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ABC Special Event 47-08-05 Investigation of Hughes Airplane Contract
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ABC Special Event 47-08-05 Investigation of Hughes Airplane Contract
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A
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Limu is that guy with the binoculars watching us?
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Cut the camera. They see us. Only pay for what you need@libertymutual.com Liberty Liberty.
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Liberty.
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Liberty Savings. Very unwritten by Liberty Mutual Insurance Company and affiliates. Excludes Massachusetts.
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D
The program Museum of Modern Music will not be heard tonight, but will be heard again next Tuesday night at this same time. And now from Washington, another ABC special event.
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B
This is John Edwards in Washington. This was Elliot Roosevelt's day again today before the Senate committee investigating the Howard Hughes Henry Kaiser airplane contracts during the war. He was on the stand for five hours morning and afternoon in the historic Senate caucus chamber. It was crowded, as it has been during so many other investigations. This time with men and women dressed for the Washington summer. Mostly women, including many smartly dressed society women from several eastern cities. Many attractive young girls, some from the nearby senatorial offices. Representatives of the press and radio and the newsreel and picture companies were on hand as usual in the bright KLIG lights. In this setting, ABC recorded the entire five hours of Roosevelt's testimony. Full of sharp questions and answers and charges and counter charges. Some anger, some laughter. And in the next 30 minutes you will hear recorded excerpts of the highlights. Not all the highlights by any means, but you'll get a glimpse of what did take place today. And you'll hear the voice of Elliot Roosevelt, which dominated the hearing throughout the day. And Senator Ferguson of Michigan, the chairman of the committee handling the Hughes investigation, who did most of the questioning. You'll also hear from Senator Brewster of Maine, the chairman of the full Senate war investigating committee. And Senator Pepper of Florida, who spoke frequently for the Democratic minority. And in one place, from Johnny Myers, Howard Hughes publicity agent. In the first half hour of the testimony, the charge of politics was heard. Elliot Roosevelt's previous charges that the investigation had been directed against him because he was the late President Roosevelt son. Son. And that the entire hearings were principally a smear against his father. Well, let's begin with this highlight. Here is Senator Ferguson's voice.
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E
Well, Carl Roosevelt, you. You have stated now that the fact that you were the son of the President of the United States had to be considered in these matters.
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And therefore you appreciate that your conduct as the son of the President of the United States must be considered. And therefore what you would do may be not proper. Whereas if another officer did it, it would be Considered as proper. You appreciate that? Yes, sir.
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F
That.
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E
That's a very, very true statement.
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F
And that's why, sir, there gives rise in my mind to wonder at the very peculiar treatment which you, Senator Ferguson, are rendering in this particular instance. Because, sir, it is very clear to me that you would select the son of the president for the first and primary blaze of publicity when I have been informed that this committee has had, since July 20, 1946, in their possession information contained in Senate Document 75 that deals with millions and millions of dollars of gifts and to other offices that was gathered by your own General Accounting Office. And you have not chosen to deal with those millions of gifts that include automobiles from corporations to offices in the United States Army. But you have chosen to deal with me. And not only that, Senator, but let.
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E
Me finish, sir, because it's very, very important.
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F
Because I want you to deal as fairly with me as I am with you. I don't want to.
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E
I'm going to deal with you just the same as you will deal with the committee.
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F
Yes, sir.
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E
And it doesn't make any difference to the committee whether or not you claim that this is merely a political investigation.
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F
Why is it, then, that when the committee investigated this entire matter and dealt with every other principle involved, that the committee never even bothered to interview me? And they were interviewing everybody else as far as those of February of this year.
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B
And now, a moment later, another comment by Elliot Roosevelt. And again, this is Senator Ferguson speaking first.
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E
And I want to assure you, Mr. Roosevelt, that you are going to have a full and a fair hearing here. If it's within my power as chairman of this subcommittee, you will not be restrained from expressing yourself in full, no matter whether you are criticizing the committee or not.
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F
You understand?
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E
Yes, sir. You can criticize the committee in a broadcast. You can criticize them right here under oath. That is your privilege as a citizen of the United States. Not only because you are the son of a former President of the United States, the commander in chief during the war, but because you are a citizen at this time. And you as a citizen will have full rights in this hearing or out. And I will always stand back, obviously, to give you that privilege. Whether I agree with it or not.
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C
That is a different question.
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E
But I will fight for your right to do it.
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F
And I'm sure, sir, that you will.
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D
Also appreciate that because of my relationship.
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F
And the affection that I bore for.
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C
My father, I will fight to the.
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F
Death to protect his name and his record.
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E
And you should.
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D
Thank you.
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E
Yes, you should.
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G
Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman.
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E
Mr. Chairman, but we will have no further demonstrations in the room. If we do have them, the chair will clear the room of all spectators.
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B
Well, that third voice you heard in there a moment ago saying Mr. Chairman, was Senator Brewster. Well, all this talk of politics, it's what opened and closed today's melodrama. It popped up frequently during the day, but now the committee is looking into the matter of expense accounts. Again, how corporations have entertained as part of their public relations programs. Ferguson had asked Roosevelt had the Hughes Aircraft Company ever entertained him. Why, of course, he said he had been entertained. Who else had entertained him? Well, Elliot Roosevelt read a list and.
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D
For the record, I'd like to state that before the war and during the war, I was entertained by the Douglas Company, Lockheed, Fairchild, the aluminum company of America, Reynolds Metal, Pratt and Whitney, Curtis Wright, Mr. Girdler, Victor Emanuel, Eastman Kodak, General Electric, Ford, Chrysler, General Motors, Pan American. Excuse me for bringing that in.
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E
Why do you want to be excused for bringing that in?
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D
Well, sir, there's been a lot of efforts to bring them in and I don't think they're germane to the issue at all.
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Select homes only in this investigation, American Airlines, CWA, Eastern, United States, Mr. Rickenbacker, Barry Grumman, Glenn Morton Consolidated North American, and Bell.
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B
Elliot. Roosevelt showed considerable anger on a couple of occasions when the expense account of publicity man Johnny Meyer had showed Roosevelt's name and listed also girls who had been invited to parties to entertain him. There were several heated exchanges between Roosevelt and Meyer. And here is one of Elliot's statements.
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F
Sir, I would like to have Mr. Meyer safe for the rest. Whether he at any time ever got a girl on my behalf and that any girl that he ever gave presents to and entertained was for me and for the purpose of entertaining me, that.
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E
He paid money to.
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F
I think it is an utterly despicable insinuation that he should clear up for the record, because I deny with my whole heart and soul such an allegation.
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B
And then at another point during one of these exchanges, Roosevelt made this comment. And you'll also hear Johnny Myers voice later.
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D
I'm reminded of a very old Hebrew proverb here with regard to the constant reference to Elliot Roosevelt on the books of the Hughes company as placed in their Bible. Mr. Meyer, it's a very short one. If you don't mind, I'd like to just start from the general tenor of our conversation. Read it.
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He who digs the graves for another almost invariably falls into it himself.
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J
I think the colonel is questioning my veracity without reason.
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D
I don't think that it is a question of your veracity. Your own testimony is that you placed my name whenever I happen to be.
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E
Present because it was the east, the.
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C
Most important person there.
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E
I have previously said that.
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C
I also said I had your name on these sheets while you were in.
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E
Europe because of the officers who were associated with you.
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B
Well, now, those are mighty tiny excerpts, of course, but there was one time today when Roosevelt frankly admitted accepting payment of a hotel bill from Howard Hughes as a wedding present. He said it might be that it was inadvisable for me to accept such a presence. And he acknowledged that under a strict interpretation of army rules, as he looked at it now, he might be reprimanded, but this whole business of expense accounts is so involved that perhaps the following excerpt. This time you'll hear 11 uninterrupted minutes. Perhaps this following will help to clarify the picture. You'll hear first Roosevelt's explanation of how Johnny Meyer was invited to Hyde Park.
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F
I think that's a very interesting point you know about. Yeah, all right.
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E
Then will you give us your version?
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F
I think it's a very interesting point. These boys that he is referring to that he accompanied to Hyde park were members of my organization in Europe who returned on temporary duty or on leave.
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E
To the United States.
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D
States are on permanent transfers.
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F
These officers, as well as all enlisted men that came back to this country. I gave letters of introduction to. To my mother. And those men, all of them used to drop in and tell her about what we were doing overseas. These men called my mother when they got to this country and delivered their letters of introduction. They told her that they were going to New York for the weekend, two of them with their wives. And there they met Mr. Meyer, who it was not. They did not meet him through. Meet him through me, but they met.
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E
Him through a colonel shoot.
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F
Who had been returned a long time previously and who was known and friendly with Mr. Meyer long before I ever knew Mr. Meyer. And they told Mr. Meyer during that weekend that they were going to Hyde Park. And they said, look, let us call Hyde park and find out whether we can bring you. And you had known Elliot, and I'm sure that Mrs. Roosevelt wouldn't mind. And that is how Mr. Meyer happened to get on the bandwagon to go to Hyde park is absolutely correct.
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E
Is that correct?
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J
Yes.
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G
Colonel Shoup called Mrs. Roosevelt and asked.
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J
If I could accompany the boys up there for the weekend.
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E
And she said, certainly. How did you contact them?
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G
Contact them?
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E
How did you contact Shoup and the other.
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C
Well, we've already gone into that.
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F
The colonel shoot returned in July of 1944. Colonel Shoup was on duty on the west coast, and he was with Meyer a great deal of the time. And my boys were corresponding with Shoup. And at the time that they returned to the United States, they had contact with Mr. Shoup, the Colonel Shoup, at the Pentagon building. And they contacted Meyer through shooting.
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E
Why did you. Why did you then charge, when it was requested that you go to Hyde park, why did you charge that in as a tax deductible.
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Figure?
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F
That's what I'd like to know.
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J
Because I considered a business to be invited to Hyde Park.
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E
What did it have to do with their production?
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J
Because it was another contact.
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F
Contact with Mrs. Roosevelt. Did she run it, Run the air production in the United States?
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E
No. That's what I'd like to know.
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J
It was a contact because there were quite a few important people at Hyde park that weekend.
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C
Mr. Chairman, I'd like to say this. I'd like to ask Mr. Public Relations. I'm sorry that's just what I was just finished.
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E
A public relations.
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C
I say public relations means contacts and meeting people. I was just going to ask Mr. Me about that. You are a general public relations man for Mr. Howard Hughes business? That's correct. We were attached to him personally.
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J
That's correct.
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C
He was the principal owner of many different enterprises. That's large proposal. Correct.
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E
He.
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C
He owned the Hughes Tool Company in Houston, Texas. He owned a picture producing company in Los Angeles. He owned an access company and he may have had other. He also has a bu. He also has a bu. And you simply. You were allowed apparently an unlimited expense account. You said you had discretion as to what you wanted to spend money for.
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G
That's right.
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C
And the notations you made were simply journalist speaking as to whether it could be charged up to the brewery or to the shoe company at Houston or generally go into the used aircraft, so on. It didn't make any difference to the government of the United States whether to charge the Hughes aircraft or whether to.
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E
Charge to the brewery whether the discharge.
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C
Of the Houston Tool Company. If I understood Mr. Sherwood, it wasn't but one corporation. Mr. Hughes didn't do what a lot of companies do, have X number of holding companies with one up at the apex and all these other independent corporations down the bottom. He seems to have had one corporation and all these others were merely subsidiaries for bookkeeping purposes.
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J
That's correct.
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C
But it wouldn't have made any difference insofar as this claim is concerned because it said that none of it was deducted from the cost of that big cargo ship. If Mr. Sherwood, if I understood him correctly, well, whatever it was charged to, insofar as income tax deductibility is concerned, it wouldn't have made any difference to the United States government. And you simply put down in some of these expense accounts when you entertain some of these motion picture people, you put it down to the huge motion picture enterprise they entertain. Army officers and people that win the Air Corps were associated with Air Corps. You generally put it down in the aircraft category. Is that roughly what you do?
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G
That's correct. That's correct.
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F
Well, which company would you say now.
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D
Would benefit most from a contact with Mrs. Franklin Roosevelt of a purely social nature?
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E
Is that a question you think that it would be pertinent, sir? Yes, I did.
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F
Again, being invited to Hyde park.
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Due to the interceding of an officer to get you an invitation. And you proceeded to Hyde park for luncheon. And I believe that you were taken on a hike by Mrs. Roosevelt, which is rather unusual type of exercise.
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C
For you.
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E
You know that from past experience? Yes, I do.
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F
I think that it'd be very interesting to this committee to know why the Hughes Aircraft Company would benefit from a contact of Mrs. Bergson.
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E
Rosa, that's an important question.
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J
Well, I can't answer it because under the heading of public relations, I mean, it's a contact and a contact with.
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C
The first lady of the land.
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J
It couldn't have been more charming or more gracious.
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C
Mr. Meyer, that's just what I was going to ask. Is there general public relations man in the United States for big companies that would not have jumped at an opportunity to get.
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J
Are you kidding? He would have chartered a private plane instead of buying seven tickets or whatever it was.
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C
Are you kidding?
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E
And do you think. Do you think that they would have allowed it to remain on the book as Mr. Hughes or somebody in his company allowed it to go through as an expense item?
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J
Don't you think that Mr. Should be admired for telling the truth on these slips and whining that way?
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E
Somebody should have caught that item and struck it off as not a chargeable item to me. Yes.
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Sure. To the government.
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J
My idea of these records is this. The only person I have to report.
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G
To is Mr. Hughes.
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J
Yes, he and I are not for.
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E
Them remaining on the book after you report it.
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J
Kept, to the best of my knowledge, I have already admitted on two previous occasions and again this morning that I kept them loosely and I used the most important name when 18, 20, 25.
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E
Or 30 people are present.
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J
He didn't ask me for an exact date.
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E
So how.
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J
Why should I be accountable to somebody else for an exact date?
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E
Let's go back to the sheet here and we'll soon get to your technical reporter going over the. You have that secret order.
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J
Now.
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E
You had on the eight on the eighth, 20th, he charged 106, 50. There isn't any doubt that you were entertained at those three clubs?
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F
I maintain I did. I maintain as I did yesterday, sir, that I did just as much entertainment. He may have charged this to me, but that I spent on those same and the same period of time an equal or greater amount of money than he did.
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E
All right.
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B
On the next.
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F
So that I do not consider that he was entertaining me. It was a reciprocity setup.
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E
As far as I was.
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As I understand, his contention is that you didn't pay any of the checks.
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C
Is that correct?
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J
All right, Senator, I did not contend that. I said I paid the checks. I have in the voucher there are three nightclubs and one night there that we Went to. But nightclubs open in New York around nine and they run till five in the morning. He could have gone to two or.
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E
Three places after that lesson.
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F
Can I ask.
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E
He didn't entertain you?
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J
Can I. I wouldn't sit down on a voucher of someplace where I've been invited by somebody else.
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C
Should I ask you, sir, to put.
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F
The question to him as to whether he can swear on the stand right now that there were no other chicks made out in pain by members of that party in those three nightclubs?
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E
What's your answer while you were with them?
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J
I can't say. I can't say. There's a thing in nightclub business and.
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C
Cafe business called which you senators run down.
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G
Very unfamiliar with where you bounce around.
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J
From one table to another one. While I'm at one table, somebody might have paid a check and yet I'll get a check for somebody else at another table.
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E
Senator trusted.
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G
If you want to. Yes, I. If we may divert the course for a few moments.
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General Roosevelt is perhaps properly termed the comedy Relief to the more serious aspects of this affair. I want to first express and owe the Committee appreciation to Mr. Meyer for his testimony that he thinks this committee is unfamiliar with the procedures in New York nightclub which I think is probably correct.
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But is that a virtue? Well, I don't know.
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F
I, from Florida won't admit that.
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C
I doubt if the senator from Maine has been altogether an abstainer. In fact.
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G
Misses Brewster here to supervise me as the senator from Florida has so I may be less cautious in my confession.
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B
Well, now for a look at the matter of the Hughes photo reconnaissance plane which Elliott Roosevelt and the other combat officers in his mission had recommended because they needed planes quickly and because they believed this plane would do the job. There was a difference of opinion within the army and Roosevelt criticized the material command for delaying the recommendations of this combat mission. Well, here's one of the highlights.
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E
As I understand it. This is a criticism that you have against the material command rather than against Hughes for his incapacity to produce.
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F
Sir, I think that in as much. Yes, and I think that we ought to just bring right onto the record right here that in as much as General Echo made the statement that he disapproved on the stand here that he disapproved of this airplane because it was made of wood and that was what he kept repeating because it was made of wood that it wouldn't be practical he went ahead and kept putting the responsibility back to General Arnold for the procurement of this airplane in spite of the fact that There was the recommendation of flying officers who had been flying in the theater. And then it is interesting to note that he would impute by infant my integrity in this matter and that I would make a recommendation that would hurt or would injure in any way the lives of my men in the active theater of combat. When I think that it might be interesting to note what is General Echo's present job?
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E
Who does he work for? Well, do you know?
- [24:34]
C
Yes sir, he works for the association.
- [24:36]
F
Of American Aircraft Manufacturers is their presence.
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B
Now here is a sharp five minute exchange between Senator Ferguson and Elliot Roosevelt on the matter of that photo reconnaissance plane.
- [24:49]
E
Did you have any evidence before you of the performance record of the D Prime?
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F
I had before me the specification which Mr. Hughes as the manufacturer had stated that he was willing to guarantee.
- [25:09]
E
All right. Now you didn't have any specifications, that is any actual performance record. You had Howard Hughes allegations as to what this plane would do.
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F
This plane was not under contract by anybody. That's the only source that you could get it from.
- [25:28]
E
Doesn't make any difference to bonds for procurement. What I wanted to know was what.
- [25:33]
F
You have before you, where else could he get it?
- [25:37]
E
Well, as to the seat of the.
- [25:39]
F
Pr, where else could you get it except from the actual performance?
- [25:44]
E
He didn't have any. Did you?
- [25:46]
F
I had the. The statements made by Mr. Hughes. And I state very carefully that he must guarantee that. And in my opinion he shouldn't get paid for it. If he didn't meet his guarantee, what.
- [26:01]
E
Good would that do? That wouldn't get you pleased? That's just what happened.
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F
And what I'm trying to tell you, sir, is that I covered us in the eventuality that he ever should fall down with the very next best thing.
- [26:14]
E
But isn't this a fact that you were willing to take his verbal guarantee to produce this flame retinol, well written, guaranteed. Have you anything in writing that he guaranteed to make?
- [26:29]
F
He showed us all of his blueprints and his written specifications of the aircraft.
- [26:37]
E
What I'm trying to find out is whether or not you didn't just have huge verbal statements as to what this plane would do that you had no performance from record.
- [26:48]
F
Sir, may I ask you a question?
- [26:51]
E
Yes, you can ask.
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F
I don't know quite what you're driving at unless you're trying to prove that I took Howard Hughes's word. I didn't take Howard Hughes's word. I stated the true facts in my report that Hughes had stated the following engineering statements that he was willing to abide by. I went Further than that and stated that certain modifications had to be made in the letting of such a contract.
- [27:20]
E
Now, wasn't it just merely paper performance that he had never taken this plane up and demonstrated that it would?
- [27:26]
F
Did I ever say that he had? And is there any reason we were.
- [27:30]
C
Told to look at a plane that.
- [27:31]
F
Lockheed was producing for use on exactly the same basis that had never flown?
- [27:36]
E
Let's get back to this place.
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F
But is it in other aircraft too?
- [27:41]
E
Now, isn't it a fact that there was no performance record at the time that you went to make the inquiry?
- [27:50]
F
There is no other performance record other than the allegations and statements made by the manufacturer. Plus the fact that there is no other way that you could have gotten any information regarding the aircraft. Plus the fact that I took the precaution of saying that the government should protect itself on that in such a contract if they should require guarantees and perform.
- [28:15]
E
Do you know whether or not the government did try to protect itself on this so called performance record?
- [28:21]
F
I have no knowledge of that because I wasn't the contracting officer. Well, where I should have.
- [28:27]
E
Where in your recommendations will we find this statement that they were to protect themselves by a guarantee?
- [28:39]
F
We were required, in addition to all of the written material, we were required to submit this exhibit here.
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Exhibit 89. We were required to file this as specifications which must be lived up to in the making of that concept.
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G
General would then, as I understand it, if the procurement officers did not contain.
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C
The stipulation that it should fulfill these.
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G
Specifications, particularly at the speech you would.
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C
Consider they were rather seriously delinquent.
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F
Not only that, sir, but I would say that they were completely delinquent if they didn't demand that it should meet the requirements as to speed, altitude and range plus the delivery dates. It was vital to us that we get quick delivery dates. And if they didn't put it in, I'm making an allegation that they were seriously delinquent in their duty.
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B
Well now, at the close of today's testimony, the charge of politics again was raised and that's the way it ended.
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E
You don't think that this is just an investigation of you, do you?
- [29:52]
F
Why no. And I hope that it will come out as a result of this investigation that there will be improvements made, by golly, because I don't think that the Procurement Division employed the proper tactics in letting contact unit in this case and.
- [30:10]
E
In thousands of others. But then how do you line that up with your. This paper that this committee, this investigation is a political fear?
- [30:20]
F
Sir, I am only refreshing your memory as to the newspaper coverage and the headlines that have been devoted out making allegations that not only was I.
- [30:37]
D
Not.
- [30:38]
J
Only was I.
- [30:41]
F
Guilty of conduct unbecoming an officer, but also the reason for even bringing your name in, sir, to my statement that this did have a political implication is that it seems very clear to me that records of this committee should have been released to the public press to the extent of $5,083 that was chargeable to me when me I had never had the opportunity of telling the committee publicly beforehand how completely ridiculous that was.
- [31:20]
B
ABC has brought you recorded highlights of today's testimony before the Senate War Investigating Committee when Elliot Roosevelt held the spotlight. Tomorrow night you will hear another report of tomorrow's hearing. This is John Edwards reporting from Washington.
- [31:33]
D
This is ABC, the American Broadcasting Company.
- [31:38]
I
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