Am I a Bad Dad? with Dr. Becky

Summary

Podcast Title: Hasan Minhaj Doesn't Know
Episode: Am I a Bad Dad? with Dr. Becky
Release Date: March 19, 2025

In this enlightening episode of Hasan Minhaj Doesn't Know, Hasan Minhaj engages in a deep and humorous conversation with Dr. Becky Kennedy, a renowned clinical psychologist, bestselling author, and advocate for the gentle parenting movement. Together, they explore the complexities of modern parenting, offering insights into fostering emotional resilience, setting boundaries, and navigating the challenges that contemporary parents face.

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1. Introduction to Dr. Becky Kennedy

The episode opens with Hasan Minhaj introducing Dr. Becky Kennedy, highlighting her credentials and her influence in the gentle parenting sphere. Dr. Becky emphasizes that effective parenting is not about making children perpetually happy but about building long-term resilience.

[02:29] Dr. Becky Kennedy: "Our job isn't to make our kids happy. We're not optimizing for short-term comfort. We're optimizing for long-term resilience."

2. The Challenges of Modern Parenting

Hasan and Dr. Becky delve into whether parenting has become inherently more difficult or if societal overthinking has exacerbated the challenges.

[04:35] Dr. Becky Kennedy: "I actually think parenting is harder, but not because we're overthinking it. Kids are oriented by attachment... In the world we live in now, it's hard to be as connected to your kid. We're connected to our phones. We're very, very busy. We're very distracted."

Dr. Becky underscores that children today require immense attention and connection, which is often hindered by the pervasive distractions of technology and busy lifestyles.

3. Emotional Safety vs. Physical Safety

The conversation transitions to the shift from past parenting concerns—like physical safety threats such as kidnappings—to today's focus on emotional safety.

[05:55] Hasan Minhaj: "The obsession was all about physical safety... It slowly shifted to what I think presently is an obsession with emotional safety."

Dr. Becky discusses how excessive concern for emotional safety can lead to helicopter parenting, where parents might overprotect their children from any form of emotional discomfort, potentially stunting their ability to handle real-world challenges.

4. Gentle vs. Sturdy Parenting

A pivotal moment in the discussion is differentiating between "gentle parenting" and what Dr. Becky advocates as "sturdy parenting." She clarifies misconceptions around gentle parenting, emphasizing firmness and warmth without permissiveness.

[09:13] Dr. Becky Kennedy: "I actually don't really know because I don't consider myself a gentle parent... To me, sturdy parenting embodies firm boundaries with warmth and consistency."

This section highlights the importance of being a reliable and consistent presence in a child's life, akin to the role of leaders and mentors in other aspects of society.

5. Building Emotional Resilience in Children

Dr. Becky introduces the concept of nurturing emotional resilience by allowing children to experience and navigate a wide range of emotions.

[08:46] Dr. Becky Kennedy: "Being safe in the world actually means that you're able to deal with the widest range of feelings... The more in childhood we narrow the range of emotions that our kids get to feel, the more we narrow the range of adult situations they feel competent in."

She emphasizes that exposure to various emotions without undue constraint helps children become adept at handling future adversities.

6. Dealing with Shame and Fear

The discussion takes a personal turn as Hasan shares his experiences with shame and fear from his upbringing. Dr. Becky explores the impact of these emotions on both parents and children.

[20:05] Hasan Minhaj: "Shame and fear were very big in my childhood... I flinch if someone comes in for a hug because I think they're gonna hit me."

[20:17] Dr. Becky Kennedy: "I think American adolescence has been so tough... They’re kind of like, I am not scared of you anymore."

Dr. Becky argues that raising children with fear can lead to strained relationships and rebellious behavior during adolescence, advocating instead for approaches that foster trust and open communication.

7. Dr. Becky’s Children's Book: "That's My Truck"

Transitioning to her work beyond psychology, Dr. Becky discusses her children's book, "That's My Truck," which illustrates managing emotions and repairing relationships after conflicts.

[28:30] Dr. Becky Kennedy: "It's a story that really brings to life this idea of most generous interpretation... It’s not perfect, but our lives with our kids aren't."

The book serves as a practical tool for parents to address feelings like rage, shame, and reconciliation in a relatable and constructive manner.

8. Rapid-Fire Parenting Questions

In the concluding segment, Hasan and Dr. Becky engage in a rapid-fire Q&A, addressing common parenting dilemmas with concise and actionable advice.

• Stickers as Incentives:

  [26:41] Hasan Minhaj: "I use a sticker chart for my responsibilities. What are your thoughts on stickers as incentives for adults and children?"

  [26:51] Dr. Becky Kennedy: "If it works for you and doesn't harm anyone, that's great. For children, over-reliance on stickers can backfire, leading to entitlement."

• Handling Mornings and Transitions:

  Through role-play, Hasan illustrates morning struggles with his son, seeking Dr. Becky's strategies for smoother transitions.

  [16:10] Dr. Becky Kennedy: "It's important to slow down and understand before intervening. Recognize that learning is hard and shame makes it worse."

• Explaining Concepts to Children:

  [31:25] Dr. Becky Kennedy: "You cannot force your child to eat vegetables. Offer choices and let them decide."

  [31:30] Hasan Minhaj: "Is it okay to bribe my kids?"

  [31:40] Dr. Becky Kennedy: "With candy once in a while, sure. But money as a bribe can be problematic."

• Balancing Screen Time and Attention:

  [31:47] Dr. Becky Kennedy: "If you need to use your phone, communicate that briefly and return your attention promptly."

• Handling Bullying and Lies:

  [32:04] Dr. Becky Kennedy: "I would not threaten the parents of a child who bullies yours. Instead, focus on understanding and addressing the behavior constructively."

  [32:43] Dr. Becky Kennedy: "When catching your kids in a lie, explore what's preventing them from telling the truth and address the underlying issues."

• Explaining Death:

  [32:54] Dr. Becky Kennedy: "Death is when the body stops working."

9. Conclusion

The episode wraps up with Hasan expressing gratitude towards Dr. Becky for her profound insights and practical advice. The dynamic interplay of humor and heartfelt conversation offers listeners both entertainment and valuable guidance on navigating the intricate world of parenting.

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Notable Quotes:

• Dr. Becky Kennedy ([02:29]): "Our job isn't to make our kids happy. We're not optimizing for short-term comfort. We're optimizing for long-term resilience."

• Dr. Becky Kennedy ([08:18]): "Being safe in the world actually means that you're able to deal with the widest range of feelings."

• Dr. Becky Kennedy ([25:13]): "You cannot destroy me," emphasizing the role of parents as sturdy leaders for their children.

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This episode serves as a comprehensive guide for parents seeking to balance warmth with firmness, fostering an environment where children can thrive emotionally and socially. Dr. Becky Kennedy's expertise, coupled with Hasan Minhaj's relatable anecdotes, makes for an engaging and informative listen for anyone grappling with the questions: Am I a bad dad?

Transcript

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[Hassan Minhaj]

Now this is one of the biggest challenges that a lot of modern parents have, which is iPad screen time.

[Dr. Becky Kennedy]

Yep.

[Hassan Minhaj]

I'm going to role play.

[Dr. Becky Kennedy]

Okay.

[Hassan Minhaj]

I will be a child. You will be the parent.

[Dr. Becky Kennedy]

Great.

[Hassan Minhaj]

Without physically assaulting me.

[Dr. Becky Kennedy]

Shouldn't be a problem.

[Hassan Minhaj]

You have to get me to not be on my iPad. Let's fly it in. This is dad. He gives me the iPad.

[Dr. Becky Kennedy]

Hey, sweetie, there's about five more minutes left on your iPad. Hey, look at me. Hey, sweetie, if you don't look at me right now, I am gonna put my hands over the screen and that's gonna be really unfortunate.

[Hassan Minhaj]

Cause you're not gonna get to finish.

[Dr. Becky Kennedy]

What? It's gonna be really hard to end. Nobody likes to end. And in five minutes, iPad time will be over. And if you can't give it to me, I get it. I will take it from you if I don't want to do it.

[Hassan Minhaj]

I'm watching. I'm watching.

[Dr. Becky Kennedy]

You have five more minutes so you can go back and doing that.

[Hassan Minhaj]

So now five minutes have passed and.

[Dr. Becky Kennedy]

I would do this 30 seconds before.

[Hassan Minhaj]

I'm watching.

[Dr. Becky Kennedy]

I know. I wanna see what you're watching. Oh, I love that show too.

[Hassan Minhaj]

Yes. Don't take. Don't take it. I know you're about to take it away. Do not take it away from me.

[Dr. Becky Kennedy]

Sweetie, the scene's about to be over. And when it's over, you could choose to give it to me. Let's do one more.

[Hassan Minhaj]

We'll do one more.

[Dr. Becky Kennedy]

We're gonna do one more. I know you want one more. It's not an option. You can tell me which one for tomorrow and we can do it then.

[Hassan Minhaj]

Oh, my God, no.

[Dr. Becky Kennedy]

I know it stinks. Stinks when it comes. No.

[Hassan Minhaj]

Give. Dr. Becky Kennedy is a clinical psychologist, bestselling author, mother of three, and a living God to wine moms all across America.

[Dr. Becky Kennedy]

Our job isn't to make our kids happy. We're not optimizing for short term comfort. We're optimizing for long term resilience. Instead of telling them what not to do, tell them what you will do. You are not a monster.

[Hassan Minhaj]

Known as the millennial parent whisperer, Dr. Becky is widely seen as the leading voice in the gentle parenting movement, which emphasizes mindfulness, emotional regulation, and boundaries, aka what you baby boomers call namby pamby horseshit. Dr. Becky resists that gentle parenting label. She wants to train parents to be sturdy, not gentle. Apparently, that still means you're not allowed to hit your kids. So I sat down with Dr. Becky to talk more about the challenges of modern parenting. How to be sturdy. And the biggest question that I think we're all wondering, am I Hassan Minhaj, a shitty dad?

[Dr. Becky Kennedy]

Hurry right away.

[Hassan Minhaj]

No, delays are days.

[Dr. Becky Kennedy]

Make your daddy glad. You have had such a laugh.

[Hassan Minhaj]

Before the interview, let's take care of some business. This episode is brought to you by ZipRecruiter. Go to this exclusive web address to try ZipRecruiter for free. That's ZipRecruiter.com hustle ZipRecruiter. The smartest way to hire. So, Dr. Becky, you are known as the millennial parent whisperer. The reason why I'm sitting down with you is because I have two children, 6 and 4. My entire circle of friends is either parents or losers who can't commit. Come at me in the comment section. Really just bank. Just this is how I've been. Just really let it out. The one thing you can't do. This you mark Ass bitch. Now, all my friends complain that modern parenting is so much harder than what parenting used to be. But I wanted to ask you, is parenting now actually harder or are we overthinking it and making it harder?

[Dr. Becky Kennedy]

I actually think parenting is harder, but not because we're overthinking it. You know, kids are oriented by attachment. That's their primary evolutionary drive. Because they're helpless for so long, more than most animals, they cannot survive on their own for a very long time. So they need us. And so they're very attuned. What brings my parent close, what makes me safe with them? What leads to distance? And when am I not getting the love and attention boundaries all the stuff I need. Well, if you think about the world we live in now as parents, it's. It's hard to be as connected to your kid. We're connected to our phones. We're very, very busy. We're very distracted. I do not put myself above any of those things. That is very true for me.

[Hassan Minhaj]

Do you feel like just making that statement that it is harder? You realize you're gonna piss off a lot of boomers right now. Specifically my parents. They're gonna be so mad because they love this. They're just like, you're complaining now. You have no idea how hard it was for me. So what is your response to that?

[Dr. Becky Kennedy]

I would say it sounds like it was really hard for you too, and I believe you.

[Hassan Minhaj]

That's a great jiu jitsu move. That is brilliant. Do you remember back in the 80s, there was this huge panic about child abductions? Do you remember those PSAs? They're like milk cartons. Yeah, milk cartons. But there was also the. It's 10pm do you know where your children are? Where your children are? It's 10pm do you know where your children are?

[Dr. Becky Kennedy]

Do you know where your children are? Do you know where your children are?

[Hassan Minhaj]

The obsession was all about physical safety. Where is my son? Where is my daughter? They could be outside doing drugs or getting kidnapped. And then it slowly shifted to what I think presently is an obsession with emotional safety. I gotta protect my child's feelings and emotions 24 7. Which led to these ideas that I now hear about. Helicopter parenting, tiger parenting, intensive parenting. Are there any pros to this type of parenting?

[Dr. Becky Kennedy]

I mean, I don't know many people who'd say yes. I mean, I think you're right that we've overcorrected and the term emotional safety. We have to understand that with a lot more nuance.

[Hassan Minhaj]

Yes.

[Dr. Becky Kennedy]

Being safe in the world actually means that you're able to deal with the widest range of feelings. That's how you feel safe in the world as an adult. I'm not talking about feeling safe in the presence of violence. Obviously I'm not talking about that. But I'm uncomfortable, I'm disappointed, I'm frustrated, left out. I'm jealous, I'm sad. Being safe in the world means I am able to tolerate all those feelings. The more in childhood we narrow the range of emotions that our kids get to feel, the more we narrow the range of adult situations they feel competent in. That is the essence of fragility. Like, one of the things I always tell parents is our Kids cannot learn to tolerate feelings we don't tolerate in them because that's really what our kids are looking to us for. I wasn't invited to this birthday party. Let's take something like that. My kids come home. I wasn't invited. I was the only one. My kids really taking in a message from me is. Is my mom as scared of this situation as I am? Is she finding this as intolerable as I am? Is she calling all the other moms of the kids who aren't invited and making me, like, a better birthday party on the same day just so I don't have to feel sad? Or is my mom able to say something that stinks? And my kid's like, yeah, sounds like a really bad day. I'm really glad we're talking about it, which I always talk about this image of this feelings bench that, to me, is the essence of resilience. My kid is feeling a certain way, and I'm just willing to sit with them on it.

[Hassan Minhaj]

So it sounds like you are friends.

[Dr. Becky Kennedy]

With your children, my friends with my children.

[Hassan Minhaj]

Friends, meaning the conversation you're talking about right there. That's a combo that a friend would have. Hey, wow. That you got laid off from your job, that, oh, man, Facebook had layoffs. That sucks. That stinks. Let me sit in those emotions with you. Almost like we're peers.

[Dr. Becky Kennedy]

Yeah. I would actually say, though, what's different than a friend is your kid is not able to tolerate the emotion. That's why they're freaking out. And you're inherently being what I call a sturdy leader. Because you're not peers. You're able to tolerate the thing they're not able to tolerate, and because of that, they will build the ability.

[Hassan Minhaj]

Got it.

[Dr. Becky Kennedy]

To tolerate it.

[Hassan Minhaj]

Got it. What I'm hearing is you're not friends with your kids. And I respect it. I respect it so much. I just wanted you to say that I said it. You're oftentimes seen as part of a movement called gentle parenting. What is gentle parenting? And what do you think people get wrong about it?

[Dr. Becky Kennedy]

So I actually don't really know because I don't consider myself a gentle parent. I haven't done deep research in it. The word gentle, just like that, wouldn't be how I describe myself. I wouldn't say the opposite is true either. To me, the wor that embodies what we do at good inside is sturdy parenting, and to me, sturdiness. If you think about someone in your life that you associate, there's this duality to them they're something very firm. They have an edge to them. I always say you can locate them, like, ooh, there you are. I'm not gonna overpower you. And you feel like they like you still, and they're warm and they can have that duality. That is actually what we all want in our leaders. It's what we want in our CEOs and our managers. It's what we want on when there's a pilot during turbulence, and it's what kids want from us.

[Hassan Minhaj]

Okay. You know, I love doing this show. I get to interview all kinds of interesting guests and hang out with my amazing crew. Like Austin over here. Fun fact, he once went completely blind for three whole months. Hire experienced people who are excited about what they do. Like Austin. With ZipRecruiter, you see a candidate who'd be perfect for your job. ZipRecruiter's pre written invite to apply messages let you personally reach out to your favorite candidates. It's the hiring site employers prefer the Most based on G2. Go to this exclusive web address to try ZipRecruiter for free. It's ZipRecruiter.comhusn ZipRecruiter. The smartest way to hire. Don't use this. Don't use your trigger finger. You sneak around like this. So in your book, you say that we need to switch our parenting mindset from consequences to connection. How do you skip consequences without raising a psychopath?

[Dr. Becky Kennedy]

That's a good question. I think people misunderstand connection, or at least connection, as I think about it.

[Hassan Minhaj]

Yes.

[Dr. Becky Kennedy]

Connection's not like, oh, sweetie, you really want that truck and you're throwing sand at everyone. Like, that's. That would be bizarre behavior for me to witness, like, on a playground.

[Hassan Minhaj]

Sure, sure.

[Dr. Becky Kennedy]

Right. But the thing about consequences is, to me, it's a mindset of doing something to your kid versus, like, you're a good kid, you were having a hard time that came out in bad behavior. And, like, I want to help you, so I'm gonna do something for you. So let's take a situation where your kid's playing with blocks and they're like, throwing the blocks all over the room. Okay. And they have, like, a play date. Right.

[Hassan Minhaj]

Actually, let's make it more. Let's make it more specific. I do drop off. We are constantly, notoriously late.

[Dr. Becky Kennedy]

Okay.

[Hassan Minhaj]

My child has difficulty transitioning from hey, I finished breakfast, we're playing to I gotta put my shoes on, get my backpack, let's get in the car.

[Dr. Becky Kennedy]

Yep.

[Hassan Minhaj]

Here's what my request is as a hostage negotiator.

[Dr. Becky Kennedy]

Yeah.

[Hassan Minhaj]

I go to my man, I go, hey, what can I get for you? You need a helicopter, $10 million USD cash. Let me see what I can do. But I need you in that car. But what I need is, I need you to listen to me. I need you to listen to what I'm saying, and I need you to trust that following my plan will lead to success for all parties involved. How do I.

[Dr. Becky Kennedy]

But then if he doesn't, you're saying, then.

[Hassan Minhaj]

Yeah, when he doesn't, he's playing with Legos. And I go, these are gone. These don't exist anymore. Consider these gone. This has been relatively ineffective, but I also don't want him to live in a world where he thinks just there are no consequences. What does anything matter?

[Dr. Becky Kennedy]

What is the most generous interpretation, like the MGI of why your son has difficulty leaving the house?

[Hassan Minhaj]

I think once he's dropped into a task, he's dropped in, his world is this big.

[Dr. Becky Kennedy]

He can hyper focus on things and that's it.

[Hassan Minhaj]

And that's all he wants to do.

[Dr. Becky Kennedy]

Now I'm just gonna. I think that's a beautiful interpretation. There's not a right answer. I'm gonna add on a layer.

[Hassan Minhaj]

Yeah.

[Dr. Becky Kennedy]

He knows as soon as he gets ready to leave the house, it's like the beginning of having to say bye to you.

[Hassan Minhaj]

That's pretty generous that he's that into me. It's more of like, I gotta go to school and be on that bullshit. Which I get.

[Dr. Becky Kennedy]

I have to leave the house and leave my safe completely.

[Hassan Minhaj]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dr. Becky Kennedy]

And kids, again, are oriented by attachment. So I don't think it's that generous to say he wouldn't want to leave you or his wife. Like the kids generally.

[Hassan Minhaj]

He doesn't have a wife just yet, but sure. Oh, my wife. My wife. I got you, Dr. Beck.

[Dr. Becky Kennedy]

Okay. When you think about this most generous interpretation, this is where parents get it wrong. So we want to understand why our kids are doing their annoying behaviors not to make it okay, but to have the foundation to intervene effectively. So if we assume it's hard for him to start Legos and stop, then what I would say is, again, from the same team, this is something I'm doing for him, not to him. Even though the same thing might happen, I'm gonna take away the Legos. Is. Look, starting tomorrow, the Legos are gonna be away in the morning. And I know you're not gonna like that. Let me just explain it. It's like a really hard thing for me. To ask you to even have the option to do Legos knowing you're not gonna be able to complete them, it's like really unfair. Honestly, I couldn't even do that. And I know the mornings have been tough. You don't like when I yell. I don't like it either. Might take us a few days to adjust. And I'm gonna put away your other distracting toys also. They'll totally be here when you get home and I just think that's gonna help. Do you have any other ideas for how to make mornings smoother? Could I do something differently? And I bet he's gonna say something to you like, I don't know. Yeah. Could you be on your phone less? Or could you do this? Whatever it is, this is connection. It's not like anything goes. It's actually the way any adult solves something successfully in the workplace. They're like, hey, let's figure this out together. Let's actually be generous. Let's connect. And then that's how we solve. So even though you're taking away the Legos, it's not from a place of doing it to him. Cause you're mad at him. It's actually you're setting him up for success.

[Hassan Minhaj]

So let's get a little tactile.

[Dr. Becky Kennedy]

Okay.

[Hassan Minhaj]

Six year old daughter, four year old son.

[Dr. Becky Kennedy]

Yep.

[Hassan Minhaj]

Him getting clothes on is a. And I'll curse because there are no children here. Fucking nightmare. Sleeve one, sleeve two, head. I mean, this is Calculus BC for him. How do I help him help himself? Okay, so because he essentially acts the way Leonardo DiCaprio acted, you know, when he was drugged out of his mind and that once, remember when he was trying to get into Lamborghini and the Wolf of Wall Street. That's my four year old son trying to get clothes on. I'm like, put your right leg into the right hole.

[Dr. Becky Kennedy]

Yep.

[Hassan Minhaj]

Then do the next leg.

[Dr. Becky Kennedy]

And what does he do? Does he just melt?

[Hassan Minhaj]

Yeah, he just lays there like.

[Dr. Becky Kennedy]

He's like, I can't do it like that or something. Or gets mad at you sometimes.

[Hassan Minhaj]

He's non verbal. I'm like, yeah, are you on heroin?

[Dr. Becky Kennedy]

I'm gonna suggest a different intervention than that one.

[Hassan Minhaj]

But what is Dr. Raki? What is the way? How can I help him help himself?

[Dr. Becky Kennedy]

So the first thing, and I actually think this is just such an important thing to start with always is when our kids are driving us crazy. Me too. We go, what can I do? What can I do?

[Hassan Minhaj]

Yes.

[Dr. Becky Kennedy]

It's really important to slow down. I always try to think we have to understand before we intervene. And usually when we're frustrated with our kid, it's not an intervention we need. It's actually a different understanding we need. It's a different framework. So learning to do anything is actually very hard. We just forget that maybe learning to put your clothes on for your son would be the same thing as, I don't know how good you are at calculus, but I was like, it's simply this. You do this and this and this. You might be like, I have no idea what you're saying. And so learning is hard for us, too. There's a couple things that make learning easier. Number one, anticipating that learning something new is going to be hard makes it significantly easier to tolerate. Because how a feeling feels is a combination of the feeling itself and the story you tell yourself about the feeling. And so if you're able to tell yourself, this is the way this should feel, I'm feeling this exactly right. Anyone who learns to put on pants feels like this. It's going to feel like this, as opposed to this feels hard. And, oh, my goodness, other kids are able to do this. And my dad's kind of frustrated with me now. The whole feeling actually does make you melt, but not because the feeling in the situation, but because the story. And you and I, as parents, we are probably the biggest influencers on the story our kids tell about their feelings because they don't have a story to tell themselves. They hear the one that we say.

[Hassan Minhaj]

So just so I'm hearing this right, telling him, hey, putting on your pants is kind of hard.

[Dr. Becky Kennedy]

Yeah. And I would say, you know what I haven't said to you? Learning to put on your pants is actually. It's really hard. Like, no one your age figures that out right away. I don't think I've said that to you. And there's actually a lot of stages. Like, actually learning to just get one foot halfway into your pants is, like, amazing today. So that's the framing I would do then. The other thing that makes learning hard is shame. And shame is kind of the feeling like you're the only one or that there's something about you that's bad and wrong. And we associate, as humans, badness and wrongness and brokenness with kind of being alone in a situation. So actually, you know how to put your clothes on. But as your son is working on this, if you have something, I don't know, I'm making this up, it would be like, every time I cook, I burn the garlic. Really have to work on this and then I'd be like, cooking in front of my son. And I'd be like, oh, I did it again. I'm the worst. I cannot do this. And then I might talk myself back a little. Like, one second, Becky. Learning is hard. Everyone burns the garlic sometimes. Let me do one small step at a time. And what I'm really doing in a very deep psychological way is I'm saying to my son, like, learning looks like this for everyone. There's nothing wrong with you.

[Hassan Minhaj]

When I think about the way I was raised, shame and fear were very big in my childhood. Yeah, obviously, when I was young, I was yelled at. I was hit. It's fucked up, but I'm rich. You know what I mean? But at the same time, I flinch if someone comes in for a hug, right? I'll do better because I think they're gonna hit me. So that's complicated. I obviously don't hit my children, but I realized I grew up in a household of shame and fear. Right. Sometimes fear in some capacity, I think is a good thing, or having some form of shame is a good thing, I think both for adults and for children. Because I feel like the only people that live without shame or fear are American billionaires or politicians, and they're psychotic. How should one think about the ideas of shame and fear when it comes to their children?

[Dr. Becky Kennedy]

I don't know if we're talking about the abs. Is shame and fear, the lack of it really the core issue? Are we talking about entitlement? Are we talking about the loss of.

[Hassan Minhaj]

I'll be specific. So there is a sense of when. I mean, fear is. Let's do the most basic version. When I was a kid in school, if you don't do well in school, you won't be able to get into a great college. When I worked at Safeway, hey, if you don't come in on time, you're gonna get fired. There were these existential dreads as you get older and you're in college. Hey, if you have credit card debt, it's going to get worse later. There is this, like, there is some form of an existential fear of what is to come in the future. If you don't act or behave a certain way, is that bad?

[Dr. Becky Kennedy]

I guess I just think about that as, like, operating in the world. And I don't think you have to insert fear into a kid's life for them to develop the sense you're talking about. And that's the way I think so much of American parenthood goes where you do raise Your kids through fear. Whether it's fear of being hit, fear of being sent to your room, fear of having something random taken away from you. And then one of the reasons I think American adolescence has been so tough, traditionally an adolescence should be a time your kids should separate. But the reason kids can get so nasty, especially in America, is they're kind of like, I am not scared of you anymore. Like, I'm kind of bigger than you and you can't send me. And I don't care about your stickers anymore. And you missed out on like 14 years of forming a relationship with me so we don't have anything between us. And then the acting out, it seems like my kid went crazy. Actually. It's just kind of an extension of exactly what you're saying. Fear, like not working.

[Hassan Minhaj]

One of the things you talk about in Good Inside is the deeply feeling child. Describe that.

[Dr. Becky Kennedy]

These are kids on the outside who someone would say they go 0 to 60. They are labeled the following words all the time. Oppositional, defiant, dramatic, disproportionate reactions. And traditional parenting approaches don't help these kids. Because when kids are upset, we try to kind of like go through their front door. We're like, I'm here, I want to help. You're really upset because of the shame they have and the fear of being too much for you. It's actually too close. It's like too much. And they tend to say to their parents in these moments, get out, get out of my room, I hate you. And then totally well meaning parents are like, fine, I was just trying to help you anyway. You're so crazy or you're so dramatic.

[Hassan Minhaj]

Can you not? I don't have a teenager yet. But if they levy that against me, am I allowed to be like, motherfucker, I hate you too?

[Dr. Becky Kennedy]

No. Why not? If you want to be helpful, if you want to just vomit your own frustration, you could do that.

[Hassan Minhaj]

But I don't like this. This isn't fair. Just like you ain't shit. It's like, motherfucker, you ain't shit either. Well, I wiped your ass. We had black bean quesadillas last night at 6:42, you took a huge dookie. Who sprayed you down dried. You changed your undies, put it back on and then we ran it back. And then you had dairy so I'd have to wipe your ass again later. And I'm the piece of shit.

[Dr. Becky Kennedy]

But you're taking their words way too literally. Because what they're really saying to you, just like we're saying to people when we're really upset is, I'm really overwhelmed and I'm worrying you're not taking me seriously, and I'm scared.

[Hassan Minhaj]

Just say it that way then.

[Dr. Becky Kennedy]

They don't have the skills to say it that way. Just like you and I probably don't when we're upset.

[Hassan Minhaj]

So it articulated to I hate you.

[Dr. Becky Kennedy]

So whatever it comes out as. And then parents usually, you know, they take their word so literally. Deeply feeling kids in their most dysregulated moments. Their words are their fears, not their wishes. They really are, get out of my room. Is like, please don't get out of my room. Like, I hate you. Is like, I hate myself. And in some ways, when they say, get out of my room, I think they're kind of saying, like, I'm actually worried I'm gonna, like, poison you and I'm gonna be too much. So I actually love you so much and so much that, like, get out so I can protect you.

[Hassan Minhaj]

So when they say, get out of my room, you would advise, exit the room, slide a letter underneath and be.

[Dr. Becky Kennedy]

Like, you can do a bunch of things. You could do that. But actually, a lot of these moments come down to something we teach a lot. It's one of the biggest things we teach that people say this crazy. It changed things right away because they actually don't want you to leave. They'll protest and protest because they're so scared. And honestly, as a parent, it really comes down to, am I able to regulate myself in that moment? Because if we are, my second kid was this kid. I did everything the same with my first, and I was like, oh, my God, everything is different. And essentially, I know what she was really saying to me in this moment is like, please show me I'm not as toxic and bad as I worry I am. And there's nothing that speaks to a kid like your presence. Attachment is actually all about movement and distance. And so they notice, again, how close can you be to me and how far? Now, sitting in the room, we say, like, being like a potted plant. And essentially. And this is the sturdiness, not the gentleness, Listen, you don't have to, like, that I'm here, and you don't even have to look at me. I'm staying. I'm your parent. I love you. You don't scare me, and we're going to get through this.

[Hassan Minhaj]

Love that.

[Dr. Becky Kennedy]

That tone. Love that doctor Is basically saying, I am the edge for you. You cannot destroy me. And every freaking time, it ends with these kids crawling over to you and burying themselves into you. And little by little, they undo that shame. They feel like they can actually manage things because you can manage it. And it's the opposite of what almost everyone else says to do to these kids. You're just not being harsh enough. You're not consistent enough with the consequences. Which only confirms, see, I really am as bad and toxic as I worried I was. Which only leads to more of those behaviors.

[Hassan Minhaj]

Something that's very common and popular when I was growing up was incentive based learning, AKA sticker charts. I want to start you by showing something that I find to be helpful and useful. I struggle with motivation, so I use this sticker chart in our household that breaks down various responsibilities that I have to do. And then when I do something good, I get a sticker. When I do something bad, I get the poop emoji. So these are kind of the verticals of my life. Husband, father, son, comedian, citizen, Muslim, job creator. Now, if I get less than 10 poop emojis, I get a prize. If I get more than 10 poop emojis, my wife calls my parents. What are your thoughts on stickers as incentives for adults and or children?

[Dr. Becky Kennedy]

Okay, so the first thing I'd say is if you have a system in your house that is working for you and it doesn't really cause harm to anyone.

[Hassan Minhaj]

Sure.

[Dr. Becky Kennedy]

Like, I would just say that's amazing. If that's working for you, that's great. I have no interest in kind of saying, here's why that's wrong. And so if that helps you and it feels like it works between you and your wife and that motivates you, then I would just say, that's amazing. That works for you. Great. The issue I see is when it becomes the predominant thing parents do to try to get their kids to do anything, anything they don't want to do. And then the reason it usually comes to a discussion with me is it not only stops working, it completely backfires. Where a kid will say, when they're older, why do I have to pick up my towel? What are you going to give me? And parents are like, my kid is so entitled. But when they were younger and they were wiring their brain about how things work and what to expect in the world, to some degree, they were taught, if you do X, you will get why. And there are rewards associated that become your motivation for things. I really do believe kids have the ability like we are. We're kind of born with the ability to want to do things that are good. Like we want to have impact in the world. We really want to feel purpose. I think kids these days have a deep need for that, given how much of the world lives online. And it's just, you know, they can't really touch it. And so I would say to a family, like, what are the things you can do besides a sticker chart to build a kind of type of circuitry that's going to end up being more useful when your kid's older?

[Hassan Minhaj]

You also have a new book.

[Dr. Becky Kennedy]

I have a children's book.

[Hassan Minhaj]

That's my truck.

[Dr. Becky Kennedy]

Yes.

[Hassan Minhaj]

I'm gonna fly this in real quick. Now, obviously, I read your first book. I was able to crush this book in about three and a half hours. Then I quickly realized I don't think this is for adults. This is for children. Yes.

[Dr. Becky Kennedy]

It's probably for both.

[Hassan Minhaj]

Okay, tell me a little bit more about that's my trust. Yeah, let's break down what happens. I think it's really, really great. And there was a moment in it that I thought was quite wonderful where the boy hits his sister and he didn't mean to. And it processes that feeling. It goes through everything.

[Dr. Becky Kennedy]

Yeah.

[Hassan Minhaj]

Rage, violence, shame, reconciliation.

[Dr. Becky Kennedy]

Yeah.

[Hassan Minhaj]

What was your inspiration behind it? What do you hope to. For families and people to like, gain from the book and why'd you write it?

[Dr. Becky Kennedy]

Yeah. So I love children's books so much. I think they're such powerful tools. And I feel like for so many of us parents, I put myself in this category, I'll have a day, I'll be distracted, I'll be working. I'm frustrated and not like the best parent to my kid. And if I could have like the right book, that feels like deep in a way and connecting. Like, I have five minutes at the end of my kids day before they go to bed to read this book. And it doesn't take away everything that happened before, but I'm like, wow, that just gave me this moment that I kind of couldn't create the rest of the day. And I also think my favorite children's books are the ones where kids like, they just really see themselves. It's not perfect. It's messy, I think so many times I hear from parents like, wait, a kid's hitting. Is that gonna make my kid hit? No, your kid's hitting. If they see another kid who has bad behavior, that is what reduces shame. Shame makes people explosive. When you feel like you're the only one and everyone else has it together, you're going to behave worse. So through this story, you see a kid who sees his Sister who has his favorite truck. And one of my favorite parts of the story is it really brings to life this idea of most generous interpretation. Why is this kid hitting? Well, he's worried, like, is she gonna break my truck? Is she ever gonna give it back? Like, and what if she uses it the wrong way?

[Hassan Minhaj]

Because there's this big existential breakdown moment.

[Dr. Becky Kennedy]

Yeah. Like, I have to get it. This is like a threat state. And then it doesn't excuse the hip, but it's not like he, like, decides, no kid's like, I think, therefore, I am gonna walk over. It's just, again, the feeling was bigger than the skill. And then why I think it's for parents is it shows a way of intervening that's not permissive, but it's not scary, and it's sturdy. And I think it's this alternative. As parents, you're like, oh, maybe I could do that. And then you see what happens after. And it's not perfect, but our lives with our kids aren't. And so I just think it could be a connecting moment, what I'm gonna do when the book comes out. I love modeling how I read. Like, I picture kind of Paige pausing and saying to my kid, like, you know, when I was 4, like, I hit someone. I did. And usually it could be like, you did. You're like, yeah, it was kind of like Charlie. And it just can be this, like, oh, my goodness. I'm like you, and you're like me. And again, then your kid goes to bed, and you're like, I feel like a million bucks.

[Hassan Minhaj]

Are you ready for our final score?

[Dr. Becky Kennedy]

I'm ready.

[Hassan Minhaj]

How do I force my kid to eat vegetables?

[Dr. Becky Kennedy]

You cannot force. Your job is to offer. Their job is to decide whether and how much.

[Hassan Minhaj]

Okay. Is it okay to bribe my kids.

[Dr. Becky Kennedy]

With candy once in a while? One really nest. Money doesn't seem like an economic decision, but if there's something that has to happen and there's no danger and it's once in a while, sure.

[Hassan Minhaj]

Is it okay to check my phone while playing with my kid? If it's something important, like a work emergency and. Or an incredible highlight on House of Highlights.

[Dr. Becky Kennedy]

I hear that I would name it. Hey, I need one moment with my phone. It's really only one moment. I know that's annoying. And I'll be right back.

[Hassan Minhaj]

Okay. So what if my son's like, what do you mean, Kyrie's cooking? What does that even mean? And I go, he's cooking, man.

[Dr. Becky Kennedy]

I would explain it like, he's having an Amazing game. And I had to see it.

[Hassan Minhaj]

Got it. If a child bullies my child, can I threaten their parents?

[Dr. Becky Kennedy]

I would not do that.

[Hassan Minhaj]

Okay. Not the children.

[Dr. Becky Kennedy]

No. Next question.

[Hassan Minhaj]

All right. When should I tell my kids the truth about Santa Claus?

[Dr. Becky Kennedy]

This is much more nuanced to answer in a speed lounge, because what kids hold onto is actually play and fantasy, and it's one of the only areas for kids that parents actually allow themselves to enter into it.

[Hassan Minhaj]

So you're okay with the big lie, AKA the Santa Claus movie?

[Dr. Becky Kennedy]

I would say I would allow your kid to enjoy the play. Play that involves you, and if they ever ask you directly, they're probably ready for an answer.

[Hassan Minhaj]

Got it. So at 17, if they go, is Santa Claus real?

[Dr. Becky Kennedy]

You'd be like, I'd be concerned if your kid waited to 17.

[Hassan Minhaj]

Now, as you might have heard, I'm a famous, unrepentant liar. So what should I do when I catch my kids in a lie?

[Dr. Becky Kennedy]

What you should say is, hey, there's something that's getting in your way of telling me the truth. So let's start again. Let me know what's going on.

[Hassan Minhaj]

Copy that. How do I explain the concept of death to my children? And if you could keep it to 10 seconds or less, that would be great.

[Dr. Becky Kennedy]

Death is when the body stops working.

[Hassan Minhaj]

Perfect. Ladies and gentlemen, Dr. Becky. Thank you so much. That was a great response. Death is when the body stops working. Hold still. I promise this won't hurt. Oh, hey there. I was just making some delightful small talk with my employee, Austin. For doing what you love to do, there is nothing better than being surrounded by people who love it as much as you. And if you own your own business, like me, you want to hire employees who love what they do too, to boost the overall success of your business, plus make it a pretty great place to work. But how do you find passionate employees who are a good fit for all of your roles? ZipRecruiter. And right now, you can try it for [e-mail] Husn ZipRecruiter's powerful matching technology finds top talent fast and starts showing your job to qualified candidates immediately. It saves you time and money that you can't afford to waste. So you can hire experienced people right now who are excited about what they do with ZipRecruiter. Four out of five employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate within the first stay. See for yourself. Go to this exclusive web address to try ZipRecruiter for free. It's ZipRecruiter.com Huston again, that's ZipRecruiter.com huston ZipRecruiter is the smartest way to hire. Oh shit.