Malala and Hasan Squash Their Beef

Summary

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Podcast Summary

Hasan Minhaj Doesn't Know

Episode: Malala and Hasan Squash Their Beef
Host: Hasan Minhaj (186k Films)
Guest: Malala Yousafzai
Date: December 3, 2025

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Main Theme & Purpose

This episode unites comedian Hasan Minhaj and Nobel laureate Malala Yousafzai, finally addressing a humorous social media “beef” that began with an Instagram follow mishap, and deep-dives into Malala’s new memoir, Finding My Way. The conversation takes a heartfelt, honest, and playful look at Malala’s transition from international icon to college student, her quest for normalcy, friendship, her public and private selves, activism, and the complexities of being a brown woman in the western gaze. Throughout, Hasan and Malala blend vulnerability, comedy, and unapologetic truth-telling.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Squashing the Instagram “Beef”

• Hasan recounts (01:58) his stand-up joke about Malala following him on Instagram but not vice versa. Malala responded via an Instagram poll: “Should I unfollow Hasan?” with 39% voting, “Who is this man?”
• Hasan’s Apology Video: He begged for a follow-back, which Malala ignored. This sets the playful, self-aware tone (03:00).
  • Quote:
    • “I then posted an apology video begging her to follow me back. I'm sorry, Malala, follow me back. She did not follow me back.” – Hasan (03:00)
• In the Studio: They confirm they now mutually follow each other and reflect on the absurdity of their “feud.”
  • Quote:
    • “You took a fight with the wrong person, so I think it teaches you a lesson.” – Malala (04:49)

2. The Duality of Fame & Normalcy

• Malala shares the tension of being both a global activist and a regular student:
  • “I felt that I was reliving the childhood that I missed.” (08:22)
  • She discusses the expectations to act saintly, countered with her need for fun and normal experiences—pizza nights, late parties, and embracing student life.
• Jeans Controversy:
  • Backlash for wearing jeans instead of traditional dress; double standards within her family about Western versus traditional clothing.
  • “I told my parents that I am not here for some pilgrimage. I am here to study and be as every other student. So sorry. I'm not gonna apologize for this.” (14:03-14:49)

3. Finding Friendship & Belonging

• Malala describes the value and comfort of true friendship, especially with women, and how it requires less performance and more emotional honesty.
  • Reading from the memoir:
    • “My friends didn't care about my thoughts on global events or what I wore. They accepted my quirks and contradictions, my bad days and chronic tardiness.” (15:46)
  • On female vs. male friendship:
    • “I think women listen to each other. ... I just need to tell her that it's okay. Let's process this.” (18:59)
  • Hasan’s Commentary:
    • “Male friendship would be a whole lot better if we could just find a way as adult men to say three words that I have never heard from any of my adult friends... Are you okay?” (20:14)

4. Humor, Identity & Social Navigation

• Fashion Adventures & Awkwardness:
  • Malala details Googling “Selena Gomez casual” before college, trying jeans, and her attempts to fit in.
  • “Selena Gomez was helpful.” – Malala (12:58)
• Favorite Games/Segments:
  • "Red Flag, Green Flag" relationship game. Malala’s responses highlight her humor and practical judgment (26:03–29:33).
  • Memorable moment: Malala okays eight cats in a 500 sq ft apartment (“Still a green flag.” - 26:58).

5. Complexities of Public Persona

• Constant Focus on Trauma:
  • Malala opens up about always being asked about the shooting:
    • “What do you remember about the shooting? When I said that I couldn't remember anything…as if it was impolite of me not to recall my fear and suffering.” (36:27)
  • Hasan empathizes with being reduced to a headline rather than a full person.
• Reluctance to be Defined by Trauma:
  • Writing her second memoir as a reclaiming of her personal story, life, friendships, and love (37:10).

6. Activism, Authenticity & Frustration

• Insider View on World Leaders:
  • Malala talks about meeting politicians and celebrities who treat her with “porcelain doll” delicacy and her efforts to channel every encounter toward action for girls’ education (35:00-36:20).
  • A striking passage about the limits of global outrage and performative allyship:
    • “The worst moment of my life had not been a turning point, but a pause, an opportunity for leaders to act appalled that the Taliban would dare to shoot a child, throw some money into girls education, and then return to the business of growing economies and winning elections.” (42:41)
• Cynicism vs. Hope:
  • “Sometimes I feel all of it at the same time. But I still carry optimism within me…” (44:32)
  • Maintains optimism through solidarity with Afghan girls fighting for education under oppression.

7. Navigating Western Gazes & Islamophobia

• Malala discusses how her story is often used to reinforce stereotypes about Islam or South Asian culture, rather than recognizing the agency of women resisting oppressive systems (40:08–42:09).
  • “I do not want people to see the Taliban or the extremists to be the representatives of our culture. Actually, I want them to see me as a representative of my culture.” (41:05)

8. Realities of Advocacy

• Failures of the International Community:
  • Malala is candid about the lack of Western (especially U.S.) follow-through on protecting Afghan women and girls, especially after U.S. withdrawal:
    • “It was heartbreaking because a lot of the leaders were not responding, especially the men leaders in the world.” (47:07)
• How Change Happens:
  • Moves from youthful belief in fixing things with “one meeting” to seeing the need for grassroots mobilization and persistent advocacy (52:32).

9. Malala’s Public Critics

• Comparison with Greta Thunberg:
  • Addressing online narratives that compare her to activist friends (e.g., Greta), and reiterates her focus on sustained, impactful work—especially for girls’ education (53:39).
• Haters & Palestine Criticism:
  • Frustrated by accusations of silence on Palestine; recounts giving awards’ prize money and continued support for Palestinian children (56:15–58:20).
  • “It just makes me so angry that people can be throwing hateful comments, but they are making no effort into, like, looking up what I have done.” (56:15)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• Malala schooling Hasan:
  • “I think women listen to each other. … With friends, I could just talk about things. Talk about astrology, talk about boys. I just loved whenever they would just giggle at something I would say and they thought I was funny.” (16:14–16:50)
• On social norms:
  • “I told my parents that I am not here for some pilgrimage. I am here to study and be as every other student. So sorry. I'm not gonna apologize for this.” – Malala (14:03)
• On the paradox of advocacy:
  • “Can I change a president or a prime minister when I can't even change my parents?” – Hasan (52:05)
• On global leaders and performative solidarity:
  • “Afghanistan shattered the promise of progress for me. … The worst moment of my life had not been a turning point, but a pause, an opportunity for leaders to act appalled that the Taliban would dare to shoot a child, throw some money into girls education, and then return to the business of growing economies and winning elections.” – Malala (42:41)
• On being defined by trauma:
  • “As if the worst thing that ever happened to me was the most important part of my life. The living girl in front of them was not as captivating as the one on the school bus, a young dreamer about to die.” (36:27)
• On pork ribs mishap:
  • “You are a Nobel Peace Prize winner. … and you're telling me you didn't know that baby back ribs are made of pork?” – Hasan (32:00)
  • “It could have been beef as well, you know. … The moment I found out broke my heart.” – Malala (32:11)
• On haters comparing her to Greta:
  • “Are you ever like, mother, I was shot in the face?” – Hasan (55:37)
  • “People are saying that I have been silent on Palestine. That is actually false.…we have donated more than $700,000. And I keep doing this work.” – Malala (56:15)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:39–05:15] – Clearing the air, Instagram “beef”, Instagram poll, apology, restoring peace
• [07:14–08:22] – Malala on wanting normalcy in college, missing childhood, balancing fame with personal growth
• [13:29–15:16] – Jeans controversy, double standards in traditional vs. Western dress, parental expectations
• [15:44–16:46] – The meaning of friendship and acceptance in college
• [18:59–20:18] – Female vs. male friendship, emotional support, and communication
• [26:03–29:33] – “Red Flag, Green Flag” relationship game, exploring romantic and platonic red/green flags
• [36:27–37:10] – Always being asked about the shooting, refusal to be defined by trauma
• [42:41–44:32] – Limits of Western outcry, performative support, hope, and activist strategies
• [47:07–48:01] – Disappointments with Western leaders re: Afghanistan, moving forward
• [56:15–58:20] – Addressing online criticism, clarifying her support for Palestinian children, media narratives

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Tone & Style

The episode is candid, irreverent, and deeply empathetic. Hasan’s humor balances Malala’s sincerity, often flipping the interview into moments of genuine vulnerability and spontaneous laughter. Malala, for her part, is remarkably honest and warm, debunking the media’s saintly, one-dimensional portrayal of her, and proving her wit, humor, and self-awareness.

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Conclusion

Through seamless transitions from “squashing the beef” to the intricacies of activism and the immigrant experience, this episode is a testament to both the seriousness and levity required to live in the public eye. Malala emerges not just as a symbol, but as a multidimensional human being—relatable, self-deprecating, principled, and funny. The interplay with Hasan provides a rare chance to see both icons “drop the talking points,” and talk like lifelong friends rediscovering their bond.

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Transcript

[A]

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[B]

Hi, it's Julie Klausner, and I'd like to talk to you about a podcast called How Was yous Week With Julie Klausner? It's hosted by me, Julie Klausner, New York City comedy legend. Much. And it's on the Forever Dog Network. Now you might remember how was your week from its humble inception back in 2011. Now I'm back and I've got monologues and pop culture takes and interviews with experts, comedians, writers, documentary filmmakers and authors about all kinds of fascinating stuff. So tune in to How Was yous Week? Every Tuesday and Thursday for new episodes available on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[A]

Lemonader, you and I, we've had quite the history.

[C]

Yes, it's true.

[A]

We have to clear the air.

[C]

Ugh. You're still thinking about it.

[A]

I am.

[C]

It's on your mind, not on mine.

[A]

I'm owning this. I'm 100% owning it.

[C]

You're just so obsessed with it. Come on, get over it.

[A]

Guilty as charged. Yes, it's true. Malala Yousafzai and I had beef in 2022. I said in my Netflix stand up comedy special, the King's Jester that Malala follows me on Instagram, but I didn't follow her back. Malala follows me on Instagram.

[C]

And I.

[A]

Don'T follow her back. I thought that not following Malala back on IG was objectively hilarious. Cause she's an icon. She won the Nobel Peace Prize. I mean, it's like not following back the Pope. But apparently Malala didn't find this very funny. And this progressive hero chose violence in the form of an Instagram poll asking if she should unfollow me. To which 39% of her voters replied, who is this man? You then unfollowed me.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Who is this?

[C]

You're still thinking about it.

[A]

Who is this?

[C]

So in your mind.

[A]

I then posted an apology video begging her to follow me back. I'm sorry, Malala, follow me back. She did not follow me back.

[B]

And we.

[A]

We haven't spoken since then. It's been like three years. But when I heard that she had a new book, I reached out for an interview, to which she replied, please email uta. Cold blooded. But eventually I got her in the studio to discuss her new memoir, Finding My Way. And we went deep into her bad girl era. Staying out late, dancing poker, trespassing, and drugs. Her views on friendship. Why is female friendship better than male friendship?

[C]

I think women listen to each other.

[A]

How she feels about all those photo ops with world leaders. Do you feel like you were used? Why? People online accuse her of not being as badass as Greta Thunberg. Are you ever like, mother, I was shot in the face. And yes, we finally settled our beef and follow each other back on Instagram.

[C]

Yeah, I mean, you took a fight with the wrong person.

[A]

Yeah. So we're cool for now.

[C]

Hurry. Right away. No delays are safe. Make your daddy glad you have had such a lad.

[A]

I have to set the table for the audience as of this moment. As we are talking right now, we both follow each other. So I just want to ask you, are we good?

[C]

Can somebody give me my phone? I have to unfollow a person.

[A]

Wait, this is. It's I. Did I screw this all up?

[C]

See, I was not even thinking about it. I had moved on.

[A]

How did we get here?

[C]

I don't know.

[A]

How did we get here?

[C]

Hassan Minaj doesn't know. Malalha doesn't know what is happening.

[A]

You're at Malala. Like, I can't be at Hasan. There's so many Hassan's. But you're at Malala. You're an icon. And when you did a poll and said, who is this man? That shook me to my core.

[C]

Yeah, I mean, you took a fight with the wrong person, so I think it teaches you a lesson. Yeah, it's good we've moved on.

[A]

There's been a lot of historic beefs. That have happened in the media, obviously. Right now we have Stephen a. Smith and LeBron. May they come together. We have Katt Williams with a lot of the comedy community. I hope they come back together. And now here we are. Hasan, Minhaj, and Malala.

[C]

There's hope for peace in the world.

[A]

Finally, peace has been brokered.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Can I get a pound?

[C]

Yes.

[A]

I didn't know what you were gonna say. I'm gonna be honest. I didn't know what you were gonna say. As someone who has traveled and traversed the path that you have, I should have known better. And for that, I apologize.

[C]

Apology accepted.

[A]

I wanted to start with a question about your first memoir, Yo Soy Malala. Now, I want to read a quote from the book to you real quick. Let's put that up real quick. A callquier otra ahunque un po comas tarde de lo habitual. What did you mean by that?

[C]

I don't know. I need to learn Spanish to understand this. Hasan, why didn't you find the English one? The English version?

[A]

You wrote this in English?

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Oh, my God. I have been spending so much time being confused.

[C]

All I can say is gracias.

[A]

I wasn't able to absorb a whole lot from the book, but Los Talibanes, they seem like some bad hombres. Let's talk about your new memoir. It's called Finding My Way. This is probably one of your most raw and vulnerable pieces of work. You are airing it out there. But let me just say this. The stuff you're talking about in the book, I don't think I'd have the guts to put into a book. These are some of the things you're talking about. You're talking about staying out late. You're talking about crushing on boys, dancing, poker, trespassing on school property, and drugs. How does it feel to be in your Rihanna good girl gone bad moment?

[C]

Wow. You know, I want people to know the real me. There is more fun to my life. Of course, I also was internalizing this perception that I'm supposed to live this life of a saint, that I'm not supposed to have friends, not supposed to have fun. And life is all about the activism so much that you cannot be a normal person anymore. So when I went to college, I said, you know what? I will prioritize socializing, overstudying, and oversleep. So I was up all night hanging out with my friends. Pizza nights, Diwali party, Eid party, poker games, anything. I was up for that.

[A]

It was so wild because you are burst into international stardom. You were given this, an incredible platform as an advocate, as a public figure, and then simultaneously, you're also a freshman at college. And so you're going on these speaking engagements, meeting world leaders, and then you're somehow also juggling just being a normal college student.

[C]

Yeah. Now when I look back, I'm like, that was crazy, but I needed it. I felt that I was reliving the childhood that I missed. I did not have a normal life growing up. At 11 years old, the Taliban took over our valley and girls were banned from going to school. Then at 15, I was attacked by the Taliban and I had to move to a different country and restart my life in the UK after getting surgeries and treatments. And I was on this new journey to be working for girls education. Honorable Secretary General, I'm here to speak up for the right of education of every child. The terrorists thought that they would change my aims and stop my ambitions, but they failed. Message the pen is mightier than the sword. The United nations has 57 million children are unable to get any education, most of them girls. And she expects to hand the Secretary General a petition of 3 million signatures demanding education for all of the world's children. The titles that I had received from getting awards and prizes like the Nobel Peace Prize and being called this courageous and brave activist, I thought, okay, like, now I have to live up to all of these expectations. And, you know, the way we see role models in our textbooks, all of these figures from history, and we think that they never had a normal life, that they never had a fun time, they never had friends. Like, did Martin Luther King Jr. Have like a friend's time where he was just gossiping about.

[A]

Well, I mean, according to what the FBI found of his phone records, he was my man was in these streets, you know, and shout out to Coretta, and we love her, she is our queen. But Dr. King did have some extracurricular activities that we can also hold that truth and hold that space for him. I also realized as a. I don't.

[C]

Know about his activities, but should I follow his footsteps in that case or no?

[A]

For the sanctity of your marriage, I suggest you follow and you do you.

[C]

Okay, but I have no idea.

[A]

Okay, I have not looked into it, but give it a Google and have fun. And let us all understand that people are complicated and carry multitudes.

[C]

What I'm not saying is that activists should be doing bad stuff. This is what I want to clarify. I think what I'm saying is that when I became an activist, at such a young age, I was yet to grow and learn more about myself. At 15, I had no idea what I liked, if I would ever have friends or not, if I would get the normal life that I was living back in Pakistan. I wanted that more than anything else. Because when I joined a new high school in the uk, completely new culture, new language, I struggled to make friends. I would be recognized everywhere and people would follow my story, but at school, I would not get any attention at all. And the day when I won the Nobel Peace Prize, I was still in school, I thought, like, some friends looked at me and said hello. After that, just no attention at all, really. Yes. And I made only one friend by the end of it, only because the. That friend's other best friend fell out. And then I was like a side friend for her. And then somehow as a side friend, I became like her best friend. So that's how we became friends.

[A]

So not only did you have the incident that happened to you in 2012, then you have to move. You wake up as a child, you're in a new country. So now you're the immigrant story. Simultaneously, you're the activist story and you're the new kid at school story. And I think the book is really beautiful in capturing the humanity of all of those things. What was something that you saw that was different about middle school and high school for you, that that shifted to college? Because in the book you talk about going to college and then you found your group.

[C]

I actually decided that I would be a different person in college. I told myself that I have to go and say hello to people. I have to go and sign up to every club, every society, and just talk to everybody, even if it feels embarrassing and awkward. So that's what I did. I. I was just there everywhere and saying hello and just trying to find friends who would take any interest in me. So that's how it worked out.

[A]

You know what's so weird is like, it's, it's. It's very strange, but it's also, like, universal and endearing. We all want to be a new person when we go to college.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

I've made some bizarre fashion choices. I'm not proud of them, but I have to own them.

[C]

We all have gone through that.

[A]

Sure.

[C]

I also can't look at my initial college days photos, even though before packing up for my college, I was actually Googling, you know, the smart casual styles, and I even looked up Selena Gomez casual. I needed some tips and advice. Yes. Because I was always wearing Shalwar the traditional Pakistani dress. And I had never really tried jeans and, like, a jumper or a sweater. Yeah, Selena Gomez was helpful.

[A]

Shout out to Selena. Have you told Selena Gomez this?

[C]

I have, yes.

[B]

Oh, great.

[C]

I met her a few days ago, which is very nice.

[A]

That's awesome. You talk about this jeans moment being a big kind of fissure. Why the big deal over denim?

[C]

I mean, I was so shocked to see that response.

[A]

That was your Obama tan suit moment. Here's a president coming out of such a serious moment where he should be addressing the country on such a serious matter. And he looked like he was on his way to a party at the Hamptons.

[C]

He shows up like he just stepped.

[A]

Out of a GQ catalog. This is not presidential dress.

[C]

So on that day, I was living my normal college day, and I get a phone call from my parents, and they are so mad at me. And I said, like, what? What happened? What have I done? And then I look online, and it's this whole backlash against me wearing jeans. Some people were saying, shame on Malala because she is not wearing the traditional Pakistani clothes anymore, that somehow she is now defaming the country or not obeying the religion. But I said, like, I'm here just like every other student. There are Muslim students in this college who wear jeans 100%. It was crazy. I was so careful in the beginning. I was not going to any parties because I thought that people might take photos and take it out of context. And. But when this whole controversy around Gene started, then I said, okay, where do I even draw the line? Like, I told my parents that I am not here for some pilgrimage. I am here to study and be as every other student. So sorry. I'm not gonna apologize for this. I'm not gonna issue any statement, and I'm not gonna change. You know, what I want to wear. It is hard. Families are families, and they're the same everywhere. By the way, you also talk about.

[A]

This double standard with your brother, too, though, right? With your brothers, you're like, you don't bring the same.

[C]

Never, never, never. As soon as we moved to a new country, my brother started wearing jeans, Western clothes. Nobody in our community caused any backlash. My parents were okay.

[A]

No shame on them.

[C]

My father, he wears Western clothes, no problem. But somehow, me and my mom had to stick to the tradition.

[A]

There's so much in the book that's centered around this idea of, like, love and friendship. If I may ask, can you read this passage about friendship and love with your friends in college?

[C]

Yes, sure.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

My friends didn't care about my thoughts on global events or what I wore. They accepted my quirks and contradictions, my bad days and chronic tardiness. Sometimes when they saved me a seat at dinner or laughed at my jokes, I tried to hide the swell of gratitude in my heart. I knew it wasn't normal to show so much intensity or say out loud how much I loved them.

[A]

Okay, so this is beautiful on many different levels. So tell me what it was like to find your group of friends in college.

[C]

I wished for a normal life in college. More than anything, I wanted to have friends where I could feel comfortable and I could feel like I was being myself. That is something that I had missed before. That I was constantly thinking about, you know, what I'm going to say, how people will quote me. Is this a public statement that I'm issuing right now? But with friends, I could just talk about things. Talk about astrology, talk about boys. I just loved whenever they would just giggle at something I would say and they thought I was funny.

[A]

Wait, Malala, you're so much smarter than to talk about astrology.

[C]

It's okay. Astrology is fun to read. No, Malala, you know, everybody talks about it. It's a big thing in college.

[A]

Sure, okay. Yes, I'll let it slide.

[C]

Yes, it was. If that helps you get into a group of friends, you know, it's good. Keep yourself up to date with it. What's your star sign?

[A]

I don't know.

[C]

Okay, what's your birthday?

[A]

I'm September 23rd, 1985.

[C]

23Rd.

[A]

Yeah. I've been told I'm a cusp.

[C]

You are a Libra.

[A]

Astrology is cryptocurrency for girls.

[C]

Yeah. And it works. Look at cryptocurrency right now.

[A]

Nicely done. Nicely done.

[C]

Do you have a bitcoin? Do you wish you had?

[A]

You know what? Right now, I certainly do.

[C]

I certainly do.

[A]

And I made a bunch of jokes on Patriot act about how stupid it was. But, yeah, it's doing better than ever. Bitcoin is just beanie babies for tech bros. Every person I went to high school with was like, yo, bitcoin is going to change your life. You're right. Nicely done, Malala.

[C]

Once again, we need to monetize astrology, and these boys will be in.

[A]

That's true.

[C]

Yes. Money.

[A]

Money is missing, Malala. If you drop a meme coin, I'm telling you, okay? You will pick up a whole new market share, not only for your book, but for your speaking engagements and a whole lot more. Just four parts of this truly broke my Heart. And I'll tell you why. Okay, I was happy for you, but I was heartbroken. They accepted my quirks, contradictions, my bad days, and my chronic tardiness. I still have all four of those. And everyone here at the show hates me for these four qualities. One of our producers that you met out there saw me be quite quirky and kind of bonkers yesterday, and she said, it's giving Squirrel. She said I was acting like the Squirrel. And I'm reading this, and I'm like, why can't people accept my quirks and my contradictions?

[C]

The way, you know they're still with you?

[A]

I think they're here because they filled out W2s and W9s. Why is female friendship better than male friendship?

[C]

I think women listen to each other. They understand the emotional support. And, you know, when a friend is going through something, I know that she just needs me to be there. I can tell that she does not need any solution. I don't need to fix her problems. I just need to tell her that it's okay. Let's process this. You know, if she's talking, complaining about a boy, I'm like, yes, I hate him, too. He's horrible. How could he do this? That's just the simple things you need to say. It's really, really helpful. And I think guys should also open up in these conversations. I don't know. I don't know how guys talk. So my husband, sometimes I hear him on a phone call with his friends, and they are roasting each other. They are just so mean to each other.

[A]

Cruelty is kindness.

[C]

And I'm like, how are you still friends after that last call? It's over. It's over, but it's somehow not. But maybe that's just an unhealthy way of you guys maintaining your friendship.

[A]

I fully accept that it is completely unhealthy. Male friendship would be a whole lot better if we could just find a way as adult men to say three words that I have never heard from any of my adult friends. Do you know what those words are?

[C]

I love you. No. What is it?

[A]

Are you okay?

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And the crazy part is, Malala, I have a lot of friends. I know they're not okay, and I won't ask. We have three responses. Dude, bro, that's crazy. My dad died. That's crazy.

[C]

That's crazy. That's crazy. The things you guys say. That's crazy.

[A]

Yeah. I really love chapter nine. Chapter nine, you reveal that you have a hidden talent.

[C]

Yes. My friends revealed to me that I am a good relationship counselor. And, yeah. That I can actually resolve conflicts. And they said, you know, you have the Nobel Peace Prize. Maybe you could bring a bit of that expertise into bringing peace among friends.

[A]

Sure. You could broker peace amongst.

[C]

Exactly. Like, you know what? We are still waiting for some peace in the world. Let's resolve some conflicts here.

[A]

How did you know you were good at that?

[C]

I don't know. I used to just sometimes joke that I'm more of a coach than a player because I myself was not in a relationship or I never had a boyfriend, never went on a date, but somehow I knew. And I think it was probably because of watching too many Bollywood movies or the Indian TV dramas. Sure, sure. I have watched, like, Star plus dramas and everything. So, yeah, I was very familiar with the. With the dynamic, you know, among people. And what are they saying in those silent.

[A]

Those silent moments. I've talked about this, Malala. Yeah, I was raised on that, too.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Yeah. Love, Biak.

[C]

When they're speaking in their mind, what's happening here? Yes.

[A]

That really shaped who I am. And then I'll tell that to people and they'll be like, that's way too intense. Whatever's happening in your ZTV drama or whatever shaped you and the hit movie Dar, the 1992 hit film with Shah Rukh Khan, They're like, that's crazy.

[C]

Yes. No, it. Somehow it works. It has built that emotion inside us about romanticy, all of these things. Everybody has thought about Shah Rukh Khan as the love of their life. I have, too.

[A]

Guilty as charged.

[C]

Yes. Same for my husband. Because I told him, I said, look, like, if there's one guy who I see and I'll go crazy and I'll sort of ignore you completely, that would be Shah Rukh.

[A]

Have you met Shahrukh?

[C]

I have not.

[A]

Come on, Shahrukh. I know this is going to end.

[C]

Up in your feed.

[A]

What are you doing? This is a Nobel Peace Prize winner.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Figure it out. This message comes from at&t. America's first network is also its fastest and most reliable based on RootMetrics. United States Root Score Report 1H 2025 tested with the best commercially available smartphones on three national mobile networks across all available network types. Your experience may vary. Root metrics. Rankings are not an endorsement of AT&T. When you compare, there's no comparison. AT&T. I always put off buying presents for my loved ones, and then I'm left scrambling at the last second. I want to get them the perfect gift, but then they deserve something thoughtful, but I also want it to be something that they're actually going to use. This is a conundrum, but you want to know a secret? Giving them Aura Frames makes it look like you planned it all along. And that is the key. Aura Frames are digital picture frames that allow you to display unlimited free photos and videos. All you have to do is download the Aura app and connect to wifi. And here's the key. You can add photos and even a message to the frame before it arrives. It is giving premeditated. It is giving favorite gift. So don't wait any longer. Win the holidays right now but with Aura Frames for a limited time. Save on the perfect gift by visiting auraframes.com and get $35 off Aura's bestselling Carver Matte frames. Name number one by Wirecutter by using the promo code husn at checkout. That is a U R A frames.com promo code Hassan. This deal is exclusive to listeners, and frames sell out fast, so you got to order yours right now to get it in time for the holidays. Support the show by mentioning us at checkout. Terms and conditions apply. This episode of HMDK is brought to you by booking.com as I'm sure you all know, your boy is basically a business mogul. And while I'm conquering media and autumnal beverages, it has come to my attention there is a major market I haven't tapped into yet. Vacation Rentals. If you are in the vacation rental space, booking.com is the place to be. Since 2010, they have helped over 1.8 billion travelers find vacation rentals. But here's the thing. Most vacation rental hosts don't even realize they can just list their properties on booking.com and if you're not on the platform, your rental is basically invisible to millions of Booking.com travelers worldwide. After all, they can't book what they can't see right now. Thankfully, it's super easy to list your property. It can take as little as 15 minutes, and nearly half of hosts get their first booking within a week of registering. So if your vacation rental isn't listed on booking.com, it could be invisible to millions of travelers searching the platform. Don't miss out on consistent bookings and global reach. Head over to booking.com and start your listing today. Get seen. Get booked on booking.com let's play a game. I want to test your assessment. Let's call it Red Flag, Green Flag.

[B]

Okay, okay.

[A]

Let's pretend, okay, I'm one of your girlfriends and I'm presenting you information about a guy, and I just want to see how good your discernment is. Okay, so red flag means no. Like, we are not moving forward. Let's not proceed.

[C]

Oh, I know, I know. Red flags. Green flag.

[A]

Gotcha, Gotcha.

[B]

Okay, good.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

This is red flag. Green flag with Nobel Peace Prize winner Malala Yousafzai. Okay, red flag or green flag? He keeps saying, bro, you gotta buy the diploma.

[C]

Dip. What is dip?

[A]

There's a group of men that are on the Internet. They're chronically online. They're generally day traders and or gamblers. They're watching the stock market go up or down, and when it dips, down, they go get in now on the dip so you can buy it when it goes back up. So, bro, you got to buy the dip. As Bitcoin or Malala Coin is down, it's dipping.

[C]

Red flag.

[A]

Red flag. Why is that?

[C]

They're not focused on you. They're looking for the dips.

[A]

Nicely done. His WI Fi password includes the number 69.

[C]

Green flag.

[A]

Okay. Okay. He has a cat.

[C]

That's green flag. That's definitely green flag.

[A]

He has eight cats.

[C]

Still a green flag.

[A]

Green flag.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

How many cats is appropriate per square feet?

[C]

That's really cute. He is a very sensible person. Person. If a guy can manage eight cats, he would be a good boyfriend, husband, partner.

[A]

But what if he's in a 500 square foot studio apartment in Brooklyn?

[C]

No, I pets. That's green flag. I'll allow it.

[A]

Okay. In his dating profile picture, he's holding up a fish that he caught.

[C]

Oh, no. And even the smell of the fish. No, sorry. Red flag.

[A]

In his dating profile picture, he's holding up a fish that he caught with his mother.

[C]

It's becoming more green now.

[A]

Really? Malala, run. That's a red flag. I will give it a red flag. He interrupts you constantly, but it's only to correct you because you're wrong. So he means well.

[C]

Red flag.

[A]

He has a Nobel Peace Prize.

[C]

That's a tricky one. It's more amber.

[A]

What do you mean? It's an amber. That's an amber flag. Okay, he has a Nobel Peace Prize, but he's Henry Kissinger. He's dead. So it's dead. Henry Kissinger.

[C]

Yeah. I mean, that's. That's a white flag. I mean, it's done.

[A]

He's exactly like Ryan Gosling in every single way, except he's William Dafoe.

[C]

He's what?

[A]

William Dafoe.

[C]

Who's William Defoe?

[A]

This is what he looks like. Thank you, Scott. He's exactly like Ryan Gosling, but he looks like Willem Dafoe.

[C]

Can I see him?

[A]

Yeah. So William Dafoe also kind of looks like a Caucasian version of Fareed Zakaria. So he looks like William.

[C]

Was he in, like, the.

[A]

He was in Spider Man.

[C]

Spider Man. Okay. I know him. Yes.

[A]

Yeah. So he looks like William Dafoe.

[C]

Looks matter. Of course. It's subjective. So if you are attracted to him and you love him, it's a green flag for you. But if you are not attracted, then it's a red flag. Imagine you are in an argument with this guy, and then you look at him and you're like, you know what? He's good looking. I love his smile. He's cute. You need to have that moment, right?

[A]

Sure.

[C]

Imagine you get into a fight and then you look at him and you're like, ugh. How am I tolerating this guy?

[A]

Oh, wow. We're peeling back a lot of layers here, Malala, because Bina has said that to me before. She's like, what you're doing right now is not attractive. It's very not cute.

[C]

Mm.

[A]

So cute isn't even about looks sometimes. I found out it's about general behavior.

[C]

It's many things. Yeah.

[A]

So what if he's literally Willem Dafoe? Green flag or red flag? He's a green flag for me.

[C]

I'll accept that.

[A]

Cause the Green Goblin is a green flag. I'm into villains. I also think he has a very, like, an electric face. Thank you for getting zany with me. You've been really like.

[C]

I'm enjoying it.

[A]

Yeah. So in the book, you talk about your highs, you talk about your lows, but you talk about one of your darkest moments. Do you know what I'm talking about?

[C]

No.

[A]

I'm talking about this moment. I'm talking about the moment you got bangs.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

It's a moment.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Had we been text message friends, I would have hit you with a dude. That's crazy. Are you okay?

[C]

I wish I had asked my guy friends because my girlfriends were like, oh, you look so pretty. You look so good. You should definitely get bangs and all of that.

[A]

What was going on? What was the inciting incident here? Everyone has their bangs moment. I certainly have.

[C]

You know, I'll just tell people this is how we coped with the pandemic.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

This was.

[A]

I had a buddy who got a face tattoo. He's like, we're never coming back to savior.

[C]

No, we're gonna tell the next Generation. We went through a pandemic. What did we do?

[A]

Bangs, bangs, bangs. Face tattoo. Crypto.

[C]

Exactly.

[A]

What a journey it was. I'm gonna need you to read this next passage to me. This is about an interaction you had with Hen and your close friends. Now, hen is not a chicken. Hen is one of your close friends.

[C]

Yeah. Henrika.

[A]

This was during the pandemic. Malala, take it away.

[C]

Hen told me she and her sister liked a place called TGI Fridays. I had never heard of it, but when I scrolled through the menu, I saw that the barbecue ribs were the most popular item and had them delivered. My family was obsessed with the meal and asked me to order the same exact thing almost every night for two weeks. The next time I spoke to Hen, I thanked her for the tip.

[A]

Malala.

[B]

Yes?

[A]

How long did you have this meal for?

[C]

A few weeks. Yeah. If not months.

[A]

You are a Nobel Peace Prize winner. Went to Oxford, and you're telling me you didn't know that baby back ribs are made of pork?

[C]

It could have been beef as well, you know. You have beef ribs, too? I just assumed they were beef ribs, you know? The moment I found out broke my heart.

[A]

I get it.

[C]

It's like that one moment in my life where I wished I did not know the truth.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

I wanted to be in my own little fantasy world.

[A]

I had a similar moment. Do you know what that moment was?

[C]

What was it?

[A]

Lucky Charms. Lucky Charms cereal. Those delicious, delicious marshmallows have pork gelatin.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

And for years I was eating it.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And then When I was 13 or 14, a friend came over and was like, those have pork in them. And it fucked my shit up.

[C]

And did you hate that friend?

[A]

I hated them same. His name is Kamran. Kamran. You're the worst.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

You could have kept it quiet and I would have had the pass with God. Could have met God at the Pearly Gates and been like, I didn't know. I didn't know. But then Kamaran put it on me.

[C]

Yeah. It's a good moral dilemma. Would you let your friend have a happy time? Or would you tell them the truth? But if they have a happy time, then God should be happy with you.

[A]

Because you're saying so. Malala, what I do now, I am philosophically on the same page. This is a great convo. I don't know if you're gonna get this on the book tour. Is it better that we are happy or is it better that they know the truth? This is a big debate between me and my sister and Malala no pressure. I will be forwarding this to Aisha.

[C]

Yeah. You know what I think? Now that I think about it, I think it's important to know the truth because it is about our free will and how we make decisions. But in that moment when I was enjoying those ribs, I just wanted to be happy and did not want to know the truth.

[A]

I know.

[C]

So it is. It is a. It is a dilemma.

[A]

But, yeah, Ignorance is bliss, though. I have to. I have to disagree. Ignorance is bliss because guess what? Our Haribo Gummy Bears. Halal. Yes. But they're not as good as the Haram ones. The gelatin ones that I had as a kid are better. Shout out to Haribo. You can be one of our sponsors. And please send me and Malala Gummy Bears their halal. But it's not as good as the gelatin. From sin. Haribo. At least you won't be living in sin. Okay. Obviously, I've been a fan of your work for years. For me, as a Muslim American, when I saw you take the world stage and see you meet world leaders and politicians and people in TV and late night shows almost treat you like the Dalai Lama, there was always like, a Malala, how are you? Like, they would treat you like you were a porcelain doll. What was that like?

[C]

I did not even know a lot of the famous people I was meeting. I met David Beckham and I had no idea who he was.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

It's when I went to the school the next day, like, hearing from every teacher, every student, and I was like, you guys should have prepared me how big of a deal it was going to be.

[A]

Who did you think he was? You just thought he was just like this really cute British guy.

[C]

Oh, he plays football. Okay. You know, I had never really followed.

[A]

Soccer in Pakistan, but you weren't, like, you weren't in awe of just the now I am.

[C]

Now I am.

[A]

Was he not that cute in person?

[C]

No, he's very nice and very cute.

[A]

You know what I'm talking about. I'm sure he's nice. I'm talking about. I'm talking about that jawline. I'm talking about.

[C]

No, no, he's very cute.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

All right.

[C]

And he's a very kind person. I think for me, it was also figuring out, like, who am I supposed to be when I meet these people? I was so focused on the advocacy part of the work that I was constantly feeling that I have to represent the girls who have a similar story as me. They do not have access to education and they want to Be in school. So if I met a world leader or any famous person, I brought up the girls education issue to them. And I still do that. But I have grown in these years and I have my own foundation now. So I do everything more strategically now and I try to see how we can actually make an impact and push everybody to make better decisions.

[A]

One of the things I love is you just had so much raw honesty. I want to share a passage from the book. Do you mind reading this passage?

[C]

Everywhere I went, people asked the same question. What do you remember about the shooting? When I said that I couldn't remember anything about it, they seemed almost disappointed, as if it was impolite of me not to recall my fear and suffering. As if the worst thing that ever happened to me was the most important part of my life. The living girl in front of them was not as captivating as the one on the school bus. A young dreamer about to die.

[A]

I mean, this. This broke my heart on many different levels.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Being asked to relive one of the most traumatic events of your life repeatedly for an eight minute talk show segment. What did it feel like for you?

[C]

I never wanted to be known by the Taliban attack. Even now, when I hear it as an introduction, it is hard to process because I know that I'm much more than that. And that's part of the reason why I wanted to write this new book, Finding My Way, because I wanted to show this true part of me that is beyond the headlines and the titles that I have received. I was defined by the world when I was still in a coma and I was only 15 years old. I didn't know myself. Over these years, I have navigated my way through college. I have made friends, found love. I have tackled mental health challenges. And I want to share all of that with people because that is actually the most personal side of my journey that I want to be out there. It's really hard to be known by just one incident that happens to you.

[A]

Was there ever a moment when you were traveling the world and doing your work that you felt you had to navigate this paradox of simultaneously representing and fighting for the amazing cause of women's education while trying to be a whole person that contains multitudes? How did you navigate that paradox?

[C]

It was a dilemma. I knew that if I live my life limited to events and conferences, living as my parents wish me to live, then I would not be my true self. So for me, this college life was a bit of that escape. And as soon as I joined my college, I realized that nobody has access to my calendar, my parents are not around. I can actually do what I want. It was a sudden realization. I said, okay, I'm going to make friends. I'm going to sign up for everything. I'm going to do rowing, even if I can't swim. I mean, I gave up quickly on that. I'm glad I did. I'm going to climb the trees, I'm going to climb the bell tower. I want to be part of everything here because I had missed a lot of that in my childhood, in my activism, and it helped me grow as a person. Even the emotions of friendships can help you grow. Even falling in love can help you grow. And I never being away from it.

[A]

Being away from that core work, did you ever feel being away from it, that, like, mid-20s era of your life? I felt it. I'm sure you felt it. You're like, oh, I'm starting to understand my place in the world, even outside of school and parents. Like, I am kind of defining who I am as a person, having that space. Did you also see, from a political perspective, almost the Western orientalism, the ethnocentrism, the slight Islamophobia, and also the media framing of framing Muslim women as victims?

[C]

I think it's, you know, it's complex. You know, when I tell my story, I think about the girls in my community and what happened to them. I do not tend to talk about these different perspectives and narratives and all of that. For me, it's the truth and about what I see and what happened. Of course, like, when you are in a different culture, in a different context. And now that I'm living in the uk, I do see that sometimes when people tell my story, they sort of connect it with my religion or with my culture and say, everybody thinks like that. And I'm like, no, that's not the point. I do not want people to see the Taliban or the extremists to be the representatives of our culture. Actually, I want them to see me as a representative of my culture. I want them to see other girls and women who are standing up as the representatives of my culture. They are speaking out for themselves. They are trying to redefine those norms. And so it's always a dilemma. It's always.

[A]

It feels so obvious to me.

[C]

We can also not hide the truth. Like, of course, we have challenges in a lot of these Muslim countries, like, including Afghanistan right now. The Taliban are actually misusing Islam to impose restrictions on women. I had a conversation with four Afghan girls a few weeks ago who are Part of this project where they are learning through underground secret schools, and they are also getting their education online because the Taliban have banned them from learning. And they were telling me that even learning from home, opening a book is an act of resistance. These gulls are now living under this oppressive regime of the Taliban, and they are misusing the culture, they're misusing the religion. But I constantly remind people, like, we cannot support the narrative which is saying, like, oh, this is all Islam and this is all the Pashtun culture or the Afghan culture. Like, we have to stand against that, but at the same time, we have to talk about the misogyny and the patriarchy that actually exists. So sometimes people just intentionally don't separate the two. But I think they're separate.

[A]

It becomes this binary on social media. Either 0 or 1.

[C]

Exactly.

[A]

1 or the other.

[C]

Exactly. And I think those who know, actually, they know totally.

[A]

One of the things that people were chatting about even as we were prepping for this interview is, hey, can we get this silly with Malala? And I'm like, dude, Malala is Pakistani and Pashtun. They are very funny.

[C]

Exactly.

[A]

She is very funny. And she's gonna go there. And simultaneously, you will. In the book, you'll drop napalm. This passage was really interesting, where you kind of talk about your role in relation to Western politicians.

[C]

Afghanistan shattered the promise of progress for me. For the first time, I realized the world was not committed to fighting for the rights of women and girls. The worst moment of my life had not been a turning point, but a pause, an opportunity for leaders to act appalled that the Taliban would dare to shoot a child, throw some money into girls education, and then return to the business of growing economies and winning elections.

[A]

God damn.

[C]

Yeah, it is true. It is true. I think, you know, people often celebrate the survivors, those who actually happen to be lucky and make their way out. And then, you know, people applaud them and support them and give them awards. So when I was getting this global attention and support, I thought people were actually genuine in protecting the right to education for every girl. It was never about me. I know I had survived. I know, like, I was the lucky one. All good for me. But I thought, like, if all of this happens in Afghanistan, people would be appalled by it. Like, they would actually take action. And it has now been four and a half years, and Afghan girls are still banned by the Taliban to go to school. Still. I just cannot process this. And I talk to Afghan activists, Afghan girls, and they share these heartbreaking stories with me. It's hard to imagine the pain that they're going through right now. They need more support. Afghan women and girls need more support.

[A]

And you pull no punches in regards to the complicity of the U.S. government and U.S. political leaders. This is a shift. When you read the book, you can really sense the shift of there's this loss of innocence and should I call it cynicism or realism?

[C]

You know, sometimes I feel all of it at the same time. But I still carry optimism within me because I work together with the Afghan women activists, and I have seen their bravery and resilience. And they are protesting on their streets. They're learning in secret. They are creating these underground schools. So when I look at that, I'm like, no, there's still some hope. And it's a reminder, I think, to women and girls everywhere that this world of gender equality that we were promised is actually very fragile. And maybe it's not that real as we think. If the whole country of Afghanistan can ban girls education, and that is something that we have sort of normalized, that means it can happen anywhere else as well. So that's why I think it's become even more important for me to keep doing the work. I was once banned by the Taliban from going to school. I. I do not want any other girl to be witnessing that. And that's why I'm an activist for girls education at heart. And I hope that people will talk more about this.

[A]

The way you're going back and meeting people from your village and continuing the work, like the actual real human interest stories, their full lives is really beautiful. Do you ever look back at all those photo ops that you took next to presidents and prime ministers and celebrities? Do you feel like you were used?

[C]

I always think that people have a good intention, and even if a part of my mind tells me no, but I'm like, no, I always think that people always think the best for you. So I. I try to be more of an optimist, but I think we need to go beyond just saying a few words of support or taking some photos.

[A]

How did you navigate? You talk about this in the book where. When US Troops were leaving Afghanistan.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And you make the call to Trudeau or Biden, they didn't pick up the call. How did that affect you? And how did you go, okay, this is maybe the reality. What's my next move?

[C]

It was heartbreaking because a lot of the leaders were not responding, especially the men leaders in the world. There were a few female leaders and representatives all the way from Canada, US To Qatar, who actually took some action. And even from Norway, the prime minister there also did something. But it was really hard to process that because I thought, you know, they were feminist world leaders and they had feminist foreign policies and that meant something, that they would actually think about the future of Afghan girls. But that wasn't really the case. When I think about Afghan girls being out of school, I'm like, we're failing. We're failing every day. And until schools reopen for them, until every Afghan woman has equal rights, we're not doing enough.

[A]

As someone who is culinary challenged, the holidays are my biggest op. I love the idea of hosting my family and friends, but what the heck am I supposed to feed these people? Thankfully, Whole Foods Market entered the chat. They are heat in each sides from the prepared foods department have single handedly kept my family together. And synthetic coloring free. Yay. You know what's better than hosting? Celebrating in other people's homes. Because for those gatherings, I am not responsible for the full spread. I just got to show up with a host gift, and that is easy money. At Whole Foods, they have seasonal candles, a floral department full of bouquets, and cookie gift boxes in the bakery. Pro tip, I go for the expert curated cheeses and grab some crackers to go with them. Guaranteed hit. But if you really want to impress, Whole Foods has gift sets in their body care and wellness departments, free of over 240 ingredients that don't meet their standards. Going back to your hometown Whole Foods Market, you can order online for pickup and delivery in select zip codes. It's the best way to avoid people from your high school shop for everything you need at Whole Foods Market, your holiday headquarters. Do you want to talk about the meeting that you had with Barack Obama when you were 16 years old?

[C]

I talked about the importance of girls education. I shared my story and I also talked about drone attacks in Pakistan and Afghanistan. And I talked about how such attacks are actually targeting civilians. I personally went through this trauma of being attacked as a child, and I also saw terrorism in my hometown and I saw how many innocent people were killed and targeted. So I just could not understand this logic of civilians dying and people not caring about it. And I mean, like, we see that everywhere. We have seen it in Afghanistan. We have seen this through the drone strikes or throughout the world, through the different conflicts, including in Gaza as well. And it's treated as like, oh, you know, this is expected. This is collateral damage and we have to keep challenging this. World leaders need to care for humanity and we need to remind them that you cannot justify killings. You cannot justify these, like, inhumane acts for any reason. Like, that's something that we need to remind people. We cannot lose humanity. Like, we're becoming, like, it's like insanity. Totally. Yeah.

[A]

Like, how can you not see the sanctity of all human life?

[C]

Exactly.

[A]

And that image really stuck with me, watching you as a 16 year old in the Oval Office with Barack Obama. And do you look at it now and on one level, do you respect your passion to say it to his face, to be like, stop the drone strikes in the Oval Office. But on the other hand, are you ever questioning the efficacy of that or how do you process that?

[C]

Yeah. You know, I'm still the same person in those meetings. Of course, I have, like, more specific talking points now that I know about every country's policy on girls education. But I think about representing the girls who I meet, who I work for. And sometimes I remind myself that this is not my message, this is the girl's message. And I'm just here as their representative, so I do not shy away from saying what's in my heart. And I think we need to challenge ourselves, our leaders. And I also think it's not just about, like, yes, we need to hold the US Accountable. Because what's happening in Afghanistan is because of how the US Left the country. It wasn't about, like, should the US have left or. Or not, but it's like, how. And when they left it, they just handed it over to the Taliban. They excluded women from those conversations. Women's rights were never on the agenda, as if, like, women and. And girls in Afghanistan were not even part of the population. Like, they are half of the population. And Afghanistan will not have a future if the women are oppressed. At the same time, I think about the other regional powers as well. It includes all the neighboring countries as well. It's really about holding all of these leaders accountable.

[A]

It raises a very interesting philosophical question, which is, can I change a president or a prime minister when I can't even change my parents?

[C]

I think sometimes you just have to do what you want. And that could mean mobilizing people, raising awareness, and people often don't realize, but advocacy can take a very long time. Sometimes it's not about one meeting with the president or one angry tweet that can change things. Like, I wish it was that simple. I would be, like, sending out angry tweets every day to fix all world problems.

[A]

If only the revolution could start through Instagram stories.

[C]

Yeah, I became an activist at a young age, so I Was under this impression that if this prime minister, like, if I meet him and I tell him or her, like, yes, like, we'll fix all the problems. But I realized with this exposure, with these meetings, that things are. Are not as simple, unfortunately, and I wish they were. But it's about mobilizing the local communities, raising awareness, telling young people about their rights, telling them about. About social justice. It can make a huge difference. So right now, what I care about is the voices of Afghan women and girls. I am. You know, we are supporting them in their alternative education programs. I am taking their message to every room, to every world leader, uplifting their voices. That's the most important. But hopefully, I think leaders, in the end, realize it's not just one person, but it's many who are demanding this, and that's when they start taking it seriously. So it also means the activism of people in America or people in Pakistan, people in India, in all of these countries.

[A]

As a icon and activist, you get compared to Greta Thunberg, who's your friend.

[C]

Yes, she is my friend also. I have been compared to somebody my whole life. So people might be seeing this a lot on social media now, but even when I was a kid, I was getting compared to a cricketer. I have been compared to cricketers as well.

[A]

Wait, why? Why, though?

[C]

Yeah. I don't know. People were just saying, who's. Who's the real hero? I'm like, I'm not even competing. I would never compete with Shahid Afridi. I would never compete with Imran Khan. Like, they are the legends. You know, Greta has this huge platform, and she can mobilize young people.

[A]

She came to Oxford and met you in 2020, right?

[C]

Yes. No, we're very good friends. I check on her, and I support her in the activism that she's doing.

[A]

And she's doing okay now, right? You guys have checked in since she's doing okay. She was captured on the flotilla, and now she's doing okay.

[C]

Yes. And she's very focused on the cause, that she does not let anything stop her. The way I do my activism, I think about empowering other activists. I do not consider myself an expert on all the issues that are happening. My focus is girls education, and I think about girls everywhere, whether it's girls in Gaza whose schools are bombed by Israel, or whether it's girls in Afghanistan who are banned by the Taliban, or if it's girls in Pakistan, Nigeria, any other part of the world. I care about all of those girls. The local advocates, the teachers, the young women activists, Lawyers, campaigners, in their work to make a change. You know, we need to think about policy changes. We need to think about implementing those engaging communities for the real change to happen. And I have been running this organization for, like, more than 10 years now. I have seen laws change. I have seen how more resources are unlocked. I have seen more schools being built in. And that is the most rewarding experience that you can ever witness. And you realize, okay, there's more hope. More girls are empowered. More girls can have a future. So I do not hesitate in talking about any issue, but I speak about it from the lens of girls.

[A]

That's beautiful. Do you ever get in your feelings with the comment section? A lot of times you'll see stuff online, and people online will be like, malala isn't as hardcore as Greta. Greta goes hard in the paint. Greta puts her body on the line. Are you ever like, mother, I was shot in the face. The Taliban shot me in the face. What are you talking about? Have you listened to the 50 cent record get rich or die trying track number four?

[C]

No.

[A]

Many men Wish Death Upon Me?

[C]

No.

[A]

You should drop a response video to those people and put that as the track underneath to be like, yeah, they tried to smoke me out. Like, I was in the Gambino crime family.

[C]

So I see all sorts of comments, and the first thing I want to say is that a lot of the things that I'm hearing are actually not true. People are saying that I have been silent on Palestine. That is actually false. And it just makes me so angry that people can be throwing hateful comments, but they are making no effort into, like, looking up what I have done. I have spoken about children in Gaza, not just, like, what happened in October 2023, but I have spoken and supported education for Palestinian children since 2014. I was 17 years old and I received this award. It came with a 50,000 cash prize. I donated that to some schools in Palestine. After that, in 2021, more schools were bombed. Kids were attacked, and we gave $150,000. Then, since 2023, through Malala Fund, I have supported local organizations in Gaza, in the neighboring countries, who are supporting Palestinian children and mothers and girls and are providing them with psychosocial support and other needs in this very difficult time. And we have donated more than $700,000. And I keep doing this work. I actually went to Egypt to visit the Palestinian girls who we are supporting. Their stories were heartbreaking. They had either lost a family member, they had either been injured themselves or were separated from their families. It was heartbreaking. But I wanted to share my solidarity with them, share their stories and further support the organizations who are giving them the immediate support that they need, including equine therapy, which is like horse riding. And which was amazing because, yeah, these girls had gone through so much trauma that they could not even talk to anybody. So one girl was telling me her story that this connection with nature and with the horse has really helped her to be able to speak again and trust people and make friends.

[A]

I think it's just beautiful that you're doing the work irl. You're continuing to fight the fight that you've always fought. And I'm glad you have much more fortitude than me to not let Lord Algo make you go to a very petty place. You somehow are extremely gracious and chill with all of your haters except me when I made a joke about you three years ago, which I apologized for. But I'm so glad that we squashed the beef.

[C]

Yeah. No, in the end, there can be peace between us. There can be peace anywhere. Yes, there's more hope.

[A]

Malala, thank you so much.

[C]

Thank you.

[A]

If you haven't subscribed to Lemonada Premium yet, now's the perfect time. Because guess what? You can listen completely ad free. Plus you'll unlock exclusive bonus content like Halle Berry on how to be a good partner during menopause or Mehdi Husson on the dumbing down of media clips you won't hear anywhere else. Just tap that subscribe button on Apple Podcasts or head to lemonadapremium.com to subscribe on any other app. That's lemonadapremium.com. don't miss out.

[B]

Hey, psst. You didn't hear this from me, but Normal Gossip is back for its ninth season. Join me, Rachel Hampton, as I share the juiciest gossip from the real world with some very special guests. This season, we're bringing back some old friends, a Radiotopia buddy, and for the first time ever, a Nobel laureate. That's right, we have Malala. On season nine, Normal Gossip is out on all your favorite podcast platforms.