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- [00:01]
Nicole Wallace
Hi, everyone, it's Nicole Wallace from msnbc. Listen to my new podcast called the Best People. I get to speak to some of.
- [00:08]
Cynthia Nixon
The smartest, funniest and wisest people I have ever encountered. People like Cara Swisher, Rachel Maddow, Doc Rivers, Jason Bateman, Jeff Daniels, and Sarah Jessica Parker. They'll often say, hey, Kerry, you know, they'll call me Carrie.
- [00:21]
Nicole Wallace
And that's all right, too. The Best People with Nicole Wallace. New episodes drop Mondays. Listen now, wherever you get your podcasts.
- [00:32]
Cynthia Nixon
Lemonada.
- [00:36]
Nicole Wallace
Is it true that you did a thing called Semester at Sea?
- [00:39]
Cynthia Nixon
I did. I took French in high school and I took German in college.
- [00:44]
Nicole Wallace
Yeah.
- [00:44]
Cynthia Nixon
Because my grandfather, you might remember, was German. Adolf. Right.
- [00:49]
Nicole Wallace
It's just a wild thing. Every time you say that. It is, it is never not shocked.
- [00:54]
Cynthia Nixon
Well, it's interesting because he was one of three boys and all the others Americanized their names and he did not.
- [01:00]
Nicole Wallace
It would be like someone being like, you know, my uncle Pol Pot, they're like, really, you know, all right. Just, you know, my great grandfather, Genghis.
- [01:09]
Cynthia Nixon
Yeah, yeah.
- [01:10]
Nicole Wallace
It just evokes a lot.
- [01:11]
Cynthia Nixon
Yeah.
- [01:11]
Nicole Wallace
Cynthia Nixon has been killing it since she was a teenager. Just for perspective, in a single year, 1984, she was in two Mike Nichols plays on Broadway and an Oscar winning film, Amadeus. By that age, my accomplishments in life amounted to one, working at Office Max and two, virginity. Of course, Cynthia is mostly famous for Sex and the City, for which she won an Emmy that was presented to her by Donald Trump. And I guess that moment radicalized her because after his election in 2016, she ran for governor of New York against Andrew Cuomo, fighting, who then won and then resigned in disgraced, and now is running again but for New York City mayor. So I sat down with Cynthia Nixon to talk about politics in her two hit HBO shows. And just like that, in the Gilded Age. And of course, there will be a lot of dunking on Andrew Cuomo. Round two fight. So you grow up and you kind of come of age as a performer in New York City.
- [02:14]
Cynthia Nixon
Yes.
- [02:15]
Nicole Wallace
During a very particular decade, the 70s. And over the course of your career, you had many iconic on screen villains, but you more recently had an on screen real life villain when you ran against Governor Cuomo.
- [02:30]
Cynthia Nixon
Governor Cuomo, yes.
- [02:32]
Nicole Wallace
Who resigned in 2021 in disgrace. And then now, I guess, is running again in disgrace.
- [02:40]
Cynthia Nixon
Yes. Right.
- [02:41]
Nicole Wallace
Or is it just New year, new me, 2025? Like, what's happening there?
- [02:47]
Cynthia Nixon
What's happening? I think. Well, you know, I think if, if you did the things that Andrew Cuomo did, and you have been forced to resign. You're living in the political wilderness, and so you let a few years pass and you try and get back in the game, which is what I think is happening. And you obviously have a lot of name recognition and you still have a lot of deep pocketed donors and allies.
- [03:21]
Nicole Wallace
You know, what's wild is as of this interview, he's leading in the polls right now.
- [03:25]
Cynthia Nixon
Well, yes, he's. That doesn't surprise me at all because, you know, until you get quite near to an election, when you ask people, you know, who you're going to vote for, it's really pretty much just a name check question. It's really all about, you know, name recognition at this point. And I think the thing about Andrew Cuomo is he did have to resign a few years back, and so I think some of what he did has faded from memory. But I think that when you look at these polls. Yeah. That at first they check him off and then you remind people what he did. You remind them about the nursing home deaths. You remind them about the corruption, the incredible corruption of his, you know, his closest aides who were forced to not only resign, but some went to jail.
- [04:16]
Nicole Wallace
Right.
- [04:17]
Cynthia Nixon
And the sexual harassment of 13 women. I mean, those are just the women that were brave enough to come forward. Right. And that, you know, this is not a guy who made a couple of mistakes and apologized and has turned over a new leaf. This is a guy who has. Has, I think, at this point. So when he got accused, when these women came forward and reported what he had done, he sued the city, the state of New York. And so New York taxpayers are still paying his legal fees for going after these women and hounding them into the ground. So that we've already paid, I think, more than $25 million and we're not done yet. And he has. The harassment that happened while he was in office was a really terrible thing. And the harassment that he still continues to do to these women to try and make them go away to the point of, like, he tried to subpoena one woman, her gynecological records. I mean, like the level of, you know, Lindsay Boylan, who was the very first person to step forward and say what was happening. Her own legal bills at this point are a million and a half dollars. So this is not a guy who has changed at all and has in no way acknowledged what he's done. And this is a guy who has not really been prosecuted because he resigned before he could. But, you know, he was hauled into Washington, I think, last month. So if part of the problem we have with Eric Adams is that he's sold us down the river to Trump in exchange for dropping investigations. Well, apart from everything else, it seems to me we have exactly that with Andrew Cuomo, a guy who is incredibly vulnerable to prosecution and might, if he was elected, might just make whatever deal he could to save his own skin. And New Yorkers be damned.
- [06:14]
Nicole Wallace
Yeah. I mean, you have lived in New York longer than me, so I think you understand the pulse of the city and the New York population, I would even say just the surrounding area perhaps better than me. You said that your political awakening happened after Trump's first win in 2016, and.
- [06:36]
Cynthia Nixon
Well. Right. I mean, political awakening to the point of, like, running for office. I can't just have opinions anymore. I have to do something.
- [06:44]
Nicole Wallace
And I was wondering, when you look at what's happening both domestically, like here in the state, in the city, and nationally, what's happening with the presidency. Some people in the media have called it this man lash moment. I've seen it. I grew up in Davis, California, Northern California, which is near Sacramento. I see it more as, like a Kirkland signature dad moment back. Like, it's those. It's the Tommy Bahama dads backlash. How do you see it? I'm trying to see it from a perspective of, oh, like, these are the kids that I grew up with and these are their parents. And I'm trying to make sense of it that way. Highway.
- [07:26]
Cynthia Nixon
I mean, I do think there is a lot of misogyny that has come rushing in. You know, we certainly saw it with Hillary, we certainly saw it with Kamala. But I think if you step just a tiny bit back, it seems to me that the main thing that is happening and the main thing that has been happening for a long time is income inequality, and that's it. Right. And I think so many men who have veered right, a lot of it has to do with the fact of their inability to make a living and to provide for their families and to feel like there's some kind of a future for them or feel like there's some kind of a future for their children or their grandchildren. And I think, you know, look, you know, misogyny and racism and homophobia, these things are. These are big currents that run through our world. And I'm not. I don't mean to at all diminish them, but I think if you look at what happened, the Democrats have just not provided a very articulate or compelling alternative to Trump because they are so in the pocket of their donors.
- [08:57]
Nicole Wallace
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- [11:52]
Cynthia Nixon
I mean, I'm not sure what to say about it. I feel like on the one hand, you know, I feel like actors and sports figures and people like that are constantly being asked their opinion about politics.
- [12:08]
Nicole Wallace
Sure. Look over my shoulder right here. Muhammad Ali, right? Yeah.
- [12:13]
Cynthia Nixon
So, yeah. I mean, yes, certainly there are people in my world who have sometimes said, you know, do you have to be so vocal on this? Right. But I feel like, you know, that's 100% who I am and that's who I always been and I'm my parents, child and I think my parents, Neither of whom are still living, but I think my parents would, you know, be very disappointed in me if I didn't say what I thought about political goings on because somebody might not give me an endorsement or something.
- [12:55]
Nicole Wallace
Well, what's interesting is I think people also don't add, we're a reflection of the times. Artists, musicians, poets, films. These are a reflection of what is happening in the current cultural zeitgeist. And to pretend that we don't have thoughts or opinions on it outside of what you see on a call sheet or a script, I think is a little.
- [13:16]
Cynthia Nixon
It's very interesting. I was just talking to this woman, French actress named Judith Godresh, who is sort of the person who has like broken open MeToo in France. She has a film called Moi Aussi and I won't talk about her for a long time, but it was so interesting in. I interviewed her and she and I had some private conversations too. And she said that we don't understand what it's like. Just in France, for example, it's that people do not speak about politics. She said, every once in a while the most famous person in France will like say something about Macron. We need to know, or we need to protect the earth, you know, recycle. But that's kind of, you know.
- [13:59]
Nicole Wallace
Oh, got it. So it's like a vague.
- [14:01]
Cynthia Nixon
It's sort of a It's so softball and, you know, so. So I was sort of stunned by that. And I said, but, you know, I feel like your revolution is so much more immediate to you guys than our revolution, I feel like. And she said, yes, but the point is, before either of our revolutions, we were an aristocracy. And we still have that. And there is still like, don't say anything bad about the king. Oh, interesting kind of thing. And you know, we have a lot of troubles. At least we don't have that yet.
- [14:37]
Nicole Wallace
Yeah, yeah. I mean, we'll see yet. And maybe we kind of do. Help me unpack this. I was thinking about this and I was like, oh, I gotta ask Cynthia this. So you obviously ran for governor in 2018, and so you got to see a little bit of how that political machine works. Fundraising, campaigning, all of that. But there's also this super interesting conversation around celebrities running for president. And it's a very polarizing question.
- [15:03]
Cynthia Nixon
Right.
- [15:03]
Nicole Wallace
So some people are like, the Rock should run for president. It's like, no, George Clooney should run for president, Oprah for president.
- [15:09]
Cynthia Nixon
And, you know, I don't really want to see any of those people as president. But I tell you, I would, you know, give them one of my toes right now if one of those people were president versus the President we had.
- [15:20]
Nicole Wallace
Yeah, it's crazy.
- [15:21]
Cynthia Nixon
Look, I'm not a person who wants to see more actors or sports figures in office. Like, I don't particularly think that's an especially good thing.
- [15:32]
Nicole Wallace
Yeah. And I'll qualify. Right? Reagan, obviously.
- [15:35]
Cynthia Nixon
Well, but right. But I also want to say it's not, it's not an especially bad thing. It's like, I don't. I obviously was not a fan of Ronald Reagan.
- [15:44]
Nicole Wallace
Yeah.
- [15:47]
Cynthia Nixon
But the things that I didn't like about Reagan's presidency had nothing to do with him being an actor. Right, right, right, right.
- [15:58]
Nicole Wallace
Sure.
- [15:59]
Cynthia Nixon
And you know, and I, I played Nancy Reagan in a TV movie a few years ago and I read a lot of stuff about the Reagan's, but also by the Reagan's.
- [16:12]
Nicole Wallace
Oh, interesting.
- [16:13]
Cynthia Nixon
And there was one quote from Ronald Reagan who said, you know, people ask me, what kind of a, what kind of a training is that for being a governor or being a, you know, be an actor? And he said, I don't understand how anybody who wasn't an actor first could even do this job. By which I think he meant more campaigning than. Right. But it was like, well, first of all, people know who you are. Right?
- [16:44]
Nicole Wallace
Yeah.
- [16:45]
Cynthia Nixon
People are interested. People already presumably like you. They're disposed toward you. You're used to being interacting with the public talk.
- [16:53]
Nicole Wallace
Totally.
- [16:54]
Cynthia Nixon
You're used to being in front of people and interacting with strangers. And you're used to somebody handing you a piece of paper and reading with no notice at all and going out there and making it sound like. These are your extemporaneous thoughts.
- [17:08]
Nicole Wallace
Yeah. How good is your cold read? But it looks impromptu.
- [17:11]
Cynthia Nixon
Right. And so I think in terms of why I ran for governor, I ran for governor because I didn't want Andrew Cuomo to be our governor. And I also didn't want Andrew Cuomo to get away with the stuff that he was getting away with. And because he is so famously vindictive, no one in New York with any political standing would run against him. Because as soon as you do that against Andrew Cuomo, if you're in politics, your career is over before you. As soon as basically, you open your mouth.
- [17:55]
Nicole Wallace
I was thinking that.
- [17:57]
Cynthia Nixon
And so also, I'll just say that they had been trying to get me to run against him for quite a while, for a number of election cycles before I actually did. And then four years before I ran, Zephyr Teachout, who is a law professor from Fordham, a brilliant, articulate woman who nobody would take her candidacy seriously because nobody had ever heard of her. They wouldn't even put her on television. And yet she got a third of the vote.
- [18:22]
Nicole Wallace
Oh, interesting.
- [18:23]
Cynthia Nixon
And I thought, wow, Zephyr, you know, they were trying to get me to run. I didn't. Zephyr did. And Zephyr is so brave. And if Zephyr can do that and they won't even put her on television, I can do that or better, because they're gonna put me on television.
- [18:40]
Nicole Wallace
Oh, that's really fascinating. Yeah.
- [18:42]
Cynthia Nixon
That I had two advantages. I'm not in politics, so he can't end my career.
- [18:46]
Nicole Wallace
Right.
- [18:47]
Cynthia Nixon
And people are interested in me because they've heard of me and they are disposed to like me.
- [18:53]
Nicole Wallace
But what I thought was really interesting is you ran as a very progressive, almost like Bernie AOC style.
- [18:59]
Cynthia Nixon
Yes, definitely.
- [19:01]
Nicole Wallace
And then you went back to Hollywood. Was that scary?
- [19:09]
Cynthia Nixon
Well, so I, you know, I ran, and it took maybe nine months out of my life. Right. And then I think I was. So the. The primary that I lost was in September.
- [19:28]
Nicole Wallace
Yeah.
- [19:29]
Cynthia Nixon
And then I was. I think I was Christmas shopping. I think I was at, like, Banana Republic. I want to say Christmas shopping. So it must have been November, December, whatever. And I got a call from Ryan Murphy, who I didn't know at all, talking up this project that he was his next project that he wanted me to be a part of. And it was like Sarah Paulson and Sharon Stone and Judy Davis and like Sophie Okonedo and like, I mean, so many amazing people in it. And the part seemed juicy. It was Sarah Paulson's love interest.
- [20:05]
Nicole Wallace
Yeah. Always seems juicy. Yeah.
- [20:06]
Cynthia Nixon
And it was like a prequel to One Flew over the Cuckoo's Nest. I mean, it was like so many fascinating. It was a period piece. It was a queer period piece.
- [20:18]
Nicole Wallace
I wish I got a call like that. I know I was at the Old Navy Outlet.
- [20:21]
Cynthia Nixon
Like I'm at Banana Republic. I was like, aha.
- [20:23]
Nicole Wallace
And I was just Christmas shopping for socks.
- [20:25]
Cynthia Nixon
They were there. I was right. And so, I mean, it was like it would. You know, I try not to work outside of New York City and this shot in California and it's one of the few things I've done that was in California. Cause I tried to stay at home because I got kids and stuff. But it was, it was a job that I probably would have taken even if I hadn't just not worked in a year or whatever. Apart from it being an amazing experience, it was just such a lifeline that Ryan Murphy threw to me because it was like, what's gonna happen next? And it was interesting too because he had me playing like a woman who was like the power. I wouldn't say the power behind the throne, but she was like the press agent of the governor of California who was corrupt. And it was like. So it was like a person in politics, which is, I think probably why he thought of me for it or one of the reasons he thought of me for it.
- [21:19]
Nicole Wallace
Well, I mean, I gotta give you your flowers. Cause you've gone really hard in the pain. You tweeted in 2018, ICE is a terrorist organization.
- [21:26]
Cynthia Nixon
Just ICE should be abolished. Yeah.
- [21:28]
Nicole Wallace
Yeah. And did you ever feel fear of, hey, how will this resonate with my other colleagues in showbiz? Will this be alienating? Will I work again? And especially after diving into being a front facing politician who's trying to run for office. Did you ever feel that way? Or were you like, no, this is what I believe and this is what it is.
- [21:51]
Cynthia Nixon
Yeah. I mean, I love the Taylor Swift documentary Miss Americana.
- [21:58]
Nicole Wallace
Yeah.
- [21:59]
Cynthia Nixon
And I feel like it's so.
- [22:01]
Nicole Wallace
So the scene. Paint the scene. The scene. She's like in a green room.
- [22:04]
Cynthia Nixon
The scene. Right. She's right. And she really wants to speak out about the presidential and who she's supporting. And her people are very like, don't do it. Don't do it, don't do it, don't do it. And, like, the memory and the example of the Dixie Chicks is so, like, enormous.
- [22:25]
Nicole Wallace
Wild. Isn't such a wild thing about when people like, do you remember the Dixie Chicks? They lost everything.
- [22:30]
Cynthia Nixon
And it's true.
- [22:31]
Nicole Wallace
They were just.
- [22:32]
Cynthia Nixon
It's true.
- [22:32]
Nicole Wallace
But the hot take.
- [22:34]
Cynthia Nixon
But I want to say against the Iraq war, first of all, my, my. I have, you know, Sex in the City and now. And just like that. These are very broadly appealing shows, but it's not Taylor Swift. Right. And also, don't hold yourself, I think.
- [22:49]
Nicole Wallace
But. No, but.
- [22:49]
Cynthia Nixon
But I mean, also, Taylor, you know, started out as a country performer.
- [22:53]
Nicole Wallace
Right.
- [22:54]
Cynthia Nixon
So there's, you know, it's a lot more of red America as opposed to blue America or purple America or whatever. Yeah, but in terms of, like, my colleagues. No, I mean, you know, everybody always knew who I was. Do you know what I mean? I mean, it was like. I think people were a lot more afraid of my. When I fell in love with my wife, you know, coming out as being with a woman. As opposed to, like, abolish ice.
- [23:28]
Nicole Wallace
Right.
- [23:28]
Cynthia Nixon
No, but, you know, I don't feel like there are a lot of people that I interact with in show business who feel like ICE is, like, really dear to the person.
- [23:37]
Nicole Wallace
Oh, they're down with ice. Got it. Okay. Understood. I want to jump to the Gilded Age. Okay.
- [23:43]
Cynthia Nixon
All we both want is your happiness. You may disagree with us, but that is all we want.
- [23:50]
Nicole Wallace
Here's a really interesting connection point. Your governor's campaign obviously focused on inequality and economic inequality. The Gilded Age absolutely focuses on economic inequality. Do you think that show is a commentary on the current Gilded Age that we're living through right now?
- [24:07]
Cynthia Nixon
I mean, look, I think the Gilded Age in The, you know, 1880s was a fascinating period in so many ways. So much social upheaval, so much innovation, so much wealth disparity. You know, so much immigration was such a thing. Women's rights, civil rights. Like, there's so much going on. But I think one of the things that makes it so compelling is how much it is just like our moment. Now.
- [24:36]
Nicole Wallace
Do you want to hear a 2025 statistic factoid?
- [24:40]
Cynthia Nixon
Okay.
- [24:40]
Nicole Wallace
All right. To the folks that are watching and listening, this is a fun factoid. Check this out. And it's actually. This is not cool. Check this out, guys. The wealth of the richest five Americans in the United States of America right now is about $1 trillion. Half of Americans have less than $500 in their bank account.
- [25:03]
Cynthia Nixon
You. Yeah, yeah.
- [25:05]
Nicole Wallace
So talk about wild economic inequality and disparity. And I think I wanted to ask you, as someone who obviously researched it and you're great on the show, how do the ultra rich, the oligarchs of today compare to the Gilded Age robber barons of the 1880s?
- [25:26]
Cynthia Nixon
Let's be really clear that the Gilded Age robber barons were not nice people. Right. These are bad guys.
- [25:33]
Nicole Wallace
Yeah, we have this on the record. These are like not good people.
- [25:36]
Cynthia Nixon
These are like.
- [25:38]
Nicole Wallace
Say it.
- [25:39]
Cynthia Nixon
They want to break your strike and they are happy to beat you up and shoot you and like starve your children.
- [25:45]
Nicole Wallace
Don't say that about Jeff Bezos.
- [25:48]
Cynthia Nixon
These are not nice people. Right. These are people who are really looking to maximize their profits and without any regard for, for the well being of their workers. But I will say one thing is that they built a lot of stuff for the public good. Now maybe they just did it because they were looking so bad. Like the Nobel Peace Prize is founded by a guy who sold munitions and he felt bad about it. So he wanted to be known for peace and Pulitzer, you know, the Pulitzer Prize, like the king of yellow journalism. Right. So then his name would have a grandeur to it.
- [26:35]
Nicole Wallace
Yes.
- [26:35]
Cynthia Nixon
But if you think about, you know, Carnegie hall and you know, the museums.
- [26:39]
Nicole Wallace
Vanderbilts built, Grand Central Station.
- [26:41]
Cynthia Nixon
Exactly. Like, like there are so many museums and libraries and beautiful, you know, things for the public to enjoyed that had their, you know. But Trump doesn't even build that. He just builds condos that he can get rich off of.
- [26:57]
Nicole Wallace
You're a public library down here. You know, the Astors and the Carnegie's helped build that.
- [27:01]
Cynthia Nixon
Exactly. And so I will say that I have a friend who for many years ran ACT in San Francisco, Right. Which is the American Conservatory Theater. Like a great innovative theater of wonderful quality and longstanding. Right. And she just talked about kind of the transformation of San Francisco with the tech boom. Because the tech boom is like the industrial revolution in the 19th century. Right. Which is what caused the robber barons. And the tech boom is a lot of what our current billionaires and multimillionaires are coming from. Right. And that she said the old money in the city when she. Because she ran it for like 25 years or something. And she used to go around to rich people and say, please donate to the theater. You know, please endow, please include us in your will or please give us $50,000 a year or whatever it would be. And she says with these guys, like, forget it. They have no, you know, they're in these palatial offices with ping Pong tables and snacks and, you know, and they take like buses to work that are just for the employees of those big corporations, which I won't bother to name. And they're barely existing on the streets of San Francisco. Like, their lunch is brought. They don't go to a restaurant. There is no sense of being a part of society and that you are. And that you are an incredibly wealthy pillar of society. You employ all these people, you're in this community. It's like, no, I'm in the Google offices or whatever. And there's no sense of let's endow the symphony. Let's, you know, create a wonderful thing for, for citizens, your workers and other people who just live near your business to enjoy.
- [29:01]
Nicole Wallace
And let me just say this about Gilded Age people. Throughout history, it was all built during horrible circumstances. The Taj Mahal, the pyramids, like, yeah, totally. But at least they made great Instagram photos. Okay, Like, a lot of people were hurt and perhaps died making this, but man, oh man, do these look good in grid.
- [29:22]
Cynthia Nixon
And let's. And let's also be clear. Like, I mean, so part of the thing of the Gilded Age, our TV show, right, is that there are people like me and Christine Baranski who are old money, who don't live ostentatiously. I mean, look, our house is really nice, don't get me wrong. And then there are these people, the Russells, that come in with money to burn. And so, I mean, I think that that's part of the, the old rich people. It was part of their class that they did not live in these palatial, gorgeous places that they were kind of buttoned down. So it was sort of their way of getting in.
- [30:02]
Nicole Wallace
In the season two arc, for the folks who haven't seen it, is there's this whole arc about the Metropolitan island opera of how it's being built and all that stuff. Right now. I don't have the answer here. Am I being too generous? Because here we are in New York City and you know, the Sackler family famously also put their name on arts buildings and they did try to kind of Gilded Age it up a little bit while they were doing fucked up shit. And so I don't have an answer to that. I was like, have they always been messed up? Like, yeah. Or were they different? It's hard. There's not a clear cut answer that I have. I will say to the oligarchs, you're talking about the doomsday bunker in Hawaii, folks. They really don't want to see themselves As a part of society, like, you're right.
- [30:47]
Cynthia Nixon
I think we've lost, particularly among wealthy people, we've lost so much a sense of the common good. It's like the idea that, like, I mean, I feel like Trump and his friends are just really trying to privatize everything and, you know, destroy the Department of Education. And there is this sense of like, why should we, you know, even repair the roads? We're just coptering in and out. We don't care about the roads. We don't care about clean water. There's always bottled water. It's like the bottled water is coming from somewhere.
- [31:23]
Nicole Wallace
Yeah, well, and also, there is this thing where I feel this, which is what is the social contract? And the social contract to me is clean air, clean water. I want to be able to go to the drinking fountain.
- [31:35]
Cynthia Nixon
Well, and hopefully more than that. Hopefully. You know, health care.
- [31:38]
Nicole Wallace
Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [31:39]
Cynthia Nixon
Hopefully a place to live.
- [31:40]
Nicole Wallace
Yeah.
- [31:40]
Cynthia Nixon
You know, but I think. I mean, I have to say, you know, one's. One's sense of history often starts with one's own life. Right. But to me, the great dividing line was Reagan, and he was just the person who said the opposite of Kennedy's aspect. Not what your country can do for you. Ask what you can do for your country. And I feel like Reagan just turned that on its head. It's like, why are your taxes so high? You know, don't you want to keep the money and spend it on what you want rather than, you know, the common good?
- [32:12]
Nicole Wallace
I mean, I think you flipped it to, don't ask me any questions.
- [32:14]
Cynthia Nixon
Like, that's not your concern. Government is not the solution. Government is the problem.
- [32:17]
Nicole Wallace
Philosophical question, Cynthia. Why do we love period pieces so much as a society? Why is historical trauma so titillating to us? There is something about old timey pain and suffering that we're totally fine with, but we cannot process modern pain and suffering. Like, why do we like that?
- [32:41]
Cynthia Nixon
Well, I mean, I think the thing about pain and suffering that is happening right now is particularly painful and scary, first of all, because we're in it and we're feeling it right now.
- [32:57]
Nicole Wallace
Yeah.
- [32:58]
Cynthia Nixon
But also, we don't know what the outcome is. We don't know if we're gonna survive or in what shape we're gonna survive or what things are gonna disappear, what things are gonna fall by the wayside. You know, what kind of global warming. What's gonna happen with that? Doesn't look so good. The state of our democracy. What's gonna happen with that? Doesn't look so good. Whereas even when you see, you know, like, we just watched Napoleon the other night. Do you know what I mean? Like, horrible things happened and enormous things.
- [33:35]
Nicole Wallace
Yeah, totally. But, like, vintage pain.
- [33:38]
Cynthia Nixon
But the world didn't end.
- [33:39]
Nicole Wallace
My theory is that when pain and suffering happens in the past, we are not complicit in the present.
- [33:48]
Cynthia Nixon
Yeah. I mean, you know, that's the thing about, like.
- [33:50]
Nicole Wallace
HBO's not gonna greenlight a show about Sudan now.
- [33:54]
Cynthia Nixon
Yeah.
- [33:54]
Nicole Wallace
You know, it's. It's too much. There's. I think the viewer would be like, am I a part of this? What. What role does the US Government play? How. Wait, I didn't vote, but should I have? There is this, like, present moment that we have to reconcile with ourselves, our place and time in history.
- [34:13]
Cynthia Nixon
Yeah. But also, it's like. Like, I just. I just watched Invictus. Right. Which is about the. The. The South African soccer team and after Nelson Mandela is elected and sort of the uneasiness that white people feel and, like, what's gonna happen to us now?
- [34:30]
Nicole Wallace
Yeah.
- [34:33]
Cynthia Nixon
And I mean, the thing about. Usually the. You know, the movies that are about, like, a very difficult, painful time, we usually focus on the heroes. Right?
- [34:45]
Nicole Wallace
Yeah.
- [34:46]
Cynthia Nixon
And we. We can sort of squint and say, I would have been one of those. Right. Whereas when you focus on something that's happening right now, it's like, what am I doing? I'm not doing anything about it. And. And I.
- [35:04]
Nicole Wallace
And where am I in the story? Am I the hero and where am I?
- [35:07]
Cynthia Nixon
Or am I the person who stands by and is just not doing anything.
- [35:18]
Nicole Wallace
Too real? I want to pivot.
- [35:20]
Cynthia Nixon
Yes.
- [35:21]
Nicole Wallace
Okay.
- [35:21]
Cynthia Nixon
Yes.
- [35:22]
Nicole Wallace
To the new season of. And just like that.
- [35:24]
Cynthia Nixon
Yes. Yes. Yes.
- [35:25]
Nicole Wallace
Full disclosure, Cynthia. I have only seen a couple of episodes of Sex and the City.
- [35:30]
Cynthia Nixon
Oh, really?
- [35:30]
Nicole Wallace
Yeah. Like, when it's a rerun on tnt.
- [35:32]
Cynthia Nixon
Very random ones.
- [35:33]
Nicole Wallace
Yeah. If I'm, you know, not to brag. If I'm at a Hotel in St. Louis and it's on TNT and I'm getting ready for bed, is that.
- [35:40]
Cynthia Nixon
That's bragging. Yeah, I like that.
- [35:41]
Nicole Wallace
Yeah. If I'm at a Hampton Inn and I turn on that television set.
- [35:47]
Cynthia Nixon
Right, Right.
- [35:47]
Nicole Wallace
I'll catch Act 2.
- [35:48]
Cynthia Nixon
Okay.
- [35:49]
Nicole Wallace
I won't see the full episode, but I'm like, okay, good.
- [35:51]
Cynthia Nixon
Okay, I got it. I got it.
- [35:52]
Nicole Wallace
Now, whenever I sit down with a famous politician or celebrity, I will always ask my friends, hey, I'm about to sit down with the former president. Or I'm about to sit down with Cynthia Nixon. What should I ask them now? I'd like to play a brand new game on Hasan Minhaj doesn't know called what Should I Ask Them? What should I Ask Them? What should I Ask Them? What should I Ask Them?
- [36:11]
Cynthia Nixon
Okay.
- [36:12]
Nicole Wallace
These are text messages from my friends when I ask them what I should ask you on the show. Because you usually. I ask you questions, but you don't get the real spicy ones.
- [36:20]
Cynthia Nixon
Okay. All right.
- [36:21]
Nicole Wallace
Unless it's from imessage and your friends are like, you gotta ask them this.
- [36:24]
Cynthia Nixon
Okay. Okay.
- [36:25]
Nicole Wallace
So let's do it. Okay. Okay, Here we go. Okay, let's take a look.
- [36:30]
Cynthia Nixon
All right.
- [36:30]
Nicole Wallace
This is from my buddy Adam. This was this morning at 9:41am I go, what should I ask Cynthia Nixon? Adam goes, how did you manage filming the Gilded Age, Anne? And just like that, at the same time. And how did you approach switching between characters that are so different from one another?
- [36:43]
Cynthia Nixon
When I was, like, 17, 18, I was in these two Broadway shows at the same time.
- [36:47]
Nicole Wallace
Yeah.
- [36:48]
Cynthia Nixon
And they were, again, very different characters. One of them was kind of a waif from the Midwest who's, like, living on the streets and ends up as a hooker and, like, a very downtrodden, sweet, but doomed person.
- [37:02]
Nicole Wallace
Right.
- [37:03]
Cynthia Nixon
And the other was a young British woman of privilege and great smarts who was like the daughter of a wildly successful playwright and was sort of like, sexually precocious. And Christine Baranski played my mother, and Jeremy Irons played my dad. And I was like the apple of their eye. It was like, you know, the world was my oyster. So very different parts, even different, you know, nationalities.
- [37:26]
Nicole Wallace
Did the accent ever bleed through?
- [37:27]
Cynthia Nixon
No.
- [37:28]
Nicole Wallace
Okay.
- [37:28]
Cynthia Nixon
And so those were two different roles that I had done in two plays that I had had full rehearsal periods, and I had done them each separately. And then I put them together, you know, and I thought, well, I did that. How hard could this be? Obviously, I've played Miranda for a very, very long time, and I've played Ada in the Gilded Age for, you know, a few years, you know, since before the pandemic. So there we go. And. But I found it really hard, and it didn't have to do with the period or the characters being different. Actually, that kind of differentiation is helpful so you don't get confused.
- [38:03]
Nicole Wallace
Right.
- [38:03]
Cynthia Nixon
It's not. They're not overlapping.
- [38:05]
Nicole Wallace
Yeah. Yeah.
- [38:05]
Cynthia Nixon
But the thing that was really hard, I discovered, was when I did my stage performances, they were all already created, and then I just had to, you know, redo them.
- [38:15]
Nicole Wallace
Right.
- [38:16]
Cynthia Nixon
Whereas this, it's like, we get a new script, I have to learn my line I have to find this thing. Oh, but now I'm doing this. But I'm. Because so much of an actor is about being immersed in the world. And it's like, when I do a play, I've done a number of plays where I never leave the stage. And that's so much easier than coming back on and off. It's like, you gotta get it up every time.
- [38:41]
Nicole Wallace
Oh, interesting.
- [38:41]
Cynthia Nixon
Do you know what I mean?
- [38:42]
Nicole Wallace
Yeah, yeah. And it's like never leaving the stage, meaning you are doing that play and.
- [38:46]
Cynthia Nixon
You'Re not doing that play anything else, and you're. And yeah. And, like, you don't enter and exit.
- [38:52]
Nicole Wallace
Oh, so you're on.
- [38:53]
Cynthia Nixon
So you're on. Like, got it. You know, the curtain goes up and you never leave until you're, like, bowing.
- [38:58]
Nicole Wallace
Got it. You're literally dropped into the scene.
- [39:00]
Cynthia Nixon
You're dropped into the scene. And there's no. Like, I think I'm gonna go call my whatever in the 10 minutes that I have. Oh, yeah. Where was I again?
- [39:06]
Nicole Wallace
Yeah.
- [39:07]
Cynthia Nixon
So I think it was really hard to not be immersed and to have a kind of a whiplash as I was trying to learn lines and, like, build, build, build, road build, track, you know, of, like, what's happening to my character now. I don't know. I'm trying to imagine it. Oh, now I gotta try and imagine. Oh, now I gotta. It was very hard.
- [39:28]
Nicole Wallace
Oh, got it.
- [39:29]
Cynthia Nixon
It was very hard.
- [39:32]
C
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- [40:47]
Nicole Wallace
Okay, let's try the next one. This is from my buddy Jenna. Jenna goes. I go, what should I ask Cynthia next? Then she goes, what prompted the change in Randa's sexuality? I go, I can't ask that. And she goes, come on, please. There's a lot of ease.
- [41:01]
Cynthia Nixon
Sure. So, you know, when we decided, when we were talking about doing and just like that, yeah, one of the things that I was really concerned because the show, you know, 90% of the show, the old show ages really well and 10% of it is really painful.
- [41:20]
Nicole Wallace
Okay.
- [41:21]
Cynthia Nixon
Whether you're talking about some, you know, some gay stuff in it, some, some, certainly some racial attitudes, but also it's like an unbelievably white show, which was difficult at the time, and now it just is like, ugh.
- [41:38]
Nicole Wallace
It was his own gilded age.
- [41:40]
Cynthia Nixon
What's that? It was like, exactly, exactly. And so we would all have separately and together conversations with Michael Patrick King, who's like our creator and stuff. And one of the things we were doing is we were like, we have to bring in people who are not the original women and who are not white and are our peers. Right. And we wanted to sort of make it diverse in every possible way, including gender identity. Right. And so there were a number of things we did with that. And we had gay characters from before, and we had someone's kid who turns out to be non binary and, you know, things like that. But also Michael Patrick King. We had like a two minute conversation. He said, what do you think? Should we make Miranda queer? And I was like, why not? Right?
- [42:30]
Nicole Wallace
Oh, interesting.
- [42:31]
Cynthia Nixon
If we're queering up, if, if we're, if we're trying to make it diverse in all these ways, including adding, you know, queer and non binary people and trans people. You have a homegrown queer. Why not put that in? So. And also, honestly, all of our writers, particularly Michael Patrick, they always just steal as much stuff from our own lives as we. They're down with that.
- [42:56]
Nicole Wallace
They're just like, let's, let's take that.
- [42:57]
Cynthia Nixon
Yeah, exactly.
- [42:58]
Nicole Wallace
So this is from my wife's friend Priyanka. She goes, how could you do that to Steve? He was so good to you. I don't even know what this means.
- [43:09]
Cynthia Nixon
That's all right. That's okay. That's fine. Well, you Know, here's the thing. Sometimes when people.
- [43:18]
Nicole Wallace
Oh, Steve was your old husband.
- [43:20]
Cynthia Nixon
Steve was my old husband.
- [43:20]
Nicole Wallace
Got it.
- [43:21]
Cynthia Nixon
Sometimes when I remember him. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So when people love a couple, and I mean either a fictional couple or a real couple.
- [43:29]
Nicole Wallace
Right.
- [43:30]
Cynthia Nixon
And you find out that people are getting divorced or separated, whatever, sometimes people get very upset, you know.
- [43:37]
Nicole Wallace
Yeah. It's very much like a changing of the mascot situation.
- [43:40]
Cynthia Nixon
And people don't, you know, and including sometimes the person. You know, sometimes there's one person who wants to leave and the other person who's being left, and that other person can be very upset. But I have to say, in my experience with my friends and in real life, you know, the person who thinks they don't want to break up, you check in with that person in a year and they're like, oh, we should have done this so much earlier.
- [44:06]
Nicole Wallace
That's true.
- [44:06]
Cynthia Nixon
And so this has happened with a.
- [44:08]
Nicole Wallace
Lot of my friends.
- [44:08]
Cynthia Nixon
You know, you can complain that. So you don't know. You haven't seen the show, but you can complain that Miranda didn't come to Steve and say, I don't love you anymore. I want to. That instead she had a drinking problem and fooled around with somebody else that she fell in love with and. Do you know what I mean? And that broke up the marriage. But, like.
- [44:25]
Nicole Wallace
Oh, did that break up the marriage?
- [44:26]
Cynthia Nixon
That broke up the marriage up. Well, but, you know, people, you know, break up marriages that they're trying to get out of in all kinds of ways. And, like. And I think I won't even. I was gonna say it's.
- [44:39]
Nicole Wallace
I'm. I'm dropping in now, and you're just giving me.
- [44:42]
Cynthia Nixon
Right. And. And I gotta say, maybe it's more of a male thing, but I'm not sure that this is true. But I. I do know a number of men who feel like we're married, we have kids, we cannot ever get divorced. And so sometimes they don't check in with their own unhappiness. Do you know what? And it's like. And it makes them good guys in the eyes of the world and in their own eyes, but actually, you know.
- [45:08]
Nicole Wallace
And so they see it as like a cell phone contract of like, I'm with T mobile.
- [45:11]
Cynthia Nixon
I'm with T Mobile, and I'm not Verizon. Get back.
- [45:14]
Nicole Wallace
Yeah, yeah. I'm not Get.
- [45:15]
Cynthia Nixon
Be behind me, Verizon.
- [45:16]
Nicole Wallace
I'm not thinking about anything else or how I feel about.
- [45:20]
Cynthia Nixon
Right.
- [45:20]
Nicole Wallace
T Mobile.
- [45:21]
Cynthia Nixon
And so.
- [45:21]
Nicole Wallace
Right, right, right. I got you. So, okay, next one. This is from Ashley. E, I, G H. Make this make sense. While Miranda is sharing a tiny apartment with her professor, Carrie just hands her amazing apartment over to her neighbor. What the fuck? Does Carrie hate Miranda?
- [45:38]
Cynthia Nixon
Oh, that's so interesting.
- [45:40]
Nicole Wallace
Yeah.
- [45:41]
Cynthia Nixon
Oh, that's so interesting.
- [45:42]
Nicole Wallace
Yeah. Would someone do that?
- [45:44]
Cynthia Nixon
Well, first of all, I have to say. Say. Okay, so I could answer this on a number of levels.
- [45:51]
Nicole Wallace
Please, let's do it.
- [45:52]
Cynthia Nixon
One is Miranda was having a really great time living with her. Her friend who was her. Her law professor. Nya. Yeah, they were having a great time. They were like both coming out of their marriages and they were being like soon to be divorced women together and buddies and like out on the town. Like they were having a good time. It wasn't such a tiny apartment. And the other thing is, you know, Carrie, that for her was her single girl apartment and she wanted to give it to a single girl. Miranda's not really a single girl. You know, she's like a divorced mom. Like, do you know what I mean? She felt like she wanted to honor the spirit of who she was and give it to someone that reminded her of herself. But also, just on a very practical level, if Miranda moved into Carrie's old apartment, the viewers heads would go spinning. It's such a. You don't watch the show, so you don't know. It's like as much of that show as like the bar on Cheers or the Office. On the Office, it would be as if, right? As if somehow.
- [47:04]
Nicole Wallace
So you mean, like, it would be a crossing.
- [47:07]
Cynthia Nixon
It would be. It would be. Yeah. It would be crazy. And it would also be like Carrie had like a love affair with that apartment. It was like, just because I left my husband doesn't mean you get to marry him now.
- [47:20]
Nicole Wallace
Yeah, this makes things complicated.
- [47:21]
Cynthia Nixon
Yeah, you're right. Yeah.
- [47:23]
Nicole Wallace
Okay, I'm coming at this from a straight dude's perspective. Who hasn't seen the show. Would it be the equivalent of basically if the DC universe crossed with the Marvel Universe? Or is this the wrong analogy?
- [47:35]
Cynthia Nixon
It would be as if, like, all of a sudden, Aquaman was like flying around in Wonder Woman's plane. Like, what?
- [47:45]
Nicole Wallace
Yeah, that's not possible.
- [47:46]
Cynthia Nixon
It would be very jarring.
- [47:47]
Nicole Wallace
Sure.
- [47:47]
Cynthia Nixon
Superman all of a sudden had a sidekick and it was Robin. Be like, what?
- [47:52]
Nicole Wallace
Yeah, now I get it.
- [47:53]
Cynthia Nixon
Yeah.
- [47:53]
Nicole Wallace
Okay, next one. Kayla, who is a droid user. If Miranda.
- [47:58]
Cynthia Nixon
I mean, how can you tell? Oh, because the green bubble. I see, I see, I see.
- [48:02]
Nicole Wallace
Yeah, yeah.
- [48:02]
Cynthia Nixon
Okay.
- [48:03]
Nicole Wallace
Yeah, yeah. Gilded age class warfare.
- [48:05]
Cynthia Nixon
Got it.
- [48:06]
Nicole Wallace
Versus droids.
- [48:07]
Cynthia Nixon
Right.
- [48:07]
Nicole Wallace
If Miranda from Sex and the city met the older Miranda from. And just like that, what would she say to her? And vice versa.
- [48:13]
Cynthia Nixon
I feel like older Miranda would have a lot more to say to younger Miranda than younger Miranda would have to say to older Miranda. Right, Sure.
- [48:21]
Nicole Wallace
I mean, older Miranda clearly would have more wisdom.
- [48:25]
Cynthia Nixon
Right.
- [48:26]
Nicole Wallace
But would older Miranda tell younger Miranda?
- [48:28]
Cynthia Nixon
I think that one of the main things that older Miranda would say to younger Miranda is don't stay in corporate law so long. Get out. Get out.
- [48:42]
Nicole Wallace
That response. I need to tell my sister. Jeez. She's in corporate law for a long time. Oh, that was it.
- [48:48]
Cynthia Nixon
That was it.
- [48:49]
Nicole Wallace
All right, Cynthia, thank you so much.
- [48:51]
Cynthia Nixon
Thank you.
- [48:52]
Nicole Wallace
This was rad.
- [48:52]
Cynthia Nixon
Thank you. It was rad.
- [48:54]
Nicole Wallace
Cynthia Nixon, ladies and gentlemen. Yeah. That was so fun.
- [49:00]
Cynthia Nixon
It.