Nancy Barile: The Godmother of Straight Edge, Award-Winning Author, Remembering Al Barile

Summary

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HardLore Podcast Episode Summary

Episode Title: Nancy Barile: The Godmother of Straight Edge, Award-Winning Author, Remembering Al Barile
Date: November 6, 2025
Hosts: Colin Young & Bo Lueders
Guest: Nancy Barile
Podcast: HardLore (Knotfest)

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Overview

This deeply engaging episode pays tribute to Nancy Barile—hardcore punk lifer, “Godmother of Straight Edge,” and award-winning author of I'm Not Holding Your Coat—and to her late husband, Al Barile, frontman of SSD. The conversation travels from Nancy’s formative years in Philly punk through her role in the Boston scene, to her pioneering teaching career. The episode balances hilarious stories, personal reflections, and gripping punk history, while honoring Al’s impact and legacy.

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Key Topics & Discussion Highlights

1. Remembering Al Barile & The Origins of Love

• First Impressions:
  • Nancy recounts Al’s intimidating exterior: “A lot of people don't like Al when they first meet him because he's like kind of scary looking...” (00:00)
• Meeting Story:
  • Legendary quote on quitting smoking for Al:
    • Al: "Do you smoke?"
    • Nancy: "Not anymore." (00:14)
  • Bo: "You could put that in a movie and people would think it was like two on the nose. That is one of the most incredibly witty things you could have done." (00:27)
• True Love: Colin remarks, “It’s true love.” (00:35)

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2. Nancy’s Philly Punk Roots

• Early Influences:
  • Marine dad, Catholic school upbringing, and a hunger for “dangerous” music (03:55–07:41)
  • First punk show: Iggy Pop with Blondie opening, Bowie on keys—"That was really the door that led me right into punk." (04:44)
  • Embraced as “Blondie” in the scene: “If you were a girl with blonde hair in the punk scene back then, you wanted to be Debbie Harry.” (05:26)
• Pivotal Shows:
  • Ramones at University of Pennsylvania: “I was just all in after that.” (05:55–06:11)
  • Euphoric sense of community and access in punk: “Being at a show where somebody came out and talked to you, I was like starstruck, you know, that was so cool to me.” (29:21)
• Early Rebellion and Musical Attraction:
  • Attraction to darker music: “I definitely gravitate towards the harder, darker side of music from a really young age...” (07:00)

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3. From Punk Shows to Punk Teaching

• Tattoo Lore:
  • First tattoo: anarchy A, “fight back” added later; heavy love for Discharge—"I legit wore that record out." (08:21–09:09)
  • Early 80s tattoo story: scarring, cover-up tales (“I used to tell people I got bit by a shark.”) (10:31)
• Teaching Through Punk:
  • “In my classroom, punk rock lives.” (18:22, 18:30)
  • New book: Adventures of a Punk Rock Teacher (18:48)
  • Connection with marginalized students: punk as a bridge for empathy, community building, and activism: “I just kind of used what I learned through punk rock to help reach these kids. And it worked, you know, to a certain extent...” (18:48-21:43)
  • DIY ethos in underfunded schools: “That was all punk rock... If I didn’t have that experience, I don’t think I would have made it.” (19:56)
• Continued Relationship with Former Students:
  • “The people that come and visit me here at my apartment are all former students.” (21:59)

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4. Punk, Politics, and Social Media

• Values:
  • Lifelong anti-fascism, anti-racism, activism, and standing up against the “old punk rockers out there, like, you know, touting MAGA.” (23:00)
  • “How is it possible? I don’t know, but it really drives me crazy.” (23:12)
• Resilience Around Mansplaining and Trolls:
  • Describes rampant mansplaining in online punk spaces, condescension, and the impetus to write her book: “I figured, you know what? I'll write this book and tell my story, and then you can come at me. I don't give a shit.” (63:22)

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5. Anecdotes from the Scene

• McDonald's as Teenage HQ:
  • “Everything happened at my McDonald’s... If there was a fight, it happened at my McDonald’s.” (14:10)
• Catholic School & Tommy:
  • Nun-teacher introduced class to Tommy by The Who. “It was the first time anything ever, like, connected with me about religion... and it took The Who's Tommy to do it, I guess.” (16:15)

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6. Women in Early Hardcore

• Coat-Holding Myth:
  • Nancy dispels myth that early scene women “held coats”: “That was not my experience at all... Women are up front. We're right up front. We're doing, like, we're making shit happen.” (62:36)
  • Motivated by Facebook-era mansplaining, not lived reality: “I never heard this holding my coat thing till Facebook.” (63:17)

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7. Managing Bands & Promoting Shows

• Managing Sadistic Exploits:
  • Leading Philly’s mid-‘80s all-ages shows (34:39)
  • “Wanted to bring all-ages shows to the kids... There was nothing like that.” (34:42)
• Hardcore Tribe Gatherings & Famous Shows:
  • The epic Buff Hall show: “The best hardcore show I’ve ever, ever seen in my life... one of the top five of all time, in existence.” (81:09–81:11)
  • Incidents, danger, and DIY camaraderie: managing violence, getting support from the Ghetto Riders, and post-show shenanigans. (76:12–83:42)

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8. Inter-Scene Politics, Straight Edge & Cultural Shifts

• On 'Straight Edge':
  • Initial skepticism (DC scene), eventual embrace in Boston: “Wasn't a requirement for me to be straight edge when I met Al...” (49:43)
  • Al’s lifelong (until medical necessity) commitment. Important discussion about pain, medication, and authenticity: (51:31–54:08)
• Change in Hardcore:
  • Nancy “aged out” in 1985 as the scene became more “aggro and stupid,” but loves seeing new bands like Turnstile evoke “that energy since 1982.” (84:00–86:18)
  • On Judge’s lyric about Boston-New York tension: “As far as we were concerned, New York was a second home.” (41:38)
• Bad Brains Love and Moral Reckoning:
  • “I loved the Bad Brains... but then the homophobic, misogynistic lyrics... That was the first time I had to navigate something like that as a young person.” (65:35–67:56)
• Enduring Impact:
  • Al was most proud of “emails from people that... said, you saved my life, or Straight Edge saved my life...” (94:57)

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9. Past, Present, and Legacy

• On Al:
  • “His kindness and warmth to generations that came after... impacted us.” (104:48)
  • Nancy shares stories of humor, devotion, and enduring connection—including after Al’s passing:
    • “I got some unbelievable signs that are indisputable...” (108:24)
    • The “jacked mourning dove” visiting her as a sign from Al. (110:14–111:50)
• Community & Healing:
  • “The punk rock community is so freaking good to me... I would have jumped in the ocean if not for my friends.” (115:35)
• Philly’s Place in Punk Lore:
  • Nancy pushed for Philly’s due credit: “I thought they did Philly kind of dirty, you know, in their [American Hardcore documentary]... My book exists now.” (113:43-114:09)
• Still Teaching, Still Punk:
  • “I’m not holding your coat” spirit continues in band management, teaching, storytelling, and inspiring the next wave.

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Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• On Love:
  • “Do you smoke?”
    “Not anymore.”
    (Al & Nancy, 00:14)
• On Punk’s Energy:
  • “I just got goosebumps... That’s how I know that something’s good.”
    (Nancy, 08:02)
• On Punk Teaching:
  • “In my classroom, punk rock lives.”
    (Colin quoting Nancy, 18:22)
• On Punk Values:
  • “You and Al are, and were, very kind of famously liberal people. A lifetime of subscribing to just a little bit anti-fascist, anti-racist, anti-homophobic ideals...”
    (Colin, 23:00)
• On Women in Hardcore:
  • “Women are up front... That was not my experience at all.”
    (Nancy, 62:36)
• On Hardcore’s Impact:
  • “Al realized this is a cultural phenomenon that’ll live forever. And that made him really proud.”
    (Nancy, 94:01)
  • “What made Al proudest was emails from people that said, you saved my life, or Straight Edge saved my life...”
    (Nancy, 94:57)
• On Legacy, Love, and Signs:
  • “There’s nobody—there was just nobody like him.”
    (Nancy, 106:36)
  • “If you’re Al, look at me. And it turned around and looked me right in the eye. I took a picture of it.” (Describing the mourning dove)
    (Nancy, 110:28)
• On Community:
  • “The punk rock community is so freaking good to me... All my friends, almost all my friends, except a handful, are punk rock people.”
    (Nancy, 115:35)

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Timestamps for Essential Segments

• Nancy’s Entry to Punk: 03:55–07:41
• Iggy Pop Show & Punk Epiphany: 04:44–05:19
• First Tattoo & Discharge: 08:18–09:09
• Managing Bands/Promoting Shows: 34:39–41:41
• Buff Hall & “Gathering of the Tribes”: 75:28–83:42
• Hardcore’s Transformation – 1985 & On: 83:43–86:18
• Women in the Scene / Debunking Coat-Holding: 62:36–63:22
• Bad Brains & Navigating Morality: 65:01–67:56
• Al's Health, Straight Edge Nuance: 51:31–54:08
• Legacy, Grief, and Mourning Dove Story: 108:24–111:50

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Tone and Style

The conversation is intimate, direct, passionate, and full of street-level humor and “real talk”—it stays true to the DIY punk ethos Nancy and Al embodied. Nancy’s voice is warm, wise, and defiant, blending wit (“I used to tell people I got bit by a shark”) with candid vulnerability about loss and legacy.

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Further Reading & Listening

• I’m Not Holding Your Coat (Barile’s book)
• SSD reissues (Trust Records)
• Upcoming: Adventures of a Punk Rock Teacher

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Final Word

This episode is a must-listen for anyone passionate about punk history, social change, and the power of community. It vividly honors Nancy Barile’s incredible story—and ensures that Al Barile’s legacy, both musical and human, continues to inspire.

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Transcript

[Nancy Burrell]

A lot of people don't like Al when they first meet him because he's like kind of scary looking, you know. I know my family was like, this is the guy you're going to marry, you know. But then once you get to know Al, like, who's more lovable, you know, than Al and funny and, you know.

[Beau]

You bring me to one of my most favorite quotes I've read. When Al and you met face to face, you were smoking and he said, do you smoke? And you went, not anymore.

[Nancy Burrell]

Anymore, that is.

[Beau]

You could put that in a movie and people would think it was like two on the nose. That is one of the most incredibly witty things you could have done.

[Colin]

It's true love. Hello, welcome. It's hard lore time. How you doing, Beau?

[Beau]

I'm doing so good. I'm very excited for today's episode.

[Colin]

This is a big day. I've wanted to do this. We've wanted to do this for a couple years now, whether Nancy knows it or not. But we are honored today to be joined by award winning author of I'm not holding youg Coat OG Punk Rocker. Whether she knows it or not, she's the godmother of Straightedge and the wife of the late, great Al Burrell of ssd, Nancy Burrill.

[Nancy Burrell]

Thanks. Thanks for having me.

[Colin]

They're screaming at home. How are you?

[Nancy Burrell]

Good, thanks. Yeah, you know, I'm doing okay. Holding up okay.

[Beau]

Okay, great.

[Colin]

All things considered.

[Beau]

You saw Hocus Pocus today?

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah. So my building, you know, we moved over here. Well, we were supposed to move over here to be closer to Dana Farber for Al's cancer treatment in this, you know, kind of bougie apartment building. And they' always having these special events, you know, where they make all this food and they, you know, we watch a football game or we, you know, play games or we're learning to cook or something. And so like I take full advantage of everything, so. And I have fun and I met. I met a lot of people, a lot of really cool people. I met a kid that likes punk and we've been going to shows together and you know, I'm like, you know, do your friends know you're. He's 35 and I'm like, do your friends know you're hanging out with a 66 year old?

[Colin]

Well, if they knew the exploits of that 66 year old, they'd be kissing his feet.

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah, I took him to turn star with backstage passes and we watched it from the stage. So he had a great time, I think.

[Beau]

I love to Hear that is amazing.

[Colin]

It's interesting that I can hear both the Philly and the Boston.

[Nancy Burrell]

You know, I managed. I managed to get the worst of both. You know, a hybrid. You know, it's awful. I can't stand when these come out. I can never listen to them because my accent is so. It's like the worst from both accents.

[Colin]

No Europeans are gonna be studying this for some movie later, figuring out how do I merge these two insane geographic regions. Until I opened your book, I always in my mind, associated with you, with Boston. I didn't know how much of your punk history was Philly. You were such a Philly chick.

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah, that was my thing. And, you know, when that book came out, everyone's, you know, some people were like, oh, you know, it's about Boston. Or, you know, some, you know, dudes born in the 90s were like, oh, you're riding the coattails of your husband. I'm like, this is my story. You know, my book ends when I moved to Boston.

[Colin]

So he don't come in till chapter 12.

[Nancy Burrell]

Right? Exactly. Exactly.

[Colin]

So how does this young Catholic high school girl in Philly discover punk in its. In its earliest incarnation?

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah, so, I mean, my dad was a Marine, and I went to Catholic school, so I was, like, definitely looking for something, and that was live music. So when I was about 15, a sophomore in high school, I had a boyfriend who was a senior and had a car, and we started going to concerts, and I was just so hooked on live music. I just love live music. And I would go see, you know, anybody. I was still kind of honing my taste and figuring out out who I liked. So, you know, there was some Blue Oyster Cold in there and some man for Man's Earth Band, you know. But by 1976, 1977, I think I would say seeing Iggy Pop with Blondie opening was really the door that led me right into punk.

[Colin]

And then David Bowie on keys.

[Nancy Burrell]

Right, and David Bowie on keys. That's why I went. Because, you know, Bowie was on keys. And I had. I had bought the Idiot. And I thought it was, like a really creepy cool sound and record. It was different than anything else I ever listened to. And so we had front row seats. And it was.

[Colin]

That was seated.

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was at the Tower Theater. Yeah, it was at the Tower Theater. So we had front row seats. I got a smooch from Iggy, which I was all excited about, because I was like, 16, you know, and it was. And.

[Colin]

And then you mentioned that everybody, like so many of Your peers refer to you as Blondie.

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah, well, that's what. Yeah. And that was, you know, I mean, let's face it, if you were a girl with blonde hair in the punk scene back then, you wanted to be dead. I mean, who wouldn't want to be Debbie Harry?

[Colin]

I want to be Debbie Harris.

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah, exactly. You know, and so that was a huge compliment to me. And then when I moved to Philadelphia when I was 19, and, you know, you're walking around and everything, like, that's what guys would roll down the window and be like, hey, Blondie. That was the thing. And I, you know, I had no problem with that.

[Colin]

You know, once you see Debbie Harry.

[Nancy Burrell]

It'S like, yeah, yeah, that's fine if you want to. You know, that's great. That's the highest compliment to me. And so it wasn't long after seeing Iggy that I saw the Ramones at University of Pennsylvania. And then, you know, I was just all in after that.

[Colin]

And so I have some. I want to know more details about that show a little later. I've got it kind of chronological here, but I really. There's an anecdote, you said that I really liked about hearing House of the Rising Sun.

[Nancy Burrell]

Oh, yeah. When I was a little kid. Right.

[Colin]

And then having this feeling in the back of your mind of wanting something more dangerous, like hearing that and being like, I shouldn't be hearing this. What's more dangerous out there? And why. Why do I want it? Why am I attracted to it?

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah. Like, I remember that record came out when I was five years old, and I just loved it. I thought it was great. But back then, like, if you didn't have the 45, you could only hear it on the radio. So, you know, we would drive around, you know, my mother, you know, in the car, and whenever that song came on, she always ch. Changed it. So I knew that there was something a little dark and a little, you know, and then we always watched Ed Sullivan on. On Sunday nights. And, you know, I remember seeing the Beatles. And, you know, I like the Beatles. I had, you know, some of their 45s. But when the Stones came on Ed Sullivan, I knew right away there's something a little more dangerous, a little sensual about that, you know, And I was like, you know, a little kid. But I knew. I definitely knew. And so I. I definitely gravit towards the harder, darker side of music from a. From a really young age. And I'm sure that was, you know, the rebellion because of my dad and. And Catholic school and all. The oppression.

[Beau]

And this was. This was the animals, right?

[Nancy Burrell]

Yes, yes, yes.

[Colin]

We're big champions of the animals.

[Nancy Burrell]

Oh, my God. I still, like, you know, search them up on YouTube and watch, you know, because you. You don't expect that voice.

[Beau]

Yeah.

[Nancy Burrell]

To come out of that man. You know, like this.

[Colin]

Sex.

[Beau]

Why does he look like that?

[Nancy Burrell]

You know, it's just. Yeah, he just. You know, he looks like a kid, and, you know, he's got this amazing voice, and it just. Oh. I mean, I always got, like, a shiver response to music, and that's how I know that, you know, that something's good, because I just get goosebumps.

[Colin]

And so tell me about your first tattoo in 1981.

[Nancy Burrell]

Oh, my gosh. So, you know, tattoos. You know, the. Boy, the guys that I hung around with wanted tattoos, and so I went with them a couple of times, and you know how it is. You go with somebody, then you want one too, right?

[Beau]

Sitting in a tattoo shop, not getting tattooed is one of the worst things.

[Nancy Burrell]

Exactly, exactly. And so my. So first I got an anarchy A on my show because, like, that was the punk rock thing to do. You know, I was credited that to.

[Colin]

To being a big discharge.

[Nancy Burrell]

Yes. Well, then. Then I went back and I got Fight back written around it. So those were two. Those are two separate things because I freaking love discharge.

[Colin]

And that's like a new band.

[Nancy Burrell]

They were a new band at the time, and they were amazing. Boy. I mean, I legit wore that record out. Like, I had to buy another copy. Oh, wow. Because I loved it so much. And so. Yeah. So then I had fight back on it. And then one of my friends, like, got my initial on his arm, so like, I got, like, a little heart or something, you know, And. And no girls had tattoos back then unless you were kind of. Of a certain bikery kind of thing. So, you know, my. My mother was pissed when she got. I remember her, like, you know, taking a tissue out of her purse and, you know, wetting it and trying to wash it off. She was like, that better not be real. That better not be real. You know, so. And. And I had it for, you know, and Al.

[Beau]

Al.

[Nancy Burrell]

Ha. Tattoos, too. You know, he was. You know, he almost got a Van Halen tattoo one time, but he can't.

[Colin]

Cover up them guns.

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah. Yeah. So he did. You know, he didn't like tattoos, and so maybe, like, 1986 or so, I just got sick of it. It was, like, wearing the same T shirt all the time, so I wanted to get it taken off. And at the Time like they didn't have laser surgery or anything, so they had to cut it out. And then I had my arm in this thing where, you know, like. And then they would, you know, wind it down till my skin grew back.

[Beau]

Oh my gosh.

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah. And I had this big scar and you know, I used to tell people.

[Colin]

You still like discharge?

[Nancy Burrell]

Yes, I love discharge. Yeah, yeah. And so, you know, and the scar eventually, you know, kind of faded away. But I used to tell people that I get bit by a shark and make up stories all the time to.

[Colin]

Say, well, the truth is out there now. I'm sorry.

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah, so that's. And it's funny. So when the Polish version of my book came out, they put that tattoo on the COVID Really, you know, a picture of it that Gail Rush had taken. And you know, they had, you know, our deal was they could pick what they wanted.

[Colin]

So.

[Nancy Burrell]

Tattoo is out there. Oh, so embarrassing. But what are you gonna, you know, I know people that, you know, they have like, I don't know, 40 year old kids from their mistakes when they were 16 or. Yeah, a tattoo is probably a photo of a tattoo. Yeah, yeah. So it's not, you know, I, you know, I don't regret it. You.

[Beau]

But speaking of 40 year old mistake, my mother also had a similar story as you with House of the Rising sun, with Riders on the Storm.

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah, that was another one. I remember when that came out, that had a very distinct vibe, you know, like, you know, when you get those chills when you hear a song for the first time, there's a couple of them, you know, cat people. David Bowie, you know, Heroes. David Bowie is like that. Alice Cooper Elected was like that with me. You know, there's a bunch of songs like when I just heard him, I just got. Oh know, like they just, I don't know, man. Music is just so powerful for me and to this day, done talking about it.

[Beau]

Colin said those exact words about 24 hours ago.

[Nancy Burrell]

Oh, wow, that's awesome.

[Beau]

So when you, you, you had this feeling. How did you find more? You saw the Ramones, you knew you were in where does the Journey Continue?

[Nancy Burrell]

And so then, you know, back then we would buy the magazines and so that was Cream and Circus and Hip Parade or and those, you know. And I would read and you know, Patti Smith, you know, now if I wr. Patti Smith in a punk group, people like, she's not punk rock. You know, And I'm like, she was the punk is shit out there, man. When I was a kid, you know, there was nobody more Punk than Patty, you know. And I love Patty. I love Patty so much that I met her mother at a show and we became pen pals and used to write, like, weekly to each other. Yeah, she was really cool. And so I would. I discovered a lot of bands through. Through the magazine. Then I went to school in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, which was like Dead Man's Land. Like, there was just nothing out there. There were. I mean, if there was live music, I didn't know where it was. And, you know, it was the disco era and, you know, not gonna lie. Love my disco cool, you know, And I love. Yeah, and I love to dance and stuff. So, you know, I had a fake, you know, back then, your IDs didn't have your picture on it. I had, like, some. I worked at McDonald's and somebody left a New Jersey ID in there. And so, you know, I snatched it up. And as long as you knew your birth date and your bir could get anywhere. So, you know, I would go disco dance and stuff. And, you know, I love my Sylvester and Sherilyn and Evelyn, Champagne king and stuff. You know, like that. I still like all that stuff, you know, when I go see a lot.

[Colin]

Of McDonald's talk in your book, well, you know, is this the place to be or what?

[Nancy Burrell]

In my, you know, I used to tell my students, you know, my McDonald's was like Arnold's, which, of course, they don't know that reference, because they don't. You know, they only see Happy Days if they watch reruns.

[Beau]

So.

[Nancy Burrell]

But if there was a fight, it happened at my McDonald's. If there was, like, a hookup, it would happen at my McDonald's. If there was, you know, everything happened at my McDonald's, and I work there, so, you know, I got to experience it all. And, you know, I. Back then, you know, you just had a cash register. There were no cameras or anything, so all my friends, my family, everybody ate for free.

[Beau]

Nancy, have you ever been to the McDonald's across the street from the Middle east in Cambridge?

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah, maybe years ago, I probably was. Sure.

[Beau]

It's a good one.

[Colin]

It's still like that.

[Nancy Burrell]

A lot happening there. Yeah, I mean, it was. You know, my McDonald's was crazy there. We used to. I mean, one time somebody set the back of the store on fire. And, you know, somebody said, the back of your store is on fire. You know, so I go running out the back door and my singe, my eyelashes, my eyebrows, every. My hair.

[Beau]

Oh, my God.

[Nancy Burrell]

And. But they did it because somebody, while we were all doing that. Somebody came in and robbed us. You know, it was a smart. You know, it was a smart little ploy. I remember that was my. That was one of my first experiences with the police because we all had to go down and, you know, take, like, lie detector test, whether, you know, we were part of it and everything. I remember my mom. My mom went with me, and they were like, did you take the money, Nancy?

[Beau]

I was like, no. Wow.

[Colin]

There's something so Forrest Gumpian about you, Nancy.

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah. You know, it's so funny. One of my friends from Harrisburg, from my very first college, I hadn't seen her in 36 years, and she came up and visited me for four days this past weekend, and she. And I was telling her different stories and stuff, and she was like, you're like the Forrest Gump of just right place at the right time a lot of times.

[Colin]

Here's something cool that I think Beau's gonna appreciate. So in Catholic school, you have. There's a sister who's there for half a year who really broadened your mind.

[Nancy Burrell]

Oh, that. That was in high school. Yeah.

[Colin]

And one of the things that was really effective was her showing you Tommy by the hoop.

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah. Imagine that. Right. So, you know, I'm in Catholic school from first to eighth grade, and I get this nun in ninth grade, and she was so cool. She taught us Psycho, the Exorcist, and Tommy. And she used that all as a platform to teach us about religion and honest to God, it was like, the first time anything ever, like, connected with me about religion, you know, But. And it took the who's Tommy to do it, I guess.

[Beau]

Yeah. Especially the Christ figure that Roger Daltrey plays by the end. And all the. The sunglasses, earplugs, mouth plug thing, all that stuff, for sure. That when I brought up my mom earlier and why Colin mentioned that I would appreciate that is my mom is obsessed with the who. That's like her band. So my whole life they've been kind of that figure for me. And I love Tommy, and I don't. You know, I. I have a very secular outlook on life as well. And I was kind of raised. And I didn't go to a Catholic school or anything like that, like you, but I was raised in a similar kind of upbringing with my dad, and. And I wonder if that connected to me in the same way when I was like.

[Nancy Burrell]

Probably did.

[Beau]

This is a cult. This is Tommy. This is the same thing, you know, Tommy's holiday camp.

[Nancy Burrell]

You know, right now, my new apartment is right across the street from Fenway park. And the school resource officer at my high school where I taught. I'm retired now. But he was like, yeah, he was. He was a punk rock kid, you know, and there wasn't a lot of punk rock kids in my school. Most of my kids like hip hop or world music. But Joe Singer, he really, you know, he liked punk and hardcore. And he called me up the day of the who played Fenway, and he's like, that's right. Do you know anybody that would want to go to, you know, I was like, oh, hell yeah. Me, right here. Yeah. So I called my, you know, one of my girlfriends. I was like, you want to go see the who? And she was like, hell, yeah. And so we went and, like, we had great seats and we just had the best time. And, you know, they were, you know, not super high energy, but I still, you know, I still really enjoyed it. They were my brother's favorite band growing up. So there you go.

[Beau]

There you go.

[Colin]

You know, speaking of teaching, you said, I love this very simple quote in my classroom, punk rock lives.

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah, it really does.

[Colin]

And can you tell me about connecting with students? I mean, I'm sure that was. It was reluctant at first, but over time, realizing that's it's such a huge avenue to relate to these kids who maybe don't have. Have many, many adults in their life who understand this aspect of their life.

[Beau]

Right.

[Nancy Burrell]

And that's actually my next book that'll come out next year. It's Adventures of a Punk Rock Teacher, and it's about how I used punk rock to reach my kids because I didn't look like my students. And I was much older than, you know, when I started teaching. I was 37. I wasn't, like, right out of college, you know, so my first year, I had a lot of Cambodian gang members in my class. Kids that moved, their families came over. They settled mostly in Long beach, and then they came over to Massachusetts and into my gateway community. And they weren't exactly welcomed by the people that lived here at that time. Their houses were burned down and their property was damaged. And so they formed gangs for protection. And so, you know, I really didn't know too much about gangs. My gang experience was, you know, west side Story and Dangerous Minds and Getting the Ghetto Right to help us out in Buff hall in Cambridge. Great chapters. Yeah. Yeah. And so, you know, I certainly couldn't relate to their experiences with racism and that kind of marginalization. But as a teenager who often felt like other and, you know, not really Respected by the community and everything. I just kind of tapped into that with those kids. And, you know, I just. I. It was insane. I lost a student my first year to gun violence, and I really didn't know what I was doing. I had zero cultural competency. They didn't really teach that in school, but the kids helped me. You know, the kids taught me as much as I taught them, and that was, you know, really valuable. And so I just kind of used what I learned through punk rock to help reach these kids. And it worked, you know, to a certain extent. And certainly, you know, the whole dual it yourself attitude that, you know, you need for punk rock was so valuable to me as a teacher because I. I taught in an economically disadvantaged school. So if I wanted anything other than the bare bones, you know, curriculum or experience, I had to get it myself. So, like, I took my kids to New York for, you know, all expense paid, three times. I used to bring in guest speakers, I got extra books, and that was all punk rock. Yeah. You know, trying to get that stuff. And. And so it really helped me a lot. If I didn't have that experience, I don't. I don't think I would have made it. And it helped me. You know, I like to think that maybe I helped some kids, you know, go down a different path, be, you know, by showing them, like, there's other ways to be successful. And, you know, part of that. Part of the book is sad, but sort of part of it is triumphant as well.

[Beau]

So, you know, I just. Just like your teacher who. Who you had. Who showed you Psycho Exorcist Tommy. Just like, I. I've related experiences like that. I guarantee you, you have touched students who have been looking for exactly your touch in that way. There's no doubt in my mind.

[Nancy Burrell]

It's funny. The. The people that come and visit me here at my apartment are all former students, you know. That's beautiful.

[Beau]

Yeah.

[Nancy Burrell]

And I gotta call, you know, like, hey, bro, we're at the Red Sox game. You know, are you home? We're gonna come over and visit you, you know.

[Colin]

You know, I don't have teacher.

[Nancy Burrell]

No, no.

[Colin]

I had some I like, but I'm not calling them.

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah, yeah. No, my kids, you know, we. You know, we were. They were. You know, they're great and they're fun and they're funny and, you know, they. They helped me get through it. And when Al passed away, they were just unbelievable to me. They would, you know, they do anything for me and those gang kids. To this day, if I Called them up and I said, I need $20,000 and a ride to Florida. They would be there. They'd say, what time you want me to pick you up? You know, they would be. They were so good to me, you know, to this day, they're so good to me.

[Colin]

Incredible. Yeah, you and Al are. And we're very kind of famously liberal people.

[Nancy Burrell]

Yes.

[Colin]

A lifetime of subscribing to just a little bit anti fascist, anti racist, anti homophobic ideals which very much align with the entire idea of punk to me. And I know to you, Nancy.

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah. And it just blows my mind when I see these, you know, old punk rockers out there, like, you know, tout and maga and all this nonsense. And I just like, how is it possible? I don't know, but it really drives me crazy. And Al and I, we were both, you know, we were just both so crazy about it. I'm still. And I still am, you know, I still, you know, go off on my rant. I still march at all the marches. And I try to, you know, I try not to rant too much on social media, but most of the time I can't stop myself. And, you know, I gotta. I got an email from, from a kid just recently that, you know, maybe graduated seven, eight years ago. And he said, you know, that he found what I said, like, important and that he had my back on anything that, you know, and that I helped him understand, you know, and that made me really happy. You know, he was that. That my kids are listening, you know.

[Beau]

And so I gotta tell you, I think, think a big part of. I'm, I'm absolutely entranced by everything that you're saying right now. And I think like a big part of that is because you've stayed young in your mind and in your mindset and you've stayed so attached to youth based cultures that you're, you're, you're really blowing my mind right now with just how you're able to use your life experiences and to keep up with what is going on today. And even from, you know, following your social media, you, you post. I read every single post that you.

[Colin]

Like this podcast episode is happening.

[Beau]

Yes.

[Colin]

Well, obviously we've wanted to do this for quite some time, but you posted a random video of the misfits the other day, which we'll talk about in a second.

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah.

[Colin]

And we were just like, God, she's awesome.

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah, let's talk about that. Thank you. That makes me, that makes me feel happy because sometimes when I post in like Facebook groups, You know, man, oh man, like, I just get like, you know, and I don't know if you've ever seen them because sometimes they're so funn. I just screenshot them and. And you know, like the guy who explained, explained Straight Edge to me and then at the end he said, now, you know, oh my God. And then one guy told me, I think that you, you know, went to ska shows in the Midwest that you thought were hardcore shows. And you know, I get a lot of mansplaining and it just drives me nuts. And then some guys are like, really nasty, you know, like, they can be really hard.

[Colin]

People come out of the woodwork to get your back and be like, you don't.

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But. But it's mostly women, you know, I'd like to see. You know, there's a few guys, you know, there's a guy, Jan from Germany, he's all. He jumps in and rips them up, you know, I love Jan of White now.

[Beau]

There's gonna be a lot more now.

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah, I think.

[Colin]

I mean, you look at you as a teacher and as a. An idealist. Your ideals that you post about are so important today. Cause you look at like the people that are exposed to young men on a daily basis are people like Charlie Kirk, Andrew Tate, all these streamers who are all like, kind of subconsciously promoting weird right wing ideals.

[Nancy Burrell]

Absolutely. And it kills me.

[Colin]

It's insane. And it's important to have other voices out there who are logical.

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah, absolutely. That was a big disappointment to me when I found out that some of my students listen to that, you know, Andrew Tate guy especially. You know, I was like, what are you doing? You know, you're smarter than that. You know.

[Colin]

The Ramones at the University of Pennsylvania?

[Nancy Burrell]

Yes, the Ramones.

[Colin]

Walk me through it.

[Nancy Burrell]

So, okay, so I went to see Nils Lofgren. I loved Nils Lofgren when I was 16. Don't ask. You know, I just thought he was an amazing guitarist. You know, my, you know, Mick Ronson and Nils Lofgren. And so Nils Lofgren played at Montgomery County Community College, which was right down the street from my house. I was like, so pumped. So I went and there was a photographer there. And he told Nils that there's this girl that loves you. And he came out and met me. And then the photographer took pictures. Long story short, at the end of the night, the photographer said, I have tickets to see the Ramones at University of Pennsylvania if you want to go. And so my sister had just gotten her license and she was not a good driver, but together, you know, and my dad was strict, so we had to. You know, we had to. I don't know where we told him we were going, you know, a church dance or something, you know, but we went down to University of Penn and. And we saw the Ramones, and they were just like. You know, I was. You could be right up front. It was so easy to be right up front.

[Colin]

And I remember, because of the audience. Lack of audience density or.

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah. And just because, you know, we. Fearless, you didn't. You know, I was upfront for everything. I didn't care, you know. And.

[Beau]

And were people, like, push moshing or pogoing or was there stage diving?

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah, maybe like a little slammy pogoing kind of thing, you know?

[Colin]

You know.

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah, and it was fun. And then I remember Joey Ramone was. Was talking to me on the steps, and he. He said he liked to stand with, like, one step and then another, because I think he had, like, a back issue or something, you know, in 81. Yeah. But I think he had, like, scoliosis or something.

[Beau]

He had issues, for sure.

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah. Yeah. And. And I just remember he had, like, a really thick accent, and it was hard for me to understand him.

[Colin]

Like, the. Hey, New York.

[Beau]

Yeah.

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah. You know, and I was.

[Colin]

I would hope so.

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah. And I. And I was like a suburban kid, you know, so I didn't know, but I was like, what? I was enthralled, you know, I just was like, wow, you know, this is so cool.

[Beau]

And. And that appeal to you right away, The. The fact.

[Nancy Burrell]

Right away.

[Beau]

Just the. The fact that you could talk to someone like that.

[Nancy Burrell]

Absolutely.

[Beau]

Yeah.

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah. So, so many of the shows that I saw were, like, at the Spectrum or, you know, JFK Stadium or Tower Theater, and I, you know, I was too young for nightclubs, so being at a show where, you know, somebody came out and talked to you, I was, like, starstruck, you know, that was so cool to me. And then once I moved into the city when I was 19, and then, you know, went to the hot club like that, well, then everybody, you know, all the bands were outside smoking cigarettes outside, and, you know, you could just walk up to them and talk to them, and it was like, oh, man, I thought that was just so cool.

[Beau]

It is cool. We talk about that all the time. That. That's one of the beautiful things about punk rock and hardcore and metal to this day.

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah.

[Beau]

Underground music, let's say that everybody's just people, you know.

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah.

[Colin]

Kind of. It's kind of the Only genre where that regularly happened.

[Nancy Burrell]

Right, right. I think in my book, I talk about when I went to see Joan Jett at Emerald City in. In Ch. New Jersey, you know, and this guy, I had, like. Like, I don't know, some kind of crazy latex spandex pants and like a bumblebee sweater or something. Thank God we didn't have cameras as much.

[Colin]

There's some pictures in that.

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah, there are some pictures, but not that.

[Colin]

But they're all cool.

[Nancy Burrell]

Not that particular outfit, thank God. And. And, you know, this guy came up to me and said, like, cool pants. You know, we ended up talking and turned out, you know, then after a while, he was like, well, I gotta go. And I was like, oh, you know, he's leaving me. You know. But it turned out he was joking. Jets guitarist. And he had to be on stage.

[Colin]

Pretty cool.

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah. And so then he ended up coming and visiting me in Philly and stuff, you know. He was a really, really nice guy. We're still friends to this day. Beautiful. Yeah.

[Colin]

Okay, let's talk about it. You saw the Misfits in 81.

[Nancy Burrell]

I did.

[Colin]

You went up to the city. You stayed at the Chelsea Hotel. Tell us about it.

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah, so I went up with Ricky Ercoli, who's, you know, great photographer, and Johnny Vukich, who was another cool dude, and Robbie from the sadistic expert Floyd's. And we stayed at the Chelsea Hotel. I remember us getting our picture taken in front of, like, Sid and Nancy's room.

[Colin]

And, like, that was cool to you, in 1982?

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Beau]

Because when did. Yeah, when did Nancy die? It was like, 79 or something.

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah. 79. Yeah. Sid died in 79. So she was, like, right before that. Yeah. Yeah.

[Beau]

Okay.

[Nancy Burrell]

And of course, we didn't. You know, we. I mean, I still don't know if it really killed her, you know. I don't know. You know, it was just. They're just like, a pretty rough guy. Yeah.

[Beau]

I know this isn't. It's not a. It's not like, a great movie, but have you seen Sid, Nancy, the very old movie?

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah. I wanted to be in that movie.

[Beau]

I could see that.

[Nancy Burrell]

You know, my name is. Yeah. Yeah. I wanted to be, you know, Like, I think I sent. Forget the guy's name. I think his first name is Alex. And I think I sent him a letter saying, like, pick me for this movie. They.

[Beau]

The way they kind of showed how she dies in that is actually, I think, kind of the most plausible.

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah.

[Colin]

Probably the best part of the movie.

[Beau]

I would Say one of them. Yeah, I don't know. I could. Gary Oman's so good in it.

[Nancy Burrell]

And she's great too, Chloe, whatever her name is. She was fabulous too. Yeah, that was a great movie. I saw it in the theater a couple of times, I think. And so. But the Chelsea Hotel was just so incredibly nasty. I mean, I'm talking cockroaches everywhere. Like, you can go to the bathroom, they were crawling on you. It was like, like disgusting. It was like one of those quarters episode TV shows, you know.

[Beau]

Yeah.

[Nancy Burrell]

And then we went to Chase park where the, you know, where the Misfits played. And back then it was really uncool to like the Misfits, you know.

[Beau]

Explain, please.

[Nancy Burrell]

And so they only like. And this is my memory, so you know that they just. They got gigs around Halloween usually. Although we saw them in like, I think it was August. But that's, you know, they played and you know, the Undead and you know, they were like horror bands. And like everybody else was kind of, I think, stripped down, you know, jeans, T shirt, leather jacket kind of thing. And you know, they were still makeup.

[Colin]

You know, which in post glam world was maybe.

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah. Was not. Yeah.

[Colin]

What made them uncool?

[Nancy Burrell]

I don't know. I think so, you know, but I just, I was blown away by them. And I just remember, you know, there were cockroaches all over Chase park tour. I remember I had a drink and like there was a cockroach on it. And it was, it was like, oh, let me get back to my Philadelphia apartment where, you know, the cockroaches stay in the hallways.

[Colin]

They're your neighbors.

[Nancy Burrell]

Exactly, exactly. Like I don't have to worry about him.

[Colin]

But that video you posted, how does he sound? So good.

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah, I mean, and the sound that night was so horrible, you know, that was a bad night sound. But like, I think Glenn always really liked playing Philly. Like that's one of the only times I've ever seen him dive into an audience.

[Colin]

What the hell?

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah. And I told you he broke the lock on the door and let all the little kid, you know, young kids in and stuff. You know, he was, you know, he was really cool and nice to the people in Philly, you know, because sometimes I think he could be a little, you know, but you know, I love the Misfits. I saw them a bunch of times and they, you know, they were always entertaining, you know, even when they. Even when they weren't precision, they were entertaining.

[Colin]

You know, you would hope so. You would soon after that start managing the sadistic exploits.

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah, yeah. So that.

[Colin]

Which ends up being a huge part of your life.

[Nancy Burrell]

It was, it really was. You know, I wanted to be a contributor and I remember trying it. My brother had a bass guitar and I tried to learn how to paint and I just had zero talent, you know, I had no musical talent. I couldn't sing, I couldn't play an instrument. So I realized if I wanted to be a contributor, I was going to have to be in the infrastructure, you know. And so with the band, we decided we wanted to bring all ages shows to the kids. And there was nothing like that really. There was one group called the Swingers, a bunch of young kids that had. Had done Bauhaus at the Elk Center. And boy, I remember going in there just thinking that was, you know, so creepy and cool and weird. So when we decided we wanted to do an all ages show, we were like, let's do the Elks. And so we just got four local bands and you know, charge five bucks and we just papered the city with, you know, so much wheat pasted. Remember, wheat is getting your hair and your face and everything was just awful. And you know, put them up in every record store. And we really, you know, our publicity machine was hardcore. And we didn't know my little brother was working the door because he had a money belt. And we were not in a good neighborhood and so we were, we weren't sure whether anybody would show up. We thought we knew the 40 or 50 punks in Jersey, Philly area. And I remember, you know, the night of the show looking down, there was just like a line down the block and we were like, oh my God. And it was, it was just amazing. It was probably one of the better.

[Colin]

Manager from that one night than. Managers.

[Beau]

Yeah.

[Nancy Burrell]

It was one of the happiest days of my life. And I remember, you know, the guys at the end of the night like had me come out and like I had never even spoken into a microphone before. I didn't know what I was doing, you know, to thank the crowd, you know, it was just. Oh, it was mind blowing. So then I knew I wanted to do more shows. Even though they were wicked stressful. There's so much that could go wrong.

[Colin]

Yeah, I mean you're, you said you, you were pestering Hilly at to book at cbgb.

[Nancy Burrell]

I called him every day. He'd be like, call me tomorrow. And I'd be like, the next day I call on the phone, hi, it's Nancy. You know, finally like gave us a show on like a Tuesday night or something, you know. And yeah, and they, you know, the band did pretty well. And I don't even know how we got. Because we didn't have a van or anything like that. I think we did. Somebody had a station wagon maybe, or we borrowed, like, we play with the mob a lot. Those guys were so nice and, you know, borrow equipment or whatever, you know. But then we started going up to New York all the time and that was really. That's fine. And then I got to meet like Jimmy. Jimmy G and John. John Watson and Chris Cheruki and guys from the Young and the Useless and even Harley. And Harley, you.

[Colin]

There's a photo of you and a young Harley Flanagan.

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah, my little baby Harley. Yeah.

[Colin]

It's just like every old, older punk has the same photo with the young Harley.

[Nancy Burrell]

Joe Strummer, he was, you know, I remember, you know, kind of worrying about him, you know, because he was so young, but he was. He was so cool and he. And he was such a good drummer. You know, I saw him at this. I saw him play Philly with the stimulators and I was just like, damn, this kid is good, you know.

[Colin]

And was he as much of just a little.

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah, you know, I remember, like, him and those, you know, young and useless guys just like be throwing ice cubes down my shirt and stuff, you know, they were just, you know, they were kids, you know, and they were fun and they were nice, you know, and. And, you know, Harley and I are still friends. Friends to this day. We had a little, you know, there was, you know, the whole New York, Boston thing came out and like. But Al and I were out of hardcore by like 1985. You know, we. Al sold all his equipment and we bought a jet Ski.

[Beau]

That's right. That's right.

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah. Like a stand up, you know, the stand up Kawasaki one that you, like, had to pay your dues on the ride.

[Colin]

I mean, come on, man. Good trade.

[Nancy Burrell]

Exactly. One of my proudest accomplishments weren't a lot of women that rode them at the time. And I was like, you know, so. Felt so badass that I knew how to ride one. And so we did that for a lot of years. And then, then, you know, social media came in and I remember Tony Redmond was one of the first people to interview me about like, I think about Buff hall or something. And then he asked me about the Harley thing and he was like, oh, yeah, you know, there's this. And I. I was like, I don't know anything about that. You know, because when Ssd always went to New York. They got huge crowds. There was like, you know, a lot of love in the air for ssd. There was one night they played at the Rock Hotel and there was a show earlier in the day at CBGB's with the fuse. And there was like some kind of a fake band called the Fuck Ups or I don't know what they were called, but like they said some incendiary things that piss New York off. And then those people came to this show and there was some Boston crew kids who were drunk that night. And so there was like a couple scuffles in the audience, you know, where, you know, one of the guys got his shirt ripped, but that was it, you know. And I found out literally decades later that Jonathan and Nastas from DYS got punched in the face, you know, but I was from Philly and I said this before in interviews, you know, like if somebody didn't throw a bomb at you and you, you didn't get hit, 77 stitches in your head with a lead pipe or the cops didn't throw you in jail, like it was a good evening, you know, so like a punch in the face, you know, shake that shit off, you know, So I didn't really see that as anything, but I remember Tony saying, well, in Harley's book he talks about somebody punching Al in the face. I was like, what? You know, like, we had no idea, you know, and Jamie and Crick, you know, we had no idea about all that stuff that went down, you know, Baby lying.

[Beau]

Yeah.

[Nancy Burrell]

And then, and then afterwards, you know, Harley and I talked, you know, and you know, it was just kind of like, you know, I remember John Joseph was one of my students contacted me and he's like, oh, John Joseph's in this podcast saying that he laid Al out. And I was like, no, that never happened. You know, I asked Al go, John Joseph never laid you out, did he said no. And Al and Al would say like, you know, alone took some, you know, not so much in punk rock, but in his pre punk rock world, you know, was a scrapper, you know, and, and you know, seen those arms. Yeah. And he got, you know, but he was in some, you know, 10 on one, him being one fights where he did get hurt, you know, and so he wasn't, you know, ashamed to say if he did, you know, and. But John Joseph backed right down after we called him out. Yeah. Yeah.

[Beau]

It's interesting too because there, there's the, the judges song about New York.

[Nancy Burrell]

I just found out about that.

[Beau]

Boston came around One night, pushed him to shove. We were down to fight. And then Harley. There's a quote of Harley saying, I was there that night. The judge guys weren't there. So you don't know, you know, who to listen to, you know?

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah, well, so I'm listening, though.

[Beau]

I'll tell you.

[Nancy Burrell]

I went to Judge just recently, you know, like. And that's the first time I ever saw Judge.

[Colin]

You went to the auction?

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah, I went to that. I went to, you know, I went to that show at the Middle East. It was Integrity, Earthquake Races and Judge, you know. Yeah. And I thought. I remember listening to Mike's interview with Drew Stone, and I thought. I thought that was one of the best I ever heard, you know. I think I listened to it, like, twice. You know, I thought that kid had a pretty amazing life, you know. So I wanted to see him and Matt Pincus, who, you know, he's Trust Records, and Joe Nelson was in town. And so I was talking to Mike and he was like, you know, telling me about this lyric, which I think, like, maybe a couple of times when I put stuff up, like, people put that lyric, but, like, I didn't know what it was, you know. And then he told me about it and he said, you know, he just. It was not intended. He told me to be like any kind of, you know, slag on SSD or any. Maybe like the first wave of hardcore, you know, He. I forget how he told me. He said it was guys in, like. I forget. He told me, like, they had some distinctive Boston guys, like, clothing. I can't remember, or hats or something. And I was like, you know, I don't. But, like, we didn't know any of that stuff until decades later. As far as we were concerned, New York was second home, you know? And, I mean, there's, you know, there's not two nicer guys than. Than Chris Foley and Jamie Sharappa, you know, like, why would you not like them? You know, Like. And I can see why a lot of people don't like Al when they first meet him, because he's, like, kind of scary looking, you know, I know my family was like, this is the guy you're gonna marry, you know? But then once you get to know Al, like, who's more lovable, you know, than Al and funny and, you know.

[Beau]

You bring me to one of my most favorite quotes I've read is. Is. And we might be cutting ahead a little bit. It's okay. But I gotta talk about it now. When Alan, you met face to face, you Were smoking and he said, do you smoke? And you went, not anymore.

[Nancy Burrell]

Not anymore.

[Beau]

That is, you could put that in a movie and people would think it was like two on the nose. That is one of the most incredibly witty things you could have done.

[Colin]

It's true love.

[Nancy Burrell]

It was true love. I mean, I, you know, I talked to Al on the phone first for four hours. I think I fell in love with him right then, you know, and I wasn't even sure which dude I was.

[Colin]

Talking, you know, is the incredibly jacked.

[Nancy Burrell]

No, I. I had bought the record and it said, ssd control wants to play your city. And there was a number and I was doing shows, and so I called them to do a show and he couldn't do the show that I wanted him to do. But we ended up talking for four hours, which was really expensive back then. And then, you know, after I got off the phone and he had invited me to the DK's the next weekend in Staten Island. I don't know how I was going to get the there, but I was going to get there. I, you know, I pulled out the album and I saw his picture. I was like, oh, he looked a little scary. You know, it's a full on love is blind situation. Yeah, I just, you know, and then once I met him in Staten Island, I was like, you know, I really like this dude. But then I still thought Boston was too far away, you know, and. And I was trying to fight it a little bit. And then he said, call me in like all August and said that MDC was playing in New York City. Was I going? And I said, yeah, I'm going, you know, and so then we met there, and then that was it. I was, you know, head over heels in love.

[Colin]

I was, yeah, you called the chapter. I met. I meet my match.

[Nancy Burrell]

I met my match. Yeah, he was like, yeah, he was really. He's just so different. You know, the Al is definitely probably on the autism spectrum. And I'm saying that as a person with a behavioral science degree who worked in education, you know, he was never diagnosed, but he's definitely, you know, he's just different. And it's what made him a good engineer because he doesn't think like everybody else. So if there was a problem, everybody saw a solution one way. But his brain thought different. He'd be like, well, how about this, you know, And Joe Nelson said that too, from Trust Records. He said, al asked me questions, questions that I never thought, you know, I never even thought were questions, you know, and when they were Making, you know, when they were remastering the record and stuff, Joe, you know, was, you know, Al's incapable of lying. He cannot lie. And so that's a good thing and it's a bad thing because sometimes he has no filter. And some. Like, you know, when my. When, you know, he'd go down with my parents and my mom would be like, do you like my lasagna out? And he would be like, it's not as good as my father's. You know, shut up. That's not what you're supposed to say, you know, but like, with. I remember one time Joe Nelson had given him, like, a mix of the. Of the Kids Will have Their say. And Al was just going off on him saying how bad it was. This sucks, and this is horrible. And I was like, al, like, you can't, you know, like, tone it down. He's like, why? You know, like, it is. It's horrible.

[Colin]

Sounds, like, very familiar to me.

[Nancy Burrell]

And so then, you know, Joe was doing all kinds of different versions. And then he was like, well, I'll sneak something in the middle here. And then Al was like, I know exactly what you're doing. You know, he's good, though. You know, he was just really funny. Like, he was absolutely the most brilliant man I ever met. Like, he just was so crazy smart in a way that, like, I couldn't even, you know, I mean, you'd spent.

[Colin]

A decade, you know, meeting and bumping elbows with everybody, all these legendary punk rock. But Al's the one that.

[Nancy Burrell]

Al was the one.

[Colin]

I was the one that. Gotcha.

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah, he just, you know, he was just really different. I like the whole hockey thing too. You know, I always thought hockey players were different. You know, they were. You know, they're. You know, you got soccer players flopping on the field when you touch him, you know, and you got hockey players playing a whole period with a broken leg, and Al had his. You know, his teeth were not to have. I just found all of that very attractive.

[Colin]

Understandable. So despite. Despite flicking the sig. You mentioned that, you know, acknowledging that him being straight edge was cool, but not really your thing at the time.

[Nancy Burrell]

No. Yeah. So I was like. I remember, like, I learned about straight edge, like everybody else through Minor Threat. And then. So, you know, I. Ian's at that first, that SOA black flag show in Kensington that turned into this vicious ra riot. And I got hit in the face. You know, I got. Took a punch in the face and got knocked out. And so I just, you know, I didn't really, I loved the DC music, but I kind of thought the DC guys were uncool, you know, and I wasn't, you know, I couldn't. I couldn't really like, fathom straight edge.

[Colin]

And so did you think it was like a malevolent thing at the time?

[Nancy Burrell]

I.

[Colin]

The idea of straight edge.

[Nancy Burrell]

Because, I mean, I thought it was like, you know, I just thought it was. Was like, not fun, you know. I didn't think it was, you know, I didn't really understand it, I think.

[Beau]

You know, were they Catholic school and, you know.

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah.

[Colin]

Was that like an up? It was up. These uptight weirdos or something?

[Nancy Burrell]

I don't know if I thought they were uptight, but they punched me in the face. So, like, I wasn't, you know, I didn't really like him. But then when I kind of got to know those guys at Buff hall, then, you know, I saw that they were, you know, that. But they were, you know, nice and cool. And I, you know, I. To this day, I love Ian. He just came and visited me last month. And, you know, they're just, you know, they're, they're first rate guys. But, you know, wasn't a requirement for me to be straight edge when I met Al. Like, a lot of people, like when I post, you know, I run the social media for SSD and sometimes I'll, you know, post like, Straight edge stuff, you know, and then, you know, some asshole will come on, you know, and be like, oh, well, they were so militant and they, if you weren't straight edge, they, you know, you know, killed anybody with a beer in their hand kind of bullshit, you know. And I'm like, that never.

[Colin]

I'm his wife.

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah. It just never happened, you know. I don't know what happened to straight edge. Further down the line when it became all this weird no sex vegan shit, you know, like, that was not the straight edge that I knew. You know, the straight edge that I knew. And it wasn't a requirement for me. But after I moved to Boston and, you know, Al was really into, like, working out and lifting weights and there. There were no girls that really lifted weights back then. But, like, I wanted to do it, you know. And so I started going to the World Gym with him and Nautilus plus and places like that. And. And I started to like, you know, get in touch with my health and. And then I decided that I was going to, you know, I was going to do it because I was totally into like, that aesthetic, you know, that I wanted to be super healthy and in good shape. And, you know, we're, you know, we're in our bathing suits, riding jet skis all the time. Yeah, you know, it was fun. And so. And. And then I pretty much, you know, I was pretty much straight edge ever since then. You know, there were times, you know, there were times with work. I worked at a law firm and stuff, and there were times, but. But I was kind of person that if I drank, I get a little. Little stupid and crazy and stuff. It was never a good thing for me. So.

[Colin]

So that, that, that is interesting to me because I had a conversation with at I went to the unction the other night. I had a conversation with Carl from Earth Crisis recently about how the old guard of punkin, hardcore and Straight Edge didn't look at it as this lifetime commitment type thing. You have youth of today, breaking, reclaiming, breaking. You got Ian being reluctant to embrace it at all.

[Beau]

Rabies often did it to see you.

[Colin]

Was it to Al, a lifetime commitment type thing.

[Nancy Burrell]

The entire time that I knew Al, you know, he did not drink or, or do drugs. But then when Al started having back surgeries, and I hope he won't be mad that I tell this story, but, you know, he had, you know, he had fusions in his back surgery, so they had to, you know, they had to give him a lot of drugs and what are you gonna do? Yeah, yeah.

[Colin]

And it's like the worst surgery you could.

[Beau]

Back surgery.

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah. You know, it was really, really hard. And then, you know, I remember after he got out, like a couple months went by, and then, you know, he was like, oh, I have the flu, you know, and I feel really sick. And, you know, went on for a while. And then finally I said to him, I go, did you stop taking a pill or something? I said, because I think you're dope sick, you know. And sure enough, the doctor had been prescribing amoxycontin, which was like brand new at, and he just didn't want to take it anymore. You know, he figured he was healed and he stopped. He just stopped at cold turkey. And he was sick as a dog, you know, and so he had to, you know, he had eight back surgery, so he had to take himself off of opiates, you know, a lot. And he talks about that in interviews and stuff, you know, but. And then I remember his doctor, you know, his pain was so bad, his doctor recommended medical marijuana. And I can remember he picked me up from school one day and he was like almost crying, telling me that, you know, he was going to try and I was like, Al, if this is going to give you relief where you're not suicidal because his pain was so bad, at one point he was suicidal. I was like, take whatever you need.

[Colin]

You know, the man, the man, like the movement that he, realistically, he was such a big part of the spearhead of the movement of straight edge.

[Nancy Burrell]

Right, right.

[Colin]

The man has, he had earned however many pounds of medical marijuana.

[Nancy Burrell]

Right. So I get, you know, I get emails from like, you know, these people in Austria or somewhere and they're like, you know, straight edge his whole life, you know. You know, like, I don't want to speak for my husband, number one, but, you know, there's times when, you know, people may not believe it, but like, you need something to get you through an operation, you know, and, and so he, you know, he never used drugs or alcohol recreationally that I ever saw.

[Colin]

You know, that's what we're talking about. That's the most important. Yeah, whatever, you know.

[Nancy Burrell]

Right.

[Beau]

Let me, let me ask you. He had a particular move on stage, Al did, where he would jump and do the coolest looking jump you've ever seen. But would he land on his ass?

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah, he would land wherever he land. He was like, of the wrestling mind set. I mean, that's awesome.

[Beau]

But is that, I mean, he had.

[Colin]

As many back surgeries as Hulk Hogan.

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah. We wonder, you know, we always wondered what, you know, he had a degenerative back.

[Beau]

Okay, okay.

[Nancy Burrell]

Condition.

[Beau]

Sure.

[Nancy Burrell]

But you know, the jumps on stage. He was injured at his, at GE so much. He worked for Jet. He was a mechanical engineer at ge. He tested jet engines. I remember one time a guy ran cord along the. And he tripped. Al tripped over it, you know, and, and ge, they didn't want you to report accidents, you know, it was like considered a bad thing. And so, you know, he was a company, you know, he, he really loved working at GE and he didn't, you know, I hate GE for that, but. Yeah, and, and I don't know if you read Al's obituary, but I gave him a little dig in his obituary. One of my friends was like, that was a great obituary, but only you would do the punk rock thing. Thing is like, you know, slack in a corporation and then obituary. But I did because I thought, you know, I would be happy that I did that, you know, so he had that. And then one time, I remember he was lifting weights, you know, you know, the ones where, you know, it's on like a thing and, you know, you're Going like this. Yeah. And he had, like, put it up and then leaned forward and it landed, you know, and he was lifting a lot of. And landed on his back.

[Beau]

Oh, no.

[Nancy Burrell]

One time at my house, at my parents house, he was carrying a hot water heater for my father and her. So there was like, many things that could have contributed to his back hurting, you know, and it was just like.

[Colin]

All of it.

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah. I think it was cumulative and, you know, it makes me sad that he had to go through all that and then, you know, get cancer on top of it all, you know, it just kills me. So.

[Colin]

Pardon this interruption. We hate to interrupt this unbelievable episode, but it's very important and it'll be super fast. Guys, it's officially November. You know what that means? It means it's almost December, which means it's almost Christmas, which Al Burrell loves.

[Beau]

Oh, wow. Perfect.

[Colin]

So in true Beryllian fashion, let's get you and your loved ones ready for Christmas over at Manscaped. We gotta get your nose hairs clean. We gotta get your butt hairs clean. We gotta get your face hairs clean. All the hairs can be cleaned with the handyman, okay? And if you use code hard lore, you're gonna get 15% off.

[Beau]

What else you hear that?

[Colin]

And free shipping.

[Beau]

Now that's the big one for me, Colin. While you clean up that neck of yours, you throw free shipping on just about anything, I'm gonna buy it, you add 15% off on top of it.

[Colin]

And I'm in, man. And not only do they have the handyman, that is the ultimate travel companion. They got the crop preserver. It's like a liquid talc. You get it on you, don't worry about it. You smell good all day. They got the crop reviver. You're at the gym, you're sweating for any reason. You, big guy like us, where you sweat just walking around farting, you sweat anything. Revive.

[Beau]

They got the lawnmower, they got the body scrub. They got the hedge trimmer. They got the weed whacker. They got it all.

[Colin]

Just scape your man, okay? Quit fucking around. Quit dicking around.

[Beau]

Escape your woman.

[Colin]

Escape it all. There's no rules here, okay? Code hard lore, 15% off, free shipping right now. This episode is also brought to you by AG1 and AGZ.

[Beau]

Oh, my God, AGZ.

[Colin]

We've been drinking AG1 for years now. It's the first thing we do. Cold, cold water, 12 ounces, a little scoop of green powder. Shake it up in the little bottle that they'll get, that you get straight from that.

[Beau]

It's really nice, too. It's like such a nice bottle.

[Colin]

That's right. It's giving you all the daily probiotics and prebiotics you need. And now they have even more. You start your day with one. You end your day with Z A G, Z a melatonin free nighttime mixture you'd make. You can pour it in water or milk.

[Beau]

Milk.

[Colin]

It puts you straight down, baby. And if you go to drinkage1.com hard lore, you're going to get a free frother.

[Beau]

Wow.

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah.

[Colin]

And like I said, Christmas is coming.

[Beau]

Christmas is coming. This is perfect for that stocking. This is perfect for that special someone. This is perfect maybe to send a little message to say, hey, I'm thinking about you and your guts.

[Colin]

That's right. Stuff this in the stocking and then stuff it down your gullet and. And just live a healthy, healthier life. That's a very simple change. Back to the episode.

[Beau]

So around this time, if we're going back to. To your.

[Nancy Burrell]

Your timeline, I jump way ahead.

[Beau]

No, you're totally fine. You eventually moved to Kenmore Square, which is very affable.

[Nancy Burrell]

I live like, you know, I'm in. I'm in Fenway. I'm not really Kenmore, but I'm. I'm a few blocks from Kenmore.

[Beau]

From Kenmore. You just had a post the other day about how that, that particular intersection, that square, fabled square, negative effect songs and you know, all the, all the. I know what Kenmore Square is. You know what I mean? I'm not from Boston. Did you find it natural?

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah. So I loved it when I moved here. I was really worried that I wasn't gonna have friends, you know, girlfriends especially, and, you know, like, I didn't know. But the Boston crew, girls and guys just, they just embraced me. They used to come and visit me. My. My apartment then was like, you know, know four blocks from where I live right now. And. And, you know, people would stop by and see me all the time. And they, you know, Boston people were just so great nuts, you know, I met Angie, who is, you know, went on to be Jamie's wife and my girlfriend Jackie, before I moved here. I remember she sent me a picture of Al in the mail and said, you know, I took this picture of Al and I can't wait till you move to Boston. I didn't even know who she was, you know, but I thought, wow, that's so cool. And Christina, lease, you know, who went on to be an actress who was dating Springer at The time, you know, everybody was just so nice, you know, I just, you know, I loved Boston people. And I would ride, you know, I had a beach cruiser and I would ride my bike down to Kenmore, you know, if no one was, you know, and you'd always see, you know, three or four people that you knew, and you could hung out and you'd go to Super Salad or, you know, it was just a cool spot to hang out. Now it's nothing like that, you know, it's nothing. And my neighborhood people are like, oh, it must be really nostalgic for you. No, it's not, because it's not anything like. When I lived here, it was all artists and musicians and students, and the only places to eat were McDonald's and Burger King. Now there's like 30 restaurants. You know, half of them are vegan. Like, as soon as I moved over here, I be, you know, I went vegan.

[Colin]

And.

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah, it's just, you know, it's a completely different place. And. And I think that's kind of good because I think it would be too. It would be too sad if it was just like, you know, so.

[Colin]

And when you moved to Boston. So the book is called I'm not holding your coat.

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah.

[Beau]

Yeah.

[Colin]

That coat, pretty cool. The alcohol, the straight edge jacket.

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah, the straight edge jacket. Al gave that to me at the misfits at the church show in Cambridge, December 1982. You know, he just. You know, he just gave it to me. And for once in my life, I had the presence of mind to keep something, you know, because I just. I got rid of so much stuff, you know, if you. If you follow me, you know, like, I gave away test pressings and. Yeah. So, you know, I had the presence of mind to keep that jacket, you know.

[Colin]

You still have it?

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah, yeah, of course.

[Colin]

Yeah.

[Beau]

That's the coolest thing.

[Nancy Burrell]

It's in the closet right there.

[Colin]

The only coat you'll hold.

[Nancy Burrell]

Yes, that. You know, that's what I. I remember saying, like, you know, I won't hold your coat, but if you give it to me as a present, I'll keep it, you know?

[Colin]

Yeah.

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah. So I was, you know, I thought that was a pretty cool thing when Al gave that to me, you know, and I'm glad that I saved it.

[Beau]

I'm glad you did, too. So did you. Obviously, the idea of girlfriend, friends, girls and shows are holding the coats for the guys, whatever. Obviously this was something that Colin and I grew up. You. You would hear about that. Obviously, you were experiencing that at that Age.

[Nancy Burrell]

No, no, I didn't experience that at my age. That was not my experience at all. Like, we. Yeah. And I. There's so much photographic evidence to back that up. If you look at the shows, you know, ss, you know, in Boston or in Philly, the women are up front. You know, like, we're right up front. You know, we're doing, like, we're making happen. I never heard this holding my coat thing till Facebook. And that's. Yeah, that's when I. Like, in. In 2003, 2004. Like, around that time, you know, guys would be saying, well, you know, we gave our girlfriends our coats to hold. And I was like, the hell is that shit? You know, that was not my experience.

[Beau]

I see. I assumed. I assumed it was a spiteful thing that you had held on to.

[Nancy Burrell]

No, it was a spiteful thing because of the mansplainers who. Who would attack me when I would post about shows. So, like, I like to post on anniversary dates. Okay. And I'd be in these different hardcore Facebook groups, and I would be like, you know, on this day, you know, Minor Threat played here, you know, and this happened. And then some dude born in the night 90s would, you know, would say, that's not Herbin Plaza, you know, like. And I'd be like, I was at the show. You weren't even there. You know, like, they would try to correct me or contradict me or refute what I'd said for shows that I actually did, you know, and it just pissed me off so bad. The mansplaining was just. It still is, you know, off the charts, you know, Like, I don't know why, because the guys that I came up with in hardcore in 19, you know, the early 1980s, were amazing. You know, they were respectful, they were cool. They looked out for us. They, you know, they didn't take shit, and they just let us live our lives, you know? And so to have these guys, like, say to me, you know, women in hardcore don't mix, that was a. That was one I got, you know, or, you know, some guy said to me, you just, you know, dick road guy, you know, I was like, what? You know, it was just. You know, it was really. It just angered me. So I figured, you know what? I'll write this book and tell my story, and then you can come at me. I don't give a shit, you know, so do it. Yeah.

[Colin]

Which. That is very cool to hear you. In the book, you talk about how much you love the bad brains.

[Nancy Burrell]

Yes.

[Colin]

And. And. But then at the same time, it's hard. There was an increase in their kind of like homophobic, misogynistic lyrics and mentality. And I've always wondered how punks at the time reacted to that. Cause it seemed like when you talk to some people about it, they're like, ah, it was just like kind of the way it was when in your book, is the first time I've seen actual resistance to it.

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah, that was really. That was the first time I had to navigate something like that as a young person, you know, because I loved the band Brains. Like, I mean, I cannot even tell you how amazing they were back then. Like, it was. There was just nothing like it. I can't even, you know, you said.

[Colin]

It made all your other records feel slow.

[Nancy Burrell]

Slow. Yeah. You know, and I just, you know, I just thought they were great. And so I remember that after the first time I saw them, I said, I'm gonna see this band wherever they play in a tri state area region for the rest, you know, whatever. And I did. That's a promise I kept. I. I remember like seeing them on like a Tuesday night and getting dropped off in front of my law firm in the morning and like putting my pantyhose on in the elevator to go to work, you know, so. Because I just, you know, I just thought they were great. But it was at that show, that show that I went to New York with mdc, where MDC confronted, you know, Dave from mdc, confronted Darryl and about it, you know, and that's the first time I ever heard that word bumbleclot. I didn't know what that word was before that. And so it was hard because I love them so much and. And you know, I. I didn't want to do. But, you know, the thing. And I read an interview with Daryl years later about it. You know, the band Brains were by far not the only homophobic, you know, misogynistic band out there. It's all over Chromax, you know, but there was. Was some racism involved. I think that made them be the, you know, the ones that got that got the most shit for it, you know, and so. And it almost coincided with, you know, I think the last time I saw them when they were in their greatness, where they just blew me away, was probably 1983. So then it wasn't so hard to give them up because they were no longer what. But I, you know, I chased that 198182 high for straight through the 2000s, like, hoping that I would see them. And I Just see a glimmer of that. But I never did, you know, so there's. You know, I've had guys tell me, oh, I saw them in 1987, and they were, like, amazing. Well, you know what? You didn't see them the way. Sorry. You just.

[Colin]

You're not a quickness gal.

[Nancy Burrell]

No, not, you know, I mean, it's okay. Like, you know, it's all right. I don't, you know, I don't hate it, but it's not what they. I mean, you were there. I can't even tell you. I mean, there's enough videos out there that you probably know. Like, I mean, they need to.

[Beau]

Is one of the greatest live sets.

[Nancy Burrell]

Exactly. And I'm so glad that that is on tape, you know, and there's also the one, the first time I saw them at the Elk center in Philadelphia. That's on tape, too. It's not as good a quality as that one with CBGB's, but I remember there were, like, you know, there were little kids there that night, like Zeke Zagar, who's playing with HR now, and Chuck Trees and people like that. Like, you know, they were just tiny little kids, and I was worried they were going to get hurt at the show, you know, So I was, like, keeping an eye on them, you know, to make sure. But I remember hearing those opening notes of Big Takeover and it was like a magnetic pool. I was like, you know, and there's pictures. Like, a girl contacted me, like, seven years ago. She's like, I have pictures of you at the Bad Brains at the Elks. I was like, oh, my God, send them to me. And you can just see my face is like. I'm like. Right. I'm on the stage practically, and I'm just like. The look of all on my face just says it all. Like, I was just. It was a Meg, you know, I was like, this band. Oh, my.

[Colin]

You were not alone. It seemed they changed everything.

[Beau]

Seems like.

[Nancy Burrell]

People told me that. People told me. They said, when you see the bad brains, your life will change. And it is true. It is absolutely true. And, you know, it's like, you know, the Robert Frost poem. Like, nothing gold can stay. Nothing that potent and powerful and explosive could ever last longer than the years that it did. So very true. I feel.

[Colin]

I know another band that you said had a similar experience for you was Black Flag Damaged.

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah, yeah.

[Colin]

Black Flag, SOA and the Kensington Brawl. Let's get into it.

[Nancy Burrell]

Oh, my God. That night. Yeah. So that was. That was crazy night. So we knew that Kensington was a dangerous place. And I had been living. You know, I was living in Philly maybe like a year or so. And so I had. You know, my dad was a Marine, so I had street smarts. You know, I wasn't. You know, I wasn't naive or whatever, but everywhere was very dangerous back then, and I just figured it was part of the deal, you know, and so. So we went down there, you know, to see. I loved soa. That's. You know, I had seen Black Flag a few months before that with DEZ as singer, and. And just.

[Colin]

You liked that.

[Nancy Burrell]

You were like, des will remain my favorite singer.

[Beau]

Most. I think most Black Flag heads. That. That's their opinion, is that.

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah, I mean, I like Henry, too. You know, I do like Henry, but I really damaged. Yeah, I really did. Yeah, I really did. Like, you know, I really like Des. But I loved soa, and I. That's. That's the main reason I went that night was to see soa. So, you know, we got there, and I remember meeting, you know, people from D.C. i remember there was. There were girls there that Tony was there. She played in one of the. One of the D.C. bands, and Cynthia Conley was there, and Ian was there, you know, and talking about. Talking to them. And I remember Chuck Meehan, who's like a Philly legend, you know, warning the D.C. kids, you know, that they weren't in Kansas, you know, like this, you know, whatever. And so the locals came into the. Came into the show, and, you know, they were starting in the pit. You know, like, kids were. You know, they had never seen slam dancing before, you know, so they were jumping in the pit, and, you know, punks were giving it right back to them and everything. And then, you know, years later, when Ian and I compared notes, he was up on stage, and he saw these two young kids come in and, like, throw punches. And then the dc. There was a lot of DC kids there that were drunk as well that night, and they went running after these kids. But Ian recognized it as a setup. He was like, this is a setup. Don't do that. You know, but it was too late. They ran outside, and so everybody ran outside. And then it was just like they were out there waiting for us. And it was, you know, everybody in the neighborhood, old men throwing rocks, little kids, you know, everybody. And they were. You know, they weren't playing. They had bats and lead pipes and everything. And when all the chaos ensued, um, I thought it was. And, you know, to this day, I still thought it was a skinhead. From D.C. who hit me in the face. And I got knocked out, but I had Mace. And so I just, you know, when I got up, I was just like, mason, everybody to get out of my way so I could get the fuck out the door, you know. And we had taken the train there, and so I had to get on it. It was an elevated. Just like. Just like the warriors, if you've ever seen that. It was just like running from the turn ball acs. It was exactly like that. And I had just seen that movie a couple, you know, a couple years before that.

[Beau]

Yeah.

[Colin]

And I remember you're running for your life thing.

[Nancy Burrell]

I'm running for my life.

[Colin]

It's just like the warriors, and that's.

[Nancy Burrell]

I was hiding between. I was hiding between two cars, waiting to hear the elevated train come because I wasn't going to run up there until it came.

[Colin]

Wow.

[Beau]

You know, they do that in the movie.

[Nancy Burrell]

Just. Just like the movie.

[Beau]

That's amazing.

[Nancy Burrell]

Just like the movie.

[Colin]

You're good.

[Nancy Burrell]

And so, you know, I was lucky to get out of there. And then, you know, Ian, they got, you know, stuck where they couldn't run back into the club. They couldn't. There was nowhere to go. And the cops came and, you know, they. They were hidden, you know, they were. The cops were definitely on the townie side, you know. And then Ian goes to get in his car with Cynthia and her sister at his Duster, which he was having problems with, and like, turns it and it's dead. And he's like, holy shit. You know, so now here. Yeah. So he says to the cops, like, you got. Give me a jump. You know, and they didn't want to do it, you know, but they did. And they were able to get out of town enough that they broke down in Philly and slept in a park, but then they were able to. To get home. And then, you know, John Stabb tells the story. You know, they all went to the hospital afterwards, you know, who got stitches in their head. You know, people got hit with bats and pipes and everything. And then he tells a story of seeing a guy in there holding his neck. And. And when he took his hand away from his neck, the guy had like a big chunk out of his neck that he got in a bar fight with somebody, and the guy didn't have a fight, so he just bit this big chunk out. And John, John, John ends his. His little thing saying, yeah, Phillies for barbarians. And so after that, you know, I wasn't. I wasn't too keen on those D.C. guys, you know, Like, I thought, you know, but when we did Buff, there just had started to be just a tiny little bit of schism, you know, not anything like, you know, you hear about. Just. And so Allison and I and this guy named Rob, we decided to form a byo, you know, we borrowed from. I talked to Sean Stern on the phone all the time, and.

[Colin]

Oh, yeah.

[Nancy Burrell]

And we wanted to. You know, we wanted to make an east coast version of that, and he gave us his blessing, and we did. And that's why we did the Buff hall show show with Minor Threat from dc, Boston, ssd, New York and Philly to bring everybody together in a nice hardcore love fest.

[Beau]

And the gathering of the tribes.

[Nancy Burrell]

The gathering of the tribes.

[Beau]

That's right. That's what.

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah.

[Beau]

Videos is. Is watching guys in SSD shirts, like, obvious Boston guys, seeing Minor Threat play the song Straight Edge and just, like, watching this happen.

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah.

[Beau]

You know, it's one of. It's.

[Colin]

You book that.

[Nancy Burrell]

I. I booked that. Yeah.

[Beau]

With.

[Nancy Burrell]

With Allison and.

[Beau]

And.

[Nancy Burrell]

And Ron Thatcher. Yeah. And.

[Beau]

And didn't Ian get hit by a car?

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah, that. That night. So. So Al. You know, Al had a good job at GE at the time. He was a machinist before he was an engineer, and he had a nice fan, and he had nice equipment, you know, that he worked very hard, hard to get. And he. So when I booked this show, he said, don't bring me into a war zone. And I was like, it'll be fine. It'll be fine. You know, and so then he came and picked me at Philly to. Camden is just over the bridge. Like, Boston. Cambridge. You know, it's like just a ride over the bridge. And so he picked me up at my apartment, and all the Boston crew guys were in the back. And, you know, as we're driving through Cambridge. Camden.

[Beau]

I'm sorry, I've always wondered how many could fit in that van. How many guys were back there.

[Nancy Burrell]

Oh, back that day? Like, 13.

[Beau]

Is that with equipment back there, too?

[Nancy Burrell]

That's with equipment, yeah.

[Beau]

And. And you're sitting shotgun.

[Nancy Burrell]

And I'm sitting shotgun.

[Beau]

That's right.

[Nancy Burrell]

I think with Tony Perez was sitting next to me, like, sharing a chair with me.

[Beau]

Yeah.

[Nancy Burrell]

And. And, you know, as we're driving to Camden now, Camden then and now was, like, one of the most dangerous places in the country. Most violent places, but, like, everywhere was violent. So, like, I was jaded, you know, and so, you know, we're driving down the street and everything's, like, blighted. And, you know, I was like, where's this place, you know, so we pull. We pull up to the club. I got out to find out where to load the equipment in. And at. After I crossed the street, all of a sudden, I heard this car come. Like, Ian came out and went to the driver's side window to talk to Al. And I heard this car coming down the street really fast. And I looked, you know, and the driver had, like, crazy dreads, and his. His eyes just were like. I was like, this dude's not stopping. He's not stopping. And he hit Al's van head on. And Ian, you know, was a skater, so he jumped, you know, he held onto the top Al's van and pulled himself. Thank God he did, or he would have been dead, you know, but it. It clipped his. His sneakers right off, you know, Sneakers right off his feet. He had a big, you know, knot on the back of his calf on his head. And so, you know, the. There were some kids.

[Colin]

So is Al, like, does he have, like, a Homer Simpson moment where he's.

[Nancy Burrell]

Like, yeah, he didn't really say anything to me because we were still in the beginning stages of love, you know, so he didn't really say anything to me. But, you know, his van was so damaged that they had to lift it up and, like, put it over to the sidewalk, you know, that you couldn't. He couldn't drive it, you know? And so they. Somebody took me into the hospital. And then I go inside to find Allison, and she's sitting at the bar with, like, 12 of the scariest black biker dudes I ever saw. They look like something out of a comic strip, you know, like it was. Was. And I'm like, can I talk to you for one minute? You know, so she comes over. I'm like, what's up? And she's like, well, kids were getting jumped and beaten up, you know, on the way to the. To the show. And these guys, the Ghetto Riders, they were division of the Atlantic City Wheels of Soul. They had their clubhouse next door, and they demanded entry. And Allison was very beautiful and very charming and very smart, and she won those guys over like that. And so they put it the word.

[Colin]

Out on the Ghetto Rider.

[Nancy Burrell]

The Ghetto Riders, they were caught. They still exist to this day.

[Beau]

Oh, all right.

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah. And the Wheels of Soldiers, too. So they. They put the word out on the street that Buff hall was a Ghetto Riders party that night. And then the attack stopped.

[Beau]

Wow.

[Nancy Burrell]

And. And the guys told us. They said, we. If you stay inside, we can protect you, but if you go outside, we can't, you know. So at one point it got so hot in there that I went outside and I. I remember somebody threw like a big D battery at me and it hit me right in the ribs and I thought I got shot. I was like, you know, hit me so hard, you know, I was like, oh, took my breath away, you know. And I was like, fuck, I got shot.

[Colin]

They whipped that thing.

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah, yeah. And then I realized, you know, I looked down and I saw it was a battery in the. Then I went back inside. I didn't go out again, but like, then we didn't know what to do. So I think like. And there was, there was questions about whether the show would go on because I think some of the guys in Minor Threat were like, get in the van and go home. You know, like, you know, fuck this, you know. But on the other hand, I think it upped the energy for every band that played that night because I have. That is one of the. That is the best hardcore show I've ever, ever seen in my life. And I would argue that it's probably one of the top five of all time that, you know, in existence, you know, they.

[Colin]

Many agree just from seeing the video.

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah, I mean everybody, every band bought their, brought their A game and I even like, you know, Agnostic Front was so new, you know, and, and you know, not that good, you know, but still like, you know, the energy was there and that, you know, that John Watson was singing for them back then and it was just, you know, and so then we had to figure out what we were going to do with Al's van because we weren't going to leave it. It'd be stripped for parts, but in hours, you know. So I called my dad and I said, you know, I called from the offices of Buffalo and I said, dad, my boyfriend from Boston, he's like your boyfriend from Boston. They, you know, they didn't know what I was doing, you know. So I said, yeah, you know, he drove down here. He, you know, got into accident and my dad was really cool. Like, my dad was tough, you know, he. He was tough, but he was cool. That night he said, tow the van to our house in the suburbs and I'll take care of it. And so I gave my keys to the crew and somebody drove them to my little studio apartment in Philly and Al and I rode with the tow truck driver to my parents house. And that's, you know, Al met my parents for the first time that night, you know, and he had like, he had, he had Gone through the windshield and had, like, a big cut on his head. And he had a shaved head, which nobody back then had unless you were military or psycho, you know, and so. But my parents were cool. They were nice, and they took care.

[Beau]

Gathering of the tribes. Indeed, in ways that one.

[Nancy Burrell]

And so my parents took care of it, which really impressed Al. Like, he was like, Lasagna was good. Yeah. He was like. I remember my mom gave him orange juice with ice cubes in it. And he just thought that was the weirdest thing ever, you know, It's a little crazy. Yeah, it's a little weird. But she just, you know, she knew he was, you know, hot and she wanted to make it, you know, but. Yeah, so. And I remember him saying, like, he knew that, you know, that he wanted to be with me even more than. Because he knew I came from good people, you know, that we're gonna. And they fixed. They did. They fixed his van. He came down a little while later and got it. And, you know, we took. We rode. The tow truck driver was cool. He dropped us off at. At my apartment. And then, you know, it was like a Boston crew rug all over my floor. I think Al and I had to sleep in the bathtub or something. You know, it was. There was no room. I lived in a studio apartment, you know, a little tiny thing. But that show was epic. And. And remains to be, you know, one of the five. All time. Yeah, I would say. Yeah, definitely.

[Beau]

Wow.

[Colin]

You. You mentioned, you know, kind of being out of hardcore, but by 1980.

[Nancy Burrell]

85. Yeah.

[Beau]

Which for a lot of people, that's when it started.

[Nancy Burrell]

I know.

[Colin]

Marks this gigantic.

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah.

[Colin]

Like the boom. The boom begins and. And really never ends.

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah. For me, all the bands that I liked broke up, and I didn't really like any of the new ones.

[Colin]

Because they were new or just because they weren't your bands.

[Nancy Burrell]

You know, they're just like, name a band. I just didn't like them. You know, Metallica. I don't think I knew Underdog then, you know, because I heard Underdog and I thought they had, like, a little bit of a bad brain sensibility. So I did like them, definitely, you know, but, like, I didn't like Slap Shot, Killing Time, you know, I didn't like those. Yeah.

[Beau]

You didn't like Slap Shot?

[Nancy Burrell]

No, I. I thought, like, Choke sort of took Al's Persona and, you know, I don't. You know, I didn't. I thought it was phony. I didn't. I didn't like it. You know, in the book. And I want to go on the record of saying that. Yeah, I freaking love Steve. I love Mark, and I love Choke back then, too. You know, Like, I did like those guys, but I just, you know, I wasn't seeing it. And it seemed like hardcore was getting, like, kind of, like, aggro and stupid, and it just, you know, I aged out, I guess. You know, Like, I just didn't really like it. And. And then I didn't get excited about another band until Guns N Roses came on the scene. And then I was a huge guy. Guns N Roses fan.

[Beau]

So would you say. I like how you're saying this because you're saying you aged out.

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah.

[Beau]

You don't subscribe to the idea that it died or that it ended.

[Nancy Burrell]

No, no. I mean, I don't think it's ended to this day. You know, look at us. Like. Yeah, and I went to, you know, I went to Turnstile and like, 50. When you post this, 50 million people will be on like, ah, Turnstile's not hardcore, you know, like. Because you know that that's what happens. But, yeah, but I will tell you, I have not seen that energy since 1982, you know, like, you know, I'm watching it from, you know, the stage, looking out at the. The crowd and. And, man, that band is good. I have not seen a band that tight. You know, they all look like they're 15, you know, and. And they're just so freaking. The drummer is like. He had to have, like, drums. He had to have drums replaced during the night because he hit him so hard. They freaking just disintegrated, you know, Got.

[Colin]

Sam Boss and working for him.

[Nancy Burrell]

Right, right. And.

[Colin]

And.

[Nancy Burrell]

And Meg, you know, is like this little doll who's, like, so good and she loves SSD and she's the one that hooked it up. So. So anyway, so the article comes. An article comes out in the New Yorker. Did you guys see that?

[Beau]

Probably, yeah.

[Nancy Burrell]

Now, the New Yorker. As an English teacher, you know, the New Yorker is like my. You know, I love the New Yorker. I've been reading it for decades and everything. So to be in the New Yorker is just unbelievable. So this guy, you know, who knows a lot about music, he wrote, like, and then had, like, a silly title, like, Hardcore is Not Mean Anymore or something. I can't remember the exact thing, but it first talks about Al and me and it mentions my book and everything. And then it goes into Turnstile and they interview Meg and they use this great line where they say, like, she gives a beryllian response. And I just freaking love that, you know, that my heart, you know, and it came out after Al died, so it was really special to me. So I read it, you know, and I listened to. You know, I listened to Turnstile. I was like, oh, yeah, they're pretty good. And I saw, like, their tiny desk thing, which I thought was amazing, you know, But Chris Foley, who's the drummer of ssd, he went down a rabbit hole, and he just really, you know, he just really got into Turnstile, and so he was the one. And Chris is really kind of quiet and shy, and this was definitely out of his comfort zone. But he got Meg's email and asked her for tickets, and. And, you know, that. That is just so not Chris, you know, that's so not Chris. And so he had asked me, you know, do you want to go to Turnstile? And I think tickets were, like, $90. And, you know, I was like, no. You know, and then he was like, well, what if I can get, you know, tickets? And I was like, well, yeah, I'll go then.

[Beau]

Sure.

[Nancy Burrell]

And. And so I had, you know, know, I talk too much. I feel.

[Colin]

No, this is why we're here.

[Beau]

This is for you to talk.

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah. So I. As I told you, like, I'm in this. This really cool building, you know, it's like this bougie building, and it's really nice, and everybody's smart, and they're doctors, and they're, you know, physical therapists and lawyers, and, like, you know, there's no trumpers here. And it's like, I'm in heaven, you know, I'm in absolute heaven. And the people are really nice to me. I am by far the oldest person in this building, you know, and so one night, it was like, game night. We're playing game night, you know, and everybody's yelling and screaming. It's like, my turn to get the clue. And I'm like, you guys, you got to be quiet, because my husband was in a punk rock band, and I can't hear. And this guy that was sitting next to me was like, you like punk rock? And he's like, 35, you know, and. And I said, yeah. You know, my husband's. And we start talk and everything, and he likes, like, who got ghazi? So I'm like, I'm gonna blow your mind right now. And I call up Ian's picture on our rooftop, and he's like, I can't believe, like, Ian was in this building, you know, and so I didn't want to go To Turnstile. Like, Chris said that he could get us tickets. We knew we had tickets. Body want to go by myself. I didn't want to, you know, go all the way to Revere and back at night, you know, by myself. I'm just too freaking old for that, you know? So I asked Brian, the guy that I met, I was like, hey, you want to go to Turnstile? And he was like, hell yeah. You know, that's incredible. Yeah, you know, he and I went. And he's from Scranton, Pennsylvania, so he has been to shows before, but not backstage. And like, that night was just every single band. Speed was amazing. Mannequin Pussy was amazing. And his turnstile was just. We just had the best day, you know, when we got there, we found out we had backstage passes. We didn't know that, but they gave it and they treated us. They were the most down to earth, nicest people that you could ever want to meet. Like, I just can't believe how.

[Colin]

Been the case that.

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah, we've.

[Beau]

We have both toured with that band back when they played before. Both of our bands.

[Colin]

Wow.

[Beau]

Before they were the biggest band in the world. And they've not changed. They've always.

[Nancy Burrell]

They're just so nice. Like, I just. I couldn't believe how nice they were. And then Atiba Jefferson was there and like, do you know him? He's the. He's a photographer and he did, you know, if you've ever seen the Kobe Bryant.

[Colin]

Kobe, He's. He is, yeah.

[Nancy Burrell]

With the. Back to back with his daughter and everything. Like, he's a big basketball, skateboard and. And. And, you know, punk hardcore photographer.

[Beau]

Wow.

[Nancy Burrell]

And, you know, so he will. He goes by me and he's like, Nancy Burrell, big fan. And I'm like, forgettina Jefferson, you know, like, oh, my God. You know, so I could have talked that guy's ear off all night, you know, like, so he's like, I. You know, we were ready to leave, you know, because we weren't. We don't want to bother the band any more than we already did, you know, but he's like, oh, no, you got to come back. You know, and so then we're like, it was so much fun. It was probably like the most fun I've had in 15 years.

[Colin]

You know, Keep coming.

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah. So then.

[Colin]

Keep on coming.

[Nancy Burrell]

So then Judge and that show was there. And so then I called Brian up and I'm like, you know, you want to go to see Judge? And he was like, yeah, hell yeah. Yeah. You know, I give him a One pager before we went, like, this person is here. And they played with this band and this person is, you know, like, you know, so that he. He knew who everybody was before we went. And that was a great show. And Judge was amazing.

[Beau]

And I did Judge play Youth of Today Will Play Glue. Did Judge play an ssd?

[Nancy Burrell]

Judge played. Judge played Boiling Point. And Mike, before he played, he said, you know, we're going to play this song because Nancy Burrell is in the audience. And he said, you know, I can't tell you what Al Barrel meant to me, you know, and I'm balling, of.

[Beau]

Course, you know, this is making me choke up. Yeah.

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah. You know, and I was. I was. You know, it really meant a lot to me that. That, you know, he did that. So, you know, we had a great time. I had to teach that night, you know, because I still teach one college, two college classes at Emanuel College. And so I had to teach that night, you know, so I was like. But we went over and we, you know, I bought them vegan cupcakes and. Yeah, and I got to see Kelly, you know, Kelly108 and Kate108, and, you know, it was just. It was a really fun night. So now we're going to Impact Driver because they're from Philly and the girl who's playing guitar for them now is a friend of mine. And so they're playing in Boston. So I'm going to see them on the 8th, I think it is. And then of course, we're going to see Agnostic Front in December, so.

[Beau]

Right.

[Colin]

You gotta come. I'm playing December, the. For the children thing.

[Beau]

Yeah. Oh, you guys, it's.

[Colin]

I. Somewhere.

[Beau]

It's in Boston.

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah, but when is it?

[Colin]

December 6th, I think. 5th and 6th.

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah, I might be able to do that. Yeah. Come on out, because I think they're December 4th. They're Thursday. Are you.

[Colin]

I think we're Sunday.

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah. It's not out of my price point, is it?

[Colin]

No, you don't have a price point. I got you.

[Nancy Burrell]

Oh, you got me. Okay, then that's good. You gotta get Brian, too. You gotta get my physical therapist friend. Okay. You got Brian. Okay.

[Colin]

You're out of hardcore 85. But what hardcore becomes 88. And on through the 90s, Straight Edge evolves into this completely different thing. And I know that there are negatives there to. Too many.

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah.

[Colin]

But like, the positives so vastly outweigh it and the amount of people's lives it's touched.

[Nancy Burrell]

Are.

[Colin]

Are you proud of that? Was Al proud of that.

[Nancy Burrell]

I mean, it's. It's not my thing to claim. So I, you know, you're right there.

[Colin]

You're on the other arm, but that's.

[Nancy Burrell]

You know, that's Al and that's, you know, I think, you know, I think, you know, Al in the book, in the SSD book, you know, when I was in interviewing Al and the band about it, I remember Al, you know, telling a story about a. A wrestler. What's his name? CM Punk or something like that. Yeah, yeah. Saying, you know, talking about Straight Edge. And that's when Al realized this is a cultural phenomenon that'll live forever. And that made him really proud. But I think what made Al proudest was emails from people that. That said, you saved my life, or Straight Edge saved my life, you know, and I think that that made him really, you know, happy that he had that alternative, you know, because that's all he wanted was an alternative to the drinking and stuff that most high school kids go. Go through.

[Colin]

So there's that. There's never a time where you're more influenced to participate in something.

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah, yeah.

[Colin]

When I personally, personally needed an outside voice to guide me. So, yeah, you.

[Nancy Burrell]

You guys both Straight Edge.

[Colin]

Yes.

[Nancy Burrell]

That's awesome.

[Colin]

So thank you, Al.

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah.

[Beau]

Yeah, very much so. What I was gonna ask about, though was. Was SSD put out Power. There was. There was the hard rock thing. And I'm just. I. No one ever really talks about that record. No, no one really talks. Well, enough said. All right, There we go.

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah. And that is more for me. Wow. So. So here's. Here's about power, and it's not about the music or the record. You know, they were getting bootlegged, you know, out the ass, you know. And so, you know, I remember when Al met up with the guys from Youth Today, you know, for the very first time when he met him for the first time. That was only like two years ago. And, you know, he. He confronted them about that because they were the ones that were supposedly had done that. The very first bootleg. They were bootlegged many times, but the very first bootlegging, the Ex Claim version of. Of, you know, the one that was. It wasn't X. It was Ex Claim was supposedly done by the youth of today guys. You know, that's. That was the rumor, you know, and.

[Colin]

So they talked about it.

[Nancy Burrell]

They talked about that. Yeah. And. And so the reason. Reason that they did po, you know, the power record was because they wanted to stop bootleggers, you know, like, because now here's all the music, you know, and now, you know, whatever. But working with Curtis was a huge mistake. And Curtis kept the tapes or doesn't realize that he has the tapes. I don't know what the real story is, but he doesn't have such a great reputation for treating Bam bands or paying bands or anything like that, you know, and so that sort of left a bad taste in both my mouth and Al's mouth, You know, where we were really, you know, we asked when Trust was going to do the records. We, you know, we didn't see any money from Power, you know, I think he said right when. When we were starting to talk to Trust, he sent thousand dollar checks to everybody in the band. And Al wouldn't cash his because he was like, this is gonna make him think that he has the rights to this record and he doesn't, you know, wow. And so he wouldn't return those tapes. And I even reached out to him and I said, listen, you know, Al sick, you know, like, we want this record to come out. Give us the. The tapes back, you know, and he wouldn't. And, you know, maybe he doesn't realize he still has him. Who the hell knows? I don't know know. But I thought it was pretty shitty, you know, so that's why it left a bad taste in my mouth. The Power record, you know, So I was just so pumped that, you know, and a lot of people had wanted to do the records, you know, like, over the years. But Al was very discerning and I'm really glad that he was because he picked the right people to put this record out. I could not be happier with then working with Trust Records. Like, they are incredible. Joe, Nelson, Matt, they are straight up good human beings, you know, And Joe has been very, very good to me. He got my niece and I good tickets to see Rage against the Machine. He got Norman Reedus to talk to my Walking Dead class, you know.

[Beau]

Wow. You have a class about Walking Dead?

[Nancy Burrell]

I do, yeah. I did, yeah.

[Beau]

Wow.

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah. That's another whole, like it's nine, ten, you know, like. Yeah, yeah. And. And we had zoomed with Shane if you know the characters. John Bernthal from Punisher.

[Beau]

That's my favorite character is John Bernthal's character.

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah. So we had gotten him and. And zoomed with him during Hybrid Covid where I had like, kids on my screen and kids in the. I don't know how we did it, you know. That was insane.

[Colin]

It's a miracle.

[Nancy Burrell]

It's a miracle. Yeah, it was crazy. But but we had zoomed with him, and that was really cool. And he gave us some inside baseball about the show, and it was really neat. But every kid that took the class loved Daryl Dixon. Like, his trajectory from the racist, you know, kind of punk that he was to be in. A valuable and contributing member to the. To the group. And everything was just something that my students really connected with. And I know that dude like punk rock. You know, I know he liked hardcore. He was. You know, he had Minor Threat shirts. And one time I saw an interview with him with, like, a little kid, and he said, like, yeah, Ian sends me records. So I call Ian, and I'm like, yo, you know Norman Reedus? He's like, no, I don't know that dude. You know, like. And so.

[Colin]

So he buys stuff from Discord.

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah, exactly. And so. Yeah. And then one time, Paris Mayhew posted a picture of him with Norman Reedus. So I reached out to Paris, and I was like, yo, you know Norman Reedus. You know, send them. I wrote an article about the class for Huffington Post, and he sent it to Norman, and Norman retweeted it, and, like, it, you know, blew up really big. But I just want him to zoom with the class, and I just couldn't seem to make it happen. And I hate that because I always make shit happen, you know, and my kids count on me. Me for that. So seven days before I retired, Joe Nelson got Norman Reedus to zoom with my class. And so it was like the most epic mic drop walking out the door, you know, like, see you later. Yeah, you go.

[Colin]

I'm the goat.

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah. I am the goat. Yeah. I got Norman Reese.

[Colin]

You could not have gotten out of. Of teaching at a better time.

[Nancy Burrell]

Yes, absolutely. 100%.

[Beau]

Wow.

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah, it's bad post.

[Colin]

Covid.

[Beau]

Covid.

[Colin]

AI.

[Beau]

Yeah, it's.

[Colin]

It's over.

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah, it's, you know, education's over. Yeah. My school, you know, they didn't really have an attendance policy, and they didn't want to read whole books anymore. And I just. That was. Really. Went fundamentally against my educational philosophy. And I just was like, I. You know, I left a little early, but thank you. Thank God I did because Al and I got to spend some good quality time together before he got, you know, really, you know, sick. And then, you know, we had, like, nine, ten months together that we just had, like, second honeymoon, you know, like, right. Right after I retired, he almost died right then. He had a bowel obstruction, and he could not eat or drink for two months. He could not even have so much as an ice chip, you know, it was awful. It was terrible. And he was in the hospital. Hospital for over a month, and then this doctor, this brilliant, amazing doctor did a surgery on him, and then he was fine. He could eat again. And so we just.

[Beau]

The first thing he ate. Nancy, what was the first real pasta?

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah, pasta. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so we went to Italy in Boston and stuff. Yeah. And. And, you know, our eating habits were bad and probably contributory, you know, and that's why once I moved over here and left to my own devices, you know, I went vegan. And, you know, Glenn Friedman's coaching me, but, yeah, we were able to have some time together. So I retired at a really good time, but I'm glad to be out, like I said, still have a lot of friends teaching, and, you know, they just tell me these stories, and I'm like, oh, my God. You know, I couldn't. I couldn't do. I never had, you know, any problems with kids. All my problems were with the adults. You know, the kids were great. The kids would. The kids had me howling. You know, they were just. They were just amazing, so.

[Colin]

They'll get you, man.

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah.

[Colin]

They're the realest people in your life.

[Nancy Burrell]

They are. They are. Yeah. You know. Yes. So just the best.

[Beau]

Nancy, let me ask you that. We're fast forwarding a little bit. I did. I had the opportunity. I. I spoke with Al a little bit over Twitter a couple times over the span of a few months. He was. He. You know, he was sick, but we. We spoke. He told me he. He liked this podcast specifically, and that he had checked it out, which meant a lot to both of us.

[Nancy Burrell]

Yep.

[Beau]

And he did. He sent me a book. And I've. I've always wondered, and I want you to be brutally honest with me. Did you write the light glue like crew part?

[Nancy Burrell]

No, that's Al.

[Beau]

That's all him.

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah, that's all him.

[Beau]

And every.

[Nancy Burrell]

And every time before he would write it, he would have to think which one came first. Like glue. Like crew. Like glue. Like.

[Colin]

That's incredible.

[Beau]

Well, that's beautiful.

[Colin]

That's.

[Nancy Burrell]

That's straight up Al's. Al's Chicken scroll, you know?

[Beau]

Yeah. But it. You know, I'm very grateful to have gotten even. Even a little bit. And obviously, had. Had things turned out differently, we would have loved to have him on both of you, honestly, for the opportunity of that.

[Nancy Burrell]

So then he would have loved it. You know, he was. You know, he was very podcast shy, and he would, you know, he Would like a lot of anxiety before he had, you know, the things. And then I was not, you know, I was not allowed to be anywhere here.

[Beau]

I was going to ask our. Our friend Pat from have Heart had him on.

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah.

[Beau]

In person interview. You weren't. You weren't present.

[Colin]

The trust records.

[Beau]

A natural on that.

[Colin]

He was great interview.

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah. He. But I would always be like, you know, teasing him. Like, I'd be like, you're going to be doing it and I'm going to be good. And he's like, get in the other room.

[Colin]

You know, I do think it's important to note just to say to. To you that, like, to us, Al's legacy not only is the incredible music he made Straight Edge, but like, his kindness and warmth to the generations that came after is immediately struck us and. And impacted us.

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah. And I think social media allowed him to show that side of him that people didn't. You know, a lot of people had strong opinions about Al, but they didn't know. Know him. And. And through social media, people got to see how caring and kind he was and also how freaking weirdly funny he was. He was very funny, you know. Oh, my God. Like, I. I still have his phone and. And so I'm trying to go through it to, like, delete stuff so that I can download it. And I mean, he just put his face on everyone and everything, and it's hilarious. And he was just. Just like. Like, that's what made our marriage, I think, so good for 43 years, was that we just. He just cracked me up. We cracked each other up. Like, we were just. He was hilarious, you know. Are you guys on Facebook?

[Colin]

Yeah, very little.

[Beau]

I try not to be.

[Nancy Burrell]

I tell more of the, you know, the stories about Al on Facebook than I do on Instagram. Instagram. Like, but yesterday I posted like, a memory of Al that where he said he had called me at work and he said, I'm in so much traffic. I knew I shouldn't have listened to you about this. And I'm like, what are you talking about? I'm at work. And he's like, I heard you in my head telling me to go this way.

[Beau]

That's good.

[Nancy Burrell]

And there was another time. There was another time where he came to pick me up at work and he was on the phone with his doctor at the time. This is pre cancer, but. But post back surgeries. And so he was on the phone with this doctor and we had our dog, Flippy, and Flippy was sitting on the passenger side, so he, you know, Stopped in front of the school, and I opened the door and I threw my bags in, and I. I realized I forgot something. And so I said, I got to go back inside and get something. And I closed the door and I went inside to get it. And when I came out, he was gone. And. And so I was like, what the hell? Did a cop come and make him leave? Like, where the hell did he go? And so I was just kind of standing there, and then all of a sudden, he came bombing around the corner, you know, like, at a high speed. And he was like, oh, my God, Thank God you're here. He goes, I got halfway home and looked over and you weren't there. And I thought you fell out, and I ran over you. So he's just like, there's nobody. There was just nobody like him, you know, he was just funny even. You know, even when he was, like, on his literal deathbed, you know, I had said to him, and I don't want to start crying, but I had said to him, al, you know, come back with Flippy and see me in my dreams. You know, Come back and see me. And he said, you know, he's, like, laying there. He's just like, yeah, I don't know if I can do that, you know? Well, try, you know.

[Colin]

Come on.

[Nancy Burrell]

He's like, yeah, I don't know how to do that. I don't know, you know, And I'm like, well, figure it out, you know, and come back and visit me, you know?

[Colin]

That's beautiful.

[Nancy Burrell]

Well, I hope.

[Beau]

I hope the stories and the. The people like us who told you what an impact you and him have had on all of us, I hope that is a little bit of him visiting you.

[Nancy Burrell]

It is. It absolutely is. And he does visit me, you know, Like, I got some unbelievable signs that are indisputable that.

[Colin]

Talk to me.

[Beau]

You.

[Nancy Burrell]

You want to know. Okay, but, like, they're weird. They're weird. And, like, let me just tell you, like, I am a very black and white person. I don't believe in that stuff, you know, that much. Maybe as I got a little older, I started maybe thinking that there was a little more to it, but I. You know, I'm not. Oh, I smelled her perfume or the lights flickered. Like, that's not who I am. But after my parents died, where I grew up in the suburbs, we had a lot of those mourning doves, you know, those doves that make that, like, weird sound. Okay. And I never saw mourning doves in Boston. We lived. We lived right on the ocean they don't, you know, they're not like ocean birds, you know, but we have seagulls, you know. Sure. But right after my father. My mother was already dead and my father died, I started seeing these two little mourning doves and hearing them right outside my house all the time. And so my nephew came to visit me in the dead of winter. And we went out back, like, right where the ocean is, and those two birds were in, like, a planter in the dead of winter. And so I was like, that's mom and dad. And dad. That's mom and dad. So when Al died, maybe two or three days after he died, I looked out on the balcony that overlooked the ocean, and there was the most giant mourning dove you have ever seen in your life. And they're not big. It was huge. It was jacked. It was, you know, what do my students call it? They have a name for it. I can't remember what it is. You know, they're like. But he, you know, this was a.

[Colin]

A big ass beryllion.

[Nancy Burrell]

The Beryllian bird. Yeah. Yes, it was a Beryllian bird. And I. So I looked at it and I said, that's freaking out. So I said, if you're Al, look at me. And it turned around and looked me right in the eye. I took a picture of it.

[Beau]

Wow.

[Nancy Burrell]

So I was like, oh, my God. So that made me feel really good. So now I move here to. To Boston, and I'm six floors up. Oh, okay. And I'm in the city. And the very first day, the day after I move in, I'm like, futzing around the house and I hear a morning dove. And it sounds like it's in the house with me. And I'm like, there's no way there's a morning dove here. There's no way that it's up here six floors. So I'm running from room to room, trying to figure out where it is. And it was right in my living room, right on my windowsill. The big jacked morning dove again. Diesel. That was what my kids will say, the diesel, you know, brilliant. It was huge. And it was, you know, facing outward, you know, and so I said, if you're Al, look at me. And it turned around and looked me right in the eye. And I snapped its picture and. And my best friend blew it up and put it in a frame for me. There's no way you can tell me that wasn't him.

[Colin]

Do you. Unbelievable.

[Beau]

Do you think it was the same bird? Bird in both ones?

[Nancy Burrell]

It looked like the same bird. If I showed you, you know, if I sent you tomorrow in an email, the two pictures, you'd be like, it's, it's an unusually large bird, they're just not that big, you know, and, and the fact that I said, look at me both times and it like completely turned its head around and looked at me.

[Beau]

Wow.

[Nancy Burrell]

You know, makes me think that that.

[Beau]

Was, you know, he figured it out.

[Colin]

Figured it out.

[Beau]

He's got to get slippy and figured it out.

[Nancy Burrell]

Exactly. And so, and I've had some dreams and stuff and there's been like weird signs. Like there was nobody that loved Christmas more than Al even. This is my 63 year old man. You know, he would put up like giant Grinch balloons in front, in front of our house. Even when we lived in an apartment, he had it on a bat on the balcony, you know, big Homer Simpson Santa and a big Grinch. And I remember one of my students was like, that was your house? My parents used to drive me down to look at that when I was a little kid.

[Beau]

Wow.

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah.

[Colin]

The king of Christmas.

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah, he loved Christmas. And so I still go to the hairdresser out in Revere. And so the last time I went and called, you know, I never got a driver's license and so I called an Uber to pick me up and I got in the Uber and in the back of the Uber there was a Grinch on the floor. Too random not to be a sign.

[Colin]

He put that there.

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah, yeah.

[Colin]

Nancy, we, we cannot thank you enough for joining us today.

[Beau]

I hope I have one more. I got one more. Please hit me in the American hardcore documentary. Al is in a studio, it looks.

[Nancy Burrell]

Like, and yeah, that's his mother's basement. He turned it into a studio. Yeah.

[Beau]

Were you there during.

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah, you can see me. I'm. I'm in it because I'm the one that when the doorbell rings, I go up and I answer it and I tell him it's Springer.

[Beau]

You know, I have wondered that since that movie, that documentary came out if that was you. Because his reaction is so good.

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah. And that, that, you know, that kind of. I remember being a little bit upset about that movie because I thought they were there when they interviewed me, that they were going to ask me about Philly and the roots of hardcore interviews. Philly, which, you know, I was part of, you know, and they were just talking to me as the wife of somebody, you know, like. But again, they could not be expected to know all the excruciating minutia of every Single city. But I thought they did Philly kind of dirty, you know, in their. In their.

[Colin]

But that. I mean, your book exists now.

[Nancy Burrell]

Yes. And that's, you know, that's one of the things and I. Do you know who might get her is. Do you know Mike?

[Colin]

Of course.

[Beau]

Yeah.

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah. And Mike Gitter came and visited us one time and he made. He said something to me that made me so happy. He told me that after my book came out, the Philly bands, they started tracking, you know, like, people started getting their. Their records and stuff. And that made me so happy because, you know, Philly was a scrappy city and people did not have money the way some bands did in other cities. You know, like, they didn't have money for records. They didn't have money to. For bands and stuff like that. And so, you know, they weren't out there as much as. And so the fact that some of these bands are, you know, getting. And Joe Nelson told me, and now that I'm saying it in your show, he's gonna have to follow through that. He's gonna do like a Philly compilation, a Philly movie, a Philly, like, you know, because Philly was like, you know, some really, you know, if you read my book, like, some crazy shit happened in Philly that. That, you know, it's just, you know, Philly was a, you know, was a stop for almost every band. And when they did, it was always a story.

[Colin]

So incredible. Nancy, thank you so much for joining us.

[Nancy Burrell]

You bet. Thank you.

[Colin]

May have felt like you left this community in 1985, but, oh, I'm back, you know. You're fully back. We welcome, you know.

[Nancy Burrell]

And I have to say, you know, the punk rock community is so freaking good to me, you know, Like, I could not have gotten. And I would have. I would have jumped in the ocean, you know, if not for my friends. All my friends. Almost all my friends, except a handful, are punk rock people. You know, my best friend isn't. Two of my best friends aren't. But most of them came from punk rock and they're there for me. Like Jamie and Angie and Jackie. And they're just Bridget and Mary, they're just, you know, they're all still there for me. Even Anastas checks in with me.

[Beau]

It's good to know that. That Jamie's a good guy, because every.

[Nancy Burrell]

Picture, the best guy, every picture you.

[Beau]

Ever see of him, he's smiling and just having the best time of his life. And I want that guy to be.

[Nancy Burrell]

A good guy, you know, he is the best guy. I got him a job teaching at my school. So he's a. You know, he teaches with me. And he is. You know, you couldn't get better people than him and his wife. They're just amazing, amazing human beings.

[Colin]

Love to hear it, much like you, Nancy.

[Beau]

Thank you, Nancy.

[Colin]

Thank you so much for joining us.

[Beau]

Thank you so, so much for taking.

[Nancy Burrell]

Thank you for having me. I really apprec It.

[Beau]

Absolutely.

[Nancy Burrell]

I'll let you know the fallout when I post it in the hardcore groups.

[Colin]

Yeah, no, we got you. I'm not holding. Your coat is out. Now you can. You can get it physically. You can get it digitally. Maybe we'll. Maybe we'll get an audiobook going, huh?

[Nancy Burrell]

Right? And we need those. We need. We still have some of the ssd. How much art books left? A handful of those are left. And then my Adventures of a Punk Rock Teachers coming out, hopefully next year. Yeah, there it is.

[Beau]

Got it.

[Nancy Burrell]

And that's funny. So it's funny that you showed the handwriting of Al.

[Beau]

Yeah.

[Nancy Burrell]

Because Chris Minicucci and I wanted Al handwriting for the. Can you take in the COVID Yeah. And, you know, we.

[Beau]

And.

[Nancy Burrell]

But Al was like, no, no, I don't want that because my handwriting sucks. And so, you know, we did a similar thing. Yeah.

[Beau]

Great.

[Colin]

Thank you so much. We hope you all enjoy this as much as we have. Truly an unbelievable conversation with a. With a legend. A pop.

[Nancy Burrell]

Thank you so much. I appreciate it. When will this be up?

[Colin]

This will be up November 13th.

[Nancy Burrell]

Nice. Nice. All right. Thank you so much for having me. Keep in touch and, you know, hit me up about that show. Cause I'm coming.

[Colin]

I got you. I'm gonna send it to you right now.

[Nancy Burrell]

Yeah, I'm coming to that. Yeah. All right, have fun. Bye, guys. Bye, you guys.

[Colin]

Thank you all for watching.

[Nancy Burrell]

See you next time. Bye. Bye.

[Colin]

Bye. This episode is brought to you by Mad Vintage.