Mac Miller (Cosmic Joke)

Summary

HardLore Podcast Summary: Episode Featuring Mac Miller – "Cosmic Joke"

Release Date: July 3, 2025

In this engaging episode of HardLore, hosts Colin Young and Bo Lueders welcome the esteemed guest Mac Miller, renowned for his contributions to the hardcore, punk, and metal scenes through his bands Cosmic Joke and Holy Blade. The conversation spans Mac’s transformative journey in music, the intricacies of touring life, and his insights into the merchandising industry, all woven with personal anecdotes and reflections.

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1. Changing Perspectives with "Cosmic Joke" and "Holy Blade"

Mac Miller opens the discussion by reflecting on how his recent projects have reshaped his approach to music and touring. He emphasizes the shift from viewing music as merely a job to pursuing what truly makes him happy.

Mac Miller [00:00]: "Honestly, doing the Cosmic Joke stuff and Holy Blade stuff has kind of changed my perspective where I'm like, I just want to do this stuff that makes me happy now."

He conveys a newfound desire to avoid burnout and focus on meaningful work.

Mac Miller [00:18]: "I don't want to just grind myself into the ground doing work just to work on tours I don't want to do."

2. Building Relationships and Band Dynamics

The hosts and Mac delve into their long-standing relationships within the music scene, comparing their initial interactions to classic rivalries.

Mac Miller [03:06]: "We never crossed paths. We were in the same room half a billion times."

They recount humorous moments and the evolution from peripheral acquaintances to close friends, highlighting the camaraderie that forms through shared experiences.

3. The Genesis and Evolution of "Cosmic Joke"

Mac provides an in-depth look at the formation of Cosmic Joke, detailing the songwriting process that began years prior and solidified during the pandemic. The band’s DIY ethic and commitment to contributing meaningfully to the scene are evident.

Mac Miller [08:46]: "The whole thing, how that came together is pretty interesting or, or boring. But basically during the pandemic, Morgan and I and Vince started writing some songs..."

He discusses their decision to leave conventions behind, focusing instead on genuine musical creation and community involvement.

4. Touring Tales: Warped Tour and DIY Challenges

A significant portion of the episode covers Mac’s extensive touring experiences, particularly with the Warped Tour. He shares vivid memories of the logistical challenges, from vehicle breakdowns to late-night merch counts, painting a realistic picture of the touring grind.

Mac Miller [41:35]: "I would nap on a duffel bag of merch under the merch table."

The hosts and Mac reminisce about the camaraderie forged on the road and the enduring friendships formed despite the hardships.

5. Navigating Label Deals: The Media Scare Experience

Mac recounts his tumultuous stint with Media Scare, describing it as a period marked by poor communication and mismanagement. The experience ultimately led Cosmic Joke to sever ties and pursue independent releases, underscoring the importance of aligning with supportive labels.

Mac Miller [52:17]: "We tore our ass. We worked really hard... we worked really hard DIY touring."

6. Connections with Fellow Musicians and Artists

The episode highlights Mac’s interactions with various artists and bands, including meaningful encounters with members of The Acacia Strain and unexpected friendships with established musicians like Rob Thomas. These connections illustrate the interconnectedness and mutual support within the music community.

Mac Miller [44:22]: "What a great way to meet people and build friendships that last a lifetime."

7. Merchandising Insights: Challenges and Best Practices

As a seasoned merch professional, Mac offers valuable insights into the merchandising industry. He discusses the complexities of merch cuts, inventory management, and the disparities faced by support acts compared to headliners.

Mac Miller [82:58]: "I do think merch cuts have gotten absolutely out of control. I think at some of the festivals, it's like 30%."

He advocates for fairer practices and encourages bands to negotiate better terms to support their merch crews effectively.

8. Personal Reflections: Appearance and Beliefs

Mac opens up about his personal choices regarding appearance, such as shaving his head and maintaining a mustache, tying these decisions to personal experiences and his father’s battle with cancer.

Mac Miller [53:30]: "I shaved my head for the first time on the Casualties tour."

He also touches on his spiritual beliefs, identifying as more agnostic than atheist, and reflecting on the nature of existence and energy.

Mac Miller [107:50]: "I'm more agnostic than atheist."

9. Favorite Bands and Musical Influences

Mac shares his top four favorite hardcore records, highlighting influential bands like Minor Threat, Bad Religion, and The Unseen. He also discusses his appreciation for ska and punk covers, illustrating his deep-rooted passion for the genre.

Mac Miller [101:31]: "I'd say Minor Threat, out of Step Hate, Brief Brutality."

10. Future Endeavors and Closing Thoughts

Looking ahead, Mac talks about the future of Cosmic Joke, expressing a desire to continue touring and releasing music while balancing personal happiness and professional commitments.

Mac Miller [96:25]: "We have the most fun in the world doing it. It's all of our favorite things that we can't do all the time."

He emphasizes the enduring joy and fulfillment the band derives from their music and shared experiences.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Mac Miller [00:00]: "I just want to do this stuff that makes me happy now."
• Mac Miller [10:13]: "We started writing some songs, Morgan and I, a While before, like 2017, started jamming some songs just for fun after our old band was done."
• Mac Miller [41:35]: "I would nap on a duffel bag of merch under the merch table."
• Mac Miller [52:17]: "We tore our ass. We worked really hard... DIY touring."
• Mac Miller [82:58]: "I do think merch cuts have gotten absolutely out of control. I think at some of the festivals, it's like 30%."

Conclusion

This HardLore episode offers a comprehensive and intimate look into Mac Miller’s journey within the hardcore and punk scenes. From the formation of Cosmic Joke and the relentless challenges of touring to navigating complex label deals and offering professional merchandising advice, Mac shares invaluable insights and heartfelt stories. The conversation not only highlights the gritty realities of band life but also celebrates the enduring friendships and personal growth that come from dedicating oneself to music and community.

For those passionate about the hardcore/punk/metal scenes or aspiring musicians seeking real-world advice, this episode serves as a rich resource filled with authentic experiences and practical knowledge.

Transcript

[Mac Miller]

Honestly, doing the Cosmic Joke stuff and Holy Blade stuff has kind of changed my perspective where I'm like, I just want to do this stuff that makes me happy now. I don't need to just like, yes, it's my job and I'm fortunate enough to like my job, but I don't want to just grind myself into the ground doing work just to work on tours I don't want to do.

[Bo]

Totally.

[Mac Miller]

And when I go out with Drain or when I go with Denzel Curry, it feels like home. And it feels like it's obviously cushier than the van tours we've all done, but you're with these people with like minded sensibilities and it feels like home.

[Bo]

Hello, welcome. It's hardor Time. How you doing, Bo?

[Colin]

I'm great, Colin. Who do we got?

[Mac Miller]

Me.

[Bo]

First ever. Me on the show. This is a big day. We've got. We've got a very special guest here. Fresh off the release of their new ep Force Perspective. We got one of my best friends in the world. Some refer to him as my consul Yeti. Many refer to him as the real Mac Miller. Ladies and gentlemen, Mac Miller, Cosmic Joke.

[Colin]

Wow.

[Bo]

Welcome.

[Colin]

Wow.

[Mac Miller]

Happy to be here.

[Bo]

You got a big ass.

[Mac Miller]

Oh, yeah. No, I've been on Britney trying to get her to.

[Bo]

What is that?

[Mac Miller]

It's like.

[Colin]

Jesus christ.

[Mac Miller]

It's like 10 years in the making.

[Bo]

Oh my God. Sorry, man. I never. I hang out with this guy every day. I've never touched his back before. And that's. And that's on me. That's on me. Welcome. Yeah, welcome here. How you doing?

[Mac Miller]

Good. Happy to be here. I. Yeah, I need to get this cyst on my back squeeze, apparently.

[Bo]

But you know, you really do.

[Colin]

Mac, this is great timing. Crazy timing. I got something from you today. A little test press for the brand new Cosmic Joke record. How about that?

[Bo]

I feel like we should maybe give one of those away.

[Colin]

Not this one.

[Bo]

No, not that one. I've got one that we can give away.

[Colin]

Okay, that's fine.

[Bo]

If you are watching this episode and you want a forced perspective test, press send us a message on Instagram of you doing a break dance. Send a break dance back.

[Colin]

That's really good.

[Bo]

And the winner. Actually, no, post it. Post it as a reel so we can share.

[Colin]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right.

[Bo]

So you posted as a reel and the best one will get a breakdance.

[Mac Miller]

Do we need Sammy to judge on that?

[Bo]

Sammy will. Sammy from Drain will be a judge as the breakdance master. But you know the challenging part here is when you have somebody you talk to and see damn near every day on your talk show.

[Colin]

Yeah.

[Bo]

Where do you start? And I think we should start with meeting each other and getting to know each other, because for so long, I feel like we were peripheral, silent rivals in a way.

[Colin]

Oh, yeah, that's interesting.

[Mac Miller]

I. Yeah, it's funny. I. It's one of those people that you're constantly ask like, well, you know, calling. Right. Like, you know, we know who each other are for sure. But, you know, but yeah, it was like the. The Millers and the Youngs, the Montagues Capulets.

[Bo]

We never. We never crossed paths. We were in the same room half a billion times.

[Mac Miller]

Easily the amount of times Nikki, drummer of Cosmic Joke, chef of Little fish, pointed out the. Oh, there's that life is pain guy. Every single time we saw him hitting some guy wearing a marauder shirt, spin kicking someone in the head.

[Colin]

Yeah.

[Mac Miller]

Hard to believe life is pain and blazing across his back.

[Bo]

I am who I says I am, like, legit.

[Mac Miller]

Since we were probably 16, 15 something.

[Colin]

100% Mac. When did we meet? We met very recently.

[Mac Miller]

Like, yes.

[Colin]

The show is existing that recent, which is also kind of crazy.

[Bo]

You like me. Bo gotten got to know Britney first. Max.

[Colin]

Dude, did I ever.

[Bo]

Brittany. Brittany really made it happen. She's the. She's the goat. Our wives becoming friends is kind of what Right. Brought us together here.

[Mac Miller]

And, well, I feel like so going to the Cobalt Cafe, as it's been talked about many times. Oh, yeah. Growing up, me and my brother Morgan, who plays in Cosmic Joke, and my other brother, actually Evan, all played in like a ska punk band. And you guys were on in Ruckus and all these other fight.

[Colin]

Everyone just like the polar opposite end of that spectrum.

[Bo]

Yeah, we kind of played together a.

[Mac Miller]

Lot, which is hilarious. So it was just like. And we had. Even though we were. It's all punk rock at the end of the day, like, it's all. And. But we were constantly like. I don't know if you guys were thinking the same thing, but I was like, oh, those are like the jocks who hate us. And we're like the. The neish little, like, you know.

[Bo]

That's 100% what I thought.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, but.

[Bo]

But, dude, I. I think what it was was Morgan was literally 9 years old.

[Mac Miller]

Oh, yeah.

[Bo]

Playing guitar. And on one hand I'm like, that's so cool.

[Colin]

Yeah.

[Bo]

And on the other hand, I'm like, this dwee is so much better than me. A guitar.

[Mac Miller]

Which is still.

[Bo]

He's still so Good at stuff and.

[Mac Miller]

He knows it, so. He's a piece of shit.

[Bo]

This is his brother.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah, that guy.

[Colin]

He can say whatever he wants.

[Mac Miller]

Want to demonetize you guys?

[Bo]

No, no, you're fine. We're past that point. Piss. Yeah, we're good. And so Britney brought us together. You were on tour all the time. He's a professional merch man. We'll get there.

[Colin]

Probably the most. The most pro merch guy I know.

[Bo]

Oh, 100%.

[Colin]

I think you're. You're the top of the top of.

[Mac Miller]

The ladder, you know, I mean, there's like a tier above where you're doing stadiums, and I. Honestly, that just sounds exhausting.

[Colin]

Yeah, that's.

[Bo]

And you're not even selling when you're doing that, so it's like, what's the.

[Colin]

That's posh. You're. You' working class. You know?

[Bo]

Exactly. You're the cock sp of merch guys. So we get brought together, you know. You were on tour all the time. Me and Brittany are hanging out every day. And I'm like. I'm, like, worried for you to get home because I'm like, this guy. I don't know, this guy really disrupt the vibe.

[Colin]

Yeah.

[Bo]

What if he hates me and Brittany? Got a great thing going on? And then you get home and it's just like, immediate. Immediate brotherhood here. I didn't get to go to your wedding, which everybody on else I know in the world went to. I don't think that's fair.

[Mac Miller]

Funny how, like, a solid 80% of people we really hang with, often we're not there, though.

[Bo]

Like, it's up.

[Colin]

Yeah.

[Mac Miller]

And how many people I've not seen since then.

[Colin]

Maybe you should just do another one.

[Mac Miller]

Many are saying.

[Bo]

I'm mostly saying I. I'd be there.

[Colin]

I'd go for sure.

[Bo]

Yeah. Not fest presents. Let's get this wedding going.

[Mac Miller]

The Miller.

[Bo]

What's the fart video from your wedding Fart video?

[Mac Miller]

Oh, no, that's. That's Evan Miller, middle brother.

[Bo]

Okay.

[Mac Miller]

His wedding up in Portland. I'm not gonna share the videos, but. Well, we could share one of the videos. Just show me the phone. He got absolutely smashed. You can see it here. Yeah, he got absolutely smashed at his own wedding. And Morgan, I had to, like, carry him out of his car to his doorstep. And there's a ring camera video of us trying to pick him up. And you hear a fart and Morgan just. And we just look at each other. Dude.

[Bo]

And that's what it's all about.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah.

[Colin]

Did you guys become Friends over Covid. Wasn't it? It wasn't it like way more recent?

[Mac Miller]

Yeah, like I had been touring again. But it was. I think it was the first tours back.

[Bo]

Yeah, it was probably. It was, it was around 2022.

[Mac Miller]

2022.

[Bo]

I think it was kind of close to the beginning of Harlow.

[Colin]

Yeah.

[Bo]

Really, we really hit it off.

[Mac Miller]

Cuz it's funny, even though we weren't. We'd known of each other for 15 years before. We had so many coinciding memories of the same things from different points of view that were not shared together and that.

[Bo]

That completely aligned. Yeah, we're all the same.

[Colin]

It's like the moral here, you know.

[Bo]

It'S just like the Prestige. I'm Christian Bale, he's Christian Bale, you're Scarlett Johansson, baby. Brutal.

[Colin]

Yeah. Well that's really fascinating that.

[Bo]

And two years later we start a label just to put out that first Cosmic Joke, self titled. Tell me about. Let's start. Let's do this a little differently than we normally do. Tell Me about Cosmic Joke, self titled. Putting It Together. I think Kamikaze is one of the greatest punk songs of this, this generation so far. You put, you demoed it on the Focus, right? I gave you. You demoed the drums on the E Kid. I gave you. You listened to it with the headphones I gave you that you're wearing now.

[Mac Miller]

Hand me downs. Yeah, I mean we. The whole thing, how that came together is pretty interesting or, or boring. But. But basically during the pandemic, Morgan and I and Vince, who kind of plays with us still from Oxnard Legend, Dead Heat, Souvenirs fame, the mayor of Oxnard vchc. We started writing some songs, Morgan and I, a While before, like 2017, started jamming some songs just for fun after our old band was done. And during the pandemic, Vince and I started writing some songs. We were like, these go well with those songs. Let's just put it together. It became the Cosmic Joke demo. And then at some point, Tied Down Fest started. Jimmy, who runs Edgeman, Tied down longtime friend, was like, I love the demo. I need you to have you guys come play my fest. And we're like, what? Yeah, we're like, we've played literally one show. The whole thing was do this, you know, let's put it out, demo for fun. We're done being in bands, right? Maybe we'll play occasionally with friends when they come through town. And then Jimmy asks us to come to Detroit. We're like, well, I'm not gonna not go. Yeah, but I don't want to go out there to play five minutes of music and have our second show be in Michigan. So we like started writing a bunch, played as many shows as we could before just to make it feel less like taking someone else's spot.

[Bo]

Sure.

[Mac Miller]

Selfless.

[Colin]

Very selfless.

[Mac Miller]

Well, it's just like. I don't know. I don't want to. I want to contribute if we're going to be a part of this.

[Colin]

Totally. Sure love it.

[Mac Miller]

So we, yeah, we wrote five more songs and somewhere in that time is when we became friends. We asked Taylor about recording and then, you know, instead of just putting out another four songs we're like. Well it kind of similar to this new ep. We're like, there's a whole B side. Let's make it the demo.

[Bo]

These are all new leads for a more substantial physical.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah. And like nobody heard the demo except Jimmy apparently. So we were like, this is all new to most people. Let's just make it a record.

[Bo]

Totally.

[Mac Miller]

And.

[Bo]

And it's a sick record. You can barely buy it anymore. Out of press.

[Mac Miller]

I think we have 10 copies left. Unless random stores have like a copy here and there.

[Bo]

You heard it here. You have to get from him. You finally played Sound and Fury last year. How was that after going to all but the first one?

[Mac Miller]

I think we did. I didn't go to the Ventura years. I went when I moved to Oxnard. So it was like the.

[Bo]

Yeah, you miss. You missed three.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah. I mean dream come true. That fest changed everything for me. I went every year since then. I was watched Trash Talk in the U Haul. I was there for the trash can getting thrown through the window. It's like. I don't know, it just. It felt really cool to do it at all. To do it. Still playing with my brother and Nikki on drums who was in the sheds as well. Um, I don't know, it just. It was a really cool culmination of everything. And by that point we had done a little tour on our own. We'd been doing some stuff, put out an lp. So it didn't feel. It felt right versus felt earned. Yes. Yes.

[Bo]

And the set was good.

[Colin]

Dude.

[Mac Miller]

Shocking.

[Colin]

When I. I was watching on that the like middle the viewer stage. I was watching Colin watch you guys and it was getting me pumped, you know what I mean? Like it was just like a really nice. Because you guys had a really good reaction. Did you open the fest?

[Mac Miller]

Yeah, we opened the whole thing. It was a really cool choice. That sound of Fury. Let there be two hours between doors in our set so that you could really get people in there. Awesome. I mean, obviously they're learning every year from the year before. Yeah, it just, it, you know, we were all like, we're just happy to be here. That's kind of like our motto. My motto in general. I'm just happy to be here. Of course, if people stop with us, I still having fun. I don't care. I just doing.

[Bo]

I think they've just started with you.

[Mac Miller]

So you. Yeah, don't worry about it.

[Bo]

We're just getting.

[Colin]

You just put out a record today, Mac, for God's sake.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah, but we, you know, we're doing things a little, a little bit differently and playing what we want to play. And if people don't care, like, it's cool that people are still giving us opportunities and we have friends in high places and we.

[Bo]

Lord, are they ever. Because like now that you're not, you're done touring kind of as a musician and you're, you're getting more offers than it's the sheds seemingly ever did.

[Mac Miller]

I know we're working a third as hard, but, but yeah, it's just, I, I. It was really cool to, you know, we were gonna, we were stoked to just. Even if there's nobody out there, we were excited to play.

[Bo]

Sure.

[Mac Miller]

And to see that it was walk up on stage and it's pretty much.

[Bo]

Yeah, it was dope.

[Mac Miller]

Like as packed as you can expect for a 2pm set. It was great.

[Bo]

Punk is back. Force Perspective is out today. It's a great record. Tell me about, tell me about putting that together. The title track, I've described as.

[Mac Miller]

It's.

[Bo]

I mean, you're keeping Tony Hawk's dream alive here.

[Colin]

Yeah.

[Bo]

You're creating perfect 2000s teen. We were doing this bit earlier today while we were getting coffee of like a movie where a teenager's like get listening to Forced Perspective being like, get out of my room, Mom.

[Colin]

Yeah.

[Bo]

And then the mom comes in and she's like, stop jacking off.

[Mac Miller]

And he's like, dad, Jack's off.

[Bo]

I'll never stop jacking off, Mom.

[Mac Miller]

Perfect jack off music. You heard it here first.

[Bo]

So tell me about that record. Putting it together.

[Mac Miller]

We just. This baseline came to mind.

[Bo]

Yeah, I figured.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah. Yeah. And we just were getting together to write. Like there was no, I don't know. We just kept getting together to write. We finally like got a, A practice space that is ours and we can keep stuff set up in. And that's a game changer with the homie. The homies Bad son, Bad Sons 818.

[Bo]

Shout out Bad Records.

[Colin]

Going from having a thing that you have to set up and tear down every time, including drums, to having just symbols set up.

[Bo]

Oh, that sounds awesome.

[Mac Miller]

Unbelievable, man.

[Colin]

It is.

[Mac Miller]

That sounds nice.

[Colin]

That's huge.

[Mac Miller]

But, yeah, we just kind of. I. We didn't necessarily write, like, thinking it would be an EP or an lp. We just kept writing and we hit a place where, like, this is a good amount of songs.

[Bo]

It happened fast.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah.

[Bo]

Yeah. I was jealous.

[Mac Miller]

And what's cool is, like you said, giving me the electric drum kit and everything, I was able to demo all the songs out. So, like, when we write it, our process is usually Morgan and Morgan, Nikki and I have written together for 15. Yeah, almost 20, actually. 20 years, like, actually.

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Mac Miller]

So they kind of come up with the bones of a song. We all contribute and, like, give our two cents and stuff. But then as we demo it, then I can write vocals over it. And then we adjust the drums and accents and stuff to fit the vocal fit with the vocals instead of them just sitting on top.

[Bo]

And that's all you do, folks.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah, just, you know, being conscious of, like, what is a good. What really helps.

[Colin]

Just two passes. Two passes. Like, if you ever. If you ever listen to a really popular song and you notice that there's, like, percussive things or little guitar licks that match the vocals. It's not an accident.

[Bo]

No. And that happened last minute.

[Colin]

Yeah.

[Bo]

We just finished vocals. Rivers, can you make the lead match the chorus now?

[Mac Miller]

Yeah. For some reason, the vocals keep accenting. On three. Everything should go with it.

[Bo]

Perfect. Yeah. Beautiful. All right, let's. Let's go back in time here. Tell me about finding punk and hardcore and ska in Agora Hills, California.

[Mac Miller]

So, I mean, for me, I never had an old head at all. I. I guess. I mean, I had a babysitter, which is the OG old head who showed me Blink 182 when I was like, 9 or something.

[Colin]

Catalyst, dude.

[Bo]

That'll do it.

[Mac Miller]

And, yeah, because I was. That was one of the few bands, you know, before that, as a kid, you get into whatever you're exposed to. So there's Backstreet Boys at the time.

[Colin]

Yeah.

[Mac Miller]

In sync. And it's. That's all you know.

[Bo]

I had an older brother who was like, don't.

[Mac Miller]

Don't.

[Bo]

Don't you dare put that on. And then I grew up and I put that on.

[Colin]

Yeah. Meanwhile, me and Mac are tearing up my heart.

[Bo]

Yeah. I didn't get to tear my heart till I was 28.

[Mac Miller]

But, yeah, through Blink, I, like, heard about Warp Tour and I remember just begging to go. And I didn't have any friends into punk anything. Like, I didn't. I didn't really know what it was I was into, to be honest. It was like, I like this. I don't know much about it. So my aunt ended up taking me to the ventura Warp Tour, 2004.

[Bo]

I actually have a photo of your outfit from that. Here it is.

[Colin]

Wow.

[Bo]

Pretty good.

[Colin]

Quite a choice.

[Bo]

Yeah, it looks like you had your figured out.

[Mac Miller]

Well, like, I. I was like, oh, I hear that the Sex Pistols is punk here. Let's get a clearance shirt at Hot Topic.

[Bo]

Yeah, sure.

[Mac Miller]

Oh, Chain wallet. That's punk. I'll take that. Or I was skating a little too. So, like I said, there's some marriage between this stuff.

[Bo]

But you had hair at that time.

[Mac Miller]

I did. I really did.

[Bo]

It ain't right, you with hair.

[Colin]

We'll get there. We'll get there.

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Mac Miller]

Here's my eighth grade graduation photo.

[Bo]

Here's him with two Cooters waitresses.

[Mac Miller]

But, yeah, so go. I go to Warp Tour, just me and my aunt. She goes to Reverse Daycare for the day. And again, I think I went to. By then, I had heard, like, Sugar Cult, maybe Newfound Glory, like, a couple things, but was mostly going, like, for Warped Tour. Not for any bands.

[Colin]

Yeah.

[Mac Miller]

And I remember walking up and seeing, like, literally, like, noon. I walk up and I see Anti Flag playing redacted.

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Mac Miller]

And a sea of middle fingers in the air. And I'm just like, that's the coolest thing I've ever seen.

[Bo]

That's me.

[Mac Miller]

Like, Bouncing Souls plays Next Bad Religion PLAYS Drop Kick Murphy's no Effects, Lars and the Bastards. Like, it was like, oh, this is me now. Suicide Machines. Like, yeah, it just changed everything. And it's funny because at the time I always talk about this. Basically, if it was at Warp Tour, I was like, oh, this is punk. So I didn't. I was also, like, Taking Back Sunday. Yeah, that was. She played a few years later. But, yeah, Taking Back Sunday less than Jake Valiant Thor. I was like, this is all punk. Punk music. And I like all of it. The use, whatever.

[Colin]

I mean, you weren't, like, wrong.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah.

[Colin]

I mean, it's just a broad stroke.

[Mac Miller]

And I still kind of maintain that. Like, even, you know, when Joke plays with God's hate and it's the same thing. It's all punk music. Yeah.

[Colin]

Yeah.

[Mac Miller]

You know, 100. But, yeah, that day changed everything for me. I was just Obsessed. There was like, booths where you could. They had. You know, they used to have these kiosks and, like, weird setups at Warp Tour where you could just burn a CD of free songs. Like, Cy One Dummy would have a tent. And I just get. Here's five Casualties songs and three Street Dog songs. Whatever, really. And I just. It was absorbing everything.

[Colin]

What a concept.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah, it was. I mean, it was burns. Yeah. You could, like, pick from their computer of the library of songs from CY1 dummy and like, burn a bunch of stuff. You know, it's also 2004 culture in Southern California.

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Mac Miller]

So around here, I'm still. I've always, you know, I'm listening to kroc and I start recognizing, like. Oh, Face to Face is on the radio all the time. Bad religions on the radio all the time.

[Bo]

2004.

[Mac Miller]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely.

[Bo]

Bangers.

[Mac Miller]

And, you know, I just. I start recognizing these things and, like, latching on to what it is I like and don't like. So 2004 is my first warp tour. 2005, we kind of realized, like, oh, anybody can play an instrument. You can just start a band.

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Mac Miller]

So me and my brothers, all three of us, started a band, which is this.

[Bo]

This is the Not.

[Mac Miller]

I. I don't know if it ever even lasted a day as the Shitheads, but we.

[Bo]

Your. Your. Your parents really you out of that.

[Mac Miller]

They really did.

[Bo]

The Shithead, the Sheds were. Were for. I guess for less than one day called the Shitheads. Well, and I cannot tell you how different your trajectory.

[Mac Miller]

We also wanted to be the Skid Mark trio.

[Bo]

That also would have popped.

[Colin]

Well, the Shit. The Shitheads were already a punk band, so you would have.

[Mac Miller]

You'd have never heard, but I'm sure.

[Bo]

They were Joey Tango.

[Colin]

Joey.

[Mac Miller]

Okay.

[Colin]

Joey Shit from DOA got that name from.

[Mac Miller]

He was that before doa.

[Colin]

Yeah.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah. Oh, I didn't even know. Yeah.

[Bo]

So that's expired. You would have taken it and you would have been fine.

[Mac Miller]

Oh, they would have seen Expire.

[Bo]

You could have been Expire. You really would have saved a lot of people a lot of trouble with that one.

[Mac Miller]

Stephen.

[Colin]

Stephen, now.

[Bo]

Stephen, leave it.

[Mac Miller]

But, yeah, we. Yeah, we start the Sheds and it's, you know, everybody. You guys, I know you always talk about, like, your first bands and stuff, and that's like. But we just stayed that for 10 years.

[Bo]

What was the first show you ever played?

[Mac Miller]

So the first show we ever played was at the Sierra Madre Bandshell, which is a small town, like, near Pasadena and Altadena, called The Wisteria Festival. And it was like a flower festival in this hippie town where we played with a cover band called the Aluminum Marshmallow. That was like this. The singer of that band had opened, like, a. They recorded our first demo because, you know, when we were 12 and 9 years old and stuff, my mom, like, found them online. Sure. This is a place in town that will record your record. Okay.

[Colin]

Okay.

[Mac Miller]

And we recorded, like, a cover of Holiday by Green Day, which came out a year before Cocaine by Eric Clapton.

[Bo]

Oh.

[Mac Miller]

And an instrumental that was, like, three chords, you know.

[Bo]

Very sick.

[Mac Miller]

There it is. No, no.

[Colin]

Mom and. Mom and aunt sound pretty dope. They sound pretty supportive.

[Mac Miller]

Everyone. I. Most supportive family we could have had. We. My aunt is. It's my dad's cousin, actually, who we treat as our aunt. She's still around, but the homie Bonnie. Yeah. Yeah. She's nuts. It's awesome. She's.

[Colin]

Shout out Bonnie.

[Mac Miller]

She's. She's like a John Mulaney caricature of, like, a New York Jew.

[Bo]

She may listen to this, honestly.

[Mac Miller]

I'll make sure she listens.

[Colin]

Hi, Bonnie.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah, tell me.

[Bo]

Tell me about young Morgan. I mean, tell me a little more about, like, figuring out that he could play guitar at.

[Mac Miller]

He just said cocky from day two. Like, he. I think he's. He's still, like. He's still. He's, like, 28, and he still likes to tell people. He started reading at, like, 4 or something.

[Bo]

Now he's, like, an executive for a really cool company.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah. He. Which he became. He worked. Okay. So his whole story is crazy, but. Yeah, Morgan was, like, reading almanacs at, like, 5 and memorizing stuff. He's, like, skipped kindergarten and just. Yeah. I don't know. It ran for student body. It was just, like, ahead of everything. Sure. And then our band. There's obviously some in between and stuff, but once we figure out what we're doing, we start touring when we're pretty young. We started touring for real when I graduated, but Morgan was still in high school, so he did independent study the last couple years.

[Colin]

Oh, wow.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah. And, like, our parents were super supportive of it, even though, you know, it. Like, they always wanted us to all go to college. And they're like, you know, if you're not going to really. If you're not going to apply yourself, you better do something and do it all the way. So they're like, yeah, let's put you all in this van that breaks down and overheats.

[Bo]

And how far into this does media scare Come along quite a ways.

[Mac Miller]

Okay, so we. There's a bunch of in between. But the Sheds become a ska band at some point, which is funny because, like, we really. I do love ska and we. We all did, but that was such a weird choice.

[Bo]

And you really stayed. Scoff.

[Mac Miller]

It's funny because we. Yeah. And we, like, weren't like. We were always more into just punk, but, like, ska became a thing that Morgan was good at writing and playing.

[Bo]

And he's really good at playing Scott.

[Mac Miller]

But it just kind of happened.

[Colin]

Were there horns or was it like op. Ivy?

[Mac Miller]

While we were in high school, there were a lot, because it's easy to get kids out of the jazz band and stuff. And then the second, you know, we get past that and we start touring and. And they're either. If they're good enough to play in our band, they're also good enough to play in a college band.

[Colin]

Yeah, they're not.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah, yeah. They're not like, I'm gonna sleep on the floor and get paid with Little Caesars.

[Colin]

I played trombone in the Sheds.

[Bo]

We imagine.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah. So we just were constantly flipping through horn players. So we ended up, oddly enough, on no Sleep records for a second. We didn't end up putting out a release with them, but we had a song on a comp. And we were on no Sleep for a year, year and a half, and we had recorded like our first EP for them. And we never had management or anything, but we were doing a lot of DIY touring. I was booking everything. Hilarious. Routings.

[Bo]

August 8th, Tucson. August 9th, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.

[Mac Miller]

We hit Fargo twice on a tour.

[Bo]

Oh, the 60 day tour.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah. Yeah. Haywire kind of stole our Haywire.

[Bo]

You got to hit Fargo again.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah.

[Bo]

And then. And then you'll be on the Shed's level.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah. And make less money.

[Bo]

Like none.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah.

[Bo]

Can you tell me about trying to feed the whole band with $5?

[Mac Miller]

Oh, I successfully fed the whole. Bam.

[Colin]

$5 total.

[Mac Miller]

Famously. We were at the Lodi, California Walmart. I don't know why I remember that. And I went in. We were so, so broke. And I went into Walmart, came back out with like a bag of hot dog buns, a thing of hot dogs, a can of Hormel chili, and a thing of ketchup for five bucks. And we didn't have any way to heat them up. But it's. It's. It's baloney. Pretty much. Yeah. I maintain it was pretty good. I think. I think Nikki agreed. And he's a full on chef.

[Bo]

Yeah, he does that.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah.

[Bo]

He makes good stuff.

[Mac Miller]

He. Yeah, he's. I mean he's. He'll eat any fast food too.

[Colin]

Could you do anything for $5 today? The hot and ready's gone.

[Mac Miller]

You can just.

[Bo]

Six bucks.

[Mac Miller]

I still think you can go into Walmart and see like the 98 cents on the shelf for like. Yeah, they're for the old gray hot dogs.

[Colin]

Yeah.

[Mac Miller]

Okay.

[Bo]

You don't want those.

[Colin]

So you could.

[Bo]

Let's go back to in time a little more. Can you tell me about Clean House with Nash?

[Mac Miller]

Only because you can't find this online.

[Bo]

You can't.

[Mac Miller]

I think you. For a second. It was on the. What is it called?

[Bo]

I'll Find a Way.

[Mac Miller]

It. It was on the HGTV streaming service. Like.

[Bo]

But it might be on discovery now.

[Mac Miller]

When we first started the Sheds, well before we were ska band or anything, we were like learning our. We're learning how to play our instruments, learning cover songs. I think Evan wrote into hgtv.

[Bo]

That's how you got that.

[Mac Miller]

Literally. Evan. Evan, who was 13, probably. No, he was probably 11. Wrote into HGTV like online on the submission form.

[Colin]

Oh, okay.

[Mac Miller]

And was like, I'm in a garage band and we don't have a garage to play in. I think was the thing like. And there. Cuz my family like watched that show a lot. Clean House it was called With Nie Nash. With Nie Nash and ten Seasons.

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Mac Miller]

Damn. Yeah, we. So anyways, yeah, we wrote into them. Part of the. The story was like our dad is a pack rat. So there's. It's clutter everywhere. We have a band, supportive parents, but nowhere to play kind of. So they. Yeah, they did an episode with us. They came in, they turned our garage into a practice space that was not soundproof at all. And like musician's friend donated a ton of gear. It was all gear that was incredibly incompatible with what we were doing. Morgan got a like a goth flying voice. It was still cool. Like he immediately traded it for a Stratocaster.

[Colin]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Mac Miller]

I got the biggest drum kit. Like it was like a 26 foot foot 26 inch kick.

[Bo]

Nice.

[Mac Miller]

Just. Yeah. Ridiculous scratch kit. But it was.

[Bo]

They really just gave you that though. It's real.

[Mac Miller]

And we all. Before that we had like right off the I. The Ion beginner kit that was 150 bucks at TJ Maxx, like combo amp.

[Bo]

And Sabian B8 pack.

[Mac Miller]

I got a silver tone kit from Costco. Yeah. So yeah, Sabian B. Sabian bh.

[Colin]

It's crazy to think that I. I forget that you're like, a drummer.

[Mac Miller]

I mean, I was initially.

[Colin]

Yeah.

[Bo]

You played drums and sang in the.

[Mac Miller]

Sheds initially, so we were, like, learning cover songs and stuff. We all sang a little bit. I mostly sang because my voice had cracked by then and no one else's head.

[Bo]

Nice.

[Mac Miller]

And, yeah, for the first. Until we started touring, really, like, we played shows here and there. I was drumming and singing. Funny story. That also ties into how I became a touring professional at some point. At the Cobalt Cafe, I met Jordan Burns, the drummer of Strung Out. He was at a show. Look at that. Wow.

[Bo]

Pretty good. My notes say, the Cobalt Cafe, Strung Out.

[Colin]

Well, the crazy thing is, is your best friend is his wife. The dirt that can be got is.

[Bo]

Yeah, it's pretty, but.

[Mac Miller]

So we meet Jordan from Strung Out. Strung out happened to be playing a show in Agora Hills, which is the suburb we're from. Right. And he was like. I'm sure he didn't even think we were good. He was just like, I bet these kids can sell some tickets to the high school. Like, you know. So we kind of befriended Jordan, and he just took a liking to us in general. Like, he never managed us, but he was. I called him, like, our guidance counselor, kind of. He was always looking out for us. And at some point, he was like, you should just sing. You have any friends that play drums? And Nikki, who is my best friend.

[Bo]

The goat.

[Mac Miller]

Nikki's been my best friend since the tiredest man alive.

[Bo]

He's asleep behind the kit, but he is still raging.

[Mac Miller]

He. Yeah. So Nikki ended up playing with us. And, yeah, we start touring pretty hard.

[Bo]

What's the first tour?

[Mac Miller]

Well, so we did a few, like, weekends to the Northwest because that was like, oh, hey, we have spring break. Some of us are still in school. Yeah, that was always easy. I'd say that was the first one. First us was just us, like, real tour.

[Bo]

What's the first real tour where you guys are like, holy shit, we're for real on tour.

[Colin]

Like, we're not the next.

[Mac Miller]

We did a lot of just DIY US touring.

[Bo]

Wow.

[Mac Miller]

Where it was, like, sick. There's 12 people in this basement. Why are we here? This is amazing.

[Bo]

Yeah, we really, like, these 12 people, really fucking want to be here.

[Mac Miller]

I'm. No, they're in other bands usually. Well, it's funny. Back to, like, Warp tour. Changing my, like, mindset. Yeah. And around the same time, like, getting video zines from, like, skate shops and watching Fuse TV and all these things. I remember watching, like, this mini documentary of bouncing souls and they Were like, if you're gonna do this, you have like, if you want to be a band, you just have to work your ass off. Which is funny because, like, we started working our ass off the tail end of that mattering and MySpace becoming a thing where so years later, really jumping around. But we did a Warp tour. And I remember meeting this band. We met this band, Crown the Empire, who I think is like, still.

[Bo]

Yeah, they're out there.

[Colin]

Yeah, they were on our stage on Warped Tour.

[Mac Miller]

So they were on our stage on Warped Tour and it was. They had put out, I think, like a few songs right before that. I remember one day we get on stage at like 3pm or whatever and we're like, oh, my God, why in Louisville or wherever the fuck we are, there's hundreds of people here for us. This is ridiculous. What's going on? And then we realized they're all just staring at their phones and they're waiting for Crown the Empire to play. Who had just blown. Anyways, we. I remember we met those guys in a parking. Like the parking lot one night and they were really nice and like, well meaning. But they're like, you guys got to stop playing. Stop touring so much. Just work on your Internet presence. And I'm like, oh, that bouncing souls, man. But they were probably right.

[Bo]

I mean, like, yeah, it was the.

[Mac Miller]

Tail end of like. Yeah, too much, do less.

[Bo]

Like, well, the cycle's back, dude.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah, no, totally.

[Colin]

But what was a. What was a viral thing prior to the Internet? You know what I mean? Like, Jim Morrison getting arrested for profanity and obscenity. That's like a viral thing. Way before the Internet, we were trying to get arrested. It is interesting to think, like. Like, what could you have done?

[Mac Miller]

Yeah.

[Colin]

You know?

[Mac Miller]

Yeah. I mean, we were just like, kill the guy.

[Colin]

Yeah.

[Bo]

You know that Sca band with all the kids. Kill the guy.

[Colin]

Kill the guy.

[Bo]

I'd be like, I'm there.

[Mac Miller]

I'm on my.

[Bo]

I'm on my way.

[Mac Miller]

It's. Yeah, we just like, you know, if you build it, they will come. If you just book a lot of dates, seven people come.

[Bo]

Yeah, that's true.

[Mac Miller]

And you'll make 30.

[Bo]

But we're back now. It's cool to care, it's cool to work hard, which is really cool to see. And. And it's great timing for us.

[Colin]

When you did Warp tour, were you in a van?

[Mac Miller]

Yeah, we. We did two. We never did the whole thing, but we were on a third the first time, man. I mean, do you have in your notes how we got on Warp Tour, Cuz that's.

[Bo]

No, no, I would love to hear, man.

[Mac Miller]

Well, we did a third and we did like half at some point, but 20, 11 and 13.

[Colin]

But is that's kind of. Is that the heyday or is that kind of.

[Bo]

No, that's still absolutely raging.

[Mac Miller]

Raging before the big taper off where like everyone starts getting canceled and stuff.

[Colin]

Yeah, sure.

[Mac Miller]

And like there's just people criticizing everything. It was still good for sure.

[Colin]

Okay.

[Mac Miller]

But 2009, so, you know, we live in LA again. We have supportive parents, we're really young, so really, like just start going to. Every year there's a Warped Tour kickoff party in la. It used to be at the Key Club and we would like pop in. We would always run into Kevin Lyman and just, here's our demo, you know, whatever. And at some point he was like, if you guys are still a band, next year, guys can play on Warp Tour. He put us on one day and we played in la. There's incredibly embarrassing video.

[Bo]

Wait, is this when you had the full horns and everything? Yeah, dude, this video. You guys rock pretty good, dude. I.

[Mac Miller]

Straight up, but straight up scab.

[Bo]

Here's the video. Wow. Dude, they rock.

[Mac Miller]

I.

[Bo]

If I was Kevin Lyman, I would have seen this and been like, I. I'm. I'm putting this out maybe.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah, it was. I mean, it was awesome and it was a really cool experience. We're really young and I'm wearing a Mongoloid stank top.

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Mac Miller]

Oh, yeah.

[Colin]

Damn.

[Mac Miller]

I mean, like, we loved hardcore though. We were playing Scott, but you know, we love again, it's all punk rock. I think it was the next year. So we did the one date, it was awesome. And the next year he was like, if it goes well, I'll put you on some dates. And we're getting into the year or the next year. The first lineup drop is announced, we haven't heard anything. And Morgan just emails Kevin Lyman. Just go. He's learned from Jordan.

[Bo]

Hey, it's me, Morgan.

[Mac Miller]

Jordan from Strung out had kind of always taught us to just like brutalize people.

[Colin]

Guitar extraordinaire. From the shreds or Shreds from the shit?

[Bo]

The shreds.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah. So Morgan emails Kevin and he's just like, hey, I noticed I haven't heard from you. So if you don't respond, we're just gonna show up to the first day and assume we're on the tour. And Kevin writes back in three minutes just like, hey, I'm about to go into a seminar at this college in all my years of doing this, I've never heard this bad of an attack. I'm about to read this in front of all these students about what not to do, don't show up, whatever. And like, that rules immediately. And it also cc'd on it are 20 execs who work on world tour or whatever. Oh, and Morgan.

[Bo]

How old is Morgan though?

[Mac Miller]

11.

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Colin]

Yeah.

[Mac Miller]

Which is insane.

[Bo]

Awesome.

[Mac Miller]

So Morgan calls me like on the verge of tears. It's like, I've ruined, I've ruined the band. We gotta move to Europe. Yeah. Morgan's like the, the seven year old that packs his bag and goes, yeah, I'm leaving. And then within minutes we're getting like a ton of emails back from like Julie, who still works with Kevin, who's incredible. All these people who are just like, you come on a bad day, don't like, I'll talk, don't worry about it.

[Bo]

He should have just responded, I'm 11.

[Colin]

Yeah. Yes.

[Bo]

I think he's going to say, dear Kevin, I'm. I'm 11.

[Colin]

The email signature. I'm 11, by the way, Morgan. Morgan.

[Mac Miller]

Anyways, Kevin, Kevin hits his back. He's like, hey, guys, like, I'm sorry I went really hard there. Come in for a meeting this week, we'll talk.

[Bo]

Okay.

[Mac Miller]

And we went to the office and it was like going to the principal's office kind of. He's like, you know, that was, you know, that was up. Right. Kind of. And then it was just like, all right, how does this week sound? Or these two weeks in, and we're like. And puts us on that ear. So like, literally we got it by punishing his balls off.

[Bo]

Punishment works.

[Mac Miller]

Yes. I mean, that's what biohazard said.

[Bo]

That's good.

[Colin]

Good on him. Truly. Yeah, that's a great. That's a great move.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah. No, Truly, like as much heat as Kevin gets constantly. Truly. I think that's a, a good dude. And he's like done a lot for me and a lot of people and it's really hard to be perfect when you have so much going on. But I do think he's done a lot more good than bad and I will stand by that for sure.

[Colin]

The anxiety.

[Bo]

So to the 11 year olds out there.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah.

[Bo]

Email Kevin Lyman.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah. Punishment's back. Start a scabbing.

[Colin]

Come on.

[Bo]

Can you tell me, do, do. Well, let me, let me ask you something back. What do you think has aged worse?

[Mac Miller]

Oh, no.

[Bo]

Your champion tattoo or your R. Kelly tattoo?

[Mac Miller]

I'm trying to think because I think there's a hat trick of another canceled thing I have tattooed on me.

[Bo]

Okay.

[Mac Miller]

But I think. I think without question. Yeah.

[Bo]

Because it's like. Yeah, you kept the promise, you know?

[Mac Miller]

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

[Bo]

So tell me about Warp Tour. How was doing that in a band was that brutal?

[Mac Miller]

Yeah, it's. I don't regret it whatsoever. Nor should you. It's like all of. I feel like you probably feel the same way. Both of you. All the worst memories of DIY touring is the stuff later that is the fondest.

[Bo]

Dude. It's like Kale when Kale is pissing me off. I was like this fucking. God damn it, Kale. And now nothing makes me happier than thinking about Kale.

[Mac Miller]

I remember, yeah. Like chasing my brother Evan three blocks because he threw a firecracker at me and I was gonna beat his ass. And. And being net, like, fuming.

[Bo]

Yeah. And you couldn't.

[Mac Miller]

And I was like, this is the best. That was the best. So remember when I punched him in the face?

[Colin]

So who's driving if Morgan's 11?

[Mac Miller]

Morgan never drove. I drove.

[Colin]

I should hope.

[Mac Miller]

I think he never drove because he didn't have his license until we were. Had just broken up or about to.

[Bo]

Right.

[Mac Miller]

He drove maybe a little at the tail end, but it was the rest of us. Like all. Everybody. We all drove. I drove a lot. Yeah. Morgan, we. We'd make Morgan sit up with everybody a lot, but then he would annoy us so we'd go to bed.

[Colin]

Were they doing the same thing at the time where you have to like load in is 8, 9am you unload the. The truck, get your merch. Yeah.

[Mac Miller]

Oh, sorry for Warp Tour. I did so much of that driving. Yeah, we all did. But I. That's the up thing is I remember. I don't remember most of those drives because you're just so. The idea of doing these like eight hour drives every night and not remembering a second of them because I'm catatonic is dangerous.

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Mac Miller]

But yeah, you know, we basically, you are at Warp Tour, dying in the sun. Maybe you nap. Like we would. I would nap on a duffel bag of merch under the merch table.

[Bo]

Nice.

[Mac Miller]

Or in the van with all the window doors open. Hopefully not cooking. And you're there all day till if you have a long drive, you pack up early and leave at like 7, get some food and drive till, you know, 6am sit in the parking lot behind the wheel, asleep for two hours.

[Colin]

Oh my God.

[Mac Miller]

And then, then you load in when someone like points out where you should park.

[Bo]

Oh, Cool.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah. And then you. And then you lug a wagon with merch and a tent. You have to bring everything. A table, the tent.

[Colin]

And you're lugging it so far because the buses park near the stages. Yeah, the vans and are.

[Bo]

Do most bands playing have, like, enormous crews?

[Colin]

Yes. Well, on. On our stage was the monster stage and it was like the medium tier and the.

[Mac Miller]

You guys could keep gear on a semi, right?

[Colin]

Yeah, we had gear on a semi. And like, half of the bands had pretty big crew. Motionless and White and Ice 9 kills. It was that. That level. They all had, like, pretty serious.

[Bo]

The money bands.

[Colin]

Money. Yeah, they had pretty serious crew. Necro Gobblecon. No crew, dude.

[Bo]

No crew.

[Mac Miller]

Both years ago we were on. We did the Kevin says stage and the Ernie Ball stage and they were both largely backlined.

[Colin]

Yeah.

[Mac Miller]

So we would, you know, luckily we were only lugging, like, Symbols and, you know, Breakable. It's like any fist. Yeah.

[Colin]

Okay. That's not that bad. But I'll never. I've talked about this before. I'll never forget loading the tr. Unloading the trailer in the morning and like, just getting on stage and kind of looking where it was and seeing Matt from Kubla Khan pulling their wagon a mile and a half to the merch spot, because that's what they had to do. They did the whole thing that way.

[Mac Miller]

They've been grinding for.

[Colin]

Forever.

[Mac Miller]

Crazy. They were the local band on, like, one of my first tours I did with friends, like, in Texas for three days and. And 15 years later, they're crushing it. Yeah, crushing.

[Bo]

Absolutely. Are there any lifelong friendships you made on those on the two Warp tours you did?

[Mac Miller]

Yeah, so funny enough, like, one. I. I remember. I always bring this up, but mutual friend Vincent from the Acacia Strain, they were on the first year we were on and we. I was singing now, but we sold horns. We were a ska band mixed with punk and a little hardcore and stuff. But I remember the first day us playing and like, a bunch of my friends, that was their favorite band. Familiar. I. I didn't listen to them a whole lot, but, like, I knew who he was. He was a. A straight edge figure.

[Colin]

Yeah.

[Mac Miller]

I was aware of. I see him side stage while we play, and afterwards I walk over and like, hey, I'm Mac. Like, nice to meet. What. What. What's up? And he just goes, man, I love Real Big Fish. And we've been friends ever since.

[Bo]

Beautiful. Do you have any lifelong enemies you made on the two world?

[Mac Miller]

Shit. Is there an answer you know about or.

[Bo]

No? Okay.

[Mac Miller]

I Was like, am I forgetting? No, not really.

[Bo]

It's good.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah, it's really like. It's kind of like it really. I know it's cliche, but it really is summer camp. Like. Yeah, everyone never got to do it. Everyone meets up in catering and you meet. Go to catering with your friends and like every. We met some. I think you were just talking about on some other episode recently. But. But like I remember you're all driving at the same time. So we'd end up at like a gas station in the middle of night and be like oh, of Mice and Men. Not my thing. But you guys are friendly.

[Colin]

Yeah, totally.

[Mac Miller]

What's up? A skylet drive?

[Colin]

Yeah.

[Mac Miller]

Oh.

[Bo]

Is everybody pretty cool?

[Mac Miller]

Everyone's no one like cool guy. Especially because we're in a van. So everyone's like yeah, yeah.

[Colin]

True.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah.

[Colin]

Did you ever get politics into a bad time slot? We got one time.

[Mac Miller]

No, we, we. I mean we definitely had bad time slots occasionally. But the two stages that we ever played on were always like three or four touring bands. It's mostly like they would put locals on. So usually they'd put us kind of in the afternoon. We'd get like a decent time. So.

[Colin]

So you play a different time every day and it was like an allegedly random. It's allegedly random. Although the big bands tend to play around the best time like 5pm is 3 to 5.

[Bo]

As they should of course.

[Colin]

But sometimes you open the stage and it's actually pretty dope. And sometimes you would close. Census Fail closed our stage like nine times, which is a lot.

[Mac Miller]

It's way closing at noon.

[Colin]

Yeah, closing sucks.

[Bo]

But really because everybody's shot, everyone's trying to leave.

[Colin]

We got a really good time slot for one of them Detroit or something. And then we got swapped to. To closing. Come to find a band that was originally closing, volunteered to do the catering. And a little favor you can get is you get to make you say hey, we would really love to play at like 3:30 if possible.

[Bo]

What do you mean do the cater.

[Mac Miller]

To be serving and stuff.

[Bo]

Bands do that.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah. So they.

[Colin]

It's like an unspoken like rule kind of thing.

[Mac Miller]

And this is a thing that like started with early warp tours was if you look at like old flyers it would even be included on the flyer like barbecue band. So there'd be bands that like if their van and most bands are in vans, these earlier ones if they're like towing the. The barbecue for the. Well I guess this is not for catering. This is for the after barbecue.

[Colin]

Okay.

[Mac Miller]

But there'd Be bands. Because on days where the drive is not long or you have a day off, you have these incredible barbecues that everybody hangs out at. And you could be the barbecue band where basically to. It's. I mean, I think you still get paid, but if as you're pay to play type thing to get a slot on the tour, you're towing the grill and then you're grilling for everyone at the end. Yeah, but. And it's kind of sick, honestly. And then you. That band always, inevitably became friends with everybody.

[Colin]

Yeah.

[Mac Miller]

Everyone wants that extra hot dog.

[Colin]

This was not that. And this was a band on the tour, on our stage who kind of weaseled their way out of closing because.

[Bo]

They were multiple times or just one.

[Colin]

Just this one time. But they were from near where we had this really good slot. And someone from my band posted our updated time slot and said thanks a lot and tagged that band.

[Bo]

That's awesome.

[Mac Miller]

I do remember Warren Beef. I ran into. Oh, what band was it on the. We were driving to Texas from LA to start the tour.

[Bo]

Okay.

[Mac Miller]

And we're really excited. Oh, it was. And I, I tweeted it was honestly like we're kids and teenagers. Swear I'm not like homophobic or transphobic or anything. But I was just like, can't wait to like excited to get to Warp tour and meet all the girls in black veil brides. And I just get a call from Kevin Lyman. I don't. He's not following us. I don't know how he got it. And he just goes, hey, Mac, don't do that. Like you're. We're all equals. He honestly was like, don't talk on other bands.

[Bo]

He got you.

[Colin]

Damn.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah. And it like I was like scared, like, okay. He's like, don't do that or you're going to just turn around and drive home.

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Colin]

Damn. Nice.

[Bo]

Smart. That's good. He did the right thing.

[Mac Miller]

He like.

[Bo]

How old were you?

[Mac Miller]

20. 19.

[Bo]

Okay. Yeah.

[Mac Miller]

Maybe young. Probably 18. Honestly.

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Colin]

You got teen at the end of it. You're allowed to be a little shit.

[Bo]

You're, you're, you're, you know, you're still learning.

[Mac Miller]

I thought I was. I was like, we're. We're a cool scabbing the goth.

[Colin]

Yeah.

[Mac Miller]

Crybaby. You know, whatever, dude.

[Bo]

The drummer. The OG drummer of Blackfield Rides. Sandra Alvarenga. Gangster.

[Colin]

Yeah.

[Bo]

Valley OG legend. She used to play in a band called Arm the Homeless. She rocked. Kicked ass. I think she's still playing drums. She pulled more straight women than any Man, I know. She has the. The. She had the craziest game I've ever seen. Absolute legend. So Blackville Brides. There's at least one cool thing about them. They had Sandra there.

[Mac Miller]

It's funny, I never thought about this connection till now either. But their longtime tour manager, John Severson was the drummer of Daughters, See, and he tour managed. A few years later we did a support tour with the Casualties and he was their tour manager. Took incredible care of us because like their van would break down, but he still had to get to the show to run the whole thing. So he'd be like, all right with you guys. I'm buying your hotel room if you give me a ride.

[Colin]

Oh, like beautiful.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah. We were crashing on floors all the time and he would just, hey, we have an extra hotel. It's yours. Yeah, constantly.

[Bo]

So when in this time. So Media Scare. I want to talk about that because I think. I think that's like a thing we've not touched upon on the show ever.

[Colin]

Yeah.

[Bo]

Of like what a. What a dark time for music Media Scare was. Tell me about your experience there.

[Mac Miller]

So we maybe.

[Colin]

Maybe explain it just in general for those who don't know.

[Mac Miller]

I'll.

[Colin]

I forgot all about it.

[Mac Miller]

Okay. So we were on no sleep for a second. We got our. I. We had no booking agent. We got on the Warp Tour, cuz Morgan had punished Kevin. And so we finished this EP and we're like, we're on. We're on Warp Tour. We need to get a substantial. A real release out.

[Bo]

Sure.

[Mac Miller]

And they're just kind of like, well, we. We don't have time in our release. It's not gonna happen.

[Bo]

Right.

[Mac Miller]

But if you guys want, go do it yourself. So we left. Left the label, made CDs ourselves, did the Warp tour ourselves. Cut to, you know, we're. We're getting ready to write for another ep. And in the Valley, I mean it's. It was not just a Valley thing, but the label Media Scare was based in the Valley. Good friends of the band. Who you guys? The Cobalt Legends, Betrayal.

[Bo]

Oh yeah.

[Mac Miller]

They were like Media Scares babies. There was ton of bands from the Valley, a lot in the, you know, Metal Core, Death Core, Gent field.

[Bo]

You do not want to play after Betrayal in the Valley in 2009.

[Colin]

Ah, I see.

[Mac Miller]

And. And somehow you're right. Just from being at the Cobalt Baron, who ran the label, approached us and was like, hey, I'll put out your stuff. And we just wanted to be wanted by a label. 100. So we were like yeah. And it was. Seemed cool. It wasn't. But, you know, at like. Yeah, we were on Media Scare for a second. We put out an EP and an lp. The LP I'm still proud of. Yeah, we. But, you know, it just took forever. I think we got CDs. Luckily, like, the day before we left for our next Warp tour. We never did vinyl, which was part of the deal. There's just a whole.

[Bo]

It was just a bad guy.

[Mac Miller]

Yes. Bad guy. Bad situation for us. Not the right place for us to be.

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Mac Miller]

Real weird in general.

[Bo]

The cool part is you got killed by murder, Death kill. In that.

[Mac Miller]

I did here. I think they literally scrubbed all of their videos. Not murder, death, Kill, but to scare.

[Bo]

But that one's still up, right?

[Mac Miller]

If. If you find it. Here's. Here's my bloody ass face. And they.

[Bo]

You up.

[Mac Miller]

They really did.

[Bo]

That's awesome. That's one perk.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah, that's still. That's my main IMDb credit is bloodied Corpse.

[Bo]

So bad time on Media Scare.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah, not a good time.

[Bo]

That's a whole. There's a whole Netflix documentary waiting to.

[Mac Miller]

Happen with that, I'm sure. What? Media Scared?

[Bo]

Media Scared, yeah. Coming soon.

[Mac Miller]

But we. Yeah, we basically. We tore our ass. We worked really hard. Like, we were touring diy. I think there was a couple years there where we literally did like 160 shows or something, all DIY and we just got burnt out and we were getting older or not old and.

[Bo]

When do you go bald in this timeline?

[Mac Miller]

I shaved my head for the first time on the Casualties tour.

[Bo]

Okay.

[Mac Miller]

I was like, not balding yet. Writing's on the wall.

[Bo]

It's coming.

[Mac Miller]

Not a lick of hair in any elder male in my family. Summer tour. Shaved it and was like, let's see how it is. It's hot. I can play it off. And I was like, no, that's me.

[Bo]

Now, could you give me your top four bald guys?

[Mac Miller]

Larry David.

[Colin]

Sure.

[Mac Miller]

Bob Odenkirk.

[Bo]

Yeah, he's getting there.

[Mac Miller]

I don't know. Yeah. Balding. Yeah, man.

[Colin]

There's a champ that you. You gotta mention.

[Mac Miller]

Stone Cold.

[Colin]

He is a champ.

[Mac Miller]

He's my champ in many ways.

[Colin]

In many ways. Yeah. But there's. There's another one who I just feel like he is.

[Mac Miller]

I don't know. Just like. It's always costumes. It's always like, oh, you're gonna be Walter White this year.

[Colin]

Yeah, dude.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah.

[Bo]

I think you said him and you said Patrick Stewart in the.

[Mac Miller]

Oh, Patrick Stewart.

[Colin]

Love, Sir Patrick. No problem there. Bruce Willis, dude.

[Mac Miller]

Oh, yeah, he's powerful with it. He.

[Bo]

He really rocks.

[Mac Miller]

He doesn't have to shave it. He just, like, lets it rock as it lies.

[Bo]

The Die Hard Balding cut is like the coolest a guy.

[Colin]

Dude.

[Bo]

Pulp Fiction. Balding cut. Insane.

[Colin]

Pulp Fiction. He looks great. I think the third Die Hard when he still got hair, but it's like, oh, yeah, dude.

[Bo]

You know who's hanging on in the coolest way is Jude Law.

[Mac Miller]

Whoa. I've never clocked that.

[Bo]

Dude. Clock the out of it. It's awesome.

[Mac Miller]

He's got great balding here. Who, Stavros?

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Mac Miller]

It's like the worst comb over thing ever.

[Bo]

But it would be worse if he was fully bald.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah, it's just killing it.

[Colin]

Mac, have you made yourself like an evangelical for the bald? Like, do you ever see a brother struggling out there and you say, hey, man, it's time?

[Mac Miller]

I think I have. Honestly, it's hard to approach someone unless you're close with, like.

[Bo]

Yeah, I don't know. It's a sensitive subject for every man.

[Colin]

I would be destroyed if I got that.

[Mac Miller]

No one talks about me being bald as much as Colin.

[Colin]

Sure.

[Mac Miller]

And I think you think that that was just a thing that was all always happening. And it wasn't like you started me being bald. The bald guy.

[Bo]

Yeah. But I love it about you.

[Mac Miller]

No, I'm not saying you don't.

[Bo]

It wasn't. It was never derogatory.

[Mac Miller]

No, I know. That's why I don't have a problem with it. Because I'm. I am.

[Bo]

Sometimes I would see my reflection in your head when you bent over, and I could not. There's nothing else I can say, but.

[Mac Miller]

I shaved it fresh for the day. I was like, I have to put a hat on or you're gonna be seeing bow in this.

[Bo]

Yeah, that's possible.

[Colin]

What's. I'm telling you. What's the method?

[Mac Miller]

It depends. I. If I have time, I'll bick it. Just whatever. Soap and Bic. Like literally just a razor. I now have like a. The handheld thing. Does it work? Yeah, it's easy to use on tour. Cool.

[Colin]

That's good.

[Mac Miller]

It works. Not as close, but it's. Takes three minutes.

[Bo]

What advice. Piece of advice can you give to the gentleman listening or watching who. Whose time may be coming?

[Colin]

This is huge.

[Mac Miller]

Just give it a shot. You know, maybe your head. Maybe you got a. I have a dent in the side of my head and it doesn't stop me.

[Bo]

You do. But you have a good shape. Shape is important.

[Colin]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mac Miller]

Give it a Shot. So there's always hats.

[Bo]

Yeah. Small hats. Really good for.

[Mac Miller]

No need to hit turkey yet.

[Bo]

No, no.

[Colin]

Do you think. Does it. I don't know, does it ever happen where a guy will, like, start to thin, but it's because of stress or it's hormonal or something and it can, like, come back?

[Mac Miller]

I genuinely have no idea. I mean, I just. I wasn't losing my hair and I was shaving my head at like 21.

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Mac Miller]

So I. Whoa. Yeah. No, I was like, I've been doing this for 12 years and I just. So now I'm almost like. I wish it would stop growing in. In the weird places. No, that.

[Bo]

But that's the thing is that with the. Well, you gotta let it grow. Give me six months. What'll it cost me?

[Mac Miller]

I think it'll cost you some record sales. When people see.

[Bo]

Mac Hogan. Dude.

[Colin]

Yeah.

[Bo]

The people lost the Hulkster. He's a piece of. They need a good. A good bald brother to let it grow and. And give people something.

[Colin]

You got the stash. Strong.

[Mac Miller]

Real nice curly sideburns going on.

[Bo]

Finally. Can you please.

[Colin]

Can you grow a beard, Mac?

[Mac Miller]

Yeah. Yeah. I. I mean, it doesn't grow downwards. It's not just full. I. Basically, what I've been doing. I don't know why this is interesting. Brittany.

[Bo]

Brittany really prefers it when he's got the beard.

[Mac Miller]

But basically, I'll just let it grow until it's itchy and then I just shave it again. And then I go, three more weeks and let it grow.

[Bo]

And the. Is the mustache a tribute to your beloved late father?

[Mac Miller]

It wasn't intentionally. Yeah, I just like. I mean, I like every 24 year old was like, I should get a mustache. And then it was never really full. And then during the pandemic, I tried. I was like, oh, it's pretty full.

[Colin]

Pretty cool. That's a good.

[Bo]

That's a good mustache.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah. My dad had the most insane mustache. I remember my dad. We don't need to get it super into it, but had cancer. And when he lost all his hair, he shaved his mustache off. And it was the first time my mom in like 30 years ever saw his lip. It was like, you should put that back. It was just like the weight of 30 years of mustache had pulled his lip.

[Bo]

That's a different guy.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah.

[Bo]

100.

[Colin]

The reason this is interesting, Mac, is because there is. There are listeners out there who don't realize they can customize their reality.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah.

[Colin]

About how they look. There's options. Everybody's got options.

[Bo]

And we figure them out late. You know, sometimes you get a pair of white pants and shave your head late in your life and you realize that's you.

[Mac Miller]

You know, I can't wait for you to dump those white pants up. Never.

[Bo]

It's never gonna.

[Mac Miller]

I.

[Bo]

Trust me.

[Mac Miller]

Diaper time.

[Bo]

I've come close and it. But I. It may happen. Who knows? We'll see. Tell me about something. A prophecy you've already fulfilled. Many people don't know this cosmic joke is straight up Tony Hawk music. They've already been on a Tony Hawk soundtrack.

[Colin]

Sheds.

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Mac Miller]

Sheds are one of the last things we did, actually. I don't know if we're like a loud. I mean, I don't think it matters. But allowed to talk about this kind of stuff. But like partially one of the last catalysts that helped us like get off Media scare in. On top of breaking up.

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Mac Miller]

We on our own accord. Also because Morgan punished Tony Hawk's balls off.

[Bo]

Pretty cool.

[Mac Miller]

He's pretty. I don't know if learned this theme about Morgan.

[Bo]

The guy emails you God tier Punisher.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah.

[Bo]

Unbelievable Punisher.

[Mac Miller]

Thomas Jane over here.

[Colin]

But he.

[Mac Miller]

But anyways, we ended up on Morgan basically just started tweeting at Tony Hawk and was just like, you got to put us in the game, man. For. For Tony Hawk 5 was. It was announced that Activision was working on it just keeps tweeting at him, getting people to tweet at him. And he eventually DMs Morgan. Like Tony Hawk himself was like, hey, I see you. We're still working on it. I'll have someone email you, but just please stop. I see. I hear. I think he emailed him again like a few weeks later. It was like you said I was gonna hear him. I can send the army on you again. But anyways, we ended up getting a song on Tony Hawk and there's minimal licensing fees or whatever. Media scare was like, you know, I know you worked this out. You have to send it all here and I'll pay you half of it. Not the other way around. We're like, I'm sure you will. And then of course he didn't. And we're like, cool, breach contract. Let's. We're getting out.

[Bo]

Oh, cool.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah. We're like, I don't care about the $500 or whatever.

[Colin]

Yeah, right.

[Bo]

Tony Hawk. Tony Hawk made it happen.

[Colin]

Was Tony Hawk 5 before rated game.

[Mac Miller]

Of all time on IGN?

[Colin]

Was it before or after Underground? The first. It was after the first.

[Mac Miller]

After Undergrounds. After like Project 8 after the one where you stand on the thing after all these things, they were like, we're.

[Colin]

We're back.

[Mac Miller]

Back to basics. Tony Hawk 5 just called that. And then.

[Bo]

Is it really the lowest rated game on?

[Mac Miller]

I. I think it. Maybe it's changed since then, but when it was out, it was literally zero out of 10.

[Colin]

It can't be lower than, like, the Superman 64 game or something, you know, like, you of all time.

[Mac Miller]

It wasn't finished, though. Like, they rushed it through. I think they used a different engine. It wasn't like Neversoft. They put it out too quick. And like, there were all these. You know, you'd go up a quarter pipe, and then when you come back, then you just get stuck in the ramp.

[Bo]

Nice.

[Mac Miller]

Like it just.

[Bo]

To the. To the sheds.

[Mac Miller]

Yes, to the sheds. And like. New American Nightmare.

[Colin]

Yeah. Who else was on the soundtrack? Do you remember?

[Mac Miller]

There were a few. I remember a bunch of bands never heard of, but I think there was, like, you know, state champs, like, a few contemporaries, but it was a lot of. I don't know it. Like, so many no names that it made sense that we were.

[Colin]

Okay.

[Mac Miller]

Sure, sure. Yeah.

[Bo]

So goal achieved. But nobody bought the game to hear it. So, Tony, if you're listening, God, give Cosmic Joke a shot. There's no band out there doing Tony Hawk music like this. Okay. They got. We'll get some horns if you need them.

[Colin]

Also, if you have, like, two to three hours free, anytime, Tony, you just let.

[Bo]

Oh, yeah, hit us up. I mean, I got this chair.

[Colin]

It's an accolade, regardless. Like, I mean, it's awesome.

[Mac Miller]

Again, we broke up, like, right after that.

[Colin]

Yeah.

[Mac Miller]

But our whole thing was, like, two goals as the kind of bandwidth Play Warp tour. Do a Tony Hawk game, which we didn't even know was going to be on the table. Like, we didn't know there were going to be more games.

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Mac Miller]

So we're like, all right, that's. That's a. We did.

[Bo]

You did it.

[Mac Miller]

We did all this stuff.

[Bo]

You did it. I mean, you met so many people along the way that it, like, shaped the rest of your life. Because now. Well, before we get into merch, I want to. I want to ask you something. Can you picture this? Picture the color in your head, lime green.

[Mac Miller]

Wait, the color of my head picture?

[Bo]

No, no, no, inside your head. Picture the color lime green. And now picture these words. I'm in every city touching every titty.

[Mac Miller]

Here's a video.

[Bo]

Tell me about this Attila shirt and its significance to you.

[Mac Miller]

So what's the. What was The Joliet venue. Mojo.

[Colin]

It was Mojo's. Now it's the Forge.

[Mac Miller]

We. We had a day off of one of our DIY tours. And our old friend Rico, who we met on. He was doing merch for the Case Train on our first Warp tour. He was out with Chelsea Grin on a tour with a ton of bands that like. Respectfully, nothing I would have ended up going to. We're like, we'll go to a show. And he gave us a 3XL Attila shirt because they were on that tour that was lime green and then written in pot leaves. It said, I'm in every city, touching every titty. And for the rest of our tour, every night, we would roll dice. And whoever lost had to wear the shirt. But we also never washed it. Oh, yeah. So it just progressively became like, you really don't want to lose.

[Bo]

And how many. How often did you lose?

[Mac Miller]

I don't think I ever lost. Morgan, who was tiny.

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Mac Miller]

Had to wear it. And I remember our drummer who. So after Nikki, with this guy Mark playing rooms, he had to wear it most times. And he was like, you know, the sleeves go to here. So he's like rolling them up and they're falling down. He's trying to.

[Bo]

Oh, he's having to play it during the set.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah, yeah. So every. Which also, we're damning ourselves to having someone in the band wearing this shirt every show.

[Bo]

That's horrible.

[Mac Miller]

Every single show you lose.

[Colin]

You know that video of the, like, the Japanese, like, mascot playing drum sets? What I'm imagining?

[Bo]

Yeah, but that video. That guy rocks.

[Colin]

That guy rocks. Come on, dude.

[Bo]

He's blasts like it's nobody's business, dude.

[Colin]

The Forge, by the way, is about three blocks from a Harris casino that has the highest payout odds in the country.

[Bo]

Great casino.

[Colin]

Great.

[Mac Miller]

We got our trailer stuck in the parking garage.

[Colin]

Yeah.

[Mac Miller]

Because we tried to park at the Harrah's for that show, so.

[Bo]

Excellent.

[Colin]

Yeah, but good casino.

[Bo]

Great casino. Big fan.

[Mac Miller]

I'm only familiar with the parking garage. It's too small.

[Bo]

All right, so this is the first time we've had a career merch man on the show.

[Colin]

Yes.

[Bo]

I wanna. I wanna get your thoughts here. It's. It's such a fascinating industry. It's hard to break into. I want to know some career highlights and lowlights of Merch World.

[Mac Miller]

I mean, where you want me to begin? Really?

[Bo]

The coolest tour you've ever gotten to do?

[Mac Miller]

The coolest. Like, on a personal level.

[Bo]

Personal scale. And then I think.

[Mac Miller]

Last year I did the Whole Postal Service, Death Cab for Cutie anniversary tour that. I mean, I. I don't often work for. I do. I don't always work for artists that I am, like, a fan of. Yeah, I. You know, you can be the coolest guys, and sometimes. Sometimes work is just work. Usually I'm fortunate enough to go out with bands that are. At least I respect and not too many, like, horror stories. But I've been a fan of Death Cat for Cutie for a long time. Jenny Lewis for a long time. 818.

[Colin]

Come on.

[Mac Miller]

And so to get to do that tour and do the whole cycle, like, I did every U.S. or North American data, that tour, and awesome. Yeah, it was cool. Like, I had done some of those, you know, the big venues, like, some of those arenas before, but not doing, you know, an anniversary slash reunion tour where they're putting up crazy numbers. I want to shout out Jared Hazlett.

[Bo]

King.

[Mac Miller]

King, North Carolina. He's. He's been assisting me on these. He's the best.

[Colin]

He's amazing. He's like a. A character in a sitcom of my life who just, like, pops in and makes that episode that week because, like, I never know when I'm gonna see him, but when I do, I'm. I'm so pumped. Yeah, that's great.

[Mac Miller]

But. Yeah, so getting to do that and then sharing that with Jared was like, like, us to get. It was just. It would be like having you out every day. Like, yeah, we have all the workouts. Jared and I are gonna go get some coffee real quick.

[Bo]

Pretty cool.

[Mac Miller]

And. And then we get to work at Madison Square Garden, you know, it's crazy.

[Colin]

That tour was awesome, too. Like, it was. It's a very cool tour.

[Mac Miller]

Really cool. Yeah, I don't really have any, like, low. Low.

[Bo]

Like, damn, I can't wait for this tour to end.

[Colin]

Well, it's just hilarious because right before this, you're talking about getting rained out. I know. You've been, like, flooded before.

[Mac Miller]

It's so funny, though, because, like, the worst is what is. I mean, Jared and I talk about this all the time because Jared also has toured in vans most of his life.

[Colin]

Yeah.

[Mac Miller]

And we're always joking about, like, everybody else on our crew we're working. Like, some people are lighting techs who have only ever, you know, if you're having, like, not even just, like, the light operator, but people who are attacking the LED wall. They've only done massive tours where you're renting an LED wall, you know, so they're like, I didn't get the peanut butter pretzels today. Like, that's the worst. Meanwhile, I'm like, yeah, well I just changed the tire and the transmission gave out. And I'm trying to figure out how to, you know.

[Colin]

Yeah.

[Mac Miller]

So there's some sick part of us that like loves the turmoil because it's what is the best memory later. I know it's like these shared experiences is. It's what you learn from punk and hardcore and DIY touring. But I did remember, I'm not going to name names, but there was one. The one tour is like, get me the fuck off of this. Thank God, I'm not staying on it. I did a leg of a country tour with like a country legend. Like he's not doing arenas, he's doing like dinner theaters and casinos.

[Bo]

Pretty cool.

[Mac Miller]

But he's on the country touring style, where Weekend Warrior, you do shows Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday in one region. You fly home Monday through Wednesday. But you're just on tour. There's not a tour. You're just gone all year. Like instead of doing a two month tour or what? A month tour and you got a wrestling schedule. Yeah, yeah. It's just like in perpetuity. This is your schedule. And I did a couple weeks of it covering for someone and then they ended up basically someone like sub let me their job because they were taking a three month tour with Matchbox 20 and Counting Crows, which he bailed off that and I ended up getting moved to that which saved my life. And how sick is Rob Thomas he that he rocks? Rob Thomas. Shout out. Rob Thomas.

[Colin]

First celebrity I ever saw.

[Mac Miller]

He's incredible.

[Bo]

Dude rules apparently.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah, he's awesome. Man of the people.

[Colin]

I've told the story. When he was at lax, I don't know real quick, it was, it was my first time at lax. We were flying out of it and I just like looked and there he was like in the terminal on the phone. Dude, leather shirt, leather pants, leather boots, leather luggage. Just head to toe, black leather. He's on the phone and I'm gonna do it to the camera. He like looked at me and he went and then just kept walking. He literally gave me a yeah, it's me. And then just kept walking.

[Bo]

And I was like, yeah, he tell everybody.

[Colin]

Tell your podcast in 12 years, these.

[Mac Miller]

Tours have like 40 crew members or whatever on it. He emailed the whole crew, like got everyone's emails, emailed. The whole crew is like, hey, on the day off in Raleigh coming up, I my kids coming out to visit, we're gonna go do this, like, zipline ropes course thing open, invite whoever wants to come. And, like, four of us went, including me and you just hang out all day and zip line with Rob Thomas. And he's like, let's go. Let's go to Hibachi after and just buy us all dinner. Just. Sick guy. Just hang out, talk about music. Yeah.

[Bo]

What's he into?

[Mac Miller]

I mean, he's classic stuff. You.

[Colin]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mac Miller]

Classic pop, classic rock. Classic.

[Colin]

You got to check out the Stones, dude.

[Mac Miller]

Funny story, though. I talk about this all the time. I love. On these bigger tours, running into the Secret Punks. I'm sure you find this dude.

[Colin]

Secret Punks kind of move the whole industry.

[Mac Miller]

100.

[Colin]

Yeah, it's.

[Mac Miller]

It's kind of like this under underbelly. Or, like, I've. I've worked at Coachella before, and, like, you. You get to your green room. Let me come back to this in a second. But you get to your green room and, like, you know, you have, like, a couple things in there, and then you see, like, oh, Ephraim from Death by Stereo is the guy stocking the green rooms. Hey, I left a couple extra cases of beer for your guys. Yeah, like, all right. Sick.

[Bo]

Cool. We're all.

[Mac Miller]

They're all around, but I remember hardcore is the.

[Bo]

Is the Illuminati. Let's be real here. The fountain of youth.

[Mac Miller]

The Drummer of Matchbox 20. This tour is three months over three months long, by the way. Like, they do one tour every five years. Just knock out every corner of North America.

[Colin]

Yeah.

[Mac Miller]

And then just don't tour, like.

[Colin]

And that's a dream.

[Mac Miller]

Drummer of Matchbox 20. His name's Stacy. He was the singer of American hi Fi, if you remember that.

[Colin]

Yeah, yeah, I do remember that band.

[Mac Miller]

But I. I didn't know any of this at first. So I'm walking around backstage. I was wearing a. His Hero's Gone shirt one day, and he just goes, incredible shirt. And I was like, I need.

[Bo]

Are you sure?

[Mac Miller]

Well, I was. I didn't even realize he was the drummer. So I was like, oh, the catering guy.

[Colin]

Yeah, right, right.

[Mac Miller]

And then a few days later, we were like. I think there was, like, a little barbecue after the show or something, and I was wearing a Jesus lizard shirt, and the same guy comes up and starts talking to me, and it's just like my old band toward Jesus. I. You. I. We got to look this up. But he was just like, that is one of the best live bands I've ever toured with, all this stuff. And he. American High Fi did His horror. That was Bush headlining and they took out American hi Fi like when they were first starting to pop. Wow. I can't remember who the other support there was. Someone direct support. And then Jesus Lizard was opening just because Gavin Rossdale loved Jesus Lizard. And I think I. I heard that Jesus Lizard got sent home from the tour because David Yao kept just getting naked and stage diving in arenas. Oh. And just like, yeah, you can't do that. No, you can't do that sucks. Can't do anything these days.

[Bo]

Like Death Cab hanging out with Ian Makai.

[Mac Miller]

Oh, man, that's cool. Yeah. I always wanted. There's not anything to share with this really. But the first day the that Tour started in D.C. and they did a couple days of rehearsals at the venue anthem, beautiful venue in D.C. and I get there a day early just to load the merch semi and get it all organized and we just like hear Jared and I are breaking down pallets and we just hear like, like, hello, gentlemen. And I just turn and like peeking his head and is just Ian Mackay legend. And it's like the first time I.

[Bo]

My Ian.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah. I was like, it can't be him. Oh, we're in D.C. i guess it makes sense.

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Mac Miller]

And then like two hours later I'm like, I'm going to go to the catering room, get some coffee and I'm just like walk into an artist round table type setting of just Ben Gibber, Jenny Lewis and Ian just chatting about the process.

[Colin]

Ian's. Ian's a bald king.

[Bo]

He's been a brother, dude.

[Mac Miller]

That might be number one.

[Colin]

Day one. Yeah. Damn, that's a good one.

[Mac Miller]

And really makes like a. A fishing hat look good too.

[Bo]

Dude. Any hat.

[Colin]

How is it on there? We got to find out.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah.

[Bo]

Ian, if you're listening, I'm sorry again.

[Colin]

Remember in lost there was Mr. Echo. He. Mr. Echo also barely had a beanie on. It's the only rival to Ian.

[Mac Miller]

What's the guy from Oz? Yeah, yeah, the beanie that is just touching the side of.

[Colin]

Oh, maybe I'm confusing the two. It's the guy who plays Mr. Ekko. Yes.

[Mac Miller]

Oh, is it?

[Colin]

Yeah, I think it's the same guy.

[Bo]

He hated Loss. Yeah.

[Mac Miller]

AD is the guy in. In Oz. Yeah.

[Bo]

This episode is brought to you by mad vintage.

[Colin]

Hey, Colin, where'd you get that shirt?

[Bo]

Maddvintage.com.

[Colin]

Wow.

[Bo]

Yeah. That's all you got to do. You go to this website, you. You listen to a band that we talk about on our show. He's got you covered. You're gonna find the shirts you've been looking for your entire life. And this is. We're passionate about this.

[Colin]

It's one of our favorite aspects of the thing that we're into. And it's important to note. Luke over at Mad Vintage, he's looking to buy, he's looking to trade. He wants to see what you got. You know, you have things you haven't worn in a long time in that closet.

[Bo]

Might sell them to him and see him on this show someday. So let's hurry it up. Hit him up. I want him. Our closets are full, so please get the stuff before we do.

[Colin]

I can't take anymore.

[Bo]

No, that's code Harlor. 15 for 15 off mad vintage. Back to the episode. What's the worst venue in the country?

[Colin]

Oh, great question.

[Mac Miller]

Cobalt Cafe. I mean, yeah, man, I. I can't think of a specific venue, but, like, there's all these spots that, you know, a live nation tour will just book a show at where it's like, it's a stage in the field. It's the amp. The whatever amphitheater. Whatever bank is calling this an amphitheater today for some reason. And you're like. You mean the. The mud pit that you haven't resided since the storm three days ago? Why are we doing a show here? And. Oh, there's your merch stand. And it's like a frame of a tent with no coverage.

[Bo]

Perfect.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah.

[Bo]

Do you have your. The last few years of your career have been defined. You've been with Wallows a ton.

[Mac Miller]

Wallows.

[Bo]

You like. You like touring with them?

[Mac Miller]

Love them. Valley boys.

[Bo]

Boys.

[Mac Miller]

Sweet, sweet boys.

[Bo]

You like and how br. Like the. So the singer of Wallows is Dylan Manette. Actor sensation.

[Mac Miller]

Lovely guy.

[Bo]

Prisoners. Dude, he's in prison.

[Colin]

Okay, okay.

[Bo]

You're in prisoners. You can do whatever you want. Sure.

[Mac Miller]

Shout out if you guys are listening.

[Bo]

Yeah, totally.

[Mac Miller]

Big fans of hard lore.

[Bo]

Yeah, totally. I don't know. Drain. You've been touring with Drain a lot. How's that?

[Mac Miller]

They might be listening.

[Bo]

Sam, how you doing? Send a break dance back.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah, I. I love Dream I Best guys ever.

[Bo]

Is there a band that you. Are you clear your schedule for more than any at this point?

[Mac Miller]

Probably. Drain. Yeah. The only reason. The only times I won't is if it's. They have like a three day thing and I have a month of touring. I have to do that.

[Colin]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Mac Miller]

Denzel Curry is the other dude. Whatever he's got, I'll do it. It's just like he loves You. He's best, you know. But it's like doing this as long as I have, honestly doing the Cosmic Joke stuff and Holy Blade stuff has kind of changed my perspective where I'm like, I just want to do this stuff that makes me happy now. I don't need to just like, yes, it's my job and I'm fortunate enough to like my job, but I don't want to just grind myself into the ground doing work, just to work on tours I don't want to do.

[Bo]

Totally.

[Mac Miller]

And when I go out with Drain or when I go with Denzel Curry or even Death Cab, honestly, or Wallace to some extent, like, it feels like home. And it feels like it's obviously cushier than the van tours we've all done, but you're with these people with like minded sensibilities.

[Colin]

Yeah.

[Mac Miller]

And it's, it, it feels like home. It's like, this is what I'm used to.

[Colin]

So all it takes is, is to be on one of those bigger tours and you have a run in with someone who doesn't come from that world and you immediately are just like, oh, like, this is the rockstar we. One of our first bigger tours was with at the Gates and one of the support bands had a TM for them. And the TM was the problem to the point where the band was apologizing to us on his behalf. Like, sorry, we don't know why he's being like that. And it was immediate. Like one of the things he said was like, on this tour, I could have been in Europe with Tesseract and you're just like, go, go.

[Mac Miller]

You know, do that. Yeah.

[Colin]

Just, just really. And you're right. When you find out that there are secret punks in, in the crew in production, dude. Especially if it's a TM who's cool. Like the, of the TM of the whole tour.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah, I mean there's, there's plenty of, you know, there's plenty of acts where like, you know, on these bigger tours there's large crews and you can usually find a handful of people you get along with. And there's plenty of people like, you know, we're best friends on the tour. I don't really talk to you anymore. And then there's some people are like, these are my lifelong friends.

[Colin]

Yeah.

[Bo]

Drain, you barely knew when you took the tour. That was like immediate.

[Mac Miller]

I, I mean that story is hilarious, but I.

[Bo]

You were here.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah, no, I, I had worked the merch tent at one of those punk in the park festivals. Happened to meet the Drain guys because. Well, I think I met them really quickly at the first Twitch bits, really briefly. I was also in costume, so they did not remember me. And then was working a this festival and like, Sammy was dropping off their merch because it was a venue sale festival thing. And we talked for like a second, nothing crazy, but I was like, oh, that was me. That sold twitching tongues merch. What's up, dude? He somehow remembered that a couple months later found my Twitter messaged me and was just like, hey. I mean, the message is hilarious, but it's like, hey, we're on tour right now. Are you busy tomorrow for the next three weeks.

[Bo]

And you had just gotten home from something.

[Mac Miller]

I think I got home days before and then the tail end of it. We were going to Japan together. So I like. I was like, I can do. I'm down to come out tomorrow, but I gotta leave. Like, miss the last three days or something. And it's like, for sure we just need somebody. Please come out. And immediately I was like, these are my people. Like, it feels. I mean, I. You know, I. I love. It's really cool to do the big cushy stuff, but something and something. It just immediately felt like getting back in the van, which I hadn't done. Like, when the sheds broke up, I accepted. Like, I'm not. I don't play in bands anymore. And I'm. I still did some van tours, but not much. And I. It immediately just. It was like nostalgic in this crazy way of just like poop jokes. Let's go. You know? Yeah. Big poop guys.

[Bo]

Big poop guys. Farting. Farting all around.

[Colin]

Opposite of that of Colin's. Question, what is your favorite venue? Like, like a big one. Give me like a. Like, what's like a. That's a nice place, you know, like.

[Bo]

An arena we'll never be able to play.

[Colin]

Yeah, that.

[Bo]

That like on the insiders are like dope.

[Mac Miller]

So a lot of outdoor stuff just plain sucks, Especially do merch. But, like, the Hollywood bowl is really cool.

[Bo]

Oh yeah. And it's just going there is awesome.

[Colin]

Yeah, it sounds.

[Mac Miller]

And the Forum, honestly, in LA is really cool. They're really like. The crew there is really sweet. Like, it's the worst. I hate the farm, but to work. Yeah, yeah.

[Bo]

Hate going there.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah. I mean, I don't want to go to Englewood. Really. It's. I don't want to go west of.

[Bo]

Dude. Sofi was pretty dope.

[Mac Miller]

You got to go like in.

[Bo]

That was crazy.

[Mac Miller]

I. I haven't Seen other than the top deck at. So far.

[Bo]

Yeah, I'm sure you will soon. Cosmic Joke lp, dude.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah. But. Yeah, it all depends. But what makes the day good for me is if, like, the house merch crew is a nightmare or not. And mostly they're pretty good. Yeah. And if it's like a real venue, it sucks to be like the Live Nation ones. They know what they're doing, but they. They're usually hiring someone who professionally really knows what they're doing.

[Bo]

How. How do you, as a pro merch guy feel about merch cuts and how to navigate them?

[Mac Miller]

I. So when I'm like, with a headline.

[Bo]

Act, there's nothing you can do?

[Mac Miller]

Well, so it's hard to explain, like, without selling anyone out and stuff. Yeah, of course, if I'm working for a merch company and I'm hired by the merch company and working for a band and like, the booking agent contracted these merch cuts, we're just paying the merch cut like it's what it is. Yeah, yeah. Now I've worked with some bands that they, let's say they sell a ton of merch. They can have their agent, they know what they have. They know that they're going to sell a lot of merch.

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Mac Miller]

They negotiate with their agents and like, hey, we work in some deal, like, hey, if we hit this number, drop it 10 or whatever. And it honestly, if you're hitting those numbers 10, whatever, your percentage still pretty good. And they're happy.

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Mac Miller]

So. But I'm always advocating for, like, the support acts. It's hard when, when it's venue sales, nothing you can do.

[Colin]

Yeah, right. Because you're counted in. Count it out, it's done.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah. But if it's, you know, if I'm selling and there's an opener next to me and they take off, I'm four weeks into a tour. I know this guy really well. And they're like, what happened to Band X where they, like, they didn't pay? Like, oh, they're just on. I don't know. I haven't even talked to that guy yet.

[Colin]

Yeah, yeah. Because they don't know. The. That's good people. The house people don't know.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah. And like, if you're a support act, I mean, I don't truly. I don't know. I'm sure some of our agent friends out there who, who don't fight for this necessarily. But like, if you're a support act, you're kind of just along for the ride of whatever the headliners Deal is. And that sucks. Like, you know, if you're. You need every cent, you can get you 100.

[Colin]

Oh, yeah.

[Mac Miller]

But I do think merch cuts have gotten absolutely out of control. I think at, you know, at some of the festivals, it's like 30.

[Colin]

30.

[Mac Miller]

Yes.

[Bo]

Blow your brains out.

[Mac Miller]

And like, the festival crew does a lot, but they also sell a lot. And that percentage makes out to be a lot.

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Mac Miller]

And it's 30%.

[Bo]

And like, I'm not. No member of the band is making 30.

[Colin]

Also. It's 30 gross, not net.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah.

[Colin]

Like, that doesn't account for. Oh, my God.

[Bo]

It should be net.

[Mac Miller]

And like, we don't always know the whole story. Sometimes, like the merch company that's handling this, they have to build, like, rent the storage containers that you're using. Like, there's a lot of expenses that you don't normally have, but you'd be fine with 20%, which is still very.

[Bo]

High and way too high.

[Mac Miller]

I was talking about this recently, but I think if it's like a normal ass theater show, let's say they have a really nice merch space. They bought the nice grids, they have tables, they got good wifi, they got lighting, they got everything. Man, this must be so boring to everybody listening.

[Bo]

I'm engaged.

[Mac Miller]

Actually provide you with a service. They're checking in on you while you're setting up. They're like, hey, I'm. Here's my phone number. If the WI fi cuts out, I'll come back by 5%. Yeah, that's, you know, straight up. Because that's still you.

[Bo]

You still didn't do 5% of the work to bring this merch here. And yeah, I. I could sell this in the parking lot and do almost as well.

[Colin]

To your point, Mac, it. It is 100%, especially on the tours that you're working on. Mostly, like, the headliners, they don't give a. Because they're getting the door.

[Mac Miller]

They're.

[Colin]

They're doing fine. And it is.

[Bo]

They can raise the price accordingly of their memorabilia to. To negate the opener.

[Mac Miller]

Doesn't want to sell hoodie.

[Bo]

Exactly.

[Mac Miller]

And.

[Colin]

And you know what?

[Mac Miller]

All.

[Colin]

Any opening band out there, you know, there's. There's ways don't pay that merch cut. Nobody should pay the real merch.

[Bo]

Lie message, Mac.

[Colin]

Lie through your teeth.

[Bo]

Over your dead body should you pay 20 to any motherfucker on earth ever, Ever. He can't. He can't comment as extensively as he has to deal with these reps and stuff.

[Mac Miller]

I'm also Not. I'm not going to name names, but years ago, I remember meeting up with. It was like post Pandemic Touring had just come back. I got Brittany and I got brunch with a couple of friends. A couple of them work for Live Nation. And one of them was just like, you're a merch guy. Like, can you believe what I was just dealing with? I spent the last three days trying to get a hold of this band. We called their agent, called their tour manager. They skipped out on this merch cut and we just can't get a hold of them. And it's, it's like a band we know. And they, they were like. And I was like, how much do they owe you guys? Like, well, we don't know what they sold, but like probably like a hundred and twenty dollars.

[Bo]

Oh my God.

[Mac Miller]

What is your. What's your daily salary? You just wasted your company money trying to chase that down for three days.

[Bo]

Way more than.

[Mac Miller]

Why do you care?

[Bo]

Yeah, dude.

[Mac Miller]

So it's just the principle.

[Bo]

Look in the mirror and, and, and do what you need to do. Okay.

[Colin]

There's a, a very well known band who we already talked about tonight. I won't say who, but I know they had a, a program, like a system with their merch guy. This is over 10 years ago where it was like, hey, if the merch cut is 20, we will give you 10 of the cut. If you pay as little of a merch cut as possible.

[Bo]

That's genius.

[Colin]

So you're just incentivizing your merch guy to get creative. Figure it out.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah. One of the first bigger tours I did, it was like House of Blues type sizes.

[Colin]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mac Miller]

And stuff. Which, I mean, those are the hard.

[Colin]

Yeah, those are hard.

[Mac Miller]

If they also, to an extent also if they're coming and counting your merch and counting you out.

[Colin]

Yeah.

[Mac Miller]

Yes. It's a pain.

[Bo]

I should be able to whoop your ass.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah, but then you're not touch my stuff. But like, if they. They ahead of time, we're like, hey, at this venue we count you in and count you up. Like again, you agreed to play the show. This is part of the deal. Yeah, yeah, it sucks. There's nothing you can really do about it. But honestly, like, I have friends that like take real issue with this and light them up and it's like at a certain rate, like they are.

[Bo]

That girl who's approaching you, it's not her fault.

[Colin]

100.

[Mac Miller]

Like, yes. Yeah. I don't, like, I don't give a. About Live Nation saving Money or whoever. But, like, they are paying somebody to be here. So, like, it's someone's job to make sure. I'm just saying there's a difference. When they come and count your stuff and care, they. If they care at all. Cool. Versus, like, 2%. But I'm just saying. Versus. At. At 11:30 at night, you're getting ready to load out, and the first time you hear from somebody walking was like, Steve. So it's gonna be 15. Like, who the Are you?

[Colin]

Yeah, yeah, I've also.

[Bo]

Last thing, I'll give you 100% of these, baby.

[Colin]

Last thing I'll say about this, too, is I definitely was unloading merch one time, got approached like, hey, I need to count you in. And I gave the whole fine. I shouldn't have done that.

[Bo]

Makes it so much work.

[Colin]

I should have been like, oh, I'd be happy to help you. You know, you catch more bees with honey than many or blah, blah, and more times than I. If you're just cool and you're nicer.

[Mac Miller]

I mean, they're gonna let you.

[Colin]

They will straight up be like, all right, don't worry about it. At the end of the night.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah.

[Colin]

And that happens a lot.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah. If you're like, we did under a grand or under 500 bucks.

[Colin]

Yeah. They're just, all right, you're fine.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah. They used to call that either the. The homeboy pool or inventory, where you're just like, oh, you're counting. You empty your trailer instead of just bringing what you need.

[Colin]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I need it.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah. Thanks for inventory.

[Bo]

That's cool.

[Colin]

Yeah.

[Mac Miller]

I mean, not really, but it's smart.

[Colin]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Bo]

Rob me. You may as well help me, too. Do you have any merch? Pet peeves to the. Either the buyers or the sellers or anything in between.

[Mac Miller]

I mean, like, I have. I honestly like not to talk about myself, but, like, I have way more patience than most merch people. I'm not. Like, every once in a while, like, I. I made a joke recently where, like, if you could do a mic'd up episode, like, like, for athletes, we just put a mic.

[Bo]

You do emerge.

[Mac Miller]

I'm like, hey, how can I help you? And then as soon as I turn around to grab something, I'm just talking under my breath. Medium. If you say Schmedium, I'm to beat your ass, I'll tell you that.

[Bo]

They do that still.

[Mac Miller]

I. There's the. The. I'm not going to name bands, but the white reggae demographic cannot believe Schmedium. They think it's the funniest thing ever. Pick. Pick one. But yeah, Schmedium is a pet peeve, for sure. I try not to put stuff on the tables because I just don't want people picking stuff.

[Bo]

I really do.

[Mac Miller]

But, like, I have total patience. If you're asking to see sizes, asking what the blank is, you know, because we all buy merch, I want to know.

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Colin]

I have preferences, of course, Mac, but do you have a preference of hanger versus directly to the grid versus the half mannequin things?

[Mac Miller]

I like using binder clips directly to the grid, personally.

[Colin]

Interesting. More work for you.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah. But I feel like you can make it look real clean.

[Colin]

You can make it look good.

[Mac Miller]

I don't mind the. The body forms. The body forms mannequins.

[Colin]

Okay.

[Bo]

But it's a lot to lug around it also.

[Mac Miller]

So you're not like, trashing the shirts or breaking them and stuff. You still have to, like, disassemble them kind of. You can just throw them all in.

[Colin]

But, dude, Acacia Strain. And we started doing it for a while too. They would just tape the shirts onto.

[Mac Miller]

The racks and leave them on.

[Colin]

Throw them in the trailer. Yeah. And then, Mac, give us. Give us some Wolf of Wall street insider trading. What's selling right now? What are people buying? What's hot?

[Mac Miller]

I mean, I. It's hard to speak to, like, what. It's very.

[Bo]

There's a difference between what Denzel Curry is selling, what Wallace is selling.

[Colin]

Because the pop. The pop mindset is still Tik Tok and Internet, you know?

[Mac Miller]

Yeah. I mean, I. Merch is. There was a huge boom after the pandemic, and I don't think merch numbers have dropped. I think ticket sales have dropped a little bit.

[Colin]

Yeah.

[Mac Miller]

But people who are there are still.

[Bo]

Going to spend what they're going to spend, but less people are coming.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah. And I. I think a black shirt will always do well. I think anyone who does. If you're doing more than a week on the road and you don't have a torture, you're a fool. Really? Yeah.

[Bo]

The tour shirts used to eat.

[Mac Miller]

I remember we didn't do one for Drain on one tour. And every day I was, like, asked by everybody. It was like, why didn't you guys do that?

[Bo]

Dude. What. But what happened that the torches became cool? I've got 500.

[Mac Miller]

No, no, no, no.

[Colin]

We believe you. I'll tell you, I think it's probably the pandemic. People who are new to it are like, I want to remember this thing.

[Mac Miller]

I guess even Me though, because like we all mostly buy and wear vintage shirts, but if I'm gonna go see a band, I often do want a tour shirt.

[Colin]

Dude, I love the vintage tour shirt.

[Bo]

Yeah, that's. I love a 91, I don't love.

[Mac Miller]

A 23, but I'm be.

[Colin]

Yeah, I don't know if you know that. About time, Colin, but eventually.

[Bo]

I know, but it's, that's. Hindsight is.

[Mac Miller]

Joey.

[Bo]

Joey.

[Mac Miller]

But like when I'm thinking about like recently I went through, I had my, I was going through like my bins of the other day and I found like a Streetlight Manifesto tour shirt from a tour in 2007. And I was like, damn, 2007. This was my new weird. Like I wanted an older one at the time. And now I have this basically dead stock street light, 20 year old, 20 year old shirt. Yeah, you know, like I, I'm still down to just.

[Bo]

I love a tour shirt. I, I stopped making them because I thought that.

[Mac Miller]

I thought they were going on tour.

[Colin]

Well, no, but also when you come home with 50 of them, you're.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah, well, and that's the other thing is like even you know any, any bands, any hardcore bands listening, any of our friends, if you're like doing projections for Merchant, talk to me. I'll help a little bit at least. Like if you're doing a long enough tour, you don't need to order what you think 100 of what you need is order 60. And then if that thing eats, you don't have the extra 40.

[Bo]

Right.

[Colin]

Beautiful.

[Mac Miller]

Like, you know, smart. Also, if you're abandoned, you're trying to keep track of your accounting and stuff. I've done this for a bunch of our friends. I made like a Google Doc where you can keep track of all your accounting. You don't need to pay me for it. I just want people to be organized and not. And know how much money they owe or don't have, you know?

[Bo]

Yeah, it's funny that you're this organized, but put your turn your Apple maps on while you're driving. And Mac has a thing that we refer to as hard mode, where for some reason you're, you're, you know, it's insane. No matter which phone you have, when you update your phone, the new phone is Hard mode Mode too. Yeah, his map doesn't work.

[Colin]

I've seen, I've seen.

[Bo]

It's crazy, dude.

[Colin]

It's crazy.

[Bo]

I'm sick of hard Mode, dude. I hate when you drive. It'll be like, take this exit. It was 15 miles back. And then it's just spinning. He's insane.

[Mac Miller]

Hard mode.

[Bo]

And then he sent. He'll do this thing, dude.

[Mac Miller]

He's.

[Bo]

He's a big Google Maps guy, and he'll send me links via Google Maps, which send you. You get five texts.

[Mac Miller]

I think they switched it. But sending, like, the URL. A photo.

[Colin]

Yeah.

[Bo]

The phone number, the address, the app link.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah.

[Bo]

Every time. Drove me nuts.

[Mac Miller]

I started doing as a bit.

[Bo]

To be fair, I hated it.

[Colin]

I hate Google Maps, dude.

[Bo]

All right, we're winding down a little bit here, but let's. Let's get into some. Some classics here. First of all, tell me your plans for cosmic joke in 2025, 2026.

[Mac Miller]

So the whole thing with this band is, like. It's funny because I'm the one who's gone all the time, but I'm the most like. Like, I'll take two months off. Let's go tour. But, you know, this band was made to be a thing for fun. And I. I Wish we were 23 again and we could all go for it. And part of the time, sometimes I'm like, damn, I wish I got people who could tour in this band. But if it was different people, this music wouldn't be what I would say.

[Colin]

Of course.

[Mac Miller]

So, you know, everyone's got their careers now, and that's cool, but we're gonna do as much as we can. We've been doing festivals, weekends, fly dates.

[Colin]

Mac. It's also very possible that, like, if you were all just going for it, it wouldn't work.

[Bo]

It wouldn't be the same.

[Colin]

Maybe you wouldn't last or wouldn't. The longevity wouldn't be there.

[Mac Miller]

You know, I mean, we have the most fun in the world doing it. It's all of our favorite thing that we can't do all the time.

[Bo]

Right.

[Colin]

It's awesome.

[Mac Miller]

Which. Yeah. But, yeah, we're gonna hit the east coast for the first time in the fall. Nice. That'll be coming up soon.

[Colin]

You played the Rumble a week ago, which I'm assuming was great.

[Bo]

Yeah. Had to be great.

[Colin]

It had to be so good.

[Mac Miller]

It is. In two days.

[Bo]

No, it was a week ago.

[Colin]

It was a week ago. Mackie.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah. That Beats set was really? Yeah.

[Bo]

Vomit. Fourth right after you. Insane. Yeah, that makes complete sense.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah. Yeah. Rock block. Cosmic Joke. Bad beat. Vomit Fourth.

[Bo]

That's what they're saying.

[Mac Miller]

And then Evan Rowe watching E Town.

[Bo]

That's the best.

[Mac Miller]

What a fascinating guy. Oh, the most interesting man.

[Bo]

Evan from let's. Let's run down the the band members here. You got Morgan on guitar.

[Mac Miller]

Yep. Your brother, You've known him for a while, Nikki. Known him for 20 years. He's the chef of Little Fish Makes a Meat Sandwich. I don't think this is anything they're keeping to themselves, but there's going to be a full service. Full on, like, nice ass.

[Bo]

And you can invest.

[Mac Miller]

Yes.

[Bo]

Hit him up.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah, straight up. Little Fish looking for investors. If you're interested in a restaurant that's gonna win a mission, we need a.

[Colin]

Finder'S fee for that one. For that little plug there.

[Bo]

Yeah. I want 30 bucks.

[Mac Miller]

And then Jake Goldstein, who plays, played in a band called Honey Forever that I used to tour manage.

[Bo]

Unbelievable. Indie band.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah. Check them out. Epitaph Jake, I mean, best guy. He's like, he is. He's our guy that loves 80s punk, post punk, 80s hardcore. And then like, as far as modern stuff goes, Love Ceremony and up.

[Bo]

He's having a great time, like, discovering modern music.

[Mac Miller]

Yes. Yeah.

[Bo]

But he'll be the first one to be like, dude, panda head is DJing down at.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah.

[Bo]

O'Reilly's.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah, he's the best. Like, yeah, he. It's cool because he's unclouded by new hardcore. He's just like, dude, dead Kennedys, Hell yeah.

[Bo]

But then he's also like, dude, Soul Search was so dope last night.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah. Never heard him.

[Bo]

That's awesome.

[Colin]

That's cool.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah.

[Colin]

I mean, that's really cool. That's interesting.

[Mac Miller]

It's so fun having, like, seeing everything through his lens. Yeah. And then we have Evan Rowe, who's from Brick Jersey, but has lived in LA for 10 years or so. Dude, him joining the band, it was an absolute.

[Bo]

So awesome.

[Mac Miller]

Just like his entire existence, absolute wild card move.

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Mac Miller]

He ended up moving in with our friend Eric. And at some point we just learned.

[Bo]

Which was all facilitated by Pat Kinlay.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah. And yeah, we were just like, oh, that guy plays guitar. We need someone to fill in for the show. And then he just ended up in the band. And he's the best.

[Bo]

Crazy eyed. Him and Jake also live. I could throw stones at both of their residences.

[Colin]

It's cool though, that, that when you're able to. You continue the Valley custom of three.

[Bo]

Guitars to advance the legend.

[Colin]

I love that.

[Mac Miller]

Oxnard. The mayor of Oxnard.

[Colin]

Yeah, I love that.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah. Yeah. It's fewer and fewer further between. He's honestly, what he's mostly busy with is doing VCHC shows with Cam up there. But Vince is like, open invite member if you're Available. Please do whatever. Like, you're welcome to do absolutely whatever with us. Love it.

[Colin]

And then, Mac, it must be pointed out that you have one of my favorite styles where you own the mic stand as a singer. As a standalone singer.

[Bo]

You're good at that mic stand.

[Colin]

I think it's awesome.

[Mac Miller]

I mean, I legit bring one whenever I can because if there's a bendy stand, I'm not.

[Colin]

Oh, yeah, the booms. The boom stand is no good. No good.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah, I. It feels comfortable, and I just noticed not a lot of people were doing it.

[Colin]

Yeah, it's awesome. I think I literally. I think you like. Oh, like, you own it. You make it your own thing. I think it's really cool.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah, I.

[Bo]

You do all the stuff, as Mike Getter would say.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah. Yeah. I. I don't know. I love. I don't know. I'm just doing what feels comfortable.

[Bo]

Really good. Can you tell me your top four hardcore records of all time?

[Mac Miller]

Battle is no Control?

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Mac Miller]

I'd say Minor Threat, out of Step Hate, Brief Brutality.

[Bo]

Really?

[Mac Miller]

That's just the one that got me into them, dude.

[Colin]

It's. That's a great pick. Great record.

[Mac Miller]

Like, I. I went back later and, like. But it's bangers.

[Bo]

Yeah. Yeah. It's crazy.

[Colin]

It's a rich record.

[Bo]

It only took a year to write and record, too.

[Mac Miller]

And maybe group sex. Circle.

[Colin]

Circle drinks. All right, Cool. Album art on group sex.

[Mac Miller]

Oh, yeah.

[Colin]

They're all in it. It's awesome.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah. I love school collage.

[Bo]

Can you do me one more favor? Can you tell me your top four sky records of all time?

[Colin]

Yeah, that. Let's hear it.

[Bo]

I would ever.

[Mac Miller]

Bostones, let's face it.

[Bo]

Yeah. That's Age of Quarrel of Scott Streetlight.

[Mac Miller]

Everything Went numb.

[Bo]

Street Light. You got some shows with them coming up.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah. Dream come True that my hardcore band is playing with Street Light Manifesto before my Scott band and you.

[Bo]

But you did gang vocals on their record in 2013, did you not?

[Mac Miller]

I did. I. I also did one of my first tours was the band supporting them, and then I just watched them every day. And then years later, friend of ours was like, their. Their own label. Like, they run their own label, managing their label and was just like, we need someone who can sing melody in LA to do gang vocals. Nice. Yeah, I got. It's funny because I was thinking about, like, oh, that was like six years ago.

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Mac Miller]

And it's. They just Today put out three new songs. It's their first in 12 years.

[Colin]

Whoa.

[Bo]

Up.

[Mac Miller]

Wow.

[Bo]

So since that. These are their first. Wow.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah. Crazy and so Sorry Street Life Boston's.

[Bo]

Is that the one with that crazy opening track on it? The one that blew my mind in the between song.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah.

[Colin]

You made me listen to it. I remember this came up really early on in the show. And you made.

[Bo]

The horn riff is wild.

[Colin]

Yeah.

[Bo]

It's a rip.

[Mac Miller]

We will fall together off of somewhere in the between.

[Bo]

Dude. Hard ass horn.

[Colin]

Yeah. I remember you make me listen to that.

[Bo]

The horns are palm muting. It's unbelievable.

[Mac Miller]

Damn. I'm trying to think of more. Probably Suicide Machines. Destruction By Definition and the first English Beat record. Yeah.

[Colin]

Band I've never heard of before in my life.

[Bo]

Top four Ska. You don't think you Cosmic joke.

[Colin]

I think.

[Mac Miller]

I think that English Beat is a band that I think everybody should give a shot because it's. It's touching on new wave. If you like like Elvis Costello type stuff. If you like the Clash. If you like even like Devo stuff. It kind of fits in there a little more. It's. It's close to madness. In the Specials too.

[Colin]

One of the. I love the Specials. One of the drummers from Suicide Machines was Derek.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah.

[Colin]

Rant went on to do Alkaline Trio and he's Ledge. Open handed dude. Just like you.

[Mac Miller]

I mean the rhythm section on Destruction By Definition. Like the Sheds tried to cover the song New Girl from Tony Hawk.

[Colin]

Yeah.

[Mac Miller]

And I think we tried it at one practice. Like that'll never be good.

[Colin]

Good song.

[Mac Miller]

Insane.

[Bo]

Who. Who do you do Mac? Who's your guy? Guys?

[Mac Miller]

Probably Freddy Madball. I would say Milo Aerman descendants.

[Bo]

Yeah, I can see that.

[Colin]

I can see that.

[Mac Miller]

A bit of Anthony Kiedis. Honestly.

[Bo]

Which bit?

[Mac Miller]

They're good. Yeah. A bit of Greg Graphen. Bad Religion.

[Bo]

The Glass.

[Mac Miller]

It's like.

[Bo]

And the bald head again.

[Mac Miller]

I'm just doing what feels comfortable. I think Milo is the one where I really consciously. Oh. I've often found without consciously doing it that I've been like I'll do something like that felt cool that I've seen Ross from Ceremony do that.

[Bo]

He's done a lot of stuff I could also.

[Colin]

Dude. There's a bit of Keith Morris and Circle Jerks. Used to. Used to rock the mic stand.

[Mac Miller]

Same hair. Yeah.

[Colin]

Big full hair.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah.

[Bo]

Totally. Let me ask something back. I think. I think I totally. Yeah. Totally. I think I already know the answer to this question. Do you. You believe in ghosts?

[Mac Miller]

I don't. I. I haven't had any like unexplained run ins. It's weird. I'll like, if I'm alone in a big old room, like house sitting for someone, I'll feel scared.

[Colin]

Yeah.

[Mac Miller]

But not because of ghosts or anything. It's more like home invasion. What is.

[Bo]

What is Judaism's stance on ghosts?

[Mac Miller]

I have no idea. Honestly, I. I really don't.

[Colin]

Well, so what's interesting is, like, my stepmother was raised Jewish. She converted and she's a born again Christian.

[Bo]

And what was her stance on ghosts?

[Colin]

They are. They don't believe in luck. They don't believe in ghosts. Like nothing. Nothing other than God. And that's kind of like a. A more. Not Orthodox, but a more, you know, Old Testament kind of conservative leaning into it. So I don't think Judaism is down with ghosts.

[Bo]

Damn.

[Colin]

I don't actually know. Does Judaism observe angels?

[Mac Miller]

I don't think so. I don't think it's weird. Like, I'm. I'm Jewish, purely culturally. I think I. You know, I went to temple twice with my dad and grandpa and my mom is Catholic and I never went to church other than for funerals and stuff. So I know slightly more about Judaism and still not really, but ghosts.

[Bo]

Non factor.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah, non factor. I.

[Bo]

There you have it.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah, it's weird. I mean, on a broader topic. I don't. Not you. I know. Not that it's the same thing, but, like, I don't believe in God, but I do. Or I don't believe like in heaven necessarily, but I do, like, think about, like, where the energy is. Yeah, I guess.

[Colin]

Yeah.

[Mac Miller]

You know, like, it's. Amy, is the, like, comfortable thought of, like. Oh, there's. There's some. There's something somewhere.

[Bo]

You hope there's something somewhere.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm definitely. I would say I'm more agnostic than atheist.

[Colin]

Well, that's the thing. Nobody's really atheist.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah. Being an absolutist in any sense is, like, foolish.

[Colin]

Nobody knows.

[Bo]

Nobody knows. But I'm. I'm. I'm on Glenn Benton's side here.

[Colin]

He.

[Bo]

Or if you. If it. Whatever exists must die.

[Colin]

Dude, what was the clip? Recently I saw a clip of Dave Mustaine saying deicide. Wrong. Did you see this?

[Bo]

He says, like, diaced, dude. And he's like, what do you. He's. It's the. It's nonsense. He's like, he's already killed before.

[Colin]

Yeah, he's already killed somebody. I guess so.

[Bo]

It's so stupid. Dave, if you want to be on the show.

[Colin]

Yeah. Just let us know.

[Bo]

We'd love to have you. Tell me about. I know you eat good you're vegetarian now, but I know you still get fat from time to time with your boy.

[Mac Miller]

Almost strictly when I'm with you.

[Bo]

No, no, that's one of my. That's one of my favorite mechanisms is. No, it's good.

[Mac Miller]

It's like, I can't believe that, like.

[Bo]

I'm like, this band sucks.

[Mac Miller]

No, it's good. And then. And they. They sucked. Yeah.

[Bo]

And then my stomach hurts is one that you got.

[Mac Miller]

I did. Okay, this is a fun story. I was on tour with this. This rapper. Not Denzel. This rapper. I'd never met him before. We were, like, a week into the tour, so I know the whole crew and everything, but I've not met this guy. And I'm in the elevator getting down to the lobby to meet a friend to go get food. And as the elevator doors open, because I just see a body and I assumed it was my buddy, I just go, my stomach hurts. And I look up, and it's him. Hi, I'm Mac. Nice.

[Bo]

I'm doing your merch.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah, sorry. Yeah. Please don't send me home. My stomach.

[Colin]

Oh, my God.

[Bo]

Yeah, I've definitely taken that with that merch. Kid's weird. Yeah.

[Mac Miller]

Someone tongues stones.

[Bo]

So with Cosmic Joke on the short tours, you can do. Nikki's a really good guide with food. He's got, like, a crazy spot. Absolutely.

[Colin]

Yes, he is. He tapped in.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah. I mean, it goes back to friends of ours, band, Bad Sons from the Valley. Nikki quit the Sheds at one point to tour manage them, and I started doing merch for them, which, like, when I, I. We kind of skipped over this. But I ended up touring with Strung out, which was the first band that took me on tour. But I was always drum teching for them. I didn't really know how to, you know, I would be the same way we saw merch for our own bands. Like, yeah, I sold merch, but I don't know what I'm doing.

[Colin]

Yeah.

[Mac Miller]

And then Bad Sons took me out. And that's like, when I was like, I guess I'm a merch guy now. And because just Nicky and I were on our same schedule, he would constantly be like, I got a spot. And it was always like, I'll pay for half the Uber. I'll pay for half the food. Just order whatever. Like, right? And he always. He wasn't even fully like a chef then. He just was. He just was down, tapped in, in new spots everywhere. So anytime we're traveling, whatever, I'll be like, yo, in Buffalo, do you have a spot that's not like. Not just a wing spot.

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Mac Miller]

What do you got? Send me something.

[Bo]

It's always been good.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah.

[Bo]

He knows. He just found this ham place in Detroit that he's obsessed with.

[Colin]

Ham?

[Bo]

Yeah. He's like, it's the best ham I've ever had.

[Mac Miller]

It's like ham sandwich.

[Bo]

Only when you call, they go ham place.

[Colin]

So what do you got there, Mac? You also have a beautiful spreadsheet that I believe is gate. Kept purposefully, if I'm not wrong, of coffee spots. Your big coffee. Oh.

[Mac Miller]

I mean, if you ask for it, I'll send you. Okay.

[Colin]

So mildly gay kept.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah, it's. I ended up in this coffee group chat with, like, 25 people. I probably have six of the numbers saved to this day.

[Colin]

Yeah.

[Mac Miller]

And a friend of ours who's kind of a friend to all who tour, he saved. He. He made this Google sheet. And then basically everybody who joins this can just save spots in any given city. And when you open it up, it's got like 700 shops in it. Some of them are like, when we're in Japan, that we're. Spots.

[Colin]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mac Miller]

And I'll just pull up whatever's the closest one to you. Right. Then whether. And they're usually. Because it's all touring people within walking distance of a venue.

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Colin]

Which is lifesaver.

[Bo]

Is Jacob Alondra in there?

[Mac Miller]

For sure.

[Bo]

That's the king. Jacob. Alejandro, if you're listening, we'd love to have you on.

[Mac Miller]

Oh, you're unbelievable, Jacob.

[Bo]

We got some Patreon Q A stuff now to wind this down. John Boyga asks Mary. Kill. Trombone. Tuba. Saxophone.

[Colin]

Damn. Tuba is not really the scon all day. We need that trumpet. The coronet.

[Mac Miller]

I'd say trombone, because if you're doing it right, it's incredible. Yeah. Mary. Saxophone, because it's more.

[Bo]

You can use that anyway.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah, it. It's.

[Bo]

I'm with you.

[Mac Miller]

100.

[Bo]

You killed that.

[Colin]

Interesting.

[Bo]

Does that thing Fortnite. Yeah. You're pretty good.

[Mac Miller]

I'm not good.

[Bo]

But you're getting there.

[Mac Miller]

That thing.

[Bo]

Do you don't suck.

[Mac Miller]

I don't suck. I'm not good. I honestly don't even love playing Fortnite. But it is nice being able to hang out with people.

[Colin]

That's exactly how both of you hang.

[Mac Miller]

Out for six hours. And then he drops me off and I'm like, all right, I'll talk to.

[Bo]

You in 20 minutes. Yeah, get on the game. Terry, Carol asked a great question here. What's it like being one of Colin's best friends. It's great. I. I can't answer for him.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah. What's.

[Bo]

It's great.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah, it's great. It's. I don't know. It's funny to have somebody who, like. It's great that you're on a similar program where, like, when I am home from Tor.

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Mac Miller]

We pretty much have a shitload of free time to do whatever every day we're doing. Usually something active. Go on a hike pretty frequently.

[Colin]

That's nice.

[Mac Miller]

And then eat something shitty. Yeah.

[Bo]

No, we don't.

[Colin]

No, no, you. You break even.

[Bo]

Right? Exactly. Yeah. Favorite mustache rocked by anyone ever.

[Colin]

Oh, let's see.

[Bo]

Got a one. Tom Selleck is like. I mean, is like the mustache that's referenced. Yeah.

[Colin]

Oh, dude. Sam Elliott.

[Mac Miller]

That's incredible. I'm trying to think of someone who's not. Who doesn't usually have one. And then there's like one role where it just.

[Bo]

Dude, Chris Evans had a really good. Chris Evans had a mustache so good in something that I was like, damn, it's. Oh, you know what? The Henry Cavill mustache in Mission Impossible Fall, Dude, I think that thing made me think I could. I could have.

[Colin]

Yeah, dude, I think Henry legit.

[Mac Miller]

You literally could. Yeah, but.

[Bo]

But it's not just. If I was just this. I'd be different.

[Colin]

Henry Cavill, I think, might be the most handsome person, like, just the most handsome. He's just it.

[Mac Miller]

That's a guy that, like, I've known that name forever, and I watch a lot of movies and I did not know him from anything.

[Bo]

He ain't in stuff. You.

[Colin]

Yeah.

[Mac Miller]

So he just watched Fall. I. I don't watch a ton of, like, fluffy action movies. I'm now newly into him, but I just saw Fallout for the first time, and everyone just kept saying, like, where I have Henry Cavill? I'm like, that must be the hot guy.

[Colin]

Yeah. Oh, yeah.

[Bo]

Yeah, it is.

[Colin]

He's Superman. He's the Witcher. He's the. The Hawkeye in.

[Bo]

He's the guy that. His arms in Mission Impossible.

[Colin]

And then the pocket appears. You ever notice that?

[Bo]

Oh, yeah.

[Colin]

It's all up.

[Bo]

It's dope. Top three, no effects records.

[Colin]

Oh, great question.

[Mac Miller]

For me, I think number one is so long. And thanks for all the shoes, really. I think Punk and Drublic is unbelievable. Of course. And then what got me into them that I still think is a perfect record is the war on errorism.

[Colin]

Wow, Interesting picks, man.

[Mac Miller]

I do also think the next one, Wolves in Wolves Clothing, is damn near perfect.

[Bo]

Great title.

[Colin]

I'm punk and Drublic. Number one with a bullet. White Trash.

[Mac Miller]

Great. Yeah. And then there's some filler in there though.

[Colin]

It definitely.

[Mac Miller]

But Bangers are unbelievable.

[Colin]

But like, no Effects is a band that insists on filler because they're silly.

[Mac Miller]

I mean, you know, even this I like. I didn't. That's fine. The. I didn't love the very last record, which is a shame because they had to go out that way. But up until like the second to last record, I'd say there's three. Three to four great songs on every record.

[Colin]

Yeah. And then I would say I heard they suck. Life, I think rock.

[Mac Miller]

Oh, it's. Yeah, it's the. The decline. Fake out.

[Colin]

Yeah, it's awesome.

[Mac Miller]

Unbelievable. Yeah.

[Bo]

What are some of your favorite punk covers?

[Mac Miller]

Oh, like people covering punk bands, I think.

[Bo]

I think punk bands covering other stuff. Much. Much like you're. Talking Heads cover.

[Mac Miller]

Very good on the spot.

[Colin]

No, it's okay.

[Mac Miller]

Like, the one that I just immediately thought of is. I don't think is very good. So I remember the unseen covering. Painted Black by Rolling Stones.

[Bo]

I was gonna say. Was it Social D doing. Oh, Ring of Fire.

[Mac Miller]

That covers.

[Colin]

Yeah, that covers awesome, dude. The Unseen did Halloween by the Misfits.

[Mac Miller]

Oh. I mean, it was really Halloween.

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Colin]

Af. Dude, I'll do you one better. AFI Demonomania, I think is even better than the Halloween cover.

[Mac Miller]

I don't think I've even heard that.

[Colin]

It's. It sounds awesome.

[Bo]

Love the Talking Heads cover. Were there any other bands you considered?

[Colin]

Yeah.

[Mac Miller]

So in talking, like, how that song got picked was pretty funny because, I mean, we constantly. It's so fun playing other people's songs.

[Bo]

Oh, it's the best.

[Mac Miller]

And we recorded that well before we did the LA's covers. So, like, that was just a cool reason to get to do more of them.

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Mac Miller]

But you know, we all love a lot of like art punk, post punk, new wavy stuff, what have you. Love the Talking Heads. And to be honest, that's like not even close to my favorite song by them.

[Bo]

But it made for a really.

[Mac Miller]

We wanted to do like a cool like pop song and do a take on. A lot of people have covered that song but do a version that no one's done. Right. And when we were trying to figure it out, that song, when you take it to the, you know, the whole backbeat part, all the intro and everything, if you play it fast, we noticed it kind of sounds like fear. And we're like, oh, cool. You can. You can just play this faster and punk it up. Yeah. I don't know what else we would have done.

[Bo]

Somebody asked, what are all the bands you've done merch for? We talked about a lot, but one that just came back to mind was Halsey.

[Mac Miller]

I never did merch for Halsey.

[Bo]

But you were.

[Mac Miller]

Oh, you were doing bad Halsey. Okay.

[Bo]

But she was. She was, like, talking to you guys about.

[Mac Miller]

She. She. There was, like, a barbecue that she was, like, blowing up, but not quite as big as she got right. So, like, smaller amphitheaters, you know. Still, big show.

[Colin]

Yeah.

[Mac Miller]

But she set up, like, a barbecue one night after just to get to know all of us and Bad Sons and the crew and.

[Bo]

Which is really nice.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah, absolutely. So we're sitting. It was like the Bad Sons guys, Nikki and me, sitting at a picnic table with, like, her and a couple of her friends. Like, just friends that don't. I don't know if they were working. They just were with her on the tour, and we're all just talking about music and stuff. And then she, like, honed in, like, just looked at Nikki and I and was like. And just goes, well, you know, I'm from New Jersey hardcore. So, like, I don't know what else she said. She's just like, yeah, you know, I came out of New Jersey hardcore. And.

[Bo]

And it's like.

[Mac Miller]

Okay, you profiling us, but. Okay. I know I have camo shorts on, but I remember Nikki and I go to the bus later, and we're like, what did she mean by that?

[Colin]

Yeah, what does that mean?

[Mac Miller]

Is she into floor punch? Does she like the Mongoloids?

[Colin]

Yeah.

[Bo]

Didn't she, like, book shows for a while?

[Mac Miller]

No, she. I think she. She was like, a pop punker. And we were eventually, like, it had to be Census Fail.

[Colin]

Yeah. Lifetime saves the day.

[Bo]

Sure, sure.

[Mac Miller]

I mean, I love Lifetime Citizen. Yeah. And fine with Census.

[Bo]

Mary Kill Op. Ivy, Bad Religion, Boss Tones.

[Mac Miller]

I'm marrying Bad Religion because I will listen to 16 albums on repeat.

[Bo]

16, baby.

[Mac Miller]

I will boss Stones.

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Mac Miller]

Because, you know, you're just having a good time for.

[Bo]

But you're open to. To potential infectious diseases, though.

[Mac Miller]

But, you know, then you know, how good of a time.

[Bo]

Totally.

[Mac Miller]

And as much as it kills me, I'd kill off Ivy.

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Mac Miller]

In that situation, they just don't have enough music.

[Colin]

Yeah, true, true, true.

[Bo]

Best place to take a nap on tour.

[Mac Miller]

Not on a duffel bag of merch under the merch table on Warp tour.

[Bo]

Yeah, totally.

[Mac Miller]

I mean, if you're on a bigger tour, you're bunk for sure. You know, green room, couch.

[Bo]

Cool.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah.

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Mac Miller]

There's not much fun.

[Bo]

What is the craziest piece or worst piece of merch you sold for a band while doing a tour?

[Colin]

That's a good question.

[Bo]

Like something where you're like, this fucking thing. I hope nobody ever brings this again.

[Mac Miller]

Every time. Every time there's windbreakers or nylon shorts, it's just a pain because they don't. They slide off each other where you're counting them.

[Colin]

Oh, yeah.

[Bo]

Noted.

[Mac Miller]

I don't think I haven't personally had any crazy shit. I remember a friend's band, a friend was doing merch for. I'm not gonna. It doesn't. For the band Health. And they were selling butt plugs. Okay. And they had dip multiple sizes. And I was. I was laughing at the idea of, like, someone coming back. Like, hey, can I swap out?

[Bo]

Can I just try?

[Mac Miller]

Oh, I just tried this on. It doesn't fit.

[Colin]

No.

[Bo]

Can I do the large instead?

[Mac Miller]

Yeah.

[Colin]

Mac. It's funny to see you switch into Pro Guy anytime you pick up like you have. I've been around you. I can't actually remember where, but, like, just at shows when I'm. Usually when I'm over there where you'll pick up a stack or. Or at.

[Bo]

Are you gonna talk about his technique?

[Colin]

Yeah, when he just picks up a stack and he just. When he does this. The.

[Mac Miller]

Wish you could watch Pro Guy. I wish you could watch Taylor watch me do it.

[Bo]

He hates it.

[Mac Miller]

He's got. Here's video of it, right? It's good. I mean, it's. It's just the fastest way.

[Colin]

And I love it. I love.

[Bo]

I like. I like when you do it and then do it respectfully. I like when you're wrong. I like when you. I'm watching you do it. Do the thing. I swear to God, that's how you do it. And then you'll be like, there's no smalls. And the next day it'll be like, I found like eight smalls.

[Mac Miller]

Well, that stack was a dozen. But I like it.

[Bo]

You're the best.

[Mac Miller]

It's because I'm like half doing it, right When I'm doing it for you, I'm just grabbing and I guess there's no smells.

[Bo]

That's what we deserve. Favorite. Damn. This is a good question. Favorite song of each bad religion release from how could hell be any worse to Recipe for Hate. This is also going to challenge so 81 to 93.

[Mac Miller]

So to recipe for it. Let's do Strangers too off. How could hell Be Any Worse, Man. This is just off the top. If you're looking at the extended. Just because I don't want to give you an obvious answer. But on the extended version, there's a song, I think it was from the 7 inch, but it's called Yesterday. So it's like a. It's on. I guess it's on the 8085.

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Mac Miller]

Comp version. But that song is one of my favorite Bad Religion songs. I honestly, I think. How Could I Be Any Worse Is good.

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Mac Miller]

But there's. They get way.

[Bo]

It's like kill them all.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah. And most other bands of the same era are doing what they're doing slightly better at the time.

[Colin]

Yeah.

[Mac Miller]

Listen to Adolescence. But Suffer, man, are we gonna blow this? No, it's no Control before. No, no.

[Bo]

Suffer.

[Mac Miller]

I'd say off Suffer give you nothing. One of the. I mean, like, we basically ripped off the skank part in that song.

[Colin]

Oh, speaking of, I discovered an unintentional riff today that caused that cosmic joke. Yanked a little bit.

[Mac Miller]

He texted me just like, what is that part? In five Years later, I was like, the.

[Colin]

At the end of five Years later, they play a riff once and he goes.

[Mac Miller]

It's in the moshi part. There's like the climb.

[Bo]

Melodic climb.

[Colin]

That's poison idea.

[Mac Miller]

But it's funny cuz he's like, did you do that? And like. Dude, I. Yeah, I write the guitar.

[Bo]

Right?

[Mac Miller]

Yeah. Morgan. Morgan's heard that in passing. Maybe twice.

[Bo]

That's just a nice progression.

[Colin]

What I said was to. To unintentionally nod at an influence is even cooler because it means you're tapped.

[Mac Miller]

You're.

[Colin]

You're in there.

[Mac Miller]

No, I'm not. I. Dude, there's. There's much more intentional.

[Colin]

So anyway, back.

[Bo]

Control.

[Mac Miller]

No control. I want to conquer the world.

[Colin]

Yeah.

[Mac Miller]

One of the best.

[Bo]

Good songs.

[Colin]

Yeah, that's pretty good. It's a pretty good one.

[Bo]

What would be next? Yeah, I think so.

[Mac Miller]

Or against the Grand General. I can't remember when. Again. Screen comes in.

[Bo]

I think it's after 90. 90. Because generator is what, 92. This is so not interesting.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah, well, against faith alone. Damn. It's perfect. Generator. Two babies in the dark. Maybe. There's so many good songs on this. Maybe. Yeah.

[Bo]

Recipe.

[Mac Miller]

Wait. Oh, it was anesthesia. Was that on. That's on. Against the.

[Bo]

On against the ground. There's a song called Anesthesia.

[Mac Miller]

It was like. Oh. What? They keep talking about this person. Anna.

[Bo]

Nikki's wife or Nikki's. Yeah, Nikki's fiance. Anna. Brittany. Was like, dude, that should be her nickname. That's stupid. Recipe.

[Mac Miller]

Recipe rate.

[Bo]

Dude. Holy.

[Mac Miller]

I mean, I. On any given week, what is my favorite bad religion record can change. And I think recipe for eight is my favorite right now.

[Bo]

All right. Stranger than fiction.

[Mac Miller]

What?

[Bo]

Better off dead.

[Mac Miller]

Oh, my poor friend me.

[Bo]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mac Miller]

You know, Better off dead.

[Bo]

Better off dead. I'll cry right now. It's beautiful. All right.

[Mac Miller]

God damn.

[Bo]

What do we got? As a skilled merchman, favorite shirt you've ever sold. What's your favorite? Let's make this last the last question. What's your favorite T shirt of all time?

[Mac Miller]

My favorite T shirt of all time?

[Bo]

Yeah. As a merch expert, like, whether you.

[Colin]

Have it or not, what's a grail item that's just like, damn.

[Mac Miller]

One shirt that I really, really, really want and I will never pay 600 for is the. The bad brains quickness tour or is the quick. Yeah. The Quickness store shirt, the one with like the green like.

[Colin]

Yeah.

[Mac Miller]

Like outline shape from the front. My favorite ones I have are the lemon heads look after yourself shirt and the battery batter legend generator Euro torch.

[Bo]

Oh, yeah.

[Colin]

Very nice.

[Mac Miller]

Which I couldn't believe I got one of.

[Bo]

Good job.

[Mac Miller]

I did so good by spending money.

[Bo]

Yeah, I say that every day.

[Mac Miller]

That's true.

[Bo]

What a beautiful conversation. This could have gone three, four more hours. What are some imparting words you want to leave the people with? They're out here saying circle pits are bad. They're out here saying fast parts.

[Mac Miller]

I'm not here saying push pits are good.

[Bo]

So all pits are good.

[Colin]

Dude. All. All pits are good. I like that.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah.

[Bo]

As long as you're pitting. Unless you're rowing.

[Colin]

Yeah. That's not. That's not pitting.

[Mac Miller]

You're my friend that's sitting in.

[Colin]

That's. Look at me, look at me, look at me.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah, yeah. Army crawl across the front. I think you, when you brought that up forever ago, it was like, that's where I spit.

[Bo]

Yeah, that's nasty.

[Colin]

That's disgusting.

[Bo]

But I'm like, you know, get up and dive. And I'm like, that was.

[Colin]

That was kind of cool.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Just any attentiony. Obviously there's a certain amount. Like if you're doing a gainer, you're going to get some attention.

[Bo]

Sick.

[Colin]

And like. And like, let's not be like if you're spin kicking and you're the guy beating ass. If you're pit boss, a certain amount of that too, but it's different.

[Bo]

You're doing it really well, even the band is like, that's awesome.

[Mac Miller]

If there's no good outcome to what you're doing and it's strictly for attention, get to the back of the room and go make a Tik Tok you.

[Colin]

There you go.

[Bo]

I mean, they. They intend to beautiful.

[Mac Miller]

I'm not. Are they on Tik Tok? I'm not on Tik Tok.

[Colin]

Probably.

[Mac Miller]

I got to get on TikTok.

[Bo]

Yeah, you do, man. I got stuff to send you. Trust me. I would love to see your. Your algorithm. Mac put me onto a thing called. Called Dead Guy Hub.

[Mac Miller]

You gotta get on at Dead Guy Hub.

[Colin]

What is that?

[Mac Miller]

If you want you. You will find out that I didn't know that if you touch an electrical wire the right way, it'll turn your head into a candle.

[Colin]

Oh, my God.

[Bo]

It's people dying, dude. He's looking at legit, like, tragedies.

[Mac Miller]

And I'm. I. I don't ask for it. It's just there.

[Bo]

But that's your feed. And you stop and watch them every time.

[Mac Miller]

There's a certain friend that has put this into my feed by texting me.

[Bo]

And he's in a huge bash.

[Mac Miller]

Just like, dude.

[Colin]

Damn. I don't.

[Bo]

So. So Dead Guy. I think Dead Guy have. Is gone, right?

[Mac Miller]

Yeah. They've been to platforms.

[Colin]

Damn.

[Mac Miller]

There's. There's always something new. I just. There was a recent one that was like. Oh, man. They're always the funniest names where it's like, at. Epically gone. At.

[Bo]

They'll never be that Guy Hub, though.

[Mac Miller]

Dead Guy Hub is.

[Bo]

I was getting that Guy Hub for a while.

[Mac Miller]

You just buy that domain?

[Bo]

Yeah.

[Colin]

Sick.

[Bo]

If you're listening, I don't like it.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah. I didn't ask for it, but it's there, and I can't look away.

[Bo]

Yeah. And they're dead.

[Mac Miller]

They. Sure. I hope they are, to be honest.

[Bo]

All right. That's a great way to end this episode. The Cosmic Joke Force Perspective is out now on Hard Lore Records. Surely the. The rarest color is gone by now or. Or almost gone. Check the site. You never know.

[Colin]

Never know.

[Bo]

But, you know, first presses is cruising along. Pick it up. We love working with them. We love Mac. We love Cosmic Joke.

[Mac Miller]

We love Hard Lore. Thank you for having me.

[Bo]

Thanks for being here.

[Mac Miller]

Love you guys. I'll see you on Fortnite in 20 minutes.

[Colin]

I'll see you in two days.

[Mac Miller]

Last week.

[Colin]

Last week, in two days.

[Mac Miller]

Yeah.

[Bo]

All right, Cosmic Joke.

[Mac Miller]

Thank you, guys.

[Bo]

Hard Lore Records forever.

[Colin]

Bye.