A Very Watchable, Very Viral Interview with Mehdi Hasan

Summary

Podcast Summary: "A Very Watchable, Very Viral Interview with Mehdi Hasan"

Hasan Minhaj Doesn't Know features an engaging and dynamic conversation between host Hasan Minhaj and renowned journalist Mehdi Hasan. This episode delves deep into Mehdi's career, his relationship with social media, challenges in modern journalism, and pressing geopolitical issues. Below is a detailed summary capturing the essence of their discussion, enriched with notable quotes and timestamps for key moments.

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I. Introduction and Personal Anecdotes

The episode opens with Hasan Minhaj playfully questioning Mehdi Hasan about his favorite movie scene—the iconic "You can't handle the truth" moment from A Few Good Men. Mehdi shares a personal story from his high school days in North London, where he attempted to reenact the scene solo after his friend fell ill.

• Hasan Minhaj [00:02]: "In your book, you say your favorite movie scene of all time is the... Who ordered the Code Red scene in A Few Good Men? Is this true?"

• Mehdi Hasan [00:22]: "Yep."

Mehdi humorously recounts standing before his entire class, portraying both Tom Cruise and Jack Nicholson's characters simultaneously. This anecdote sets a lighthearted tone for the episode, highlighting Mehdi's early passion for performance and storytelling.

---

II. The "Code Red" Reenactment

Hashan encourages Mehdi to perform a cold read of the "Code Red" scene, leading to a spirited and authentic rendition that showcases Mehdi's depth of knowledge and commitment to his craft.

• Hasan Minhaj [00:44]: "Colonel Jessup, did you order the Code Red? You don't have to answer that question."

• Mehdi Hasan [01:59]: "You're goddamn right I did."

This segment not only entertains but also underscores Mehdi's ability to engage and captivate an audience, a skill that translates into his journalistic endeavors.

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III. Social Media Addiction and Its Impact

Transitioning from entertainment to a more serious topic, Hasan addresses Mehdi's prolific use of Twitter, pointing out his high tweet volume and the potential consequences on his personal and professional life.

• Hasan Minhaj [03:52]: "You have tweeted over 70 times since Monday."

• Mehdi Hasan [04:25]: "I knew I should have not done that Monday. I was... on a train for three hours coming to see you."

Mehdi admits to an unhealthy relationship with social media, acknowledging the addictive nature of constant engagement and its toll on his mental health.

• Mehdi Hasan [06:23]: "But we are living in the biggest shit show of our lives and every part of our lives is on fire. So forgive me if I do a bit of shouting. Yes, Democracy is under threat. The planet is on fire. Fascists are on the rise. It's bad."

This candid discussion highlights the challenges journalists face in balancing the demands of social media with maintaining journalistic integrity and personal well-being.

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IV. Confrontation with Vice President J.D. Vance

A pivotal moment in the episode revolves around Mehdi's contentious interaction with Vice President J.D. Vance, where Vance insults Mehdi on Twitter.

• Hasan Minhaj [09:53]: "How do you think you behaved in your recent exchange with Vice President J.D. Vance?"

• Mehdi Hasan [10:05]: "So JD Vance, who is supposedly the Vice President of the United States... I quote tweeted at the vice president. Cause he's not gonna come on my show."

Mehdi details how he confronted Vance over his derogatory remarks, emphasizing the importance of holding powerful figures accountable. He recounts the backlash and support he received, demonstrating the volatile intersection of politics and social media.

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V. Building a Career Through Social Media

Despite the drawbacks, Mehdi acknowledges the role social media has played in advancing his journalistic career.

• Mehdi Hasan [07:16]: "What I was able to do was kind of find the sweet spot online to be able to do what I do in terms of debating and interviewing and public speaking and finding a way to turn that into viral content, shareable content."

He credits platforms like Twitter for enhancing his visibility and facilitating connections with influential figures, even as he grapples with its negative aspects.

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VI. Approach to Journalism and Access Journalism Critique

Mehdi delves into his journalistic philosophy, critiquing the prevalent model of access journalism where coverage is often traded for proximity to power.

• Mehdi Hasan [29:39]: "Access journalism is super broken. The future is in danger, and people don't quite know how to get around it."

He advocates for independent journalism that prioritizes truth over building alliances with powerful entities, stressing the need for media to remain objective and fearless in its reporting.

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VII. Comparing Historical and Current Conflicts: Iraq War vs. Gaza

A significant portion of the discussion centers on Mehdi's analysis of media coverage during the Iraq War and the ongoing Gaza conflict.

• Mehdi Hasan [32:35]: "The lies that were told getting into the Iraq War, similar lies that were told about Gaza... historians will look back and say a bunch of people in the west were on the wrong side of a genocide."

Mehdi draws parallels between past and present conflicts, critiquing the media's role in shaping public perception and policy. He expresses concern over the normalization of Islamophobia and the complacency of the liberal media in addressing humanitarian crises.

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VIII. Final Interactive Segment: "Condemn or Condone"

In a lighthearted yet pointed finale, Hasan introduces a game called "Condemn or Condone," challenging Mehdi to respond to various prompts. This segment serves as both a humorous interaction and a subtle critique of prevailing social and cultural issues.

• Hasan Minhaj [44:37]: "So I want to play a new game with you. It's called 'Condemn or Condone.'"

• Mehdi Hasan [45:05]: "I condemn. It's a racist, racist game."

The exchange underscores the underlying tensions and highlights the difficulty of navigating controversial topics with nuance and integrity.

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IX. Conclusion

The episode wraps up with mutual respect between Hasan and Mehdi, despite their playful ribbing and critical exchanges. Mehdi reflects on the importance of maintaining journalistic integrity in an era dominated by social media and polarized discourse.

• Mehdi Hasan [44:20]: "I am Mehdi Hassan and I ask tough questions and do dunks. I am not Hasan Minhaj, who tells great jokes but doesn't ask tough questions."

Their conversation encapsulates the challenges of modern journalism, the impact of social media, and the necessity for honest, fearless reporting in holding power to account.

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Notable Quotes:

• Mehdi Hasan [06:23]: "We are living in the biggest shit show of our lives and every part of our lives is on fire. So forgive me if I do a bit of shouting."

• Hasan Minhaj [08:43]: "People turn to journalists because they look for your discernment and specifically your clarity of thinking."

• Mehdi Hasan [29:39]: "Access journalism is super broken. The future is in danger, and people don't quite know how to get around it."

• Mehdi Hasan [32:35]: "Historians will look back and say a bunch of people in the west were on the wrong side of a genocide."

This episode offers a compelling blend of humor, critical analysis, and personal reflection, making it a must-listen for those interested in the intersections of media, politics, and personal integrity.

Transcript

[Hasan Minhaj]

Lemonade. In your book, you say your favorite movie scene of all time is the. Who ordered the Code Red scene in A Few Good Men? Is this true?

[Mehdi Hassan]

Yes.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Okay. And is it true that as a high school student in North London in the 1990s, you asked a friend to do this scene in your drama class?

[Mehdi Hassan]

Yep.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Your friend doesn't show up. He. He stayed home sick. So then you stand up in front of the entire class and you played both the parts of Tom Cruise.

[Mehdi Hassan]

Yes.

[Hasan Minhaj]

And Jack Nicholson at the same time. Colonel Jessup, can you recite this scene from memory?

[Mehdi Hassan]

Probably. Maybe I might need a bit of help. But some of it. I love it.

[Hasan Minhaj]

You need some help? Scott, bring in the script. Let's do it. Cold read right now. You read the parts in red. I will be Kaffe. Here we go. Colonel Jessup, did you order the Code Red? You don't have to answer that question.

[Mehdi Hassan]

I'll answer the question. You want answers?

[Hasan Minhaj]

I think I'm entitled to them.

[Mehdi Hassan]

You want answers?

[Hasan Minhaj]

I want the truth.

[Mehdi Hassan]

You can't handle the truth. Son, we live in a world that has walls. And those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lieutenant Weinberg? I have a greater responsibility than you could possibly fathom. You weep for Santiago and you curse the Marines. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know. Does Santiago's death, while tragic, probably saved lives. And while my existence is grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives. You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about it at parties. You want me on that wall, you need me on that wall. We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to defend myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom which I provide and and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said thank you and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon and stand opposed. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you're entitled to.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Did you order the Code Red?

[Mehdi Hassan]

I did the job.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Did you order the Code Red?

[Mehdi Hassan]

You're goddamn right I did.

[Hasan Minhaj]

End scene. A 1992 Aaron Sorkin drama is your entire personality. At some point, you've probably come across a viral clip of Mehdi Hassan verbally curb stomping a powerful politician and or sociopath. Someone like John Bolton, how much of.

[Mehdi Hassan]

Your antipathy towards Iran is to do with geopolitics? How much of it is to do with the fact that you've had a long association with a group called the mek, which was once a terrorist group banned by the State Department while you work there? You don't mention it in your book.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Or Blackwater mercenary Eric Pretty.

[Mehdi Hassan]

As part of. The.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Part of the investigations, I certainly disclosed any meetings.

[Mehdi Hassan]

The very, very few I had. No, not in the congressional testimony you gave to the House.

[Hasan Minhaj]

We went through it for senior Israeli official Mark Regev.

[Mehdi Hassan]

You accept that right? You've killed children? Or do you deny that? No, I do not. I do not.

[Hasan Minhaj]

That last clip was from Mehdi Hassan's MSNBC show, which was cancelled shortly after that interview aired. Coincidence? Who can say? I certainly can't. I'm not implying that at all, nor would I ever imply that. So last year, Mehdi started his own news platform called zetao, where he can ask the tough questions without any corporate overlords, a health insurance plan, or any financial security whatsoever. So dumb. I sat down with Mehdi to turn the tables and ask him the tough questions for once. Questions like, did he get fired for covering Gaza on msnbc? Why is he so addicted to clout like a loser? And the single question that may define his career more than any other. Who ordered the code Red man? The.

[Mehdi Hassan]

How's it going?

[Hasan Minhaj]

What's happening, man?

[Mehdi Hassan]

Good to see you.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Good to see you.

[Mehdi Hassan]

Reverse Roles.

[Hasan Minhaj]

This is Reverse Roles. What is your relationship with social media right now?

[Mehdi Hassan]

My relationship is a very unhealthy one. I think you mocked me for it on my show. And people are still laughing at me about that because they're like, hassan nailed you.

[Hasan Minhaj]

New York City kind of has the same BPM and mental health of his Twitter feed. Nailed you down. Pinned you.

[Mehdi Hassan]

Yeah, it was like being on the psychologist's couch that entire chat. Cause you. I do have an unhealthy relationship with social media.

[Hasan Minhaj]

So we're filming this right now. It's Thursday afternoon.

[Mehdi Hassan]

Okay?

[Hasan Minhaj]

You have tweeted over 70 times since Monday.

[Mehdi Hassan]

Fuck.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Okay.

[Mehdi Hassan]

I knew I should have not done that Monday. I was. In my defense, I was on a train. I was on a train for three hours coming to see you. What am I supposed to do? Chat to the guy next to me? Obviously, I'm gonna tweet.

[Hasan Minhaj]

I mean, you did not tweet 70 times today.

[Mehdi Hassan]

I don't know how many times. I don't keep track. I have multiple sites. I'm posting on it.

[Hasan Minhaj]

All day Monday was a federal holiday.

[Mehdi Hassan]

Monday, the Vice President of the United States attacked me. So that was a little bit of an abnormal day. Doesn't normally happen on my Twitter. So I had to respond.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Okay, we're gonna get to this. Okay, we're gonna. Let's pin that. Okay. J.D. vance called you a dummy. We'll get to that later.

[Mehdi Hassan]

I'm sure you wanna get to that.

[Hasan Minhaj]

You joined Twitter April 2010. That's approximately 5,420 days ago. Since then, you have posted 184,200 tweets. We did the math. That works out to 34 tweets a day for almost 15 years.

[Mehdi Hassan]

It's worse than that, Hassan, because I deleted all my tweets from 2010 to 2015 when I moved to the US so actually, that number is much higher when you calculate all the five years that I deleted. So, yeah, it's bad. It's bad. I have a problem.

[Hasan Minhaj]

You have a wife and two children.

[Mehdi Hassan]

I do.

[Hasan Minhaj]

How do you have that many opinions? This is legitimately my question.

[Mehdi Hassan]

Actually, I don't have that many opinions. I actually like to stay in my lane. Like, I don't opine on everything. I don't opine on, like, the US Grand Slam tournament. I try and stick to what I know about. It actually annoys me. We live in a world now on social media, where everyone has an opinion about everything. I don't. I ask other people. I defer to experts in the field, whether it's comedy, Hollywood, whatever it is.

[Hasan Minhaj]

But I care about three things and that I believe strongly. Number one, movies over three hours should be illegal. Number two, Dyson vacuum cleaners are worth the extra money.

[Mehdi Hassan]

Agreed. Number three, But Dyson's a horrible man.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Is that another conversation?

[Mehdi Hassan]

He's a Brexit guy.

[Hasan Minhaj]

This is what I'm talking about.

[Mehdi Hassan]

Okay.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Number three. Number three, Chipotle. Respectfully, the quality is dropped off.

[Mehdi Hassan]

I've never eaten Chipotle, so I wouldn't know.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Okay, so that's. You can have a veggie.

[Mehdi Hassan]

I know. I don't do veggies.

[Hasan Minhaj]

You don't do veggies?

[Mehdi Hassan]

No. I mean, look, I actually have thought about deleting Twitter a lot since the election because it's run by a guy who amplifies neo Nazis and racists and freaks and is basically destroying our government right now. So it's not great to be on a platform that is basically an extension of the Trump administration. So I have thought long and hard about quitting. But like any other addiction, the hand Shakes. You look in the mirror, you sweat a bit. I don't know what it would be like. Fifteen years, Hassan. You did the math.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Wait, so you're arguing?

[Mehdi Hassan]

Okay, I don't know what life was like in 2009.

[Hasan Minhaj]

You're chief.

[Mehdi Hassan]

You're asking me to go back to 2009? I don't know if I can do it.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Stop.

[Mehdi Hassan]

I owe a lot of my career. I think a lot of journalists would say they owe a lot of their career to social media and in particular, Twitter. I know I do.

[Hasan Minhaj]

I think you owe your career to your discernment, your intelligence, and your ability to share and elucidate the truth.

[Mehdi Hassan]

And I love you for saying it.

[Hasan Minhaj]

No, no.

[Mehdi Hassan]

But if a tree falls in a wood and there's no one around to hear it, yeah, doesn't matter. Like, you can be as good as you can be. But for me, what I was able to do very early on in my career as a broadcaster, because I came to broadcasting, but late, I only became a public figure in 2009, 10, about 10 years into my journalism. What I was able to do was kind of find the sweet spot online to be able to do what I do in terms of debating and interviewing and public speaking and finding a way to turn that into viral content, shareable content. I remember meeting White House officials when I moved to the United States, and they said, we've never seen your show, but your clips just turn up everywhere. That's how we know you. So in that sense, I can't kind of knock. I can't kind of shit on a social platform that actually helped me build connections, platforms, acquaintances, got me through the door of various corporate media organizations, sure.

[Hasan Minhaj]

But you realize that the more you tweet and the more viral you get, the more. The more money you're making.

[Mehdi Hassan]

Elon Musk. That's why I'm considering leaving.

[Hasan Minhaj]

People turn to journalists because they look for your discernment and specifically your clarity of thinking. When the platform is designed and incentivized for people to, quote, tweet, dunk and humiliate their opponents, it shows a level of childlike pettiness that makes one question the discernment of the information giver that is the journalist that I'm following. So that is a more sophisticated way to say it's making you crazy.

[Mehdi Hassan]

What's interesting is at a time when politicians are running away, I do tough interviews for a living, right? That's how I made my name. At a time when people are running away from tough interviews. Sunday show interviews, political Long form interviews. We had an election, which was the podcast election. Right? The. There's a reason why politicians love a podcast election. Cause podcasters tend not to grill. You may have seen Joe Rogan grill. Anyway, he doesn't do it right, so they love all that stuff. So actually, social media then becomes a little bit of a substitute where, you know, Ted Cruz is not gonna come on my show, but I'm gonna ask him a question on Twitter publicly and see if he's willing to answer it. Is that petty? Maybe in the eye of the beholder. Okay, but look, Musk himself, people. It is quite fun to see people dunk on Musk. We're speaking on the day that a Danish astronaut has made him go up the wall by mocking him about space. And Musk is now calling him the R word and having a meltdown. That's kind of fun. But I would say, as horrible as it is, that fascists have taken over the public square. Twitter existed before Elon Musk, just like Tesla existed before Elon Musk. But Twitter existed before, and I existed there before. And some of us say, well, we're not gonna be driven off public spaces, town squares, by fascists, by racists, by Nazis, by apartheid lovers, by all sorts of freaks on that side, or by a billionaire owner who works for Trump. We're gonna stay and say, all right, kick us off.

[Hasan Minhaj]

How do you think you behaved in your recent exchange with Vice President J.D. vance? Give the folks listening. This is gonna come out in a few weeks. Give the folks listening a quick recap of what you said. Yeah, he called you a dummy. And then what? Let's set this up.

[Mehdi Hassan]

So JD Vance, who is supposedly the Vice President of the United States, but technically Donald Trump is the Vice President of the United States. Elon Musk is the President of the United States. Don't quite know what J.D. vance is, but he, on behalf of the administration, goes out to him.

[Hasan Minhaj]

That's not true. That's not true. You know, he's the Vice President of the United States.

[Mehdi Hassan]

All right, all right. You want to be a J.D. vance, Stan? In this conversation, Vance goes out to Germany to the Munich Security Conference, gives a ridiculous speec, just offends all American allies on the subjects of Ukraine and other things, but decides to lecture the Europeans on free speech. Right? Because the right thing, they own free speech, and talks about how free speech is in retreat and the Brits are locking people up. And on that same Monday where people are attacking, this was, I think, on the Friday, Elon Musk goes On Twitter. His de facto boss goes on Twitter and says, 60 Minutes journalists are disgusting liars. Whatever it is they should face. I think Fraser used a long prison sentence, if I remember correctly. 60 Minutes journalists, richest man in the world, top government employee, is calling for journalists to be jailed. Cause he didn't like how they edited a Kamala Harris interview or whatever it was.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Right.

[Mehdi Hassan]

Outrageous. At the same time, the White House has blocked the Associated Press from various press briefings at the White House because they don't like the fact that the AP won't call it the Gulf of America. Cause it's not the Gulf of America, it's the Gulf of Mexico. So I, quote, tweeted at the vice president. Cause he's not gonna come on my show.

[Hasan Minhaj]

You went in for the dunk?

[Mehdi Hassan]

You say dunk. I say important question on behalf of the people. To the people in power.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Sure.

[Mehdi Hassan]

And I said, hey, J.D. vance, have you seen what Elon Musk has said about imprisoning journalists? Then a few minutes later, I quitted it again. Two's always good. And I said, hey, J.D.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Vance, I think it's the glee that's making me dunk. Have you seen the Glee?

[Mehdi Hassan]

No, no, no, no. Don't forget, I ask questions for a living. So this is what I love. Anyway, other people have. Other people have great joy. Asking questions is what I do, Hassan. I get great joy out of it. Other people might dunk. I question. That's what I've done since I was.

[Hasan Minhaj]

See, in Hindi, you gotta capture the giddiness. Or, dare I say, the good goody. The tickle in the tummy, the delight.

[Mehdi Hassan]

But hold.

[Hasan Minhaj]

No, no, no.

[Mehdi Hassan]

Hold on, hold.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Behind the posh accent, in the nice.

[Mehdi Hassan]

Typeface, there's nothing posh about it. It's just a British accent. Doesn't make it posh. Being British.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Sure. Okay.

[Mehdi Hassan]

You should travel a bit more. I would say to you that the Glee. I'm not denying the glee. But that glee is also there when a politician's sitting across my desk and I corner them and I ask a question, they can't answer. This similar glee, you'll see it on the camera sometimes. So it's just about that moment. So I thought, hey, I've got a great question here. Not thinking, you know, he's not gonna respond. But, you know, I put him on the spot twice. And important questions were asked. Hypocrisy was exposed journalism on behalf of the people. And then I went off to go snow tubing with my kids. And I came out of that to See that? The Vice President responded saying, yes, dummy. Kicking a journalist out of a briefing room is not the same as imprisoning a journalist. One is an attack on free speech, the other isn't. Which he thought was a great comeback and his people, his followers, loved it. Because the Twitter algorithm really does pump up the MAGA folks. So there was. My phone exploded. It was kind of all people dunking.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Oh, man.

[Mehdi Hassan]

The Assad gets destroyed by J.D. vance.

[Hasan Minhaj]

But also that. But also the algorithm loves name calling. It loves kind of that type of behavior.

[Mehdi Hassan]

For the record, I didn't do any name calling. Sure. And I then did my own response and I pointed out that, you know, if, okay, even if I were to concede that the AP thing is not a free speech attack, which it is.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yes.

[Mehdi Hassan]

What about the imprisoning of journalists? You'll notice that Vance did not engage with the key point, which is that if the Europeans are bad for locking up people for tweets. What about Elon Musk? He did not answer that question. Donald Trump has not answered that question. Elon Musk has not answered that question. The question remains unanswered.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Muh Muh Ma. Monster Jam.

[Mehdi Hassan]

So that was my position. So to go back to your original question, how do you think I handled it? I think I handled it well.

[Hasan Minhaj]

I would just say in general, turn down the spice.

[Mehdi Hassan]

Okay. From one desi to another.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah, turn it. Turn down the spice.

[Mehdi Hassan]

And what does that achieve?

[Hasan Minhaj]

Do you know what it feels like sometimes waking up and if I open up your feed. Cause I don't have it on my phone, I'll open it up on a web browser.

[Mehdi Hassan]

Okay.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Your feed is the equivalent of my parents screaming at each other in the kitchen. That's what your feed looks like.

[Mehdi Hassan]

But we are living in the biggest shit show of our lives and every part of our lives is on fire. So forgive me if I do a bit of shouting. Yes, Democracy is under threat. The planet is on fire. Fascists are on the rise. It's bad. That's not hyperbole. That's genuine. There's no, there's no, there's nothing in my hundred percent believe this shit.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Okay, okay, dude, I mean, the way, the way you're. You're going in, I mean, it's the way I have to be with my dad. I'm like, okay, all right. We're going to Sunday school is what it was with my dad. This episode is sponsored by Factor, which makes eating well super easy. Factor makes these really great two minute meals that get to your home Fresh and ready to eat, you can just heat them up and Enjoy. And with 45 weekly menu options, it's easy to find something that fits your vibe. Whether you're into calorie, smart, Protein plus, keto and more, they've got hearty breakfasts, grab and go lunches, gourmet dinners, and guilt free snacks and desserts. Look. Between my family, my work responsibilities and spending two hours a day watching B ball highlights, I don't have a lot of time left over for meals. But my favorite protein plus makes it super easy to stick to my goals while keeping up with the NBA postseason. Get [e-mail] Hassan 50 off and use code HUSAN50OFF to get 50% off your order plus free shipping on your first box. That's code H A S A [e-mail] Hasan50OFF for 50% off plus free shipping this episode of Hasan Minhaj Doesn't Know is brought to you by booking.com I travel a lot. Not to brag, but I've achieved elite status at several mid tier airlines and I use booking.com all the time to book hotels, rentals and flights. But you can also use it to list your own vacation rental. And as one of the most downloaded Travel apps worldwide, Booking.com helps you earn more by connecting you to a global market and consistent bookings. For the past 25 years, they have helped more than 1.8 billion vacation rental guests find places to stay. So why not use it to help them find yours? And it's not just access to amazing guests. Booking.com also makes it easy for you to run your growing business by letting you manage it on your terms. You can chat with guests, set your own calendar and control your income. Getting started takes less than 15 minutes and nearly half of partners get their first booking within a week. And if you're already listed elsewhere, you can import your info in just a few clicks. You can earn more, fill your calendar and grow your business. So for the bookings you've dreamed of, list your property on booking.com has your mind ever been changed on something?

[Mehdi Hassan]

Yes.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Being grilled the way you grill others and your spouse did not like text me. Your wife didn't text me.

[Mehdi Hassan]

It's been a bit like talking to.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Look I When is the last when is the last time someone changed your mind through this style of precisely on Twitter or using social media?

[Mehdi Hassan]

So let me put it this way. Okay, let me put it this way. Not to blow smoke up your ass, but you have asked lots of good questions today. You've made lots of good observations, ones that I've heard from other people who care about my sanity in future. I'm not gonna leave here and not dwell on that and think about that. I'm not that arrogant that I will just dismiss Hasan Minhaj. I will say, okay, has he got a point? Like, it's different. We're in the heat, there's cameras on, we're on YouTube, people are watching, whatever. But there will be a moment when it's on the train back to D.C. maybe it's when I'm going to sleep where I will run through, was that a good point? Is there a counter argument? What was the right position, et cetera? Look, off top bent. I can't think I want to last change my mind about something specific. But yes, I do try and go. Ever since I was a kid. I talk about this in the book. I was raised in a house where my dad encouraged debate. He would encourage us to take different positions. He wasn't the dad who said, you must listen to me. My way or the highway. I mean, sometimes he was really. Sometimes he was the. They see that. Like, what time are we leaving for a dinner? Then? Yeah, he sets the time. I'm talking about more like climate change or vote labor or vote Conservative in the UK really. It was always about discussion and debate. Islamic issues, religious issues. My dad's all about that debate. He doesn't want just whatever you just heard at the mosque, you must just blindly repeat it. And that was imbibed in me. So I've always read right wing news sites. I've watched Fox for my sins. I read the Daily Mail because I want to know what the other side is saying. A so I can beat them, but also separately to beating them. Actually, there may be some good points I need to take on board.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Was there ever an issue when you were going through Reddit or Daily Mail or any of the websites that you. That you mentioned that something. Something registered to you where you go, oh, like I never thought of it that way.

[Mehdi Hassan]

Yeah, many times off the.

[Hasan Minhaj]

But you get. But you can't. They go off the top of your head. Yes. Okay.

[Mehdi Hassan]

Because policy, domestic policy, moral issues.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Because in my mind I was always just thinking you were just doing E Honda hands to every. Just batting away every. Every talking point that does.

[Mehdi Hassan]

People think that. Unfortunately I have this kind of weird image where people assume that about me.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Okay.

[Mehdi Hassan]

But I'm very open minded.

[Hasan Minhaj]

You think so?

[Mehdi Hassan]

And humble.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Okay, you don't think so now you're Just being a liar.

[Mehdi Hassan]

Okay.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Okay. One of the things that you talk about in your book is you say you need to flatter your audience.

[Mehdi Hassan]

Yeah.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Chapter one is one of the best.

[Mehdi Hassan]

Interviewer I've ever come across. This is the best interviewer.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Oh, so what you're doing is in chapter one, he's heaping praise. This is what he does in chapter one. Ok. You wrote. I cannot tell you the number of US cities where I have been invited to speak or debate, where I open my remarks by suggesting that this particular city was my favorite city in America. Mr. Huss.

[Mehdi Hassan]

Yes.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Pandering is a lie.

[Mehdi Hassan]

Yeah, I agree. I'm not hiding it. I literally wrote it in a book that sold.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Okay.

[Mehdi Hassan]

It's advice. It's real. It works. Right? It's harmless white lie.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Would you like to take a moment to apologize to the cities that you lied to?

[Mehdi Hassan]

No, not at all. In fact, I'm gonna revisit some of those cities and say the same thing again and assume that they didn't watch your YouTube video.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Okay.

[Mehdi Hassan]

Catch me out if you can.

[Hasan Minhaj]

I love. You know what?

[Mehdi Hassan]

Actually, I'm going to Seattle this weekend. Oh, I've heard it's beautiful. It's going to be amazing.

[Hasan Minhaj]

You know what I love? I love this is going to air.

[Mehdi Hassan]

Off to Seattle? Yeah, sure.

[Hasan Minhaj]

And I love that you stand ten toes down.

[Mehdi Hassan]

I can't not fully own it. I literally wrote it in a book, published it and sold it online. People have it. I'm not going to hide from it. It's good, actually. My daughter said to us, around the witches, why are you admitting all this stuff? Why are you giving it all away? And one congressman says, I'm gonna read it, so I know what to do when I go on the show. Look, it was very generous of me to share all these tips and pointers because I gen. No, genuinely, you won't believe me, but genuinely, one of the reasons I wrote the book is because I'm so fed up of my side. Whether my side is the left, whether my side is brown people, whether my side is immigrants, whether my side is Muslims just losing across the board in debates that should be won because they're not equipped with the right skills. And the other side cynically is. And that's why I put a lot of cynical stuff in there. Cause we need to be a bit cynical.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Okay, well, let's go through some game tape. All right? In the book, you go through some of your greatest hits and you break down how you pulled it off.

[Mehdi Hassan]

Yep.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Okay. You called out John Bolton for taking money from the mek. You caught Erik Prince in a lie about congressional testimony. And you, in each anecdote, every single one of these anecdotes, I know where this is going. You say how many fucking views the clip got on YouTube because as we know, you have an addiction to clout. Oh, you. Oh, you love. You love clout more than the truth. The fact that this had to be an addendum.

[Mehdi Hassan]

You're a stand up comedian. What the fuck are you doing? Give me a lecture about clout.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Hey, buddy, buddy. I already indicted myself in my second special, so.

[Mehdi Hassan]

We both love clout.

[Hasan Minhaj]

There's minutes devoted to it.

[Mehdi Hassan]

Yeah, I like clout.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Let's focus on one particular.

[Mehdi Hassan]

I was trying to give context.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Okay.

[Mehdi Hassan]

You know, this was an interview that did.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Well, no, no, no, no. It's, it's.

[Mehdi Hassan]

I'm trying to help the reader understand that if you get it right, it can be successful.

[Hasan Minhaj]

No, no, no. I felt like I was in a relationship with you and we're about to go to a party and you put on a fedora as we're walking out of the house and I go, don't. Don't do the fedora.

[Mehdi Hassan]

If you were bad as a.

[Hasan Minhaj]

You're gonna remember if you're mad as.

[Mehdi Hassan]

You would have come and said, take this out immediately. Take this out.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yes. Let's focus on one particular piece of game tape. Okay. When you interviewed Saudi Arabia's ambassador to the un.

[Mehdi Hassan]

Oh, yes. Abdullah Al Mu Alami.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Okay, so this is a goat Maidi Hassan moment. So I'll start with the inbound pass here. Okay. Okay, let's cue this up.

[Mehdi Hassan]

So you want to see an elected government in Syria after Assad goes? Well, yes. That's the process that we hope will take place in Syria. So many people might say that's a good thing. There should be democracy in Syria. There should be an elected government in Syria. But they might also wonder, why are you okay with an elected government in Syria but not an elected government in Saudi Arabia? If the people of Syria get to choose their own rulers or head of state, why can't the people of Saudi Arabia choose their own head of speaker? Go and ask the people of Saudi Arabia, are you happy with your. Of course you can. No, it's illegal in Saudi Arabia to call for a change in the government, to call for the king to. I didn't say go and call for a change of government. I said go and call the issue. That is the issue. No, no, it's not. How can I, as a Saudi say, I want a different system of government. If it's illegal for me to say that, I'm saying that if there was a way by which you can ask the common people in the street anonymously, privately, there is called voting. Well, I.

[Hasan Minhaj]

We voting along the lines, ooh, maybe.

[Mehdi Hassan]

Understated and thoughtful dunk.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Nicely done.

[Mehdi Hassan]

Thank you, sir. Did I dunk on him? I'm just wondering. See, that's what I like. You like that, right? Did you like that?

[Hasan Minhaj]

Let's see what you wrote.

[Mehdi Hassan]

Okay.

[Hasan Minhaj]

This made your Google Doc. Then it made it through your editor. Then it got printed. Quote, I created a receipt. I put the ambassador on the defensive, and I produced a very unique, very watchable, very viral interview.

[Mehdi Hassan]

Out of context, that sentence sounds bad. What you did in the context of the chapter. In the context of the chapter, I'm trying to give advice to aspiring debaters and interviewers. Sounds bad when you just pull it out like that.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Oh, my God.

[Mehdi Hassan]

Was it a very watchable clip?

[Hasan Minhaj]

Maybe.

[Mehdi Hassan]

Clearly it was. You put it there. But did it have value? Did it not expose the complete immorality at the heart of a lot of the Gulf state strategy when it came to Syria?

[Hasan Minhaj]

Sure.

[Mehdi Hassan]

Was it not an interview that you don't often see Saudi officials held to account for the lack of democracy? You don't see the CNNs or the BBC's asking those questions.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yes. And this is what I want to get to. In all seriousness, one of the things you mention in the book is how much prep you put into these interviews. So let's take that moment. How much prep went into that moment, going into the interview?

[Mehdi Hassan]

I mean, it was seven, eight years ago. I don't remember the exact. Several weeks in the number of weeks, not days.

[Hasan Minhaj]

But that specific moment did you know. I'm trying to get to that moment.

[Mehdi Hassan]

So that moment is those moments. And there's moments with Erik Prince and others that you see recently. I did a. There was one with Vivek Ramaswamy. These kind of moments where you wait, you get. Sometimes it happens, sometimes they don't happen. And to go back to your point about Glee, you know that you'll see it's in me.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yes.

[Mehdi Hassan]

Where. Yes. You plan for. We're going to say this, they're going to say that, and then I'm going to say this. And it doesn't always go to plan, but sometimes it does. Right.

[Hasan Minhaj]

So the Ramaswamy moment for the viewers are watching. He came on your show.

[Mehdi Hassan]

Yeah.

[Hasan Minhaj]

You wanted to talk specifically about his tax returns. You pull out the Tax returns.

[Mehdi Hassan]

I released 20 years of tax returns. Yes. Something that no presidential candidate, let alone somebody who's successful in business has done. I challenge Democrats and Republicans alike, including the Biden family, to do it. And we looked at them. I released it so that you could look at them so we can have an conversation. Appreciate that. The funny thing, I do appreciate that transparency is important. So here's, here's two things on the. And everybody can see it. Exactly. We have 2,000. But the fact of the matter is.

[Hasan Minhaj]

You know what I would advise everybody?

[Mehdi Hassan]

Hold on. You told me 24 year old scholarship takes and 2010, you made $750,000. You had the money to pay for law school. You didn't need a Soros affirmative action scholarship that you now criticize.

[Hasan Minhaj]

I mean, none of this is worthy.

[Mehdi Hassan]

But if you think it is, let's get to the detail. That was actually the first worthy. You say anti affirmative action. You took a scholarship for immigrants. So why did you take a scholarship for children and immigrants?

[Hasan Minhaj]

Which falsehood would you like me to address? The financial one or the.

[Mehdi Hassan]

Or the one about my views on affirmative action? Because I can go in whichever order you want. The financial piece of it. Not at the time that I had applied for the scholarship that fall. Yes, you did. In December. Yes, you did absolutely $50,000 returns. You made $750,000 and then you accepted a Soros scholarship for $50,000 when you didn't need it.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Tax return research dog.

[Mehdi Hassan]

Here's what's interesting. I don't want to talk about tax credit. I want to talk about scholarship money that he took from Soros that he was under pressure from the right for. I watched preparation. I watched every interview he'd done in the previous month, including the night before. And I noticed that his go to move was to go. If you look at my tax returns from that period, you'll see I didn't make that much money at the time. So that was where we go, okay, let's get the damn tax returns. Let's highlight them, hold them up on the screen and show that he's actually bullshitting. And he didn't expect me to have them because most us interviews don't prepare in that way. Sure. So yeah, a lot of preparation goes in stuff. I have a great team of people at Zatteo, where I am now. Previously at msnbc, at Al Jazeera. I've always been lucky to work with a great team of producers and researchers who will go the distance to get the receipts.

[Hasan Minhaj]

So now you're at Zateo, Right?

[Mehdi Hassan]

Yeah.

[Hasan Minhaj]

And so some of your all time dunks were when you were at msnbc.

[Mehdi Hassan]

Dunk is your word, not mine.

[Hasan Minhaj]

What do you call it?

[Mehdi Hassan]

All time public service, journalistic interviews.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Public service journalistic interviews. Not a dunk. That are very watchable.

[Mehdi Hassan]

That are very watchable. That are sometimes go viral through no plan.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Very viral.

[Mehdi Hassan]

Very viral. You got me on the viral. Fine, I concede.

[Hasan Minhaj]

You cannot even read what you wrote without laughing. You can't read it with a straight face being like, what the what? Minikyakia. Oh, God, what did I do? What did I do? Just even if you.

[Mehdi Hassan]

That is a New York Times bestselling book. It's not the very sentence.

[Hasan Minhaj]

This is something.

[Mehdi Hassan]

Rule of three.

[Hasan Minhaj]

You would tweet. Donald Trump would also tweet. And it's something my dad would WhatsApp. Please take a look at this. It's very unique, very watchable and very viral.

[Mehdi Hassan]

It was a mistake. I wish I could go back in a time machine to 2022 and edit that sentence.

[Hasan Minhaj]

You know what it does?

[Mehdi Hassan]

Knowing that in 2025, Hassan Minhaj would hold me.

[Hasan Minhaj]

What I love about it is that.

[Mehdi Hassan]

And he would dunk on me over that sentence. You are dunking on me.

[Hasan Minhaj]

This is a dunk. I am dunking on you.

[Mehdi Hassan]

No public service.

[Hasan Minhaj]

But there's no public service.

[Mehdi Hassan]

It's a free dunk.

[Hasan Minhaj]

It's a free dunk. What's interesting is that you have worked for so many, I would call them elite legacy media institutions and people oftentimes call those, hey, you're an insider, you're an industry insider. You get incredible access to all of these powerful heads of state. Now you're running Zateo News. This is your journalistic endeavor and it is your company. Do you feel that because you were pushed out of legacy media and that you had to leave legacy media? Do you feel that you've lost some of your ability to hold power to account in that way?

[Mehdi Hassan]

It's a good question. And one of the risks of leaving MSNBC and choosing to leave MSNBC and start my own thing was of course, that issue of access and platform and reach. Because there were a lot of good things about working at msnbc. I'm very grateful for the three and a half years I had there. It didn't end quite the way I wanted it to, but the platform was great. Members of Congress, members of the administration, members of foreign government, just like Al Jazeera offers a great platform. In similar way, they do a show currently called Head to Head where we get great guests on. We just had the former President of Sri Lanka. So, yes, starting a new media outfit. It is tricky, but I think we've punched above our weight. I mean, our opening show last year was with Ehud Olmet, the former Prime Minister of Israel. Uh, we've had senators, members of Congress on the show. Um, we've had Republicans. I mean, it's hard to get Republicans, Israeli guests, people to clash with. Uh, we've had celebrities on the show. I believe you've been on a podcast of ours.

[Hasan Minhaj]

You are a mentally ill person, but I love you regardless and so is the other person on Twitter.

[Mehdi Hassan]

I lie down on a couch today with you. Today hasn't I felt. So we've had. We've had some. We've had some successes, but, yeah, clearly it's an ongoing challenge. The interesting thing is, I think it's a challenge for everyone right now, because I think the old days of everyone just goes on. Meet the Press are dying anyways. Republicans have their right wing safe space anyways. The people who now run the country, run the Senate, the House, the White House, the Supreme Court. They can just go to Fox or Oann or Newsmax and get, you know, massaged. So it's a challenge for all of us. And I think access journalism is, as a model, super broken. The future is in danger, and people don't quite know how to get around it.

[Hasan Minhaj]

What is access journalism?

[Mehdi Hassan]

So this idea that you're trading coverage for closeness and proximity, right. You be my source in the White House and I will write favorably about you. Or if not favorably, I won't write certain things you don't want me to write about. And I think the American public have wised up to that and are pretty upset about the corruption that is associated with access journalism. Not all access journalism is bad. If you are a post of a Sunday show, clearly you want Lindsey Graham to come back again right now. Does that psychologically influence you not to maybe grill Lindsey Graham as hard as you could do if you didn't care about him coming back? So my position will be, I don't care if you come back. That was my position at msnbc. That's my position at Al Jazeera. I live in the moment. This interview needs to be the best possible interview. If that upsets you, if Vivek Ramaswamy never does an interview again, oh, what a shame. We'll cross that bridge. When I did John Bolton, he ended the interview, he was like, you're done. The time's up. John Bolton's Never going to do another interview with me, but I'm fine with that. The interview was worth doing in the way I did it. But look, I understand that other journalists are in different situations. And I'm a young congressional reporter trying to make a name for myself. I need contacts in Congress. I can't piss them all off with awkward questions. I get that. But it is a dilemma for the viewer at home who doesn't like access journalism for understandable reasons.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Well, let's talk about the reason why both me and you are on YouTube. Gaza. Back in November 2020 three days before your MSNBC show was canceled, you interviewed a senior advisor to Benjamin Netanyahu. Okay, this was a 15 minute interview, but I just want to show you a moment.

[Mehdi Hassan]

I have seen lots of children with my own lying eyes being pulled from the rubble. Because they're the pictures Hamas wants you to see. Exactly. Because they're dead. They're also people that your government has killed. You accept that, right? You've killed children. Or do you deny it? No, I do not. I do not. I do not. First of all, you don't know how those people died. Those children. Oh, wow.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Is that the interview that got you canceled or was it the Twitter beefs?

[Mehdi Hassan]

You would have to ask msnbc. Us. How do I know why? They told me it was for business reasons.

[Hasan Minhaj]

What do you believe?

[Mehdi Hassan]

I have to save that for another book.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Okay. And by the way, I'm happy to lift this. Happy to lift this.

[Mehdi Hassan]

If you don't want to, you can keep whatever you want.

[Hasan Minhaj]

If you don't want me to ask.

[Mehdi Hassan]

You can ask me.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Okay.

[Mehdi Hassan]

But my position is MSNBC knows why they cancel my shows. They have their reasons. They have every right to pull whatever show they want to pull. They offered me a chance to stay on as a guest anchor and on air pundit. It's not really what I wanted to do. Not in 2024. As you said at the start of the interview, I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things. So I couldn't be sitting on the bench. That's why I went out and said, look, let me just go and I'll do my own thing. And they graciously let me leave.

[C]

Hey, Julia, Louis Dreyfus here. If you listen to me on my Wiser Than Me podcast, you probably already know that I'm an investor and an evangelist for the mill food recycler. There are a lot of reasons to love mill, but for me, it's all about the impact. Keeping food out of the garbage is one of the most powerful things we can do to help the planet. Every single we're talking banana peels, carrot tops, old takeout. When that stuff heads to the landfill, it becomes a huge driver of climate change. If you already compost, great. But of course there's the smell, the flies, the running to the curb every day with a little leaking compost bag made of cornstarch. That's where mill comes in. It makes keeping food out of the trash as easy as dropping it in. It can handle nearly anything from a turkey carcass to like 20 avocado pits. It works automatically while you sleep. You can keep filling it for weeks and it never ever smells. Mill makes dry, nutrient rich grounds that you can use in your garden, add to your compost, feed to your chickens, or mill can get them back to a small farm for you. But you kind of have to live with mill to really get it. And that's why they offer a risk free trial. Go to mill.com wiser for an exclusive offer.

[Hasan Minhaj]

The election has come and gone. Now we're in a new era.

[C]

It can be easy to get discouraged.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Frustrated, but you can't afford not to pay attention. You need trustworthy independent journalism to cut through the noise and hold power to account. I'm Mary Harris, host of What Next.

[C]

From Slate.com we are a daily news.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Podcast with a kind of transparent, smart, yet tongue in cheek analysis you can only find at Slate. Follow and listen to what Next wherever you get your podcasts, we're both old enough to remember 911 and its aftermath. Right there was the shock, the Islamophobia, violent overreaction and gradual resistance, peaking with the Iraq war protests. Right now, today, it's universally viewed as a huge failure in foreign policy, specifically American foreign policy and America's overreaction. 22 years later, October 7th happens. We have the same play, but much faster. Heartbreak, shock, racism, military overreaction, protest, backlash. The dust settles. Question mark. What similarities do you see in the arcs of both of those stories in American history? What difference do you see?

[Mehdi Hassan]

It's a great question. And like you, I've thought long and hard about the analogy with the Iraq war on multiple levels. The lies that were told getting into the Iraq War, similar lies that were told about Gaza, about and some of the propaganda that was laundered through, quote unquote, liberal media, WMDs, et cetera. The sheer level of suffering that was inflicted on a place in the Middle east, some faraway place that most Americans, Brits, would struggle to find on a map. And of Course, as you say, the legacy, the political fallout where everyone at the time backed it blindly, jingoistically, emotively, and then slowly, slowly started edging away from the scene of the crime. And it was a crime. Iraq and Gaza is also a crime. And. And you know Omar Al Akkad, who's an Egyptian Canadian journalist, has a new book out called One Day Everyone Will Always have been against this. It's about Gaza. When I saw that title and I've read the book and I interviewed the guy, it just does bring back Iraq memories and war on terror memories. Everyone's now saying, oh, Afghanistan was a disaster. But I was the guy writing Afghanistan's a disaster in 2009, 10 11, and getting attacked for your pro Taliban for saying that. I was the guy who marched against the Iraq war with millions of other people. We were told we were stooges for Saddam Hussein. Today, everyone's against the Iraq war. So I do think in years to come, if we have a future, historians will look back and say a bunch of people in the west were on the wrong side of a genocide. And I think they will regret having been on the wrong side of history on this one. I just don't think you can defend what people have done to enable this genocide, be complicit in this genocide. From the President of the United States to media owners, to journalists who didn't say a word about their fellow journalists in Gaza being killed at record levels. I think a lot of people, if they have any shame whatsoever. And the problem is we have a lot of shameless people these days who you can't shame, Will. And I'm not concerned about the right wingers because they are shameless. I'm talking about the liberals, the progressives, people who feel good about themselves, take all the right stances on every issue except Palestine. The peps progressive except Palestine. I think they will look back in years to come and feel utter shame for what they support or at least turned a blind eye to.

[Hasan Minhaj]

I do believe that there's an interesting moment where you've engaged in this debate on legacy media. I don't know if you remember the CNN panel moment that you had with Ryan Gradisky.

[Mehdi Hassan]

Hard to forget that one.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah. How do I pronounce his name? Ryan Gardisky?

[Mehdi Hassan]

I don't give a shit.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Whoa. Really?

[Mehdi Hassan]

I mean, he's an unpleasant man. I don't really care how you gotcha.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Okay, how do I pronounce it? Scott?

[Mehdi Hassan]

He doesn't care. None of us care. If you don't want to Be called Nazis. Stop doing people.

[Hasan Minhaj]

No by me. I never called you. I mean, I'm not sitting here saying.

[Mehdi Hassan]

I'm a supporter of the Palestinians. I'm used to it.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah, well, I hope your beeper doesn't go off. The thing is, is that you should not.

[Mehdi Hassan]

No, you just said I should be.

[Hasan Minhaj]

No, I did not say that.

[Mehdi Hassan]

Hold on, hold on, hold on.

[Hasan Minhaj]

He basically said that you were a terrorist and you should die. In your experience with American liberal media, do you think moments like that are outliers or is something like this always bubbling underneath the surface?

[Mehdi Hassan]

No, always bubbling under the surface. I mean, this has been around for years, including liberal media. I mean, just on CNN itself, they have a commentator right now, Scott Jennings, who's become very popular online for dunking on liberals, who referred to Ilhan Omar as the member for Hamas or some referenced pro Hamas member of Congress. He called her. Like this is a common trait. Unfortunately, Islamophobia, as you know very well, Hassan, and you've spoken about this on stage, has been normalized and mainstreamed in this country pre 9 11, but especially post 911 and post Donald Trump. And I think you can now say things about Muslims and Arabs and Palestinians that you couldn't say about anyone else. Jesse Waters on Fox recently talked about exploding birth rates. No one wants these people. There's so many of them. It is, you know, Nazi esque rhetoric, the way that Germans in the 1930s were talking about their Jewish minorities. So this is where we've got to now. Like I said, it's easy to dunk on Fox and the right wings. I expect nothing from the right. It's where the real disappointment and frustration and anger comes from, is when liberal media is complicit and stuff, when people who are would never dare say the stuff they say about Muslims, about any other minority community. And that is a real problem. And you know, that night on cnn, I walked off set. I've never walked. I've been doing live TV for 15 years.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Wow, you walked off set.

[Mehdi Hassan]

I never walked off set.

[Hasan Minhaj]

I didn't know that.

[Mehdi Hassan]

Yeah, I waited till the break. Maybe I should have done it dramatically, pulled off the wire. I walked off in the ad break and I had to because I thought if I sit there and continue, they, you know, Abby, to be fair, to apologize, et cetera, the host. But for me, I felt I would be letting down not just myself, but a lot of people who were offended rightly on my behalf by just staying on the show and just chatting about the next story, you know, whatever it was climate change or whatever the next block was on. I had to make a point. This is unacceptable. You can't, you shouldn't be. You can, you shouldn't be allowed to say stuff like this and get away with it on American television.

[Hasan Minhaj]

In that moment, were you thinking, I mean, there's a lot of thoughts crossing your mind. So, so trying to, trying to put you in that scene, in that moment, and it may be tough for you to remember, were you thinking to yourself, okay, is this, is this person literally believing what he's saying? Does he literally want you to blow up? Or do you think he's trying to say a very dark joke that did not land?

[Mehdi Hassan]

Oh, I think that was a very dark joke that he came with that. The idea that he came up with spontaneously. He came with that pre packaged joke. You remember his denial when I said, you said this to me, and he says, oh, I thought you said you're pro Hamas. Ridiculous. Why would I sit on stage and say I'm pro Hamas? Ridiculous thing to say? Clearly I didn't say that, by the way. Even I did say that. It doesn't mean I get blown up. But I didn't say that I don't support Hamas. He came with that one liner, which he thought he could get away with. This is the key point. He thought he could get away with it and just carry on the show. And had I not walked out, they probably wouldn't have kicked him out as well. And I had to. And people have said to me afterwards, oh, you handle it so well. I don't think I handled it well. I was kind of super emotional, super angry. Luckily, I have no skills in life, apart from God gave me a big mouth and I was able to call him out right then and there, which maybe some other people wouldn't have done. But I don't take any credit for that. It's just something I did in the heat of the moment, instinctively that I wasn't gonna let that comment pass. I mean, you see my face if you watch that clip. I'm kind of like, did you just. I mean. And this beeper thing, by the way, has now become a very common trope in right wing pro Israel circles. If you go on Twitter, people will just put beeper emojis underneath pro Palestinian camps. Norman Finkelstein, who was stopped in the street in Brooklyn and somebody came with a beeper in his pocket and to say he's pro terrorist and he should die. So this is the kind of crap again, it's the dehumanization of Arabs, Muslims, Palestinians. You just wouldn't do this in any other political context.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Listen, this has been an amazing conversation. I wanna ramp down here. I just have a complaint. I've raised a lot of complaints with you. You have, but these are my final complaints.

[Mehdi Hassan]

Okay, cool.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Okay. A lot of times I will have.

[Mehdi Hassan]

I'm so nice to you on my side.

[Hasan Minhaj]

I will have. I'm trying to be helpful.

[Mehdi Hassan]

That's fine. I'm going straight from here to a shrink.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Okay. I'll cover the interest. I have a lot of sitting politicians. I've had many powerful people that come on the show. I don't know why, but they call humble Brack.

[Mehdi Hassan]

I think that's humble bracket.

[Hasan Minhaj]

They could go to a million different jobs.

[Mehdi Hassan]

Did you produce watchable viral content?

[Hasan Minhaj]

That's. It's very watchable and very viral, but inevitably people will come up to me. Why didn't you ask them about X?

[Mehdi Hassan]

Yeah, you should have done. Yes.

[Hasan Minhaj]

And I think people like your Obama interview.

[Mehdi Hassan]

I bet they said that. I bet brown people said that after Obama.

[Hasan Minhaj]

No, no, no. People want me, Hassan Minhaj, to be Mehli Hassan.

[Mehdi Hassan]

Yeah.

[Hasan Minhaj]

That's the key problem.

[Mehdi Hassan]

You're like, why would I be that crazy Twitter addict?

[Hasan Minhaj]

Well, can you just please tell the audience I'm not you?

[Mehdi Hassan]

Which camera do you want me to look at? This one. I am Mehdi Hassan and I ask tough questions and do dunks. I am not Hasan Minhaj, who tells great jokes but doesn't ask tough questions. That's not his role, to ask tough questions. Unless he's interviewing Mehdi Hassan, then he brings all the tough questions. Do you think you did a tougher interview with me than with Senator Chris Murphy? You're having to think about it, which itself speaks volumes.

[Hasan Minhaj]

No, I'm harder on you.

[Mehdi Hassan]

I was harder on you, fellow Brandman.

[Hasan Minhaj]

No, no, no, Because.

[Mehdi Hassan]

Because you love me.

[Hasan Minhaj]

I cut deeper because you love me. Yeah, yeah.

[Mehdi Hassan]

Because you feel. Intervention.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Correct.

[Mehdi Hassan]

Interview or intervention?

[Hasan Minhaj]

Intervention.

[Mehdi Hassan]

Okay. Did it work? We'll find out soon enough.

[Hasan Minhaj]

We'll find out.

[Mehdi Hassan]

I'm scared now to tweet after I leave this room because you're watching me closely.

[Hasan Minhaj]

So you're a brown man. That goes on many shows.

[Mehdi Hassan]

Yep.

[Hasan Minhaj]

And you were asked, do you condemn? Blank. That's generally what they start with. And then they ask you what your name is.

[Mehdi Hassan]

Yes.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Okay. So I want to play a new game with you.

[Mehdi Hassan]

Okay.

[Hasan Minhaj]

On Hasan Minhaj doesn't know. It's called condone or condemn. Sorry. It's condemn or condone. Sorry. Condemn or condone. Olaf and Frozen. Condemn or condone?

[Mehdi Hassan]

Condemn.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Polyamory.

[Mehdi Hassan]

I don't know who that is. Oh, polyamory. Oh, I thought it was a person. Polyamory. Polyamory. Like marrying more than one person. Polygamy. I don't. There's a difference between polyamory and polygamy.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Polyamory is sleeping with various people at the same time.

[Mehdi Hassan]

Oh, condemn. I'm a brown Muslim. I'm gonna condemn that.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Meghan and Harry condemn.

[Mehdi Hassan]

But I condemn the royal family. More just. I don't like any of them. It's not like I'm pro royal family. I like all of them.

[Hasan Minhaj]

You don't like all of them. Wash the crown.

[Mehdi Hassan]

Condemn them. I don't watch the crown.

[Hasan Minhaj]

You condemn.

[Mehdi Hassan]

I condemn the crown.

[Hasan Minhaj]

You gotta.

[Mehdi Hassan]

I condemn the crown. I condemn the crown. I'm gonna lose my British passport over this. First you got Sadiq can't.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Emmy Hamilton.

[Mehdi Hassan]

I haven't seen it, so I don't know how to condemn.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Condemn or condone?

[Mehdi Hassan]

Condemn then. Cause I haven't seen it.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah. Boca Haram.

[Mehdi Hassan]

Hamilton to Boko Haram.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Condemn or condone?

[Mehdi Hassan]

I condemn. I condemn. Condemn. Gutter. Damn it.

[Hasan Minhaj]

I condemn good people. Who spelled your name? M E, D, D, H, I. Oh.

[Mehdi Hassan]

Someone did that just today. Condemn.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Condemn it.

[Mehdi Hassan]

Condemn. M, E, H, D, I.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Good.

[Mehdi Hassan]

And it's Hassan with one S for both of us.

[Hasan Minhaj]

One S for both of us. One S for both of us. But there's other. There's other Hassan's with double S. They all won't conduct double S. And we condone that. White people who discover cardamom and then repeatedly put it on everything. Condemn or condone?

[Mehdi Hassan]

Condemn. 100%.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Condemn this game. Condemn or condone?

[Mehdi Hassan]

Oh, condemn. It's a racist, racist game.

[Hasan Minhaj]

This. This game's racist because it's racist. This interview. Condemn or condone?

[Mehdi Hassan]

Condone.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Maybe Hassan.

[Mehdi Hassan]

Thank you so much. Thank you very much.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Thank you. Thank you so much.

[Mehdi Hassan]

Oh, my word. That was a tough one. How long was that?