Is Hasan Smarter than a 13-Year-Old Math Genius? (No)

Summary

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Podcast Summary: "Is Hasan Smarter than a 13-Year-Old Math Genius? (No)"

Podcast: Hasan Minhaj Doesn't Know
Host: Hasan Minhaj (Produced by 186k Films)
Guest: Soborno Bari (13-year-old NYU math & physics sophomore)
Date: October 8, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this lively and humorous episode, Hasan Minhaj ("two-time Peabody Award-winning comedian and noted IBS sufferer") faces off with 13-year-old Soborno Bari, a prodigious sophomore at NYU, in a battle of wits, mental math, and deep philosophical musings. Blending comedy with curiosity, Hasan attempts to probe the mind of a young math whiz while also seeking advice—about science, life, destiny, romance, and even his father's obsession with buying pomegranates in bulk.

The conversation delivers a mix of genuine insight, rapid-fire jokes, existential questions, and moments of self-deprecating vulnerability—all in Hasan's signature irreverent, inquisitive style.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Meet Soborno Bari: The (Very) Young Math Prodigy

• Skipped several grades, started NYU at age 12 (01:27-02:01)
• Took SAT at 11, scored 1500.
• Hasan humorously downplays Soborno's achievements:

  "That's basically what I got, rounded to the nearest 1500." (01:48)

Soborno’s Beginnings in Science

• Sparked by seeing his dad study math:

  “I am looking at him writing equations on his blackboard, and I'm thinking, what is he writing up there that could be so important that he seems more invested in it than giving me toys?... Eventually I thought, well, I see patterns here, but what are they for, who made them up and why are they this way?” — Soborno, (12:54)

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2. Hasan vs Soborno: Mental Math Duel

• A playful contest of multiplication, Hasan barely keeps up.

• Soborno easily explains complex calculations aloud:

  "[On 78 x 265] I'm going to reason it all out loud because that's a power move..." (08:39)
  "[On big mental math] ...your gut is almost always wrong when it comes to mathematics ...I've learned a bunch of particular tricks… But... creative tricks rather than just algorithmic repeats... make new mathematics." (09:19, 11:17)

• Hasan’s honest struggles:

  "[Stalled on 34 x 3] Ah, damn it, I froze. Give me the question one more time." (10:01)

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3. Math, Creativity, and the Point of Learning

• Memorization ≠ Real Science:

  "Memorizing the periodic tables doesn't matter that much if you want to be a good scientist... Science is more about creative ideas than memorization." — Soborno (04:29)

• Why Soborno loves math:

  “It allows you to play around without being bound by any rules. Hate rules? Just change them. And now you have a new kind of math.” (11:52)
  “At the end of the day, most of the time, innovations that people call useless somehow end up being used 200 years later.” (12:14)

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4. Fractals, the Coastline Paradox, and Mathematical Curiosity

• Explains fractals and their complexity in nature (05:17-06:22)

• Introduces the coastline paradox:

  "There is no good way to measure the length of a coastline because it's kind of a real life fractal." — Soborno (06:24)

• Hasan:

  "That is so brilliant, yet so confusing." (07:10)

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5. Math & Physics, AI, and the Future of Learning

• Soborno: Math/physics is “protected from AI... AI is a worse teacher...the more good sounding [the answer], the less factual it is.” (15:27, 15:50)
• Hasan plays back a clip of Soborno at age 9 predicting AI-gone-wrong scenarios (16:29-17:21)
• Soborno’s current take: Cautiously optimistic, warns about giving AI too much power (18:52-20:05)
• Sober assessment of education's direction, warns against letting ChatGPT replace genuine curiosity (48:17, 49:08)

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6. Free Will, Destiny, and Existential Questions

• Free will vs determinism explained lucidly (24:44-26:33)

• Soborno:

  “I don’t believe in predestination… there’s some sort of free will out there. But at some point, it’s just a belief.” (26:35)

• Great soundbite:

  “If I see my crush on a street corner and it's raining and I go, this was meant to be, was it meant to be?”—Hasan (27:03)

  Soborno:

  “That is a philosophical question that is very difficult to answer... the universe probably didn’t think it would get you with your crush. To be honest, I wouldn’t either.” (27:10)

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7. Romance, Friendship, and Real Life Math

• Hasan seeks closure on a decades-old crush; Soborno’s answer is both scientific and empathetic (29:50-30:57)
• Soborno describes his own lack of teenage romance, landing a clever line about “quantum superposition” (30:18)
• Advice on toxic friendships—compares cutting off friends to removing an “exploding appendix” (32:06)

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8. Cultural Commentary and Humor

• Hasan’s never-ending struggle with his dad’s pomegranate hoarding becomes a running joke (03:01, 36:14–38:12)
• Soborno:

  “People learn things when they're young and then really don't like changing them when they're old. He's learned that habit. It's deeply ingrained.” (37:07)

• Hilariously passionate about pomegranates:

  "I love pomegranates. They've always been my favorite fruit ever since I was really little. ...I have to hold back tears when someone insults them the way you have now." (38:52)

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9. Online Fame & Academic Gatekeepers

• Soborno’s viral presence is largely out of his control; says “it’s just a crazy train” (39:41)

• Discusses “rage bait” and the educational part of his online output (40:05, 40:41)

• On critics:

  “Those titles of youngest professor and God of Math mislead people... At the end of the day, I’m a college sophomore...that doesn’t mean I can produce groundbreaking research right away.” (41:34)

• Warns that his experience is not desirable or healthy for every gifted kid (43:20-44:47)

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10. Rapid-Fire Science & Pop Culture Questions

• Explains relativity, time dilation (Interstellar), and why we can’t go faster than light with clarity and humor (51:41-54:19)
• Tries (and fails) to explain the Interstellar "bookshelf" scene:

  Hasan: “He sees through the bookshelf, bro, I don't know.”
  Soborno: “I don't remember this part from the movie.” (54:55-55:00)

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11. Wisdom for the Audience

• Advice to kids:

  “Please be more curious. Honestly, just stop using ChatGPT. It sucks... You have the opportunity to do anything, learn anything... and instead you're letting ChatGPT take that opportunity for you.” (49:08)

• Failure is essential:

  “In the end, it'll all feel meaningless if you don't at least have something you consider a failure.” (50:57)

• Special anecdote about his dad failing Calculus repeatedly—and refusing to quit because of his love for math (50:17)

• Advice to Hasan:

  “Stay curious, keep inventing new jokes, stay creative... creativity and humanity is the one thing AI can’t replace.” (51:25)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On being a prodigy:

  "Is he a math genius? I don't know, but he's definitely 13 years old." — Hasan (02:01)

• On learning and memorization:

  "Real chemists always carry around the periodic table with them. ...science is more about creative ideas than memorization." — Soborno (04:29)

• On living a life worth living:

  "In the real world, you'll never feel any whimsy or joy because you also let ChatGPT take over your job. And at the end of the day, is it a life really lived if you let ChatGPT live that life for you?" — Soborno (49:08)

• On romantic ambiguity:

  "I've thought about it 988 times. So does she or does she not?" — Hasan (30:12)
  "It's a quantum superposition." — Soborno (30:18)

• On pomegranates and family:

  "He puts them in duffel bags and makes me travel with them. Yes. You finally get it. You get the hell that I'm living through. I'm a pomegranate smuggler." — Hasan (38:07)

• On being a 13-year-old with a boomer's outlook:

  "How are you 13 years old and also a boomer at the same time?" — Hasan (48:53)
  "I don't know. Maybe I was reincarnated or something. Maybe some Freaky Friday stuff happened." — Soborno (48:58)

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Important Timestamps

• Intro / Mental Math Duel: (01:27–11:00)
• Fractals and Nature: (04:55–07:12)
• Deep questions: Free will, destiny, crushes: (24:44–30:57)
• Pomegranate saga and fatherly quirks: (36:10–38:12)
• Online presence & dealing with haters: (39:23–42:47)
• Rapid-fire science and relativity (Interstellar, gravity): (51:41–54:19)
• Advice to kids & reflection on curiosity: (49:08–51:20)

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Episode Tone

The episode balances thoughtful discussions on science and humanity with Hasan Minhaj’s trademark self-deprecating humor and cultural riffing. Soborno is articulate, amusingly deadpan, and wise beyond his years—often flipping the script and playfully roasting Hasan in return.

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Final Thoughts

This episode delivers both laughs and substance, highlighting the marvel of youthful genius, the joy and agony of lifelong learning, and the universal confusion of being human—no matter your IQ or your age. As Soborno says:

“Creativity and humanity is the one thing AI can’t replace.” (51:25)

Perfect listening for anyone who loves science, comedy, and the wonder of asking questions (even dumb ones).

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Transcript

[Hasan Minhaj]

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[Soborno Bari]

Lemonade.

[Producer Scott]

F Prime of X equals 2X I started.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Suborno Bari. Skipped the 5th, 6th, 7th, 10th and 11th grades, which I guess is impressive if you're easily impressed.

[Soborno Bari]

Do you need a bow tie to be a physicist?

[Producer Scott]

No. All you need is perseverance, hard work and a dream of becoming Sir, I think Neil Oberd Einstein. But if you want to be a fancy looking physicist, then you need a bow tie.

[Hasan Minhaj]

He took the SAT when he was 11 and scored at 1500. Big deal. That's basically what I got, rounded to the nearest 1500. Then after graduating high school in two years, Soborne got accepted into NYU for math and physics.

[Soborno Bari]

You're so inspirational.

[Hasan Minhaj]

We want you to have a great first semester. There's no Harvard, but yeah, good for him, I guess. I was a political science major at UC Davis. Not trying to brag. So now he's 13 years old and entering his sophomore year at NYU. Is he a math genius? I don't know, but he's definitely 13 years old.

[Soborno Bari]

I started reading the news, I guess when I was 11 and a half.

[Hasan Minhaj]

So you're saying about a year and a half ago?

[Soborno Bari]

Yeah. So this is.

[Hasan Minhaj]

This whole interview wasn't my idea, but my team thought it'd be fun and cool for me to sit down with Soborno because I guess they think I could learn something from him. Can I ask you for Your advice.

[Soborno Bari]

On something you can't rely on me to give great advice.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Do you believe in destiny? Did you see interstellar when Matthew McConaughey didn't age, what happened there? How do I use math and science to deprogram him? What's 78 times 265? Oh, is that narcissism? What would a four dimensional object look like? What's your problem? Why is everything changing but my dad? Is free will an illusion? How are you doing this? How does he talk through the bookshelf? How do you feel about those haters? Gravity bend, time around. How do you know if someone likes you? Likes you?

[Soborno Bari]

I have no idea, dude.

[Hasan Minhaj]

So we talked about math, science, his Internet fame, and the greatest scientific mystery of my generation. My dad's tendency to purchase too many pomegranates. Way too many. It's ridiculous. God, my dad's gotta cut it out with that. How do I get him to get a normal amount of pomegranates?

[Soborno Bari]

But what if 16 people who really like pomegranate come over to your house?

[Hasan Minhaj]

Why are you turning on me?

[Soborno Bari]

I think it's best to move on.

[Hasan Minhaj]

This is gonna be really fun, man. Thanks for doing this.

[Soborno Bari]

Yeah, no problem. You know, it's an excuse to skip school.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Welcome to the show. So you were a 13 year old sophomore at NYU, is this correct? Yes. Okay, well, the name of the show is Hasan Minhaj. Doesn't know. You know a lot about the world.

[Soborno Bari]

Debatable.

[Hasan Minhaj]

I'm not trying to create a chasm between the two of us, but I'm pretty smart myself as well. I was a political science major at UC Davis. Again, not trying to brag. Are you messing with me though? That you memorize the periodic table at age 2?

[Soborno Bari]

No.

[Hasan Minhaj]

It's been 11 years since you'd practiced the periodic table.

[Soborno Bari]

Yeah, I'm still pretty good at it. I would like to think I was.

[Hasan Minhaj]

A political science major at UC Davis. Again, not trying to brag, bragging. Okay, look, I'll admit it. I'm 39 years old and a 13 year old is better than me at science.

[Soborno Bari]

Okay, here's my hot take. But memorizing the periodic tables doesn't matter that much if you want to be a good scientist. You still have time. You still have time. I mean, real chemists always carry around the periodic table with them. In reality, we all use computers to look up this stuff and do the calculations for us. Anyways, science is more about creative ideas than memorization. And I think it's a good thing that I've learned that since I was 2 years old.

[Hasan Minhaj]

One of the things that you were talking about during our pre interview with our producer Scott is you were talking very passionately about fractals. Now, I thought you were referring to fractions, but you were talking about fractals specifically the way fractals exist in trees, nature, or leaves. Now, I'm pretty sure you didn't drop acid before our call, but you're very passionate about fractals. Go off king.

[Soborno Bari]

Fractals are like one of the most beautiful mathematical objects, especially since they can sometimes arise from random stuff. One of the fractals you might know is the Mandelbrot fractal.

[Hasan Minhaj]

No.

[Soborno Bari]

Okay. There are some pretty popular videos of just zooming into it on YouTube.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Okay.

[Soborno Bari]

Because the whole thing with a fractal is that it's infinite and has infinite complexity and it goes all the way down and all that stuff. And the thing is, it's generated by this really, I can't say the word simple, this cool mathematical equation in complex analysis that when you take the zeros of it, it creates this set. The outline of the Mandelbrot set is all of the zeros of this function. And it's so weird how with most functions you expect it to be continuous, like, I don't know, a circle or square or, or whatever, some regular shape, but not a fractal. And one other fascinating thing I've always thought about is the area of a fractal. How do you even define it? You might have heard of the coastline paradox. Does that ring a goddamn.

[Hasan Minhaj]

What's the coastline paradox?

[Soborno Bari]

Okay, so essentially the coastline of a country is kind of like a real life fractal because there's infinite complexity and, you know, depending on the tide, it can literally shift. And if you zoom in and in and in on the little grains of sand on the beach, you individually that the border is changing millions of times every nanosecond and you get a different length if you measure with different levels of accuracy. And you know, it never gives you one accurate measurement. Which essentially leaves the question, there is no good way to measure the length of a coastline because it's kind of a real life fractal. That's the coastline paradox. There is no well defined measure of length on the coast.

[Hasan Minhaj]

That is so brilliant, yet so confusing.

[Soborno Bari]

I mean, yeah, most things in math are.

[Hasan Minhaj]

I take your point. But it's still important to know mental math.

[Soborno Bari]

That's true.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Then let's play a game. Let's play a game of mental math. Soborno Scott. Scott, our producer is gonna fly in a series of mental math questions. He's gonna give you some mental math questions for me, and I'm gonna give you some mental math questions for you.

[Soborno Bari]

Scott, you made these ones easier. Right?

[Hasan Minhaj]

You start this time. You give me the mental math question.

[Soborno Bari]

All right, let's see. What would you wager is the answer to three multiplied by seven?

[Hasan Minhaj]

21.

[Soborno Bari]

Okay, that's good. That's good. We're making good progress here. Oh, I skipped a card.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Soborne, what's 23 times nine?

[Soborno Bari]

23 times nine. I'm gonna say that. 207.

[Hasan Minhaj]

You're correct.

[Soborno Bari]

Okay, seven multiplied by eight.

[Hasan Minhaj]

God damn it. You know, it's the seven times eight and the nine times seven that just get. So.

[Soborno Bari]

You could say it's your kryptonite.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah, and you're bringing back a lot of painful memories.

[Soborno Bari]

My bad.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Okay, eight times five is. 40. You said eight times seven.

[Soborno Bari]

Yes.

[Hasan Minhaj]

56.

[Soborno Bari]

Yes. All right, good job.

[Hasan Minhaj]

What's 78 times 265?

[Soborno Bari]

Immediately hit me with that question. Well, I'm going to reason it all out loud because that's a power move. 78 times 265. I'm going to take out the two from 78, so that's 39 times. 530. 30. So now we can isolate that to 39 times 53, which is essentially 53 times 40, but minus 53. So 53 times 40 is 212 times 10. Oh, so no, surely it's not that simple. I can't trust my gut.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Why not trust your gut?

[Soborno Bari]

Because your gut is almost always wrong when it comes to mathematics. So just to make it clear, it's 5. 30 times 39. 39 times 53. 53 times 4 is equal to. Oh, God, I can't trust my brain. 21. 20. 53 times 40. Then that becomes 2100 minus 33. 20. 70. 2067. I'm going to say it's 20,670.

[Hasan Minhaj]

You are 100% right.

[Soborno Bari]

Let's go. Let's go. What is 3 times 34?

[Hasan Minhaj]

3 times 34. 34 plus 34 is 68. Add another 34. 68 plus 34. 68 plus 34.

[Soborno Bari]

8.

[Hasan Minhaj]

4. 12. Ah, damn it, I froze. Give me the question one more time. Ziborno, please.

[Soborno Bari]

34 times 3.

[Hasan Minhaj]

34 times 3.

[Soborno Bari]

Yes.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Okay. 34 times 3. 30 times 3. 94 times 3. 12.

[Soborno Bari]

That's correct.

[Hasan Minhaj]

102.

[Soborno Bari]

Let's go. You did it. You did it.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Let's effing Go.

[Soborno Bari]

So, I mean, if we go by the score itself, you have.

[Hasan Minhaj]

You have a fourth.

[Soborno Bari]

Oh.

[Hasan Minhaj]

725 times 162.

[Soborno Bari]

725 times 162. Well, we're gonna repeat the same trick again by taking a cube out of this. Hold on a minute. What was the question again?

[Hasan Minhaj]

725 times 162.

[Soborno Bari]

Okay, so I'm gonna say 117,450.

[Hasan Minhaj]

What the heck? How did you get that, right?

[Soborno Bari]

I mean, I did list my process out loud.

[Hasan Minhaj]

How are you doing this? I mean, how do you see it? Is there, like, a whiteboard in your head, or are you like the Zach Galifianakis meme from the Hangover?

[Soborno Bari]

The what now? It's just I've learned a bunch of particular tricks that make it easier. I've sort of learned how to do them all in your head without forgetting the results of each one and then learning how to algorithmically chain them together. But once again, the point of the whole thing is that mental math is nice and fun, and it's good to impress interviewers, but at the end of the day, creative tricks, rather than just algorithmic repeats in your head or what, make new mathematics.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Well, obviously, I can sense your passion here when it comes to math, but why do you love math so much? Why is it this deep passion for you?

[Soborno Bari]

I guess it just allows you to play around without being bound by any rules. Hate rules. Just change them. And now you have a new kind of math. Nobody's ever gonna say to you, well, what is this going to do? What's the practical application of this? Why are you studying this? Because in math, the studying itself and the looking for new properties is what makes the fun and what makes the science. And at the end of the day, most of the time, innovations that people call useless somehow end up being used 200 years later by random engineers desperate for a solution.

[Hasan Minhaj]

You know, when I think about math, it brings up very emotionally traumatic memories for me. Did you have to go to Kumon growing up?

[Soborno Bari]

My cousins did. They didn't like it. I didn't. I think that saved me from hating math.

[Hasan Minhaj]

So who got you into math? Or are you like a white woman after her divorce? Did you just find your bliss in it?

[Soborno Bari]

Well, I don't think you can exactly find your bliss when you're, like, 2 years old, but essentially, I was kind of.

[Hasan Minhaj]

I can. Of course you can. At two.

[Soborno Bari]

At two? I don't know, man. You're just, like, learning to talk and stuff. So the thing was, I Was watching my dad. He's. He was a math student, for context. So you might see how I got inspired to do mathematics. But, you know, he was preparing for his final exams. I am looking at him writing equations on his blackboard, and I'm thinking, what is he writing up there that could be so important that he seems more invested in it than giving me toys? And so that made me lock in on this even more than my toys. And eventually I thought, well, I see patterns here, but what are they for? What are they useful for? Who made them up and why are they this way?

[Hasan Minhaj]

You were thinking this up too? Yes. Oh, my God. This is your super villain origin story?

[Soborno Bari]

Super villain? Well, unless something really, really bad happens during this interview, I don't think I'll become a villain yet.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Well, you saw your dad focusing on math and science more than you, and.

[Soborno Bari]

Then you were like, well, my toys. Not me. Not me.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Oh, your toys?

[Soborno Bari]

Yeah.

[Hasan Minhaj]

You wanted more toys?

[Soborno Bari]

Yes, I think all two year olds do. Did you not want more toys?

[Hasan Minhaj]

Dude, I'll be honest with you.

[Soborno Bari]

I don't.

[Hasan Minhaj]

I don't think my memory goes that far back. Well, I think it's. My memory starts roughly at TMNT1, which was in theaters in 1989 when I was about four, so I remember that. TMNT1. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 1.

[Soborno Bari]

I love being a turtle. Damn. Damn. So are you, like, from the dinosaurs? Jurassic age? Triassic Age?

[Hasan Minhaj]

Cretaceous Age?

[Soborno Bari]

I mean, yeah, 1990 is pretty long ago.

[Hasan Minhaj]

The Mesozoic Age. That was also an age.

[Soborno Bari]

Damn. Damn.

[Hasan Minhaj]

You know this. Don't patronize me. You know, the Jurassic area was. I don't know, the Jurassic era was approximately 65 million to 160 million years ago.

[Soborno Bari]

Approximately. Yeah, I know that part.

[Hasan Minhaj]

So you're trying to roast me. You're basically saying I'm ancient because I liked TMNT1.

[Soborno Bari]

Okay, I'm gonna be honest.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Which just celebrated its 35th anniversary in theaters.

[Soborno Bari]

30Th anniversary.

[Hasan Minhaj]

35Th.

[Soborno Bari]

35Th.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Mental math. Saborna.

[Soborno Bari]

35 years. Wow. Almost three times longer than I've been alive.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yes.

[Soborno Bari]

Yeah, that's kind of scary. Time is incomprehensible.

[Hasan Minhaj]

So you're studying math and physics at NYU right now? Correct?

[Soborno Bari]

That is true.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Are you going through that thing that a lot of sophomores in college go through? Are you going through that thing where you go, why bother. Why even bother studying this? Because artificial intelligence will end up doing a lot of this anyways.

[Soborno Bari]

Not really. Because I think, honestly, a math and physics is kind of one of the most protected from AI so far. I don't know if ChatGPT is coming to take my job soon. And even if that's not the case, I find that AI. And yes, I've used AI sometimes when I'm sleepy to teach me stuff, but I often find that it's a worse teacher than just looking it up myself.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Why is that?

[Soborno Bari]

I don't know. It's just really bad at explaining concepts beyond the surface level definitions that you get on Google. Sometimes you get it to generate a good sounding response, but the more good sounding it is, the less factual it actually is.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Well, Saporna, let me just push back a little bit here and I want to hold you to the standard that I hold all my guests to. I'm not here to pin you into a corner, but I do want to ask you have your thoughts on artificial intelligence and AGI evolved. Now, I know people can grow and change, and I'm not a strong believer in cancel culture, but I do want to play back an old clip of you talking about artificial intelligence when you were nine years old. Let's take a look.

[Producer Scott]

I feel like AI will have this tendency to try and wipe out humanity if it sees that that's blocking its goal. If an AI wants to do something and the human gets in the way, then what will happen to that human? We don't know. I think it's still worth it to develop AI because it could have immense consequences in the favor of humanity. And we might just be missing out on that by stopping its development because AI could help us colonize our galaxy. And AI is like trying to engineer another sort of human. Sure, it could have brutality, but it could also have empathy. I mean, that's what Zane discussed. So I feel like it could also have massive consequences in the favor of humanity. So I feel like AI is a sort of gambling thing.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Okay.

[Soborno Bari]

Damn, that was a cognitohazard.

[Hasan Minhaj]

So basically what you're saying in this clip, it's. I call it the Terminator 2 syndrome. Hey, it's a robot that could kill us, but he could be nice.

[Soborno Bari]

That's true.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Do you still feel this way?

[Soborno Bari]

Well, I'm gonna say what I said back then was like a lukewarm take. It's probably not going to kill us if we're not stupid. Unfortunately, humans are stupid, as we all know. Which means that somehow.

[Hasan Minhaj]

When did you come to that realization that humans are stupid?

[Soborno Bari]

That is a good question. Probably at the same time I started to get into reading the news, which was, I guess when I was 11 and a half.

[Hasan Minhaj]

So you're saying about a year and a half ago. So you started reading the news and then what was the breakthrough moment where you go, wow, these people are idiots.

[Soborno Bari]

I don't know. It feels like it gradually happened over time. Reading more and more about politics. You get probably the worst people for the jobs in the highest jobs in America and in the world and so many other problems, and you eventually start thinking, holy crap. And I think that really encapsulates just how bad both the state of education and the state of curiosity is in the US right now. It's not about math and science anymore. Nobody wants to learn anything about anything. And I think that's made us significantly dumber and also significantly more less cautious.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Well, I want to be less dumb. That's why the show is called Hasan Minhaj doesn't know, but I hope to know. Can you finish your thoughts on AI and AGI? What's going to happen with that?

[Soborno Bari]

If you give AI the power over your life and other people's life and then you do dumb things with it, eventually you're going to get dumb results. Not just dumb, but outright horrible, disgusting results. And so.

[Hasan Minhaj]

So we're doomed.

[Soborno Bari]

Well, if we try to not give AI the power over our emotions and in our lives and we also figure out how to correct AI so that it doesn't say this vile stuff to us all the time, and it also can't be jailbroken, even though that's an incredibly hard task to achieve. I don't know. Maybe it'll be fine. Sometimes it feels like the ways in which people are using AI get worse and worse every single day from, you know, just like silly things like generating that one video of Will Smith eating spaghetti to like, really, really horrible things. Deep fakes of people saying stuff they didn't say or doing stuff they didn't do or doing really bad, even explicit stuff they didn't do is putting real lives and real people in danger. And then as soon as we link ChatGPT up to the nuclear codes, I mean, who knows what's going to go down. I don't know if you watched Mission Impossible 8, but I think that's.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Was that the Dubai one or the newest one?

[Soborno Bari]

The newest one.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Okay, yeah.

[Soborno Bari]

I don't know if you watched it, but that's like basically the whole plot.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Just give me the end.

[Soborno Bari]

A bunch of eyes take over silo, nuclear silos all around the world, and then they figure out how to break into and hijack other countries silos. And eventually the Entire world is under control of the A.I.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Wait, that's a stunt? Tom Cruise breaks into A.I. that's the stunt. Well, of the latest Mission Impossible.

[Soborno Bari]

Not really. He breaks into the plane of the guy who has the key that controls the AI.

[Hasan Minhaj]

What's the big stunt that he does that makes you go, wow, a 60 year old lived through that stunt? That's the reason why I watched the movie.

[Soborno Bari]

I'm pretty sure he flies over with his plane under the main villain's plane, and then he like jumps out of the cockpit and he hangs onto it. And then he punches the guy who's in the plane to death, throws his body out of it and climbs in so he can retrieve the key.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Sick. I'm back in.

[Soborno Bari]

Yeah, it's cool, it's cool. But essentially, to finish my thoughts on AI, it's dangerous if we let it have power over us and then specifically tell it to say something negative.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Right.

[Soborno Bari]

If we don't give it that power, then it should be fine. It can even help us sometimes.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Out of curiosity, why do scientists use math to describe the natural world instead of words?

[Soborno Bari]

Well, words are imprecise and vague. And if I just say there were many sheep there, I mean, how are you going to calculate exactly how many sheep there were? Many can mean so many things depending on what context it's in. I mean, if there were 20 sheep and like in like a pen the size of this room, then that would be like a lot, even animal abuse kind of conditions. Sure. But if there were like 20 sheep in some pen the size of New York City, I mean, you're gonna say, oh my God, there were so few. But what does few mean? It depends on context.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Right.

[Soborno Bari]

The thing is, numbers don't really depend on context other than the units. But you can always provide those. Those are words.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Right.

[Soborno Bari]

Numbers are never vague. 12 never means something different in a different context.

[Hasan Minhaj]

That's brilliant, because when I was growing up and I was like, my room's hella messy.

[Soborno Bari]

That could mean anything really. And it's probably still an open mathematical problem. I don't know what they're up to these days to define, like a mathematical index of uncleanliness.

[Hasan Minhaj]

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[Soborno Bari]

That's true.

[Hasan Minhaj]

I'm gonna ask you a series of questions that are either in a textbook or in your day to day life and I'd love for you to break them down for me.

[Soborno Bari]

Sure. Great.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Here's a textbook question. Let's start with something easy. If the universe is governed by mathematical laws as you've described, is free will an illusion or does quantum randomness open a door for it?

[Soborno Bari]

Ooh, see, I'm not a philosopher, but I have studied free will a little bit and see there are a lot of different takes on it and none of them can really be scientifically verified. But there were three main takes. There's the compatibility, the compatibilistic, which basically says, yes, it's governed by all the quantum stuff and everything else, but that doesn't mean we don't have free will. Then there's the incompatibilist take, which. Or, sorry, the determinist take, which says, well, everything is governed by quantum mechanics and classical mechanics or electromagnetism and relativity, whatever the physical laws are. And if all of them are laws, then that means we are strictly bound by them and we're essentially a puppet to them. So we don't. And the. I guess, free Willist. I'm not sure what to call them. They say, well, no, not everything is governed by laws. There's some outside force that's not governed by the physical laws that is driving the brain in there somehow. The real answer is that we can't get a great answer to any of these questions with the big science because science and free will don't really mix. It kind of feels like science is already telling us the answer is we don't have free will. But our human experience is very much telling us we do. It doesn't feel like there's anything governing us in real life. But human experience is woefully vague, as I've said before. I mean, there's no numbers to quantify it, only words. And words are vague. And so free will still can't be jammed and into the scientific machine.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Do you believe in destiny?

[Soborno Bari]

No, not really. I believe that, well, technically everyone can set their own destiny because by default, I guess the destiny is just the place where you end up. But I don't believe in predestination, which is basically just determinism. So I do believe that there is some sort of free will out there. But hey, at some point it's not a falsifiable claim. So it's just a belief. I just have faith. It's not really verifiable.

[Hasan Minhaj]

So if I see my crush on a street corner and it's raining and I go, this was meant to be, was it meant to be?

[Soborno Bari]

That is a philosophical question that is very difficult to answer. And the universe probably didn't think it would get you with your crush. To be honest, I wouldn't either. But I guess in some way you could say if determinism really is true, then it was meant to be somehow, some way. But if determinism isn't, I mean, that's almost better you were able to come up to it and make it true your own way.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Well, let me ask you something a little bit more specific. How do you know if someone likes you? Likes you?

[Soborno Bari]

I don't know. I haven't been in, like, A romantic relationship yet. I had a crush in elementary school, and then that slowly faded away. And since then, I haven't had a crush. And no one's had a crush on me. Because it's really weird to have a crush on someone four years younger than you when you're under 20.

[Hasan Minhaj]

So that first crush, though, how did it fade away? It was long distance or. What's going on?

[Soborno Bari]

She ended up not going to the same third grade class as I did, and I stopped seeing her entirely when I moved to a totally different school for fourth grade.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Do you think that was meant to be? That you guys wouldn't end up together?

[Soborno Bari]

Nothing's really meant to be, in my opinion, so I guess it just didn't happen.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Can I ask you for your advice on something?

[Soborno Bari]

You can't rely on me to give.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Great advice, but I just need you to help me understand something. Because you are a sophomore in college, right?

[Soborno Bari]

Yes.

[Hasan Minhaj]

The story's from about 19 years ago, when I was a sophomore in college. For the sake of this story, I'm going to call this girl. Her name's Pahlavi. I had a huge crush on Pallavi, and we would study together all the time. And Pahlavi was super into botany. And so I was working at OfficeMax at the time, and I used one of my paychecks to get a bunch of plants for her. I'm talking about all sorts of flora. Orchids, marigolds, hydrangeas, lilacs.

[Soborno Bari]

I don't think you have to elaborately list me every kind of flower.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Okay. I'm just trying to paint the picture for you, because, remember, you said, be precise.

[Soborno Bari]

The picture is surely painted.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Okay, got it. So we're studying together over the course of the quarter. I got one of those, like, study rooms that they have at the library. And I filled that, like, tiny little study room that we would study in. I filled it with all of those plants. And then Pallavi came in. I go, hey, Pahlavi, I just wanted to let you know that, like, I like you. Like, more than a friend. Do you like me? And then she said, I don't know. And I was like, but you're the only person that would know. And I think about that at least once a week over the past 19 years. And I just wanted to ask you, did Pahlavi like me?

[Soborno Bari]

I mean, you probably could have asked her again, or you could have asked her at some other point in time also. 19 times. 52. Holy crud. How many times have you thought this over?

[Hasan Minhaj]

Tell me the Number of times I've thought about it.

[Soborno Bari]

1,000. No, not 1,000 yet. 988.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah, I've thought about it 988 times. So does she or does she not?

[Soborno Bari]

I mean, it's a quantum superposition.

[Hasan Minhaj]

What do you look?

[Soborno Bari]

How should I know? Yes.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Is she married and does she have three kids? Yes. Am I married with two kids? Yes, but the vibes that quarter were real.

[Soborno Bari]

I guess the answer here is it's been 19 years. You got three words that's like, I don't know, 0.14 words per year. And I mean, at some point you gotta stop speculating about it because at the end of the day, it's tragic, it's sad, but, I mean, you've hopefully found the new love of your life and she's found the new love of hers.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yes.

[Soborno Bari]

And you both can move on and live happily ever after.

[Hasan Minhaj]

I think you're right. It's time to move on.

[Soborno Bari]

See? Am I giving good romantic advice, guys? Am I a role model yet?

[Hasan Minhaj]

What would a four dimensional object look like? And could humans ever actually perceive it?

[Soborno Bari]

Probably not. I don't know what a four dimensional object looks like because at that point in mathematics, when you get past dimension number three, no human is able to visualize that. Because our monkey brains are engineered specifically for visualizing the three dimensions of space that are useful for us. Because we can't really change our monkey brains, we've instead invented something called mathematics, which tells us you don't need to see the fourth dimension to actually do work in it.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Here's a real life question. How do you know when one of your friends is too toxic and you have to cut them out? I have a buddy of mine, we grew up together, and I can never rely on him. Whenever I have a comedy show and I remind him in advance that the show's at 8, it'll be 8:02, and I'm about to get on stage and he'll text me, yo, bro, where do I park? But this is my boy. We grew up together. Like, we've known each other since. Since the time you loved math. When is it time for me to cut him off?

[Soborno Bari]

That is a difficult question. And I have to say something about myself here. I am very spoiled friends. W. Because I've almost. I'm gonna say almost here. Never had a negative friend. I mean, I'm probably about to go really stupid and overboard with these things, but surgeries and stuff to remove things like an exploding appendix that is about to kill you. Removing them hurts you're going to get extreme stomach and abdominal pain in the days following the surgery. But of course, that's better than having your insides blown up and sometimes dying. The point is, sometimes things hurt, but it can hurt even more to you gradually and over time if you just let them fester. No matter if it hurts, if it hurts more to keep it going, cut it off.

[Hasan Minhaj]

All right, I'll cut it off.

[Soborno Bari]

Damn.

[Hasan Minhaj]

So, just to be clear, all the friends that you've had in Your life of 13 years on planet Earth, you can count on all of them?

[Soborno Bari]

Yeah, pretty much.

[Hasan Minhaj]

And they accept you for you?

[Soborno Bari]

Yeah. And that's what you need from a true friend. Most of the people who have been in my life and who I've called friends have been really nice to me, and I'm grateful for that.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Why does it hurt me to hear that you haven't been hurt?

[Soborno Bari]

Probably one day I'll have someone again who more significantly hurts me. And you're gonna be feeling all of that Soadenfreude, or however you pronounce it.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah. Schatten freude.

[Soborno Bari]

Wow. You're also better in German pronunciation. See, I've counted at least four things you're better at.

[Hasan Minhaj]

No, the only reason why I know what schadenfreude is is because I'm a petty person and I had to look up the word for. I'm really starting to think that enjoying.

[Soborno Bari]

Hasan Minaz doesn't know is a lie. He does know. He knows lots.

[Hasan Minhaj]

I know 9 times 6 in Schattenfreude. Do you believe in the simulation theory?

[Soborno Bari]

No, but there's not really any way to check.

[Hasan Minhaj]

But if reality can be fully described by math, could it be a simulation?

[Soborno Bari]

It? Well, we haven't exactly checked that reality can be fully described by math yet. But math is decently accurate so far in most of the areas we've applied it to. If we somehow find that physics theory that encapsulates absolutely everything. Yeah, then I'll take the simulation theory more seriously. But for right now, I'll have to pass on it.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Here's a combination question. This is a combination of physics and real life. According to the Schrodinger equation, all states evolve, right? Change is fundamental. In a sense. The only constant in the universe is change. But if that's true, why is everything changing? But my dad. But your dad, dad, he won't change.

[Soborno Bari]

Change like physically, mentally, emotionally.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Dude, you want to get into it?

[Soborno Bari]

Like, is he just a statue?

[Hasan Minhaj]

Bro, he has diabetes. I go, take your insulin, you will die. He doesn't take his insulin. They're like, oh, entropy. Just the only thing that everything. Objects in motion stay in motion. This dude will not. He is static.

[Soborno Bari]

Technically, entropy is kind of like the rate of change. The layman's description is it's kind of like chaos. So everything changes.

[Hasan Minhaj]

You want to talk about chaos? Chaos is his algorithm. YouTube videos that are voiced by AI humans are stubborn.

[Soborno Bari]

They can be stubborn, they can be stupid. And at the end of the day, we're all stubborn and stupid, and we just have to figure out how to overcome that. But, of course, when you're that late in life, I guess it's more difficult to change.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Let me give you a case example, okay? So my dad, both me and my sister, we've moved out. Okay.

[Soborno Bari]

Yeah. I would be really worried if you hadn't moved out by.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Hang on, let me finish. I have moved out. Thank you very much.

[Soborno Bari]

Good.

[Hasan Minhaj]

The only people living at home with my dad and mom is no one. They live by themselves in Sacramento. My dad loves Costco, so he'll go to Costco and get 16 pomegranates. Boxes of 16 pomegranates. I go, dad, nobody is going to eat that many pomegranates. Then they start going bad.

[Soborno Bari]

My dad might.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Well, have your dad come over to my dad's house.

[Producer Scott]

Yeah.

[Soborno Bari]

Yeah, we can do that.

[Hasan Minhaj]

12 of these pomegranates. I go, dad, go to Raley's down the street, buy two to three pomegranates that you and mom can eat. He refuses because the quantity that he gets per price to get 16 pomegranates is worth it. So he will get pounds of pomegranates at Costco. How do I get him to get a normal amount of pomegranates?

[Soborno Bari]

Question. Do most of them rot before he can eat them?

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yes.

[Soborno Bari]

Oh, sorry. Eat them.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yes.

[Soborno Bari]

Okay. Have you told him about this and has he acknowledged it?

[Hasan Minhaj]

He goes, people may come over. You never know. The price is so great.

[Soborno Bari]

But what if 16 people who really like pomegranate come over to your house?

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah, See, now. Now I think you're in the same. You're in the same versus my dad. This is. This is an insane thing that Najmeet does. You're doing what my dad does.

[Soborno Bari]

Fine, fine, fine, fine. People learn things when they're young and then really don't like changing them when they're old. He's learned that habit. He has it deeply ingrained in his brain. And your thoughts about it are like some sort of lesser Attack on it. It's not going to change his deeply ingrained habit.

[Hasan Minhaj]

How do I use math and science to deprogram him?

[Soborno Bari]

Use math and science to ban him from Costco.

[Hasan Minhaj]

That might be one option, but essentially is what you're saying is the reality is, is there is no changing a 75 year old Indian man.

[Soborno Bari]

Not really. I mean, when you're that old and you're also from India, a culture that values its traditions, especially, you know, traditions of economy because so, so many parts of it were and still are in poverty. When you have a country that, I mean, values its traditions that much, they're probably not going to change their mental habits. Take some of the pomegranates for yourself. Steal them out of your dad's fridge.

[Hasan Minhaj]

That's what he does. He puts them in duffel bags and makes me travel with them.

[Soborno Bari]

Damn.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yes. You finally get it. You get the hell that I'm living through. I'm a pomegranate smuggler. You laughing at me? Sorry. You're laughing at my pain. Okay, dude, what's your problem?

[Soborno Bari]

Okay, okay. Just like shove them in the trunk, donate them to charity. Eat them yourselves.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Oh my God, you're acting like my sister now. You're like, oh, it's not that big of a deal. Just take the pomegranates.

[Soborno Bari]

If you ever considered your sister might be reasonable.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Wait, why are you attacking me now?

[Soborno Bari]

I'm just saying, man.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Dude, I've been nice to you this whole interview. What the frick, dude?

[Soborno Bari]

Frick. Yeah.

[Hasan Minhaj]

I don't want to use bad language. Your parents are out there. What the he double hockey sticks. Why are you turning on me?

[Soborno Bari]

Because I think pomegranates are cool, man. I love pomegranates. They've always been my favorite fruit ever since I was really little. And I'm sorry to get so mean and so angry and so concentrated over this, but I have to hold back tears when someone insults them the way you have now. I think it's best to move on.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Okay, let's talk about your online footprint. If you're going to get into it about me, I'm going to get into it about you. We need to talk about your Facebook and YouTube pages. You literally get millions and millions and millions of views. Some of these videos are pretty unhinged. How do you feel about your online footprint? And do you even control it?

[Soborno Bari]

No, I do not control it. My parents used to control it when we were little and we just made videos. Nowadays, they don't really control it either. It's just a crazy train going on without any real pilot. And so we make videos. Moderators randomly repost videos from years ago to see if they get any views. The ones that do get views are either kind of rage bait, if you've ever heard that word.

[Hasan Minhaj]

What is rage bait?

[Soborno Bari]

It means baiting people into raging. Because rage as engagement is really, really popular these days. Angry is like a virus that spreads through the Internet, but back to my Internet footprint. I don't like the clickbait titles, but the one thing I do like is teaching people and making sure they get that information and understand it. If a billion people get mad, the next day, those billion people, they're just gonna move on with their lives and get angry at something else. The next day. We're asked the, the people who learn it keep it with them for their whole life and they start loving the thing they've learned.

[Hasan Minhaj]

That's beautiful. And the fact that you're willing to carry the burden of online hate to still give people the light and hope of math and science, that is really beautiful. So thank you for doing that. And I want to, I want you to know, even though you were mean to me about the pomegranate stuff, I have your back. Thank you. Let's address these haters. There's a lot of academic gatekeepers that see your videos and they go, this kid, yeah, he's smart, but he hasn't done any groundbreaking research. I'm talking about those jealous nerds on Reddit, Reddit.com r math, I'm looking at you.

[Soborno Bari]

Damn.

[Hasan Minhaj]

I'm talking about people with mortgages, back pain, and full on cul de sac bald spots on their head hating on him. A 13 year old child. How do you feel about those haters?

[Soborno Bari]

I'm just gonna say once again, I mean, I'm 13, I got into university a year ago. I've been in contact with these high level professors for like eight or nine months. I haven't had the time to produce groundbreaking research because I'm just getting a grip on these things. And sure, I mean, once again, those titles of youngest professor and God of Math lead people mislead people. Sorry to believe that I have done the kinds of research that I haven't. At the end of the day, I'm a college sophomore. Yeah, I'm pretty young for the average college sophomore, but that doesn't mean I can produce groundbreaking research right away.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Right. And anyone who's jealous of a 13 year old seems to not remember how bad it was to be a 13 year old. I mean, dude, being a 13 year old sucks.

[Soborno Bari]

Yeah, it's rough. It's rough.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Now to be fair, it only gets better from here.

[Soborno Bari]

Really? I thought 14 or 15 gets worse.

[Hasan Minhaj]

No, no, no, it's. Dude, you're on the way up. It's gonna be great.

[Soborno Bari]

That's nice.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah, it's gonna be great. Do you get a lot of heat from other kids of immigrants? Do other kind of desi and Asian kids come up to you and go, dude, you're messing it up for me. There's videos of you on the Internet doing all this crazy advanced math and science. My parents are showing me videos of you and you're really messing it up for all of us.

[Soborno Bari]

Well, I get some comments, but in the real world, I'm going to wager about 60% of people who go to NYU's math department are Asian in some way or another. And probably about 40% of them are from East Asia. And so I'm like one guy and NYU is huge. So I mean, if you are mad at me for taking up one spot, that's pretty petty for like a 22 year old or however old these people around me are. And that's the good thing. All of the people around me are mature enough to not really care that I'm the one taking up these spots. And I would say what I've done is hard for me as well. Not just like academically, but also mentally. I would say not every child is meant to go through this. And not to brag here, I know that so much, but I would say I have a little bit more talk to smack king average mental fortitude. And I think that's the only thing that's really kept me from going crazy this whole time. Because between, you know, the hamster wheel of being famous online, which is a lot worse than being famous in person because you get barely any money compared to the actors and celebrities, you're less rich, and yet you still get the same amount of hate and speculation and mockery. So between that and, you know, my actual academic responsibilities, I think that the average child probably would have gone crazy by now. And so I'm not saying I'm God gifted, because I'm not. I'm just saying that I'm really lucky to have the best people in the world around me and also to be able to think through these things myself. But this road isn't for every child. Being this way will suck for most people. And I mean, I'm having fun now mostly because of the math and science part. But kids who don't like math and science, and even some of them who do will hate the route that I've gone if they're pushed to go do it themselves, right? And I say that's totally fine.

[Hasan Minhaj]

So you're basically saying I'm him.

[Soborno Bari]

Um, no, I don't want to.

[Hasan Minhaj]

If I were you, I'd say I'm him and you can't handle it.

[Soborno Bari]

I think you have main character syndrome or whatever. Oh, well, are actually pretty famous.

[Hasan Minhaj]

What's main character syndrome? Oh, is that narcissism?

[Soborno Bari]

It's the younger kids version of narcissism. Yeah. So I'm not saying you're a narcissist. I'm so sorry about that.

[Hasan Minhaj]

What are you saying, man? Just say it. No, no, no, no, no.

[Soborno Bari]

Say it.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Air it out, bro.

[Soborno Bari]

All right. Pom granite.

[Hasan Minhaj]

That's how you feel about me?

[Soborno Bari]

Yes.

[Hasan Minhaj]

We've been talking for.

[Soborno Bari]

Honestly, a dis. Dishonorable title. Pomegranates mean something to me, dude.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Next time I make a trip to Sacramento, I'll put 12 in a bag, come to your place, and drop them off, see how much you like it. I'll see how much you like it. A dozen.

[Soborno Bari]

That's great. That's 12. Thank you so much. I think that makes up for everything.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Let's try to turn a new foot here. You know, let's not talk about that.

[Soborno Bari]

Isn't that a new leaf?

[Hasan Minhaj]

Sorry. Yeah, you're right. Let's turn a new leaf, shall we?

[Soborno Bari]

Yes.

[Hasan Minhaj]

I respect that.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Well, hi, everybody. It's Julia Louis Dreyfus from the Wiser Than Me podcast. And I'm not going to talk about food waste this time. I'm going to talk about food resources. All that uneaten food rotting in the landfill. It could be enriching our soil or feeding our chickens, because it's still food. And the easiest and, frankly, way coolest way to put all its nutrients to work is with the mill food recycler. It looks like an art house garbage can. You can just toss your scraps in it like a garbage can. But it is definitely not a garbage can. I mean, it's true. I'm pretty obsessed with this thing. I even invested in this thing. But I'm not alone. Any mill owner just might corner you at a party and rhapsodize about how it's completely odorless and it's fully automated and how you can keep filling it for weeks, but the clincher is that you can depend on it for years. Mill is a serious machine. Think about a dishwasher, not a toaster. It's built by hand in North America and it's engineered by the guy who did your iPhone. But you have to kind of live with Mill to understand all the love. That's why they offer a go to mill.com wiser for an exclusive offer.

[James Corden]

Hello, I'm James Corden, and on my new show, this Life of Mine, I sit down each week with some of the most fascinating people on planet Earth. From Dr. Dre to Julianne Moore to David Beckham to Cynthia Erivo to Martin Scorsese to Jeremy Renner to Denzel Washington to Kim Kardashian, we talk about the people, places, possessions, music, and memories that made them who they are. These are intimate conversations, full of stories that you've never heard before. This Life of Mine premieres October 21st, wherever you get your podcasts.

[Hasan Minhaj]

As I enter the fourth decade of my life, sometimes I think, you know, it's only going to get worse from here. I'm pretty cynical about the future. How do you feel about the future? Are you optimistic?

[Soborno Bari]

Bad? It's probably not going to be great, especially the education system. You know, I've always aspired to teach other people, as I've said a while ago, but the way things are going, it seems like people actively don't want to be taught, and they will go through any loophole to make sure they don't have to learn anything. ChatGPT is the one that does the learning. ChatGPT is the one that does the work. Maybe soon, when all our classes are online or in the metaverse, ChatGPT is going to be the one answering the questions and raising its hands in class. And that really makes me furious about the future.

[Hasan Minhaj]

How are you 13 years old and also a boomer at the same time?

[Soborno Bari]

I don't know. Maybe I was reincarnated or something. Maybe some Freaky Friday stuff happened.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Do you have any advice for the kids out there? Anything that you'd like to impart with?

[Soborno Bari]

Please be more curious. Honestly, just stop using ChatGPT. It sucks. Okay? You can do it if the only thing you care about is passing. So I want to break that conception that the only thing that matters is passing. You're in school for learning all of these wonderful things. You have the opportunity to do anything, learn anything, and understand anything at your fingertips. And Instead you're letting ChatGPT take that opportunity for you. And so in the real world, you'll never feel any whimsy or joy because you will also let ChatGPT take over your job. And at the end of the day, is it a life really lived if you let ChatGPT live that life for you? I mean, I want to be kind to Chatgpt. I think it's pretty nice. It's living all these lives. But why you letting it kick you out of your own life and your own opportunities and your own wonderful things? And let's face it, some people just aren't in the conditions to pass. What then? The American education system is, most of the time, pretty forgiving. My dad doesn't want me to say this, but in college he failed calculus four times. Oh, he wasn't that good at math.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Oh, my God.

[Soborno Bari]

Yeah, he failed calculus four times. But he learned and he learned and he kept taking it because he loved.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Math, so he was a dummy.

[Soborno Bari]

So he. Oh, come on. Then after his fourth failure, he got a B, but then he didn't like it because, you know, it's not good enough. He wanted to master the subject. So we took it again and got an A. And then after that, he got straight A's on every course past it because that love of learning was in him no matter how many times he failed. So.

[Hasan Minhaj]

So look, what are you trying to tell the younger kids that look up to you? I'm Talking about the 4, 5 and 6 year olds that are in the trenches slogging it out. What do you have to say to them?

[Soborno Bari]

I'm saying don't let ChatGPT live your life. Learn your own education and work your job for you. Don't let it take away all of those amazing opportunities that make your life rough and special. And don't be afraid to fail sometimes and get the machine that always succeeds to succeed for you. Because in the end, it'll all feel meaningless if you don't at least have something you consider a failure.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Any advice for me?

[Soborno Bari]

I don't know. I guess just stay curious, keep inventing new jokes, stay creative, whatever it is. Because creativity and humanity is the one thing AI can't replace.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Can you do a quick science rapid fire with me?

[Soborno Bari]

Sure.

[Hasan Minhaj]

How does gravity bend time around it?

[Soborno Bari]

Okay, time. I wouldn't say it that way, but it bends light around it. So here's the thing. Space. Time is what some people would call a fabric, but essentially it's like a coordinate system. In this coordinate system, you know, like the Cartesian XY thing, it gets distorted sometimes. You know how in classical mechanics distance is the same? Like if you look at my hands from over there in the room or over here in the room or up there in the room, you'll always see that my hands have the same distance between them. Yes, but in special relativity or relativity in general, you know, distance is not the thing that is conserved. Time is not the thing that is conserved. It's the speed of light. And by extension, some combination of distance in time we call the space time invariant. See, we call it an invariant because it doesn't vary. And so that is what doesn't change in distance and time have to sort of bend around it and conform to it. And one way of bending distance in time without changing the space time invariant is gravity.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Right. That's essentially the I just said, right? I actually don't know what you just said, but I have to believe you, and I can't fact check you, so rewatch it. You're saying, I will rewatch this back.

[Soborno Bari]

And I don't know, ask Neil Degrasse Tyson or one of the other scientists.

[Hasan Minhaj]

He won't get back to my emails. Why can't we go faster than light?

[Soborno Bari]

That is a good question. The gamma factor is a relativistic concept that essentially tells you that as you get closer to the speed of light, things get more effed up. So essentially, distance contracts more. Time gets longer in your reference frame than it is to others. With distance getting shorter and time getting longer. The thing is, you need acceleration. The energy you need to go faster goes up and up and up, until eventually, when you're traveling this close to the speed of light, you need infinite energy to accelerate more. And so there's no possible way you could acquire infinite energy from anywhere in the universe. Thus, you can't accelerate, so you can't go faster.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Do you think humans can ever engineer true consciousness?

[Soborno Bari]

I'm going to wager a no, because consciousness is really complicated. But who knows? Maybe just like that free will question earlier, we're gonna find out that consciousness and free will aren't the same thing. We don't have free will. And in that specific case, maybe we can somehow figure out what equations lead to engineering a consciousness. If a consciousness gets synthesized in that far, far future, it's probably not going to like us.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Did you see interstellar when Matthew McConaughey didn't age? What happened there?

[Soborno Bari]

Okay, well, it's not that he didn't age.

[Hasan Minhaj]

He didn't age.

[Soborno Bari]

His time is a lot slower than the time of people on Earth. So because he was near a black hole, where spacetime is really, really, really bent, his gamma factor is really high, which essentially means that his time is super slow, as he said. I think one hour down here is seven years back on Earth because of that time dilation factor. That makes his time super slow compared to Murph or whoever he was leaving at home's time.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Right, but. But how. How is the bookshelf like a phone booth for him?

[Soborno Bari]

What?

[Hasan Minhaj]

How does he talk through the bookshelf?

[Soborno Bari]

What?

[Hasan Minhaj]

He sees through the bookshelf, bro, I don't know.

[Soborno Bari]

I don't remember this part from the movie.

[Hasan Minhaj]

You remembered the amount of time that changed, but you don't remember what happened with the bookshelf. All right, do you want me to give you the tldr? There's a scene, and you have to remember this. There's a scene where he, like, looks through the bookshelf and he sees his daughter and he starts crying. You know, the Matthew McConaughey thing where he's like, bawling, don't let me leave.

[Soborno Bari]

Murphy. Are you sure he wasn't just hiding a picture behind the bookshelf of his daughter?

[Hasan Minhaj]

I don't know. That's why I'm asking you.

[Soborno Bari]

That sounds like the plausible scientific explanation. I don't know. I'd have to rewatch the scene.

[Hasan Minhaj]

He knocks over the. That's. That's his connection to her. He. He knocks over the photo, I guess. Dude, what happens?

[Soborno Bari]

I. I have no idea.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Dude, what is the Schrodinger's cat thought experiment? And how does this help explain quantum mechanics?

[Soborno Bari]

So the Schrodinger's Cat thought experiment was actually invented by Schrodinger to disprove quantum mechanics. You see, he said, put a cat in a box. Well, not quantum mechanics, essentially. More. There are two interpretations of quantum mechanics, and we nowadays know one is correct. There's the. I guess, Objectivist. I don't remember exactly the interpretation, but it says that particles have a state at every point in time. We just can't measure it. Exactly, which is why the uncertainty point of view, we're always going to be off by some of those, but there will always be. And now it's an example of quantum mechanics being absurd and still existing.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Well, listen, man, this is really great. Thanks for. Thanks for coming and hanging out, man. This was awesome.

[Soborno Bari]

Yeah, no problem. I really enjoy explaining these scientific concepts. And I also really enjoy, I mean, just talking to other people about things that are not science. Almost as much as I enjoy pomegranates.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Nicely done.

[Soborno Bari]

Thank you. Hurry right away, no delay Stop.

[Producer Scott]

Make your daddy glad you have had such a land.