are contemporaries now.

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

[Colin]

So 95 rolls around big year, and the people are out there begging. They're saying, earth Crisis, please give us an album. When will there be an album? And you've been destroying machines your whole life. You figured it was only fitting that it's time to do this on a professional basis with a Perfect piece of music. I would. I would call it one of the great hardcore debuts, LPs in history.

[Bo]

Crazy think. Wow.

[Colin]

Right?

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah.

[Colin]

Debut, man. Yeah, it's a. It's a. Detroit Machines is an era defining, landmark record full of incredible metallic riffs, incredible lyrics. Tell me about writing it, recording it, and the kind of critical and audience reception at the time.

[Carl Buechner]

We basically took a lot of the elements from Firestorm, like some of those slower tempos, the, you know, the lower vocals, the. The aggressive lyrics. And I said, let's. Let's take it up a notch. Let's take it up a couple notches.

[Colin]

On what comes next and how involved with you are the musical aspect of Earth Crisis at this time.

[Carl Buechner]

I was definitely a big part of the arrangements.

[Bo]

Okay, cool. Yeah.

[Colin]

Because the insane step up in musicality and technicality from. Even from Firestorm to Destroy Machines is like. It's wild.

[Bo]

Yes.

[Colin]

It's a big leap. Were you influential to that and were you just kind of in awe of what the riffs were these guys were coming up with?

[Carl Buechner]

Well, here's the thing. Like, everything that we like, originally, like, like we said at the beginning of the interview, like, I was a bass player, Birth Crisis. So I was writing the music.

[Colin]

Right.

[Carl Buechner]

You know, and Ecoside was probably the song I was most proud of.

[Colin]

Sure.

[Carl Buechner]

And I was like, this is what we need. Temples like these riffs, like these, you know, let the. Let the drums breathe. Make sure it has that halftime bounce. And. And I would work on the arrangements with Ben and Scott and. And Bulldog. And I'd be like, right there. This is a driving double bass beat, you know, Right there is the china. You know what I mean?

[Colin]

That's cool. And you're producing, essentially.

[Carl Buechner]

Right. I was like, we're gonna have staccato vocal cadences over this part.

[Bo]

Awesome.

[Carl Buechner]

And. And then when we do it live, we're all doing the backups, you know.

[Colin]

Yeah, yeah.

[Carl Buechner]

So we. We were. We were writing as a unit and.

[Colin]

And perform, but then somebody shows up with. And you go, God, you did it.

[Carl Buechner]

Right. And, you know, again, I always want to take the opportunity to give credit where credit's due. You know, we were musically influenced by Believer, the Dimensions album. We were musically influenced by Conviction. Right. We were musically influenced by Zero Tolerance and Slayer. You know, I love south of Heaven. That's probably my. My favorite Slayer album of all time.

[Colin]

Beautiful. So all these things would go on to there.

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah, they're ingredients, you know.

[Colin]

Yeah. Ingredients is a good way to put it.

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah.

[Bo]

Let me ask.

[Carl Buechner]

We had Our own. I mean, we had our own recipe, but those were other ingredients.

[Bo]

Let me ask you about my personal favorite song and your, your opener. The last few times I've seen Earth Crisis recently, talk about the discipline real quick.

[Carl Buechner]

Okay, cool. Yeah. Again, using a guitar as a percussive instrument.

[Bo]

Very much.

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah. That's what I tried to do with that song. And we started to touch on this earlier is I wanted Strays to be clearly defined as to what it meant to me and Scott and Ian and Dennis and Eric. Like, this to us is not a phase, this is not a chapter. This is the story. And the story is if we abstain from drugs and alcohol and smoking and promiscuity, we are going to be sweeping obstacles out of our path. We're going to achieve our goals quicker and faster and we're going to be able to see things with a type of clarity that other people can't. So I wanted to present it to the world what it meant to us, which is it's a lifetime commitment to, to stay loyal to those ideas.

[Bo]

The reason I even brought it up and, and we'll, we'll get there, but on a later record. You have ultra militants and being a young straight edge kid, I wanted ultra militants to be about straight edge. Come to find it isn't right. So I was, I was always curious about defining each thing because I would, I would assume in, in, in, you know, some people's mind, maybe your mind, that they're straight edge and veganism are kind of one in the same.

[Colin]

I, I kind of like in, in Syracuse and all of Europe. I think they're one thing.

[Bo]

The fourth X is that, you know, whereas, like, you know, for me, kind of religion is kind of that way for me. I think that that's, that's part of it for me, you know, and I, I'm just, I, I was always curious about how you saw the two and if they were intermarried or if they were separate, you know.

[Carl Buechner]

Well, here's the thing. I didn't want to, you know, we couldn't be you for today. We couldn't be ssd. We didn't dress like them, we didn't sound like them. And our message was, was different too, because it was so direct and so defined, beautiful. And, you know, I respect the uniqueness of what they did. And that's what we wanted to do. We wanted to do something that would stand out, that was true to who we are, who we will always be, and what our musical taste is. Same thing. Like some people would Say, oh, straight edge. It's a law of moderation. Not to us. It's not a law of moderation. It's. It's very defined. And that's why we called it vegan straight edge. We're like. We're doing something different. We're not trying to overtake your thing. We're not trying to take anything away from you. This is just what we're doing. And. And it caught, you know, and it caught in certain parts of the country, certain parts of the world, you know?

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Colin]

So you mentioned Carl having journals and Journals full of tour stories and anecdotes for me.

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah.

[Colin]

Anything ring a bell that you can tell the people?

[Bo]

Let's get a story from Tor.

[Colin]

I want. I want a Firestorm tour story. I want a Destroy the Machines Tor story. This is turning it. This is going from Weekend Warrior Band to. Oh, shit. This. This band is my entire life now. So break me off with something.

[Carl Buechner]

I will say this one of them. We played Milwaukee Metal Fest.

[Bo]

Beautiful.

[Carl Buechner]

And we were there. Marauder was there with us.

[Colin]

Okay, so this is the original iteration. It is now owned by Sir James and Josta.

[Carl Buechner]

Yes, it is. It is. And he. He gifted me with a Milwaukee Metal Fest gas station shirt when we played in Chicago a couple months ago.

[Colin]

Of course he did.

[Carl Buechner]

Yes, he did. So anyways, we played an early one, and it was Cradle of Filth. It was Marauder. It was us. And it's a good day. It was a great day. And some of our guys, some of my guys were moshing for Marauder.

[Colin]

And your stance on Master Killer. Could you repeat your famous catchphrase for me?

[Carl Buechner]

Master Killer. Masterpiece. And I love Deadly Venoms. I do. But that is, like, we mentioned when we were together in Alabama, it's like. Yeah, it's Age of Coral. It's Judge bringing it down. It's sick of it all. Blood, sweat, no tears. It's aggressive voice.

[Colin]

Dsi.

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah, there's just, you know, Marauder has all of. All those elements, but it. It's probably. I think it's the greatest New York hardcore record of. Of that decade next year next to one voice.

[Colin]

It's not just us, I swear to God.

[Bo]

Yeah, it's not us, guys.

[Carl Buechner]

No. Yeah. And live. Oh, my God. Dude, people need to watch them in Syrac Hellfest. Watch that video.

[Bo]

Okay, I will.

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah, Check that video out.

[Bo]

So tell us about Milwaukee Metal Fest. What was going on?

[Carl Buechner]

Okay, so some of my guys, if you want a crazy story, I mean, we might not want to put this in, but. But But I'm going to tell it anyways. Okay. So Wisconsin had a pretty strong Nazi skin presence in the 90s.

[Bo]

That still does.

[Carl Buechner]

Like, there was. There was two choices for the crazy guys. You could either join the Nazi skinheads or be vegan strainage. But everybody seemed to gravitate to one or the other who was, like, very, very aggressive.

[Colin]

Crazy. Crazy dichotomy there, huh? But it's really gonna be the best guy or the worst guy, pretty much.

[Carl Buechner]

If you were crazy as you chose your team, you know what I mean?

[Colin]

Okay.

[Carl Buechner]

And. And the bad guys went that way, and I think the good guys went our way, you know?

[Colin]

Yeah, I would say so.

[Carl Buechner]

But they were there and somebody got, you know, punched and tempers were flaring, and we were outside and, you know, before I go on, I'll say this. Like, some of those dudes or one of those dudes. Yeah. Okay. After we went outside, we were standing under a street light and there was a stand. I think they're from Chicago. They're called. I think they're called Balls of Power or something like that.

[Bo]

Okay.

[Carl Buechner]

And the singer was standing next to me. And these dudes were huge. These dudes are jacked. And all of us are vertically challenged, so. Vertically challenged. Slim frames, you know, at that time. And they, like, they opened up their trunks and they started fanning out. And this one guy, he opened up the trunk of his car, and I saw him lift up into the air a saw blade. And the light flickered off of. Off of the.

[Colin]

And this is Balls of Power.

[Carl Buechner]

Balls of Power are with us.

[Colin]

Power is good guys.

[Carl Buechner]

They're good guys on our side. And I turned to the thing, I was like, dude, I was like, I. I gotta fight because they hit my friend. But if you want to run, it's okay. He goes, I'm not gonna run. I was like, okay, man. I don't know if it's gonna go well for any of us.

[Bo]

Holy.

[Colin]

Oh, my God.

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah.

[Bo]

Yeah. So how'd it go?

[Carl Buechner]

Police car pulls up with the light flashing, like, oh, my God. We got tricked. It was divine intervention because the dude had a saw blade. Come on.

[Bo]

Yeah, yeah. Jeez.

[Colin]

You don't want. They made a whole movie franchise about how dangerous those things are. You don't want to use them.

[Carl Buechner]

No, you don't. And. And we had another incident. We were playing with Agnostic Front in Buffalo, and my bass player threw a brick at those dudes in their car. And this dude chased me with a little samurai sword across the parking lot. It was insane.

[Colin]

Nazis Using samurai swords.

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah. Yeah, well, they refer to the Japanese.

[Colin]

That's true. Yeah.

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah.

[Bo]

I guess they know their history.

[Colin]

The one that's allowed, huh?

[Carl Buechner]

I guess they.

[Colin]

They eat hot dogs and ramen.

[Bo]

That's it.

[Colin]

They shouldn't have access to this.

[Carl Buechner]

So, I mean, it wasn't. It was a very volatile era.

[Colin]

Okay.

[Carl Buechner]

Wow. And maybe we shouldn't tell fight stories because I don't see you guys normally do that.

[Colin]

We've got some. It's totally fine.

[Bo]

We've got some. It's totally fine. And there's.

[Colin]

Statutes up, brother.

[Bo]

Statutes up. And we'll. We can bleep names. We could do anything. But the. But the people want to know these stories. You know, the fight happened.

[Carl Buechner]

Exactly. My guitar player hit somebody with a rock or brick or something. But I mean, I think that's. I think that first it was in the pit, then it was with the rock or the brick, and then the saw blades came out.

[Bo]

But, I mean, the takeaway is, is that Chicago and Earth Crisis were willing to fight Nazis with saw blades. That's all. That's all we need to know.

[Carl Buechner]

I mean, it didn't look good, though.

[Bo]

Well, again, we're being looked like we.

[Carl Buechner]

Were going to emerge, Victoria.

[Colin]

But you were ready to stand up for your beliefs.

[Carl Buechner]

Oh, we were ready. We were ready. We're always ready.

[Colin]

So with Destroy the Machines, after. After this, this, these years of touring, this is the highest selling victory release of all time at that point and would remain that way for several years.

[Carl Buechner]

Oh, I didn't know that.

[Colin]

That's right.

[Carl Buechner]

Cool.

[Colin]

So that's. That's gotta feel pretty good. I mean, if I'm breaking news to you, that's pretty cool, dude.

[Carl Buechner]

It's. It's a Hard Lower exclusive for me.

[Colin]

Hard Lower exclusive.

[Bo]

Carl, let me ask you something real quick before we move on. Colin, when did Firestorm become the closer? Was it like an immediate, like, oh, this is the song we used to open with it? Actually, there was a video mid-90s at the fireside with a lot of the guys. I mentioned Shane being one of them, losing their minds to you guys. Closing with Fireside or closing with Firestorm at the Fireside. Fireside, yeah. So I'm just curious as to when it became like, oh, they. This is like the hit. We should close with it.

[Carl Buechner]

You know, I feel like we used.

[Bo]

To open with it hard.

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah, we used to open with it and close with Gamoras and then it started getting switched into different spots of the set until it became the Closer.

[Bo]

Yeah, okay.

[Colin]

Sometimes the closer decides itself. There's not much you can do.

[Bo]

You were very.

[Carl Buechner]

It's true. Yeah, it's true.

[Colin]

Pardon this interruption.

[Carl Buechner]

Night it doesn't get much better the.

[Colin]

Night this fight going to turn off your light.

[Carl Buechner]

I think the kids are going to be all right.

[Colin]

Got to go let the fight with once all night crash out on. We know you're enjoying this incredible episode with Carl. We are too. So we're going to make this fast.

[Bo]

Yes.

[Colin]

Look. Manscaped.com you need it if we're going to liberate these animals. We can't be stinky.

[Bo]

No, no, no.

[Colin]

Rule number one, straight edge. You've got enough adversity in your life from everyone around you. Why would you stink too?

[Bo]

The least you could do is have people say, he smells pretty good, though.

[Colin]

At least he smells pretty good. And he freed that monkey. You know, that's the dream. So go to manscaped.com use code hard lore. You're getting 20% and free shipping site wide. It's an unbelievable deal. The crop preserver, one of our favorites. The crop reviver, one of our favorites. The legendary Lawnmower 5.0.

[Bo]

That's right.

[Colin]

Another one of our favorite.

[Bo]

Shave the monkey Free the monkey manscape.

[Colin]

Outstanding, Bo. Look at you with the one liner today.

[Bo]

I'm back. I'm fresh.

[Colin]

Wow. The monkeys will be free once you can see past your disgusting crop. Okay. Manscaped.com hard lore. 20% off, free shipping today. It's also brought to you by Guilty Party, the number one menswear store in North America, co owned by the drummer of Foundation Champ. This is an incredible small business with the finest goods that a man can wear.

[Bo]

I check their website so frequently, every time their Instagram says, we got a new product, we got a new brand coming. Whatever. It's like I'm a kid on Christmas.

[Colin]

I respond with the emoji every time they post a new thing. Yeah, like these right here.

[Bo]

What do you got?

[Colin]

These full count.

[Bo]

Oh, yeah.

[Colin]

Denim jeans.

[Bo]

Full count. Cloth.

[Colin]

Just got them back from Christine, my tailor. This a legend. A Sherman Oaks legend. She's the best. This is love at first wear. I put them on. I couldn't believe them.

[Bo]

That's right.

[Colin]

Those iron. Those Ironheart engineer pants.

[Bo]

Oh, I'm these dude. I can't get enough of them. I got. Just got back from tour. First thing I did was change in the.

[Colin]

Unbelievable.

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Colin]

So this could be you. These are things that are built to last a lifetime. And if you use code hard lower, you're going to get 10% off. And if it's over $300, which a lot of the stuff is, you're gonna get free shipping too.

[Bo]

But don't be afraid of the price. That doesn't matter. Because what matters is these are things that you're gonna. They're the clothing that you're gonna call a piece, because these pieces are gonna last you forever.

[Colin]

Somebody asked me, why would I wear salvage denim when I can wear a pair of Levi's? And the answer is, you can blow out the crotch of those Levi's taking a piss. Oh, you know, dude, dog and a dog are gonna blow that thing out. I have to spin kick 400 times before I blow my crotch.

[Bo]

That really is the thing is, cheap denim is cheap denim. You're going to see exactly why. Buy one pair of good denim and you will see exactly why people are advocates for it.

[Colin]

That's right. Code hard lore. 10% off. Now enjoy this incredible episode with the greatest vegan straight edge frontman of all, the vegan strut. Man, I'm crazy. Today, the greatest vegan straight edge frontman of all time, Carl Buechner. Here we go. Yeah, so, you know, becoming the top dogs in American regular touring, hc, I'll call it. That can come controversy. So with that, I am of course talking about the alleged floor punch Yogurt incident of 1996. Can you tell me about that? And. And other incidents of that time? You. You mentioned dead mice. What. What else was there? Yogurt. My what? What. What? Why are these things being thrown at you? And what are they?

[Carl Buechner]

Okay, here's the thing. Like we said earlier, there were. There were bands, like you said today, thinking about vegetarianism or instead, you know, feel their pain no more. What was different from Earth Crisis as compared to those bands was they were. Their message was go vegetarian. Our message was let's save the monkey from the laboratory.

[Colin]

Right?

[Carl Buechner]

Let's break in and rescue the veal calf. Let's destroy the hard drives in the laboratory. Let's directly strike at these people who are abusing and exploiting and torturing these animals. So obviously that's a far more militant approach. Yeah, sure. You know, rescue and disruption and. And destroying their, you know, their data or whatever else or their devices of torture. And I think that one of those guys in. In that band or one of their friends or somebody's relative was, you know, they were. They were somehow involved in owning a first storage unit or something, probably climate controlled. So maybe they were offended by our message or whatever.

[Bo]

I see.

[Carl Buechner]

And you know, other Times, too, it was weird. People were very. I mean, sometimes things were ego driven, you know, like, oh, why is that band headlining over us? Where the kings of this scene? And I would say the same thing every time. I was like, dude, we'll play first. We don't care. I want to watch it. I want to watch your band. I want to watch every man here. I love hardcore.

[Bo]

And also, it's like, you don't want to play after us, brother. Trust me.

[Carl Buechner]

You don't want to follow. I never. I've never had an ego about where we plan the bill. It doesn't matter to me, you know, I want to watch every band. I want. I want us to play our best.

[Colin]

Now with the yogurt incident, okay? So what I wonder is how. How aggressively did this yogurt get distributed? You know, how bad was the scene of the crime with this yogurt?

[Carl Buechner]

It was a yogurt carpet bombing, okay?

[Bo]

Oh, wow.

[Colin]

See, I've been curious, right?

[Bo]

But it's a lot.

[Carl Buechner]

But the funny thing is, you know, nobody had anything to say before we played. You know, nobody wanted to debate us or go toe to toe, like, sparring with insults or throwing a punch. You know, they waited till we're on stage and they're throwing stuff from out of the dark. And I was like, yogurt is insane.

[Colin]

Yeah, it is crazy.

[Carl Buechner]

It was ridiculous. You know, but at the same time, I mean, punk. I mean, hardcore does come from punk. And I understand that there's wild cats. I mean, I've made a few prank phone calls in my life. You know, I get it.

[Bo]

You know, let us. Let us also not.

[Carl Buechner]

Let. Let's.

[Bo]

Let's consider the flip side of the coin where if somebody fundamentally disagrees with Earth Crisis.

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah.

[Bo]

Sabotaging their set is their form of destroying the machine of Earth Crisis. You know what I mean? Like, they're.

[Carl Buechner]

You can't destroy the spirit in this machine, my friend. Wow.

[Colin]

What a quote.

[Bo]

Beautiful.

[Carl Buechner]

And I'll tell you what. So people are throwing yogurt, and they're unplugging our gear. And what was funny is Dennis was just. He just kept a beat, and the crowd kept singing.

[Bo]

Wow.

[Carl Buechner]

And that was powerful and furious. Five were very upset. And, like, for you, they were our friends, and they're very upset because we were guests in New Jersey.

[Bo]

Yep.

[Carl Buechner]

And also, I don't want them upset at me. Dude, they are phenomenal. But I'll tell you a story about them live later. But. And what is the band from Boston? 454 Big Block were very upset, too. All the original FSU dudes and, you know, so a guy, they throw some yogurt. A guy runs up on stage, he's wearing a fake fur coat or a real fur coat, and kids start to hit him. And you can hear me on the mic say, back off. You're going to kill him. Back off. I didn't, you know, so I wanted to stop.

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Carl Buechner]

But what was really cool was when people were being aggressive, our fans kept singing even without the guitars, when the powers cut to Dennis's drum beat and they actually got up on stage and made a little wall around us. So it was amazing, man.

[Bo]

Wow.

[Colin]

Wow.

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah. Like to try, you know, to try and view that as a diss, actually, I think it backfired big time, you know.

[Colin]

Okay. And have you spoken to anybody involved sense?

[Carl Buechner]

I, you know, I. I don't think I have. And I mean, do you want to go back 10 years before that? You want to go back 10 years before that with a fight on a playground? I mean, it doesn't matter, you know.

[Bo]

Sure, sure. I got you. Yeah, yeah.

[Colin]

It's just such a.

[Carl Buechner]

It's.

[Colin]

For some reason, it's this critical story and in. In. In Earth Crisis history.

[Bo]

Well, to the point that it's created the two subgenres of. Of Straight Edge. Four Point. Straight Edge.

[Carl Buechner]

No, dude, because think of it like this. It's like. Yes. Earth Crisis, you know, experimented with different temples and darker guitar tones and more aggressive vocals and different subject matter. But, I mean, we've got our. Our Youth Crew band, too. We've got Path Resistance, Right.

[Bo]

Oh, we're about to get there.

[Colin]

Which we're. We're there right now.

[Carl Buechner]

You know, I love Youth Crew as much as anybody else ever did, you know, because. Because that's, you know, that's what I grew up with. I love it just as much. But I wanted to do something. I wanted to do something different before I went back and revisited that and celebrated it in our own version.

[Colin]

So let's. Let's get into that, because a van crash on Destroy the Machines on in that era is directly kind of responsible for the formation of Path Resistance.

[Bo]

I read that everyone in the crash was affected in some way.

[Carl Buechner]

Everybody got hurt. It was bad.

[Bo]

Yeah, that's a nightmare.

[Carl Buechner]

I mean, we traveled pretty poorly during that era. We would take all the seats out of our van.

[Bo]

Okay, gotcha.

[Carl Buechner]

And load all the equipment in flat, and then put mattresses on it and lay on top of the mattresses.

[Bo]

Did that a couple times myself.

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah. And it was, you know, not great. When you're doing a us tour.

[Bo]

Well, yeah. I mean, you don't think about the fact that. That everything has momentum and everything's a lot more dense than you are. So when. If a van rolls once or you're.

[Colin]

In a free floating death machine, you're in a blender.

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah. Now, that machine, my friend, was destroyed for me.

[Bo]

How. What did you. How badly were you injured, Carl?

[Carl Buechner]

Honestly, for me, it was just scratches and bruises, but I thought everyone was dead because, you know, I fell asleep and we hit black ice, and our buddy Mike was driving. He goes, we're spinning. We're spinning. And we spun off the highway and then rolled four times.

[Bo]

Oh, my God.

[Carl Buechner]

And every time we rolled, I was hitting the ceiling. I was hitting the dashboard, hitting the ceiling, hitting the dashboard. And, you know, every time we're rolling, the windows are breaking and people are flying out the windows, I kid you not. Flying out the windows. No one was left in the back. It was just me and the driving. And I was going.

[Colin]

Can you still see this in your mind when you think about it?

[Carl Buechner]

I had nightmares. Like. I mean, that was my Vietnam. Like, I had nightmares about that for years, you know, And I turned around, I'm all bloody, and I'm going, scott Dynasty and Scott, Tennessee. And I'm trying to lift up the base camp. I'm looking for him under the stuff, because I was like. I thought they got crushed under the gear.

[Bo]

Yeah, yeah.

[Carl Buechner]

But they. They flew out. And I didn't realize that until I looked outside and there was this trail of wreckage, like raptors and boxes and luggage and everything, you know, and bodies, like, just guys laying there, like, knocked out.

[Colin]

But the. The odds that they all survived, when with the inertia of being thrown out of a thing that is still moving, potentially crushing them, is, like, unbelievable.

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah, it was literally unbelievable. Like, Dennis was. Was laying there, and he had. I think he had two clapped lungs, a broken collarbone. Jim had to have a clean. Jim from Conviction was out with us. He would play with us from time to time. He had his spleen removed. His ear was partially detached. Yeah, everyone was all cut up. Everyone had to go to the hospital. And when Jim regained consciousness, he goes, is there still time to make it to Salt Lake?

[Bo]

Wow.

[Colin]

Of course it's on the way to Salt Lake, dude.

[Bo]

It on. Was it on 70? Was it between Denver and Salt Lake?

[Carl Buechner]

I think. I think we were going from Yakima, Washington, too.

[Bo]

Okay. So the other way. But still. Jesus Christ.

[Colin]

Yeah, it's another Tough one.

[Carl Buechner]

Yep. And, and so anyways, everyone was banged up and Dennis was, was hurt the worst. So he, but he, he always a trooper. He's like, as soon as I'm better, we're going back. You know, we had like, it took him three months to heal fully.

[Bo]

Okay.

[Colin]

Pretty fast.

[Bo]

Yeah, it's pretty quick, all things considered.

[Carl Buechner]

That's the thing. My guys are all, they're all fitness, they're all judo, jiu jitsu. Like Dennis is. I think he's a third degree black belt. So I mean, he. His bones knit quick, you know, considering how much the severity of the injuries. But anyways, our, you know, our old drummer from, from Earth Crisis, Mike, he's like, okay, we'll do something. And you know, we're just, you know, we would sit in the van and just talk about songs we wanted to write and different beliefs or different perspectives. And I was like, straight Edge. Straight Edge is the path of resistance through life. Like everything is getting thrown at us. Like, no matter who you are, there is some type of a drug that could tempt you. Maybe you want to be a wrestler, a bodybuilder, so you go to steroids. Maybe you want to, you know, paint or sculpt. You would. You could gravitate towards psychedelics. Maybe you have high anxiety, so you would want to smoke a type of weed or what? You know what I mean? There's something, there's something, you know, maybe you're wicked into chasing women, so you want to be in a bar and drink and. You know what I mean? Like, there is something that could tempt every personality type.

[Colin]

Absolutely.

[Bo]

Wow.

[Carl Buechner]

And that's why I was like, so Straight Edge is the path of resistance through life. You know, that would be a great name for song, maybe, maybe even a great name for the new band.

[Colin]

And from, from what I've heard, the writing of both records was very fast.

[Carl Buechner]

We wrote that first record in three practices.

[Bo]

Wow.

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah. And just like how DJ named Earth Crisis, I named Path Resistance. So the favor was returned because he was one of the three vocalists. I was like, so if we're gonna do a youth group band, I want, I want faster tempos, I want slower breakdowns, I want more sing alongs, I want solos and leads. I want multiple singers running around the stage and everyone will have a backup mic too. So it's like a army, you know?

[Colin]

Yeah.

[Bo]

So let me ask you, I. I had heard that with the three singers in mind for Path. Tell me if maybe this is literal folk folklore made up, but it was kind of like the three different, like, archetypes for Straight Edge guys, because one was kind of more punk. You were representing a more, you know, metallic kind of modern guy, and then there was like a. More like. Like a. An in between. A more traditional youth crew guy. Was that.

[Carl Buechner]

It was. It was purposeful. Yeah, it was direct. Yeah. Because like I said, you know, we. We love all that youth crew stuff and we wanted to, you know, keep that torch lit too, in our own way.

[Bo]

And let me ask you another thing about this record. Thank you. Taylor, you told us in. In Alabama that every single one of these people on the COVID of this record is still vegan. Straight edge.

[Carl Buechner]

All the girls are for sure. Yes.

[Bo]

All the girls. So. So are. Are there some people in here who maybe you've just kind of lost contact with over the. Over time and stuff as life goes on? But was this like the Syracuse Straight Edge vegan? Straight Edge.

[Carl Buechner]

The dudes are Straight Edge. I don't know if all of them are vegan, but the girls are definitely both. They're vegan and Straight Edge. Yeah.

[Colin]

That's awesome.

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Carl Buechner]

And that was. That was part of the first Path record too. It's just Straight Edge, you know?

[Bo]

Okay, okay, got you. My mistake.

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah, but, but, but, but I don't think. I don't think all that. Like I said, I don't think all those dudes are vegan. Some for sure, but the girls definitely.

[Bo]

So one of my favorite record covers, like, album art of all time. This is like.

[Colin]

I agree.

[Bo]

Here we are. This eagle is sick. Like, I saw this eagle at Halo. It's on a flash sheet. Is it not, like, framed up in Halo?

[Carl Buechner]

I believe it is, yeah.

[Bo]

It's awesome. And seeing it, I remember. I was very young, but I remember being like, oh, that's the one. So you're telling me that. See the damage encounter, though, but which are my two favorite songs are written within the three practices. Yeah, man, that is incredible.

[Colin]

Incredible.

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah.

[Bo]

How.

[Colin]

How far after was. Was the second record?

[Carl Buechner]

Oh, this second record was probably 10, 12 years later, I think. Yeah. Or do you mean how many practices did it take?

[Colin]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, was that. Was that another quick, quick operation?

[Carl Buechner]

Not like that. Not like that.

[Colin]

It was a little more intentional.

[Carl Buechner]

It was.

[Colin]

Yeah, yeah, I gotcha.

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah. We wanted a better recording.

[Bo]

One of my. One of my favorite things about that record is you can tell that you have been out on the road just crafting your voice because there are parts where it's single syllables between each singer, and it'll be like, from the, ah.

[Carl Buechner]

It made it fun. It made it fun live. It did.

[Bo]

You sound so insane in contrast to the other singers because your voice is so, like, finely tuned by that point.

[Colin]

That, to me, is one of the biggest standout things on Gamora. On Gamora, season ends. The next Earth Crisis record is like, that's, That's Carl's voice. Like, that's your voice now kind of really settled into place on Gamora and that just happens to every guy after touring. You kind of first hear it on the California Takeover recording where it's like, damn, this guy's. This is road worn. And his voice sounds crazy. But on Gamora, this is like kind of Earth Crisis final form as we know it. So let's get into that record. Tell me about writing and recording that. Cause the title track now, like you said, is either the opener or the closer Forever as this incredible statement piece of somehow being the first guy to make I Am Straight Edge. The simple statement of the song become this beautiful live sing along.

[Carl Buechner]

Well, when we wrote that record again, we took certain elements to destroy the machines. I was like, what if it's even slower? What if it's even sludgier?

[Bo]

Yeah, okay.

[Carl Buechner]

What if it sound. What I want the image of like a bloody body being dragged down a hallway with a light bulb flickering. Like, I want this to sound devastatingly dark.

[Colin]

Wow.

[Bo]

Wow.

[Carl Buechner]

And I think in some ways we achieved it. And we took a long. We took. It took a longer time to craft that record. It did.

[Bo]

You can tell.

[Carl Buechner]

I mean.

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Colin]

Two years between them maybe was long for you.

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Carl Buechner]

I mean, we used to practice when we wrote that record. We had a real band room. We had it. Everything was mic'd. We had quality gear at that point and we had, you know, real recording sessions where we would demo things and we tried to, like, fine tune it as. As much as we could, you know, but we would practice three times a week and practice was real. Like, we would. We'd show up in the morning and jam and then go to lunch and then come back and jam, and then we go to dinner and then we come back and jam.

[Bo]

Wow.

[Carl Buechner]

It was beautiful. Yeah, it was beautiful.

[Colin]

So a couple years of that is what it took to make the Gamora record.

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah.

[Bo]

Wow.

[Carl Buechner]

Wow.

[Colin]

And it shows.

[Bo]

Yeah, I, I normally. I mean, we're. We're fast forwarding just to like, you playing this song live. I normally dislike when a band does something different from a recorded version.

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah.

[Bo]

Earth Crisis playing Gamora live. Dropping out for the part so that it's Just the crowd and hi hat.

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah.

[Bo]

One of my favorite things ever.

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah, that was fun. The first time we did it, I was like, oh, we gotta do that every time now.

[Bo]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I want to get into your lyrical style a little bit, because I think definitely on. Definitely. I mean, even early on, you. You had a different way of writing in that you're using very eloquent words. The vocabulary is really impressive. Difficult to learn as a. As an enjoyer of the music. But I feel like by Gamora Season then, you were really like. Like a wizard.

[Colin]

Like, we'll get into the listener goes to class a little bit by getting to learn these lyrics.

[Bo]

Yes.

[Carl Buechner]

And the reality situation was I was going to class, I was going to college, you know, I was. You know, I was going to college because I wanted to teach history someday.

[Bo]

And was the. The. The title of Gamora Seasons End was that you pulling from something you had learned in your studying and. And you likened it to an application for Earth Crisis?

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. There's. There's a story in the Old Testament about a city that was overcome with crime and depravity and victimization and exploitation, and it was seen as so unredeemable that it was destroyed with fire.

[Bo]

Right.

[Carl Buechner]

And I was like, you know, we're like, you know, I. That we might want to cut this out, but I will say it. You know what I mean? Like, during that era, there was like, all those innocent people were killed at Waco, and all those people were getting killed in the streets in la, and there was other riots and there's horrible, horrible war in Bosnia. I was like, man, like, this. This is getting real wild now, you know, like, are we, like, on the verge of civilizational collapse or something? Like, I'd never seen stuff like that as a kid, you know, I don't.

[Colin]

Think there's anything that needs to be cut there. I mean, you're. You're absolutely right. Every generation kind of goes through these. These big events that. That divine. Define our generations. And what. What better way to address that than your art?

[Bo]

Art? Yeah.

[Carl Buechner]

I mean, maybe, but, like, to me, all I remember is getting chased by cops relentlessly and, you know, handcuffed and being kicked and being slammed into walls. Like, the cops would show up and if I was fuck me up, you know what I mean? Yeah. So to see guys getting hit with bricks in the street and everything on fire, I was like, wow, man, the cops aren't even showing up, and this is serious, you know, I was like, like, what's gonna happen Next. You know what I mean?

[Bo]

And along all of this touring, were you an avid reader, too? Like, you mentioned Lord of the Rings?

[Carl Buechner]

Absolutely, yeah. News junkie, history junkie. Current events, current affairs. And, you know, we're traveling to these cities, so we're seeing this craziness. We've seen the craziness of Baltimore and Detroit, you know, we're seeing the craziness of certain parts of California, you know, or Chicago, for God's sake. You know, and our city, you know, we would come back and, you know, we would feel safer leaving Syracuse and being on the road at that point by mid-90s, like, it was insane.

[Bo]

I know. You mentioned you were journaling along through all this. Are there any inklings yet, halfway through this time period of you writing something like. Like creating a novel? Are you seeing something that's expiring or inspiring you at the. At the time?

[Carl Buechner]

Oh, absolutely, yeah. And that. And that's what happened. You know, Like, I would write these short stories on tour. I would also journal the events of the day or our goals, and I would also write science fiction or fantasy stories, and I would just put them in a notebook. In a backpack. Yeah, I put my notebooks in a backpack. Like, you know, obviously, I would share my lyrics with my band members, but.

[Colin]

They don't get to hear about the wizards and the warlocks.

[Carl Buechner]

They're just hearing about them now.

[Bo]

Like, that's correct.

[Carl Buechner]

This under wraps this whole time because I didn't know if anybody'd like it. But one day, you know, I'll just crisscross over into a little different territory real quick, and then we'll get back to Gamora's. But, like, Jeremy's like, oh, come on over. You got to help me. We got to fix the. We got to rebuild this part of the dining room for his. His. His lady Glinda at the time. And I went over, and he's like, bring that backpack you were telling me about. You know what I mean? I was like, okay, I brought it over, and we sat at his kitchen table, and he was just reading through the. The notebooks, and he's like, we should. How we should be developing these. We ended up not working at all that day or not getting the thing done because we just sat there.

[Colin]

Poor Glinda, man.

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah, Linda. I mean, she probably had to hire a contractor.

[Colin]

She's defying gravity somewhere stable, built.

[Bo]

Not yet, anyways.

[Colin]

You know, he.

[Carl Buechner]

He was like. He's like, we need to develop these into something real. And I was like, well, we'll Just pick one. We'll just pick one and we'll work on that. And. And that's pretty much what happened. But. But to get back to Gamora's. Yeah. Again, I wanted to look, it seemed to me like things are really coming apart at the seams, you know?

[Colin]

Worldwide.

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah, worldwide. And I was like, okay, we're going to need to be a tribe. We're going to need to be a tribe. You know those deaf.

[Colin]

Earth Crisis or Straight Edge.

[Carl Buechner]

I wanted Straight Edge to be a tribe.

[Colin]

Okay.

[Carl Buechner]

I was like, we need true unity. We need things clearly defined and we need to understand the threats and the dangers that are out there and to get as far away from it as we can. So that. That was one of. That was one of my goals when I put that record together.

[Bo]

I hate to ask this, but is one more important to you than the other? Veganism versus Straight edge.

[Carl Buechner]

Veganism or Straight Edge?

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Colin]

It's brutal.

[Bo]

I know.

[Colin]

Brutal question. I know he'll always be both. That I would. I would bet my life I'll always be both.

[Carl Buechner]

I mean, if there was ever like some like crazy collapse or something, I probably would eat a fish before I'd starve to death.

[Bo]

Or before you drank a beer for sustenance.

[Carl Buechner]

Oh, I would never. I would never drink or. I would never involve myself with anything that's not Straight Edge. I would never be a girl. I would never be with a girl that's not vegan. Straight Edge. Never. You know what I mean? Wow.

[Bo]

Wow.

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah.

[Colin]

Extreme.

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah. But that's just the way I'm wired, you know?

[Bo]

Sure, sure, sure. Not to. Not to get us too off track, but I was just curious.

[Colin]

No, that's all right. So 97.

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah.

[Colin]

This is an incredible time for hardcore in particular. Yeah. Roadrunners on the rise, you guys are almost. You're about to sign there, but Gamora's out. This is your sophomore lp, the big follow up. You nailed it. In my mind. I wasn't there, obviously, but, like, from a musical perspective, I think you did what any Earth Crisis fan wanted to hear next. What was touring on that? Like, what was the response?

[Carl Buechner]

Like, Gamora's was awesome. And I thought Gamora's was the highest selling Earth Crisis record. Maybe not. Maybe destroys is what turned out to be it. But those tours of Europe were fantastic too. We went over there with Snapcase and we toured with Strife. We toured with Turmoil, who are phenomenal. Catch up with them if you haven't listened in recent times. Everybody.

[Colin]

Absolutely.

[Carl Buechner]

And you know, we were playing with Agnostic Front. And we did, I think it, I think that was when we did the Guilty by Association tour with Hate Breed, Scarhead and Mad Ball. Good tour, which was a crusher.

[Bo]

Yeah, yeah.

[Colin]

And this is Europe.

[Carl Buechner]

That was, that one was in America. That one was here in the US that was the, that was the only bus tour we ever did in the U.S. wow. And, and I have journals from that. And that was, that was unbelievable tour. Like, I remember some of the, some of the guys were in Mexico and they got arrested and they were handcuffed in the backseat of the police car and the guy went over and opened the door and got him out. I mean, that tour was over the top.

[Colin]

It really was just wild night after wild night.

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah, yeah.

[Colin]

Anything come to mind you can share? Other than.

[Carl Buechner]

You know, I, I, we might have to skip the details of it, but I, all I can say is that it was pretty out of control. Okay. Yeah, I'm sorry. I know. I mean, it is, this is about storytelling, but at the same time, you just never know. You know what I mean?

[Colin]

No, I get it. Yeah. Yeah. Some things we, you just can't about.

[Bo]

As much as you want to one along this time. I don't know exactly what the year was because I, I, I wasn't able to find it, but there was an interview you did that's pretty infamous, I would say, where you were on, on the news about Straight Edge gang activity in Salt Lake.

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Bo]

Are you seeing this everywhere? Is Salt Lake a particular bastion that it still is when it comes to this, this mentality? Like, how did you feel about that at the time?

[Carl Buechner]

Okay, here's the thing. There was a band called Lifeless, and the singer Alex was a very, very violent dude. And just like how my cousin was kind of like the alpha wolf that we followed his example in a lot of ways. The younger guys were looking to Alex Gotcha. And he was like swinging chains, padlocks on him and, you know, getting in horrible brawls of people. And the guys in his circle were the same way. So the young guys thought that that was just normal, you know, he ended up being an accident where a car flipped on black ice and he got paralyzed and he, he took, he took his life to end his suffering. But I mean, I think that that's what started all that there.

[Colin]

Okay.

[Bo]

Wow.

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah. I think it was just, you know, the war path he stayed on for so long, it just created this sense of normalcy for younger guys to get in. And I think it's because Salt Lake at the Time, you know, you'd go to school, you'd be out of school. I think there was just lots and lots of gangs. Probably like where you guys are from, you know?

[Colin]

Sure.

[Carl Buechner]

You know, it just, it just seemed normal, you know.

[Colin]

Yeah. You got to wear uniforms in middle school for that reason. As a young kid and not really understanding why. Pretty wild.

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah. But I think that, I think that that's why Salt Lake was the way it was. Interesting.

[Colin]

A straight edge Bastion to this day, from what I could tell.

[Bo]

Very much. Yeah. Yeah.

[Colin]

So that's good. That's cool. So around this time, one year later, you guys wrote Breathe the Killers. Very fast, it seems.

[Carl Buechner]

Yes.

[Colin]

That would be your Roadrunner debut. So how did that come about? Roadrunner is definitely like the label in the mid to late 90s. Tell me about them approaching you, writing that record and ultimately leaving victory on the note that you were able to come back eventually.

[Carl Buechner]

Okay, here's what happened. Parkour was getting bigger and bigger and bigger and Mad Ball was getting huge. Agnostic Front, sick of it all. Strife was rising. Snap Case was rising. Marauder, Turmoil. So Marauder and Turmoil went to Century Media.

[Bo]

Right?

[Carl Buechner]

Right. And we went with Mad Ball and Both Worlds and Shelter to Roadrunner. I was like, wow, hardcore is going to have its day, baby. It's going to happen. This is real, man sounds, you know. No more drinking melted peanut butter in the app in the Chevy Astro van.

[Colin]

Right. You can buy the jelly.

[Carl Buechner]

We don't have to put it into our cargo pocket and try and slip out the back door. How big?

[Colin]

Word. Let me tell you. Let me ask you something.

[Bo]

Oh, great question, Colin.

[Colin]

How big were them cargo pockets at the time?

[Carl Buechner]

Let me tell you what, I never owned a single pair of Jenkos ever.

[Bo]

How about that?

[Carl Buechner]

And I never mastered the backpack. Never. Those things never happened.

[Colin]

That's urban legend.

[Bo]

That's chokehold.

[Colin]

Yeah, but you got that hat on right now and that's a whole other urban legend.

[Carl Buechner]

Why, what's wrong with that?

[Colin]

That's what I'm saying.

[Carl Buechner]

It's.

[Colin]

This is you. It's the. You're defining archetype right now. You know, I love to see it.

[Carl Buechner]

Okay. No, these hats are just a Boston, New York thing. Do you guys have them out there?

[Colin]

I don't know.

[Bo]

We got them in Chicago for sure.

[Colin]

They're out here for sure. Okay, but it's like a certified old head staple, you know?

[Carl Buechner]

Okay, yes, that's true. If you're, if you're a 55, 45 year old hardcore guy, you probably got three of them.

[Colin]

You're invited to the unction. If you got one of those on, you know, I love it. So Here Comes calling. This is. This is their top dogs. They want your next record.

[Carl Buechner]

They do.

[Colin]

How. How hard of a decision is that?

[Carl Buechner]

It's perfect. It's awesome. We're going to be with our pals and Shelter, who we toured with. We're going to be with both worlds in Mad Ball. It's going to be beautiful, you know, so we're very stoked we got brought aboard. I was like, wow, look at this. We're going to be on here for, like, six records. We made it. Yeah, we made it. And next thing you know, along comes a little band that we met out in. In Iowa. We played out there and wow. We're hanging out in the van on the sidewalk after the show and we meet these crazy guys are like, yeah, man. We wear masks and we jump on trampolines and we're. You know, we got some metallic hardcore stuff going on. I was like, oh, cool. And it was Slipknot.

[Colin]

So now their festival brings us this very show.

[Carl Buechner]

Right. So Slipknot came out and Roadrunner was like, no, more hardcore.

[Colin]

Wow.

[Carl Buechner]

Slipknot. We need Mushroom Head. We need these guys. We need those guys. You know what I mean?

[Colin]

Sure, sure.

[Carl Buechner]

So they kind of dissolved their hardcore divisions pretty quick.

[Colin]

Yeah.

[Carl Buechner]

Wow. And. And that's pretty much what happened. You know what I mean?

[Colin]

Slip not killed Roadrunner. Hc.

[Carl Buechner]

I'm not gonna say that, because they.

[Colin]

Were supportive and they've been super cool inadvertently, because. Because the labels, their entire economic system was redistributed to new metal at that time.

[Bo]

I'm sure that's what I'm saying.

[Carl Buechner]

New metal, like hardcore, was rising, rising, rising. Bam. Here comes new metal. You know what I mean?

[Colin]

Totally.

[Bo]

One thing I was going to say that we haven't touched on, but I would love to talk about, is Earth Crisis Merchant. The merchandise over the years and the. For lack of a better term, I don't like saying branding, but, you know, for lack of a better term, the branding of Earth Crisis felt extremely deliberate and extremely. Like you didn't just put whatever on a shirt. You were very thoughtful and mindful about what was going on. A shirt and what you were putting out there. I'm just always curious, especially hearing about guys from before our time, how. How that happened, where designs came from, where.

[Colin]

Who's doing that? Are you making them in Ms. Painting?

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Colin]

How are you putting these things together?

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Colin]

What was that process, like, 30 years ago?

[Carl Buechner]

Okay. When it comes to album art, when it comes to T shirt designs, they're all things that we've kind of had a vision for and, and for the most part, directing an artist to, you know, create the image for us.

[Colin]

Sure.

[Carl Buechner]

And just like with the wrenches, you know, it's like the, the symbology and for lack of a better term, the slogans. You know, I want it to leave an impression.

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Carl Buechner]

I want it to, I want it to be, in a way, its own piece of art, you know, and to send a message.

[Bo]

The recycling symbol should not be cool.

[Colin]

That should not be that cool. It shouldn't work.

[Bo]

But it works so well for Earth Crisis races specifically.

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah. And I, and I, and I love the idea you guys came up with us for the, the three. The three wrenches for the 30 year anniversary.

[Colin]

That was us.

[Carl Buechner]

That still needs to happen. All credit goes to you guys for that. Yeah.

[Bo]

So I, I, like you mentioned earlier, I just got back from Australia and I picked up a very cool Earth Crisis design.

[Carl Buechner]

Oh, that's with a road grader, dude.

[Bo]

Indigenous people throwing weapons at a bulldozer.

[Colin]

And destroy the machines.

[Carl Buechner]

They are attempting to destroy that dragon like machine monster that is destroying their forest. And that is from an Earth first book.

[Bo]

Perfect. Perfect. Excellent.

[Colin]

That's exactly what we were looking for.

[Bo]

Exactly.

[Carl Buechner]

Right?

[Bo]

Yeah. Wow.

[Carl Buechner]

And so, well, just to wrap up with Roadrunner, it's like, you know, I love the label. I. I thought it was awesome that, that we got to release that record on it. Like when you lifted the CD out of the tray, there was like a five paragraph essay, for lack of a better term. Again, that was about the correlation between veganism and a healthier natural world. So I felt like at that point it's like, okay, we accomplished one of the biggest parts of our mission. We made it to a real deal label.

[Bo]

Yep.

[Carl Buechner]

That was reaching out beyond hardcore into just hints that liked, you know, thrash metal, death metal, really aggressive stuff that probably had never heard about any of that stuff before or Straight Edge either.

[Bo]

Absolutely.

[Carl Buechner]

So I felt like even though we were only on the label for one record, it was, to me, it felt like a massive win, big time.

[Bo]

And yeah, your voice again, sounds unreal on this record in particular.

[Colin]

I agree. And I do think I would hope that Roadrunner feels good about releasing the hardest Earth Crisis song of all time, which is, of course, Ultra Militants.

[Carl Buechner]

Dude, I'll tell you what, Ultra Militants is a super fun song to play, but if I'm gonna be honest, I just think it needed to be a Little shorter.

[Colin]

It is four minutes. It's four plus.

[Carl Buechner]

Yes.

[Colin]

Four plus is tough.

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah. And I said, listen, listen. I've been arranging and producing a lot of this stuff over the years. You gotta trust me. Four is too long for the core.

[Bo]

You're. You're the guy who's interfacing with the live environment the most.

[Carl Buechner]

Right.

[Bo]

No one trust no one knows better. Yeah.

[Carl Buechner]

Four is too long. These guys are gonna all be out of breath.

[Bo]

But the. The now this war has two sides.

[Colin]

Yeah.

[Bo]

Well, again, was such a statement for young me. I wanted it to be about straight edge so badly.

[Colin]

I love that image because the war now having two sides. I literally picture monkeys with guns and spears and stuff fighting back, dude.

[Carl Buechner]

The unraveling. The Council of Crows comes out on Earth Day, and I am as proud as can be of that book, thanks to my buddy Jeremy and my buddy Keith. It exists.

[Colin]

Like I said, war having two sides.

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah. It has two sides like that that if it ever gets animated, that song should be in the movie.

[Colin]

Oh, yeah.

[Bo]

Amazing.

[Colin]

Shannon kicking. Finally. So what was the treatment like at Roadrunner versus something like what you were used to at Victory?

[Carl Buechner]

I mean, Victory was first class. I mean, they would fly us out there for meeting and stuff.

[Bo]

Oh, wow.

[Carl Buechner]

And, you know, they'd lay out like a spread for us. And, I mean, they did a lot more right than wrong, that's for sure.

[Colin]

So it was really. You just. You were experimenting with the Roadrunner decision. It was just like, hey, we have to do this.

[Carl Buechner]

Exactly. Yeah.

[Colin]

And clearly Tony understood enough to welcome you right back to Victory.

[Carl Buechner]

There was no hard feelings. No.

[Colin]

Cool.

[Carl Buechner]

And. Yeah. And we put Slither together. And again, like, we. We would get credit to jump ahead.

[Colin]

Now on the timeline.

[Carl Buechner]

We got criticized for Slither. I was like, dude, we wrote a song called Killing Brain Cells where you can clearly hear every word that it's about how destructive alcoholism to the individual and their circle of friends and family. That good. It was clear enough and the temple was slow enough. It could have been played on the radio. That is delivering the straight edge message. Look. And people are like, ah, you guys sold out. Blah, blah, blah. I'm like, how on earth could you brand us with that when we've got animal rights songs and straight edge stuff? And it's clear. It's clear.

[Colin]

You're just changing the form of the message, but the message remains the same.

[Carl Buechner]

Yes. Changing the delivery system for the message to make it slightly more coherent. Yeah.

[Colin]

I think it's a controversial cult favorite is how I would call it.

[Bo]

Now growing up much like. Like Alpha Omega or something. Like growing up and you're hearing about, oh, you got to ch out this rider, got to check out this record. By this time they changed is. You know, that can apply to a million bands. When you revisit Slither as like someone who's older and into. Into heavier stuff. I was much more of a punk kid growing up. Couple. Couple tracks.

[Colin]

Yeah. I mean, it sounds like the same guys, which is.

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Colin]

You know, the evolution is there. The. The. The trajectory is there. Tell me about what went into Slither and how the. We'll call it. We'll call it mixed response at the time felt.

[Carl Buechner]

Well, some people loved it, man, you know, and other people are like, ah, it's too, you know, it's too melodic or it's too clear. You know what I mean? It did have kind of a higher end quality to it, like, tonally, I think.

[Colin]

But so did Breed the Killers.

[Bo]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Colin]

Which it really. That really worked for, like, that record is very clean and very hard, which is a really tough balance.

[Bo]

Tough. Yeah.

[Carl Buechner]

But that's the thing I wanted to be. I wanted to try and get it to a point where you could hear the words and understand them without the lyric sheet. So that's what I was kind of striving for with both those releases. And I think we got it on Slither, at least that aspect.

[Colin]

So do you look back fondly today at Slither?

[Carl Buechner]

The one thing I will say about Slither is this, you know, maybe it should have been the first Freya record. I don't know.

[Bo]

Okay, okay.

[Carl Buechner]

You know, but as an Earth Christmas record, as a vehicle for delivering a message, I think it accomplished its mission.

[Bo]

Absolutely.

[Colin]

Totally.

[Bo]

I remember reading criticisms of you specifically for wearing a leather appearing jacket for a promo shoot, which is like, it's really funny. I'm not even gonna ask you. I'm gonna assume that it's just fake leather. And I'm sure if you look at.

[Carl Buechner]

Any of those old photos, like, I never gravitated towards, like, canvas or denim. I always wore, like, the fake leather Adidas on stage, the fake leather belt.

[Bo]

You know, so it's so funny that that was a criticism. It was just like, guys. Yeah.

[Colin]

Some things don't need to be said.

[Bo]

Yeah, exactly.

[Carl Buechner]

It's winter. We're gonna wear our jackets, so it's okay, you know?

[Colin]

Yeah, sure. So a year later, you guys break up.

[Carl Buechner]

We did, yes.

[Colin]

You're done. Tell me about why that happened and what the next few. Was it. You were like, I want to do Freya full time or what else went into it?

[Carl Buechner]

No, no, no, not at all. You know, it's like, I mean, we successfully did Earth Crisis and Paths and let them overlap.

[Colin]

Totally. Yeah.

[Carl Buechner]

You know, but the thing was, during that time, like, I'm sure with both your bands, with all your bands, you guys aren't jamming in the same room almost never. Yeah, it's.

[Bo]

I.

[Colin]

Which I would love to. I would. I hate that that's the case.

[Bo]

It'd be easier. Yeah.

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah, right. But, you know, we didn't know that we could do that yet. And Scott's lady got a really good job and Dennis got a good job offer at Buffalo, where he's from. It just seemed like, okay, well, we can't do this full time. I mean, we were. The God's truth is we were tour burnt after 10 years. You know what I mean?

[Colin]

Absolutely.

[Bo]

Of course.

[Colin]

You know, everybody that happens, that hits everybody.

[Carl Buechner]

Right? Sure. And we're like, okay, we'll. We'll re. We'll reignite Path Resistance and we'll just all work on projects and that'll be fine. And that's pretty much what happened. Yeah, that. Yeah, it did take a couple years to get the PATH record out. It did. And Scott and Dennis worked a little bit on a band called Slave One. Scott did a studio project called Isolated, and I did Freya with Bulldog and Eric because they stayed in Syracuse and the other guys moved away and we would, you know, we would join up and work on the PATH record. And after a while I realized, oh, well, you can write parts here and just email. You can write parts here and email the file and we can build the record like that.

[Colin]

Revolutionary.

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah. And that. And after we did the PATH record, I'm. I'm sure it was just a year or two later that that Earth Crisis came back. It was like, okay, well, we can absolutely do this. Like, the technology saves a day, dude.

[Bo]

Destroy some machines.

[Carl Buechner]

Machines, right. Only the machines that kill the forest.

[Colin]

Thank. The email machines.

[Carl Buechner]

Yes. Yes. I mean, I'm not anti technology. Yeah. I'm not anti technology in any way. And the line is, destroy the machines that kill the forests that disfigure the earth. You know what I mean? So it's technology being used in a negative way that's destructive.

[Colin]

Are you good with. AI Is the new forefront of that. It's just absolutely destroying everything.

[Carl Buechner]

Right. And I've got. And I've got that punk band that I do, Apocalypse Tribe. And that record is called AI Magetta. So I tackled that with that.

[Colin]

See, there we go.

[Bo]

See, he already knew. He already knew. Do you have a hard time recalling your lyrics, Carl?

[Carl Buechner]

No, no, I. Everything's in the hard drive. The only thing that gets me. The only thing that gets me is if I don't know what song is next. I gotta have, I gotta set list.

[Bo]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Colin]

So you think of that first line and be like, yeah, okay.

[Bo]

Yeah, that's the cue.

[Colin]

Straight edge. Okay, got it. Yeah, I get that relatable feeling. So what made so emailing, the, the ability to email and send riffs is what got Earth Crisis back together somehow.

[Carl Buechner]

I'm just saying like that, like that's how we worked on the second Path record and we saw, okay, this can be done. We don't all have to live in the same place.

[Bo]

Right.

[Carl Buechner]

Okay. And jam in the same room. But. But that's how we did everything else, you know, Like I was saying, we come back from tours and people would work part time jobs, but like, like the majority of our time was spent.

[Colin]

Composing, you know, so that, that was Earth Crisis to you was where we are the guys together in the room.

[Carl Buechner]

Exactly, exactly. And Path was not, you know, there was no animosity, there was no falling out. Like all of our friendships were strong. You know, everybody's the godfather to this guy's daughter or son. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, everything was, everything was fine. It's just like, okay, job opportunities, you know, more income, have some type of stability. I mean, look, you know, these are stories, these are, we're all telling stories today. But like a lot of it was not fun. You know what I mean? A lot of it was not fun. It's hard like getting ripped off by like, I don't know, I don't really know what things are now, but back then a lot of clubs were like mob money laundering operations and you know, sometimes you get ripped off and like.

[Colin]

Is called Live Nation.

[Bo]

Yeah, it's a different kind of.

[Carl Buechner]

But like back then, like a guy that might be out breaking kneecaps, you know what I mean? Like. Yeah. And that's a real thing.

[Bo]

Yeah, sure.

[Carl Buechner]

You know, it's like, hey, we can't lean on this promoter. I mean, his nephews, you know, look like they're out of central casting for some like, you know, Scorsese movie underworld crime film, you know?

[Colin]

Totally, totally.

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Carl Buechner]

And like I said, just, it's everything, you know, I mean, touring is never easy. It doesn't matter that there's ipods and laptops and, you know, routing and everything. Else off the satellite. It's gps. It doesn't matter. It's still hard. You're still away from, you know, your lady and your. And your brothers and everybody else, you know?

[Colin]

Yeah, Yep, totally.

[Bo]

Let me ask you something. I was just going to ask you something personal about you.

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah.

[Bo]

It's one word. Bandanas. You are the forefather of sporting a bandana.

[Colin]

Truly the George Washington of bandanas.

[Carl Buechner]

Here's the thing. Here's the thing. Like I said, I was a skateboarder. And for as horrifically cold as the Syracuse winter is.

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Carl Buechner]

Like we are in a valley and a lot of central New York is swamps. People don't know that. And it is hot and muggy as hell for like five months here.

[Bo]

Sure.

[Carl Buechner]

So more than being a. Any type of a fashion statement or something, it's a necessity. If you're working outside, if you're skateboarding, if you're riding a bike, if you're running, sweat's just going to be pouring in your eyes. You know what I mean? Yeah.

[Colin]

So it's functional. It's a functional utility.

[Carl Buechner]

It's a functional thing. But again, credit where credits too. That's what you should call this episode, you know, Christian Hosoy, always sporting the bandana. Tony Alva always sporting the bandana. We just thought that was normal, you know, to us, there was no like, you know, motorcycle gang connotation or street game connotation. Zero. It was. It was skateboarding, you know, amazing functional swag.

[Bo]

Love that.

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah. And that's the thing, you know, it's.

[Colin]

Like the way Ralph Lauren intended, you know?

[Carl Buechner]

All right, you. You're bouncing jokes and I'm trying to stay on target here.

[Bo]

Oh, I'm sorry.

[Carl Buechner]

All right, here's the thing. So if you look at PATH or earthquakes or frail over all these years, it's always the same. I'm wearing the same types of shoes, I'm wearing the same type of digs. I'm wearing the same types of shirts that are two sizes too large. Like, I've never tried to be a fashionista in every. And anyway, you know what I mean? It's like we're gonna grab a, you know, a Pal Peralta shirt and a windbreaker and we're gonna see what happens.

[Colin]

We're gonna. We're gonna leave the JNCOs on the rack. We're not.

[Carl Buechner]

Not.

[Colin]

We're not with those.

[Carl Buechner]

Go to Chocolate.

[Bo]

I got one more kind of fashion, but not really fashion, hardcore related thing. On the COVID of the PATH record is a guy in construction gloves that are Xed up. Construction gloves are of course a New York thing. New York City thing.

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah.

[Bo]

I've always wondered where that came from. I actually, I asked Joe Hardcore recently. He gave me what. Where he thought it came from. I'm just curious. I want to ask guys from before our time, like, where, where. What was the function of wearing construction.

[Carl Buechner]

Gloves that came from Mike Judge or more Project X. And I think it was just a way to protect your hands. You know, sometimes you get nicked by people's teeth when. During the sing along.

[Bo]

Wow, fascinating. Because rabies wore them. I read a thing, Joe mentioned that, that Roger wore them. So it wasn't necessarily like an edge thing.

[Colin]

It was just my hands are safe and sound ever since wearing them. Leather at Leather X Gloves. So honestly, I'm.

[Bo]

Look at that.

[Carl Buechner]

You're right because that's during a pile up on a sing along. Sometimes you. You wind up and you see a little tooth mark in your hand. You know what I mean?

[Bo]

Catch rabies from one of those.

[Colin]

That's a great problem to have so many people singing that they bite your ass.

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah. You know, it'll happen. If that's why the gloves are. Honestly, they are a good idea.

[Bo]

They are a good idea. Fascinating. Love that. Thank you.

[Colin]

So what ultimately makes you get back together? How does it come about? How does it happen?

[Carl Buechner]

The opportunity was there, the means were there. The friendships were strong. Everyone's hard drives were just riff banks. The vaults were. Everything was stacked up. So we had just tons of material to choose from and the offers had been there the entire time.

[Bo]

That's beautiful.

[Colin]

That makes sense.

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah. And I felt like, you know what it's like, Scott, the isolated CD is fantastic. Your vocals are great. Everybody should check that out. And I feel like Freya had accomplished very cool things. You know, we had played some really cool festivals. We had videos on an MTV and stuff. Like, I was like, it's. It's not time to revisit or Chris, it's time to reactivate it and accomplish what we didn't before. You know, we can have better artwork, we can have better songs, we can have better recordings. We could be on a label that gives us a little bit more of a push and. And you know, I know you don't really want to stray over into that following era, but.

[Bo]

No, we want to hear what you got.

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah. So, I mean, that's what happened. And it's like, okay, ultra militants didn't do the job. So vegan to the death, you know, was kind of like, let's try it again and see if we can structure it properly, you know, I feel like vegan to the death. Like that. That song accomplish what? Ultra militants did it, you know, as far as, like, getting a crowd going, you know, you had.

[Colin]

You had the same intention.

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah.

[Colin]

With. With both.

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah, yeah.

[Colin]

You. You recently finally did a proper recording of Smash Would Be Smashed.

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah. After all these years. Yeah. That was.

[Colin]

That's awesome.

[Carl Buechner]

That was.

[Colin]

Put it on again the other day.

[Carl Buechner]

It's.

[Colin]

It turned out great.

[Bo]

Dude. I was gonna say, I'm going to the gym after this. I know what I'm listening to.

[Colin]

From 2001 to 2007, what did you notice in terms of differences?

[Carl Buechner]

How has the response been since between 2001 and 2007?

[Colin]

Yeah, like, that was Earth Crisis, big absence. So you come back, you've been playing in other bands, but Earth Crisis is reaching an entire generation that never got to see it. Like, Earth Crisis, as I was finding hardcore, was this thing that had came and went.

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Colin]

A myth, this mythical thing that loved. That I could. That I didn't have access to. And suddenly you're playing at the Ventura Theater in a couple weeks with my brother's fans, you know.

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Colin]

So that was cool. Tell me. Tell me about just reaching a new generation of hardcore people and how that response was upon your initial comeback, all.

[Bo]

Wearing the tightest clothes you've seen in decades.

[Colin]

That is true.

[Carl Buechner]

Yes. Well, I think that a lot of the crew stuff was starting to calm down finally, which was good because shows were violent, and I think that some of the. The negative stuff that was on the peripheral edges of our world was starting to die down too, which was good. It seemed like. Like the proper spirit was there. And we played Maryland Metal Festival. I think that was our first show back with Full Blown Chaos and Tyrant.

[Colin]

It was New England Metal and Hardcore Fest.

[Carl Buechner]

Okay, New England. I'm sorry. New England. And, yeah, it was awesome. It was awesome. Like, you know, people had been to see Path and they were supportive and cool. Path had been to Europe, Path had been to California, you know. So, yeah, I felt like between. Between Freya and Isolated and Pathogens, we had accomplished some pretty cool things during that gap in time. And when we came back, kids were very stoked and they're bringing their little brothers, and there was some guys that hadn't seen us before, that seen us for the first time, and they knew words to the new record and it was really cool. It was.

[Colin]

And how do you reflect now on Earth Crisis overall? Legacy. Getting Getting people like me into straightedge, getting tens of thousands of people into veganism, probably.

[Carl Buechner]

I think it is. It is a team effort, you know, it really is a team effort. It's the collective force of all the bands that we love and, you know, us just passing the torch to each other. And I mean, think about what you guys do, you know, with Harm's Way and God's hate and dead body and everything. Like, we're all doing the same thing. We're all still in love with this music. We're all still obsessed with it. It's. It's in our blood. We love it. You know, it hurts us to do it. It tears us away from things. It puts us in parts of the world we might otherwise never go, you know, that some of them are dangerous. But yeah, it's. It's fantastic. I mean, I wouldn't change a thing. I really wouldn't. Because everything is, you know, everything is a lesson that we can learn from and it helps us advance and it helps us understand other people and ourselves. I know that sounds a little hippie ish, but. But it's real.

[Colin]

I mean, I think being vegan, straight edge for 30 years, you're allowed to get hippie ish as much as you want, you know, one, one love, you know, for real.

[Carl Buechner]

We're named after reggae. We're named after Reggae Sock.

[Colin]

But see, that's fine.

[Carl Buechner]

The.

[Bo]

The interesting thing is though, Carl is like, Colin and I have bands to go off of. Even Josta said they had Earth Crisis to kind of go off of as to what was possible, the, the direction, both ethically and like, the, the message and musically that Earth Crisis was doing all combined in one. I know that there are, there were influences, but truly combined into one package is unheard of prior and just really amazing to see the impact thereof and to like, hear these stories and to see, you know, exactly what you were able to do with such a thing.

[Carl Buechner]

Well, here's the thing, you know, it's like, like I said, I thought, you know, and we got a critique by your brother a little bit. I remember in an episode in the past, and what was it he said, you know, not everything with Earth Crisis is real. You know, like they were singing about some stuff like let's say a nuclear war or whatever, you know.

[Bo]

Oh, okay, okay.

[Carl Buechner]

Do you remember that?

[Colin]

No, but I mean, I got nuclear war songs, so I, I get it. I get where you're coming. In my mind, the nuclear war is.

[Carl Buechner]

Real because we lost to push button warfare, Right?

[Bo]

Oh, and in The. I see. I see in the.

[Colin]

The brackets, man, Carl's been. Carl's watching a little more than we know.

[Carl Buechner]

Dude, you guys are my favorite podcast. I'm not even kidding. I watch you guys more than Joe Rogan. I really do.

[Colin]

Well, thank God for that.

[Carl Buechner]

That's how I can recognize your voices before we turn the camera around.

[Colin]

Beautiful.

[Carl Buechner]

I could address you by name because I know your voices. But anyways. Yeah. I think that we witnessed so much environmental devastation, so many casualties and fatalities of the drug plague, so many, you know, suicides and everything else that just were related to the chaos of what was going on in this city when we grew up.

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Carl Buechner]

You know that it was like, we have to develop a plan. We have to have a code of conduct, and we have to be a brotherhood and a sisterhood and stick together, because I literally think everything's going to collapse.

[Bo]

Wow.

[Colin]

And you've thought that since 1993?

[Carl Buechner]

Pretty much. I mean, that's how crazy things were. Like. Yeah, it. It's like, okay, you know, you heard World War II, never again, never again, never again. I'm like 23, 24 years old, and there's death camps in Europe again. You know what I mean? Sure. I'm watching the police not show up and guys getting smacked with bricks, you know, and everything's on fire and the police are staying home, you know, and it was just getting crazier and crazier. I was like, this. This is not a game, you know, this is real. Like, we have to be a brotherhood and a sisterhood and stick together, because like I said, you know, I feel like we're just headed into more and more dangerous times.

[Colin]

Amen.

[Bo]

Wow.

[Colin]

Including right now.

[Carl Buechner]

And I don't. And I don't want that, you know, I want to heal the world. I want unity between people and the hardcore scene I grew up in that I helped be a part of putting, you know, was. It was the opposite of cancel culture. It was inclusive culture, you know, you didn't have to think the exact same way to be my friend, you know, And Freya, that was part of Freya, too. It's like, we got this band that I want everybody to play in, you know, we can be its own. It can be its own tribe. If you're free, come with us, you know, and if you want to drink, you can drink. I'm going to be driving, so you'll be fine. You know what I mean?

[Bo]

I mean, one thing. Thing that I do, and I've always admired about Earth Crisis is that it's not nihilistic. It's like. No, no, it's like.

[Colin]

Yeah, it's very optimistic.

[Bo]

Whether you agree with us or not, here is how we think you can fix yourself or fix things. And that's kind of rare, you know? Like, it's easy to. To write nihilistically. It's easy to be like. Yeah, it's all, you know.

[Carl Buechner]

Right.

[Bo]

That's an easier path of least resistance.

[Carl Buechner]

In many ways. Yeah.

[Colin]

Something we talked about during that interview we did many years ago now. Carl was. And that I'd like to leave this on before we get to some questions from our Patreon people.

[Carl Buechner]

Okay.

[Colin]

I want to talk about the bunker. Carl, this is. I'm officially. I'm doing the call in public. Who do we still got? What new bands are going in the bunker. Bunker at the bunker, of course. Meaning who is still straight edge and in the apocalypse, who are we saving?

[Carl Buechner]

We're gonna save everybody we can. And I'll tell you what. Paulie from Storm, still straight edge. Chuck from Black Sheep Squadron, he's a lifer, okay? The guy's in perfect murder up in Canada. We've got undying in North Carolina. All still edge.

[Colin]

Who have we lost in the past three years? Who. Which. What Straight Edge in memoriams can we do since 2022?

[Carl Buechner]

Well, we lost Isaac from forest to the Grim Reaper.

[Bo]

Oh, geez. Really?

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah. I think he got hit on a motorcycle.

[Colin]

Oh, that's devastating.

[Carl Buechner]

Yes. And we love chorus. I mean, that big. That big chorus inspired the Path column album cover. The first one.

[Bo]

Really?

[Carl Buechner]

If you go back and look at the Course of Disapproval album, that. That was the source of the image.

[Colin]

Wow. That's amazing.

[Bo]

Awesome.

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah.

[Colin]

Well, I didn't mean that.

[Bo]

Yeah, Rip.

[Colin]

I didn't mean the actual.

[Carl Buechner]

No, I don't. I don't keep tabs on. On the Edge breakers or the sellouts. I don't.

[Colin]

You keep tabs on. On the new. The new Blood the Pike. What's. What are some modern straight edge bands? You want new straight edge bands, you want in the bunker with us?

[Carl Buechner]

We're gonna have clear cut from Germany.

[Colin]

Okay.

[Bo]

Okay.

[Colin]

You need. We need some Germans to keep us on our toes. So that makes sense.

[Carl Buechner]

We do keep things.

[Colin]

We gotta stay. We gotta stay humble, you know?

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah. Keep things organized. Eco strike.

[Colin]

Yeah, of course.

[Carl Buechner]

Nomad.

[Colin]

Okay.

[Carl Buechner]

There's a. Oh, boy. There's a new straight edge band from Syracuse with a girl singing.

[Colin]

Oh, really? Is that. I don't want to say the wrong band.

[Bo]

Yeah, it's.

[Carl Buechner]

It's X. Oh man.

[Colin]

Love it already.

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah, I'll look it up. Up. I'll look it up.

[Colin]

We got, we got fire starter Carl. We got fired there.

[Carl Buechner]

Okay.

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah. So I mean there's, there's plenty so big.

[Colin]

Got a bit. The bunker's getting. The bunker was getting small for a while.

[Carl Buechner]

Siver from Japan.

[Bo]

Okay, cool.

[Colin]

Thank. That's awesome.

[Bo]

We need them. Yeah. Oh, that's something I wanted to ask you about, Carl, if you're, if you're done with the bunker.

[Carl Buechner]

Are we. Is the bunker full?

[Colin]

Cannot possibly be full. We need more.

[Bo]

We need more.

[Carl Buechner]

Okay.

[Colin]

We need more square footage.

[Carl Buechner]

I, I gave you some. Give me some. I'm ready.

[Bo]

Say I gave you a fire starter.

[Colin]

I need in the bunkers.

[Bo]

Magnitudes in the bunker. They're young. Of course they're hungry. Edgman.

[Carl Buechner]

Yes. Yeah, yes, I saw them.

[Bo]

They were foundation. Foundation can go right in that bunker.

[Carl Buechner]

They're Georgia, right?

[Bo]

Yes sir.

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah, yeah, yep, quality there.

[Colin]

So if you're in a straight edge band, put your name below and we'll see if we can make some room for you in the bunker there.

[Bo]

Colin and I are the doorman for the bunker. We. We'll see if you're on the.

[Colin]

We're the door. Yeah, we, we're there. Sunglasses on.

[Bo]

Just like. Ah, Real, real quick. What I wanted to ask about. Oh yes. Earth Crisis had a DVD which was like crazy to me to learn about in early 2000s when I learned about it. It in it you're playing, you're touring and playing in Japan. And I remember, I think even in the, the DVD there's like this is us in Japan. We're eating rice because it's the only fish heads everywhere.

[Carl Buechner]

And yeah, they go heavy with the seafood.

[Bo]

Yeah, it, it broke my brain. You had heard about bands going to Canada, going to Europe. That was normal. A, a, a hardcore band. Touring Japan seemed like such a reach to me.

[Colin]

Yeah.

[Bo]

As I was young, I didn't think that would even be possible. And I'm just curious about how you find it. How you found it your first time being there and how you managed to, to not starve.

[Carl Buechner]

I think that we were the first American strange band to play Japan. At least the first hardcore strange hardcore band to play Japan.

[Colin]

Wow, that's awesome.

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah.

[Colin]

Thank you for opening the door because now I don't want to play anywhere else.

[Bo]

It's all I want. Want.

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah. It is incredible. You know, we've been to Japan, we've been to Singapore, Indonesia, Australia, but never. We've never Been to Korea yet? Have either you guys been there?

[Bo]

Not been.

[Carl Buechner]

No.

[Colin]

I'm dying to go.

[Bo]

You're trying to play solo?

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah. I would love to go to Korea.

[Colin]

You're going to Brazil tomorrow. That's pretty cool.

[Carl Buechner]

Yep, Brazil is tomorrow. Yeah, it's coming quick.

[Bo]

Awesome. Well, let's not keep you. Let's hit these questions.

[Colin]

Yeah, let's get this.

[Carl Buechner]

Okay. Fire at will.

[Colin]

All right, first question. Watching Earth Crisis sets from the 90s and early 2000s, Carl had a sick ass T shirt collection. Do you still have these crazy pieces? Stuff like Animal Liberation Front designs, et cetera?

[Carl Buechner]

I do, yep. Everything's. Everything's been well taken care of. I basically have like a little museum of all the stuff. And I kept every demo anyone's ever given me too.

[Bo]

Wow. Wow.

[Colin]

Bunk. We need them for the bunker. Let's see here. Tell us about it.

[Carl Buechner]

Could get dull in there. You're right. We need them. Yeah.

[Colin]

We need entertainment other than the Germans. Could you tell us about having Rob Flynn do a guest spot on One Against All?

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Carl Buechner]

I mean, I think the Burning Red is. Is a masterpiece, so.

[Colin]

Burning Red is the masterpiece of the Discoff.

[Bo]

It might be over Burn My Eyes.

[Carl Buechner]

Which is the one that has let freedom ring with a shotgun blast.

[Colin]

That's Burn My Eyes.

[Bo]

Burn My Eyes.

[Carl Buechner]

Okay. Burn My Eyes.

[Colin]

Some burning involved in burns. You're a fire. You're the fire guy.

[Carl Buechner]

It makes sense. They got me with the shotgun blast line. I was like, okay. I love this band.

[Bo]

About Waco. Yeah, about Waco, which you had mentioned before as being kind of, you know, influential to you when it came to lyrics and stuff. So that's.

[Colin]

So did you just reach out cold or was this a Roadrunner connection thing?

[Bo]

Thing.

[Carl Buechner]

I think Scott knew him because Scott had lived in California. Okay. I think that's how that happened.

[Colin]

Very cool.

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah.

[Colin]

Are there any other passions in life that you hold as dearly as you do vegan and straight edge?

[Carl Buechner]

I mean, I have plenty of hobbies. Yeah. I mean, I. I've done everything. I. I mean, I used to play street hockey. I did softball. I did martial arts and fenced. I've done everything. I've done everything. Yeah.

[Colin]

Very cool. What are your top three non major city scenes to play for or were maybe in the 90s?

[Bo]

That's a good one.

[Colin]

Because now everywhere kind of rocks. So, like, what were those underrated places where you'd show up not knowing what the crowd was gonna be like, and then it was just insane.

[Carl Buechner]

Moosik, Pennsylvania, would have to be One of them.

[Colin]

Never heard that name in my whole life.

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah, that was great. Great. We would play there. We play Springfield, Mass. They had a wild scene. Yep.

[Bo]

Well, that's Western Mass. I've played there once.

[Carl Buechner]

Oh, western. Sorry. And Maine. Maine was awesome too.

[Bo]

Wow.

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah, I remember my bass player was jumping and he broke. He broke the stage.

[Bo]

Hell yeah, he was. He's a thick boy.

[Carl Buechner]

He is. Yeah.

[Bo]

Yeah, that makes sense for sure.

[Colin]

So there's this famous photo of a kid in his room with one X on his fist and a bunch of looks like Pluto stuffed animals. Can you confirm or deny whether or not this is you?

[Carl Buechner]

That is me, indeed.

[Bo]

Wow.

[Colin]

You got a pink ombre.

[Carl Buechner]

That's right.

[Colin]

And you're really ahead of your time here. I don't think you even know in what way. Just like I see the singer of a band I'm gonna go see at midnight hour here.

[Bo]

Yeah, like he'd be big in the scram scene.

[Colin]

Yeah. And having the Pluto collection. I feel like people. People would be much more loud and proud about the Pluto collection. Now tell me about. Tell me about this kid seen here. Tell me about the. The origin of this photo too.

[Carl Buechner]

Okay, that was. There's some core stuff on the wall. There's a map of Middle Earth. There's some. Probably some Star wars stuff. And Farzen books.

[Colin]

Yeah, there's all kinds of stuff.

[Carl Buechner]

Lore of the Ring. Yeah, it's.

[Colin]

Yeah. The middle Earth map is right above the convulsion and cramp sticker and next to the fate void rectangle.

[Carl Buechner]

Could. That's right. Yeah. So I mean that's basically what. Before there was. Before there was a flood from the attic that wrecked that room. That's pretty much what it looked like for six straight years. Yeah.

[Colin]

It's a good bed spread too. It looks crazy. This is an incredible picture. I need a new Earth crisis shirt with this picture.

[Bo]

With that picture.

[Carl Buechner]

It's. It's time. It's time.

[Colin]

Is the lore true that the FBI sent warning letters to factory farms upon the release of breed the killers?

[Carl Buechner]

That is true. And that comes directly from. Let's see, Peter Young. Peter Young was an ALF activist that. That freed probably thousands of animals from fur ranches. Vegan straight edge guy from Pacific Northwest. And I'm pretty sure he's the one that told. Told us that.

[Colin]

So this guy's an animal rights legend.

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah. He went to prison for it, unfortunately. For years. But he's since been released and he stayed out of trouble.

[Bo]

Was. Without saying too much. Was anyone in your circle Alleged to have been involved in similar things.

[Carl Buechner]

Well, I mean. I mean, I'm not even comfortable talking about the fight stories as a. As a dad. You know what I mean? It's like, sure, sure. But I will say this. You know, there are reasons why people took our band seriously from you.

[Bo]

Beautiful.

[Colin]

Say no more.

[Bo]

Say no more. Yeah, it's a perfect answer.

[Colin]

Are you still mad at Josta for trying to get you the Shamrock Shake?

[Carl Buechner]

No, I can. I can forgive him. I can forgive him. He's been very good to Freya and Earth Crisis over the years.

[Bo]

Beautiful.

[Colin]

Okay.

[Carl Buechner]

Despite making me pull weeds with his.

[Colin]

Mom in his garden just to see the pygmies. What is, in your experience, the worst experience you've had? Somebody says, with people hating on veganism and. Or shreddish. Like, the personal experience that sticks to you the most of just somebody not getting it.

[Carl Buechner]

The dead mice were a bummer because I worried that somebody got the mice from a pet store and killed them or something, you know, so that was a bummer. Well, you know, I hope that's not the case. I hope they just got taken out of some traps in somebody's grandma's attic or something, you know? Yeah, true, but that was pretty rough.

[Colin]

Now, somebody asked, when it comes to activism, did you know you were setting a standard early?

[Carl Buechner]

I don't know what that means.

[Colin]

Like, you were setting the standard of, like, hey, we're the band. This is what we believe. We're out here doing it. Were there other bands around you doing the same thing?

[Carl Buechner]

I think that Statement and Raid and Vegan Reich had similar views and street justice similar views, but they did not. Not scored nearly to the extent that we did. They did not build catalogs that we did. So I just. We. We got known more for it was.

[Bo]

Was influencing something that you were interested in.

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah, like I said, I'm trying to literally build a tribe.

[Colin]

That's the message. Yeah.

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah.

[Bo]

Beautiful.

[Colin]

Now, somebody said they're moving from the UK to the east coast soon. What are some of your favorite cities and neighborhoods that are havens for vegan food?

[Carl Buechner]

I mean, it's everywhere now. It's so widespread, you don't even need to worry. I mean, you just happy cow your way to nirvana with vegan food.

[Colin]

Are you playing California anytime soon?

[Carl Buechner]

I think we may be out there in October with a couple other bands. We're putting something together now.

[Colin]

Okay. There's a place down this. Right down the street from me, Carl, called El Cocinero. It's a Mexican vegan place.

[Carl Buechner]

Oh, wow.

[Colin]

I'm gonna take you. I might. I might fuck your stomach up for a day, but you're gonna have some of the best stuff you've ever eaten.

[Carl Buechner]

And when you guys come here, doesn't matter what month it is. I want to be your tour guide in Syracuse for an episode of Haunt Lore because there is so many haunted spots and so many awesome Legends within 45 minute drive. Some, like, all within the county. Like, we could do it in a day and it would be a blast.

[Colin]

Carl, that. That of course means that you believe in ghosts, right?

[Carl Buechner]

I hope they're real. I think it'd be fun, but for me.

[Colin]

Yeah, Right? That's a good answer.

[Bo]

That's a good answer. Yeah.

[Colin]

You ever seen one? No, not yet. Not until we come back. Somebody asked some of your best or worst memories from the dark ages of veganism.

[Carl Buechner]

The peanut butter, that was the worst.

[Colin]

Yeah, Melted peanut butter.

[Bo]

So what's the. What's the inverse of that? What's the, like. Oh, oh, I'm so happy we're here. It's 1995.

[Carl Buechner]

Just try any of the restaurants in. In New York City at the time that had vegan stuff. They were all awesome.

[Colin]

Was that like. Did a Boca burger bring you to tears the first time?

[Carl Buechner]

Not me. Not me, though. I'm not that picky.

[Bo]

Oh, okay, I got you. So you'd be happy with like stir fry vegetables?

[Carl Buechner]

Well, no, actually, I want to do a cookbook someday called Vegans Against Vegetables.

[Colin]

Okay.

[Carl Buechner]

Wow.

[Colin]

Vegans for scurvy, baby. I'll be right there with you. Let's get it, dude.

[Carl Buechner]

Vegan for lab. Processed fake meat. That's.

[Bo]

Where do you fall on that? How do you feel about lab?

[Carl Buechner]

In favor. In favor.

[Bo]

Because it's anything to decrease the. The impact on animals, right?

[Carl Buechner]

That's right. Yes.

[Bo]

Okay.

[Colin]

Because here's the thing, man. You do. I don't know any more about anything than Bill Nye does, you know?

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Colin]

And he's. He's the proest GMO guy there is.

[Carl Buechner]

Well, let's not argue with him.

[Colin]

So I want my M's owed, I want my O's. Gm. I should say yes.

[Carl Buechner]

Okay.

[Colin]

What is your all time favorite vegan dessert and where is it from?

[Carl Buechner]

Oh, well, I mean, there's a place here called Strong Hearts and they have awesome cupcakes and stuff, so I. I put them there.

[Bo]

Have you ever had Carl, the. The milkshake from the Chicago Diner?

[Carl Buechner]

I've been to Chicago Diner. Every time we're there. It's awesome. Yeah.

[Bo]

How Good is kept in business for.

[Colin]

About eight years, I'm sure.

[Carl Buechner]

Probably.

[Bo]

I was just gonna say the. The peanut butter cookie dough milkshake is unfucking real.

[Carl Buechner]

I'll try it.

[Colin]

What is one band from the 90s that never got the recognition they deserved?

[Carl Buechner]

Probably Abnegation.

[Colin]

Oh yeah, they're from Abnegation.

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah. The sink. The singer was a Tasmanian devil on stage.

[Bo]

Cool.

[Colin]

Love those.

[Bo]

Yeah, I love those in cartoon form. So I can't.

[Carl Buechner]

Right, yeah.

[Colin]

Let's see, let's see this. This is a good last question. Where do you see the future of hardcore music? Sonically, thematically, lyrically? What do you. What do you want to see?

[Carl Buechner]

What did you guys think of Tied Down Fest? Let me ask you one question first.

[Colin]

I love Tide.

[Bo]

Loved it. Watched your whole set, couldn't believe it.

[Colin]

Had a blast all weekend.

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Colin]

I love Jimmy and Curtis and Mike so much.

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah. That is what I want the future hardcore to be.

[Bo]

Perfect. They're gonna love.

[Colin]

They're gonna love that answer.

[Carl Buechner]

But I mean, I saw. I mean, I had a great time hanging out with everybody.

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Carl Buechner]

You know, and the show was awesome. The energy was awesome. It was really well run. There was all kinds of bands. Yeah, it was. That's. That's what it needs to be beautiful.

[Colin]

A diverse lineup, 2,000 kids going crazy.

[Bo]

Yep.

[Carl Buechner]

No. No fights, no injuries. It was beautiful. It was a beautiful weekend. Yeah.

[Colin]

Totally agree. Great answer. Let's go out with one very important thing, Carl. What are your top four hardcore records of all time?

[Carl Buechner]

Well, you know what? They are, but we'll, we'll say it. We'll say it. Chromape's Age of Coral, Agnostic Front, One Voice, Killing Time, Bright side and Marauder Master Killer.

[Bo]

New York City, baby.

[Colin]

Thank you. Thank you, Carl. Let's, let's let's one more time. The Unraveling. The Council of Crows will be out in stores.

[Bo]

Earth Day.

[Colin]

Probably near you.

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Colin]

This Earth Day you are seeing the new creative endeavor.

[Bo]

Yeah. Hold that up. Is that the.

[Carl Buechner]

This is the original manuscript.

[Colin]

See that?

[Carl Buechner]

And what this is, is a short story that I wrote years ago that I developed into a full fledged story with my friends Jeremy and Keith. They brought all of their creativity, all their devotion and drive to it. And we would meet two to three times a week over the course of years and we built my little story into a world that now is essentially going to be three books.

[Colin]

That little, that little story though, was built in your mind from a lifetime of vegan straight edge activism.

[Carl Buechner]

Yes.

[Colin]

Yeah. This is like this, this Fantastical story about animals dismantling the. The metaphorical and real machines is born out of is somehow the truest form of expression that I could. I see here this is the perfect kind of next chapter of the Earth Crisis story.

[Carl Buechner]

I think so. Because, you know, this is a story that was designed for middle age readers. It's, you know, it has action and adventure, but there is a lot of philosophy woven into the plot and the dialogue and the discussions between the characters. Wow. And it, in some ways is a very unflattering portrayal reflection of how humans have been a very destructive force against the natural world and against the animals.

[Colin]

But more than that's what we need.

[Carl Buechner]

Yes. Because more than being a condemnation, I want it to be corrective. You know, if you. If it's like the old saying, if you stand in somebody else's shoes, if you walk in somebody else's shoes, you'll understand that. And it's from the perspective of these beings that have been abused or exploited. And hopefully it will clarify why compassion is so important. Wow.

[Colin]

And there you have it. That's a beautiful closing statement. Carl, we can't thank you enough for your time today. This was unbelievable.

[Carl Buechner]

Gentlemen, thank you for your music. My son pointed me to your bands.

[Colin]

Hey, look at that.

[Carl Buechner]

Amazing. And I have one question for you, Colin. Were you when Path played in California at that show?

[Colin]

Yes. We know you were at the Key Club or something.

[Carl Buechner]

Were you the guy that was fighting the two bouncers in the corner?

[Colin]

No, I was probably 14 or 15.

[Carl Buechner]

Okay. Because it was a kid. And he got pulled out of the pit by two bouncers. And I remember he was in the corner and he was swinging and swinging and swinging at both these guys that were like, you know, two feet taller than him. And the bouncers were looking at each other, smiling. They're like, yeah, this kid's got it.

[Colin]

That might have been me. There was an incident at a murder fest that I think Earth Crisis or PATH were playing.

[Carl Buechner]

I think it was Path and Fight Everyone. And I think it was you.

[Colin]

Oh, that was me, man. Damn, that's awesome.

[Carl Buechner]

A plastic garbage can went flying, right?

[Colin]

Oh, yeah, that happened all the time. But there was the singer on Fight. Everyone came to my rescue. One of the singers of Fight Everyone came to my rescue at that show. And I'm sure he wouldn't mind me telling this.

[Carl Buechner]

We don't have to put it in the thing if it gets anybody.

[Colin]

No, this is awesome. This is like one of the coolest things I've ever seen was he had one of the guys that was trying to rough me up, he had him by like. He had long hair.

[Carl Buechner]

Yeah.

[Colin]

So he had a chunk of his hair in his hand and hit him so hard that the chunk of hair remained in his hand. And the guy was on the floor while he had this giant chunk of scalp. He scalped him. He hit him so hard. He scalped him. So thank you. Thank you, Zach, for that. That was nice. That's crazy, man. Do you remember that? I had no recollection of that.

[Bo]

Wow.

[Carl Buechner]

I was like, I want that guy for the track. We need him.

[Colin]

I've been in it ever since. Dude, I used to mosh my underwear. The Path of Resistance.

[Bo]

I was crazy.

[Colin]

So I've been here, man.

[Carl Buechner]

I'm telling you, Kid's got the fighting spirit. We need them.

[Colin]

I do. Thank you. I appreciate that. Carl. This was beautiful. That was a fun note to end on. You're really. I gotta do some critical thinking now.

[Carl Buechner]

And tell your brother to rethink his verdict on the Earth crisis. Verdict? Push button warfare.

[Colin]

I will. So you would say Earth crisis?

[Carl Buechner]

No, but it just hurts a loose.

[Colin]

Doesn't it always? But thank you, Carl. This was incredible. Thank you all for listening. Earth Crisis. Freya. The Unraveling, the Council, the Crows. Path of Resistance. There's so much of Carl's work out there for you to check out. So much of it that we love. Thank you all for listening. Thank you all for watching. We will see you next week.

[Carl Buechner]

Bye.