I Begged Alex Honnold to Stop Climbing

Summary

Podcast Summary: "I Begged Alex Honnold to Stop Climbing"

Podcast: Hasan Minhaj Doesn't Know
Host: Hasan Minhaj (Marc Maron in transcript, but context says Hasan Minhaj; assuming it's a guest host or a transcript mixup)
Guest: Alex Honnold
Date: February 25, 2026
Duration: Approx. 52 minutes (excluding ads and credits)

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Episode Overview

This episode features comedian Hasan Minhaj in a wide-ranging, curiosity-driven conversation with legendary free solo climber Alex Honnold. The main theme: What drives a person to confront fear and risk death—voluntarily, repeatedly, and in full public view? Minhaj, with humor and humility, explores the psychology, ethics, and culture behind Honnold’s daredevil feats, as well as their implications for personal growth, family, and the environment.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why Risk Death? The Psychology of Free Soloing

• Opening Question: Minhaj jokes that everyone, especially Alex’s loved ones, wants him to please stop climbing without ropes ([02:20]).
  • Honnold: “No, obviously not.” ([02:20])
• Fear and Perception:
  • Honnold admits he feels fear but claims it’s context-specific—he’s only comfortable when he knows he’s in control ([05:12]).
  • Quote: “Most people that say they're afraid of heights aren't really afraid of heights, per se. They're afraid of falling and getting hurt, which is totally understandable.” – Honnold ([05:05])
• Ethics of Spectacle: Discussion about public fascination and the ethics of marketing death-defying climbs ([11:21]–[13:32]).
  • Honnold critiques Netflix’s framing and expresses discomfort with the “deathwatch” angle, but accepts it as part of the spectacle.
  • Quote: “I'm not gonna do a thing where I think I'm gonna die on TV. That'd be insane.” – Honnold ([13:32])

2. Questions Even a 5-Year-Old Would Ask (But Also Grown-Ups) ([07:44])

• Minhaj (and his son) ask Honnold basic (but fascinating) questions:
  • Why No Rope? – Honnold: “No, I chose not to bring it. But I do mostly use a rope.” ([07:54])
  • Bathroom habits? – Honnold candidly shares “serious emergencies” mid-climb, including one-handed dump-taking ([08:13]).
  • What happens if you sneeze? – “You sneeze. … Do you ever just fall over because you sneezed?” ([10:09]-[10:23])
  • Nightmares of Falling? – Honnold: “I actually never remember my dreams. I remember a dream like, once a year.” ([10:31])
• Climbing Above the Clouds: Honnold describes the sensation as “one of the coolest things in climbing … it feels like infinite beneath you.” ([09:42])

3. The “Deathwatch” Dilemma and Public Fascination

• Minhaj struggles with the guilt of wanting to watch a potentially fatal event, likening it to watching contact sports ([12:19]-[13:47]).
• Honnold’s take: For him, the climb is not a true gamble—he only attempts things he feels “100% confident” he’ll survive.

4. Tom Cruise, Daredevils, and American Spectacle ([06:01]-[15:23])

• Banter around Tom Cruise’s stunt work in Mission Impossible and the perceived authenticity of movie stunts versus real feats.
  • Honnold: “Narrowly avoiding death is … not the hallmark of a great climber. Great climber would be like, looks happily in control and has a good time and then gets to the top.” ([06:45])
• Tracing American fascination with daredevils—from Niagara tightrope walkers to wing-walkers to Copperfield’s illusions.
• Honnold hopes people find inspiration in human potential and craft, not just the spectacle ([15:39]-[16:12]).

5. Edge of Inspiration: Why He Climbs

• For Honnold, it’s simple: “I just love going rock climbing.” No deeper message required ([16:36], [16:49]).

6. Risk, Confidence, and the Limits

• Confidence vs. Recklessness: Honnold distinguishes between self-knowledge and bravado—he knows what he cannot do ([13:51]-[14:15]).
• Parachutes and Safety: Despite expectations, parachutes aren’t practical for most climbs; Honnold has tried skydiving but disliked it and found it riskier than climbing ([19:02]-[19:44]).

7. Family, Relationships, and Risk Communication ([20:15]-[21:18])

• Minhaj asks how Honnold justifies his lifestyle to his partner and kids.
  • Honnold compares it to other high-risk jobs (firefighters, military) but says he does so “as carefully as I can.”

8. What Scares Alex Honnold?

• Surprisingly, not much: Neither heights, nor city life, nor woods, nor wild animals cause intense fear. More everyday worries (toddler escaping crib, kid’s birthday parties) rate higher ([21:25]-[22:56]).
  • Nuclear war is a “7,” but a solo kids’ party is an “8.”
  • Public speaking used to terrify him: “At age 22, I probably would have killed myself rather than do stand up comedy.” ([22:57]-[23:12])

9. Getting Older, Getting Wiser ([26:47]-[29:08])

• Honnold shares lessons learned at 40:
  • Prioritizing recovery, diet, and smarter training.
  • Regrets “Cookie Monster” days in a van fueled by sugar and no stretching ([28:33]-[28:41]).
  • He hopes and expects to keep climbing (in some form) into old age ([29:00]).

10. The “Inspiration Industrial Complex” ([30:42]-[33:36])

• Minhaj needles Honnold about giving inspirational talks to finance/tech bros.
  • Honnold’s real hope: People channel the takeaway into their own passions, not dangerous copycats.
  • Quote: “Climbing is really self-limiting … If you haven’t devoted your whole life to learning how to rock climb … you can’t just go do that.” ([31:52])
  • Audiences walk away motivated to sign up for marathons, start gardens, not necessarily to free solo.

11. Nature vs. The City ([33:36]-[34:46])

• Honnold finds city routines repetitive compared to the “newness” of wild places: “In a city, you’re just always doing something that someone else has already done … In the west you can routinely do things that no human has ever done before.” ([33:53]-[34:46])

12. Climate Change: What He’s Seen and What He’s Doing ([35:02]-[37:27])

• Honnold shares first-hand witness to rapid glacier recession in Alaska and the Alps.
• Argues that the biggest obstacle to climate action is urban detachment from nature.
• His work: Through the Honnold Foundation, supports solar projects globally, focusing on human and environmental benefit ([40:06]-[41:18]).
  • Over $13 million invested in 30+ countries.

13. Solar Boom and Green Energy Policy ([42:40]-[44:06])

• Solar tech prices are plummeting, but U.S. adoption lags due to politics.

14. The Pull of Exploration; Space vs. Earth ([37:27]-[39:42])

• Honnold is torn on billionaire space exploration—values the frontier spirit, but sees more urgent needs on Earth.
• Quote: “Anywhere else we go in the solar system is worse than Earth … so you’re kind of like, why not focus on exploring [here]?” ([39:29])

15. Campgrounds, Small Talk, and the Myth of Fear ([47:04]-[51:13])

• Neither the woods nor wild animals scare Honnold; he finds city campgrounds (KOA) sketchier than remote logging roads.
• He admires indigenous comfort with nature and argues that most urban fears of “the wild” are culturally learned, not innate.

16. Red Carpet Insecurity ([51:31]-[52:23])

• Minhaj teases Honnold’s discomfort at red carpet events; Honnold is unbothered: “I don’t think I’m going to be spending a lot of time on a red carpet.” ([51:48])

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Notable Quotes & Moments, with Timestamps

• “No, obviously not.” – Honnold’s deadpan refusal to stop climbing ([02:20])
• “I probably would have killed myself rather than do stand-up comedy. Like straight up.” – Honnold on public speaking ([02:56], [22:57])
• “Narrowly avoiding death is … not the hallmark of a great climber.” – Honnold on Tom Cruise stunts ([06:45])
• “What’s better than pooping your pants? I think Edgiardia for one of them.” – Honnold on climbing emergencies ([08:32])
• “I just love going rock climbing.” – Honnold, asked why he puts himself at risk ([16:36])
• “Climbing is really self-limiting … you can’t just go do that.” – Honnold on copycat fears ([31:52])
• “I mean, Earth is pretty great.” – Honnold on why fleeing to Mars isn’t the answer ([39:29])
• On risk and family: “It's like, I'm doing a thing that I love to do. I'm providing for the family. … I'm doing it as carefully as I can.” ([21:18])
• On inspiration: “I just lay out, like, here are the things that I'm passionate about … People can cherry pick the nuggets.” ([33:08])

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Segment Timestamps

• [02:20] — Minhaj’s “Will you stop?” intro, Honnold’s one-word answer
• [03:58] — Rocknasium memories and early climbing stories
• [07:44] — “Questions from a Five-Year-Old (and Me)” rapid-fire segment
• [11:21] — Marketing the Taipei 101 climb, ethics of spectacle on TV
• [15:39] — “What draws people to these types of events?”
• [22:57] — What scares Honnold? Public speaking > heights or death
• [26:47] — Honnold on life, health, and what 40 taught him
• [30:42] — The “Inspiration Industrial Complex”
• [33:47] — City vs. nature: existential differences
• [35:02] — Climate change impacts and advocacy
• [40:06] — The Honnold Foundation and global solar projects
• [47:04] — Community, loneliness, and living in the wild as a climber
• [51:31] — Red carpet awkwardness and loving what you do for a lifetime

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Conclusion

This wide-ranging conversation fuses deep curiosity and humor to explore the limits of fear, self-confidence, and the pursuit of passion. Honnold emerges as a grounded, self-aware risk-taker, thoughtful about the ethical questions his feats raise, and deeply committed to giving back through environmental action. The episode delivers not just insight into extreme climbing, but also unexpected wisdom for anyone—in or out of their comfort zone—seeking meaning, courage, and adventure.

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For more information on Alex Honnold’s charity, visit Honnold Foundation. For ad-free, bonus podcast content, visit Lemonada Premium.

Transcript

[Marc Maron]

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[Alex Honnold]

No, obviously not.

[Marc Maron]

Alex Honnold achieved maybe the most incredible physical feat in all of human history, climbing a 3,000 foot vertical granite wall with no rope. Dude, it took me six months just to work up the courage to watch Free Solo. And if that film didn't give you a panic attack, Alex gave you another chance when he climbed Taipei 101 live on Netflix. No rope, no net, and at one point, no hands. In a country filled with people terrified of objectively safe things, it is wild to see Alex's lack of fear of something that is objectively terrifying. So I sat down with the world's most famous climber to talk about what he's actually afraid of.

[Alex Honnold]

I probably would have killed myself rather than do stand up comedy. Like straight up.

[Marc Maron]

How he thinks about the ethics of marketing his Taipei climb as a death defying spectacle.

[Alex Honnold]

I'm not gonna do a thing where I think I'm gonna die on tv. That'd be insane.

[Marc Maron]

And I asked the kinds of deep, meaningful questions that make this show so essential. How do you pee and poop when you climb? We also worked on his red carpet poses. Because the only thing more unforgivable than El Capitan is the Getty Images database. That shit is forever. Fuck you, Ronnie. Hurry right away. No delay. Stop ship. Make your daddy glad to have had such a laugh. You and I were both norc. You grew up in Sacramento. I grew up in Davis. Look, people in the comments that want to parse through the details. When people say I say I'm from Sacramento, they're like, oh, you're from Davis. I'm like, dude, It's. It's a 12 mile difference. Yeah, just relax. Like I can see this. The skyline of Sacramento from Mesquite suburbia too.

[Alex Honnold]

It's the same upbringing.

[Marc Maron]

Totally.

[Alex Honnold]

Like.

[Marc Maron]

And you and I were both trench babies from NorCal and we both came up going to birthday parties at Rocknasium in Davis, California.

[Alex Honnold]

Yeah, I actually went on a school field trip there when I was a. I was a child. That was the first time I ever climbed as a rock. Nasamian and Davis.

[Marc Maron]

So describe to people what Rocknasium is for those who haven't had the blessing to go there.

[Alex Honnold]

Rockium is a very old climbing gym, though I. I've hear that it's changed since my childhood, though. I haven't been to the new version, but I think it's pretty scrappy. But it's kind of like an original old school climbing gym. Yeah, but you know, I mean, it was enough to give me a taste of climbing and then actually I didn't get into it until a different climbing gym opened in Sacramento closer to my Home when I was 10. And so then I started going there regularly and.

[Marc Maron]

But that moment at Rock Nasium, did you fall in love? Were you like I loved?

[Alex Honnold]

Well, yeah, I always loved climbing. But the thing is, even without the Rock Nasium, I love climbing trees and buildings and, you know, climbing on stuff. I just loved climbing.

[Marc Maron]

How did you have that moment at Rocknasium or at the other climbing gym in Sacramento that shall not be named, where you learned to be courageous? But I went to that same climbing gym, and I'm a coward.

[Alex Honnold]

Are you? Or maybe you just didn't love it as much as I did.

[Marc Maron]

No, I'm still. I'm. No, I am. I am. I'm. I'm afraid of heights. Like the high dive at Manor Pool, the public pool in Davis.

[Alex Honnold]

What slides.

[Marc Maron]

Super scary.

[Alex Honnold]

Are you afraid of heights or are you afraid of getting injured?

[Marc Maron]

Both.

[Alex Honnold]

Because, I mean, so most people that say they're afraid of heights aren't really afraid of heights, per se. They're afraid of falling and getting hurt, which is totally understandable.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Alex Honnold]

And, you know, I don't want to get hurt. I'm afraid of falling, getting hurt. It's just that in certain circumstances, I feel very comfortable. You know, I feel confident that I'm not going to fall, and so it's not scary.

[Marc Maron]

Is there stuff that us normies do that freaks you out, that you're like, how the. Do people do this every day?

[Alex Honnold]

Why not? I mean, there are tons of aspects of city life. I mean, we're in New York City. You're sort of like, there are a lot of aspects of city life that to an outside observer would be like, this is so sketchy. Sketchy meaning dangerous, with just, like, traffic and, like, crossing things and, like, so much movement, like bike messengers zipping past with like, no. Seemingly no rhyme or reason to it. And you're like, this feels dangerous to somebody who's not used to it, and yet for somebody who lives here, it's totally normal.

[Marc Maron]

Have you ever seen a dead person before?

[Alex Honnold]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And did that make you afraid of death?

[Alex Honnold]

No, but it does remind you of the. The frailty of the human body. You know, I mean, it is always very sobering. You're sort of like, the first time

[Marc Maron]

I was exposed to free solo climbing was in an incredible documentary film. I think you know what I'm talking about. The rest of the world knows what I'm talking about. I'm of course, talking about Mission Impossible 2. Now. Is it humbling knowing that an actor could do what you do? So Easily.

[Alex Honnold]

Well, so I know the guy that did the stunts for this and he is actually kind of better than me. He is really, really good. This guy. Run God from Yosemite. Wait, wait, who? Ron? He's just like a.

[Marc Maron]

The. Are you talking about? That's Tom Cruise.

[Alex Honnold]

Well, I'm pretty sure Tom Cruz didn't actually climb that part, bro.

[Marc Maron]

Have you not heard that Tom Cruise does all of his own stunts?

[Alex Honnold]

Well, I don't think he does all of them, but I mean, this is so cool.

[Marc Maron]

But you mean he doesn't do all of them? Every movie that I watch that's a Tom Cruise movie is Basically me paying $15 to see if Tom Cruise will live or die. Is he a better climber than you?

[Alex Honnold]

Well, I mean, you would argue that he almost fell off the cliff a couple times in that clip. So that doesn't really scream great climber, you know, I mean like narrowly avoiding death. It's like not the hallmark of a great climber. Great climber would be like, looks happily in control and has a good time and then gets to the top. But that is really freaking cool.

[Marc Maron]

But I haven't seen it framed that way. That's really interesting that you framed it that way. The fact that he did that fall means he's not that great.

[Alex Honnold]

Yeah, I mean, if somebody almost falls to their death and then miraculously survives, you're like, that's not a hallmark of greatness, you know, that's kind of like, oh, wow, he like narrowly dodged the bullet. I love that. Talk your shit, Alex, you know? Yeah, well, I just, I don't know if Tom wrote that scene himself.

[Marc Maron]

He for sure approved that.

[Alex Honnold]

Yeah, for sure he did. He's like, this is sick.

[Marc Maron]

I mean, people have a very childlike wonder with what you do because it doesn't comport with what I guess people generally do in their day to day life. But I want to ask you questions almost like a five year old. So this next segment is called Questions from a five Year Old, but also Me. Okay, so these are real questions from my 5 year old that I also agreed on. I'm like, yeah, it's a good question.

[Alex Honnold]

All right, you ready? Love it. I have a 4 year old. I'm like, let's, let's see. Great.

[Marc Maron]

My son was asking, why don't you wear a rope? Did you forget it?

[Alex Honnold]

No, I chose not to bring it. But I do mostly use a rope.

[Marc Maron]

Okay. How do you pee and poop when you climb?

[Alex Honnold]

You just pee and poop.

[Marc Maron]

You shit your pants?

[Alex Honnold]

I've Never actually shit in my pants. But I've had a lot of like serious emergencies while rock climbing. Yeah, you just like fricking go. But your nature is that doesn't matter. You just make sure you're not impacting other climbers.

[Marc Maron]

You just let it run down your leg. Like when you're at a public pool kind of.

[Alex Honnold]

No, no, A little different. But then other than some drastic. I mean there's been like one handed hanging off the side of a cliff, taking a dump.

[Marc Maron]

You've done that?

[Alex Honnold]

Yeah, a couple times. I'm moving things, you know, when things go sideways.

[Marc Maron]

So you were doing what?

[Alex Honnold]

What?

[Marc Maron]

Tom Cruise is doing a Mission Impossible too, but you were dropping a number two.

[Alex Honnold]

Yeah, a couple times. I mean, you know, when it happens, it happens. What's better than pooping your pants? I think Edgiardia for one of them.

[Marc Maron]

So you pull down your Patagonia baggies with your Hanes cotton boxers. You pull that down.

[Alex Honnold]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

And you just let it rip.

[Alex Honnold]

Yeah. You make sure you're off route and then you make sure that it's gonna land somewhere that's like. Okay. And then you just. Yeah. Go off the side of the cliff.

[Marc Maron]

Do you bring snacks?

[Alex Honnold]

Always.

[Marc Maron]

Do you ever wish you brought more snacks?

[Alex Honnold]

Often.

[Marc Maron]

What if you get tired but you're

[Alex Honnold]

not done yet then, you know, I mean, depending on how tired and how close you are to being done, you either push through and sort of learn something about yourself or you retreat and go home. Do you sleep up there sometimes? Yeah, yeah, just this fall. I spent six days on the wall on like a thing. You sleep up there sometimes. I mean, it's obviously more fun to do something in a day and go down and sleep in the van. It's more comfortable. But when it makes sense, you sleep

[Marc Maron]

on the wall and you're not afraid of like falling asleep and then rolling off the side of the cliff.

[Alex Honnold]

You're normally backed up like you're tied into something so that if the whole portaledge, like if the cot thing that you're sleeping on collapsed during the night, you, you wouldn't die. You'd be connected to the wall. Okay. You have like backups for the different things.

[Marc Maron]

Do you ever climb higher than the clouds?

[Alex Honnold]

I have climbed above the clouds quite a lot actually. I love that question. I mean, that is one of the coolest things in climbing is when you're above a cloud layer and so it feels like infinite beneath you. And you're like. It's pretty cool. What's that like? It's amazing. I Mean, it's kind of like being above the ocean or something, but. Yeah. I mean, routinely, if you're on the top of something and the clouds are low, it just feels like infinite cloud beneath you. And you're like, up on some mountain, you're like, this is sick. Yeah, it's really cool.

[Marc Maron]

Is it scary when you look down?

[Alex Honnold]

Sometimes. But in general, no. I love the view. I mean, that's kind of half the point.

[Marc Maron]

What happens when you sneeze?

[Alex Honnold]

You sneeze?

[Marc Maron]

You don't lose grip?

[Alex Honnold]

No. I mean, do you. Do you ever just fall over because you sneezed?

[Marc Maron]

Dude, when I sneeze and I'm on the 95, I'm like, fuck, I'm gonna crash into someone.

[Alex Honnold]

Well, that might be a little different because you jerk a little bit, but

[Marc Maron]

it's the same thing. I have grip on something.

[Alex Honnold]

No, but that's different because.

[Marc Maron]

What do you mean, that's different?

[Alex Honnold]

Well, because if you jerk your wheel, the wheel moves. But if you're holding onto a thing and you jerk a little bit, your hand isn't going to shoot off of it. You know what I mean? You would just, like, squeeze it harder.

[Marc Maron]

Do you have nightmares about falling and dying?

[Alex Honnold]

I actually never remember my dreams. I remember a dream like, once a year.

[Marc Maron]

I have dreams about that all the time.

[Alex Honnold]

Do you? Yeah, maybe it's not a climber.

[Marc Maron]

So you've never had that where you, like and then you jerk up?

[Alex Honnold]

Literally never.

[Marc Maron]

In all seriousness, let's talk about Taipei 101. All right. Recently, you were part of an experiment on Netflix. They wanted to see how many people would watch a man possibly die. It went great. Millions of people around the world tuned in. And you're here with me and you're alive. How long had you planned free solo climbing? Type A 101?

[Alex Honnold]

Well, I first scouted the building in 2013, I think, actually, for a different TV thing that fell apart. And so I kind of knew that it was possible. I played on the building a little. I was excited about it. I was like, that's cool. Like, I think I could do this thing. But then never got the opportunity. So I've been kind of sitting on it for 12, 13 years or whatever.

[Marc Maron]

How did you feel about the marketing? Because the marketing Netflix had for it was just like, watch a man, dude.

[Alex Honnold]

I saw the trailer. I was like, oh, my God. It makes me feel a little sick. The fre. Freaking crazy spiraling drone shot down the corner of the building. I was like, that is intense. But I'm kind Of like, you know, I mean, they're trying to sell a show. I'm like, I don't care. Like, even.

[Marc Maron]

Even the shots like with your kids, they were just like, watch him hug his children one last time.

[Alex Honnold]

I didn't even notice. And I probably didn't see it quite that way. I was probably like, cute little girl. So I was like, oh, so cute.

[Marc Maron]

Because the way I'm watching it, I'm like, he could lose his chill. He has two small children.

[Alex Honnold]

Yeah, I see that as I have two small children. But I'm gonna undertake this climbing expedition that's only one week long where I have great self service. The whole time I'm kind of like, versus going to. You know, because I've done other TV climbing expeditions where I go to, like, eastern Greenland for six weeks or I go to the Arctic and, you know, like, climb anyway. All these types of things where you're like, in remote places in a tent for a month at a time. You're like, that obviously takes a way bigger toll on your family.

[Marc Maron]

How do you analyze this ethically? Because I see it with this weird triangulation. There's you that's climbing this building with no rope. So you are free solo climbing a very tall building. Then it's being televised. So it's this weird thing of, hey, come watch. MAN on wire. So now we're all collectively watching you. So I feel like a piece of shit watching you do this. I'm oddly titillated by this. I feel guilty watching this. So I'm processing all of it.

[Alex Honnold]

Honestly, I think you're experiencing a lot more than I'm experiencing. I'm just like, I get the opportunity to do a cool thing, I'm going to do a cool thing, not overthink it.

[Marc Maron]

So you see it the same way boxers see it. Like when I go to boxing or UFC matches, I'm watching two dudes fuck each other up, then I'm watching them get each other like that, right? And then the promoter is like, you. You two beat the fuck out of each other. And I'm like, someone's getting fucked here.

[Alex Honnold]

Yeah. I think it's different than that because that makes me uncomfortable too, because I'm sort of like. I think partially because the thing with that is that there's always a winner and loser. Like somebody is for sure getting fucked up with the building. You're like, everyone's gonna have a great time. Because I look at the building, oh,

[Marc Maron]

wait, Alex, the winner or loser would be you in this scenario. No, because in Your family.

[Alex Honnold]

I know, but you're just not gonna lose on something like that. You know, it's like, to me, it's like, I mean, obviously, the oh, wait,

[Marc Maron]

you're not gonna lose has to.

[Alex Honnold]

No, the program has to sort of hype it up. It's like, this is dramatic, but I'm sort of like, I'm not gonna do a thing where I think I'm gonna die on TV. Like, no, of course. I feel 100 confident. This is totally chill, you know, so you're not gonna do something where you actually feel like you're rolling the dice on live tv? That'd be insane.

[Marc Maron]

You have Deion Sanders, Chad Ochocinko level confidence.

[Alex Honnold]

Well, it's not confident. I mean, I love it. No, but the thing is, is, like, there's some things, you know, you can do, and then there are other things I know I can't do. And in the climbing world, there are tons of things that I can't do. Like, I can't climb the hardest route in the world. I can't climb the hardest boulders in the world. Like, I can't, you know, I couldn't compete at the Olympics in climbing, which is, you know, in LA28, there'll be Olympics for climbing. You know, there are all these things I can't do as a climber, but there are some things that I know I can do as a climber and. And I feel confident doing this.

[Marc Maron]

Do you feel like you can beat one of the greatest climbers of all time, Tom Cruise, by scaling the Burj Khalifa that he did in a later Mission Impossible?

[Alex Honnold]

Well, so, yeah, I've also scouted the burge and I have climbed on the burge. And what they show in Mission Impossible with him climbing the burge is, like, not actually a thing. Like, he can't climb it that way. Sadly, it doesn't go.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, you mean the way he repels down?

[Alex Honnold]

No, so he repels in. He's like using his suction cups or whatever. He, like, loses one, and then he starts chimneying between little features. He's doing this, like, counter pressure, like, pushing thing. Yeah. And. And it, like, looks cool and it looks like it would work. Doesn't frigging work?

[Marc Maron]

Just to give historical context to this, there's a long tradition of daredevils in America going back over 200 years. We had the tightrope walkers over Niagara falls in the 1800s.

[Alex Honnold]

Cool.

[Marc Maron]

You've never seen this?

[Alex Honnold]

I haven't seen that picture. But, I mean, I know the idea.

[Marc Maron]

Do you ever See this? The Wing walkers in the 1920s.

[Alex Honnold]

Yeah, I've heard of that. That's cool.

[Marc Maron]

Incredible. In the 1980s, David Copperfield flew over the Grand Canyon. Do you ever see this?

[Alex Honnold]

No, I haven't seen this.

[Marc Maron]

Dude, this was fucking incredible. Yeah, they did a close up of his face, so you know it's real.

[Alex Honnold]

I don't totally understand how he's doing that, but I like it.

[Marc Maron]

You mean, how is he? How is he? He's doing it. This is in the 80s. They didn't have green screen then.

[Alex Honnold]

Yeah, that's really cool. I'm not sure if he's doing that, though.

[Marc Maron]

What do you mean you're not sure that he's doing it? He did it and they broadcast it.

[Alex Honnold]

Yeah, you know, I'm not sure.

[Marc Maron]

What do you think draws people to these types of events?

[Alex Honnold]

I mean, it's hard to say. I mean, I think particularly with free. It's hard to say. I mean, I think that what I hope that some people take from it is a reminder that humans can do hard things if they try or something to that effect. You know, that like something around human potential or capabilities. I mean, the same way that like. Have you ever seen the documentary Hero Dreams of Sushi?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Alex Honnold]

Like with, you know, sushi chef, Japanese dude. Freaking. Totally insane.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Alex Honnold]

You watch movie and you're like, this is so incredible. Somebody's devoted their whole life to doing this thing. And he does it so well. Yeah. And so, I mean, I think that. Or the. The film man on Wire. I mean, if he' also a documentary with Petit, like, incredible.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah.

[Alex Honnold]

I mean, I remember watching that being so inspired. And so I think anytime you watch a film where you see somebody devoting their life to a craft and then. And then you know, basically executing that at a very high level, you're kind of like, oh, it's just so inspiring to be reminded of the potential of human effort. And so I think ideally these films, you know, people see it and they come out of it being like, that's so cool. Like, I should try hard at the thing that I care about because, you know, like, I'm capable of more.

[Marc Maron]

What is it about for you?

[Alex Honnold]

Well, I just love going rock climbing.

[Marc Maron]

I mean, it's really that simple.

[Alex Honnold]

I mean, basically, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

It's not like a celebration of the human spirit. It's not. You're not trying to make it represent something more than what it is.

[Alex Honnold]

No, no. I just love going rock climbing. I mean, the thing is, like, it's

[Marc Maron]

the same as you climbing at rock nasium in Davis, California.

[Alex Honnold]

No, I mean, obviously it's more exciting than climbing at the. At the climbing gym, but it's not that far removed, you know, in the same way that we'll have this chat and then I'm gonna go to the climbing gym because, like, I'm in a city and I want to go climbing, so I'm gonna go climb. Right. Um, but if I had the opportunity to go climb the Empire State Building this afternoon or something like that, I probably would, because I'd be like, that would be way cooler than going to the climbing gym today. But though the Empire State Building doesn't go, actually there's no way to climb it.

[Marc Maron]

Why isn't there a way to climb the Empire State Building?

[Alex Honnold]

Just. You just can't. Like, the bricks too small. Like, humans can't do that. Okay. It was climbed a long time ago. So this guy, Alan Robert, the French spider man, the guys sold tons of buildings around the world, but. So Alan Robert sold Empire State Building back in the day.

[Marc Maron]

Did they broadcast it?

[Alex Honnold]

No, no. He. He. Most of the things he's done, he did illegally. Just as like a sort of performance artist just doing his thing just for

[Marc Maron]

the love of the game.

[Alex Honnold]

Yeah. But so then he generally gets arrested. And that's kind of the thing that I've always been unwilling to do is I'm like, yeah, it'd be amazing to climb these buildings, but it's like, it's not really worth doing jail time.

[Marc Maron]

There's a famous quote by George Mallory, who died climbing Mount Everest in 1924. Have you ever seen this quote?

[Alex Honnold]

Yeah, because it's there.

[Marc Maron]

Because it's there. Someone asked him why he was doing it and he said, quote, because it's there.

[Alex Honnold]

Yeah. Though I think that that sounds incredibly flippant. And. And I've read that in context. It's at the end of, like, a long media thing, and he's basically just, like, kind of over it and just gives a throwaway answer, you know, Like, I don't know.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, he was sick of it. He was sick.

[Alex Honnold]

Yeah. I think he was just kind of like, and we're done, you know, like.

[Marc Maron]

Because to me, I was like, that's the laziest excuse ever. Because I. I did that too, when my mom would leave me at home and I would eat, like, a bag of Halloween candy before Halloween, and she's like, why would you do that? And I'm like, because it's there.

[Alex Honnold]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Like, it's in the drawer. What am I going to do? Not eat it?

[Alex Honnold]

Yeah, no, I think, but I mean, but obviously that answer does kind of speak to the, you know, it's like if it's an obvious challenge and you feel capable, it's like you go do the thing.

[Marc Maron]

What's the scariest thing for you right now?

[Alex Honnold]

The scariest? Like. Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

What makes you afraid?

[Alex Honnold]

Oh, that my two year old to get out of the crib one more time and not go to bed? No, I don't know. I mean, just like snakes. No, I don't.

[Marc Maron]

Spiders?

[Alex Honnold]

No.

[Marc Maron]

Ghosts?

[Alex Honnold]

I used to be afraid of some of that stuff. And then just through enough climbing expeditions, now I'm kind of like, ah, you

[Marc Maron]

know, what's the scariest movie you've ever seen?

[Alex Honnold]

Scariest movie?

[Marc Maron]

Scariest movie you've ever seen?

[Alex Honnold]

Well, I don't know. I don't really like scary movies. I don't watch scary movies.

[Marc Maron]

You ever see the Exorcist? No, don't watch it.

[Alex Honnold]

Have you ever skydived? No. So I, I did my eff. Like the, this like your certification for skydiving. I thought I might learn how to base jump, which is like when you jump off cliffs and things with the parachute. Right. Because it kind of makes sense that if you're climbing mountains and you know, free soloing and all that, like, it makes sense to learn how to use a parachute and learn how to fly down and all that kind of stuff.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah.

[Alex Honnold]

But I basically learned just enough to realize that it wasn't for me. I was kind of like, I hated the small planes, I hated the jumping out. I found it all pretty scary. And I also get kind of motion sick in the planes and everything about the experience was just like, not for me. And then I also realized how much I would have to learn to get good at it enough for it to actually be helpful at all. Because you actually have to be quite good at parachuting before you feel safe doing it.

[Marc Maron]

Why don't you wear a parachute when you.

[Alex Honnold]

Well, this is exactly what I'm saying is that it takes a tremendous amount of effort to get good enough at it. So like with Taipei111, let's say on the, on the building, for most of the building, if you fall off, you're just going to hit something. Before a parachute would do anything. It's not like, you know, for a parachute to work, you have to be falling into clean, free space. So ideally you'd be on an overhanging wall. So you're falling away from the wall. Right. And there aren't that many natural walls like that in the world there, there are some, there are some big cliffs and things where you could get enough separation. But in general, on most natural mountains and things, if you fall, you're going to tumble down the mountainside, not fall cleanly into the air.

[Marc Maron]

This is some relationship advice for those of us that are in relationships. How do you explain to your partner, we all want to be seen by our partner, but we also want to be understood and supported. How do you explain to your partner, hey, babe, I got to pursue this. I may die, but please support me.

[Alex Honnold]

I mean, I don't know, is that that dissimilar than. I mean, there are plenty of other professions where people run real risk.

[Marc Maron]

No, no, there's real professions where people die, but they die internally. You understand what I'm saying? They work at kpmg, they work at Deloitte, they work at Accenture, they work with Microsoft Excel macros. They're dying in here slowly, but it's a slow death.

[Alex Honnold]

But they're also professions where people really do take real risks. Like things. Yeah. Firefighters, police, like, I mean, even military type things. I mean, and those are all considered totally normal, mainstream professions, you know, and we celebrate those people sort of rightly as heroes because they're serving the public good. Yeah, but they are risking their life. I'm kind of like, well, I mean, isn't it basically the same conversation? You're like, I'm doing a thing that I love to do. I'm providing for the family. I'm, you know, doing all this and I'm doing it as carefully as I can.

[Marc Maron]

I'm going to list out a series of things that people consider scary. You give me how scary they are from a scale of 0 to 10.

[Alex Honnold]

Okay, okay. 10 being very scary.

[Marc Maron]

10 is super scary. You're having a birthday party for your child. There are 30 kids coming. You will be the only adult person.

[Alex Honnold]

Like an eight or like at least a solid six. I mean, that's, that'd be terrible. Nuclear war, I mean like a seven or something. Seven or like a.

[Marc Maron]

You're telling me nuclear war is lower than a kid's birthday party in your mind?

[Alex Honnold]

Well, the thing is, the kid's birthday party would immediately be like the next hour or two is going to be like hell. Nuclear war, you know, depending on who gets nuked, like, might not actually affect my day to day life. I mean, is that weird? Would you be scared?

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, I'd be pretty horrified.

[Alex Honnold]

Yeah. I mean, well, that's the thing is that horrified is different than scared. And so I would be, I would say, very concerned about the humanitarian act, the, the moral, the ethical, like all these kinds of things. Like, not to say that I'm unconcerned about it. I'm just saying that I wouldn't feel fear. And I think that's an important distinction because I think that a lot of people wrap many things into fear. Like, oh, I'm afraid. And I'm like, well, no, you're uncomfortable with this or that or, you know, you're concerned about these other things. But it's not necessarily like deep physical fear.

[Marc Maron]

What is deep physical fear? What do you mean by that is. Are you talking about specifically? Just to be specific, it's the idea that I may die from this.

[Alex Honnold]

Well, yeah, Fear for my safety. That's funny because, you know, joking about the kids is like, obviously you're not scared for your safety. You're more like scared for your comfort. Or you're sort of like, oh, this is going to be a very uncomfortable situation for the next little while. Yeah. When you just get totally run rough shot over by a bunch of kids.

[Marc Maron]

Yes.

[Alex Honnold]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Total no. Hey, I've been there.

[Alex Honnold]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Trying stand up comedy.

[Alex Honnold]

Oh, that would be terrible to me. Like public speaking. I mean.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, you're just risking public humiliation.

[Alex Honnold]

I know you're for real scared. A lot of people rate that as scarier than death. And I would be one of those people.

[Marc Maron]

I suppose just someone being like, that was mid scares.

[Alex Honnold]

I mean, honestly, now I've had so much practice with public speaking just because of everything, that it's probably less scary than it used to be. But there's a, you know, in my say, at age 22, I probably would have killed myself rather than do stand up comedy. Like straight up, just be like, no, not doing that.

[Marc Maron]

Wait, what? I mean, you'd rather commit suicide than go to Laughs Unlimited in Old Sacramento and do the open mic?

[Alex Honnold]

I would never, ever do that, brother.

[Marc Maron]

Trust me. The talent bar is not very high.

[Alex Honnold]

Doesn't matter.

[Marc Maron]

I made it through the Laughs Unlimited open mic and that's a pretty low bar. Like, I'm not that.

[Alex Honnold]

Yeah, but we have different sorts of gifts. I'm not. That's not for me.

[Marc Maron]

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[Alex Honnold]

Yeah, we're halfway at least.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah. How are you feeling? How's the back?

[Alex Honnold]

Back's great.

[Marc Maron]

Hamstrings.

[Alex Honnold]

I would say the fact that I exercise professionally does keep me in probably better shape than the average like middle aged person.

[Marc Maron]

L4, R4. Okay.

[Alex Honnold]

I don't even know those.

[Marc Maron]

Are Those the, the two. Your spinal column.

[Alex Honnold]

Oh, yeah, they're great.

[Marc Maron]

The discs. L4 and R4. Okay.

[Alex Honnold]

Feel very good.

[Marc Maron]

I think now, now I got you in your feelings about it. Now you're like reassessing. Shoulders good.

[Alex Honnold]

Oh yeah, yeah. Shoulders good.

[Marc Maron]

Knees good.

[Alex Honnold]

Knees are good.

[Marc Maron]

Hamstrings.

[Alex Honnold]

Actually, I just tweaked one of my knees a little.

[Marc Maron]

I knew it, bro. I, I, I, I, I knew it.

[Alex Honnold]

You can't be, it's not like. Actually it's not, it's not damage it bands. No, they're great. Yeah, great. No, in general, I'd say everything is, is really quite good right now. I take care of myself.

[Marc Maron]

So you're generally loose.

[Alex Honnold]

Yeah, yeah.

[Marc Maron]

But you're not as loose as you were at 21, were you?

[Alex Honnold]

Um, probably pretty similar. I mean, if you say loose in terms of like supple, then yeah, I'm probably about as flexible and all that. Um, I really think the biggest difference is recovery and just like how energetic, you know.

[Marc Maron]

What is something that you now understand at 40 that you wish you understood at 20?

[Alex Honnold]

Well, I mean, there are a few things. Like now at 40, I'd say I'm much more on top of all the sort of lifestyle things like recovery and just being smart about like diet and training and lifestyle and whatever. And I just like didn't need to do all that at 20, but now I sort of wish that, that retroactively I'd done all those kinds of things because I just would have been so much better at 20. At 20. I had a bunch of days when I was like living in my van where I'd like be parked somewhere in Yosemite. Let's say I'd eat like a whole flat of Oreos while like binge watching some show and then the next day go do like a speed record on some wall. You know, I basically get all like over psyched, just like eating sugar and like watching some TV thing and then just be like, okay, I'm going to go like do something rad tomorrow and then go do it. I'm kind of like, you know, in retrospect, I probably would have performed better if I'd eaten well and like stretched that day and then gotten done something rad the next day. But I had way more of this, like up and down crazy.

[Marc Maron]

Got it.

[Alex Honnold]

Like, yeah. So I probably could have lived a little smarter.

[Marc Maron]

Damn. So you were just out here living in a van like Cookie Monster meets.

[Alex Honnold]

No, I wasn't. Like 12 years or something. Yeah, yeah. In the van for a very long time. I lived in a freaking Fort Econoline, which is like a not stand up van. Like a little like a plumber type van. Yeah, for 10 years. And so I like didn't stand up in my home for 10 years. It's like pretty. Speaking of back issues, are you still

[Marc Maron]

gonna be climbing at age 80?

[Alex Honnold]

Oh, for sure. I mean, I probably won't be climbing at an elite level and I won't be trying hard things, but yeah, for sure. It's so fun. You should, you know, if you could.

[Marc Maron]

Were you about to say you should do it?

[Alex Honnold]

Well, kind of, yeah. It's like, I just wish you could experience like the joy that I get from it.

[Marc Maron]

Alex, you haven't seen my lowlights from the NBA celebrity All Star game. They're not highlights. They're below the rim, low lights.

[Alex Honnold]

No, it's so. It's so fun. It's just like.

[Marc Maron]

No, I. By the way, I totally get. I'm gonna be doing stand up comedy until my 80s. I will be performing at Rooster T Feathers Comedy Club in Sunnyvale, California, which is next to a tire station. They will have to drag me off stage. There is no green room.

[Alex Honnold]

You just wheel you on and then wheel you back.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah, it's. I don't even think it's handicap friendly. So someone's gonna have to carry me like a. Like a baby and then put me on the stool.

[Alex Honnold]

That's nice. Yeah, no, I mean, that's.

[Marc Maron]

But I get it. I. I would love to continue pursuing what I love to do until the very end.

[Alex Honnold]

Yeah, exactly. I mean I think. And the thing is when you ask will I be climbing? It's like climbing is not that far moved from hiking and sort of scrambling, like being outside. And so there's this whole big range of, of outdoor experience. Like for sure I'll be going on hikes in the mountains my whole life and like scrambling on ridges and like getting to the tops of easy peaks and stuff like that. And so you know, whether or not that's extreme rock climbing, like what you think of as like climbing the side of a building. Like I probably won't do that when I'm 80, but I for sure will be scrambling on mountains.

[Marc Maron]

You know what's so interesting is you and I, our lives could not be more different. But there's something very similar about the life of a comedian and your life as someone who's pursued this industry that kind of doesn't exist. Which is where we were just basically like traveling vagabonds.

[Alex Honnold]

Well yeah, for sure.

[Marc Maron]

Truly you were living in your van. Comedians we live in, we live out of. Yeah. Essentially Hampton Inns or.

[Alex Honnold]

Yeah, you're just like touring and like grinding.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, generally the Lower tier Motel 6 Motels or hotels that are part of the Marriott Bonvoy program. But you have now transitioned to this other phase of your career where you give these talks to people in the white collar industrial world and I call it the inspiration industrial complex. Alex Honnold will fly around the country and or the world to give TED talks, corporate conferences, university talks. You do the circuit. People want to be Inspired. You have 60 minutes.

[Alex Honnold]

Smart people don't want to hear from you.

[Marc Maron]

Smart people don't want to hear from

[Alex Honnold]

what you have to say. But you feel like tech bros really want to hear from.

[Marc Maron]

Yes.

[Alex Honnold]

Finance bros love that.

[Marc Maron]

They fucking love it. Do you ever feel scared or guilty that by giving this speech in front of a bunch of dudes in Patagonia fleeces that they may try to climb Half Dome and falter their death?

[Alex Honnold]

I mean honestly, if you know half of Goldman Sachs goes out on ill fated climbing expedition. Is that so bad? Oh my God, no, no, I'm kidding.

[Marc Maron]

Bars. Alex Honnold aka Luigi 2.0.

[Alex Honnold]

So real, real answer about like sort of copycatty stuff. Because people do ask me this all the time with the film Free Soul. Like but don't you worry that kids are going to do this? And I'm like no, basically I don't. Because climbing it's, it's really self limiting it's like, it's with the kind of thing you can watch a film and be like, that's cool. I'm going to go try that. But if you haven't devoted your whole life to learning how to rock climb, learn how to free solo, you can't just go do that.

[Marc Maron]

You know, the barrier of entry is

[Alex Honnold]

too high is what it's very well. And like, so even if you can, even if you get off the ground, you have to choose to make the next move and choose to make the move after that. And then, you know, Pretty soon you're 8ft off the ground. And every time you make a move, you have to look down at your feet, because moving your feet is, you know, half the. Half the thing for climbing. And each time you look down, you're like, oh, I'm starting to feel kind of high. And if you're not really into it, you can't really climb that high. It's like, you have to. You have to know what you're doing.

[Marc Maron]

When you finish those big kind of longer TED talks, what are you telling them to do?

[Alex Honnold]

Oh, I don't really tell people to do anything, actually. I mean, that's, That's.

[Marc Maron]

What do you think they're looking for?

[Alex Honnold]

Well, I think most people are looking for, like, a kick in the butt to go do what they want to do. Well, at least this is what I found with the free solo tour. So, like, everybody watched the film free solo, and they come out of it. And. And I found this with doing events with audiences after, like, people would always come up and they're like, chitchat. And I found that nobody comes out of it saying, like, I want to go free soling or like, I want to go climbing. They come out of being like, I'm going to sign up for the half marathon that I've been putting off because it seemed, like, too daunting or whatever. Like, I'm going to finally plant my garden that I've been putting off, you know, like, all these, like, random kind of life things. Got it. And I was always like, that's so cool, because. And. And I've taken that attitude into my. My corporate speaking now. Like, whenever I have to give a talk, instead of trying to, like, tell people to do a thing, I just lay out, like, here are the things that I'm passionate about. Here's the way I've done them. Like, this is, you know, this is my story. And then people can kind of cherry pick the nuggets that they want and, and use that however, is useful for them.

[Marc Maron]

I spend my time here in New York. My office is here. I do stand up comedy. This is the Mecca of stand up comedy. So this is my home. This is where I live. This is where I have become the person that I am. But you love nature.

[Alex Honnold]

I.

[Marc Maron]

What am I missing out on by being in this city?

[Alex Honnold]

Oh, my gosh.

[Marc Maron]

Versus being surrounded by trees in nature?

[Alex Honnold]

Everything. I come to New York like a couple times a year, obviously for work things. And, and it is amazing. I mean, New York is so dynamic and there's a lot that I'm impressed by with New York, but I'm like, oh, my God, compared to just open nature. Yeah. It's insane. I mean, I was literally yesterday, I was commuting through New York City and I was like, trudging up the steps out of this very long subway tunnel. Yeah. In this, like, crowd of people. Yeah. And I was just looking down and I was taking one step after another right behind somebody else's steps. I was like, man, in a city, you're just always doing something that someone else has already done. Like that day, you know, you're just doing the same things as everybody. And you know, as a climber or like, or even just out in nature in the west, it's like you can routinely do things that you're like, I don't know if any human has ever done this before, you know, and it's like. And not that everybody needs that or wants that, but it is like, kind of exciting, kind of fun. We were like, oh, this feels new and fresh and different.

[Marc Maron]

Meaning just you taking those footsteps. And those footsteps have never been.

[Alex Honnold]

Yeah, like travel or traverse before. It's not uncommon for me to climb something even just near my home where I'm sort of like, I bet no one has ever been here before. And not, not so much like the summits, because other people go to all the same summits, but you can, like, climb certain routes and then like traverse between them and like, just do little variations, like do new things where you're like, oh, like, nobody's really done this

[Marc Maron]

because you love nature so much. How do you feel about climate change? Because for me and a lot of people, it's. It's tough to keep on top of. We understand it intellectually, but we don't feel it in our day to day life as much. But you're out there.

[Alex Honnold]

Yeah, no, I feel, I mean, that's the thing. As a professional climber, you're like, outdoors all the time. I mean, you do notice. Yeah. I mean, talking about environmental issues and like changing climates, like. Yeah, it's like a whole. I mean, when you go on expeditions to the polar regions, I mean, you see things changing so quickly. You see, you know, I mean, even going on climbing trips in the Alps, like in Europe, you see glaciers retreating so quickly and you're like, oh, it's crazy. Like the, the scope and the scale of change. I mean, I, I did a climate expedition to Alaska two summers ago, I guess. Yeah. There was a show for Disney Plasma, like National Geographic program where we like climb this thing called the Devil's Thumb. Anyway, we got up there and we had photos. Like, not that many people climb the, that particular mountain. It's kind of in the middle of nowhere. And when we got there, we had photos of the wall from like 2014 or something. That doesn't feel like that long ago. And yet in the 10 years that had passed since, you know, people had done this particular thing, the glaciers receded so much that it totally changed the way that you approach the mountain and totally changed the way that you get to the climb. Basically. It just totally changed the whole nature of the mountain. Yeah. And you're kind of like. And these are areas that feel timeless, you know what I mean? Like, when you're looking at these, you know, 4,000 foot granite faces that are like, covered in giant glaciers and the remote Alaskan wilderness, like it feels like beyond time and space. Like it, you know, it feels infinite. Yeah. And then you're like, wow, it's changed so much in one decade that it's like unrecognizable from photos.

[Marc Maron]

But how do you get people to care about a place they'll never go?

[Alex Honnold]

Well, I mean, yeah, I mean, they're, that's. That's kind of the question. I think that's why the US in particular has been so slow to respond to any kind of climate action, like to actually do any kind of environmental things. Because I think so many people live in cities and it's just like hard to break through, like, what they care about. I mean, you know, I mean, one way is helping people understand the direct connection between what happens in these remote places and, you know, the air that they breathe and sort of like ocean health and how that relates to the oxygen that we're breathing every day. And you know, basically it's like the global climate, how that relates to, you know, we're all part of the same ecosystem. We're all, we're all in the same boat together here. You know, like Planet Earth is just like one living system. Right. It's like helping people understand that, you know, I hope would get them to care more about. About nature.

[Marc Maron]

But you're someone who is definitely deeply entrenched in the natural world. I mean, you couldn't argue there's anybody, probably more. You are so in nature. But then there's also these billionaires that are super obsessed with space and traveling to Mars. What do you think about those people that are obsessed with this idea of escaping and climbing out of our immediate atmosphere and going to a new planet the same way you scale buildings and go to these places beyond what normal people have gone to. How do you feel about these billionaires scaling and climbing out of our immediate.

[Alex Honnold]

Out of our orbit. Orbit. Escaping Earth.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, escaping Earth and going to Mars.

[Alex Honnold]

I mean, I'm a little bit of two minds because part of me, you know, sees it as a bit of a waste of resources and a bit of, you know, I just think that there's so many issues that we could face on Earth, you know, to have a tremendously positive environmental impact, a human impact, like, basically help people in need. Like, you know, basically seem like there may be more useful places for the resources to go. On the other hand, I mean, I love exploration. I think there's real value in space exploration because I do think that eventually humans will be traveling throughout the solar system or, you know, the rest of the universe, hopefully. I mean, who knows? And so, you know, I like the aspirational call of, of the frontier, you know, like to go into new places and doing new things. And I think that that pursuing that leads to a lot of technological benefit on Earth. You know, it's like, obviously I use GPS all the time, and I'm sort of like, those are sorts of things that are enabled by satellites and by space travel. And so, so I'm not, like, opposed to it. Yeah. But I do think that people should balance that against, like, what can you do for humans on Earth right now? Kind of like, I don't know, there are a lot of issues at home. Yeah. And it's funny because anywhere else we go to in the solar system is worse than Earth, you know, so you're kind of like, like, it makes sense to try to go to other places. Like it makes sense to explore, but you know, it's going to be way, way worse than here. Right. So you're kind of like, why not focus on exploring. Sure, sure, sure.

[Marc Maron]

Like, do you know how bad the public schools are going to be on Mars?

[Alex Honnold]

Yeah, exactly.

[Marc Maron]

Playground's gonna be pretty Rough.

[Alex Honnold]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Why don't we fix the playground?

[Alex Honnold]

Even the most barren and desolate parts of the earth, or the deepest parts of the ocean, or like anything, they're still teeming with life. And the rest of space, you know, to our knowledge so far, is not. And you're kind of like, well, I mean, Earth is pretty great.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, yeah, totally. And I've, I've done standup comedy in South Dakota and I'm like, this place

[Alex Honnold]

sucks, but it's better than Mars.

[Marc Maron]

That's the crazy part. Yeah. Speaking of trying to help humanity, you have founded the Honnold Foundation. Now, some foundations are sketchy and they can oftentimes be.

[Alex Honnold]

This one is not.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, this one is not sketchy. Now by sketchy again, my definition is billionaire tax avoidance schemes. But yours seems legit. Tell me about it.

[Alex Honnold]

Yeah. So the Honda foundation supports solar projects around the world. Community led solar. I mean, I started I guess in 2012. And yeah, I mean, I think we've given over 10 million to date to, to communities all around the world. So basically because I felt like solar was the, the best way to have both the human and environmental impact, basically, like help human communities in a way that's good for the planet.

[Marc Maron]

So you basically start each year from scratch, you raise this money and then you just give it all away?

[Alex Honnold]

Yeah, yeah, there's no endowment or anything, so we just raise as much as we can every year and we give it all away as quickly as we can. I mean, I give about, I've been given about a third of my income to the Honda foundation every year since, you know, 2012. And for the most part that's pretty much scaled to cover the, the staffing and everything. I mean, because now there's full time staff and we evaluate grants, we take in open call for grant applications around the world. So we get all the best ideas for community solar from all over the world and then we fund the ones that we can. And so basically what I give to the foundation covers the, the cost of the foundation. And then anything that we fundraise just goes straight to projects.

[Marc Maron]

$13 million have been invested over the past 10 years in solar projects in over 30 countries.

[Alex Honnold]

Oh, wow, okay. Yeah, I said over 10. I was like, oh, we're at 13. I guess that's because last year we gave three.

[Marc Maron]

What, what other kind of projects are you involved in in the Honda Foundation?

[Alex Honnold]

It's just solar though sometimes. I mean, the thing is, solar is such a, a broad and sort of scalable technology. It's like some places that means light for the first time, you know, like rural communities. I mean, there's something like 800 million people on Earth without access to power. Yeah. And so just having electricity for the first time can be, you know, game changing. Like being able to charge a mobile phone, being able to light your house after dark, like those are all incredible. Sometimes though, it has to do with like say pumping water or refrigerating, you know, food processing, refrigerating medications, like healthcare types applications. And then there's some more interesting applications. Like we did this like solar powered boat in the Amazon thing, which like we really like to support projects that have sort of secondary and tertiary benefits where you're kind of like, oh, it does this thing, but that also helps all these other ways. And so like solar powered boats in the Amazon are an interesting example because, you know, you're allowing people to transport themselves and their goods more cheaply on the river. They're not having to ship diesel or gasoline around, which is super expensive. When you go like way up river in the Amazon though, when you keep the cost of river transit low, then it keeps people from having to cut roads. And when you cut roads, that's the sort of avenue for illegal mining and deforestation, like illegal timber extraction. And so basically if you keep the river as this primary mode of transit, then you can prevent the cutting of roads which leads to all these other terrible things. So I don't know, it has a lot to do with sort of indigenous sovereignty and protecting the forest.

[Marc Maron]

And I keep reading that we're living through a solar boom right now.

[Alex Honnold]

Oh yeah, it's insane.

[Marc Maron]

But how has the solar boom plugged into your work?

[Alex Honnold]

I mean, we just benefit from the falling cost of solar components, solar modules, like all of it just means that the money that we raise goes further, has a bigger impact on communities. But we're completely technology agnostic. Like basically we're just looking to do the most good that we can for communities and for the environment. And so we're just using consumer goods, you know, like whatever you can buy on the normal market, typically in whatever market we're serving, you know, so it's like if we're supporting some community and say rural South America, it's like whatever they can source there the cheapest, that's still reliable. And, and basically as the costs have fallen, I mean, cost of solar have fallen like more than 90% in the last 10 years or something. It's crazy economies of scale and I mean, there's so much solar being deployed around the world.

[Marc Maron]

Why hasn't it cotton on as a widespread use of power here in the United States of America.

[Alex Honnold]

Dude, Policy. I mean, federal. I mean, you know, look at like, yeah, politics basically is part of it. But the thing is, I mean, the. The most installed capacity over the last several years has been renewables. I mean, solar and wind. So even though it might not be catching on as quickly as it is in other parts of the world, I mean, basically the power that we are currently building is mostly renewable. It's just not as fast.

[Marc Maron]

And so, I mean, you're pretty excited about the future. I'm shocked that I still have to pay a PG&E bill. I'm like, why is this not all just solar?

[Alex Honnold]

Well, I mean, just put solar on your home and I mean, yeah, live. Our house is all electric and. And we have solar, and we basically pay 20 bucks a month. It's like the base flat fee for connection to the grid. You're kind of like, oh, and then I drive electric. And you're kind of like, it's nice to just opt out of the whole system to some extent. I'm like, oh, I paid 20 bucks a month. And it's pretty chill. Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

You are hosting season six of the Planet Visionaries podcast in partnership with Rolex Perpetual Planet Initiative. First of all, congrats on the Rolex sponsorship.

[Alex Honnold]

Thanks.

[Marc Maron]

That's a very interesting corporate sponsor.

[Alex Honnold]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

You know what I mean? Because generally, Rolexes kind of represent two different things. It's like you're gonna climb a mountain. But the people that wear Rolexes usually work on Wall street or they're Indian guys who host podcasts.

[Alex Honnold]

Yeah, but there is a real history with Rolex, with exploration. I mean, you know, from the first big mountaineering expedition, certainly a ton of undersea exploration. I mean, I think Rolex has traditionally supported explorers in that way. And I think now, moving into the, you know, sort of the future, I mean, Rolex has been putting a ton of effort into conservation efforts. I mean, basically, like, as the world has been explored, now it's more about protecting what we have. And so the Rolex Perpetual Planet Initiative has put tons of money into conservation, and so they're supporting the Honda foundation, the work that we're doing with solar around the world, and then hosting Planet Visionaries. It's kind of great because I interview all these scientists that are doing both interesting research and then also interesting conservation work, like trying to protect some of these places. I mean, honestly, it's one of my favorite things that I do because the people I talk to are always so inspiring that it leaves me all fired up. You know how, like, I'm sure you know this too. Like, some work you do kind of drains you, and then other work, like, fulfills you. Yeah. Like, when I do plant a visionaries, I always come out of it all fired up to, like, go work harder and try harder and, like, go train or something.

[Marc Maron]

What is it? Is it the thought leaders or the scientists that fire you up?

[Alex Honnold]

Oh, either. I mean, it's just. I mean, what's funny is that, you know, I always do all the research, like, all this interview prep before each person because they're like, these scientists in some niche field who's doing, like, some, you know, like, deep sea microbes or something. And I'm always like, do I care about deep sea microbes? Like, is like, does that matter? And then I talk to him, and by the end of the interview, I'm always like, deep sea microbes are so cool. I'm like, it's amazing. I learned so much. I'm so interested. It turns out this whole hidden world that I knew nothing about, that's, like, super important.

[Marc Maron]

I mean, you have another podcast just about climbing. Yeah, it's called Climbing Gold.

[Alex Honnold]

Yeah.

[Marc Maron]

Okay. I've heard that climbers that live the life that you live, they have to live a very intense, regimented lifestyle. But what are the traits that climbers have that us normies don't have?

[Alex Honnold]

Oh, I don't. I don't know if there's anything set like that. I mean, climbers are just people who are really into climbing. I mean, I think ultimately the only trait you need is a passion for climbing and a willingness to practice all the time. But the thing is, if you're really into it, then that often means that you wind up living in your vehicle in order to travel and climb full time. And so then, you know, you wind up spending a lot of time camping and time, a ton of time outdoors. That winds up translating into a certain comfort with the natural elements, things like that. You know, you wind up getting worked by nature all the time, but you don't, like, need that to be a passionate climber. Like, all you need is a passion to go rock climbing.

[Marc Maron]

Is it lonely? Is it a lonely life?

[Alex Honnold]

No, because there are a lot of other climbers who are really passionate about it. So even if you're living in your car by yourself and traveling between all these climbing areas, you see the same community in different, different places, and people make the same sort of migration. It's almost like birds, you know, because you go north in the summer when it's hot, you go up to Canada. And in the winter, you go down to the southwest, like to the desert.

[Marc Maron]

Oh, so you'll meet other climbers.

[Alex Honnold]

Yeah. So you climb with other climbers all the time.

[Marc Maron]

Got it. You don't find the woods to be really scary at night?

[Alex Honnold]

No. No. Like, not even a little. I mean, what's there to be scared of?

[Marc Maron]

I mean, it's.

[Alex Honnold]

It's three. There are basically no predators in the

[Marc Maron]

U.S. are you talking about bears, snakes or sex shit? That's why I'm scared of the woods. When I go to campgrounds and I'm like, I'm either scared of birds, snakes or sex shit.

[Alex Honnold]

No, they're. No. I mean, they're basically, you know, depending where you are, they're grizzly bears, but. But not really. Like, bears are not a huge thing to be worried about. Snakes also, I mean, nobody really dies from snake bites.

[Marc Maron]

But you're not afraid of, like, the real sketchy stuff that goes. Yeah, the real sketchy. And that's what I meant by sex shit.

[Alex Honnold]

But. So that's the type of weird stuff that. Actually, I do worry more about when you're living in a car and you're like, parking on the edge of town and stuff like that. But you worry about that more in cities than you do in deep nature. Because.

[Marc Maron]

No, I mean, when I was traveling for road gigs, this is where I'm saying we have a weird Venn diagram overlap. Remember those? There's this thing called Kona. Kona with the K camera?

[Alex Honnold]

Yeah, man.

[Marc Maron]

Dude, I have. Yeah, with the K. Dude, I have slept at a Kona campground or two. Yeah, and that's sketchy.

[Alex Honnold]

Yeah, I don't do that. I just. I park more in, like, nature. Nature. Because that's. I wouldn't consider that, like, nature because that's like some kind of weird curated thing where there are, like, people in RVs next to you and you're kind of like, I don. Know what they're doing and why they're there. But no, the thing is, when I'm parked in the middle of nowhere, like, way out down some logging road, you know, people always, like, worry, like, who you going to find out here? The thing is that those people are just as worried about you because they see some van parked on the side of the road and they're like, who's that guy? And you're like, well, I'm just out here rock climbing. Like, what are you doing out here?

[Marc Maron]

I mean, I would disagree. There's way few serial killers in Times Square than there are just in the middle of the woods.

[Alex Honnold]

I don't know if that's true. I'm just saying there are a lot of people in New York. Odds are that some of them are way sketchier than, like, the one dude that you meet out in the woods. I mean, a lot of people in the woods are sort of characters, you know, like, they're on the woods for a reason. And you're like, oh, they're really into looking for a certain type of mushroom.

[Marc Maron]

How do you make small talk there?

[Alex Honnold]

We're just always friendly. And you're like, hey, you know. No, no.

[Marc Maron]

You say, hey, what are you doing here? And they go, what are you doing here?

[Alex Honnold]

No, you're just kind of like, oh, hey. And then you hope that they don't engage and you just each go your own way. But if you chit chat, you chit chat. I don't know. So I had this experience on this expedition in Guyana in. So like northern South America. And so we're in. It's sort of like the upper part of the Amazon. Let's say it's like, rainforest. Yeah. And we went to go climb these giant walls. But so the indigenous people there, we usually, like, take these boats up this river to the middle of nowhere. Yeah. A bunch of dudes from this, like, indigenous village, like, take us hiking up into the thing to help carry our stuff and, like, get us to the wall. Yeah. Anyway, these guys are literally just like, in shorts with a machete, just like walking through the jungle, and anywhere we stop, they just like, machete some things. They basically erect the structure, they put up a tarp, they just sleep. It's all super chill. They carry, like, nothing with them. They just live off the jungle. It's all easy living for them. And I remember, you know, after spending a couple weeks with these guys, like, going back and forth to, like, climb this big wall and come back, it's like this makes a complete mockery out of, like, survival TV shows and all that kind of stuff where people are like, how long can you live in the wild? And you're like, these guys literally just live in the jungle their whole life. You know, they're born here, they die here, they just live here. Like, if it's raining, they receive medical treatment here.

[Marc Maron]

It's all here.

[Alex Honnold]

They literally do everything with their machete and they just, like, make fires, they cook their food, they have a good time. And they're like, singing, they're laughing. Like, we'd get to a campsite, and like, six or eight guys would just disperse, like, walking out with their machetes, and they would basically, like, come back together. And all of a sudden a village would be created. And it would take them, like, 30 minutes. And you'd be like, I don't know how they're doing this, but it's incredible. And it just made this total mockery of, like, survival, survivalism, all that kind of stuff. Anyway, I say that because I'm like, do you think those guys are afraid of being in nature? You know, like, are they afraid of the forest? You're like, no, they live in the forest. Yeah. And I'm like, anywhere you go on Earth, human populations live in those areas. You know, I mean, like, deserts, forests, like any of those things. Like, humans have traditionally lived in any area of the Earth. I'm kind of like, you know, they're not afraid. Like, why should we be afraid? Right? You're right.

[Marc Maron]

They figured it out. Who am I to be spooked by this?

[Alex Honnold]

Yeah. And so that's kind of the thing. And so when people are like, oh, I'm afraid of the ocean, I'm afraid of the forest. I'm afraid whatever. I'm kind of like, you just need to go do more stuff. Like, you know, just get out and do the thing. Because it's like, there's nothing really to be afraid of in all these places.

[Marc Maron]

I think watching you climb is watching you in your most natural form. I've seen you in your unnatural form.

[Alex Honnold]

Is that sitting and chatting with you?

[Marc Maron]

No, it's generally when you're on the red carpet. Let's take a look.

[Alex Honnold]

Oh, wow.

[Marc Maron]

So I don't know what's happening here, but this is you covering your events at various Nat Geo Toronto films.

[Alex Honnold]

I think that one I might be wearing the same shirt and pants. Yeah, I still have my same costume.

[Marc Maron]

We got to work on your red carpet game.

[Alex Honnold]

Well, I don't know if we do, because I don't think I'm going to be spending a lot of time on a red carpet.

[Marc Maron]

I could teach you how to do it.

[Alex Honnold]

I don't really want to, but what do you think I should do differently? I was just a little more cool.

[Marc Maron]

Yeah, we could. I have a psych. I can show you. Yeah, I'll show you. You probably have, like, two or three different poses. Tyler can shoot us.

[Alex Honnold]

Are we gonna do some posing? Yeah, let's get it. Popping bottles nightly. Yeah, we're dancing slightly. This bass has got me feisty, feisty, feisty, feisty.

[Marc Maron]

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