How India’s Biggest Comic Reps His Home Country

Summary

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Podcast Summary: How India’s Biggest Comic Reps His Home Country

Podcast: Hasan Minhaj Doesn't Know
Host: Hasan Minhaj (186k Films)
Guest: Vir Das
Date: September 17, 2025

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Overview

This episode features an expansive, candid, and hilarious conversation between Hasan Minhaj and Vir Das, India’s biggest stand-up comic and an international star. Together, they reflect on representing India abroad, cultural translation through comedy, the psychology of diaspora identity, and their mutual struggles with belonging and representation. With genuine warmth and irreverence, the two comedians swap stories about global touring, family, the meaning of home, and the complexities of Indian culture—from izzat (honor), Nazar (evil eye), and faith, to the impossibility of explaining Shah Rukh Khan to Americans.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Risk and Art of Stand-up—Making the Audience Part of the Show

[01:24–04:55]

• Vir Das breaks down his bold choice during his special to turn off all the lights and have the audience express themselves, capturing a "raw" moment on tape:

  "Make the noise you want to be remembered for... I didn't want to lead the audience...do what you want to be remembered...because we're filming." (Vir Das, 02:36)

• Both comedians riff on the stress of taping specials and the unique vulnerability of involving the audience.
• The value of lighting and shooting the crowd:

  "You edited and you shot it in such a way that you can see the audience." (Hasan, 04:55)

• Inspiration from Def Comedy Jam and Stan Lathan’s approach to including the crowd and their reactions, underlining that stand-up is a living, breathing art, not static “testimony.”

  "This really happened in the room...don’t quote it as if it’s congressional testimony." (Hasan, 06:07)

Technical Artistry in Specials

[07:13–09:14]

• Vir describes filming in three settings—an arena in Mumbai, a London church, and the Comedy Cellar—preserving the unique soundscape and feel of each environment.

  "I think it’s kind of trippy to leave them as is and to make the audience feel what the room tone was like in these different places." (Vir Das, 08:33)

• Drawing parallels with documentary filmmaking, and how in comedy, the location matters for authenticity and emotional resonance.

Symbolism and Subtext: The Ghost Light

[09:14–10:07]

• The “ghost light” on stage as both an homage to theater tradition and a real-time barometer of Vir’s emotional journey through his set.

  "It just represents joy...when the passport goes away, ghost light goes off; when it gets handed back, slowly comes on." (Vir Das, 09:36)

• HMDK exclusive: Vir explains the device for the first time publicly.

Exploring Indian Concepts: Izzat and Nazar

[10:07–19:04]

• Riffing on “izzat,” a term translatable only in context—not just “dignity” or “self-respect,” but dignity earned and communally acknowledged:

  "It’s dignity and self respect that is earned because you recognize it has been fought for." (Vir Das, 10:35)

• Discussion on cultural hierarchies, how Indian families teach the value of thoughts/accomplishments over feelings, and how speaking up is an act of courage and dignity.

  "You have to say something to be someone. And you can be anyone to say something." (Vir Das, 13:51)

Nazar (Evil Eye) and Indian Scarcity Mindset

[17:27–19:39]

• Explaining why Indian culture is reticent to “scream happiness”—the fear of Nazar and deep scarcity mindset borne from colonization and poverty.

  "We are bred to not talk about our happiness...if you talk too much about your happiness, you will activate Nazar, which is the evil eye." (Vir Das, 17:27-18:20)

• Vir’s pivot: “You should scream the shit out of your joy...your joy doesn’t belong to just your body. Happiness watched is greater than happiness lived.” (Vir Das, 18:20-18:53)

On Fame: Explaining Shah Rukh Khan

[19:39–24:15]

• The challenge of encapsulating Shah Rukh Khan’s impact for Americans:

  "He showed up in Mumbai with one suitcase from Delhi, looked out at the sea and said, I’m going to be the king of this city. And then did." (Vir Das, 21:04)

• Key distinction between Indian and American fame:

  "American fame is sometimes I want your life, but Indian fame is I love your life...I’m here for you and your family." (Vir Das, 22:35–22:45)

• The communal and emotional profundity of Indian cinema and why it unites people across background and class.

Indian Identity and the Diaspora

[24:15–29:31]

• Hasan ponders why Indians—regardless of global migration—cling so fiercely to Indian identity:

  "It’s one of the few countries in the world where...even if you leave, people still love India." (Hasan, 24:15)

• Vir suggests the recency of independence and collective upbringing strengthens cultural connection, especially for those raised abroad.
• The bonds of Indian family and friendship, the deep involvement of parents, and the experience of diaspora life:

  "It would be of great honor to me to have my dad follow me around at work. What a privilege this is." (Hasan, 29:15)

Comedy as Cultural Bridge—Responsibility and Translation

[30:01–36:47]

• Vir and Hasan on representing India worldwide:

  "What would be the point if I went up on stage and told you five things you already knew? I came all this way, you know, I’m gonna take you someplace new." (Vir Das, 30:26)

• On the gap (and online “beef”) between Indians from India and diaspora Indians (NRIs/ABCDs):

  "I don’t think you guys get enough flowers for...you are very cute guardians of Indian culture at some level as well." (Vir Das, 35:22)

• But context matters:

  "You’ve got to have context...it’s also nice when I get to take you back to like modern India." (Vir Das, 36:05)

The Emotional Complexity of Beauty, Identity, and Representation

[37:06–39:29]

• Navigating Western notions of beauty—pride in Indian features, shared struggles growing up, the implicit solidarity of diaspora:

  "There are things I saw...growing up, the way [my sister] had to pluck her eyebrows or trim her arm hair…it’s in me." (Hasan, 37:52–38:45)

• The growing “soft” cultural power of India and how both India-born and diaspora Indians play a role.

Social Media, Hero Worship, and Faith

[42:04–47:05]

• Vir challenges the logic of social media self-obsession and celebrity idolatry:

  "I don’t think we are meant to watch our own lives...maybe the answer to all three is yes, and you’re not supposed to know, and that’s okay." (Vir Das, 42:04) "Your admiration should be like your asshole. Only people close to you should get it." (Vir Das, 42:49)

• Hasan argues America is struggling with the dangers of “hero worship” of politicians and celebrities, which inevitably leads to disappointment.
• Indian faith as a structural anchor:

  "Faith in India affects circumstance more than by virtue of circumstance...tangible blessings come from intangible faith." (Vir Das, 47:08)

The Meaning of Home

[48:36–50:31]

• Vir reads a moving reflection about never owning a home despite living all over the world, and the paradox of rootlessness and freedom.

  "I’ve never owned a home…I have zero roots, no safety net...Depending on who you are, I’ve either seriously messed up my life or avoided messing up a life." (Vir, 48:44)

• His wife’s free spirit and embrace of a nomadic life provide a sense of home untethered to geography.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Comedy's Power:

  "In the dark, we all sound the same...sometimes if you turn the lights off, there are no ideological silos anymore." (Vir Das, 03:21)

• On Soft Power:

  "India does have a soft power. It does have a cultural power that's on the rise, and we both are the two ends of that bridge." (Vir Das, 38:45)

• On Family:

  "It's a very Indian thing to be like, yo, you need to meet my dad." (Hasan, 28:41)

• On Joy and Scarcity:

  "I was brought up with, protect your peace, protect your joy, don't tell anyone. The myth is if you talk too much about your happiness, you will activate Nazar, the evil eye." (Vir Das, 17:38)
  "You should scream the shit out of your joy...Happiness watched is greater than happiness lived." (Vir Das, 18:20–18:53)

• On Global Representation:

  "If you're a Chappelle audience member, why the hell can't I take you to Mumbai?" (Vir Das, 01:54, again at 30:52)

• On Faith:

  "Tangible blessings come from intangible faith in India. I think that's what it is— you have a place of strength." (Vir Das, 47:05)

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Important Timestamps

• [01:24] – Vir on the show’s bold opening; lighting choices
• [03:21] – Laughter as a universal, ideological equalizer
• [06:07] – Audience inclusion in comedy, Def Comedy Jam history
• [09:36] – The ghost light’s symbolism discussed for the first time
• [10:35] – Deep dive into the meaning of “izzat”
• [17:27] – Nazar and the Indian fear of attracting ill will
• [19:39] – The “problem” of explaining Shah Rukh Khan
• [22:35] – Difference between “I want your life” (USA) and “I love your life” (India)
• [24:15] – The tenacity of Indian identity abroad
• [29:15] – The unique depth of Indian friendships and family ties
• [30:26] – Comedy and the responsibility of representing something new
• [35:22] – Diaspora as “cute guardians” of Indian culture
• [37:52] – Pride, beauty, and representation as an Indian in the West
• [42:04] – Vir’s satirical takes on social media life
• [47:08] – Faith, circumstance, and communal belonging
• [48:44] – Vir’s reflection on home and rootlessness

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Episode Tone

Relaxed, irreverent, wise, and deeply personal; both Hasan and Vir openly wrestle with cultural contradictions, making fun of themselves and each other, while dropping incisive cultural analysis. The episode balances heartfelt moments on family and identity with biting comedy and observations on the modern condition.

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For anyone curious about modern Indian identity, comedy as cross-cultural art, or the paradoxes of diaspora life, this episode is a masterclass.

Transcript

[Hasan Minhaj]

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[Vir Das]

Lemonade. What would be the point if I stood in the visa line for three hours and then took a 17 hour flight and landed in JFK, which is another eight hours, and got interrogated with questions about my purpose in life and all of that. And then I kind of went up on stage and told you five things you already knew. Came all this way. You know, I'm, I'm going to take you someplace new.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah.

[Vir Das]

I don't know about Ohio. I never been to Ohio. Chappelle takes you to Ohio, right?

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah, totally.

[Vir Das]

And you go. Right, right. If you're a Chappelle audience member, why the hell can't I take you to Mumbai?

[Hasan Minhaj]

So you have this thing in the show where the lights turn off.

[Vir Das]

Yeah.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Okay. What, what did that moment in the show represent? All the lights shut off and then you kind of. There's this moment and we'll play it. People start screaming out how they feel.

[Vir Das]

Yeah, well, I didn't know what they would do in that moment. I'd never done it before. It was just a moment and there's a pause and it's pretty terrifying to me.

[Hasan Minhaj]

The Christmas tree in London. Yeah.

[Vir Das]

But also in the stadium. I was just like, make the noise you want to be remembered for. Because I didn't want to lead the audience in any way. I didn't want to say like, make some noise for this Etc. Etc. I'm just like, do what you want to be remembered. Because we're filming.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah.

[Vir Das]

And the room kind of shook a little bit, and the camera's not on me, it's just on the light. But if you look at me, I'm looking pretty terrified and clueless because I did not expect that to happen. I didn't expect it to be that vibrant. I don't know. I. I do think one of the central messages of the show, and this is, as somebody who tries to, like, go to different places, is that's the one thing we have, right. That no matter what we look like, who we worship, age, sexuality, nationality, laughter. Sounds the same.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah.

[Vir Das]

Right. And in the dark, we all sound the same. Cause that's all we have is. Is the noise we make. And I. I do feel like. And maybe not the kind of comedy that you do, which I'm a fan of, because your. Your comedy empowers people to come in, you know, and it calls people in. Right. But I think we know enough comedy that shuts people out and kind of lives in an ideological silo. And I feel like sometimes if you turn the lights off, there are no ideological silos anymore.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Oh, interesting.

[Vir Das]

What I like is, you know, we can fundamentally disagree about something, but laugh about it under the same roof. I think that is, at some level, what's nice about our profession.

[Hasan Minhaj]

It's also, as you were telling me the story, I've done three specials, and tape days are so stressful.

[Vir Das]

Yeah.

[Hasan Minhaj]

So the fact that you did that, you don't know what you're gonna get.

[Vir Das]

I don't know what I'm gonna get.

[Hasan Minhaj]

But yeah. Yeah. In the control room, they have the monitor with the six little squares in here. Like, I don't know what the fuck's gonna happen. This is gonna be a nightmare in the edit.

[Vir Das]

So it was just a.

[Hasan Minhaj]

The fact that you're telling me that you didn't rehearse it before.

[Vir Das]

Yeah.

[Hasan Minhaj]

It's a pretty ballsy move, because you don't know it's gonna fuck you up in the edit if it doesn't.

[Vir Das]

I mean, we could have cut it out, right?

[Hasan Minhaj]

Sure, you could lift it.

[Vir Das]

We could lift it. But 90% of this edit, by the way, I'm not even editing for me.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Oh, really?

[Vir Das]

I'm editing for people in the background. I did this thing where I lit the entire audience, Right?

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah.

[Vir Das]

So I'm just like. It's a great angle for me, but this dude's, like, scratching his eye in the background, so I have to Change angles for that. So. So even. That was a trippy edit, but I.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Love that you edited. You edited and you shot it in such a way that you can see the audience.

[Vir Das]

You can see the audience.

[Hasan Minhaj]

But I have even.

[Vir Das]

Even your shows. You can see the audience. Like I. Off with his head.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yes, you can see the audience quite a bit. Yeah. There was, I think, in a good way. And look, I want to shout out one of the originators of it, which is Stan Lathan and Deaf Comedy Jam.

[Vir Das]

Okay.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Him putting the audience in the Apollo in a thrust.

[Vir Das]

Some of this stuff I might not be too familiar with. I apologize. So. No, no.

[Hasan Minhaj]

So in the early 90s, do you remember, you've probably seen clips on YouTube for. Of Def Comedy Jam, like Patrice O' Neill and stuff. Yeah, you'll see Patrice O', Neill, but you'll see even, like, a young Martin Lawrence. You'll see a young Chris Tucker. You'll see a young Dave Chappelle.

[Vir Das]

All right.

[Hasan Minhaj]

And the. The Apollo Theater in Harlem, which is Harlem's, like, 125th street and up, is an iconic theater for black comedy and just black art.

[Vir Das]

Okay.

[Hasan Minhaj]

And the fact that Stan, in the early. Stan Lathan, legendary director who now still directs Dave Chappelle's specials, shot it in such a way that did two things. Number one, it put the comic in the audience.

[Vir Das]

Nice.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Then everybody in the audience is lit. And so it kind of implicates everybody in the joke.

[Vir Das]

Yeah.

[Hasan Minhaj]

And I. And I. And I don't mean implicate, like, in a bad way, as if, like, you're trying to litigate a lawsuit. It just means that this really happened in the room.

[Vir Das]

Yeah.

[Hasan Minhaj]

This was this person's genuine reaction. One of the most iconic versions of it, when people talk about, is comedy mean, like, is it cruel? There's an iconic clip where Martin Lawrence, who is the host of it, bring different comics out, roasts a woman and calls her Big Bird. Okay. She's wearing just a fluffy yellow dress, and she. Does Loki look like Big Bird.

[Vir Das]

All right.

[Hasan Minhaj]

But the audience is, like, dying. But she's also laughing, too.

[Vir Das]

Great.

[Hasan Minhaj]

And so what that did, I think. And I think it needs to be kind of. I'm so glad that it exists in the blockchain is. Hey, this is a living, breathing thing that happened that night.

[Vir Das]

Yeah.

[Hasan Minhaj]

And so don't quote it as if it's congressional testimony. Don't quote it as if it's a novel. You have to see it within what it is now that it's been converted into, like, one by one. TikTok or Instagram reels. It's become a person's face, almost giving us.

[Vir Das]

You have no context for where it lives in breeds. And also, I think there's. There is a way to shoot a stand up special where you can make a person feel like they're in the room. You know, I think there are two different schools of comedy, and one is. And I think we're all forced into making this special early on in our careers when we don't know how to make a special, which is sweeping jib shots and like a dolly and this and that, et cetera, et cetera. And then you just feel like you're watching a show that you weren't at, you know, and then slowly, with a few specials, you start figuring out, maybe I'll just put the camera where an audience member would be. And that changes the complete pov.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah.

[Vir Das]

And then if you. If you light the audience and you can see them and you. You shoot a little dirty, you know, you have some shoulders in frame. You kind of have angles that aren't flattering.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah, yeah.

[Vir Das]

For the artist.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah.

[Vir Das]

I feel like that's a better shoot.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Totally.

[Vir Das]

You feel like you're in the room. And even with the mix on this one, like, we had a. It's a nightmare. Right. Because it's an arena and then it's a church with, like a massive ceiling. And then it's the cellar. It's a basement.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Why did you choose three locations? Why did you go from Arena, Mumbai, London Church, and then Comedy Cellar? Why that size?

[Vir Das]

I didn't originally choose the cellar. I only had two. Then I lost my voice.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Oh, got it.

[Vir Das]

And I was like, I need a third to set context for the backstory.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Right. Yeah.

[Vir Das]

And because it's meant to be truthful, what better place than, like, McDougal street and the basement? But it's three different soundscapes. Right. And you could kind of slickly mix them in with each other, but I think it's kind of trippy to leave them as is and to make the audience feel what the room tone was like in these different places. Totally. But I mean, you know, as old as a Seinfeld gets to do it, which is cut between stand up reference to what's happening in the plotline.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Right.

[Vir Das]

And a documentary has a talking head that references footage. So the seller kind of is my talking head.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah. That's moving exposition forward in the story.

[Vir Das]

Yeah.

[Hasan Minhaj]

So the ghost light you studied in the U.S. yeah. I didn't get a chance to ask you this, but Is the ghost light in reference to what they use in theater where they keep a ghost light.

[Vir Das]

On stage to ward off evil spirits.

[Hasan Minhaj]

To ward off evil spirits? Yes, it was homage to that. And then was did the flickering of the, the, like the, the throbbing of the ghost lights, what was that indicative of?

[Vir Das]

Oh, how happy I am in the special. So when the passport goes away, ghost light goes off?

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yes.

[Vir Das]

When it gets handed back to me, slowly comes on. If the bid is my nephew setting me on fire, it's flickering. If it's me praying to God, the ghost light is at its brightest. If it's me getting beaten up, the ghost light is at its dimmest. So it just represents joy.

[Hasan Minhaj]

That's awesome. This is your first time saying this?

[Vir Das]

Yeah. HMDK exclusive.

[Hasan Minhaj]

The limiting factor of language is sometimes there is a word in Hindi or in Urdu that does not translate.

[Vir Das]

It only exists in Hindi in that.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Okay, so riff this out with me. I have tried to explain the concept of izzat.

[Vir Das]

Yeah.

[Hasan Minhaj]

To people in America. And the way I've tried to establish that is I say it's like dignity and self respect.

[Vir Das]

Sure. Yeah. Add on to that.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yes, yes, please help me.

[Vir Das]

I think that it's dignity and self respect that is earned because you recognize that it has been fought for. I think that's izzat. You know what I mean when you say samaj izzat karthiyaski, which is, you know, the entire society respects this man. It's usually because that man or woman fought for it. And there's an acceptance within society of their fight, recognition of their fight. I think that's izzat. You know, a lot of people conflate izzat with respect. And you respect your grandfather.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah.

[Vir Das]

You know, you respect a policeman. But there are some people who have izzat, which is everybody kind of knows what their story is and knows what they went through and there's an acceptance of their struggle.

[Hasan Minhaj]

How would you describe. What's the word that would describe one's own baseline? Because I also apply it to oneself of like I actually have to say something just out of. For my own dignity and self respect. Is that in and of itself, which I think is not a, a concept that is firmly understood in the West.

[Vir Das]

Really? Yeah.

[Hasan Minhaj]

There's shame. And shame is associated with kind of Sunday school. They call it like Catholic guilt, etc.

[Vir Das]

Yeah.

[Hasan Minhaj]

I'll give you an example. Sometimes when I hang out with Zakir Khan, the wonderful comedian, he'll talk about the way in which we treat people's Parents or members of their family.

[Vir Das]

Yeah.

[Hasan Minhaj]

And it's like, hey, I'm not going to do roast jokes or do low blows about those people.

[Vir Das]

Yeah.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Just because of their inherent right in and of itself. I also think that's.

[Vir Das]

Is that.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Or maybe I'm thinking about it the wrong way.

[Vir Das]

I think so. I think also you can measure a person by how they treat people with less power than them.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah.

[Vir Das]

And I think that's also izzat.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah.

[Vir Das]

You know, more often than not, izzat applies to people who are. Who have less power than you. So how do you treat an assistant director? How do you treat the guy who's driving you to set?

[Hasan Minhaj]

Right.

[Vir Das]

Or how do you treat people within your company? That too. Is izzat true? Yeah, at some level.

[Hasan Minhaj]

You know, I also think there's something beautiful in it that just kind of elucidates the baseline of what, what one's human rights are.

[Vir Das]

You know, it's an interesting thing because I, I'm trying to write about this and it's a weird one because we're taught as Indian children.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah.

[Vir Das]

That our thoughts give us value, not our feelings. You know, and then it's.

[Hasan Minhaj]

I thought it was accomplishments also, but I mean, thoughts like accomplishments in test schools.

[Vir Das]

Yeah. But it's, you know, thoughts leading to accomplishments. Right. But we don't grow up with an audacity of. My feelings deserve to be shared with everyone and listened to by everyone. And I feel like it takes accomplishment and it takes inner work to get to that point. But it's something that we fight, that your parents may not have even impressed upon you. It's just cultural, it's multi generational. And I think that too is a form of izzat to say. No, I think I deserve to say this out loud. The old Indian societal approach to it was you have to be someone to say something, you know, And I think we have to get to. You have to say something to be someone.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yes.

[Vir Das]

And you can be anyone to say something.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yes.

[Vir Das]

I think comedy kind of lives within that. In the young comedy scene that I'm in, it lives in that space where it's like, who are these people to say these things? These idiots?

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah.

[Vir Das]

Who the fuck are you? And the answer is no one. And that's okay.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah. Oh, that's interesting. Meaning that you have inherent value in and of itself because you're a human being.

[Vir Das]

Because you're a human and you do.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Not have to be a senator or.

[Vir Das]

A accomplish, accomplished or recognized. And especially in India where, you know, content, creation is quite democratic in India in that you've got a billion point three who will watch with the largest smartphone audience in the world.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah.

[Vir Das]

And a young kid can put up a YouTube video and get 30 million views. That's beautiful. It's kind of beautiful, right?

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah. That's great.

[Vir Das]

So that pivot is happening now where people are like, I've never heard of this fucking guy. Why is he talking about this big thing? Who the hell are you? But the answer is no one. And he has a smartphone and that's okay.

[Hasan Minhaj]

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[Vir Das]

Okay, Indians, we are bred to not talk about our happiness. If you're prospering, if things are good, shut the fuck up. And not. Why, just because we.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Because I believe that too, but it's.

[Vir Das]

Because we lived with scarcity mindset for 400 years and we've just gone to abundance mindset. Scarcity mindset is we're under the British and there are these 10 opportunities or 11 opportunities. And if your family happens to be doing well, shut up. Don't tell a soul, because it's hard for everyone. And now it's ours. We hold the baby and there's abundance mindset. And that's a pivot. Right? So to me, I was brought up with, protect your peace, protect your joy, don't tell anyone. And the. The myth is that if you talk too much about your happiness, you will activate Nazar, which is the evil eye, which I call ill wishers.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yes.

[Vir Das]

Right. Which is just people casually wishing ill upon you.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yes.

[Vir Das]

They've combined evil with delegation. They expect the universe to do it. They just wish it. But I think the arc of the special is that you should scream the shit out of your joy. You should yell it from the rooftops. Because at some level, your joy doesn't belong to just your body. You owe it to have it enter another human being's body. And I think, you know, the line in the special is, happiness watched is greater than happiness lived. So you owe your happiness to leave your body and to watch it in somebody else's.

[Hasan Minhaj]

I have to unlock this. I watched the whole special and I'm still like, why are you saying this? You gotta hide this.

[Vir Das]

Don't do that. I mean, it's. I think also sometimes it's.

[Hasan Minhaj]

It's beautiful, though.

[Vir Das]

It's beautiful. But, you know, I. I live in India, where, you know, this is an important turn that we're making right now as a country.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yes.

[Vir Das]

Which is, oh, abundance, a global footprint. There's opportunities for everybody. Startups can prosper.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah.

[Vir Das]

You know, so at some level, we have to. Isn't that kind of American Audacity as well.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Totally.

[Vir Das]

Right. Which is. Look at me, man. I got the house. I got the picket fence. My. Sure. You know, my stuff is going well. I think we need to get there, you know.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah.

[Vir Das]

And kind of chest out a little bit about our joy.

[Hasan Minhaj]

How do you explain Shah Rukh Khan to people in America?

[Vir Das]

How do I explain Shahrukh Khan?

[Hasan Minhaj]

I have had countless discussions where I go. I don't even know how to do the analogy here.

[Vir Das]

Okay. I. Two years into coming to Mumbai as a young comic, I get invited to Shah Rukh Khan's house to write the film. Right. To write the Filmfare awards. Mannat is this house on the sea. He's got this study that is wooden paneled and wooden ceilings and all of you know, and the electronic wooden blinds that I'd never fucking seen before. And books and awards. And you show up and, you know, I'd written some jokes that were terribly immature, but he kind of sat with me for three nights, right? And he's like, all right, young blood, what do you have? Right? And three nights. Three nights. That's pretty cool. And fed us, played video games. Know. Just really a cool, cool guy.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah.

[Vir Das]

Only guy I've ever seen. When we write words, you expect somebody to just kind of. Please, just say it. Like I wrote it in my head.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Perform it.

[Vir Das]

Perform it.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah.

[Vir Das]

He's the only guy I've seen who will change it. And it's just better because it's him. So he can. He understands a joke. He knows his way around a joke. He. He. He understands a misdirect. He understands a pause, all of that stuff, and he makes it better. You look outside, you're sitting and writing in a study, and you look outside and there's 5,000 people or 3,000 people.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Vir Das]

I think what encapsulates him is he showed up in Mumbai with one suitcase from Delhi, looked out at the sea and said, I'm going to be the king of this city. And then did and bought the house by the sea. And he makes you believe it could happen for you, too. But at the end of the day, even if it doesn't, you're just glad it happened for him.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Oh, that's dope.

[Vir Das]

I think that Shadow Khan. Yeah.

[Hasan Minhaj]

The top part of that sounds almost sociopathic. But then the back part of that, you're like, oh, man, that's really cool.

[Vir Das]

Yeah.

[Hasan Minhaj]

He's what a. What a dream that could represent.

[Vir Das]

You feel the room move. Have you met him? Have you not met him?

[Hasan Minhaj]

I've never met him.

[Vir Das]

All right, so you feel the room move.

[Hasan Minhaj]

I've gotten an Instagram comment from him.

[Vir Das]

But I've never met him. I've feel the room move when. When. When he walks in.

[Hasan Minhaj]

So I've tried to describe it to American people, where I go, so, do you know movies? And they're like, yeah. And I go, he's just. The movies. I. I could. I didn't even use Tom Cruise as an analogy. I'm like, he is as foundational to cinema as the opening credits are. Like, it's. It's. He's in the. The DNA code of it.

[Vir Das]

It's a different sound. I think if Tom Cruise was to walk into a crowd, they'd be like, oh, my God, Tom. If Shahrukh Khan walked in, you just be like, you know, like, it's a different sound. You know, it also. I think India does fame very differently than America does fame. I think Indian fame far supersedes kind of American fame in terms of emotional connection.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Okay.

[Vir Das]

American fame is sometimes I want your life, you know? But Indian fame is I love your life.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Like, wow, okay.

[Vir Das]

You know, so I think I love your life.

[Hasan Minhaj]

What does that even mean?

[Vir Das]

It's. Look at what you're doing. You know what I mean, man? I'm here for you and your family. Look at what you did, man. When. When Diljit plays Coachella.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah.

[Vir Das]

You know what I mean? That's f. Hell, you're there, I'm here, you know, like, that's it. I think that's Indian fame. And American fame is that too. But it's also, I love your fit. I want your products. I. You know, it's this.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Oh, how do I. How do I borrow a piece of that for myself?

[Vir Das]

A piece of that for myself? You know? Because I think also the. Sometimes the distance between the fan and the artist in America is less.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yes.

[Vir Das]

And the distance between the fan and the artist in India is sometimes very large.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Right.

[Vir Das]

You know, something that's. That I love about a Hindi movie or Bollywood movie or a regional movie is, you know, a guy who works in a job, has one thing to do on a Sunday, he gets one thing with his family, and that's a movie. You know, so if you show that guy Spotlight, he's gonna kill himself. You know what I'm saying? Right. So, yeah, you gotta show him colors and escapism and emotion and make him feel like a part of him could have been in that movie.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah.

[Vir Das]

It's a deep, deep, deep connection like the movies. It's also one of the few just in the darkness of a cinema hall, everybody's the same. And I think many people have said this, Amitabh Bachchan has said this. You know, many people have said that. It's really a beautiful thing.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Movies help me navigate this theory. I have this theory which is, and I felt this, being Indian, is that it's one of the few countries in the world where no matter what, even if you leave India, people still love India and their Indian heritage. Versus, and I make fun of Ronny Cheng for this. Chinese people that leave China don't rep China, dude. So despite, despite India's problems. Whatever.

[Vir Das]

Yeah.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Down, left, right, center. They will still see India with rose colored glasses and with a deep sense of love and pride, which is really cool.

[Vir Das]

I. Well, two things. One, I'll see Americans land in Mumbai or in Goa and in like five minutes they're in the tie dye thing with the beach. It's gone.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah. You know. Yeah.

[Vir Das]

Maybe because it's. We're young and we've just taken a hold of our culture.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Oh, India, you mean India.

[Vir Das]

We're young as an independent country. We're young and so we're just kind of honing what's ours.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yes.

[Vir Das]

So if you think about all the Indians that, that left in the 60s, 70s, it's not very long ago.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Right.

[Vir Das]

So, you know, I think they left still holding that because they'd just been handed that. But.

[Hasan Minhaj]

But why is it when I meet Indian people like yourself that grew up in Kenya or Uganda or Tanzania.

[Vir Das]

Yeah.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Or Nigeria, they still are like, yeah, but I'm Indian.

[Vir Das]

I am.

[Hasan Minhaj]

They may have no memories from their childhood.

[Vir Das]

Yeah.

[Hasan Minhaj]

In Delhi or Bangalore, wherever their families were. Hyderabad. But they're like, yeah, I grew up in, you know, Uganda, but I'm Indian.

[Vir Das]

Maybe it's because.

[Hasan Minhaj]

And it's there, there is this fond subtext to it.

[Vir Das]

Yeah. Maybe it's because more people raise a child in India than the average family elsewhere in the world. And children leave the house earlier as well. So it's a little more individualistic. But in India you are raised by grandparents and so just that culture of imbibing culture is stronger.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah.

[Vir Das]

I don't know. It's a good question. But like, for me, I grew up in Africa, but like by the time I was nine years old, my parents were like, he needs to be in India. And so I was sent to boarding school in India from Africa immediately. And that was a conscious decision saying our child needs an Indian upbringing. So then eight months a year, I'm basically in India. And then four Months a year, like summer vacations, etc. I'm going back to Africa, which, again, is this kind of really bubble Indian community in Lagos, Nigeria.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah.

[Vir Das]

I don't know. We band together. You can, like.

[Hasan Minhaj]

I. I'm still trying to crack this. I don't know the reason why.

[Vir Das]

I don't know. I. I've traveled the world more than most people I know, and our number one export is Gujarati tourists all over the world. So I've been able to eavesdrop on just Gujarati people saying shit in the most beautiful locations in the world. Yeah. And they. They kind of wander from country to country, perpetually unimpressed, and comparing it to some shit in Gujarat that nobody has seen.

[Hasan Minhaj]

But. But compare this. You spend time in the us you'll have a friend who's Korean, and you'll be like, my. My parents came from. And they will write essays even though I'm Korean. This is why I'm American. You can walk up to any Indian person, even if they're a US Citizen, and go, you're not American. They go, yeah, I'm Indian. They literally are like, yeah, I'm Indian. I do not care. I really love that about being Indian. Yeah. Like, I don't give a fuck. Oh, I'm not going to write a think piece about why I'm. I am London. I, like, I'm Indian, bro.

[Vir Das]

For diaspora kids, is it perhaps because your parents left India behind and miss it and want to make it live through you? So they're like, this is my Retention of India project. Is my child.

[Hasan Minhaj]

I don't know. For me, it's just a feeling. Like, it's a feeling even from the first time we met, or I'll meet anybody that is of Indian heritage. And I'm like, I just. I know what your kitchen smells like. I know what your dadi is like. I know what your nani's like. I just know how everything moves. And that Ms. DOS operating system is, like, in my soul.

[Vir Das]

And also with family. Like, okay, I remember I met you and your dad outside the cello. Do you remember this?

[Hasan Minhaj]

I don't remember.

[Vir Das]

You and your dad were heading.

[Hasan Minhaj]

My dad was there?

[Vir Das]

Yeah, your dad and you were headed to the village Underground.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Oh, yeah.

[Vir Das]

My dad was walking with me. That's beautiful. It's the most Indian thing to be like, yo, you need to meet my dad.

[Hasan Minhaj]

You know what I mean?

[Vir Das]

And I was like, of course I need to meet your dad.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah.

[Vir Das]

Yeah.

[Hasan Minhaj]

And we weren't d. I wasn't trying to, like, put a ring on it. Yeah.

[Vir Das]

Well, there was that one date, but, but let's not talk about. But it was, it was a very Indian thing.

[Hasan Minhaj]

It's a very Indian thing where I'm.

[Vir Das]

Like, I, I absolutely have to meet your father.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah. But if I, if I do that with my American friends, they're like, are you like a chamcha? Like you're like your dad's. And I'm like, yeah, I am his spoon. What are you talking about? It's my father.

[Vir Das]

Yeah. It would be weird if you introduce your dad to your American friends.

[Hasan Minhaj]

I think people would be like, you're almost 40 years old and you're walking through the West Village, going from the Village Underground to the, to McDougal Street.

[Vir Das]

Yeah.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Doing multiple spots a night with your dad as if he's dropping you off a bas practice in middle school. But it's a very Indian thing to be like, you met a babe. This is my father. What are you talking about? It would be of great honor to me to have my dad follow me around at work. What a, what a privilege this is.

[Vir Das]

I also think Indian friendships are deeper because you go over to each other's houses and sit on each other's beds and their parents ask you intrusive questions about your parents and, you know.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah.

[Vir Das]

That forms a friendship.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah. And, and so for me also, I don't even have to talk about political headlines. What's really beautiful is that all of that stuff, cast, religion, politics, kind of goes to the side when you're just sitting in someone's.

[Vir Das]

Yeah.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Bedroom, for sure. And you're just connecting with.

[Vir Das]

Yeah.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Their parents and vice versa. You have to represent. I think it's also because of your accent and just your upbringing and heritage, but you felt this tremendous sense to represent India. How do you bridge that gap when you land in Copenhagen? How do you shape the act?

[Vir Das]

What would be the point if I stood in the visa line for three hours.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah.

[Vir Das]

And then took a 17 hour flight and landed in JFK, which is another eight hours, and got interrogated, you know, with questions about my purpose in life and all of that shit.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah.

[Vir Das]

And then I kind of went up on stage and told you five things you already knew. I came all this way, you know, I'm take you someplace new. You know, the logic is, I don't know about Ohio. I've never been to Ohio. Chappelle takes you to Ohio, right?

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah, totally.

[Vir Das]

And you go, right, right. If you're a Chappelle audience member, why the hell can't I take you to Mumbai?

[Hasan Minhaj]

That's Great. Yeah.

[Vir Das]

You know, why can't I take you to New Delhi? And why can't I explain to you what a chudel is, a female witch, et cetera? You know, that I. That my people go to Harvard, you know that. That we're the number one prosperous community, you know, all of these things. And there's great representation of that in your pop culture and all of that stuff. I came all this way. Carnegie hall, like I said, is around the corner for you. It's across the fucking world for me.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Right.

[Vir Das]

I' ma say something you haven't heard before.

[Hasan Minhaj]

You know, why is there beef between Indians and NRIs? So for the audience that's not aware, there is this digital chasm between Indians from India and then what I am, which is an Indian.

[Vir Das]

You're not an nri. You're a second generation.

[Hasan Minhaj]

But I'm told I'm an nri. You're a non resident Indian.

[Vir Das]

Your dad would be an nri, but you would be an abcd. I think you'd be an American born confused desi. I'm an FOB fresh off the boat.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Sure.

[Vir Das]

Right.

[Hasan Minhaj]

But I've been called the nri and in many a Reddit discourse. Yeah.

[Vir Das]

Why are you reading Reddit, man? What is. Are you. Are you reading comments?

[Hasan Minhaj]

I'm not reading. No, no, no. I've. Long ago. Not long ago. I'd say probably a year or two ago. Just been like, I can't do this.

[Vir Das]

The.

[Hasan Minhaj]

I mean, but. But I know the general discourse is it's under the umbrella of we are Indians. You are not from India. You were born in the US or you're born in UK or Canada. You do not get to speak on India or Indian heritage. You're an nri.

[Vir Das]

Yeah.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Why this? Why this chasm? Why this divide?

[Vir Das]

I don't think that there's. I think there's. It's a little more nuanced than that.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Okay, talk to me.

[Vir Das]

All right. I think it's sometimes when we travel the world with the accent that I do, we're looked upon as if we're slightly simpler and that we haven't competed with the world as such. And I think we now live in a space where we really do compete with the world and we're kind of owning this accent. You know, it's something that you don't do. And I appreciate about you, but I think you can remember 20 years of comedy where this was the punchline.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yes.

[Vir Das]

Right. It was American accent set up and then suddenly. And then that was the punchline.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yes.

[Vir Das]

And now this accent gets to say things. Right. So sometimes NRIs can be like, you know what India needs. Ba, ba, ba, ba, ba. Right. And I think that can be informed by an ancient time capsule version of India that they left behind. And much like I consume America in sound bites and Twitter videos.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah.

[Vir Das]

They consume India in the same way. And the ground reality is actually very, very, very different. Different.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Right.

[Vir Das]

You know, if you went to.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Ah, so the critique is you haven't put skin in the game. Of.

[Vir Das]

Of course you have skin in the game. You're probably sending money home, you probably have family that you're supporting. So that's legitimate skin in the game.

[Hasan Minhaj]

But, but, but the day to day life of if your family's in Haryana or they're in Gujarat or if they're in Bangalore, if they're in, you know, mp up whatever state your family's from.

[Vir Das]

Yeah.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Hey, have you lived here and seen it in the.

[Vir Das]

Well, have you at least visited, you know, have you at least come by.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah.

[Vir Das]

You know, to get that, you know, to get texture.

[Hasan Minhaj]

You know what my pushback is? This is my pushback. Whenever they go, who are you to say? So I go twice a year, but I still get the.

[Vir Das]

I don't think that's fair then. If you're going, you're going.

[Hasan Minhaj]

But my pushback is this is like, hey, you know this and I know this. Where we stand on the world stage. You know this and I know this. You know how bad we've done at the Olympics. So every playground that I'm on, I have the same Balak paneer body that you have. I have the same gene pool you have. I have the same fuzz on my hand. For some reason. I don't know why the fuck I have hair here or hair here. We have the same eyebrow density. And I am on the playground fighting goddamn Vikings. Full European bred Gorilog, fists up representing you guys. So you can't. Whether you like it or not, they, they think we are the same.

[Vir Das]

I have the same genetics and I'm on the train, man. No, but I'm dealing with aqi. I've got an uncle grabbing me by the collar and putting me on the train. We are both going through equally physically strenuous activities with the same amount of fuzz and the same exact eyebrows. Right.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yes.

[Vir Das]

What I to pay Diaspora a compliment, which I don't think you guys get enough flowers for, is you are very cute guardians of Indian culture at some level as well. Like what I love about diaspora kids is cute guardians you are. I laugh at this sometime. It's like cuz, you know, your accent is American, you have American educations, American audacity, American values and principles. But at your wedding you're like, mehendi lagat Kira. Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course. And I'm like, that's cute. You know, why is that cute? Because it's nice to see how closely you hold that.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yes, of course.

[Vir Das]

You know, it's nice to see when Shah Rukh comes and visits how much you feel like he's taking you home.

[Hasan Minhaj]

I'm not going to do Juta Chapai.

[Vir Das]

Right, There you go.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Of course we are.

[Vir Das]

But it's also nice when, when I get to come over and, you know, diaspora kids show up and I get to take you back to like modern India where Hanuman Kind is making music or, you know, where Vikram Aditya Motwani is making movies and where, you know, Ranveer Singh is doing what Ranveer Singh does. Right.

[Hasan Minhaj]

You know, I brought him up on stage at the Comedy Cellar. Did I tell you this?

[Vir Das]

Did he kill?

[Hasan Minhaj]

He gave a speech like it was the Filmfare awards.

[Vir Das]

I would like to thank Manik Chand Pan.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah, yeah. But he was dressed like Katt Williams. So it was like the whole audience was like, what's happening right now? But it was a moment to me that was across the spider verse moment, my best. It was really beautiful. But that's what I mean where I.

[Vir Das]

Think he would kill.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Like NRI kids have a lot of pride for that. And so we just want that.

[Vir Das]

I never begrudge an NRI kid holding on to culture. But I just feel like you've got to have context. So I know that you come twice a year, I know you have contacts, but I also know that you're not. You don't cut yourself off to only people within your community.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Sure.

[Vir Das]

You liaise with people who come in from India. You know, I've seen you support many Indian artists who come in from India. We were in Montreal and you were like, do you want to jump on?

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah.

[Vir Das]

And we were at the same time. And I would do that for you any day. You were in Mumbai.

[Hasan Minhaj]

But you know, where it comes from, from me is that I see myself in you and vice versa. So what I meant by the playground is there is a. And I'm sure you have this. You know, my wife is Indian. Your wife is Indian as well. There is growing up in the west, there is a notion of what beauty looks like. There's a notion of what is that looks like There's a notion of what all of these things of, let's call it high makam.

[Vir Das]

Yeah.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Look like. And you are told implicitly or explicitly you're not that. Yeah, but. And I'm sure you do you have sisters.

[Vir Das]

I do. I have another sister.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah.

[Vir Das]

Yeah.

[Hasan Minhaj]

So I have a sister as well. There are things that I saw them, both men and women growing up. The way they had to pluck their eyebrows or trim their arm hair or feel a certain way about the way their body looks in relation to other people, which is literally your physical standing.

[Vir Das]

Sure.

[Hasan Minhaj]

That I've grown up and I feel a tremendous sense of pride. And I think our eyebrows are beautiful. I think the thickness of our hair is wonderful. Just all these things.

[Vir Das]

Yeah.

[Hasan Minhaj]

And yeah. I think the fuzziness on your arm is cute and I'm attracted to it. And when I dream of beauty, I see it in that vantage point.

[Vir Das]

You see an Indian woman when you close your eyes and you think of a beautiful woman. So do I.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Correct. And so the feeling that I get when you arrive in Montreal or if a singer is now performing here is second grade. Me sees value in that. And now 39 year old me sees value in that. I can't shake that. It's in me.

[Vir Das]

And we are both, at some level the bridge of this. I mean, soft power is a very peddled around word.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah.

[Vir Das]

But India does have a soft power. It does have a cultural power that's on the rise, you know, and we both are the two ends of that bridge. You know, if an Indian artist plays Coachella, Indians from India aren't showing up. You gotta show up.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yes. Correct.

[Vir Das]

Right, yes. The diaspora has to show up.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yes.

[Vir Das]

And so that Indian culture goes over this bridge and then it's on you to be the guardian of that culture as well. Much like when a guy comes over, it's on us, you know, but it's still the same culture. And we owe it to be the most updated version of that culture that we're both bridging.

[Hasan Minhaj]

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[Vir Das]

Hey, can I be real for a second? All right, here we go. I don't think we are meant to watch our own lives and doing it on social media is really us up. I think human beings are meant to watch other people's lives and that's what we should use social media for. Don't reflect on your own life and watch your own life. Watch another life and judge that life. Why be a monk when you can be a bitch? It's so much more fun. Maybe you don't want to know you're sitting there going oh, does my life not deserve likes? Am I boring? Am I not traction worthy? Am I not interesting? Maybe the answer to all three is yes, by the way. And you're not supposed to know, and that's okay. Also, somebody taking an interest in your reel doesn't actually make you interesting. I saw a dude brushing his teeth with a shoe brush the other day. Hey, can I be real for a bit or.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Here we go.

[Vir Das]

We need to stop idolizing people on the Internet. Please stop. Your admiration should be like your asshole. Only people close to you should get it. All right? And it's easy to do it in the comments, right? We slay love. Yes. Queen, king, mother, father, loving, taking, giving, serving. But don't go all in on somebody just because your respect has been chronicled by the Internet and you don't want people to question your judgment when they turn out to be human. We worship four types of people. There are politicians, there are artists, there are rich people, and then there is status.

[Hasan Minhaj]

This is what I mean, bro. You're from the future.

[Vir Das]

I.

[Hasan Minhaj]

This is what America is struggling with right now.

[Vir Das]

It's an Instagram video. I don't know if it's. It's just, you know, you wake up and you think of things and you put them out. But have you met somebody that you idolized on Instagram ever?

[Hasan Minhaj]

I mean, I'm 39 years old. No, no, exactly. I mean, I'm a little. I'm a little bit too old for that.

[Vir Das]

But any of my heroes that I've met, I don't think I've interacted with on social media very, very much. They've just been my heroes, and I've gotten to meet them. So I don't know what you're idolizing. Okay. Like, your comedy has thought to it, and it has depth to it. And I think we all know when an audience member shows up with a deep emotional connection to something you have said, perhaps ironically or perhaps unironically, and you're a little uncomfortable saying that's a. A version of me. And in the telling of that I was being mischievous or I was, and this means a lot to you.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yes.

[Vir Das]

But please know that I'm deeply flawed and up.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Right.

[Vir Das]

And I'm not a thing to. To admire. Does that make sense?

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yes. Yes. You're this setting of expectations. America is struggling with it.

[Vir Das]

Explain, please.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Hero worship in regards to politicians.

[Vir Das]

Okay.

[Hasan Minhaj]

You will legitimately read headlines that say, this is the future voice we need. Like these very emphatic totalitarian statements about a. A senator or someone who's running for president, okay? It very much is framed that way. Celebrity worship. This is why so and so let us down. And we can run through the litany of American celebrities that have gone through this kind of machine, okay? But it is this absolutism and pedestal that has been created that has created this disappointment. And I'm sure in India, being a country of a billion plus people, it's that times 6 of what we have in America. Everything gets. The volume gets turned up on those things. That's what I mean by you can see the tea leaves and you can see the future because that is what, through entropy, America can become.

[Vir Das]

I mean, look, I'm speaking in an Indian context, right?

[Hasan Minhaj]

But.

[Vir Das]

But I do think. I don't know, I do see politically it kind of is becoming religion without the religiosity. But I do think in India we have faith, you know, and that's a big part of our worship quota goes to faith.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Faith.

[Vir Das]

Is America strong on faith? And would it be better to return to faith and not put it in, you know, these people?

[Hasan Minhaj]

I would say there is a stronger connection to faith in India. Yeah, I would say that. And I don't know why that is. Why do you think that is? I think I have a theory. My theory is that your world in life is such a miracle.

[Vir Das]

Yeah.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Getting from point A to point B, you see the sliding doors of destiny, literally on your way to school, to work, to your challah, to your chacha's house, that you are like, I'll catch a blessing in any which way I can from a mandir, from a masjid, from eating this badam, I will. Please, please, may destiny be on my side. There's a humility to it. People criticize it, but I think that there is a real practical recognition of.

[Vir Das]

The.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Dynamic range that life has.

[Vir Das]

I would add to that that I don't think it's by virtue of circumstance. I think.

[Hasan Minhaj]

But, yeah, I mean, I could be wrong. Please elucidate.

[Vir Das]

I think faith in India affects circumstance more than by virtue of circumstance.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Explain.

[Vir Das]

I think a huge part of our community is based on faith. And I think tangible blessings come from intangible faith in India. So I don't think you're walking out going, someone give me a leg up. You know, I think you're walking out going, I prayed this morning, and either I'll give somebody a leg up or I have a place. Yeah, you know, Yeah, I have a place of strength. I think that's what it is. Like, okay. My grandfather was a Buddhist Leader. Okay, Right. And so it's pretty cool. Yeah. I grew up in a house of chanting all day long. And anyone who had freshly come into chanting was coming from a place of some sort of fresh trauma sometimes. So maybe they were sick or maybe they had a personal tragedy and they would wait for my grandfather's counsel. And every time he sat with them, you know, I see them outside and I'm like, what's going on? And like, I remember a lady waiting in our. In our house. And I'm like, what's happening? Why are you here? To see Baba. That's what I called him. And she's like, I'm not sure how long I have. I'm ill. Right. Which is a weird thing to say to a 12 year old, right. Or a 13 year old. And I was like, what are you doing? And she's like, I'm just here to be, you know, he's my place, you know, so he's not actually doing anything for her. It's just a place of strength to go to. So I think that's a big part of it as well.

[Hasan Minhaj]

It's beautiful. I'm going to end with this one. This one's a little bit emotional, but it's the meaning of home. You wrote this. I've lived in. You read this.

[Vir Das]

Okay, I've forgotten. I've lived in Dehradun, Lagos, Delhi, Noida, Galesburg, Chicago, Boston, New York. Go on Mumbai. I've never owned a home. I still don't. Is that up? By any Indian metric of common sense, I've missed out on adulting. I have zero roots, no safety net, no security. However, I can pack up and leave tomorrow. I'm debt free. Obligation free. Some would call this zero. Shackles, too. I don't owe anyone a goddamn thing. Depending on who you are, I've either seriously messed up my life or avoided messing up a life. Really depends on what you think the word home means.

[Hasan Minhaj]

I mean this lovingly. As your friend, two things buy a house. Number one, bro. This reads like someone who's not married. This is like a 26 year old being like, what am I but just my feet and my back.

[Vir Das]

I lucked out crazy. I have a wife who is a world traveler and a force of nature. And she's just like, we'll go, okay? We'll pack our bags and we'll go where we need to.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Because I could only imagine how wifey read this. If I wrote this, Bina would be like, where's home you talking about? Like, we built a home. Together.

[Vir Das]

We don't own any property. We've rented, renting. Yeah, we rent in Mumbai and we lived in Goa for five years. My wife's. I mean, she's a real one. She's a real one and she's also.

[Hasan Minhaj]

I have to meet her.

[Vir Das]

Yeah, she's. She's the air in the room. She's the free spirit in the room, you know? So I kind of lucked out that way. I have this wife who doesn't love brands, just wants to travel, only wants to do concerts and eat great food and see the world.

[Hasan Minhaj]

That's beautiful.

[Vir Das]

Yeah.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Where is home for you then? It's all, oh, that's great.

[Vir Das]

That's it. It's all, wherever we are. That's fine. I've lived in. I've been with Chivani since 2008. Eight apartments, nine apartments in that time.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Man, that's beautiful. What a real one. Shout out to Shivani. Yeah, Shivani. I hope we meet one day. This is really beautiful, man. Hey, thank you for doing this, ladies and gentlemen.

[Vir Das]

I appreciate you, buddy. Thank you so much.

[Hasan Minhaj]

If you haven't subscribed to Lemonada Premium yet, now's the perfect time. Because guess what? You can listen completely ad free. Plus you'll unlock exclusive bonus content like Halle Berry on how to be a good partner during menopause or Mehdi Hassan on the dumbing down of media clips you won't hear anywhere else. Just tap that subscribe button on Apple Podcasts or head to lemonadapremium.com to subscribe on any other app. That's lemonautopremium.

[Vir Das]

Com.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Don't miss out.