Harvard Data Science Review Podcast: How Many Glasses of Wine a Day Keeps the Doctor Away?
Release Date: July 30, 2024
In this insightful episode of the Harvard Data Science Review Podcast, hosts Liberty Vittert and Shali Mack delve into the intricate relationship between wine consumption and health. Featuring esteemed guests Laura Catena, Managing Director and founder of the Catena Institute of Wine, and Dr. Ahmed Talkal, Director of Cardiology at Massachusetts General Hospital, the discussion navigates through the benefits and drawbacks of moderate wine consumption, the complexities of alcohol-related research, and the future trajectory of wine studies.
1. Introduction and Guest Introductions
[00:02] Liberty Vittert opens the episode by highlighting the celebration of HDSR's fifth anniversary through a symposium centered around wine, bringing experts like Laura Catena and Dr. Ahmed Talkal together to explore wine's impact on health.
[01:05] Shali Mack welcomes Laura and Ahmed, setting the stage for a comprehensive dialogue that intertwines winemaking heritage with medical research.
2. The Intersection of Winemaking and Medicine
[01:52] Laura Catena shares her unique journey as a fourth-generation Argentine vintner who transitioned from studying biology at Harvard to practicing emergency medicine for 27 years while managing the winery for two decades. She emphasizes the potential positive impact of promoting wine in moderation on people's happiness and well-being.
“I’m pretty convinced that if you promote wine in moderation and take good care of the land and of your staff, that you can make a good impact on people's happiness through wine, especially when you're emphasizing the moderation part.” — Laura Catena [02:16]
[02:45] Dr. Ahmed Talkal introduces his long-standing interest in cardiovascular health and his evolving research focus on alcohol’s effects, particularly its relationship with stress and cardiovascular disease.
3. Ahmed's Research on Alcohol and Cardiovascular Health
a. Initial Studies on Alcohol and Blood Vessels
[02:47] Dr. Talkal recounts his early research where they injected alcohol into participants' arteries to study its effects on blood vessel function. The study revealed that while alcohol reduced resistance to flow, it did not enhance blood vessel function as anticipated, leading to a publication in 2004.
b. Recent Study on Alcohol, Stress, and Cardiovascular Events
[04:17] Fast forward two decades, Dr. Talkal discusses a comprehensive 2023 study involving 53,000 patients from the Mass General Brigham Biobanks. This research examined light to moderate alcohol consumption and its association with reduced cardiovascular events, even after adjusting for lifestyle factors, genetics, and pre-existing health conditions.
“We saw that people who drank light to moderate alcohol... had a reduction in cardiovascular disease events. It was a substantial reduction, and it withstood a lot of additional adjustments.” — Ahmed Talkal [04:17]
However, the study also identified an increase in cancer risk associated with alcohol consumption, presenting a nuanced picture of alcohol's health implications.
[08:37]
4. Debates on Moderate Alcohol Consumption
a. Laura's Perspective on Media and Health Guidelines
[09:15] Laura Catena addresses the polarized media narratives surrounding alcohol, highlighting that while some studies suggest benefits, others focus on the associated cancer risks. She underscores the importance of adhering to moderation as defined by U.S. guidelines—one unit per day for women and two for men.
“If you drink in moderation, one glass per day if you’re a man, two glasses per day, it’s probably pretty safe, unless you’re, you know, mostly interested in cancer.” — Laura Catena [13:31]
b. Distinguishing Moderate Drinking from Binge Drinking
Laura differentiates between moderate drinking and binge drinking, emphasizing that the latter poses significant health risks without the purported cardiovascular benefits.
“If you’re having all that in one seating, that is called binge drinking. So binge drinking is 4 units per day for woman, 5 units per day for a man.” — Laura Catena [09:57]
5. Type of Alcohol and Health Benefits
a. Does Type Matter? (Red vs. White Wine)
[14:29] Shali Mack probes whether the type of alcohol—such as red versus white wine—affects health outcomes differently.
[14:35] Dr. Talkal responds that current evidence suggests the health effects are attributable to alcohol itself rather than the type consumed.
“It doesn’t seem to be true to the best of my knowledge. It seems like it’s an effect of alcohol per se.” — Ahmed Talkal [14:35]
6. The Challenge of Research Design and Confounding Factors
a. Addressing Abstainer Bias
Shali Mack raises concerns about abstainer bias, questioning whether non-drinkers may inherently have worse health outcomes, thereby skewing comparative results.
[21:22]
[22:09] Dr. Talkal explains that their study mitigated abstainer bias by excluding abstainers and adjusting for major medical conditions, ensuring the J-shaped association between alcohol and cardiovascular health remains valid.
“...we had an analysis where we removed abstainers. That’s one. We did another analysis where we had all of their major medical problems and we accounted for those major medical problems.” — Ahmed Talkal [22:08]
b. Current and Future Studies (Predimed and Beyond)
[23:54] Laura Catena highlights ongoing and planned randomized controlled trials, such as the Predimed study in Spain, which aims to randomize moderate drinkers to abstain or reduce consumption, thereby overcoming previous methodological limitations.
“...people who drink in moderation and follow the Mediterranean diet. So you’re also controlling for maybe, you know, one person has much worse habits than another.” — Laura Catena [23:54]
7. The Wine Industry's Role and Alternative Products
a. Low/No Alcohol Wine
[33:52] Laura Catena discusses innovations in the wine industry, such as low and no-alcohol wines, which aim to provide consumers with enjoyable experiences while mitigating health risks associated with alcohol.
“We are making some no alcohol and some 7% drinks that you will hopefully see in the next year.” — Laura Catena [33:52]
b. Promoting Moderation and Responsibility
Laura emphasizes the alcohol industry's responsibility in fostering moderation through practices like providing spit buckets at tastings and supporting sober movements within the industry.
“I think the alcohol industry has a responsibility for training, for always having spit buckets when they do tastings.” — Laura Catena [33:52]
8. Future Research Directions and Magic Wand Questions
[38:35] The conversation shifts to envisioning ideal studies with unlimited funding. Dr. Talkal expresses interest in advanced imaging studies to elucidate alcohol's long-term effects on the brain and its role in stress-related cardiovascular events.
“I’d want to go for an advanced imaging study to evaluate alcohol’s long term effects on the brain, the stress, neural activity and downstream cardiovascular events.” — Ahmed Talkal [39:23]
Laura Catena aspires to conduct large-scale randomized controlled trials to definitively determine alcohol's impact on cancer and cardiovascular outcomes. Additionally, she seeks to explore the social and psychological benefits of moderate drinking, such as enhanced conviviality and happiness.
“I would love to study the impact of those moments related to alcohol on pleasure, on happiness.” — Laura Catena [32:09]
9. Conclusion
Shali Mack wraps up the episode by emphasizing the importance of balanced consumption and the role of data scientists in conveying nuanced information. Both Laura and Ahmed acknowledge the complexity of alcohol's health effects, advocating for moderation and informed personal choices.
“There are pros and their cons in the end that we as a consumer, we should all be informed and make our own choice.” — Shali Mack [43:00]
This episode offers a balanced exploration of wine consumption, integrating perspectives from winemaking and cardiology to present a multifaceted view of alcohol's health implications. By addressing methodological challenges and advocating for responsible industry practices, the discussion underscores the necessity of informed decision-making backed by robust scientific research.