Is Heaven a Place on Earth? with Deepak Chopra

Summary

Podcast Summary: “Is Heaven a Place on Earth? with Deepak Chopra”

Podcast: Hasan Minhaj Doesn’t Know
Host: Hasan Minhaj (for 186k Films)
Guest: Deepak Chopra
Release Date: January 7, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this insightful and irreverent episode, Hasan Minhaj sits down with spiritual leader, author, and medical doctor Deepak Chopra. The conversation dances between metaphysics, the mind-body question, consciousness, modern wellness trends, and some of the more absurd or controversial corners of Chopra’s career and legacy. Minhaj’s trademark blend of curiosity and comedic skepticism drives the conversation, turning deep philosophical queries (“What is suffering?”) into playful, sometimes pointed banter with his guest. The central theme explores whether “heaven”–or transcendence, peace, and fulfillment–is a reality that can be realized in this world, or merely a metaphysical construct.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Deepak vs. Deepak AI: The Quantum Physics of Being Late

[02:04–03:00]

• Minhaj jokes about Chopra’s new AI chatbot. He asks both the real Deepak and the AI to explain why Hasan is always late.
• Real Chopra: “Quantum physics has no explanation for you being late other than you’re a lazy guy.” (03:00)
• AI Chopra: Provides a vibrational, New Age explanation, chalking up lateness to “a quantum fluctuation in the field of possibility.”
• Minhaj prefers the AI’s answer: “I like that answer more...it’s not my fault.” (03:00)

2. Spiritual Foundations: Suffering, Inner Peace & Love

[04:57–07:35]

• Minhaj rapid-fires spiritual concepts; Chopra’s key points:
  • Source of suffering: “The hallucination that we are separate selves.” (05:08)
  • Inner peace: “Inner peace is your natural state before it’s bamboozled by your conditioned mind. So I’m always at peace. I’ve never experienced stress.” (05:49)
  • Can science explain love? “Science can explain the neural correlates of love… they don’t explain love. Love is ultimately a spiritual experience.” (06:51)
  • Hard Problem of Consciousness: Chopra insists neural activity can reflect but not explain consciousness.

3. Memory, Death, and the Nature of Existence

[08:34–12:27]

• Chopra explains death with a memory analogy: memories only “exist” when evoked in consciousness.
  • “Where do you go after you die? Where those memories are now. You don’t go anywhere. You’re there now.” (10:12)
• Minhaj references the song “Heaven Is a Place on Earth”; Chopra agrees heaven is “here.”
  • “You’re nothing that appears as everything. You’re nothing.” (11:59)

4. Opting Out of Worldly Madness

[12:27–14:22]

• Chopra’s worldview: “The world is insane. It’s run by gangsters.” (12:31)
• He advocates “checking out emotionally from the insanity of the world...otherwise you’d be sucked into the insanity itself.” (13:13)
• Minhaj asks when Chopra “opted out”; Chopra says after residency, joining “a motley group of sages, geniuses and psychotics.” (13:27)

5. Transcendence, Meditation & Spiritual Experience

[15:27–19:35]

• Transcendence is about realizing perceived reality is a “hallucination”—what is real is formless, pure consciousness.
• Humor, Chopra says, is the “only spiritual experience” comfortable with ambiguity and paradox.
• Minaj challenges Chopra’s involvement in, and departure from, the Transcendental Meditation movement; Chopra left due to cultish phenomena in organized spirituality:
  • “What made me go was a cultish phenomenon that comes with organized spirituality or organized religion.” (18:35)
• Various means of transcendence: mantra meditation, sex, music, poetry.

6. Yoga ‘Flying’ and the Limits of ‘Magic’

[19:47–22:35]

• They discuss the Natural Law Party and “yogic flying” (a TM legacy).
  • Chopra: “Your body lifts off the ground and you’re quite surprised when it happens. But if you get attached to the phenomenon, it doesn’t happen. The explanation is: it’s a neurophysiological, neuromuscular phenomenon.” (21:01)

7. Mind-Body Connection & the Science of Aging

[26:05–30:22]

• Chopra insists thoughts, feelings, and memories manifest in the body.
  • “Mind body connection is very clear.“
  • Minhaj jokes about his back pain; Chopra says: “Your back pain is probably inflexibility of attitude.” (26:57)
• On aging:
  • “I’m now 79...my biological age is much younger than that. I have no disease. I’m totally healthy...your biological age can be 20 years younger than your chronological age.” (29:27)
  • “If you’re emotionally stopped developing...at eight years, you can run for office, as you know. That’s a qualification for politics.” (28:29)

8. Vaccines, Wellness Trends, and Celebrity Pseudoscience

[31:32–33:46]

• Minhaj asks about anti-vax trends and “Make America Healthy Again.”
• Chopra strongly supports vaccines, drawing on his experience in India:
  • “You can’t tell me that vaccines don’t work. I saw many people die and many people saved.” (32:15)
• He warns: “Don’t get bamboozled by these celebrities who make statements from very limited knowledge.” (32:57)

9. Reflections on Fame, Creativity & Existential Angst

[33:46–42:26]

• Minhaj recalls discovering Chopra on Oprah.
• Chopra’s view on the current cultural madness: “People always have had biases and prejudices...If you believe in race, then you’re a racist, period...What we call religion is largely cultural mythology.” (34:26)
• AI and the future: “AI is a double-edged sword...You are going to see a cultural, biological and social evolution and a world that even Homer never dreamed of. If we survive, AI is unstoppable because humans are basically toolmakers...” (35:17–36:55)
• Chopra discusses his friendship with Michael Jackson:
  • “When he started to dance or sing or recite poetry, it was transcendent. It was amazing.” (37:51)
  • He shares Jackson was deeply sensitive about the world’s suffering.
• On the “wisdom of insecurity” and the dark side of celebrity:
  • “There’s a lot of creativity and a lot of existential angst.” (42:03)
  • “Is fame a curse if you take yourself seriously? Yes. Because then you’re beholden to the world.” (42:12)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Suffering:
  • “The hallucination that we are separate selves. The socially induced concept that we are separate beings.”
    — Deepak Chopra (05:08)
• On Death & Existence:
  • “Where do you go after you die? Where those memories are now. You don’t go anywhere. You’re there now. This right now is a hallucination.”
    — Deepak Chopra (10:12)
• On Inner Peace:
  • “Inner peace is your natural state before it’s bamboozled by your conditioned mind.”
    — Deepak Chopra (05:49)
• On Transcendence:
  • “If you can see, touch it, taste it, smell it, conceptualize it, imagine it, think about it, it’s not real. What is real is the source of conception and perception, which is pure being.”
    — Deepak Chopra (15:41)
• On Fame:
  • “Is fame a curse if you take yourself seriously? Yes. Because you’re beholden to the world.”
    — Deepak Chopra (42:12)
• On Mind-Body Connection:
  • “Your back pain is probably inflexibility of attitude.”
    — Deepak Chopra (26:57)
  • Minhaj responds, in his self-deprecating style: “That’s triggering. I’ve been told that since I was a child.” (12:06)
• On AI and Technology:
  • “AI is a double-edged sword...humans are basically toolmakers...AI is unstoppable...”
    — Deepak Chopra (35:17–36:55)
• On Love:
  • “Love is ultimately a spiritual experience.”
    — Deepak Chopra (06:51)

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Noteworthy Segments & Timestamps

| Segment | Timestamp | |---------------------------------------------|-------------| | Deepak vs. Deepak AI, quantum lateness | 02:04–03:00 | | Rapid-fire spiritual housekeeping | 04:57–07:35 | | Memory, death, heaven, nothingness | 08:34–12:27 | | Opting out of worldly madness | 12:27–14:22 | | Transcendence and meditation | 15:27–19:35 | | Yogic flying and Natural Law Party | 19:47–22:35 | | Mind-body, back pain, and aging | 26:05–30:22 | | Vaccines, wellness, and celebrity science | 31:32–33:46 | | Reflections on fame and Michael Jackson | 33:46–42:26 | | AI, technology, and the future | 35:17–36:55 | | The wisdom of insecurity and existential angst | 41:43–42:12 |

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Tone & Style Highlight

• Hasan Minhaj: Playful, irreverent, occasionally self-deprecating, always genuinely curious:

  • “I like that answer more than the answer you gave me because that’s making me feel like it’s not my fault.” (03:00)

• Deepak Chopra: Serene, cryptic, philosophical, with flashes of dry wit:

  • “You’re nothing that appears as everything. You’re nothing.” (11:59)
  • “Your back pain is probably inflexibility of attitude.” (26:57)

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Conclusion

This episode is a spirited, unfiltered conversation blending philosophy, science, spirituality, and satire. Minhaj’s pointed curiosity draws out Chopra’s distinctive worldview: that consciousness, not material reality, is the foundation of existence—and that peace, health, and even “heaven” are not just attainable but are our essential states. Along the way, they detour through wellness fads, celebrity friendships, yogic flying, the perils of fame, and the existential madness of contemporary life. Listeners are left with more questions than answers, but perhaps—as Minhaj suggests—that’s the point.

“Ultimately, Hasan Minhaj Doesn’t Know!”

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Transcript

[A]

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[B]

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[A]

Lemonade right now. One of the benefits listed on your website is unlimited access to deepakchopra. AI. AI is coming to take our job. You're like that. I'll beat you to it. I'm Deepak Chopra AI. I'm going to ask the real Deepak Chopra question and see what you say. And let's see what the AI says. Real Deepak Chopra. How would you use quantum physics to explain my tendency to always be late?

[C]

I wouldn't. Quantum physics has no explanation for you being late other than you're a lazy guy.

[A]

Love that. Let's Take a look at what AI has to say. Your lateness is not a flaw. It's a quantum fluctuation in the field of possibility. When you run late, you are simply collapsing the wave function of time at a moment more aligned with your higher vibrational frequency. The universe isn't linear, it's synchronistic. You don't arrive late, you arrive precisely when your consciousness is ready to experience arrival.

[C]

Well, that is more accurate, actually.

[A]

Look, I like that answer more than the answer that you gave me because that answer is making me feel like it's not my fault.

[C]

Okay?

[A]

When people describe something as New Agey or woo woo, they're talking about Deepak Chopra. He's the OG New Age guru. I'm talking yoga, meditation, the word holistic. He was the spiritual bridge from eastern traditions to Santa Monica mommies. And in the past three decades, he has built a wellness empire, launching speaking tours, yoga retreats, a line of supplements, meditation albums, meditation apps, an AI chatbot of himself in publishing over 8, 80 books. And while some people have accused him of being a grifter who sells magic beans to rich people, I wanted to hear him out because he's Deepak Chopra and he still posts stuff like this on main. So I sat down with Deepak to talk about his perspective on the modern world.

[C]

The world is insane. It's run by gangsters.

[A]

His perspective on me, you're nothing. And some other stuff which honestly, I didn't understand.

[C]

We are fictional characters in a collective dreamscape which we call Planet Earth. And we're part of a universe. All of that is a hallucination.

[A]

Now, to be clear, we shot this interview before Deepak was mentioned in the Epstein files, so we did not get into that. But we did talk about his friendship with Michael Jackson. So that's equally kind of weird and should be interrogated. My man runs in some wild circles. Let's talk about it.

[C]

Hurry. Right away. No delays. Stop there. Make your daddy glad. You have hats on your lap.

[A]

We are doing this show in 2025 in the new digital reality and future that we exist in. People want their knowledge and short form micro content. So we are birds and we're going to chew up the food and feed it to the baby birds in advance. Let's do a little bit of spiritual housekeeping with spiritual rapid fire.

[C]

Okay?

[A]

I'm going to lay out some concepts that you've talked about before in your work and you give me an explanation of what those things are.

[C]

Okay?

[A]

What is the source of all suffering?

[C]

The hallucination that we are separate selves. The socially induced concept that we are separate beings.

[A]

I wrote my father as the source of all my suffering.

[C]

Okay, Some people will say my girlfriend.

[A]

Sure. Or boyfriend or partner.

[C]

But see, then that's because you think your father's a person and you are a person.

[A]

I mean, I never thought he was a person. I always knew he was a monster.

[C]

Okay, but I hope you're not serious.

[A]

I mean, I'm seriously unserious.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

In a world of suffering, is inner peace a privilege or a duty?

[C]

Inner peace is your natural state before it's bamboozled by your conditioned mind. So I'm always at peace. I've never experienced stress.

[A]

Can science explain love?

[C]

It can explain the neural correlates of love. So when you. When you love someone, there's a phenomenon called limbic resonance. Your emotional brain and their emotional brain resonates. And then there's something called limbic regulation. And then there's something called limbic revision. Your neural networks synchronize so much that you feel one with the other person. The lover and the beloved become one. These are the neural correlates of love. But the neural correlates are chemical electrochemical activity. They don't explain love. Love is ultimately a spiritual experience.

[A]

Do neural correlates have sex?

[C]

The neural correlates can quantify or measure the activity that we call sex. Neural correlates record every experience, but they're not the experience. This is called the hard problem of consciousness. In science, hard problem means if the brain creates consciousness, how. How do neurochemicals explain thought or feelings or emotions or imagination or insight or intuition or creativity or self awareness? They don't.

[A]

Have you seen Shen Yun?

[C]

I know of it, yeah. Why?

[A]

I was going to ask you what it's about. I have no idea. I've seen it everywhere. Yeah, but I have no idea what it's about. I thought maybe you've seen it.

[C]

I have no idea why we ex.

[A]

I mean, so you're not even worried about Shen Yun?

[C]

Why worry about banal things? We do not know why we exist. You can make up anything. You know God, and then you say, oh, who's God? In the west, it's a dead white male. In the Eastern traditions, hundreds of these men and women. But ultimately there's no explanation for existence. Or even more important, our awareness of existence. So the big mystery is existence. But then how come we are aware that we exist? That's an even bigger mystery. Because if you weren't aware that you exist, then for all practical Purposes. There's no existence fair.

[A]

What happens when we die?

[C]

Let me ask you a question.

[A]

Sure.

[C]

What did you have for breakfast this morning?

[A]

So, this morning I had. So bodegas here in New York have pretty good egg sandwiches. So I had a fried egg sandwich. Both English muffins, lightly toasted. After it's toasted, I had my man put the butter on both the top and the bottom, respectively, sliced off avocado.

[C]

Okay, I get it.

[A]

With the. Okay.

[C]

Sorry. What was the last movie you saw?

[A]

Last movie I saw was this movie called Begonia. And it was fucking gnarly.

[C]

Okay. Can you remember any episode from your teenage years?

[A]

Unfortunately, many. And it's a little bit too vivid.

[C]

Okay. So now, where were these memories before I asked you the question?

[A]

In my mind. Which serves as kind of like my own internal ram. Again, this is. This is what I'm assuming.

[C]

So if I went into your brain.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

Would I find the memory of breakfast or those teenage years or what you were doing at 6 o' clock last night?

[A]

Yeah. I have no idea.

[C]

You wouldn't?

[A]

Yeah. I mean. And I just want to make this very clear. We are on YouTube and I just make it perfectly clear. I do not know.

[C]

Okay. Yeah. So the memory was triggered by my asking the question. So the memory doesn't exist in your brain till I ask you the question. As soon as I ask you the question. Neurons all over fire.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And you say, oh, that I had a bagel or. This is traumatic memory from my teenagers. The memories in consciousness. And where do you go after you die? Where those memories are now. So you don't go anywhere. You're there now. Okay. This right now is a hallucination.

[A]

Oh, you believe in the Belinda Carlisle theory.

[C]

I believe in my theory.

[A]

But you know the Belinda Carlisle theory, correct?

[C]

No, I don't.

[A]

You've heard it?

[C]

No.

[A]

Oh, baby. Do you know what that's worth? Ooh, heaven is a place on earth.

[C]

Okay, it's here. Okay. Here. That's it. So, memories.

[A]

You want to come in?

[C]

Sorry about that.

[A]

No, no worries.

[C]

No worries.

[A]

Who knows if that even happened? Did that happen?

[C]

So, bottom line, you're there now. You don't go anywhere. What happens to this space? I'm sorry about.

[A]

No, no, no, no. No worries. Austin. Do you want to fix it again? This is good comedy.

[C]

Yeah, I won't gesticulate as much.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, sure, sure, sure.

[C]

What happens to this space in this room if the walls are destroyed?

[A]

Depends on which construction crew is breaking through that wall.

[C]

Yeah, but the space doesn't go anywhere, right? Sure.

[A]

The space is still here.

[C]

What happens to you and me if our lines of you're speaking on the phone to me? And if the Internet doesn't work, what happens to you and me?

[A]

I mean, we're still there.

[C]

We're still there. So nothing happens to you. When you die, the instrument for communication disappears.

[A]

So am I something or am I nothing?

[C]

You're nothing that appears as everything. You're nothing.

[A]

See, now that's triggering because I've been told that since I was a child. See, what you just said, that was triggering, that made me fire synapse and remember my job.

[C]

No thing is everything because nothing is the formless consciousness that modifies itself as form and phenomena.

[A]

How do we find peace when the world is going crazy?

[C]

Our essential state is peace until we are bamboozled by the world. So if you get involved in the insanity of the world, then you declare your own insanity as well. The world is insane. War, terrorism, climate change, social, economic injustice, chronic disease, it's run by gangsters. And if you don't think it's insane, then you're also declaring your insanity. You have to check out emotionally from the insanity of the world, otherwise you'd be sucked into the insanity itself.

[A]

Now, what time did you go downstairs to the hotel lobby and check out? When did that happen for you, really? Was there like a year where you said, I'm opting out?

[C]

I opted out a long time ago. Really? I opted out.

[A]

Is there a particular memory where you go, I can't do this anymore?

[C]

Yeah. And shortly after my residency in medical school, then residency, I was part of the insanity. Then I checked out, which means I joined a motley group of sages, geniuses and psychotics. You have to be one.

[A]

That was in med school.

[C]

That wasn't in med school. That was during my late residency fellowship years.

[A]

What do you feel your purpose is?

[C]

My purpose always has been to figure out the hard problem of consciousness. And then I realized that it's a non problem. There's no hard problem of consciousness. The hard problem is matter. Why do you experience matter? What when it actually doesn't exist?

[A]

What is my purpose?

[C]

Your purpose? I think to make people laugh.

[A]

Yeah, I think so.

[C]

So I, you know, I thought always thought humor is the only spiritual experience we can have because it's comfortable with ambiguity and contradiction and paradox. Yeah.

[A]

Multitudes.

[C]

Yeah. If I have to explain a joke, then it's not a joke 100%.

[A]

Or earlier when you asked me, are you being serious? I said, I think I'm being seriously unserious.

[C]

That's right.

[A]

You know, we're talking at a very pivotal time. This is big. This is a huge announcement. Ladies and gentlemen, Right now you have introduced a new membership on your website, deepbookchopra.com I was told by your team to plug this deepbookchopra.com Normally $29.99 a month, but now $9.99 for a limited time only. Benefits include extensive meditation library, immersive learning experiences, and live sessions with Deepak Chopra. Now, I am having this live experience of consciousness with you. Can we waive that fee? For me?

[C]

Sure. For you, I'll waive anything.

[A]

Great. Because I do want enlightenment, but I am also cheap.

[C]

You're inexpensive, not cheap.

[A]

That's a nicer way to say that.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Some people say frugal. The demand for what you do is oftentimes you are asked about the quest for transcendence. But my question is, what's so great about transcendence?

[C]

When you transcend, you realize that everything that is perceived or conceived is not real. So if you can see, touch it, taste it, smell it, conceptualize it, imagine it, think about it, it's not real. What is real is the source of. Of conception and perception, which is pure being, which is transcendent, which simply means it transcends the theater of space, time, and causality. So right now, we are fictional characters in a collective dreamscape which we call Planet Earth. And we're part of a universe. All of that is a hallucination.

[A]

Yeah. Do you say that at Whole Foods when they say paper or plastic?

[C]

I say, no, plastic.

[A]

Paper, please.

[C]

Not even paper. Let me eat here. Whole Foods, you know, is a good name because the whole universe is one thing. Zero is equal to infinity is equal to one. Nothing is everything, and it's all one. You've heard the joke, right? What did the spiritual seeker say to the guy at the hot dog or at the hot dog stand?

[A]

No, I didn't hear this joke.

[C]

Give me one with everything.

[A]

Oh, that's great. Didn't. I hope you understand why I was asking this transcendence thing, because this is a big deal. People are seeking transcendence. They are chasing transcendence.

[C]

It's who we are. It's who we are before we fall asleep.

[A]

Okay, but you. You support meditation helping you achieve transcendence one way. Got it. But not Transcendental Meditation.

[C]

No, that's possibly, you know, that's a trade name.

[A]

Okay. You used to be involved in that in the 90s, but not anymore. But it is scientific.

[C]

It works. Transcendent meditation works.

[A]

Oh, it does work.

[C]

Oh yeah, absolutely. The science. There's a good scientific basis for how you can transcend thought by using a mantra, which is. Doesn't have a history. So mantra is an instrument of the mind that helps you go beyond the mind. It takes you to a place where there's no mantra and no thought. It works. But that's one way of transcending. Sex is another way of transcending. Music is another way of transcending. Poetry is another way of.

[A]

But if it works, why did you leave?

[C]

Why did I leave the transcendent movement? I don't believe in organizations. I don't have one myself.

[A]

Do you know there was literally a political party called the Natural Law Party which was an offshoot of tm?

[C]

Yes, I did.

[A]

Yeah, they were formed a couple years before you left. Was that making you go? This is getting a little wacky.

[C]

What made me go was a cultish phenomenon that comes with organized spirituality or organized religion.

[A]

My YouTube algo feeding me up some stuff. So I decided to take a class. Now was it weird that when they asked me for my email address, I gave them my Yahoo email address, not my Gmail email address. I think from the jump already my spidey sense was off.

[C]

I give my non local email address which is what? Outside space time? No, location.

[A]

That's great. And that probably would have waived the thousand dollar fee.

[C]

That's right.

[A]

They charged me. But then I went in, this was at like an office in Santa Monica and I was like, hey, I googled some stuff about tm and they. And the teacher, she was wearing a big scarf, she goes, don't google stuff, don't google stuff. So yeah, that was a bit of a red flag for me. But I'm down, I'm down. Bluetooth on. I'm open.

[C]

Listen, there are benefits to that meditation too. Yeah. Forget the other. Yeah, you know, meditation helps. There's lots of good research on that.

[A]

Yeah. I found a clip of one of the Natural Law Party representatives. He's a Canadian magician named Doug Henning. And I just wanted to play this for you. Hello everyone. I'm an expert in making things disappear. My Natural Law Party will make the problems of the nation disappear as darkness disappears with the onset of light coherence and national consciousness will be created by a few groups of experts in natural law in the country practicing Maharishi's, transcendental meditation and yogic flying. Stress, strain and problems in national life will be eliminated. Scientific research Shows that yogic flying produces increased balance, Brain coherence and harmony is generated throughout society. The programs of my natural law party are scientific and reliable. I invite you to place your confidence in us. Did you know Doug?

[C]

Yeah, he's bussed since then.

[A]

Yeah, he permanently disappeared in 2000.

[C]

Yes, he did. He, yeah.

[A]

Died.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

What was going on there?

[C]

That technique where the body lifts off is mentioned in a chapter in the yoga sutras of Patanjali where a combination of intention, sustained meditation and transcendence leads to this phenomenon called hopping. I've experienced it and it's real, it's documented, it's ancient and it's written about in the traditions. So what really happens is it triggers some neuromuscular activity. Your body lifts off the ground and you're quite surprised when it happens. But then if you get attached to the phenomenon, it doesn't happen. The explanation is it's a neurophysiological, neuromuscular phenomenon.

[A]

So you're almost vibing and so you start almost like bunny hopping.

[C]

You would start bunny hopping? Yeah. And it doesn't matter how heavy you are or all that. That's a full chapter on these techniques in the yoga sutras. It's called Vibhutis or siddhis. And so if you go to India, you know, you go to the place in Rishikesh or you'll see a lot. It's like a carnival of, as I said, sages, psychotics and geniuses.

[A]

Much like stand up comedy. Health issues don't follow a 9 to 5 schedule. Like throwing your back out, teaching your kids to somersault. They want to be secret agents for some reason. Burning yourself while cooking. Microwaving. Is cooking okay? Or giving yourself a migraine from doom scrolling until 3am I'm an adult, I can do what I want. Thankfully, with Zocdoc you can find and book a provider 24 hours a day, seven days a week. There's no catch. ZocDoc is a free app and website that helps you find and book high quality and network doctors. They've got virtual appointments, in person options and most importantly, verified inpatient reviews so you know what you're signing up for. Appointments made through Zocdoc happen fast, typically within just 24 to 72 hours of booking. Here's what I love most. You can even score same day appointments. Your boy is not known for his patients. Stop putting off those doctor's appointments and go to zocdoc.comhusn to find and instantly book a top rated doctor today that is z o c-o c.com husan this message is sponsored by Zocdoc. Now I want to make something clear. You're not a political leader, you're not a religious leader, but you are part of a network of over a billion people. And some people would call it a cult. That cult is called LinkedIn. Dr. Chopra, what happens there on LinkedIn? What are these executives looking for?

[C]

I offered a course called the Soul of Leadership. So I taught that course at Kellogg, at Harvard, at many places. And then I finally actually put it online and started to get invited by LinkedIn actually to teach the course to executives. And right now I offer it free.

[A]

What are they looking for? They want to transcend the P and L sheet?

[C]

No, they want to be effective leaders and not the kind of leaders we have today. So, you know, the course is based on basically shared vision, complementing each other's strengths, creating an emotional bond and maximum diversity. But also on listening skills, on how do you create emotional empowerment, on expanding capacities like intuition, creativity and vision, on, on creating plans that are measurable, on taking responsibility for your decisions and harnessing the power of good luck or synchronicity.

[A]

How do you get them to fight their internal desire to achieve? You're dealing with type A, high achieving, sociopathic zero sum game psychos. How do you get them to do things that are antithetical self select themselves?

[C]

I don't get them to do anything. It's a, you know, anytime I teach a course, there are certain people who are naturally inclined to go that way. So you know, when you go to LinkedIn, you get a bio or a profile. I help them create something called a soul profile. You know, what is meaning and purpose mean to you? What's a good friendship? How do you relate emotionally to others? Who are your heroes in history, mythology, religion? What's a good way to tell a story? Because people don't buy products or services, they buy stories. How do you create an effective brand, those kinds of things?

[A]

Let's talk about the mind body connection. It seems obvious that our brain, which is inside of our body, is connected to our body. Obviously.

[C]

Yeah. Otherwise you can't speak, you can't wiggle your toes.

[A]

Sure. And I'm doing it right now.

[C]

Yeah, that's mind body connection.

[A]

But why do people think the mind and body are separate?

[C]

They're not. They're not. You know, one's a perceptual activity, the other's a cognitive activity and they're both fluctuations in consciousness.

[A]

You've argued at times that literally everything that happens in our mind is represented somewhere in our body. Our thoughts, our feelings, our memories exist somewhere in our body. Is that what my lower back pain is? Or is it because I'm 40 and I still play basketball?

[C]

Your back pain is probably inflexibility of attitude.

[A]

You think it's attitude or not? My L4 and the DIS. Degeneration. That's happening because of time.

[C]

Read a book on that. There's a very famous book, bestseller. Inflexibility can give you back pain. Inflexibility in attitude or being rigidly attached to your point of view can give you that. Mind body connection is very clear. Think of something that give you immense distress. Maybe think of your father. Okay, now, where do you feel it?

[A]

I mean, it's everywhere.

[C]

Mind, body connection.

[A]

Okay, let's. Let's transcend and get me back to here. One of the things that you. You've talked about is this mind body connection.

[C]

And even that's a misnomer. They're one.

[A]

Yeah, but you. You, Deepak, I gotta give you credit. You've scrapped with scientists. You've butted heads with them. In your 1993 hit book.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

You write ageless body types the ageless body. This is. This is a classic.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay, let's cue it up. This is for our audience that doesn't know human aging is fluid and changeable. It can speed up, slow down and stop for a time, even reverse itself. In that same book you continue to write, by consciously using our awareness, we can influence the way we age biologically. You can tell your body not to age.

[C]

So I'm now 79 years. Chronologically, yes. My biological age is much younger than that. I have no disease. I'm totally healthy. And that's my choice. There's something called chronological age. There's something called biological age. There's something called psychological age, emotional age. If you're emotionally stopped developing in this country at eight years, you can run for office, as you know. Yeah. You know, that's a qualification for politics.

[A]

Or being great on tv, of course.

[C]

So there's emotional age, there's psychological age, there's spiritual age, which means your spirit doesn't age.

[A]

People have said you have an old soul. This person has an old soul. Or they're wise beyond their years.

[C]

Their soul is timeless.

[A]

But do you really believe that? You really believe you can Benjamin Button yourself?

[C]

No. You can reverse your age by 10, 15 years. That's well documented. Your biological age can be 20 years younger than your chronological age. And Vice versa. If you heavy smoker, drugs, alcohol, stressed, you could be 50. Chronologically, but biologically, you could be 80.

[A]

How old do you feel?

[C]

Well, chronologically, I'm 79. Biologically, I'm probably in my 50s. Psycho.

[A]

You look great. You look great.

[C]

Yeah, I feel great. I mean, I do 10,000 steps a day, two hours of intense yoga, and I'm very healthy now. Emotionally, I don't know where. I'm probably 20. And spiritually, I'm timeless.

[A]

What a bar. We're living in a moment right now in America, and it's called the Maha moment. Make America healthy again. This is really interesting because you are someone who has devoted their life to both becoming a physician, regrettably, and then you pivoted into spirituality.

[C]

Listen, I still am a professor at Mount Sinai in New York. Yeah. And I teach at uscsd. I have a full professorship at University of Central Florida.

[A]

Do you like teaching?

[C]

And.

[A]

Yeah, this is a lot. This is a lot of.

[C]

And I. These are a lot of. I'm licensed and three states, and I still keep up my CME credits. So I'm. I'm still a position.

[A]

What's the reason why I do that? I think Gotham's doing great. Kids are great.

[C]

Yeah. No, I like to know what's going on in the field. And there's a lot going on in the field. A lot of it is validating what I was saying 30 years ago.

[A]

Sorry, I was getting a little distracted there. But we are living through the Maha moment in America right now. Make America healthy again. The CDC is essentially anti vax now. What are your thoughts on the Maha movement and what RFK Jr is doing?

[C]

It's bizarre. It's dangerous. I had a conversation with the current Mr. Kennedy 20 years ago. He came to my office because he thought I was going to support his stance on vaccines. And I had to tell him that I grew up in India, where I saw my colleagues, my peers, my uncles and aunts die of polio, of smallpox, of even things like measles and diphtheria, of tuberculosis. You can't tell me that vaccines don't work. I saw many people die and many people saved.

[A]

You want to know a fun fact about RFK Jr. He actually the Michigan political party that nominated RFK and put him on the ballot for president in 2024. It was the Natural Law Party. Full circle moment.

[C]

Interesting. Yeah, it's interesting. See, people get hung up on words like nature or natural law or natural treatments. There's a treatment for acute illness that is modern science. That you cannot avoid. But you can also recognize that lifestyle makes a big difference in everything.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

And so you don't have to go extreme one way or another. Vaccines work, period. And actually now we are going to see new era because of messenger RNA and technology. You're going to see vaccines for cancer, you're going to see vaccines for autoimmune illness, you're going to see vaccines for Alzheimer's. It's all going to happen in the next few years. So don't, don't get bamboozled by these celebrities who make statements from very limited knowledge. And that's what happens on Instagram and YouTube. You have to be very careful. And you can check out data now very easily. You don't even have to Google it. You can go, AI can help you do that.

[A]

Do you want to know when I first discovered you? So this was in the 90s. I discovered you, I came home after school and you were on Oprah.

[C]

While you're holding that, still mentally have the idea, it's moving back and forth now. Once it's doing that, just change the idea in your mind that instead of swinging it like that, it's going to start swinging like this in a different direction. Oh my goodness. Now see, now this is amazing because if you can do this with a.

[A]

String, it means you can do it with your life.

[C]

I told her if she married me, she could be Oprah Chopra.

[A]

Do you feel like things are uniquely crazier now or were they equally crazier then?

[C]

They're more obviously crazier now. I think it's because they're more aware of social media, etc. People always have had biases and prejudices. And, you know, I think if you believe in race, then you're a racist, period. I mean, you know, what we call religion is largely cultural mythology. Racism is there everywhere in the world. And there are pockets in America where people don't even have a passport. They haven't. They, you know, New York City and Los Angeles is not how you judge America. Go to middle America and you'll see what America is.

[A]

Oh, I've been, I tour the country. Do you feel hopeful about AI helping people?

[C]

AI is double edged sword. You know, you can't stop the progress of technology. Between 1887 and 1903, humans gave to the world the light bulb, the automobile, the airplane and the telephone. So that's 20 years. Okay. If you had been shipwrecked in 1885 and you came to New York City 20 years later, you wouldn't recognize the city. Instead of horses and carriages, you would see these automobiles. You'd see people talking on the phone. 20 years cultural and social leapfrog. Now we are seeing the same thing, but even more. Our neural networks are changing as a result of all this data and information that we're getting. And this is just the beginning. AI is going to lead to ambient computing. VR is going to lead to immersive experiences. You are going to see a cultural, biological and social evolution and a world that even Homer never dreamed of. If we survive, AI is unstoppable because humans are basically toolmakers. Started doing that even before we started to walk upright.

[A]

Are you saying Homer Simpson predicted all of this?

[C]

No, I said even Homer never dreamed.

[A]

Homer never dreamed of this.

[C]

What we are going to actualize in the future, a world that you cannot is beyond your imagination.

[A]

Got it?

[C]

That's what I'm saying.

[A]

Homer Simpson.

[C]

Homer the Greek.

[A]

Oh, you're talking about that. The Greek philosopher.

[C]

Guy philosopher who wrote the Odyssey and the Iliad, or the sages of the Upanishads who wrote all these amazing scenarios in their imagination. What the world will evolve into is beyond your imagination. Unless we go extinct. No, I thought we could sleepwalk to extinction.

[A]

I thought you were referring to Homer, who was part of Fox Animations, hit animation blocks. The Simpsons, then followed by Futurama, which in both are fire. Honestly, Futurama goes really hard right now, too. We are living during a moment where many iconic Americans have died. Robert Redford recently passed away. Dick Cheney passed away today.

[C]

Yeah, I saw that.

[A]

And you knew Michael Jackson very well. What was that like?

[C]

Michael after the Pepsi episode, the accident when he burnt his hair and scalp. He was pumped with a lot of narcotics and he succumbed to addiction. And then he was very interesting person. He used to tell me, I want to go to the Valley of Death, see it, and return from there. And so he convinced his doctor to give him propofol. And that happened to be an overdose. Propofol is an anesthetic. But Michael was a very special person. Actually, when I was with him and when he started to dance or sing or recite poetry, it was transcendent. It was amazing.

[A]

Have you seen the meme of you and him?

[C]

I have not seen this.

[A]

Take a look. I met Michael Jackson. This is on Reddit. This is very popular. This is a meme of you and him. I met Michael more than 20 years ago. I went to. I think this is a Rolling Stone interview. I think this was an interview that you did. I met Michael More than 20 years ago, I went to meditation at Neverland. He was very shy, very introverted, but very curious about consciousness and spirituality, you know, while the world called him weird, he wondered why the world was so weird. He'd ask me, why do people go to war? Why is there genocide? What's happening in Sudan? Why have we killed the environment? Why is there racism and bigotry and hatred and prejudice? We talked about starving children in Mumbai. And he would start to cry or start to talk about trophy hunting in Canada, of the grizzly bear. And he would start to come cry. In his mind, the world was psychotic. Deepak Chopra.

[C]

It's true. He sent me a tape 48 hours before he died. And he left a message on my voicemail those days that he had written a song or a poem on the environment called Planet Earth. My home, my place, A capricious anomaly in the sea of space. Go to YouTube. I made him recite that once, and it's one of his poems. He was deeply concerned about the world. He was an exceptionally spiritual person, and he was very delicate, very fragile.

[A]

Why did he reach out to you? What did he want to know?

[C]

He was a very creative person, and I don't know why he reached out to me. Just called me on the phone one day and said, can you come to Neverland? Those were interesting days, you know. Similarly, Marlon Brando called me and Elizabeth Taylor all through the grapevine.

[A]

Was Neverland weird? Was Neverland weird?

[C]

It was like a child's dream, you know, with trains and toy trains, but real trains and, you know, chimpanzees and snakes and all kinds of stuff. Yeah, it was. It was like Disney World, but on a very special level. Even you wouldn't find that that kind of.

[A]

I mean, we obviously know that it was a childlike place, and we know why it was a childlike place, and that's disturbing. But at any point were you like, I gotta get out of here.

[C]

After a few days maybe? Yeah. In the beginning. Quite interesting. I mean, the first time I went to him, he took me to his movie theater. He had a jukebox there. He gave me a quarter and said, play your favorite song. So I played Saturday Night, you know, Saturday Night Fever?

[A]

Sure.

[C]

The Bee Gees?

[A]

Sure.

[C]

He said, not one of mine. I said, you asked me my favorite song.

[A]

Wow, you. You started with the roast?

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

So he said, not mine. I said, no, this is my favorite song. He said, okay, play it. And then he started to dance to it, and it was extraordinary. This is a very interesting man.

[A]

It was just you two?

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. What are the allegories that you've learned about fame and fortune, being around all these people for the past three decades that you'd like to tell the TikTok.

[C]

Era, I would say driven by the wisdom of insecurity.

[A]

And what's at the end of that journey that you found being around?

[C]

There's a lot of creativity and a lot of existential angst.

[A]

Did you feel bad for a lot of the people?

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Oh, man.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Did you ever tell them it doesn't have to be this way?

[C]

Of course. Is fame a curse if you take yourself seriously? Yes. Because then you're beholden to the world.

[A]

So what's next? What are you having for dinner tonight?

[C]

I might skip it.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

I have one meal a day.

[A]

You had that before our convo?

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Mr. Chopra, on behalf of myself and this plastic plant, I wanted to say thank you.

[C]

Thank you for having me.

[A]

Ladies and gentlemen, Mr. Deepak Chopra.

[C]

Hurry. Right away. No delays, are there. Make your daddy glad to have had such a lad.

[A]

If I transcend the earthly realm, can I bring my phone?

[C]

You're funny. Really?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

If you haven't subscribed to Lemonada Premium yet, now's the perfect time. Because guess what? You can listen completely ad free. Plus you'll unlock exclusive bonus content like Halle Berry on how to be a good partner during menopause or Mehdi Husson on the dumbing down of media clips you won't hear anywhere else. Just tap that subscribe button on Apple Podcasts or head to lemonadapremium.com to subscribe on any other app. That's lemonadapremium.com. don't miss out. Let's talk about.

[C]

I have, by the way, what's up? I have arguments with my AI.

[A]

Sure.

[C]

Just to test it out.

[A]

Oh, boy.

[C]

Yeah, So I actually, if you go to my Instagram, you can see me having an argument.

[A]

You get into the arguments with that?

[C]

With my. Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

Oh, Deepak, don't do that.

[C]

Why not?

[A]

Because you're gonna drive yourself nuts.

[C]

No, I learn, okay?