Patrick Walker of WARNING & 40 Watt Sun’s First Ever Podcast Interview

Summary

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HardLore Podcast: Patrick Walker of WARNING & 40 Watt Sun’s First Ever Podcast Interview

Date: June 25, 2026
Host: Colin Young
Guest: Patrick Walker (Warning, 40 Watt Sun)
Location: Masonic Temple, Detroit

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Episode Overview

In an unprecedented one-on-one episode, HardLore host Colin Young sits down for Patrick Walker's first-ever audio/video interview. Known for his emotionally resonant songwriting with cult doom bands Warning and 40 Watt Sun, Walker discusses his musical origins, formative influences, songwriting process, band histories, the making of iconic records, and the personal philosophies behind his celebrated yet enigmatic career. The conversation is raw, warm, occasionally humorous, and deeply honest, providing rare insight into a notoriously private artist.

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1. Early Life, Musical Discovery, and Influences [02:52–14:58]

• Growing up in Essex/Harlow:
  • Patrick describes his youth in Harlow, Essex, and his early self-guided exploration of music.
• Pop roots:
  • "I fell in love with pop music at a young age and I'm still in love with pop music, you know, as much as anything else." [03:01 – Patrick]
  • Early favorites included Jackson 5 and Michael Jackson, especially songwriter Rod Temperton's work.
• 80s Sophisti-pop:
  • Admits partiality to acts like A-ha and Tears for Fears.
  • "Actually, I can't stand ABBA, but I've always liked those sophisticated pop bands." [03:16 – Patrick]
• Discovery of rock/metal:
  • Exposure to Marillion and Iron Maiden led him toward heavier music.
  • Key moment: borrowing tapes from the library—Marillion's Thieving Magpie becomes a favorite. [05:03]
• Influence of underground and doom:
  • Discovering Cathedral’s first album at age 14.
  • Key bands cited: Saint Vitus, The Obsessed, Revelation, Unorthodox, etc.
• First attempt at the guitar:
  • Started at 15: “I don’t think I could really play until my mid-20s.” [07:54 – Patrick]
  • Songwriting came even later—didn’t consciously consider himself a songwriter until 20s.
• On influences and emotional connection:
  • Cites Tim Buckley and Revelation as foundational for his emotional approach to heavy music.
  • “It was something considered and, and deeply personal and painfully confessional.” [10:41 – Patrick]

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2. Early Career and Formation of Warning [15:25–26:45]

• Meeting Stuart (drummer/founding member) at work and college:
  • “My mother made me get a job...in a plastics factory...it was horrible.” [15:28 – Patrick]
• First musical community & venue:
  • The Square in Harlow: “It felt like a safe place to go to.” [16:41 – Patrick]
• First demo and lineups:
  • “Revelation Looms” demo recorded just after their first show, with Morne and Orange Goblin. [19:15]
• Scene tightness:
  • The UK doom scene was “maybe six bands...it was tight knit and it felt special.” [20:39 – Patrick]
• Motivation:
  • Goal was simply to record a demo and get interviewed in the fanzine "Reflections of Doom." [17:50]

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3. Songwriting Philosophy & Emotional Intent [14:09–14:58, 34:34–35:50]

• On the “depressive” label:
  • “I get a lot of adjectives attached to my music...depressive is the first...if music’s going to be depressive, confrontational or intimidating, I don’t want that. I want...somebody coming and standing beside you.” [14:04–14:58]
• Not performing pain, but connection:
  • Walker expresses discomfort with being called an “actor” in his vocal delivery: “It suggests my singing’s...performative...and it isn’t.” [12:34]
• Evolution of lyrics:
  • Early themes “barely concealed love songs”—later, more direct. [23:18]
• Shift from aggression to melancholy:
  • “Strength to Dream has the last aggressive music I made until the new album.” [24:07]
• On economy in songwriting:
  • “Economy doesn’t necessarily mean shorter. It just means that nothing’s wasted.” [39:56 – Patrick]

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4. Warning: Strength to Dream & Watching From a Distance [23:43–41:56]

• Strength to Dream (1999):
  • "Probably unequivocally a heavy metal album." [24:30 – Patrick]
• Watching From a Distance (2006, and 20th anniversary):
  • Written in under three months prompted by label-set deadline.
  • “To make good work, you need a deadline...without a deadline I never finish anything.” [32:02 – Patrick]
  • “If people are still listening to it in five years, that’s a bonus...the fact there’s a whole new generation listening...is a privilege.” [33:32]
• Production and sound:
  • Iconic drums requested by drummer Stuart: “He kept saying, I want my drums to sound like they’re being played in a cathedral.” [36:12]
• On the bridge in ‘Footprints’:
  • “Getting from A to B...the hardest thing making that song.” [44:00]
  • On emotional performance: “It’s hard to say...sometimes something I haven’t thought about or felt for years...taps you on the shoulder while performing.” [45:54]

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5. 40 Watt Sun: Transition and Artistic Continuity [61:08–68:59]

• Band transition:
  • Chose not to continue Warning with new material: “I didn’t want to be in the same band that I was in when I was 16...I needed to cut...” [60:11]
  • Formed 40 Watt Sun immediately; first LP The Inside Room seen as a natural successor to Watching from a Distance. [61:22]
• Independence and process:
  • Self-releasing and licensing music since Wider Than the Sky, working largely independently. [66:41]
• Wider Than the Sky and later records:
  • “Some of the best songs I’ve written are on it.” [64:38]
  • “It just seemed like the logical and natural successor to the first record.” [67:34]
• Song structure and bridge philosophy:
  • “You say more by doing less a lot of the time, especially on Little Weight...” [68:13 – Host]

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6. Rituals of Shame and Current Era [72:23–83:05]

• New Warning album: Rituals of Shame
  • Return to ‘heavy’ music after 20 years, released June 19, 2026.
  • “I don’t write songs if I’m not making a record...an album is generally very reflective of the time that I made it.” [72:57 – Patrick]
  • Decision to release as Warning was practical (label leverage) and artistic.
  • “The why’s not important. The what is what matters.” [73:55 – Host]
• Songwriting and deadlines:
  • Music for Rituals of Shame was also written in three months, studio booked in advance to force completion. [79:02–79:20]
• Themes: love above grief
  • “It’s rubbish—watching from a distance is about the five stages of grief or some crap like that. It's love and grief. It's always love.” [80:34 – Patrick]
• Live performance and touring
  • Physically and mentally challenging for him now; prefers selective shows and solo sets for sustainability. [55:32–56:29]
  • “With Warning it's challenging...I won't be because I can't do it night after night.” [55:32]
• Band relationships and process
  • Has not spoken to original drummer Stuart in 16 years; creative and personal evolution. [83:10]

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7. Personal Life, Cooking, and Humor [50:41–55:02]

• Passion for cooking and food on tour:
  • “I always say, there's nothing I don't eat.” [51:06]
  • Into Vietnamese food and seafood when in the U.S.
• British cuisine word association:
  • Chicken tikka masala: "Horrible...it's a horrible English variation." [52:11 – Patrick]
  • Scotch eggs: "Wonderful if they're done right." [52:21]
  • Spotted dick: “I'd see a doctor asap, for sure.” [52:32]
• Favorite dish to cook:
  • “I'm very good at making Indian food...I like South Indian cuisine.” [54:57, 55:10]

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8. Personal Philosophy, Legacy, and Spirituality [83:34–84:34, 85:35–end]

• On spirituality and churches:
  • "The easiest answer is that I'm a very hardened atheist...but I love the cultural heritage of the church...I love sacred music, the artwork, scriptures, the parables." [83:34–84:20]
• On ghosts and uncanny experiences:
  • "I've had some uncanny experiences." [85:00]
• Favorite doom metal records:
  • Never Come Silence – Revelation
  • The Road Less Traveled – Penance
  • The Skull – Trouble
  • Asylum – Unorthodox [85:35]
• Defining personal ethos:
  • “I’m not really a collaborator ... I very quickly got fed up with being in a democratic band. I'm a dictator, I'm a song maker. I'm definitely not that. But I've got to have the final say.” [63:29 – Patrick]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “I find it hard to imagine that hunger I must have had to rehearse and play music because that was some trek across town carrying that stuff.” [17:36 – Patrick]
• “I'd love to make short songs...but it's not. I don't have a choice. It's just what I do.” [12:58 – Patrick]
• On ‘Footprints’ bridge:
  Host: “I’ve openly called this the greatest bridge in the history of music.”
  Patrick: “I knew it was good, but I didn’t think anyone would hear it...” [44:30–45:13]
• On watching from a distance:
  “The most you can hope for when you make a record is that it's well received. If people are still listening to it in five years, that's a bonus.” [33:32]
• On new doom:
  • “I don’t follow it anymore. Almost nothing that interests me...all the qualities I fell in love with are almost non-existent.” [56:54–57:15]
• On permanent independence:
  • “I've been an independent, self-supporting musician since then...it's not easy. But what's the alternative?” [66:41, 66:48]
• On love and lyrics:
  Patrick: “It's always love.” [80:35]

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Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• Patrick’s musical beginnings and pop influences – [02:52-05:03]
• Discovering doom/underground & the demo era – [06:21-14:58]
• Formation of Warning – [15:25–17:40]
• Early demos and scene connections – [17:50–21:26]
• Songwriting process and emotional connection – [14:09–14:58], [43:43–44:41]
• Strength to Dream/Watching From a Distance making-of – [23:43–41:56]
• Shift to 40 Watt Sun, artistic philosophy – [61:22–68:59]
• Love vs. grief in songwriting – [80:00–80:36]
• Food, humor & personal interests – [50:41–55:10]
• Current touring, health, and independence – [55:25–56:33], [66:41–66:59]
• Favorite doom records & legacy – [85:35–86:05]

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Episode Highlights

• An intricate, open reflection from Patrick Walker about his musical journey from fandom to cult influence.
• Fascinating honesty about insecurity, deadlines, and the absence of overt ambition in the early years.
• Rare discussion of British cuisine & road food with humor and curiosity.
• Deep dives into creative processes, song structures, record-making philosophy, and the burdens/blessings of cult classic albums.
• Memorable insights into Walker's solitary approach, independence, and emotional intent.

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Closing Thoughts

This episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in the mind behind Warning and 40 Watt Sun, the intersections of music and emotional life, and the realities of art made outside of commercial ambition. Patrick Walker’s humility, candor, and sense of humor make for one of HardLore’s most engaging interviews to date, full of poignant moments, laughter, and musical wisdom.

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Latest Warning Album: Rituals of Shame (Relapse Records, June 19, 2026)
40 Watt Sun: Ongoing solo and select band performances—watch for tour dates.

Transcript

[Host]

Hey, everybody. Thanks so much for joining us this week for this very special, intimate, one on one conversation with the great Patrick walker, warning and 40 watt sun. Now, it's no secret that Warning is one of my favorite bands. Patrick is one of my favorite songwriters, lyricists, vocalists of all time. And not only is this my first Hard Lore episode, that's a one on one interview with a guest, but it is his first video or audio interview ever. It's a very appropriately intimate conversation and I knew almost nothing about him going in. So sit back, relax, and learn with me in real time about the life and work of the great Patrick Walker.

[Interviewer]

Hello, welcome. It's Hard Lore time. How you doing, Bo? What a day we have on the show this week. This is the first ever episode that I'm doing all on my own here, all on my lonesome over here. But it's a very special, very appropriately intimate occasion as I'm joined by someone whose music encapsulates every painful human emotion one can possibly feel. I say that respectfully and with love. One of my favorite songwriters and vocalists of all time. From warning and 40 watt sun, please welcome Mr. Patrick Walker. Thanks for being here.

[Patrick Walker]

Thanks for having me.

[Interviewer]

How you doing today?

[Patrick Walker]

Okay. I'm tired. I've got three days off and I'm looking forward to it.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, good. And thanks for using one of them to be here today.

[Patrick Walker]

Sure.

[Interviewer]

I know it was a bit of a logistical nightmare to get here, but it is, in a way, a geographical miracle that it could have happened at all. You did it. You're a trooper and I really appreciate it. And we're in Detroit, Michigan right now at the beautiful Masonic Temple, Detroit. So thanks for having us, guys. That's a very special place. Patrick's band, 40 Watt sun, happened to be playing in Grand Rapids last night on the eve of Warning's new album, on the post Eve of Beau. It is truly a beautiful thing that we could make this happen. Let's get into it because for someone who's at art I admire so much and have for so long, I know zero about you personally and I'm so excited to learn. I think that's kind of the same for many of your fans. So let's go back in time here. Did you grow up in Essex?

[Patrick Walker]

I did, yeah.

[Interviewer]

Harlow, could you tell me about discovering music, discovering the guitar and how you found extreme music in particular?

[Patrick Walker]

Probably the same as everybody else. You know, I fell in love with pop music at a young age and I'm still in love with pop music, you know, as Much as anything else.

[Interviewer]

Anything in particular that really drew in, like abba, you know, like.

[Patrick Walker]

Well, actually, I can't stand abba, but I think what I've heard people use the term sophista pop. So a lot of those sophisticated pop bands that were of the 80s, mid to late 80s, I suppose, so. Bands like Aha. And of course, Tears for Fears. And then when I was younger than that, before I really knew what pop music was, I heard the Jackson 5 for the first time and Michael Jackson.

[Interviewer]

And are you taking anything from that creatively at the time? Like, is that informing the way.

[Patrick Walker]

Well, everything I've ever enjoyed informs what I do in some respects. Yeah. I think it's important to say that because it's sinking in and it's staying with you somewhere. And you always tap into it somewhere, even if subconsciously everything comes from somewhere. Sure. I do remember. I remember being very. I remember looking at the liner notes on off the Wall and Thriller when I was really young, and I kept seeing the name Rod Temperton in the credits and. And I think that's the first time I. I learned what songwriting was because I. I loved Rod songs more than the others, of course. And then.

[Interviewer]

And it's like, oh, this isn't all Michael Jackson for sure. There's other people behind, right?

[Patrick Walker]

Yeah, yeah. And in later years, I was able to go. And I still do. I look for, you know, I look for Rod Temperton albums or albums that he's. That he's written songs on.

[Interviewer]

Sure. Were you ever an Elvis guy?

[Patrick Walker]

No, not really. I mean, no, that wasn't in my hemisphere when I was growing up.

[Interviewer]

Interesting.

[Patrick Walker]

Yeah. Okay.

[Interviewer]

We'll talk about that in a second. How does Jackson 5 and tears for Fears lead to doom metal?

[Patrick Walker]

I didn't know what that was till the early 90s. I think that I was. It was the summer of 1989, so it's just before I started high school. Okay. And I went to the Harlowtown library and I borrowed two cassette tapes. And one was Is it Time Bandits by Hawkwind and the other was the Thieving Magpie by Marillion. And the Hawkwind cassette. Went. Went back. I didn't like that. But then Meridian became my favorite band.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Patrick Walker]

And that's when I discovered, I suppose, rock music.

[Interviewer]

Sure. Did you enjoy Motorhead more ever?

[Patrick Walker]

Not really. I like some of the records, but I'm not a Motorhead.

[Interviewer]

You're the rare Brit who's. Who abstains, maybe.

[Patrick Walker]

Yeah. Well, I think perhaps a lot of people think they're supposed to Like Motorheads, I think. I'm not really a Motorhead fan.

[Interviewer]

Understand. You're a melody man, you know.

[Patrick Walker]

Yeah, well, yeah, I mean. Yeah. And. And. And then Merillian. I mean, I became obsessed with Merillion.

[Interviewer]

Okay. So that really opened the door for sure.

[Patrick Walker]

Yeah. And then. And then. And that led to Iron Maiden. And I had a friend at high school that was. Was showing me more extreme music and became interested in that. And. And that led to Terrorizer magazine.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, it did.

[Patrick Walker]

Which took off in the early 90s. And that's when I discovered underground music. Because they always had a demo. Well, I mean, we'll get onto this. But, yeah, we really were. I started writing off and buying demos from bands.

[Interviewer]

Tell me about some early demos you found. Cause finding underground music as a genre and connecting with it as a community are two very different things.

[Patrick Walker]

Well, I was too young to really understand the community aspect of it because I was too young to go to shows.

[Interviewer]

Sure.

[Patrick Walker]

I was still 14 years old or something.

[Host]

So you're.

[Interviewer]

But you don't have. Do you have an older brother or anything or.

[Patrick Walker]

I have a younger sister.

[Interviewer]

Okay. But she's not putting you on to Napalm Death, you know.

[Patrick Walker]

This was me and a friend at school and the first Cathedral album I heard when I was 14.

[Interviewer]

There you go.

[Patrick Walker]

And I think that was it.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Patrick Walker]

And there was that, you know, infamous list inside where they said, thanks to the following bands for. I don't know what it is. For inspiration.

[Interviewer]

Sure.

[Patrick Walker]

And I'd never heard of any of them, but I had no way of knowing how to hear them.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. Do you remember the list? Is it like Candlemas, St. Vitus.

[Patrick Walker]

Candlemas weren't in it. It was Saint Vitus and the Obsessed and Pentagram and then, you know, and then Dream Death and Revelation and Unorthodox, A lot of the east coast bands, the early Hohen records stuff. And.

[Interviewer]

When do you start playing guitar?

[Patrick Walker]

I think I was 15.

[Interviewer]

Is it because you're like, I gotta get my cathedral chops?

[Patrick Walker]

I wasn't playing that stuff when I first picked up the guitar. I was. I was. I don't think I could. I learned to play the guitar really till I was, you know, in my. In my mid-20s, really.

[Interviewer]

I don't think learn and play are

[Patrick Walker]

two different things, you know?

[Interviewer]

You know?

[Patrick Walker]

Yeah, I was. I mean, I was playing it, but not very well.

[Interviewer]

Were you writing music at all, though, and while not playing it well?

[Patrick Walker]

Well, I mean, yeah, from. Yeah, a little bit.

[Interviewer]

Because songwriting takes time to flourish and yours is all is all out there for people to hear.

[Patrick Walker]

Yeah, for sure. But I mean, I really don't. I don't think I was. I even thought about songwriting as a thing until I was in my late 20s.

[Interviewer]

Fascinating.

[Patrick Walker]

Even the early Warning stuff and the first album, I wasn't conscious that I was writing songs. I don't remember thinking that that was something I was doing. But I wanted to be playing music like My Heroes. That was it, you know? Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Black Sabbath had to have made a big impact in your life.

[Patrick Walker]

It did. Yeah, for sure. 1990, I got Black Sabbath's greatest hits from W.H. smith's in Birmingham City Centre on cassette. It was moody heavy rock music to me. It was nothing more than that. I had no frame of reference for

[Interviewer]

it until you look in these liner notes and you see every band you like thanking them. Yeah, hey, thanks for creating this thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, what is warning and 40 watts on tune to, respectively?

[Patrick Walker]

Well, that's easy for warning because it's standard tuning. But when we made Watching From a Distance, we were in C. And now I'm 20 years older. We go down to B, I can't sing anymore. But 40 watt sun changes.

[Interviewer]

You're just playing around up there.

[Patrick Walker]

Every song's a different change.

[Interviewer]

Okay, okay. All right. Well, we'll get there. People have such a strong emotional connection to your music and your lyrics. Is there a band that did that for you specifically, where there was an emotional connection as much as it was a musical connection?

[Patrick Walker]

I first heard Revelation, and it was the first time I realized that heavy music, it incorporated a lot of the qualities that I, that I loved in other music. So, you know, I was a huge, I still am a huge Tim Buckley fan. And it's very emotive singer, songwriter music.

[Interviewer]

And is it a conscious thing in your mind at the time of, like, okay, this is. I didn't know this was an option musically, that somebody could mix these two things.

[Patrick Walker]

Well, no, they weren't mixing it.

[Interviewer]

They're just conveying what.

[Patrick Walker]

They were conveying something else. They were tapping into something that I hadn't found in it any other heavy music.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Patrick Walker]

And it was something considered and, and deeply personal and painfully confessional.

[Interviewer]

Is it conscious that you wanted to do the same thing?

[Patrick Walker]

I, I, well, I, I held onto it. I mean, they were also playing heavy music, but it felt more progressive than everything else. Sure, I held onto it, but I, I, you know, I was 16 years old, so I was.

[Interviewer]

You're plastic at that time.

[Patrick Walker]

Sure, yeah. Being molded by everything yeah, but it was. I mean, it's still. In terms of heavy music, it's still the band over anything else that I cite as informing the trajectory of my career.

[Interviewer]

I don't think many other bands, if any other bands in your genre, the Greater World of Doom, Umbrella of Doom, really come close to conveying that emotion that you're talking about, that you connected to in Revelation and the. That. I think a big part of that connection comes from your voice. It's the big X factor. How and when do you start singing?

[Patrick Walker]

Well, I was always singing Jackson 5

[Interviewer]

and Tears for Fears, you know.

[Patrick Walker]

Yeah, but not, not very well. And, and you know, even on the, the, you know, the early Warning records, I was. It took me a long time to find my voice and. And I think I found it when I made Watching From a Distance. I. But I think that four year hiatus helped because during that time I did a lot of other stuff and I

[Interviewer]

heard you wanted to be an actor.

[Patrick Walker]

No, this is. This. You'd ask me this. Everyone asks me, are you a trained actor and all that? This is. It's not true.

[Interviewer]

Are you an untrained actor?

[Patrick Walker]

No. No, no, no.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Patrick Walker]

And it makes me feel uncomfortable because, you know, it.

[Interviewer]

Where does this come from?

[Patrick Walker]

Well, it suggests that my. My singing's, I don't know, performative or something and it isn't. I mean, maybe it is. I mean, I mean, all singing is performative, isn't it?

[Interviewer]

All art is really.

[Patrick Walker]

Sure.

[Interviewer]

But when it's performed.

[Patrick Walker]

But you understand myself, how I might

[Interviewer]

feel if you weren't, if you were a performative, inauthentic guy, your songs would be short.

[Patrick Walker]

I'd love to make short songs.

[Interviewer]

Wouldn't it be great?

[Patrick Walker]

Yeah, I'd love to. I was watching a Tom Petty show on TV and Andrew's House and I'd much rather be doing this and having people, you know, in the audience be having a good time and just not who you are and feeling good about it. But it's not, it's not. I don't have a choice.

[Interviewer]

It's just.

[Patrick Walker]

It's what I do.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, I understand and I know you don't. You'd mentioned not wanting people to take your music as a projection of pain. You called it.

[Patrick Walker]

I don't want to. I get a lot of adjectives attached to my music, of course. You know, I mean, depressive is the first one that springs to mind which.

[Interviewer]

That I don't agree with because. And that's the thing I wanted to communicate with you is that it is you can hear emotion and pain in what you're saying without understanding the full context of it. But it's a connection of mutual pain with the audience that brings comfort in a way that is. It is reverse depressive.

[Patrick Walker]

It's a reductive way of talking about what I'm trying to convey.

[Interviewer]

Sure.

[Patrick Walker]

And you know, I know what. I know what depression's like, you know, and you know, if you're depressed, the last thing you want to do is get out of bed or get off the sofa and. And pick up a guitar and make a song, nevermind have a shower, you know. But I don't want my. To me, if music's going to be. It's depressive, it's confrontational or it's intimidating, I don't want that. I want. There's a way of articulating difficult or painful things without being like that. I'd rather my music was felt like somebody coming and standing beside you. And that's what I mean.

[Interviewer]

That's what I mean by connection is it's like, oh, I'm not alone in this feeling or this thought. Even though I don't specifically know what he's personally talking about, it somehow applies to this very specific thing going on in my life. And then people end up grateful for it and that ends up in a deeper connection with it, which I can tell you firsthand has happened, especially with something we're gonna talk about in a second. Okay, let's talk about the early days in formation of Warning.

[Patrick Walker]

Okay.

[Interviewer]

How did the band get together? It was you, Was it just you and Stuart?

[Patrick Walker]

Initially, yeah. I'd seen Stuart around because when I left school When I was 16, my mother made me get a job. What was the job? Oh God. I was working in a plastics factory in Harlow. It was horrible.

[Interviewer]

It was good fumes, huh?

[Patrick Walker]

And there was a. And there was one day I was working at this and there was a guy opposite me wearing a Cathedral Autumn Twilight T shirt with long hair. And I don't think we even spoke. I was painfully shy and then I bumped into him again at college maybe three months later. And that was it really. We got talking and there was a music venue in Harlow that I discovered when I was 16 and it's not there anymore. It was called the Square and it was quite a. A nationally renowned music venue and a lot of quite notable touring bands passed through there. And that was invaluable, not just to me, but I think to anyone that was, you know, in alternative communities in Harlow in the 90s. It was it felt like a safe place to go to.

[Interviewer]

You can't have a scene without a place to go.

[Patrick Walker]

Well, I guess you can't. But it was through the square and through Stuart that I met John, who was the first bass player. We played with him. And then Marcus Wayne, who I still play with now. We're all very young.

[Interviewer]

He was warning. Your first real band.

[Patrick Walker]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

So it's just an extension of you at this point.

[Patrick Walker]

Sure, yeah. Stuart and I used to rehearse in. His mother was a. I think she was a caretaker for. There was a local church and she had the keys, so she used to let us go and rehearse in the church. I used to walk across town with a practice amp in one hand and my guitar in the other.

[Interviewer]

What was your guitar? What was your first guitar?

[Patrick Walker]

I can't even remember what make it was, but it wasn't very good. It was the best I could afford.

[Interviewer]

Okay, understood.

[Patrick Walker]

I find it hard to imagine that hunger. I must have had to rehearse and play music because that was some trek across town carrying that stuff.

[Interviewer]

And what's the goal at the time? Just play music with a friend?

[Patrick Walker]

Probably, you know, it was probably to get. There was a fanzine in the. Started in the. The early 90s from Belgium called Reflections of Doom. I think they ran up to about 20 issues or 25 issues.

[Interviewer]

Very cool.

[Patrick Walker]

And to me the ultimate goal was to get an interview in Reflections of Doom, phone scene or a demo.

[Interviewer]

Reflections of Doom, if you're watching, please reach out. He's ready.

[Patrick Walker]

What I would say. I've asked around. If there's anyone watching that still has the back issues. I would love to because I had them all and I no longer have them because I've moved house so often. But if anyone's watching that has all of the old back issues of that zine. I'd love to borrow them or get copies of them all.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, we'll see what we can do.

[Patrick Walker]

All right.

[Interviewer]

We'll see what we can do.

[Patrick Walker]

Okay.

[Interviewer]

The Revelation Looms demo.

[Patrick Walker]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer]

It's much more classically early doom. You know, Black Sabbath right off the bat, sonically. But there's like sludge elements. There's what some might call a breakdown right off the bat, a minute in and a shocking amount of blues scale for what I know of you now. But your voice is there from the beginning, albeit maybe a little more Ozzy esque.

[Patrick Walker]

Yeah. A bit high pitched.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Host]

How was.

[Interviewer]

Do you. Do you recall anything from putting that together?

[Patrick Walker]

I do, yeah. It was we recorded it one week. It was recorded in February 1996. I think I was 17 years old. It was recorded a week after our debut show, which was with Morne. Morne were a London based metal band that put out there one great demo and the first album was on Rise Above. Well, the first and only album came out on Rise Above Records. It was with Morn and Orange Goblin.

[Interviewer]

Oh.

[Patrick Walker]

And it was their second. It was their second show. And I think, and I might be wrong, but I think their first show as Orange Goblin was the night before at the Bullen Gate in Kentish Town.

[Interviewer]

Very cool.

[Patrick Walker]

And the following week we recorded Revelation Looms. And I think the week after that was my 18th birthday.

[Interviewer]

Really?

[Patrick Walker]

Oh, that's awesome. Yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer]

You're coming into your own here. Literally and figuratively. The songs are six to nine minutes already. Which are shorter for you these days maybe, but long for everybody else. Is an LP in your foresight at all, even at that time?

[Patrick Walker]

No, it didn't occur to me. I didn't have any kind of ambition.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Patrick Walker]

I mean I really did. I'm not being facetious. I wanted to just to make a demo and be part of this tiny scene that I was discovering.

[Interviewer]

It's still small in a way, you know. Compared to where?

[Patrick Walker]

I don't know. I mean, it was so small. Everyone knew each other.

[Interviewer]

Sure.

[Patrick Walker]

I think it would have been maybe September in 1994. And I wrote to the German band Mirror of Deception. Cause the second demo, Words Unspoken was reviewed in Terrorizer and I wrote to them and Jochen, the band leader, wrote back to me with about four pages of addresses of other bands and said right to these bands. And it was pretty much everyone in the scene at the time. And I did, I wrote to everybody and everyone knew one another. And the UK scene was like maybe six bands. Right. I mean it was tight knit and it felt special.

[Interviewer]

So the kind of five, six songs doom lp, the idea of that now kind of a normalized thing, you know, the like 50 minute, five song experience. Was there a band in particular that stuck to like Epicus is six songs. Nightfall is like six songs. Are. Is there a band in particular where that made you feel comfortable just being like, yeah, that's an lp.

[Patrick Walker]

I didn't really see how it wasn't. Yeah, you know, first Saint Vitus albums, five songs. Yeah, you know, there were long songs and they went through a lot. Each song was, I don't know, a journey. Yeah, right. I didn't see that. It wasn't okay. It was. I Think it was in 1998. A warning. We're playing a show with the UK band Solstice at the Royal Standard in Wallam Stone, London. And. And Richard from Solstice. I think he just started a label and he. And he put out. He'd put out a. Or was in the process of putting out a compilation album. He called it an International Doom Collection, I think was the title he gave it, called out the Mountains of Madness.

[Interviewer]

And you'd never forgot.

[Patrick Walker]

Yeah. And that was our first appearance on cd.

[Interviewer]

Right.

[Patrick Walker]

But at that show, he said, you're gonna make an album for me. And you know, I mean, to be fair, he was true to his word and. And paid for us to go make a record.

[Interviewer]

Amazing.

[Patrick Walker]

And then when we'd made it, he paid for me to go back and re record the vocals.

[Interviewer]

Oh, no. Yeah, well, we're almost there. But we got to talk about the Blessed by the Sabbath.

[Patrick Walker]

Oh, yeah.

[Host]

Okay.

[Interviewer]

Again, which is more aggressive, Angrier. I think it's a little more menacing than the initial demo.

[Patrick Walker]

I think you're giving it too much credit.

[Interviewer]

No, it's good. It's so good. What's going on in your life? Life at this time?

[Patrick Walker]

Oh, just a painfully idealistic teenager not knowing really how to articulate my thoughts and feelings. And, you know, I mean, it's. They're barely concealed love songs on that. On that. On that demo.

[Interviewer]

Barely conceal. I mean, you're. You ain't concealing them anymore.

[Patrick Walker]

Yeah, it's just unfortunately they all involve the living dead or something like that.

[Interviewer]

Well, the Strength to dream, right. 1999 warnings debut LP. And I think this is where you start to come into your own and find your identity. But it still has this like menacing edge to it, more than being as melancholic as what would follow.

[Patrick Walker]

Sure.

[Interviewer]

Do you feel this is like the last aggressive piece of music you ever wrote? I feel like.

[Patrick Walker]

Well, I think it's the last record probably up until the new album that I ever made that's got any Palm muting in it. Yeah, but I know what you mean by aggressive. Yeah. I mean it feels like it's still unequivocally a heavy metal album.

[Interviewer]

You're still going, nah, nah.

[Patrick Walker]

And I'm still informed by, you know, all of the bands.

[Interviewer]

That minor scale,

[Patrick Walker]

you can hear my influences. It.

[Interviewer]

That. That. That would. See, I feel like influences ceased with watching from a Distance. But on Strength of Dream, the lyrics are much more like Shakespearean fiction.

[Patrick Walker]

Okay.

[Interviewer]

Almost more than this personal expression of emotion that you've come To. Yeah.

[Patrick Walker]

So again, you're giving it far too much credit.

[Interviewer]

No, it's good. It's good. Listen to it. The riffs are unbelievable. It. Was the title inspired by an Elvis lyric?

[Patrick Walker]

No, no, it was inspired by a book by the British writer Colin Wilson. And what's the Elvis song? I don't know. This.

[Interviewer]

If I Can Dream.

[Patrick Walker]

No, I don't.

[Interviewer]

As long as a man has the strength to dream, he can redeem his soul and fly. It's a banger. I'll show you.

[Patrick Walker]

Thank you. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Great song.

[Host]

So I'd always.

[Interviewer]

I saw that connection. I was like, guy loves Elvis. He's cool man.

[Patrick Walker]

Right.

[Interviewer]

How immersed in the technical aspects of guitar are you in the song?

[Patrick Walker]

I'm not. I still know nothing about it. Really?

[Interviewer]

You're not. You're not a pedal tone gear guy?

[Patrick Walker]

I know nothing about it. I'm not a gear guy. I know nothing about it. And I'm very open about that. Okay. I'm a song man.

[Interviewer]

Okay. You're a plug and play. Or do you got. You got guys who do this stuff for you?

[Patrick Walker]

Well, I learn. I mean, I like to surround myself with people that know better than me and can play better than me. Yeah. I don't know what I'm doing most of the time. I'm okay with that. You know, I've long since accepted that I'm. I'm not a gear. Okay. I'm not a gear man.

[Interviewer]

Mids, you know, who. Who knows what they're doing down. I like them down.

[Patrick Walker]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Do you.

[Host]

Is there a.

[Interviewer]

Is there to you, an important piece of gear that you own? A favorite guitar, perhaps?

[Patrick Walker]

That I own now?

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Patrick Walker]

Oh, yeah. Well, I, I, I. Last summer I bought a Yamaha sg and it's by far and away the best guitar I've ever played.

[Interviewer]

Buttery smooth.

[Patrick Walker]

Oh, it's wonderful.

[Interviewer]

You got it with you for this tour you're on now?

[Patrick Walker]

No, I'm. Well, I'm touring solo, so I've got two acoustic guitars with me.

[Interviewer]

Are you doing the Restless acoustic on this tour?

[Patrick Walker]

No, I have to. It's. It's too much of a radical. I've got both guitars in different tunings.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Patrick Walker]

But Restless, I have to. That's in sort of D flat standard, so.

[Interviewer]

D flat standard. Here's a crazy question.

[Patrick Walker]

Sure.

[Interviewer]

What's your favorite fret?

[Patrick Walker]

Probably the fourth.

[Interviewer]

Fourth?

[Patrick Walker]

Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer]

I've never gotten four. I would have said seven on the A for you.

[Patrick Walker]

Why?

[Interviewer]

I feel like the payoffs are always seven. Three. Five, you know, You Know where you're going emotionally. And it starts at seven.

[Patrick Walker]

If you gave me a guitar now, I'd go straight for the fourth.

[Interviewer]

Fourth.

[Patrick Walker]

Wow.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Patrick Walker]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

This is breaking news.

[Patrick Walker]

That's a good question.

[Interviewer]

This is unbelievable. Okay, so do you do any kind of vocally? Like. I lose my voice one show.

[Patrick Walker]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

How strong is your vocal stamina at this point?

[Patrick Walker]

At the moment, since I had pneumonia last month. Not strong. Okay. I hate to say it. I'm getting old.

[Interviewer]

You're getting better. Fine wine, you know.

[Patrick Walker]

Yeah. I mean I'm still learning how to use my voice.

[Interviewer]

Sure.

[Patrick Walker]

There's. But I don't warm up if you're never going to ask. No, really. No.

[Interviewer]

You cool down.

[Patrick Walker]

I did nothing.

[Interviewer]

Just a nice cup of tea maybe. Yeah. Okay. Wow. No warm up. Have you ever experimented with anything like that?

[Patrick Walker]

I do, but I got bored.

[Interviewer]

It is boring.

[Patrick Walker]

Yeah, it really is boring.

[Interviewer]

I do the Jacob's Vocal Academy five minute warm up. It's my top plate on Spotify all time. Check it out. Banger. Do you tour much on Strength to Dream?

[Patrick Walker]

At the time late 90s, we did two tours with Solstice. I can't remember if either of them came out were before the record. Sorry, after the record was released. But we were certainly playing the songs from it. I guess the Strength to Dream tour was in 2001.

[Interviewer]

Okay. Oh, wow.

[Patrick Walker]

And it was. Well, yeah, I mean it was sometime after that album came out, but we. It was our first time going to the European mainland and we did a 10 day tour with the Austrian band Jack Frost.

[Interviewer]

Yes, of course. Promptly broke up. Right.

[Patrick Walker]

We did. Yeah. It was. It was difficult because, you know, it was a different time. We didn't have mobile phones or satellite navigation. And your tour itineraries were very badly printed.

[Interviewer]

Sure.

[Patrick Walker]

Street maps. And.

[Interviewer]

And do you like touring at the time?

[Patrick Walker]

No, I hated it.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Patrick Walker]

I dreaded it. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Touring now.

[Patrick Walker]

Well, I think I got into touring. I began to learn to enjoy it probably in my. In my mid-30s.

[Interviewer]

Okay. I'm starting to feel that way too, you know, as a. As a 20 year old, I'm passing by the Church of Bones and just being like, who cares, man? I'm home starving.

[Patrick Walker]

Yeah. But I'm now. And I don't know whether it's because I'm currently. This is the fourth tour I've done in 13 months.

[Interviewer]

That's a lot.

[Patrick Walker]

Yeah. And when Jesse from Bellwich asked me to do it, I said, I can't do it, Jesse. I need to rest. Lost their tour support. Yeah. Well, it was before I got pneumonia. I think it was right before Roadburn. Yeah. And I'm struggling right now. We've played four shows and I need to rest.

[Interviewer]

Three days off.

[Patrick Walker]

But you know, I enjoy. I love meeting people. I do like singing.

[Interviewer]

I would hope so. Yeah, right. You do it a lot. You do it well. What happens in your life between 2001 and 2006 that reshapes the way that you approach? Warning. Watching from a distance is on the horizon. And it is a completely different thing.

[Patrick Walker]

Well, here's the thing. We got back together in January 2005 and we were casually rehearsing and just playing around. We had no plans. And then Jochen from. The guy that I mentioned from Mirror of Deception, he used to have a. There was an annual doom metal festival in Kuppingen in Germany called Doom Shall Rise. And I think he'd heard that we were playing again and said, would you come and play Doom Shall Rise in April, like three months away? And so we said, yeah, okay, sure, let's do that. And we went and played the show and it went really well. And then we did nothing for the rest of the year. And then In January of 2006, we went on tour in Scandinavia with Reverend Bazaar. And again that went very well. But I. Although I was still struggling with the touring and I didn't have a good time, but we got back at the end of January and Richard from the Miskatonic foundation put out the first album.

[Interviewer]

Who you're not related to.

[Patrick Walker]

I'm not related to him at all. That's another myth. Yeah. He said, have you got an album's worth of songs or you got an album written? And I said no. He said, well, you better get working because I've booked the studio for you in April and this was the end of January and I thought, oh shit. And watching from a distance pretty much came together in that tiny window. And you know, that's something that I've carried with me today is that, you know, more than some kind of personal traumatic event or anything, or inspiration or waiting for the muse or something more than anything else, to make good work, you need a deadline. And I know as well as anyone that without a deadline, I never finish anything. Some will take me years rather than weeks.

[Interviewer]

I'm mid suffering with the same idea right now. So January to April 2005, 2006. 2006.

[Patrick Walker]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Watching from a distance, your landmark sophomore LP, a genre defining classic and one of my favorite albums ever written. Currently celebrating 20 years this year. How do you Reflect on the unbelievable legacy of this record.

[Patrick Walker]

Like I've said before, the most you can hope for when you make a record is that it's well received. If people are still listening to it in five years time, that's a bonus

[Interviewer]

one year's time nowadays.

[Patrick Walker]

Right. The fact that there's a whole new generation of people that are now listening to this record that weren't born when I made it is a privilege. And I find it very easy to say unkind things about that record.

[Interviewer]

That's crazy. But we'll get into it. Sure.

[Patrick Walker]

Right. You know, but again, I was 27 when I started making that. Really? I'm grateful for it.

[Interviewer]

Me too.

[Patrick Walker]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

So, thanks. From the first note, you can tell things are different. Much more polished production. Any of the grit that your voice once had is gone. How does the approach change writing wise? Is it natural? Is it all organic? Or is there an intention to do things more melancholic?

[Patrick Walker]

Well, like I said, I think that four year interim where I was able to reflect on the first record helped and I knew what was wrong with it. I think everyone knows what's wrong with it. I don't remember reflecting much on it because it came together very, very quickly. I don't know, I think that I like my musical palette had expanded so much more by that point and I was drawing from other things.

[Interviewer]

What were those other things I would like to hear?

[Patrick Walker]

Well, I don't know. I mean, you're not necessarily going to hear them, but a lot of songwriter music.

[Interviewer]

Sure.

[Patrick Walker]

Or, you know, I remember I, you know, one of my favorite albums is Happy Sad by Tim Buckley, which has a very, it feels like it has an emotional arc to it and a sense of passage running through the album from beginning to end. And I think it was being in four parts and I wanted to take that or translate that. I approached to making a record and apply it to heavy music.

[Interviewer]

You really did.

[Patrick Walker]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

The iconic massive drum sound. Is that one of your nitpicks?

[Patrick Walker]

No, that doesn't bother me as much as it does some people.

[Interviewer]

I love it. I just think it's so unique. And the snare is the loudest, crackiest thing you've ever heard.

[Patrick Walker]

I was still learning how to make a record when I made that, but I was in, I was interested because when I made the first album, I, I, I was oblivious to everything that was going on in the control room. You know, when we made that record, I was as in watching from a distance. I was, I was on the ball, I think. And I Knew where every kick drum was supposed to go. And after, you know, tracking things, I'd be in the control room and. And fixing things and paying attention to detail. But I do remember my drummer, Stuart, he kept saying, I want my drums to sound like they're being played in a cathedral.

[Interviewer]

It sounds like he's playing in a cathedral with Hulk hands and wooden batons.

[Patrick Walker]

And I didn't fight that. That wasn't.

[Interviewer]

I think it sounds cool.

[Patrick Walker]

Yeah, Okay. I don't care.

[Interviewer]

And to the extent where. But when New Warning was announced, I was like, these drums better be.

[Patrick Walker]

We played the show. When we did the tour in 2017, we did a US leg of the tour and the second show was in Portland. And the sound guy came up and he said, I've got to say, this is a huge privilege for me. I've been studying your album because we were touring, watching from a distance. He said, I've been studying your album for weeks, and I think. I think I know how to get that snare sound live. And I said, I was gonna say to you, if you can do anything, don't copy that snare sound live. Everything else you can keep.

[Interviewer]

And did the light fade from his eyes?

[Patrick Walker]

It did.

[Interviewer]

Everybody wants to do that. It's explosive. The title track opens this record and it feels like you're saying the emotional grass is kind of always greener. And it's the first time in Warring's discography where there isn't a hint of malice or dissonance musically or lyrically. Is this the first composition?

[Patrick Walker]

I think it was the first thing we made together, yeah.

[Interviewer]

And do you finish this? I mean, starting the journey of writing this song is unimaginable. Knowing when it's done sounds more insane.

[Patrick Walker]

I had the first thing I had, and I know this, the first thing I had was the lyrics, which was. Sometimes when I watch you, you seem like the same person that I once knew.

[Interviewer]

And that informs the whole record kind of.

[Patrick Walker]

Well, it. Well, the song was built around that lyric, so I started with that and worked outwards. The riff in the verse was written to the lyric. I just figured out how I was going to phrase it and sing it. And then I kind of worked outwards.

[Interviewer]

When you're dealing with these massive compositions, how do you know when they're done? Do you just have to accept that they're done so that you don't tinker on it?

[Patrick Walker]

Yeah, I mean, it was originally longer. There was. The play out riff was in two parts, I seem to recall. And even, you know, I at the time said, this is too much. We abbreviated that.

[Interviewer]

Which is interesting. Cause I want to know, is restraint something you even think about?

[Patrick Walker]

When I think economy is something I've learned. So practice I've learned in songwriting. And I think when I made the last 40 watt sign record, little Weight, I think that was a good exercise in economy, I think, primarily because, you know, it's the first record I've made that was a single vinyl.

[Interviewer]

Right. Finally.

[Patrick Walker]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

A $20 record.

[Patrick Walker]

I wanted to do that. I wanted to make a.

[Interviewer]

You know, Perfect Light has some shorter songs on it, too.

[Patrick Walker]

It does, but economy doesn't necessarily mean shorter. It just means that nothing's wasted.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Patrick Walker]

And, you know, and I think that it's all the material on that record. And I don't mean to jump ahead. No, I think it's all song. There's no fat. You know, it's all song.

[Interviewer]

And there's things I've noticed about it that I will bring up later. Back to watching from a distance. Even the artwork feels cold and painful. And I've always looked at it as if this. This poor guy carrying this wheat or some shit up a hill. You're the guy, I'm the wheat. You're carrying me up this hill. Musically, you pulled that from Tales of Terror. This image.

[Patrick Walker]

It was. I used to write with somebody, and they used to send me a lot of artwork and illustrations and things. I mean, this was when I was

[Interviewer]

a teenager, just like, hey, check out this artwork. Or, hey, do you want to use this for yourself?

[Patrick Walker]

It was just saying crap in the Post and comics and pictures and cuttings and things from magazines and that. But I had this. This artwork, and I kept it. And it seemed like the. I mean, I had no idea. I didn't think of album art until the last minute. And I thought, okay, well, you know, let's use this. And I didn't know where it came from. And then it was years later I discovered it was Matt Mahurin who. He made the first. He took that iconic photograph on the. The first Tracy Chapman album cover.

[Interviewer]

Oh, really? The portrait photo?

[Patrick Walker]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Right.

[Patrick Walker]

The sepia thing. And. And he did, like, a couple of Tom Waits albums. Alice. I think he did me all variations. And he did the Metallica. I think he did Metallica's Unforgiven video as well. Oh, wow. But, yeah, I panicked. It was a few years too late, but I had a panic. And I wrote to him, and he was very gracious. And he said, you know, he said, yeah, well, don't worry about It. But if you want to send me enough money to take my wife out for a meal, then that'd be cool.

[Interviewer]

What a guy.

[Patrick Walker]

Yeah. Right.

[Interviewer]

That's awesome. And, yeah, I noticed you're still using it to this day, so I've got no choice now. Yeah, exactly. Well, but like, some people have no choice, and then they get it taken from them because they can't leisurely. Can't use it. So. That's very cool. I think I've only ever heard you sing a harmony recorded maybe once. Do you hear the harmonies when you're writing and choose not to sing them or. Generally, every song is one single track in the center.

[Patrick Walker]

I think this harmonies all the way through the third and fourth 40 watt sun records.

[Interviewer]

But they're not super. They're not like exploding in the mix or anything.

[Patrick Walker]

No, for sure, no.

[Interviewer]

But Watching From a Distance doesn't have a single.

[Patrick Walker]

No, right. No, it doesn't. And I. I actually had harmonies written for every song on the new record. And when we came to tracking them, I realized that they wouldn't work because, you know, I think because of the nature of the music and because it's. It's. It's obviously heavier, I think my singing is naturally just a little bit more. I don't know how to maybe demented. And harmonies don't fit comfortably with that vocal style. And I ended up recording none of them.

[Interviewer]

You really didn't. Which poetically, very warning, in a way. Let's talk about bridges, not the song, the songwriting tune. Your understanding of payoff in song structure to me is like unrivaled. And there's a moment in every song that's like a. Wait for it. It's coming. Like you could feel tension building to something. Do you ever start with the bridge and write around it, knowing what you're trying to get to?

[Patrick Walker]

That's a good question. Yeah, sometimes. Maybe Footprints is a good. I mean, I've heard people call it the Footprints moment. And I. And by that, I mean that what you're referring to is probably a hallmark of my song making.

[Interviewer]

I would call it your definitive.

[Patrick Walker]

Okay, all right.

[Interviewer]

Song making.

[Patrick Walker]

Yeah. I had the first half of Footprints. I had the last part, and I knew they all belonged in the same song, but they were both in different keys. And the hardest thing making that song was. Was getting from A to B. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Sometimes that takes years, but you had three months, you know.

[Patrick Walker]

Right. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

So, I mean, I. I've openly called this the greatest bridge in the history of music.

[Patrick Walker]

Okay.

[Interviewer]

Do you feel when you finish this and listen to it back and know what you've got. That you'd written the definitive warning song, or is this just another song to you?

[Patrick Walker]

I mean, I knew it was good, but I. I didn't think anyone would hear it because again, it was. You know, we were. We were making it for a tiny. Essentially a bedroom label.

[Interviewer]

Right.

[Patrick Walker]

It was. There was no. I mean, you know, the Internet was still infancy in infancy. It was. There was. People into this music, all knew each other and hung out on the same message forums and stuff. You know, it was. It was. I didn't think anybody would hear it.

[Interviewer]

So it was just, hey, damn, this is good. Shame nobody will hear, probably.

[Patrick Walker]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

And I mean, still gives me goosebumps to this day. And I'm not going to sit here and ask you what songs are about because in a sense, like, it's in there in a way. But also, I don't want to know because I have my own connection to all of them. But this analogy of this defenseless knight laying down is laying down his weaponry and given in. And what I've always imagined is this beautiful, pained love song of sorts. Is there any concern ever in your mind of, like, putting this part of yourself out there? And are there songs in the warning or 40 watt sun repertoire that are difficult to perform live because of that?

[Patrick Walker]

I don't think I could perform Landing Lights from the new record live. I don't know. It depends where I am. That, you know, sometimes something I haven't thought about or felt for years will. It'll tap you on the shoulder while you're performing a song. It's hard to say. My immediate answer was. Was Landing Lights from the new song. And I don't think I could do that.

[Interviewer]

One great song, great record we're gonna talk about in a second. I have never shown footprints to a person. I've put a lot of people onto the trigger.

[Patrick Walker]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Anytime I sit them down and just say, wait for it. Just sit. Just sit and just sit and listen, they walk away. A big fan. So it's really. You're right. And then it is just a matter of hearing it to know it's good and that the concern is just, will people hear it? Was the response to watching from a distance as a whole kind of a slow burn thing, Was it a new.

[Patrick Walker]

It came out. This is why I think that you know, as well as a blessing, it's a burden because everything I do is always and will continue to be held up against that record. And I think the reason is it came out to no fanfare, there was no press cycle, there was no money behind it, there was no label push, there was no marketing. There was nothing. It just, it just came out and it was quietly and you know, I think there was maybe there was a thousand copies. But it sort of very slowly snowballed over the years that followed in such a way that the only way anyone ever heard that record was through word of mouth or through. I think people always, are always gonna feel like they've discovered that record for themselves. And for that reason alone, it carries the importance of that record to people, carries added weight. And you can't replicate that. It could make, you know, I could make another Sergeant Pepper or something. Do you know what I mean?

[Interviewer]

You could make watching from a distance too.

[Patrick Walker]

And you can't compete with the experience of people's discovery of a record like that because people will always feel like they discovered it for themselves rather than had it forced upon them.

[Interviewer]

I absolutely feel that way. So you nailed it.

[Host]

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[Interviewer]

Touring in America for the first time. Did you. How was that experience for you versus Europe, mainland Europe or the UK?

[Patrick Walker]

I was 2011. I think what happened is the first 40 watt sun record came out on in Europe and Metal Blade picked it up and licensed it for North America. And then that's how a guy that I'm still friends with now called Edgar in Chicago, it was a tour manager got in touch and said, do you want to come and tour the States? And we said, I don't think we can afford It. And he went, I've got it covered. Don't worry. All you gotta do is agree to it and I'll fix everything. And that's how we flew out to the States and did that tour.

[Interviewer]

Did you have a good time?

[Patrick Walker]

I did, because we were looked at. Everything was taken care of.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. That's cool.

[Patrick Walker]

It was. Yeah. It felt effortless. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Are you a food guy?

[Patrick Walker]

I am. I'm into cooking.

[Interviewer]

Oh, you're into cooking?

[Patrick Walker]

Oh, yeah.

[Interviewer]

So are you a guy who eats out often?

[Patrick Walker]

I eat out often when I'm in the U.S. okay. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Talk to me. What are you into? This is a big recurring theme on this show because food is one of the one. No matter what genre you play, it's one of the thing that binds us all as touring musicians.

[Patrick Walker]

I always say, there's nothing I don't eat.

[Interviewer]

What are you excited to eat, though?

[Patrick Walker]

Oh, my gosh. I don't know.

[Interviewer]

Like, if there's one thing, this is the question we ask every van.

[Patrick Walker]

Sure.

[Interviewer]

If you're driving down the highway on tour and you see a sign for something coming up, what is that?

[Host]

What?

[Interviewer]

What is on that sign that makes you go, driver, please, please stop. I need this.

[Patrick Walker]

Oh, I mean, maybe Vietnamese food or something.

[Interviewer]

Oh, man. Next time you're in the LA area,

[Patrick Walker]

I'm gonna take you to a spot or seafood. Yeah, right.

[Interviewer]

Very good. Vietnamese in particular. I'm gonna blow your mind.

[Patrick Walker]

Okay, I'm there.

[Interviewer]

Can I ask you about British cuisine for a bit?

[Patrick Walker]

Well, yeah. I mean, how into it, what there is of it. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

So that's how you feel?

[Patrick Walker]

Yeah. I mean, there's good food there, but it's. You don't have the choice you have here.

[Interviewer]

I'm gonna play a little game with you, if that's okay. I'm gonna say a British dish. If you could tell me the first thing that comes to mind.

[Patrick Walker]

Okay.

[Interviewer]

Fish and chips, grease. Chicken tikka masala.

[Patrick Walker]

Horrible. It's a horrible English variation on Indian food.

[Interviewer]

Sunday roast, classic Scotch eggs.

[Patrick Walker]

Wonderful if they're done right. Okay. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Toad in the hole.

[Patrick Walker]

Beautiful.

[Interviewer]

Spotted dick.

[Patrick Walker]

I'd see a doctor asap, for sure.

[Interviewer]

Beef Wellington?

[Patrick Walker]

No, it's too stodgy.

[Interviewer]

Pie and mash?

[Patrick Walker]

That's. Yeah. I mean, if you get it from a pie and mash shop.

[Interviewer]

Okay. Do you do the thing where you flip it upside down? I've seen this technique.

[Patrick Walker]

Yeah. I mean, the Bosch guy.

[Interviewer]

You know the Bosch guy. You know the Bosch guy. Are you online? Are you a guy who's online much?

[Patrick Walker]

No, I Don't have any social media.

[Interviewer]

But the Bosch guy made it to you.

[Patrick Walker]

Well, my drum, Andy, showed me a guy the other day who has a YouTube channel, and he reviews tinned fish.

[Interviewer]

Oh.

[Patrick Walker]

Have you come across this guy? Okay. Yeah, he.

[Interviewer]

You like it?

[Patrick Walker]

That's his thing. What, tinfish or the channel?

[Interviewer]

No, no, the channel.

[Patrick Walker]

It's weird.

[Interviewer]

Okay. Are you on YouTube much?

[Patrick Walker]

What's much? Maybe. I mean, I just want.

[Interviewer]

I'm so fascinated with how you spend your free time, you know?

[Patrick Walker]

Okay.

[Interviewer]

Do you think your colleagues and family and friends would describe you as a fun guy?

[Patrick Walker]

Okay. I'd like to think so.

[Interviewer]

Okay. What is your idea of fun?

[Patrick Walker]

Making food and eating out with my girlfriend and sitting at a bar. Okay. I love bars.

[Interviewer]

See, you split the G and all that. The Guinness thing.

[Patrick Walker]

Well, I like drinking in American bars, not British ones.

[Interviewer]

Oh, you just like to be at the. At the bar.

[Patrick Walker]

Well, I like that, too.

[Interviewer]

Okay. I mean, that's just a cultural staple, you know? Are you familiar with straight edge?

[Patrick Walker]

I am.

[Interviewer]

Okay. Because there's not. Most straight edge Brits that I know aren't straight edge for very long because it's just so ingrained in the culture. I've got two more here.

[Patrick Walker]

That's fine. You're good.

[Interviewer]

Chip butty.

[Patrick Walker]

I mean, we've all done it, but it's.

[Interviewer]

It's one of the most repugnant things I've ever seen. It's crazy.

[Patrick Walker]

Yeah. I can't say anything kind about that. Yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer]

It's one of the fattest things a man can do. The full English.

[Patrick Walker]

No, I mean, I can't. I mean, I don't like. I don't like greasy food or, you know, is anything cooked in.

[Interviewer]

Not a black pudding.

[Patrick Walker]

Right. I do like black pudding.

[Interviewer]

So that's the exception. In full English is the black pudding.

[Patrick Walker]

Blood sausage.

[Interviewer]

Man, you really are just a tortured guy. Okay, well, that was British cuisine. Word association with Patrick Walker. What's your favorite thing to cook if cooking is your great secret passion?

[Patrick Walker]

I'm very good at making Indian food.

[Interviewer]

And yet you don't like chicken tikka masala.

[Patrick Walker]

Well, I don't think it's Indian food.

[Interviewer]

Oh, because it's British Indian food.

[Patrick Walker]

Yeah, it's a British thing.

[Interviewer]

So what are you into, like, a nice curry or.

[Patrick Walker]

Yeah, I mean, I like South Indian cuisine.

[Interviewer]

Oh, apologies.

[Patrick Walker]

Of course. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Now I know. Do you. I mean, we've talked about this a bit, but at this point, I mean, maybe especially with warning. Do you enjoy playing live, or is it more about the creation of the

[Patrick Walker]

record for you, I find it in general or with Warning?

[Interviewer]

In general it's fine.

[Patrick Walker]

It's different. I mean it's. Playing with Warning's challenging. It's involves more stamina, which is one of the reasons why I. People keep asking, are you going to be touring the new album? And I won't be because I can't do it night after night.

[Interviewer]

So just a handful of select dates maybe.

[Patrick Walker]

Sure, yeah. Just one offs or weekends or something. I couldn't do that every night. I'm not a spring chicken anymore.

[Interviewer]

I mean even if you were like big time metal bands aren't doing five days in a row ever anymore, which. And economically one day on one day off. One day on one day off is impossible.

[Patrick Walker]

Yeah. But with what I'm doing now. Yeah, I mean I find the touring itself is quite challenging for me, particularly at the moment.

[Interviewer]

But physically.

[Patrick Walker]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And sometimes mentally I think.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Patrick Walker]

When I'm performing by myself, you know, I can sing at a whisper and I'm in complete control over what I do. When you're playing with a band, and

[Interviewer]

particularly a loud band with the big whole can drums.

[Patrick Walker]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Do you ever use. Do you use in ear monitors at all?

[Patrick Walker]

I don't.

[Interviewer]

Man. How much doom are you listening to these days?

[Patrick Walker]

I mean, I don't follow it anymore. There's nothing, almost nothing I should say that's coming out that interests me. I don't even really know what it is anymore because it's changed its meaning so much. And I think all the qualities in the music that I fell in love with when I was 16, almost non existent now it's become something else.

[Interviewer]

Ghouls and Goblins, sure.

[Patrick Walker]

And then reductive slogans like, you know, worship the riff and things get thrown around and. And it was never about that to me. It's about the song making and not something that's formulaic or, you know. But there's a. There's a band from Indiana called Apostle of Solitude who are great. A German band called Navis who I've been friends with since I was 16. Just put out a new album, but I don't. I don't follow it. But you know, I still love everything that I ever loved.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, right, of course.

[Patrick Walker]

But my tastes have expanded and not changed over the years.

[Interviewer]

Do you receive correspondence from kind of contemporary dune bands about how watching from a distance has influenced them? Like is Pallbearer on your radar?

[Patrick Walker]

Yeah, I know those guys, they love you.

[Interviewer]

And you can tell warnings break up after this record how does that happen and why does that happen?

[Patrick Walker]

The last 18 months that warning was playing, we had a new drummer called Christian Leach, who was the guitar player from the London band the River. Chris came in as a replacement drummer. And as soon as he stepped in, I noticed this whole change in dynamic and he was bringing something that I hadn't heard in the songs before.

[Interviewer]

Cause Stewart is caveman.

[Patrick Walker]

I was about to say that it's quite primitive, caveman y drumming.

[Interviewer]

And in the stuff like the ga ga ga ga ga ga ga ga.

[Patrick Walker]

That's very Stuart Springfield.

[Interviewer]

Okay. Because there's a lot of that on Rituals of Shame. So is it like an ode to Stewart in a way? There's a literal ga ga ga ga ga ga ga ga.

[Patrick Walker]

Okay. I don't know. I mean, I. I wouldn't say that.

[Interviewer]

It just feel. It feels like Warning. So it's like a little slice. It's a little piece of home. When you hear.

[Patrick Walker]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Something familiar.

[Patrick Walker]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

So that's unintentional, perhaps.

[Patrick Walker]

Well, I mean, I didn't write the drum. Yeah. But I. I don't think it was intentional. So Stuart leaves the band and Chris joins. And I hear this new dynamic in the drumming and. And I. And I suddenly I. I thought, so much more I can do now. It raised the bar for me somehow. I already had one song written called Take Me In. It was originally a bonus track on the first 40 watt sound record. And we tried rehearsing it with Warning. And I just thought, I need a new band here. Wow. And I. Plus, you know, I had these. I knew what I wanted to do next. I knew where I wanted to go.

[Interviewer]

And you. And you knew already that it had to be a different band.

[Patrick Walker]

Well, I didn't want to be in the same band that I was in when I was 16. I just. I needed to cut. I was still, you know, connected by that same thread that made Revelation Looms. I didn't want to make this 40 watt sign album as that band, but I also wanted to build a new band around me. So I just terminated it very quickly. And we found Will Spong, the bass player, and the three of us start rehearsing. And it was like suddenly I could see the sky and the stars and this. You know, ever since then, I've done my best to surround myself by people that are better than me because, I mean, much better than me. Because it just. It raises the bar and. And subconsciously or otherwise, it influences your songwriting.

[Interviewer]

Do you take any time off between warning and 40 watts night?

[Patrick Walker]

No.

[Interviewer]

No.

[Patrick Walker]

No, we're straight into it. Wow. Yeah. We did the last show in Oslo in January 2009, and then I was rehearsing straight away with Chris and Will.

[Interviewer]

And that would become what would be

[Patrick Walker]

the first Inside Room. Yeah. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

And it's sonically the closest to warning of all of them.

[Patrick Walker]

Well, I think it's important to stress this. People keep saying to me, warning have finally written the follow up or the successor to Watching From a Distance. But the logical and the natural and the emotional successor to Watching From a Distance is the Inside Room. That would have been the next record I made regardless. I just wanted a new band around me. I mean, we'll come on to it later, but the new record is the natural successor to Lil waite, the last 40 watt sun record. It's just part of the same continuum.

[Interviewer]

So you look at this as all canonically, you. You know.

[Patrick Walker]

Yeah, it's all the same thing. It's just. It's a band name. Okay. It's the record I would have made.

[Interviewer]

I get that.

[Patrick Walker]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

I think since we're on 40 watts on, we can keep going. And Inside Room is not currently streaming anywhere.

[Patrick Walker]

No, it's not.

[Interviewer]

You got plans? Is Relapse going to step in or.

[Patrick Walker]

I don't know. I hope so.

[Interviewer]

All right. Me too. There was. This is an interesting tidbit because when you were on Metal Blade for a while. I was on Metal Blade and I was making a record called disharmony in 2015, and we used that label connection to be like, can you get this to Patrick and see if he'll sing on it? And your answer was very kind. It was like, I don't do this. I've done this once. I don't do it unless I'm writing it. Normally everything sucks. This probably sucks the least. Looking forward to hearing it. Good luck, guys. So that was nice.

[Patrick Walker]

Yeah. That's quite brutal. I don't think I said that. No, it wasn't brutal.

[Interviewer]

It was not brutal. It was very much like, this music is very personal to me. And this. This is. I wouldn't feel comfortable singing somebody else's lyrics. And this doesn't suck. I think you did say it doesn't suck, which is. Which is nice.

[Patrick Walker]

Yeah. I remember Mike reaching out and getting in touch with me.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Patrick Walker]

But I don't. You know, I'm not. I'm not really a collaborator.

[Interviewer]

No, that's good. I can tell. Yeah.

[Patrick Walker]

I'm a. You know, that's. I mean, we'll come on. Come on to this in a moment. But it's, you know, I very quickly got fed up with being in a democratic band. I'm a dictator, I'm a song maker. I'm definitely not that. But I've got to have the final say.

[Interviewer]

I got you. Understood. No, that's fair.

[Patrick Walker]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Wider than the sky and you tell me if this makes sense to you. I think this is to 40 watt sun stylistically what washing from a distance is to warning in that even though it was the natural next progress, like Inside Room is what would have come naturally. This is where what I would call the 40 watt sun sound is refined. And it's so interesting that this is a band now. It's not a heavy record, which makes the barrier for entry musically extremely low. And it's inaccessible only in song length because that's just who you are. And to compromise on that would be anti art. And you refused and I really respect that.

[Patrick Walker]

Yeah, I think it's got some of the best songs I've written on it.

[Interviewer]

Amen. Stages. Stages has two bridges. You know,

[Patrick Walker]

my memory of that. I mean, the Inside Room we recorded in just over 24 hours. Wider than the Sky, I think we recorded in four days. And we're in this studio on a farm somewhere very remote in the middle of Wales.

[Interviewer]

And.

[Patrick Walker]

And I've got good memories of making it. It was a nightmare to mix it, really. Yeah, it took a long time.

[Interviewer]

There's a lot going on. There's a lot more going on than ever.

[Patrick Walker]

There is. I mean, people said it's a lot more stripped down than the. Than the Inside Room. There's more guitar on it.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, there's more guitar. It's more percussive.

[Patrick Walker]

Yeah, in a way it is. And besides that, we were in the middle of. We were trying to get out of our deal with the record label because we sent them the album and they, or perhaps it was the album demos, I can't remember. They said, well, we don't like this. It's not the kind of thing we put out, but we will put it out if we have to. And that's not the kind of thank you. That's that. And. And so I, I, I bargained the band out of the deal. I, I gave them, I think I gave them the CD rights for warning for 10 years. I paid them a lump of money and gave them the CD rights to Warning.

[Interviewer]

Brutal Man.

[Patrick Walker]

And. But that was self released and licensed to Svart Records.

[Interviewer]

Okay, Very cool. So Svart steps in heroically in a way.

[Patrick Walker]

Yeah. I can't remember how that Connection came about, to be honest. But ever since that point, up until the last 40 watt sound record, I was licensing my music to them and that includes the warning back catalogue and the next, next 240 watts.

[Interviewer]

But other than that, you've been entirely independent for some time.

[Patrick Walker]

I've been an independent self supporting musician since then.

[Interviewer]

How do you find that? Music is a wacky world right now,

[Patrick Walker]

you know, I mean, it's not easy. No. But I mean, what's the alternative? You know, it's getting a proper job

[Interviewer]

or something working at the plastic factory, you know.

[Patrick Walker]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

There's enough plastic in this world.

[Patrick Walker]

Yeah. Well, you know, there's not a lot I can. I can't really do anything else.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Patrick Walker]

I never went to. You know, I don't have any higher education. Me neither.

[Interviewer]

So that's why I'm doing this.

[Patrick Walker]

Right. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

You know, this is. I'm learning right now. This is my education. So wider than the sky comes out and is. And is discernibly different than anything you've done ever. Do you. Do you recall any kind of emotional response of like, hey, this isn't. Wow, this is different. But I can tell you from my perspective, it was like, I don't think it is. I'm in.

[Patrick Walker]

I never thought of it like that. It just seemed like the logical and natural successor to the first record.

[Interviewer]

Sure.

[Patrick Walker]

But it was. It's, you know, it's less guitary, isn't it? Doesn't have that wall of noise guitar sound.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Patrick Walker]

But I mean the songs are still quintessentially me, I think.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Patrick Walker]

And you know, the, the. I guess the. All the same themes are there and hallmarks.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. You know, and you tell me if I'm crazy here. Are you a Morrissey guy at all?

[Patrick Walker]

I'm a great Smiths fan. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

There's something. There's a thing that I think unites the two of you creatively in that your seldom use of repetition makes it so that if you repeat something it's like, hey. And you say more by doing less a lot of the time, especially on little weight because a lot of the bridges are musical rather than vocal. Perfect light. Some of the shortest songs you've ever written. Does this become conscious?

[Patrick Walker]

No, it just happens.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Patrick Walker]

I think to my mind most of the songs are still, you know, longer than average.

[Interviewer]

Colors is like apart from two.

[Patrick Walker]

Yeah, the four minutes long. Yeah, Colors and I think closure. But there was no. I didn't need to say anything else in the songs. It's just that they didn't need to be longer than that.

[Interviewer]

The bridge riff of colors is that one that the song was written around. Because that thing is nuts.

[Patrick Walker]

Oh, that thing. No, but I did have the. I just had that transition from the verse into that instrumental play out. I loved it. It felt like a little burst of light at the end.

[Interviewer]

Does touring for you change much between Wider Than the Sky? Perfect Light. Are you primarily touring solo? Acoustic.

[Patrick Walker]

So with Wider Than the Sky, we were. I think we did a small tour as a three piece, and we were supposed to have gone on tour with converge in 2016 or 2017, and we pulled out.

[Interviewer]

You like Converge?

[Patrick Walker]

I've never listened to them.

[Interviewer]

Oh, man. Great. Friends of the show.

[Patrick Walker]

I mean, we played festivals together.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, I'm sure you've played Roadblood.

[Patrick Walker]

We had a dressing room with them at Roadblood. Yeah, we didn't do much touring around that record. And then. And then the band fell apart in 2017 or 2016. I beg your pardon?

[Interviewer]

So right when Wider Than sky comes out.

[Patrick Walker]

Oh, yeah.

[Interviewer]

Wow.

[Patrick Walker]

Yeah. Like with. Within a month or two of that coming out. And ever since then, I've been doing it by myself. Wow. Or maybe not by myself, but without a fixed band.

[Interviewer]

Sure. Okay. But you've got a gaggle of goons you can. You can pull from.

[Patrick Walker]

Yeah, sure. Yeah. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Patrick Walker]

And sometimes I meet people and. And you just, you know, you put them in the memory bank because.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, you can put me in there.

[Patrick Walker]

Yeah, I will do.

[Interviewer]

Here, Put me in there. And the future now. Now both bands are coexisting for the first time.

[Patrick Walker]

There wasn't really any crossovers we started. We had 18 months of morning shows of rehearsal and touring from 2017 to 2018.

[Interviewer]

So does. Oh, that's.

[Host]

This.

[Interviewer]

That brings up a good point. Is that. That's when the live watching from a distance stuff all happened.

[Patrick Walker]

Yeah, it is.

[Interviewer]

Does that come out of the. The sort of sudden implosion of 40 watts on.

[Patrick Walker]

No, no, it was. It was already on the cards and we'd announced the. I think that had been announced. I think the Roadburn show had been announced already. I can't remember the exact chronology of everything, but that's okay. But the. Yeah, I mean, you know, there was no crossover, so, you know, there was no coexisting, so to speak.

[Interviewer]

Okay, but now. I mean, right now the bands are coexisting for the first time.

[Patrick Walker]

Well, I guess so.

[Interviewer]

But.

[Patrick Walker]

But. Well, they are. But I'm touring by myself.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, sure. And the man is coexisting for the first time.

[Patrick Walker]

Yeah. And I made the. I made the last Morning record, the last 40 watt sun record I've played. I've made both records with the same drama.

[Interviewer]

Right. So it's the same process, just a different result.

[Patrick Walker]

Sure. It's the same thing. Sure, yeah, sure.

[Interviewer]

Okay, well, what made now, 20 years later, time for the first new Warning record since Watching from a distance.

[Patrick Walker]

You know, 2014 had been an enormous year for me and as it got to the end of the year, the last couple of months, I just, I began to get that, that familiar itch that I get when I want to start making a new record. Because I don't, I don't write songs if I'm not making a record. It's, you know, I, I'm all, I'm all, I'm. If I'm making music, I'm making a record.

[Interviewer]

You're an album guy. You think in albums now?

[Patrick Walker]

Yeah. Well, what I mean is I don't, I don't, you know, I, I wouldn't go home now and work on a song really. I mean, I might write down ideas in a notebook, but I'm not, I don't. An album is generally very reflective of the time that I made it. Do you know what I mean?

[Interviewer]

I really do.

[Patrick Walker]

And I just, I knew I wanted to make a new record and I knew that I wanted to make a heavy record.

[Interviewer]

Why now? Why heavy? What triggers that inspiration?

[Patrick Walker]

I don't know. I think because what I wanted to express or try to articulate what I wanted to do in the context of heavy music, you know, I don't want to overthink it because I don't want to sound, you know, over dramatic or,

[Interviewer]

you know, you're an emotional, dramatic guy. We've all heard that's okay.

[Patrick Walker]

I don't know. I knew I wanted to make a heavy record.

[Interviewer]

Okay. The why is not important. The what is what matters, you know?

[Patrick Walker]

Well, maybe the why is important, but, you know, I don't know if I want to go there.

[Interviewer]

Sure.

[Patrick Walker]

But the, and, but I mean, the big question for me, for me was do I work towards this with it being the next 40 watt sun record, or do I put it out as a warning record? If I put it out as a warning record, can I do this by myself? I need, I don't have the, I need the leverage of a, of a good label behind me, you know, not just like moral support, like financial support. Yeah, it'll be a different thing and probably bigger than I can do by myself. And so when I decided to make a, to make it a new warning record. That's when I approached Freelapse.

[Interviewer]

Great place to be.

[Patrick Walker]

Yeah, it really is.

[Interviewer]

They've been. They've taken care of you.

[Patrick Walker]

They've been wonderful. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

And they got the back catalog too.

[Patrick Walker]

Yeah, that was in the initial offer that they gave me.

[Interviewer]

Very good.

[Patrick Walker]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Well, it'll be out upon time of release of this, so. Rituals of Shame. The timing and you know, this is going to get a little heavy. Timing of this could not be more poetic. And I don't know what you went through before that went into making this record, but. Stations, the first single from this record released April 7th. This young man passed away on April 1st, so I'm in Chicago for his funeral as I'm listening to this for the first time. Your first song in 20 years before hitting play. Like I already felt it, you know. And then this song makes me feel like I'm like communicating through you in a way. You know, the talking about vast emptiness. Endless miles. Endless miles. Whatever. You leave me, you leave me alive.

[Patrick Walker]

Oh, good Lord.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, I know.

[Patrick Walker]

I. I was. I. I remember I had the. At the second half of the song written. Not the lyrics, but I had the song, the music. And I was just leaving my. My house to. To go and catch a train and I was about five paces outside the front door and. And. And. And the verse popped into my head. It just fell out the sky and

[Interviewer]

Isn't it the best?

[Patrick Walker]

And I went. It's strange. And I went back and I missed my train and. And I. And that's how that happened. The words I had. I had a whole bunch of words. Sometimes I write words to fit a song and with that I certainly. The last half. I guess what you'd call the bridge or the footprints went there. That would be the. I had those lyrics written and they were. And they were phrased to. They were phrased around the song, which doesn't. It rarely happens for me. I did it on the last song on the first album. This alone was almost written as a solid block of versified prose. Almost sure wall of text turned to

[Interviewer]

song continues the pattern of opening with the title track.

[Patrick Walker]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Is this another situation where this is the first composition done for the record and that's. And it becomes that.

[Patrick Walker]

I don't remember. I don't. I don't remember writing songs like that. I went back and forth between all of them and, you know, I'd have parts of things written but then didn't know how to complete them. And so I was always moving back. I Don't think I ever sat down and wrote a song from start to finish ever. Maybe I probably have done, but I can't think of an example of it.

[Interviewer]

It really, I mean, does it ever. You mentioned on your way to the train. For me it's like I think I've written my best work in the movie theater. Trying not to. Trying to think about the movie but being distracted by a riff or driving or in the shower rather than when I sit down with intention to write something.

[Patrick Walker]

Yeah. I think most of my, maybe not most of them, but so many of my ideas come when I'm out walking or, you know, you don't. Like I said in the film, you don't stop working just because you, you don't have a guitar in your hands. There's the, the minds always working, always against your will.

[Interviewer]

Sometimes.

[Patrick Walker]

Yeah, it's a, it's a. I mean it's painful. That's where so much stuff comes from.

[Interviewer]

Sure. You mentioned sitting on songs for months or years. Is there a song on this record or Little Weight or something that comes to mind of like a multi year science project?

[Patrick Walker]

No, this record was literally written in, you know, I mean the music was written in three months.

[Interviewer]

So you gave yourself the same exact deadline that Watching from a Distance had.

[Patrick Walker]

It was the same pattern that I did the last 40 watt sun record. So I started working at the start of January.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Patrick Walker]

And the first thing I did was book the studio for rehearsals and demoing and then booked it again for recording. So I had to work to those two deadlines, I guess. I think it was like the 14th of January through to the end of March. I went on tour in Europe for a month in April, got back the second week in May and then I had four weeks just to pull everything together before going into the studio with my drummer.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Patrick Walker]

That's where I taught him the songs, we worked on the arrangements.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Is grief ever a central theme of what you're writing?

[Patrick Walker]

Only in bridges.

[Interviewer]

Only in bridges.

[Patrick Walker]

Only in bridges.

[Interviewer]

So that, ah, that painful.

[Patrick Walker]

Ah, but that's a lot, you know, a lot of rubbish gets, you know, talked about with regards to my songs and I've read or heard people refer to things as being like, you know, watching from a distance is about the five stages of grief or some crap like that. It's rubbish, you know, it's love and grief. It's always love.

[Interviewer]

It's always love.

[Patrick Walker]

It's always love.

[Interviewer]

Or better or worse. It's always, you know. Is it currently for better?

[Patrick Walker]

Oh, well, I mean Yeah, I mean, there's. There's for sure.

[Interviewer]

And you said you talked about your girlfriend earlier. She. Was she familiar with your work before you started dating?

[Patrick Walker]

I think she was aware of it, but not familiar with it.

[Interviewer]

Did she become familiar with it and be like.

[Patrick Walker]

Well, she had no choice because we toured together for, oh, around the States for. For six weeks. Okay. And we toured Europe for a month, so she had to hear it every night.

[Interviewer]

Okay. Good Lord, Patrick. Yeah, I was. I was struck. And I don't know if you can tell on camera what a big guy you are. People often surprised, I mean, how you're strapping.

[Patrick Walker]

I mean, I'm 6x damn. But I'm, you know, I'm not in good shape.

[Interviewer]

No, that's not true. In the doom world, you're Arnold Schwarzenegger, you know.

[Patrick Walker]

I know, but I mean, that's not a good benchmark, is it?

[Interviewer]

Well, even Britishly, you're doing great. I can tell you abstain from the biscuits. Do you feel after rituals of shame that you've gotten this itch to make heavy music out of your system or is it open the floodgates for more?

[Patrick Walker]

Yeah, I had three other songs that were incomplete, but they were my reserves for when I went to the studio in June last year with Andrew to show him the songs and to demo the album. I had three more songs in reserve in case something didn't work out. I'd like to use them.

[Interviewer]

I'd like for you to use them.

[Patrick Walker]

Yeah. Okay.

[Interviewer]

So where do you. Where do you go from here now? Is it just do these anniversary shows and back to 40 watt sun, back to acoustic solo as often as possible?

[Patrick Walker]

Yeah, I'd love to tour. The touring, as you know, is expensive and I don't have another job, so I've got to.

[Interviewer]

You gotta do it.

[Patrick Walker]

I've got to do it. And if I can tour by myself.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Patrick Walker]

Then I'm always gonna do that.

[Interviewer]

That's the dream.

[Patrick Walker]

Well, you know, I don't have to pay anyone else.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Patrick Walker]

And not to sound, you know, mercenary or anything or, you know, there's always got to be a financial interest in what I do because I. I don't have anything coming in from elsewhere.

[Interviewer]

Sure.

[Patrick Walker]

I'd love to tour the band again.

[Interviewer]

Do you talk to Stuart at all?

[Patrick Walker]

No, I haven't spoken to him in. In 16 years or something like that.

[Interviewer]

So there's been no correspondence about this new album with him?

[Patrick Walker]

Oh, God, no. Okay. I don't know what he's doing.

[Interviewer]

Okay, understood. Well, I think we're winding down over here after this lovely, lovely chat. Are you a spiritual or supernatural guy at all?

[Patrick Walker]

I think the easiest answer is that I'm a very hardened atheist.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, yeah, same.

[Patrick Walker]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Except for the. I love a ghost. You know, I think God.

[Patrick Walker]

Yeah. That's why. I mean, I. I mean it's a. Yeah, sure, I do. But I, and, but I love the. I was brought up going to church.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Patrick Walker]

And, and I still have a huge emotional connection. And, and, and too. And, and love the, the cultural heritage of the church. So I love the.

[Interviewer]

I mean, look at this.

[Patrick Walker]

For sure.

[Interviewer]

Good stuff.

[Patrick Walker]

I love sacred music. I love, I love the artwork. I love visiting churches. I love the scriptures and the parables and the passion story.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. A story at the end of the day, sure.

[Patrick Walker]

Yeah. But it's like it's. I respond to it as you do, like a Shakespearean tragedy or a great Greek drama or something.

[Interviewer]

It's no different. It's the greatest. It's one of the sci fi story of all the time, you know?

[Patrick Walker]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

It's a space opera on earth. Have you ever seen a ghost? Britain, Scary place, man.

[Patrick Walker]

I don't know. I don't know.

[Interviewer]

Have you ever seen what you would interpret as a ghost?

[Patrick Walker]

No. I mean, I don't even know what a ghost is, but I've had some uncanny experiences.

[Interviewer]

Tell me about.

[Patrick Walker]

I don't know, I can't.

[Interviewer]

No, because you sound like they're kook or what?

[Patrick Walker]

Well, no, I mean, I think that the experience would be.

[Interviewer]

You want it to happen again. You don't want it to. You don't want it.

[Patrick Walker]

You know, I sound like an idiot.

[Interviewer]

You know, I mean, listen, there's been idiots on this show and you're not one of them. Let's. Okay, so we're doing this very different today as Patrick is a doom legend. Can I. Can you tell me, to end this episode, your four favorite doom metal records of all time?

[Patrick Walker]

Yeah, I'm sure I can Never Come Silence by Revelation is one of my favorite records of all time and one of the most important pieces of art that I ever heard or experienced. The first Penance album, the Road Less Traveled. The second Tribal album, the Skull, and I don't know, a fourth, the first unorthodox album, asylum.

[Interviewer]

You heard it here.

[Patrick Walker]

That's it.

[Interviewer]

That's law. To end this episode. This is a fun anecdote from my brother who was supposed to be here today. At one point, he played for a band called Nails. At one point, who played with you at Roskilda or something. And you were walking up to the stage, I believe, and I think maybe you just had an unexpressive emotion on your face. And he was with a fellow named Jamie Goetz. I don't know if you know Jamie Getz from Philadelphia.

[Patrick Walker]

Yes, I do know Jamie.

[Interviewer]

And Jamie said, why so glum? And my brother said something along the lines of, haven't you heard his music? And you didn't crack a smile. Are you just kidding? It was a very. It was a physical fuck you and move on. But Patrick, can't thank you enough for being here today.

[Patrick Walker]

Well, thank you for having me.

[Host]

Oh, my God.

[Interviewer]

Anytime. Every time. Rituals of shame is out June 19th 19th, which is a few days ago, based on when this is out. 40 watt sun is on tour all the time. Sometimes. Sometimes in Grand Rapids when I'm two hours away. It's unbelievable. You can catch Patrick hopefully somewhere near you. I hope I can catch are all the watching from a distance anniversary shows

[Patrick Walker]

announced before I started working on the record, I was planning on doing some anniversary shows, but they like none of them ever materialized. So all of the shows are essentially a mix of older new songs.

[Interviewer]

Which is great because now that I really think if you connected with Warning in any way, you're gonna connect to this record. I certainly have Patrick Walker, one of my guys, one of my top lads. Love his work so much. You all do too. Thank you so much for joining us.

[Patrick Walker]

Thank you.

[Interviewer]

Bristles are saying out now. Relapse Records. Have a great day. Bye.