21st Precinct 53-07-28 (004) The Twins

Summary

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Podcast Summary: 21st Precinct 53-07-28 (004) The Twins

Podcast: Harold's Old Time Radio
Release Date: February 22, 2026
Episode Theme:
A harrowing tragedy unfolds in New York’s 21st Precinct as the police investigate the tragic deaths of twin infants. The episode intricately explores the facts, emotions, and misunderstandings leading up to—and following—the death of the children, unraveling a tale of poverty, heartbreak, and unintentional consequence in postwar urban America.

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Main Theme and Purpose

This episode is a dramatization of a police procedural from the golden age of radio, immersing listeners in the tense, emotional, and methodical work of New York City’s 21st Precinct. "The Twins" centers around the mysterious and untimely deaths of infant twins, exploring the social circumstances and interpersonal conflicts surrounding the case, and ultimately revealing how well-intentioned actions can yield tragic results.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

Setting the Scene: The Call Comes In

• [00:35–03:13]
  • Captain Kennelly and his officers receive an emergency call regarding two distressed infants at a tenement on E76th Street.
  • The building is typical for the era: poor, crowded, families making do with little.
  • Kennelly describes his precinct and the daily mix of people—underscoring the city’s human complexity.

Discovery of the Twins and Initial Investigation

• [03:13–05:14]
  • Inside, officers find Mrs. Ruth Lucas, a grieving and exhausted young mother, and medical personnel working fruitlessly to revive the twins.
  • The twin boys, only nine weeks old, have stopped breathing; authorities try respirators while gathering facts.
  • Mrs. Lucas’s husband, an airman, died months earlier. She’d been caring for the twins alone, improvising their crib using dresser drawers.
  • "She said that since she brought the twins home from the hospital, she'd been keeping them in a couple of dresser drawers." (Captain Kennelly, 04:33)

Mrs. Lucas’s Account

• [05:09–10:00]
  • Mrs. Lucas explains her dire financial straits and her careful, if makeshift, attempts to protect her babies, including blanketing the drawers.
  • She had just planned to buy a real crib that very day after receiving a small government benefit.
  • The mother describes her last day: she left the twins in neighbor Mrs. Gonzalez’s care while she attempted to seek some respite with a friend, Dan Talbot.
  • The details suggest exhaustion and a sense of being overwhelmed, ending with the unresolved question of what went wrong that night.

Verification and Reaction to the Deaths

• [11:43–13:25]
  • Dr. Mustico confirms both babies are dead, likely from suffocation, though there’s no external evidence. Autopsies are ordered.
  • Captain Kennelly reflects on the pain of delivering such news—a core element of the job that “never gets easier.”
  • "There's one thing that never gets easier. That's telling a mother her kid is dead." (Captain Kennelly, 12:56)

Suspicion and Accusation - Mrs. Gonzalez’s Claims

• [13:25–15:44]
  • Mrs. Mary Gonzalez, who watched the twins that night, asserts that Mrs. Lucas didn’t want her children, suggesting she may have harmed them to please her suitor, Dan Talbot.
  • She insists Lucas came home late, “way after midnight,” and appeared to be drinking.
  • Mrs. Gonzalez’s bitterness over perceived ingratitude and her personal investment in the twins’ welfare become apparent.
  • "She wanted to marry this Dan Probert, but he didn't want any ready made family. She told me that herself." (Mrs. Gonzalez, 13:59)

Interview with Dan Talbot

• [17:58–22:50]
  • Dan Talbot, Mrs. Lucas’s friend, is brought in for questioning. He’s sympathetic but pragmatic, explaining that their potential marriage was complicated by the twins and the resulting financial issues.
  • Talbot admits he told Mrs. Lucas he couldn't take on someone else's children, believing it would only "lead to trouble."
  • "If we got married, it could only lead to trouble. I'll tell you something, Danny. You didn't get married, and it still led to trouble." (Lt. King, 22:36)

Breakthrough: The Truth About the Pillows

• [23:38–28:27]
  • Mrs. Gonzalez, fixated on retrieving baby items she gave or loaned to Mrs. Lucas, reveals she had made two special down pillows for the twins and secretly placed them in the drawers the previous night.
  • The realization dawns: the unseen addition of thick, soft pillows raised the babies, possibly positioning them too close to the overlaid blanket, causing accidental suffocation.
  • "You mean that I caused the babies to smother?" (Mrs. Gonzalez, 28:19)
  • "That's right. You did." (Captain Kennelly, 28:21)
  • The story closes with mutual heartbreak and forgiveness; it was no one’s intention, only a tragic oversight.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the precinct’s human scale:
  • "What makes a city? Not buildings, not subways, not business. People make a city ... The rich and the poor and the good and the bad pour their lives together and stir up the city."
    — Captain Kennelly, [01:07]
• On the weight of police work:
  • "The longer you're in the job, the easier it is to do the hard things. But there's one thing that never gets easier. That's telling a mother her kid is dead."
    — Captain Kennelly, [12:56]
• Turning point (re: accidental suffocation):
  • "Now, with them down that much lower, there was plenty of room for them to breathe. When the yellow blanket was pulled tight over the top. Put them back and they were up pretty close to the yellow blanket. Close enough to cause trouble."
    — Captain Kennelly, [27:18]
• Mrs. Gonzalez’s realization:
  • "You mean that I caused the babies to smother?"
    — Mrs. Gonzalez, [28:19]
  • "That's right. You did."
    — Captain Kennelly, [28:21]
  • (Her shock and grief mirror that of the mother, underlining the episode’s tragic irony.)

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Important Segment Timestamps

• [00:35] Call comes in; Captain Kennelly’s introduction to the precinct
• [03:13]–[05:14] Officers and doc attempt to revive twins; scene inside Lucas apartment
• [05:09]–[10:00] Mrs. Lucas recounts events leading up to the incident
• [11:43] Medical officer confirms the twins’ deaths
• [13:25] Mrs. Gonzalez accuses Mrs. Lucas
• [17:58]–[22:50] Interview with Dan Talbot
• [23:38]–[28:27] Discovery about the pillows and revelation of accident

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Concluding Thoughts

Through richly drawn dialogue and emotionally charged scenes, this episode of "21st Precinct" dramatizes not only the procedural mechanics of police investigation but also the complex, often tragic, realities of poverty, motherhood, and human error. The authenticity of everyday struggles and heartfelt motivations, combined with the slow unveiling of the true cause behind the twins’ deaths, make for a compelling, gut-wrenching narrative.

Listeners are left with a powerful tale about unintended consequences and the ever-present shadow of tragedy in ordinary lives—a hallmark of the golden age of radio realism.

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Transcript

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[Captain Kennelly]

21st Precinct. Sergeant Klein. Yes, ma'.

[Mrs. Mary Gonzalez]

Am.

[Captain Kennelly]

It isn't gas. What's the address? Six 1. You are in the muster room at the 21st Precinct. The nerve center call is coming in. You will follow the action taken pursuant to that call from this minute until the final report is written in the 124 room at the 21st Precinct. All right, ma'. Am. You'll have assistance there right away. Yes, ma', am, right away. 21st Precinct. It's just lines on a map of the city of New York. Most of the 173,000 people wedged into the 9/10 of a square mile between Fifth Avenue and the east river wouldn't know if you asked them that they lived or worked in the 21st. Whether they know it or not, the security of their persons, their homes and their property is. Is my job. My job and the job of the 160 patrolmen. Eleven sergeants and four lieutenants of whom I'm the boss. My name is Kennelly. Frank Kennelly. I'm captain in Command of the 21st. What makes a city? Not buildings, not subways, not business. People make a city. From dawn to midnight, from midnight to dawn, the rich and the poor and the good and the bad pour their lives together and stir up the city. As in the 21st. I was out of the precinct, on my way to division headquarters. There was a meeting of precinct commanders in connection with new regulations for the supervision of cabarets and dance halls. It was 8:38am when the radio call went out through one precinct. By 313 and 314, we had to fix one port. All right, turn around, Johnny. Take a look. When we turned into 76, I could see we had plenty of men on the job. Two sector cars from the precinct were in front of 614 and old law Tenement. So was the sergeant's car. Ahead of them were the emergency service car and an AM you stay with the car, Johnny. Police officer. Excuse me. Coming through there. Police officer. What do we got? Colleen. A couple of kids. Captain Gaskets. Stay back, folks. There's nothing to see. Nobody's been down since I was posted, Captain. I haven't heard anything.

[Mrs. Mary Gonzalez]

Thanks.

[Captain Kennelly]

Oh, Coley, stop in and see me after the tour, will you? Yes. Stand back there, folks. There's nothing to see. It's all. The house was no better, no worse than the thousand others like it. No cleaner, no dirtier. Even at that time of the morning, you could smell cabbage cooking. Somebody's always cooking cabbage. It's cheap. At the top of the stairs, a cop was posted in front of the rear flat. On the second floor. All the neighbors had been shooed back behind their own doors. In the kitchen, a young woman, her hair in curlers and wearing a faded housecoat, sat in the corner, sobbing. In the other room, the ESD men on the ambulance surgeon were laboring desperately with respirator equipment. Sergeant Burns was standing in the doorway between the two rooms. What have we got, Sergeant? Two kids? Yes, sir, said the mother. Yeah, they're twins. Two boys, nine weeks old. How are they? I don't think it looks good. Let me try my pulse again. Here. Yes, that's good. Hold it there. All right. Where's the father? There's a corporal in the air Force killed in the crash in Alaska seven or eight months ago. She said that since she brought the twins home from the hospital, she'd been keeping them in a couple of dresser drawers.

[Mrs. Ruth Lucas]

These.

[Captain Kennelly]

She said she put the two drawers on the table at night, right next to each other. Each of the twins got wrapped tight in a blanket in his own drawer. Then she uses this yellow blanket across the top of both the drawers. That's what knocked them out. Blanket on top. What's her name? Lucas. Mrs. Ruth Lucas. Let's talk to her. Something. How's it look, Doc? Not very good, Sergeant. Come on. Misses Lucas, this is Captain Kennelly.

[Mrs. Ruth Lucas]

Oh, my baby. They're dead, aren't they?

[Captain Kennelly]

The doctor and the emergency squad are trying to save them. Respirator still working.

[Mrs. Ruth Lucas]

Poor little baby.

[Captain Kennelly]

We'd like to find out how this thing happened, Ms. L.

[Mrs. Ruth Lucas]

If you want. I don't care. I was just going out today to buy a crib for them. I cut out an ad from the Mirror last night. That symbol for having a sale on baby things. I was going down there today. The ads are my pocketbook in there if you want to see it.

[Captain Kennelly]

No, no.

[Mrs. Ruth Lucas]

Not going, if you don't mind. I think I ought to have my pocketbook anywhere. I. I cast my check from the government yesterday. There's $100 in my pocketbook. More than 100.

[Captain Kennelly]

Where is the pocketbook?

[Mrs. Ruth Lucas]

In there on the dress.

[Captain Kennelly]

Would you get it, Sergeant? Yes, sir, right away. How much do you get from the government, Ms. Lucas?

[Mrs. Ruth Lucas]

Altogether, you mean?

[Captain Kennelly]

Yeah, altogether.

[Mrs. Ruth Lucas]

From both Social Security and the pension, it comes to about $145.

[Captain Kennelly]

A month?

[Mrs. Ruth Lucas]

Yes, a month. That's for me and the baby. As soon as the checks come, I pay the rent. That's what I did yesterday. The rent and the little bill at the candy store. There's about $100 left.

[Captain Kennelly]

Is this it?

[Mrs. Ruth Lucas]

Yeah, that's it. Thank you very much. Did. Did you talk to the doctor? Is there any such?

[Captain Kennelly]

You know, he was busy. Oh, as long as you've got your pocketbook. Ms. Lucas, you said you wanted to show me that ad.

[Mrs. Ruth Lucas]

Oh. Oh, yes. I was going to get Mrs. Banderas to come and stay with him this morning while I went downtown. He stays with him when I have to go out. It's very nice for me. He lives upstairs on the fourth floor. This is the ad. It was in the mirror.

[Captain Kennelly]

All your money there.

[Mrs. Ruth Lucas]

Oh, yeah, I'm sure it is.

[Captain Kennelly]

Well, maybe you ought to look anyway. There are a lot of people walking through here this morning.

[Mrs. Ruth Lucas]

Yeah, it's all here. A funny time to be worrying about money. I'm sorry.

[Captain Kennelly]

Well, you've always got to worry about money. Weather's been pretty warm out, Ms. Lucas. Seems to me you have them wrapped up in a lot of blankets.

[Mrs. Ruth Lucas]

They've got to be kept warm. They're so young. It was a blanket for each. The blue ones, I always wrapped those around them. And then I always put the yellow one over the top of the drawers, you know.

[Captain Kennelly]

Did you tuck it in under the drawers? The yellow blanket?

[Mrs. Ruth Lucas]

Yeah. I've never touched them. That's why I can't understand how it happened. It never came more than this close to them. It was just to keep away any drafts. And there was at least this much open space over their head. Only thing I can figure is they're getting so they can kick a little. One of them must have kicked it.

[Captain Kennelly]

You know you put them to bed last night?

[Mrs. Ruth Lucas]

Yes, about six o' clock and then about eight Mr. Consecret came. Stayed with him for a couple of hours.

[Captain Kennelly]

Where were you?

[Mrs. Ruth Lucas]

I went out with a friend of mine.

[Captain Kennelly]

Where?

[Mrs. Mary Gonzalez]

You know, around.

[Mrs. Ruth Lucas]

We went to movies. We went and had some teeth and

[Mrs. Mary Gonzalez]

a bottle of beer.

[Captain Kennelly]

Girlfriend?

[Mrs. Ruth Lucas]

No. Mad girl I met after Harry died.

[Captain Kennelly]

What's his name?

[Mrs. Ruth Lucas]

Why?

[Captain Kennelly]

Oh, just wanted to know.

[Mrs. Ruth Lucas]

Oh, Dan. Dan Torper.

[Captain Kennelly]

Where is he now?

[Mrs. Ruth Lucas]

Work, I guess. He's a mechanic. He works for taxi company.

[Captain Kennelly]

What?

[Mrs. Ruth Lucas]

Taxi company Ace, something like that.

[Mrs. Mary Gonzalez]

I don't know.

[Captain Kennelly]

Where does he live?

[Mrs. Ruth Lucas]

Uptown in the Bronx. I don't see what he has to do with it. He had nothing to do with it. He's just a friend of mine that. Could you hand me that box of shoes, please?

[Captain Kennelly]

Yeah, sure.

[Mrs. Ruth Lucas]

Thanks. I don't get it. I just don't. The babies were all right when I came home. Mrs. Danzales takes good care of them. She said she changed them and she gave him a bottle about 11:30 and they went off to sleep again. I just don't get it.

[Captain Kennelly]

What time did Dan bring you home, Ms. Lucas?

[Mrs. Ruth Lucas]

I don't know exactly. It was before midnight, I think. A little before midnight.

[Captain Kennelly]

Did he come upstairs with you?

[Mrs. Ruth Lucas]

Why? For what?

[Captain Kennelly]

Just wanted to know.

[Mrs. Ruth Lucas]

So he came up quite a while after Mrs. Gonzalez left.

[Captain Kennelly]

What'd you talk about?

[Mrs. Ruth Lucas]

Dan and me, you mean?

[Captain Kennelly]

Yeah.

[Mrs. Ruth Lucas]

Nothing in for. But you're at this talk, that's all.

[Captain Kennelly]

You. You got up this morning about 8:30. That's kind of late for the mother of two infants to get up, isn't it?

[Mrs. Ruth Lucas]

I never set the alarm. The babies are my alarm clock. They usually wake up about 6 o' clock or so and I hear them cross. Poor kid.

[Captain Kennelly]

I don't care, Sergeant, you're not. Can I see you a minute? For sure, sir. Please, Captain. Okay. Excuse me, Ms. Lucas. I'll be right back.

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[Captain Kennelly]

Well, how's it look, Captain Canello? Dr. Mustico. Vladimir. Yeah, well, they're both dead. They were DOA. It wasn't even any years time. You have any idea what the cause of death was? I don't know. It wasn't anything external. Probably suffocation. I'm going to pack up. You'll notify the medical examiner, Sergeant? Yeah, yeah, sure. I'm sorry. There wasn't anything that could be done. I know. Yeah. Excuse me, I've got to pack up. Rough deal, Captain? Yeah. After you call the M.E. sergeant, notify the detectives. Tell them we've got two suspicious deaths, possible homicide. The longer you're in the job, the easier it is to do the hard things. But there's one thing that never gets easier. That's telling a mother her kid is dead. I told Mrs. Ruth Lucas that both of hers were dead. I left Sergeant Burns in charge with instructions to wait for the arrival of the medical examiner. And the detectives sector men were ordered to resume patrol. On the way downstairs, I thought of a squeal. I investigated as a detective before the war. A mother, girl from a good hard working family. Couldn't stand her baby crying day and night. She grabbed him by the throat and strangled him. That was messier. But the twins were just as dead.

[Mrs. Mary Gonzalez]

She did.

[Mrs. Ruth Lucas]

She did.

[Mrs. Mary Gonzalez]

I tell you she did.

[Captain Kennelly]

All right, lady, you'll get a chance to tell your story. Oh, hello, Captain.

[Mrs. Mary Gonzalez]

Captain? Are you the Captain?

[Captain Kennelly]

Yes, that's right. Coley, keep the people moving. Yes, sir.

[Mrs. Ruth Lucas]

Kill those babies.

[Mrs. Mary Gonzalez]

I know it.

[Captain Kennelly]

That's a very serious accusation, ma'. Am.

[Mrs. Mary Gonzalez]

I'm making it.

[Captain Kennelly]

What's your name?

[Mrs. Mary Gonzalez]

Mrs. Gonzalez. Mrs. Mary Gonzalez.

[Captain Kennelly]

You're the woman who stayed with the babies last night.

[Mrs. Mary Gonzalez]

That's right. I stayed with them all the time. I love those babies. He had no use for them. No use at all.

[Captain Kennelly]

Well, that doesn't mean she killed it, Mrs. Gonzalez.

[Mrs. Mary Gonzalez]

Oh, don't it? She wanted to marry this Dan Probert, but he didn't want any ready made family. She told me that herself.

[Captain Kennelly]

When did she tell you that?

[Mrs. Mary Gonzalez]

Last night. Before that even.

[Captain Kennelly]

Look, Mrs. Gonzales, I'd like You to talk to the detectives who are handling this. Have you got time to come to the station house? Now?

[Mrs. Mary Gonzalez]

Right now.

[Captain Kennelly]

I'll give you a lift in my car.

[Mrs. Mary Gonzalez]

I was just going out to the butcher.

[Captain Kennelly]

All right. The detectives will come around to see you.

[Mrs. Mary Gonzalez]

Oh, I'll go. I'll go now.

[Captain Kennelly]

Okay. Come on. Don't forget to stop in, Coley. Yes, sir.

[Mrs. Mary Gonzalez]

I love those babies.

[Mrs. Ruth Lucas]

Couldn't have loved them off.

[Mrs. Mary Gonzalez]

They're my own grandchildren. And I got two grandchildren in Jersey City.

[Captain Kennelly]

What time did she get home last night?

[Mrs. Mary Gonzalez]

After midnight. Way after midnight.

[Captain Kennelly]

Ms. Lucas said it was before midnight.

[Mrs. Mary Gonzalez]

Oh. Oh, thank you. It was after. I came at eight o'. Clock. Skimmy. A dollar and a quarter for five hours. That goes to show you I love those babies.

[Captain Kennelly]

Station house.

[Mrs. Mary Gonzalez]

Johnny wouldn't mind children for that.

[Mrs. Ruth Lucas]

Unless I love them.

[Mrs. Mary Gonzalez]

And I was always bringing them things. Toys and clothes and things like that.

[Captain Kennelly]

She told me that Dan Talbot came home with her last night. Ms. Gonzalez?

[Mrs. Mary Gonzalez]

Yes. I pronounce it John. Say, I'm not Spanish. You see, that was my husband's name. My second husband's name, rest his soul.

[Captain Kennelly]

Did they say anything in your presence?

[Mrs. Mary Gonzalez]

Well, no. When they came to go, gave me the dollar and a quarter and I went upstairs. But I could smell liquor on her breath.

[Captain Kennelly]

Was she drunk?

[Mrs. Mary Gonzalez]

Well, she'd been drinking.

[Captain Kennelly]

I could see that.

[Mrs. Mary Gonzalez]

And I could see she didn't love him. I loved him. I spent more money on him. She ever paid me a lot more. She killed them. I know she killed them.

[Mrs. Ruth Lucas]

She must.

[Captain Kennelly]

The woman continued talking all the way to the station house. She told me everything she knew and everything she suspended. She ran the gamut from fact to rumor to guess. When we got there, I took her upstairs to the officer, Lieutenant Matt King, who commanded the 21st Detective Squad. Then I walked down the rickety stairs through the back room. 2 Division plane clothesmen had a sharply dressed policy rider there. Prior to booking, the 124 man was posting the newest teletype alarm. I walked out into the muster room. Sergeant Klein on the boxes waved at me and I walked over. Couple of messages for you, Captain. Yeah? Fall division headquarters. Okay. Mrs. Franklin called. She says she's president of the PS181. Parent teachers. Oh, yeah. Call her back, Sergeant, and tell her the order came through. We're posting a patrolman of that crossing before and after school beginning Monday. Yes, sir. And Father Tanachi called and asked whether you'd like to speak to the Boys Club this Wednesday or next Wednesday. Either date is open. Well, which did he prefer? He didn't say anything, Captain. All right, I'll phone him. Oh, get me into Vision. Okay, Captain. This is the 21st Precinct. Captain Kennelly to speak to Deputy Chief Inspector D'. Andrea. Where do you take it, Captain? In your office? No, I'll take it here. Captain Kennelly. Hello, Chief. Yes, sir. Yeah, well, I was on my way.

[Mrs. Mary Gonzalez]

I.

[Captain Kennelly]

Well, we had what looks like a double homicide. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Well, I can come now. Oh, all right, Chief. I'll send my clerical man. Yes, sir. Right away. Sergeant, send McCarty up the division to get notes on the meeting of precinct commanders who just broke up. Yes, I'll be in my office. 21st Precinct. Sergeant Klein, Sergeant Burns on the 614 E76. Brains and the M.E. showed up. I turned it over to them. I'm going back on the street. Well, give the street my love. What's with you? The chief just chewed out the skipper.

[Mrs. Ruth Lucas]

Oh.

[Captain Kennelly]

That all? I'll see you. A precinct commander's job runs from A to Z and back again. During the morning, I approved the plans of the precinct youth patrolman for neighborhood softball teams. I listened to a delegation from St. Anthony's on their application to close off 80th street for a block party. And I wrote out my recommendation for departmental recognition of a patrolman. In the meantime, the investigation into the death of the twins continued. The bodies had been removed to Bellevue Morgue for autopsy. Detectives brought the mother to the station house for further interrogation by Lt. King. While she was upstairs, another detective brought in dan Talbot. Lt. King preferred that he not see Ms. Lucas at the moment. So Talbot was asked to wait in my office while I signed reports. He sat there waiting for Lt. King to come downstairs and talk with him. Yes? Busy, Captain. Oh, Coley, I'll be right out. Yes, sir. You sit here, Dan. How long will it be? Do you know? I don't like to miss the time on the job. All right, Corey. Captain, some fellow who works in the laundry over on York Avenue told me that Mrs. Canvale is in the neighborhood. You want to thank him? Yeah. Detectives know about that? Look, Coley, a loan company in Flushing rode in and said you were three payments behind on a note. He had sickness in the family, and the bills piled up. Captain, I thought it was for a washing machine. Well, the note was yes, sir, but she got sick afterwards. I'm gonna get straightened out when I'm peg day. I told him that. I'll see that you do. We don't want any more letters or Coley yes, sir. Don't say you're going to take care of it and not do it. If you can't make it, let me know. Maybe I can call for you and get an extension. Hello, Captain. Hi, Matt. Your man's in his. Oh, that's all, Coley.

[Mrs. Ruth Lucas]

Yes, sir.

[Captain Kennelly]

I don't know what should look like, ma'.

[Mrs. Ruth Lucas]

Am.

[Captain Kennelly]

Not very good for the mother. Go ahead. This is Dan Tobert. Lieutenant King. That's all right. Sit still. Oh, thanks. What's her name? Kane. King. K I N G. Lieutenant Matthew King. Ah. Where's Luke? Upstairs in the detective squad. Oh. She's not in jail? No, just in the office. Oh. I thought somebody was kidding me when that detective came and told me what happened. Thought it was a joke. It would have been some joke. My boss was sore I had to leave. I was putting a new clutch in a car. It has to go on the street tonight. Well, we'll see if we can get you out of here fast. He wouldn't have do that to those kids. Must have been an accident. Accidents don't happen in pairs. Not like that. I mean, Rose wouldn't do anything like that. Was it all right if I smoke in here? Have one of mine. Oh, thanks. Thanks a lot, Lieutenant. Thanks I mention it. How long have you known Rose? Oh, I don't know. Five or six months, seven months, something like that. I can meet her. I'll tell you the truth. It was in a bar and grill. I used to stop in there once in a while for a glass of beer. I saw her in there two or three times alone. Thought it was kind of funny. A pregnant girl coming into a bar alone like that. Yeah, I asked about her. Somebody told me. I don't know. I guess I felt kind of sorry for the kid. We got to talking one night when. That was that. You kept seeing her right up until the time she had the baby. Yeah. Yeah, it was funny. I'd visit her at the hospital. Some people around there thought I was the father. I didn't say nothing. I let them think what they wanted. And that's what she brought the kids home. It was just like before. I kept seeing her. Taking her on when she could get this Mrs. Gonzalez to sit, you know. I understand you talked about getting married. Who told you that? Ruth. Is it true? We talked about it. Yeah. Can I have that ashtray, Captain? Yeah, sure. Thanks. But there never was anything definite, not one way or the other. What do you mean, not one way or the other? Well, it was a lot of problems. We both had our problems. The kids. Yeah, that plus the fact I'm not making a fortune. You know, I figured you get married, you want to enjoy each other for a little while anyway. There's time enough for kids a little later when you feel like settling down. Then you'd probably have been married already if it wasn't for the kids. Well, I wouldn't say that exactly, Lieutenant. Maybe. Yeah. I don't know. You ever tell her that? Well, we talked about a pro and con from every angle. You know, if a guy's gonna have a family, he'd much rather be his own. That's the facts of life. You see, he gets the money from the government, doesn't he? Yes. He even went down and got the details from the VA or somebody. If she got married again, it'd be cut down to half or so. About 60 bucks a month for the twins. That's what you get. What'd you talk about when you brought her home last night, Ben? Oh, different things. About getting married? Yeah, it was mentioned. You told her you didn't want to see her anymore. Isn't that right? Well, how'd you know that? Let's say I guessed it. Well, yeah, that's. That's true. I mean, the whole thing seemed kind of hopeless to me. I. I told her I'm a young guy and I don't want to take on somebody else's obligations. I could see it would only lead to trouble if I did that. That's exactly what I told her. If we got married, it could only lead to trouble. I'll tell you something, Danny. You didn't get married, and it still led to trouble. The questioning went on for another 15 or 20 minutes. Drink last night? Then I sat there watching and listening. Interrogation is a great skill. And Matt King knew his business. He was friendly, polite and patient. Dan Talbot tried to be as helpful as he could without hurting Ruth. He was helpful, but he hurt her step by step. Lt. King was building a case of murder first against ruth Lucas. At 4pm I turned out the platoon for the night tour. At 4:10, Sergeant Klein came into my office for a conference in regard the tours off for accumulated days spent in court by manager's platoon. I guess that does it, Captain. Thanks.

[Mrs. Mary Gonzalez]

Is the captain in there?

[Captain Kennelly]

Well, he's busy now, ma'. Am. Can you tell me what it's about?

[Mrs. Mary Gonzalez]

I want to see the captain.

[Captain Kennelly]

Well, I said the captain. That's all right, Sergeant. I'll talk to him. Come in, Ms. Gonzalez.

[Mrs. Mary Gonzalez]

Certainly. It's hard to get some attention around Here. That's all I can say. Certainly is hard.

[Captain Kennelly]

Sit down.

[Mrs. Mary Gonzalez]

No, thanks.

[Mrs. Ruth Lucas]

I can stand.

[Mrs. Mary Gonzalez]

I gave a lot of time when Lt. King wanted to know about everything this morning. Now I can't even see him.

[Captain Kennelly]

Well, I know that he's very busy this afternoon.

[Mrs. Mary Gonzalez]

I gave my time when he wanted it.

[Captain Kennelly]

Did you talk to any of these detectives upstairs? Maybe they can help you.

[Mrs. Mary Gonzalez]

Oh, sure, I talked to the detectives, but they said I'd have to talk to the lieutenant and Lieutenant won't talk to me. What am I supposed to do?

[Captain Kennelly]

Well, what is it? That's.

[Mrs. Mary Gonzalez]

I just want my things, that's all. I gave a lot of things to those babies, and they're dead now. I want them to give to my own grandchildren. Could have given them to my own grandchildren in the first place.

[Captain Kennelly]

You'll get whatever is yours as soon as the investigation is over.

[Mrs. Mary Gonzalez]

Well, I just want to make sure they aren't turned over to some charity or something. After all, charity begins at home.

[Captain Kennelly]

I suggest you make a list of what you claim is yours.

[Mrs. Mary Gonzalez]

I don't need a list. I know there were four pairs of little Johnny coats and a raffle for each one of them. And there was a rubber seat.

[Captain Kennelly]

Mrs. Gonzale's? Yes, come in. Excuse me, Captain. You said you wanted to ride over and take a look at conditions at First Avenue playground after school. Yeah. Well, okay. I'll be right with you. Yes, sir. Oh, Sergeant. Yes, sir? What time does the messenger leave for the distributing room tonight? About 5:30, Captain. All right. Have him stop in here. I'll have these report signs.

[Mrs. Ruth Lucas]

Okay.

[Mrs. Mary Gonzalez]

And there was those two pillars. They're the most important. Two pillars with real down. Took me a whole day to make them. And you know how much down is real down.

[Captain Kennelly]

You'll be able to get all of it back if it's yours.

[Mrs. Mary Gonzalez]

It's definitely mine. I didn't give her anything. I only loaned it the pillows. Couldn't be anything except loaning, so she didn't even know about them. I just put them in last night.

[Captain Kennelly]

Put them in where?

[Mrs. Mary Gonzalez]

In the drawers. Where'd you sink? Those poor little babies, sleeping in those hard drawers like that. It was a shame.

[Captain Kennelly]

Last night.

[Mrs. Mary Gonzalez]

That's right. Just last night. I only finished them yesterday afternoon. I thought the babes would be a lot more comfortable.

[Captain Kennelly]

Didn't you say anything to Ms. Lucas about the pillows?

[Mrs. Mary Gonzalez]

I was going to mention it, but

[Mrs. Ruth Lucas]

when I came downstairs to sit, I

[Mrs. Mary Gonzalez]

forgot to bring them. After she was gone, I went back upstairs for a minute to get the pillows. I Was only going a minute.

[Mrs. Ruth Lucas]

I wouldn't leave those babies alone.

[Captain Kennelly]

When did you put the pillows in the drawers, Ms. Gonzalez?

[Mrs. Mary Gonzalez]

When the babies woke up for their bottles, about 11:30.

[Mrs. Ruth Lucas]

After I changed them, I put the

[Mrs. Mary Gonzalez]

pillows in the drawers.

[Captain Kennelly]

And how high are the pillows?

[Mrs. Mary Gonzalez]

What do you mean, how high?

[Captain Kennelly]

Oh, I mean, are they thick?

[Mrs. Mary Gonzalez]

Well, very thick. They're very good pillows.

[Mrs. Ruth Lucas]

Genuine.

[Mrs. Mary Gonzalez]

Down. I want them back.

[Captain Kennelly]

You'll get them back. I guarantee you'll get them back.

[Mrs. Ruth Lucas]

Well, as long as I have your guarantee.

[Captain Kennelly]

All right, let's go upstairs. Mr. Hunt, finish.

[Mrs. Mary Gonzalez]

Why?

[Captain Kennelly]

To see Lieutenant King.

[Mrs. Mary Gonzalez]

They told me he's very busy.

[Captain Kennelly]

We'll see him in Lt. King's presence. I had Ms. Gonzales repeat her story about putting the pillows in the drawers. She went through it word for word.

[Mrs. Mary Gonzalez]

Now, I want the pillows back. Don't you think I'm entitled to them?

[Captain Kennelly]

What's your point, Captain? Where are the drawers? At the house? No, we brought them in here for evidence. The drawers and all the bedding that was in them. What's the point? Let me show you in my office.

[Mrs. Ruth Lucas]

Is she in there?

[Captain Kennelly]

Yes, she's in there.

[Mrs. Mary Gonzalez]

I don't know if I want to talk to her.

[Captain Kennelly]

You don't have to talk to her. Mr. Gonzalez got them over on the table.

[Mrs. Ruth Lucas]

Hello, Mary. Hello.

[Captain Kennelly]

Over here. Here they are.

[Mrs. Mary Gonzalez]

Pillows about under the seats. That's where I.

[Captain Kennelly]

Just a minute, Ms. Gonzalez. I'll do it.

[Mrs. Mary Gonzalez]

Oh, they're my pillows, after all.

[Captain Kennelly]

Now, look, mate. Ms. Lucas didn't know the pillows were there. They take them out and they lower the place where the baby slept about three or four inches. Now, with them down that much lower, there was plenty of room for them to breathe. When the yellow blanket was pulled tight over the top. Put them back and they were up pretty close to the yellow blanket. Close enough to cause trouble.

[Mrs. Mary Gonzalez]

What kind of trouble?

[Captain Kennelly]

Mrs. Wilker, would you come here a minute?

[Mrs. Ruth Lucas]

Oh, yes.

[Mrs. Mary Gonzalez]

What kind of trouble?

[Mrs. Ruth Lucas]

Look, I'm tired. I'm awfully tired.

[Captain Kennelly]

I know. Mrs. Lucas, did you know these two pillows were in the drawers?

[Mrs. Ruth Lucas]

What two pillows?

[Captain Kennelly]

These?

[Mrs. Mary Gonzalez]

No.

[Mrs. Ruth Lucas]

How'd they get there? I never saw them.

[Mrs. Mary Gonzalez]

I put them there last night. I wanted the babies to be more comfortable.

[Captain Kennelly]

Didn't you see that they were sleeping a little higher than usual?

[Mrs. Ruth Lucas]

No, I really didn't.

[Mrs. Mary Gonzalez]

You mean that I caused the babies to smother me?

[Captain Kennelly]

That's right. You did.

[Mrs. Ruth Lucas]

Oh, dear God. Dear God.

[Captain Kennelly]

All right, sit down, Ms. Dunbaily. I love them.

[Mrs. Ruth Lucas]

I love them so.

[Captain Kennelly]

Ruth, you know I love them.

[Mrs. Ruth Lucas]

I know. I wouldn't do that for anything in the world. Forgive me. Up. Please. Fix it. Please. It will marry up to you. Wasn't your fault. Accidents happen.

[Captain Kennelly]

21st Precinct. Sergeant Klein. Yes, sir. What's the address? 205209. Inside in front of the shoemaker. What's the trouble there? What does the man have? And so it goes around the clock through the week. Every day, every year, the police precinct in the city of New York is a flesh and blood merry go round. Anyone can catch the brass ring or the brass ring can catch anyone. The incidents portrayed on tonight's 21st Precinct occurred last year. Names were changed to protect the interests of persons involved. 21st Precinct is presented with the official cooperation of the Patrolman's Benevolent association, an organization of more than 20,000 members of the police department, City of New York. Everett Sloan in the role of Captain Kennelly. Ken lynch as Lieutenant King, featured in tonight's cast, which Joan Loring and Barbara Weeks.

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