The Hasan Summit with Hasan Piker

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Hasan Minhaj Doesn't Know

Episode: The Hasan Summit with Hasan Piker

Date: August 20, 2025
Host: Hasan Minhaj
Guest: Hasan Piker

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Overview

In this highly anticipated episode, comedian Hasan Minhaj sits down with Twitch political streamer and commentator Hasan Piker for the long-promised “Hasan Summit.” The conversation weaves through political identities, media misrepresentation, immigrant identities, internet culture, and the unique experiences of two prominent Muslim voices navigating modern media. The tone is candid, humorous, and full of sharp commentary, punctuated by meta moments (reaction to reactions), deep dives into leftist politics, and playful games. The episode offers both a crash course in progressive/leftist politics and an unguarded glimpse into the pressures of online visibility for outspoken public figures.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Hasan Piker’s Twitch Persona & Media Backlash

[00:54–07:30]

• Minhaj introduces Piker as a unique figure in the Twitch landscape, blending progressive politics with "bro" aesthetics, which confounds legacy media attempting to categorize him:
  • "Is he part of the manosphere? Is he a Nazi bully? Progressive? I mean, he's buff but he believes in human rights and wants universal healthcare." (Minhaj, 00:54)
• Discussion of the infamous New York Times profile, its shifting headlines (“A Progressive Mind in a Body Made for the Manosphere” vs. “A Progressive Mind and a MAGA Body”), and its obsession with Piker’s looks over his ideas.
• Piker’s take: “Classic New York Times. The editor came up with a title that pisses everybody off, regardless of their political background.” (05:04)
• Both joke about the gendered nature of objectification in media and the focus on aesthetics over substance.

2. Muslim Representation and Backlash

[07:31–12:20]

• Exploration of being visible Muslims in media, including parallels with figures like Zoran Mamdani, and the Islamophobic tropes still prevalent in news coverage.
• Piker: “He gets the exact same attacks that I get... after like the 700th time that I have to respond to ‘you’re a terrorist’…” (09:47)
• Minhaj and Piker dissect media fear-mongering (“6 degrees of 9/11”) and hostile political weaponization of Muslim identity.
• Humor emerges as coping mechanism: Piker riffs on being accused of celebrating 9/11.

3. Political Satire & The Eric Adams Videos

[12:20–16:23]

• Minhaj and Piker react to surreal videos of NYC Mayor Eric Adams, focusing on his religious language and bizarre orange-peeling technique.
  • “He’s peeling the orange with a peeler. And the white crust is just still on the orange… that’s so bitter.” (Piker, 13:14)
• The duo revels in the comedic absurdity of political optics, noting the blurred line between real politicians and fictional satire.

4. Enter the Streamer: Why Twitch? Why Politics?

[16:23–18:41]

• Piker explains his shift to Twitch: started as practice to improve off-script communication; recognized the lack of progressive voices among streamers.
• Sought to counter stereotypes of online leftists (“woke scold”) and make space for relatable, non-didactic progressive content.

5. Strength, Justice, and the Framing of the Left

[18:41–20:43]

• Discussion on the negative framing of justice and caring as “weakness” in American culture.
  • Minhaj: “All of the great people that shaped my political views… exhibited courage through strength.” (18:41)
• Piker asserts that the culture of nihilistic “edgelord” is partly a reaction to seeing others with conviction.

6. Role of Community and Digital Space

[20:48–22:48]

• Viewership sees Piker as commentator, community builder, and sometimes sparring partner. He notes that online community provides solace for outlier progressives (e.g., a progressive in the Deep South).

7. Political Labels: Leftist, Progressive, Anti-Capitalist

[26:14–32:16]

• Piker identifies as a leftist—defining the term as a broad tent that includes everything from social democracy to more radical Marxist tendencies.
  • “Empathy is what guides my politics.” (Piker, 26:42)
• Both Piker and Minhaj articulate their basic political disposition: a call for inalienable rights and valuing humans beyond economic productivity.
• Piker clarifies the difference between socialism (redistributing power to the working class), communism (theoretical stateless society), and liberalism (protection of private/corporate property).

8. Reconciling Wealth and Leftist Politics

[33:42–36:00]

• Addresses criticism that Piker’s personal success/homes/luxuries contradict leftist values:
  • “Socialism and leftism is about making sure that everyone has the same freedoms that I’ve been able to get for myself… Making sure everyone has time freedom, mind freedom.” (Piker, 34:11)
• Advocates not eradicating luxury, but democratizing access to basic comforts.

9. Immigration and Labor, Chomsky, and State Violence

[36:33–48:25]

• Nuanced breakdown of leftist perspectives on immigration: historical criminalization, economic utility of an undocumented underclass, and economic/racial exploitation.
  • “The difference between a documented and undocumented non-citizen is documentation. It's just paperwork." (Piker, 37:15)
• Piker cites Aviva Chomsky, then segues into Noam Chomsky’s influence, playing a “Manufacturing Consent” documentary clip and discussing US foreign policy hypocrisy.
• Both reflect on responsibility for state violence as taxpayers and as anti-imperialists.
  • “This entire machine is run on violence. That is the violence that is uni-party for the most part, it’s happening over there. Most people can feel like they're anti what's happening over there, but they don't let that disrupt their regular day…” (Piker, 46:20)

10. Turkish Identity, Insiderness/Outsiderness, and American Myth-Making

[51:52–58:25]

• Minhaj probes how Piker’s upbringing in Turkey and immigrant experience shape his anti-imperialist worldview.
• Shared experience of observing Western portrayals of Muslims and Middle Easterners with a sense of cognitive dissonance.
• Piker and Minhaj riff on the lack of civilizational depth in American cultural narratives, contrasting it to the mythical pasts of other places.
  • “That is something that Americans lack. It's actually not dissimilar... American nationalism has a very close similarity to the myth making of Nazi Germany because they had no, like, robust Roman Empire style culture...” (Piker, 55:02)

11. The Demands (and Dangers) of Streaming

[58:25–62:04]

• Piker describes the relentless cognitive pressure of reading/reacting to Twitch chat and the challenges of separating signal from noise.
  • “I can go into like almost a free flow state where on the one hand I'm reading an article... while also simultaneously browsing the chat... and then I'll pick something and I will deliberately move it into the main stage.” (Piker, 59:47)

12. Condemn or Condone: Meta-Commentary on Muslim Public Life

[62:04–66:23]

• Minhaj and Piker play “Condemn or Condone,” lampooning the endless calls for Muslims to issue public statements on random political issues.
• Piker jokes about having to constantly clarify his positions for hostile or lazy media:
  • “You gotta condemn Hamas a million times over before you approach the conversation of the humanity of Palestinians.” (Piker, 63:01)
• Rapid-fire takes on: Domino’s Pizza (condemned), NATO (condemned), Turkish baths (condoned), Mehdi Hassan (condoned), banning social media for those under 16 (condoned), radical Islamic terrorism (condemned, emphatically).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On objectification and the NYT profile:
  • “Even the photos made you look kind of like a zoo animal where they're like, check this out... Mr. Piker wore a tank top that showed off his arms.” —Minhaj (05:29)
• On being brown and visible in media:
  • "I've never understood representative politics until someone who is also a 33 year old socialist Muslim is running for office. He gets the exact same attacks that I get." —Piker (09:47)
• On Eric Adams and absurd political videos:
  • "The real crime is what the [expletive] he's doing to that orange, bro... that's so bitter." —Piker (13:09)
• On the left and “wokeness”:
  • “You don't have to be a woke scold to be a progressive person or a leftist... The thing I don't like about that framing... is justice being synonymous with being weak.” —Minhaj (18:41)
• On US foreign policy:
  • "This entire machine is run on violence. So it's like, and that is the violence that is uni-party, for the most part, it's happening over there... now they are openly pro war." —Piker (46:19)
• On streaming and public engagement:
  • “I can go into like almost a free flow state... reading an article... offering commentary... browsing the chat... and then I'll pick something and I will deliberately move it into the main stage.” —Piker (59:47)
• meta-reference to the Muslim media gauntlet:
  • “You gotta condemn Hamas a million times over before you approach the conversation of the humanity of Palestinians.” —Piker (63:01)

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Timestamps of Key Segments

• [00:54] – Minhaj’s introduction of Piker, media confusion
• [04:10–07:30] – NYT profile breakdown, objectification discourse
• [09:44] – Muslim identity, political attacks & media Islamophobia
• [12:25–16:23] – Eric Adams videos and the absurdity of political optics
• [16:23–18:41] – Piker’s origins and strategic approach to Twitch
• [26:14–27:00] – Political ideology rapid-fire (“I say I'm a leftist…”)
• [29:47–36:00] – Defining socialism, communism, liberalism, capitalism, and reconciling wealth
• [36:33–40:36] – Leftist view on immigration and exploitation of labor
• [41:26–46:03] – Chomsky, Manufacturing Consent, state violence
• [51:52–54:48] – Turkish identity, American myth-making
• [58:25–61:57] – Psychology of streaming, managing the torrent of live chat
• [62:23–66:23] – “Condemn or Condone” game (rapid-fire judgments)

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Final Thoughts

The Hasan Summit delivers incisive critiques, sharp humor, and approachable political explanations with a distinctively personal touch. Both Hasans bring their lived experience as visible Muslim public figures to bear on questions of American identity, digital community, and news, deftly blending sincerity, exasperation, and wit. The episode serves as both a primer on leftist thought and a window into the complexities of doing politics in the age of Twitch and Twitter.

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Transcript

[Hasan Piker]

Lemonade. As soon as I'm done with this, I'm gonna. I'm gonna go back down there and start my stream. So wait, you want to come down to 900 with me? You have time? I got. I gotta.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Let me try to figure. Because I gotta go to the location scout.

[Hasan Piker]

All right, well, I already. I already promoted it as you're coming.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Oh, you told him? What do I. What do I gotta do for, like. What do I do?

[Hasan Piker]

Nothing. All you gotta do is just, like, show up and be like, what's up? I had an idea of just, like, starting the stream, just having you there.

[Hasan Minhaj]

What is up, everybody? Hasan Piker here. Shout out to all the Hasanabis. Today is Friday. It's 85 degrees. We're in New York City. It's a beautiful day. Hope you're having a great Friday over there. It's 1:18pm Eastern Time.

[Hasan Piker]

That was amazing. Get out of here. All right, what's up? Let me get back in my seat.

[Hasan Minhaj]

As of this recording, Hassan Piker has the fourth most subscribed channel on Twitch, a platform that I don't use, and that kind of scares me. But even if Twitch was built for gamers, Piker has used Twitch as a home for news analysis, political debate, and even fundraising for causes that he supports. He's a new person doing a new format on a new platform which drives legacy media insane. Trying to label him. He's like, is he part of the manosphere? Is he a Nazi bully? Progressive? I mean, he's buff, but he believes in human rights and he wants universal healthcare.

[Hasan Piker]

What is it?

[Hasan Minhaj]

Who is. He isn't totally new. He spent years in progressive media and is pretty well read on politics and history, which he uses to present the news cycle to his streaming audience every day for 10 hours at a time, which is bonkers. When I look at the chat, I feel like I'm going to have a seizure.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah, it's normal.

[Hasan Minhaj]

You can see the matrix.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah.

[Hasan Minhaj]

So I sat down with one of the other Hussons to give me a 101 on progressive politics chat about Noam Chomsky and to get his take on a completely unhinged Eric Adams video that.

[Clip Voice]

Everybody needs to see, in addition to a book. Something simple as a crack pipe.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yo. Ladies and gentlemen, Hasan Piker. Hey, thanks for doing this, bro.

[Hasan Piker]

This is amazing.

[Hasan Minhaj]

So listen, man, you are one of the kings of reacting.

[Hasan Piker]

You're a reaction king, okay?

[Hasan Minhaj]

So I'm going to do something with you. This is. This is going to be pretty meta here. This is going to be my reaction. Hasan Minhaj reacts to Hasan Piker reacting to Hassan Minhas.

[Hasan Piker]

That makes so much sense. Ok, let's see.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Let's do it. You've been saying put your shoes on for the past 40 years, Senator Sanders, do you ever feel like blowing your brains out?

[Hasan Piker]

Occasionally? That was kind of funny. I'm not going to lie. He's a good, strong star. He just straight up as Bernie if he wants to kill himself. Dude, that's insane.

[Hasan Minhaj]

It's a great reaction. That's one of the nicest reactions I've gotten, bro. The Internet's a wild place, bro. I've gotten some mean reactions.

[Hasan Piker]

Oh, I've definitely. I've definitely given you some mean reactions myself. Probably.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah. Do not go. Let's not go through this.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah, let's not. Let's not go through the bad ones.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah, I go through the bats. I've gotten some, you know, the ones that, the personal, ad hoc, common ones are the ones that I can't. Oh, that cut deep. Why does he move his hands so much?

[Hasan Piker]

Oh, okay.

[Hasan Minhaj]

He's got eyebrows like fuzzy caterpillars.

[Hasan Piker]

You're so handsome. It's not, it's not. That's, like, it's. You're fine on that front. No, I, I, I, you know, I have a lot of animosity. We're here right now, but, like, as soon as I saw a dude, a Muslim dude named Hassan.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah.

[Hasan Piker]

On the Daily Show, I was like, oh, it's over. There's no way white people are going to be like, two Muslim. Hasan's doing political satire or political anything. It's not happening now. There's three. There's three. I don't know what happened.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Nah, it's a big. There's a lot happening in the world, man.

[Hasan Piker]

Because, like, if your name is John and my name is John, there's. We could have 10 of us.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Hey, can I tell you what I really wanted to chat with you about, bro? I was going to text you this. The New York Times profile on you was bonkers.

[Hasan Piker]

I know.

[Hasan Minhaj]

I was like, all right, I'm just going to have him on the pod. We're going to talk about it.

[Hasan Piker]

All right, let's take a look at.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Let's just, let's look at the title. Okay.

[Hasan Piker]

That'S the good headline.

[Hasan Minhaj]

A Progressive Mind in a Body Made for the Manosphere. That's what they changed it to. What was it before?

[Hasan Piker]

The bad one was Mega Body. They said. They said, like, left us with a maga body or something. They changed it after I yelled about it on stream. A Progressive mind and a MAGA Body article headline is not the best. Okay. I think what they were saying is like, like MAGA packaging. I think that would have been probably a better title for this. Instead of a progressive mind and a MAGA body. If they said progressive mind in a MAGA package or something, or in a bro package or a manosphere package. MAGA body, that's gonna piss off a lot of people. Classic New York Times. The editor came up with a title that pisses everybody off, regardless of their political background. Like the liberals were mags. They were like, MAGA body. Excuse me, like, have you ever been to a Walmart in Oklahoma? Like, that's not what MAGA body is. And then all the Republicans were mad because they were, I guess, like associating me with maga.

[Hasan Minhaj]

You pissed off every part of the vendor.

[Hasan Piker]

Everybody.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Nobody was happy. Even the photos made you look kind of like a zoo animal where they're like, check this out. Let's look at this first photo for an appearance at the 2024 TwitchCon. Mr. Piker wore a tank top that showed off his arms.

[Hasan Piker]

I didn't even read that description.

[Hasan Minhaj]

This is the description.

[Hasan Piker]

This is crazy.

[Hasan Minhaj]

This is one of the main descriptions. This is what I'm talking about.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Now how does it feel to be treated like a female politician?

[Hasan Piker]

No, it's awesome because I grew up fat.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Okay.

[Hasan Piker]

So like when I. Oh yeah, you've talked about that. Yeah. So when I get objectified, I'm like, sweet. People will be like. People in the comment section always be like, no one would listen to you if you weren't hot. And I'm like, oh, you think I'm hot? Thank you. That's nice. But it's. I mean, obviously objectification doesn't work in the same way for men, but they're trying hard, right?

[Hasan Minhaj]

Every part of it's insane. Why? Why this obsession with your body, I.

[Hasan Piker]

Think is it's a little bit like Zoron. Which again, another 33 year old Muslim guy. What the. What's going on? Are we doing Takiya? Is that. Is that. I never knew what that was, by the way, until I came to America and I heard it from an Islamophobe. Is that what's going on? There's like a Muslim infiltration happening, I think. But after his victory in New York. Yeah. Everybody was like, oh, it's because he's handsome. Oh, he won because he's doing good. Social media, it's like, it's never about like what his message is, even though that was what penetrated to the consciousness of so many people. Like a guy who was young and dynamic and just went out and was like, what's your problem? I'll solve it. Right. Like that's what we're supposed to do. It's pretty basic stuff.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah.

[Hasan Piker]

But everybody focuses on the optics and the aesthetics. And the same goes for myself as well. I mean, I'm really happy to be profiled by the New York Times. It's great. You know, it's not. My expectation of being written in these mainstream albums is often going to be like, somewhat negative coverage. Right, right. But whenever these kinds of puff pieces or profiles happen, they just hyper focus on the aesthetics and not necessarily what I talk about as a political commentator.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah.

[Hasan Piker]

There was a piece in that article where they covered it briefly and they were like, Hassan has controversial opinions. For example, he has claimed Israel is doing a genocide, which I feel like is not a controversial opinion at this point. The journalist who wrote that probably had to fight hard to even get that in the article. Right. Because it's in the style section. But like I said, I don't really mind that kind of positive coverage because I almost feel like it's a way for some journalists to be like, no, no, he's good. Without. Without tackling the actual politics of it all.

[Hasan Minhaj]

You've been following the Zoran Mamdani stuff, right?

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah, my boy.

[Hasan Minhaj]

So he had. You had him on the stream?

[Hasan Piker]

I did. Okay. He was at 8%. I'm just saying. He was like, nobody. Nobody was.

[Hasan Minhaj]

What did you guys do? You guys, like, pulled up to, like, just a restaurant, right.

[Hasan Piker]

And you just. Yeah, we went to a restaurant that he chose that one of his homies was running.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah.

[Hasan Piker]

And we just started there, had a conversation there, and then we just walked Astoria. And he took me to, I think it was a Bangladeshi restaurant. Yeah. If I'm not mistaken, we went there, we saw the Unks. And then afterwards he took me to like, a bunch of these, like, different coffee shops, like Yemeni coffee shops in the. In the area. And it was an amazing experience. Yeah, yeah. I mean, he's really, really charismatic. He's got that 33 years of being a visible Muslim guy defense mechanism always. So he just. He can just like, eat it. When someone just like, says something crazy to him. He could just go. He can do jiu jitsu and just like immediately bring it back to affordability is a real crisis. Right, right.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Tai chi. And he's just like, but we have to freeze the Rent.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah, you know, crazy like, because I.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Don'T know if you. Have you seen the New York Post covers? Pull this up. Nuts.

[Hasan Piker]

Can to hate for mayor. Dangerous Ma'. Am.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Dangerous Ma' Am is wild. Now, now, because what you, what you're not noticing about this one, it says Dangerous ma' am and then right there it says, actor Val kilmer dies at 65. So when I saw that one, I was like, did he kill Val Kilmer? Are they saying he killed Val Kilmer?

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah, that's what he did.

[Hasan Minhaj]

When you see all this stuff, what's it like for you?

[Hasan Piker]

I mean, they write about me quite extensively.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Oh, the New York Post.

[Hasan Piker]

Oh, yeah. Um, when I see this stuff, I said this before, like, I'd never have felt so. Like, I never understood like representative politics until someone who is also a 33 year old socialist Muslim is, is running for office. He gets the exact same attacks that I get. He is much better at dealing with them because I think after like the 700 time that I have to respond to like, you're a terrorist. Why do you want to throw gay people off roofs from a guy whose name is like, you know, Hitler's hit 1488. I'm like, me, right?

[Hasan Minhaj]

You just. And now you're engaging in discourse with this.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah, now I'm like, I'm talking to a guy who, like, I look at your older statements in the chat and you're calling me the f slur for defending gay people. Now you're saying I want to throw gay people off the roof. Like, it doesn't make sense. I do have a tendency to lose it a little bit. I never can do the same jiu jitsu that he engages in and stay on message.

[Hasan Minhaj]

This second one is Wild college group co founded by Mamdani hosted speaker who blamed us for 911 attacks. The 6 degrees of 911 is kind of wild work on that New York Post.

[Hasan Piker]

They try to, they. You want to know something crazy? Cuomo tried to use me and him talking to me as a, as a line of attack in the debates. He didn't, he didn't say. He didn't reference me by name, but he was like, why did you dialogue with someone who said 911 was good? Which I, I didn't say them. I'm not Mr. Mandani. I don't give forums to extremists who blame America for 9 11. That was, was he talking about me? But yeah, they love, they love doing the 911 thing. Like, they love being like, you know, he is Muslim and you know who did 911 Muslims. It's super racist.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Congressman Richie Torres actually wrote a letter to the companies that host his podcast.

[Hasan Piker]

And.

[Hasan Minhaj]

And he said he's an apologist for October 7th, but also he's anti American and an apologist for 9 11. And was he cheering? Was he cheering in New Jersey? Donald Trump says, yeah, I was cheering. Look, rooftops in Jersey.

[Hasan Piker]

Look.

[Hasan Minhaj]

I mean, you were in Turkey at the time.

[Hasan Piker]

I was. No, I was in. I was in a New Jersey rooftop. I was dancing. But to be fair, I didn't know that it was happening. I did not know that 911 was happening. It was a Zumba class. It was all the rage.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Got it at the time. You're one of the early, early kids to Zumba.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah, it was just. It was awkward that it just gets talked about in this way.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Sure, we're talking about Zoron, but we have to talk about the other candidates. We should talk about Eric Adams.

[Hasan Piker]

Oh, my favorite.

[Hasan Minhaj]

I've seen. You've seen the Get Ready video, right?

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah, of course. I've seen all of his videos.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Let's take a look.

[Clip Voice]

God will be done. You know, if God used for me to continue to be the mayor of this great city, I'mma do the work. And God is. Is my guiding light. I like to say I turn on my gps, my God position the satellite, and he's running the show. And all I have to do is continue to be the person that I've always been, and I'm not going to see myself as success.

[Hasan Piker]

Oh, pause it. Can we pause it?

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah, let's take. Let's take a quick pause.

[Hasan Piker]

Wait. Oh, okay. Sorry. I'm a professional reactor. I have to point something out.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah, go ahead. You talking about the time? The time?

[Hasan Piker]

Well, the time is the classic.

[Hasan Minhaj]

We've talked about the time.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah, we talked about the time. The real crime is what the he's doing to that orange, bro.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Oh, he's.

[Hasan Piker]

He's peeling the orange. Yeah, he's peeling the orange with a peeler. And, like, the white crust is just still on the orange.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Still in the orange.

[Hasan Piker]

How are you eating that orange? Why are you peeling it if you're gonna.

[Hasan Minhaj]

He wants. He wants a little bit of rind in there. He wants a little bit of the skin.

[Hasan Piker]

No, it's like. That's so bitter.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Oh, the white. That.

[Hasan Piker]

The white part is like the worst part, that you only peel the orange like that if you want to use it as Z.

[Hasan Minhaj]

By the way, don't say that the New York Post is going to now quote you. The white part is the worst part. Oh, true piker. The white part is the worst part.

[Hasan Piker]

That's true. I. I have. I've been canceled for that too.

[Hasan Minhaj]

No, I'm pro. The white part on the orange, by the way. I think the white part is the best part.

[Hasan Piker]

Oh, okay.

[Hasan Minhaj]

I think it gives it a bit.

[Hasan Piker]

White is right, you're saying.

[Hasan Minhaj]

I'm saying white is right.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah. God, I love Eric Adam so much. He's just such a fascinating figure.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Oh, he's a fascinating guy.

[Hasan Piker]

He is exactly the type of mayor you would have in like a TV show or a cartoon. Like an early Simpsons.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Sure, Totally. Have you seen the 2011 contraband video?

[Hasan Piker]

Of course.

[Clip Voice]

Let's go look at picture frames behind them. Cameras.

[Hasan Piker]

The music.

[Clip Voice]

Determine which the music's incredible. Behind a picture frame you can find bullets. You should always. When your child bring in his Keep my boat.

[Hasan Piker]

Popular napsack.

[Clip Voice]

Look through it to see what exactly is your child carrying. In addition to a book. Something simple as a crack pipe. Something simple as a. As a baby doll. Could be just a baby doll. But also it could be a place where you could secrete or hide drugs.

[Hasan Minhaj]

You could secrete drugs?

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah.

[Clip Voice]

And see if you feel anything that's unusual. Like a pillow like this with a button is a perfect invitation to hide something. And I've felt something bumpy. I would reach in, see what it is. Just look and see what it could be. More than just books. Perfect place to hide cocaine.

[Hasan Piker]

Dude. Popular knapsack with many different locations is a bar.

[Hasan Minhaj]

It's an incredible quote.

[Hasan Piker]

It's cop speak.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah.

[Hasan Piker]

But like he's such a cop that he. He's just like. Yeah. I'm tactically ascertaining this popular knapsack with many different locations.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Who is this child that has dolls?

[Hasan Piker]

Pablo Escobar. Yeah. It's. I just.

[Hasan Minhaj]

I determined it's either one of two things. It's either your kid is an investment banker.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Or a seven year old crackhead.

[Hasan Piker]

I love that he busts out the revolver. It's awesome. Yeah.

[Hasan Minhaj]

The pillowcase revolver is pretty great.

[Hasan Piker]

It's. It's all because it's very uncomfortable. I feel like you just lay on it. Accidental, accidental discharge. You're done.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Every part of it is actually quite brilliant. And shout out to whoever edited that and added the music. No notes. He's.

[Hasan Piker]

He's so. I even sometimes think about this with Trump too. Like I wish they were just like always on camera. And we just kind of lied to them and said that they were like in charge.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah.

[Hasan Piker]

So they just kept doing the stuff that they were doing, but then they weren't actually in charge.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Oh, you mean, you mean basically tell Eric Adams and Donald Trump, like, we'll.

[Hasan Piker]

Just give you, yeah, you're mayor, you're president. And then we just film them and it's yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then they can just like do the things that they're the best at, which is being hilarious. Yeah. Incredibly telegenic.

[Hasan Minhaj]

When did you, when did you commit to this whole, like, when did you commit to this as a lifestyle?

[Hasan Piker]

Streaming. I started doing it in 2018 when I was at the Young Turks. I was full time and I did it because I wanted to get better at off the cuff communication because like everything that I had done thus far up until that point, I was really bad on camera. And I would write scripts, which was great because it, you know, shaped these arguments that I was making. And that was great, but it was all pre scripted and I was just very bad off script. I couldn't do free flow back and forth communication. Now I can't shut the up. So obviously it worked, but.

[Hasan Minhaj]

So you got good at riffing? Basically, yes.

[Hasan Piker]

I wanted to get good at riffing and I was like, if I play video games, I'm already playing Fortnite with my friends. They're all like journalists and podcasters and whatnot. I. If I can get good at like playing video games while also entertaining people, then like, it would be much easier for me to go out and do public speaking and things like that. That was one of the reasons why I started it because I was like, I want to max out on my time. I want to be more efficient because I'm already playing video games, might as well strap a camera onto my PlayStation, start doing this thing. I wanted a place for myself, you know, because I was working at the Young Turks, but I wanted something that wasn't under the shadow of my uncle. And I also understood the gaming space because I'm a gamer, you know, I play video games, I love video games. And I knew that like the environment itself was very diverse, but there wasn't necessarily any like left wing progressive voices in that space at the time. It was entirely dominated by neckbeards and were very right wing, even though gamers broadly were not.

[Hasan Minhaj]

God damn.

[Hasan Piker]

But that's all they saw. So I was like, I think I can like, you know, I can tackle the space and also show people that the, the memes about like. Because back then there was this like defining trait of like the social justice Warrior, you know, blue haired, hysterical, all this stuff. The crying lady from the 2020 inauguration, like they always point to that, right? And I wanted to be like, look like, that's not, that's not what it's about. You don't have to be a woke scold to be a progressive person or a leftist. You don't have to be a kill to be a, a progressive person or a leftist.

[Hasan Minhaj]

The thing I don't like about that framing too, by the way, and I was chatting about this with our producer before you even got here, is the framing behind justice being synonymous with being weak. Yeah, that to me is a misnomer as well, because it's like all of the great people that shaped my political views of the world, Malcolm X, Kareem Abdul Jabbar, Muhammad Ali, they exhibited courage through strength. They were incredibly strong and chivalrous and kind and cared for the weak. There was nothing about them that was, hey, where's my inhaler? Yeah, they, they were, they were there to protect others. So like, like, I don't know, at what point did that happen in popular culture that justice and weakness and meekness became like, I mean, covalent bonded to each other. But it was never like that for me.

[Hasan Piker]

It's just like a cynical framing in an effort to like vilify your opponents for caring. Because like on the Internet, I think like nihilism is almost seen as, as a, is a benefit when you're like, oh, I'm, I'm edgy, I'm nihilistic, I don't really care about anything. Sure, right. Like, if you care about something, you lose. So I think that's, that's the way that like these people were presented because they care so much that they're like even getting emotional about it. Right? They were able to like vilify people and like make them look foolish and, and that's not the case. Like these people, regardless of how they look or how they sound, they actually care about something. That's why they're emotional. And many of them are going out there and in certain instances putting their bodies online. Like we go out to the ICE protests in la, people are getting shot at. You know what I mean? You might be online and you might be like a edgelord online and present yourselves as like this cool guy, but the reality is like, those people that you made fun of, like, they're out there, they're putting their bodies in front of cops, they're getting brutalized, they're getting shot, they're getting, you know, pepper sprayed and tear gassed and arrested. And they're facing consequences and arrested. Exactly. You're not doing any of that because there's nothing you stand for.

[Hasan Minhaj]

People.

[Hasan Piker]

People don't like seeing others with conviction. I think, do people see what you're.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Doing as, hey, he's going to help me make sense of the news. Hey, he's somebody that I hang out with or just Hasan is someone I'm gonna argue with.

[Hasan Piker]

I think all three at different points. But it's mostly, I think I. I help communicate how people are feeling about certain events, or I help them realize, like, that they're not alone in this. In this feeling. Especially if you're, like, living in the Deep south and your worldview doesn't immediately match up with, like, everything that you see around you, and you're like, what's. What are these guys saying? Like, I don't really agree with this. And then they find this community, this space online, and they're like, oh, so there are a lot of people.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Do you feel like the reason why people may see you and be like, I don't know what's going on here? Is it probably like, look, this guy is on a new and nascent platform. Twitch. I don't know what this is.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah.

[Hasan Minhaj]

And then he's talking about things to my kids. He's. He's resonating with the youth on a new and nascent platform. So for me, I feel like people look at you almost like they're like a hostage negotiator. Outside of, like, you know, in those movies, Robert Duvall, it's like, what do you want, Hasan Piker?

[Hasan Piker]

That is how I feel sometimes. I feel like that. I mean, like I said, I. For the first couple of years of my career, when. When journalists would reach out to try to do profiles, I was, like, very worried about it, and I was like, no, it's fine. I don't want this kind of attention. It's cool because, like, I wanted to grow at my pace. But, I mean, I think it was after the 2020 election where the cat's out of the bag at that point, you know, and now it's. It's. Now it's interesting. It's mostly not about my politics and. And just about the aesthetics of it. All right? But I think that's just how it is. But I'm not. I'm far from the first guy that. That looks like this, that talks about politics. There's Cuomo's out there doing his thing at News at News Nation.

[Hasan Minhaj]

I thought you were gonna I thought you're gonna bring up Kennedy's extremely handsome son that has now reemerged into the algo that people are going crazy over.

[Hasan Piker]

Are you. Oh, I thought you were going to.

[Hasan Minhaj]

I thought you were going to talk about rfk.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah.

[Hasan Minhaj]

No, no, no, no.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah, he's.

[Hasan Minhaj]

He's. What if I was like, what if I was like, yeah, rfk. It's kind of a smoke show.

[Hasan Piker]

You would not be the only guy who thinks that. Apparently he's a real charmer.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Sure.

[Hasan Piker]

Allegedly.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Allegedly.

[Hasan Piker]

Anytime. Like there's a female reporter that writes about him. She's captivated. Activated stun pheromones.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Apparently a nuclear power plant in Western Europe had to shut down because a massive swarm of jellyfish got into its cooling water. I found out about this story from Ground News, which is today's sponsor. Ground News shows a breakdown of publications reporting on a story. Which way they tend to lean politically, right, left or center. And it's not about eliminating bias. We've all got biases. It's just trying to make you aware of the potential biases of different publications so you can consider them as you analyze an event or an issue. For example, when I read the jellyfish story, I was able to scroll between some of the 88 reporting publications. I noticed that most of the left leaning publications were quick to attribute it to global warming, while some right leaning publications described it as an invasion. One even cautioned that jellyfish can also hitch rides on tanker ships. Quote what are they planning? Use the link in description or go to groundnews.com Hasan H A S A N to get 40% off their vantage plan. The same one that we use here at HMDK that breaks down to just five bucks a month. For unlimited access, visit groundnews.comhassan and subscribe today. The long days of summer are already getting shorter and the last thing I want to do with my valuable time is spend hours in the grocery store. Fluorescent lighting is not a great look for your boy. I have decided to make this season both enjoyable and delicious by getting hello fresh. Every week you can choose from 60 delicious and healthy recipes to have delivered straight to your door. Plus their new ready to make meals are heat and go ready in only three minutes. Next on my list is the Chimchurri Chicken Grain bowl and the Spicy Coconut Shrimp Curry Soup. I can't wait to add that and try it. I'm getting them delivered to the office so my team stops wasting time on their pesky little meal breaks. Make your summer enjoyable and delicious by Signing up for Sign up for [e-mail] Hassan10FM and get 10 free meals with a free item for life. That's hellofresh.com Hasan10FM for 10 free meals and a free item in every box. Hellofresh.com Hassan10FM one per box with an active subscription. Free meals are applied as a discount on the first box. New subscribers only. Varies by plan. Here's what I'm going to do. I've faced this before where no one asks you in a very clean, straightforward format, what are your political beliefs? Okay, we'll just get it clean. What is your political ideology?

[Hasan Piker]

I say I'm a leftist. And the reason why I say that because it ranges all the way from you know, Maoist beliefs I guess, to in America, even social democracy, it's a big tent. And the reason why I don't like particularly abide by one kind of Marxist orthodoxy is because I think that in America we have no broad coalition of the left. The DSA is trying to do that and have seen some success here in New York especially. But yeah, I say I'm a leftist, I'm a progressive. Empathy is what guides my politics. And yeah, that's it. I did a very bad job. You asked me no question.

[Hasan Minhaj]

It's a very.

[Hasan Piker]

And I gave you a very bad answer.

[Hasan Minhaj]

I've never been able to articulate it either. Here's, here's kind of what my political disposition is. My basic POV is that all human beings have inalienable rights. Every human being has divine goodness within them. Human beings are more than a PNL sheet or things that can generate profit for corporations or provide shareholder value. And I don't think you should kill people for money. That's pretty much it. And apparently that makes me either like a terrorist or a Cuban spy.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah, that makes sense.

[Hasan Minhaj]

People try to put that into like a two party political box, but that's really what it is.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah, well it's neither party in the two party that really represents that because I think that is antithetical to capitalism in general. I would say broadly I am anti capitalist. Like that's not, I don't correct people when they, when they say I'm any variant of, of leftist, I guess unless they say I'm an anarchist, I'm not an anarchist. That's it. But you're right, my, my politics are people first. And I think that we can genuinely improve society broadly if we were to. And I'll use like a, like a liberal term here that people like we would be able to maximize the potential of people that are in developing nations in, that have been subject to untold amounts of cruelty at the behest of super profits that we extract from the global South. I feel like a better future is possible. We live in an era where we have an abundance. We, not that, you know, shouts out to Derek Thompson, but we have, we have a surplus of food. Like solving that problem is a matter of profit. Because if food production was no longer profitable, if we were just giving it for free to people that need it.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah.

[Hasan Piker]

Then all of a sudden, you know, that breaks the entire system. There are so many things that we could, so many things that we could solve if we were to just be like, all right, let's just, let's just draw profit on this one. Let's not worry about, let's not worry about making money on this one. How about, how about we just, you know, have a little handshake deal here? Health care, housing, like, I think these are solvable issues. And the only hurdle is that we have just simply not evolved away from this, this current organization of the economy.

[Hasan Minhaj]

You know, man, I've, I've always felt this, being a comedian and an artist, it's a very like, woo woo, human first disposition. So a lot of what you're saying resonates with me. I've been put under the progressive umbrella before, but I'd love to chat with you about what these ideas mean to you. So I'm gonna ask you about like six or seven questions.

[Hasan Piker]

Let's do it.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Let's break it down. Okay, Hasan Piker, to you. What is socialism?

[Hasan Piker]

Socialism is redefining and reorienting the classist politics that we currently have away from the capital, owning class, owning both the means of production and virtually every facet of power and redistributing it in a democratic fashion back to the largest class, the working class.

[Hasan Minhaj]

How is socialism different than communism?

[Hasan Piker]

Communism is supposed to be the end stage. It's like the final goal. It's like the final evolution. Stateless, moneyless, classless society. Yeah, a borderless society. We've never really had communism. I know people will just like jokingly sometimes say real communism has never been tried. Like, but that literally has never existed. Communist parties have existed. Now you have modern iterations of that, like China. Heavy state ownership, heavy state control over the entirety of commerce, a command economy. You have places that resemble this formation in Cuba, but we've never really had like a communist formation at all. I wouldn't say I'm a communist but when people call me that, I don't really care because I'm like, I think that's pretty cool. Star Trek, it's the Star Trek universe. To have a moneyless society. Like, I feel as though that is definitely an honorable end goal to reach where we have all of our needs met.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Got you. You know, so what I'm hearing, and tell me if I'm, if I'm hearing you correctly, is, is the core ethos of communism in your mind is almost like a collectivist spirit that you would have. Almost like with your family.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Within your household.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Behind closed doors and assuming the family's functional. Not like the family that I grew up in. It was highly dysfunctional for sure.

[Hasan Piker]

But like, but it's, it's even beyond that. It's just, it's the next stage in the evolution. It's like moving away from like feudalism to, to capitalism, like capitalist liberal democracies. And then the next stage from that, from social democracies to socialism. And then eventually I guess like once there is no more need, once, once we have everything produced, maybe one day in the future we could have all of these problems solved and then there would be no more need for money. Who knows? I'm not saying that that's like what I suspect is going to happen.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Right.

[Hasan Piker]

But I'm saying that as an end goal. That doesn't sound bad.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Got it. What you're saying is you're like, that's where my political and social compass is pointing. Whether that's possible or not.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah.

[Hasan Minhaj]

What is the difference between a liberal and a leftist?

[Hasan Piker]

Capitalism, I would say, okay, like a liberal in the European sense is actually considered a right winger. Like liberal parties in Europe are right wing parties. They're center right or even sometimes far right parties. Whereas a leftist, which is kind of like a made up, that's not like a historic traditional movement term at all. You usually have like specific delineations. You have ideological tendencies. You're a Marxist, Leninist. You're a Marxist Leninist, Maoist, Maoist, Third Worldist, communist, socialist, democratic, socialist, social democrat. A liberal is. A liberal is basically someone who is a capitalist. Motivating principle is usually the protection of private property. Whereas I would say a leftist cares little about that, cares about personal property. Like you can have a house, you can have a car. There's no issues with that. But it's, it revolves around the protection of capital accumulation. A liberal will protect capital accumulation, whereas a leftist doesn't necessarily care about it as much. Most leftists got it so leftist is.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Almost like, hey, you can have your basic needs met with a house, a car, clothes. Yeah, but.

[Hasan Piker]

Or even like luxury goods if you want to buy luxury goods. I mean, that's not. Like. Some people might get mad at me for that, and a lot of people get mad at me.

[Hasan Minhaj]

How do you square the circle with all that stuff? With the. With when people say you're a left, and again, they're labeling you. You're a leftist.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah.

[Hasan Minhaj]

You have a house.

[Hasan Piker]

Well, they say I'm a communist when they want to get mad at me about that.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Okay. Okay, gotcha. How do you. How do you reconcile all of that sort of stuff?

[Hasan Piker]

I've never actually advocated against people having nice things, but that's just kind of the box that people automatically assume you're in. I think it was falsely attributed to Deng. Deng Xiaoping, who said, socialism isn't about poverty, to be rich is glorious, which he didn't actually technically say, but he never corrected it, so I'm just gonna attribute it to him. Socialism and leftism is about making sure that everyone has the same freedoms that I've been able to. To get for myself. The financial freedoms of not having to constantly check your phone to worry about your bank balance by the time the end of the month is coming around. Things that I've experienced as well in my life to constantly have to worry about the pressures of maybe not being able to make rent. Right. Maybe not being able to make the car payments that you have to make. The way I see being a regular working class person is. Is kind of like having all of this extra weight on you at every. At any given moment throughout the day that a person like yourself does not have any longer. Yeah. A person like myself does not have any longer. Where it's like a weight is lifted off your shoulders when you no longer have to have these, like, tremendous financial pressures. That actually is an anchor like that that basically curbs your potential. It limits your potential. It stops you from enjoying life. And I don't think that that should be paywalled. Like, we shouldn't shut off that access then. I don't think that this current economic organization of society allows that to happen. So my advocacy revolves around everyone being able to have nice things or time to themselves or more autonomy in their workplace. And it's not about, like, oh, you don't get to have nice things at all. I'm gonna take your toothbrush away.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah. And what you're talking about is like, not only just the financial freedom, but like, time freedom.

[Hasan Piker]

Yes.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Mind freedom. We had a. We had a taste of it with COVID Remember how when everyone, everyone kind of stopped and they're like, yeah, for the first time it was pencils down for the entire, like, for the majority of kind of corporate America. There was like a little moment of that and then the S P 500 had to continue.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah. There's too much. People had too much real estate, like commercial real estate that they bought. People have to get back to work. What are we doing?

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah. What is the left wing slash leftist perspective on immigration?

[Hasan Piker]

I guess there's diversity of thought in every movement, including on the left as well. But mine is, I am pro immigration. I don't think that there is any issue with immigration at all, but the way that immigration works, I think it was Aviva Chomsky, one of Noam Chomsky's daughters, who wrote a book on this. I think it was called Immigration how or Illegal. I'm butchering the name of the book, but she wrote a great book about this where she details the history of how like migration actually became a crime. And, and the reasons as to why it became a crime was to. To create a permanent second class citizen in the United States. A permanent underclass basically, that you can use and abuse and discard through this legal system, which was initially implemented under the, the second Bracero program during World War II when we actually brought in Mexican migrant workers. And then Eisenhower turned around and. And engaged in a horrifying mass deportation operation which was named after a slur. I'm not going to say the slur, sure. But it was literally on the New York Times, like they wrote, operation WB is the slur. Okay. And actually Trump was promoting that when he was running this last election cycle. He was like, he did great things. Eisenhower, he did so much good. And I couldn't believe that he was saying that. Anyway, I'm rambling on because this is what I do on Twitch all the time. The real inhumanity of immigration in this country is what we do to the migrants and both what we do to their hosts home countries initially, the destabilization and also even climate change and its impact on like agricultural production in those places, the instability that we cause in the global south that create migration patterns into the United States of America. And then the cruelty never really stops because the difference between a documented and undocumented non citizen is documentation. It's just paperwork. Right.

[Hasan Minhaj]

And also the luck of birth.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah, exactly.

[Hasan Minhaj]

What piece of soil you were lucky enough to be born into.

[Hasan Piker]

And so my argument is there's no, like, only finite amount of labor available because it's, it's something that consistently expands. Yeah. I like to make an argument for socialist policies from the perspective of selfishness oftentimes because I think that Americans like that there are jobs for everyone. The notion that, the notion that there's only a finite amount of jobs and then like immigrants are going to come in and take those jobs and then it's going to depress the wages. Yet that only happens if they are kept undocumented. And the powerful forces in this country, capital owners, recognize that reality, which is why we play this weird game of dehumanizing undocumented immigrants. It's obviously racism that plays a big role here, 100%. But that racism is actually simply a weapon that is wielded by capitalist forces in this country so that they can continue keeping these people undocumented. Because if they were documented, they would be able to, alongside the already existing naturalized or, or, you know, American born labor force, go side by side and advocate for better workplace conditions.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Right? Yeah, yeah.

[Hasan Piker]

And that's the real problem here because.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Right.

[Hasan Piker]

Having a consistently growing pool of undocumented migrant workers does have the capacity to depress wages for the documented labor force. The only way to actually drive up those wages is by unionizing, is by demanding higher wages.

[Hasan Minhaj]

And they would have to. And they would have to have documentation and citizenship in order to have collective action, to participate in union, to then have the leverage over their employer to negotiate a better wage.

[Hasan Piker]

And they do that. Purdue is a notorious example of this. There was a bunch of poultry facilities. One of them is Purdue, and they would hire undocumented workers on purpose. They would put them in a trailer park next to the factory. And then when these undocumented workers would complain about back pay that they weren't getting or sexual harassment that were happening, they would just call ICE and deport them. And then next week go back to the same exact places, find new undocumented workers to bring to the same trailer park to work at the factory. Like it's built into the system. Yeah. That's precisely the reason why the punishment for factory owners for hiring undocumented workers knowingly is marginal. It's much cheaper for them in the long run to simply hire undocumented workers and then discard them like they're. They're nothing when their, their use is done.

[Hasan Minhaj]

You were talking about Noam Chomsky's daughter earlier. Was Chomsky a big political influence for you in his writing?

[Hasan Piker]

For sure, yeah. Have you seen manufacturing consent the, like, I read it.

[Hasan Minhaj]

I'm going to play you a clip. But there's, you know, there's a documentary in the late 80s, early 90s.

[Hasan Piker]

Oh, I think. I think I've seen a piece of it where they talk about, like, it's very well drawn. There's, like, drawings.

[Hasan Minhaj]

There's drawings. There's archival. Okay, so this is my favorite. So. So if Shout out to Noam Chomsky, one of the goats, he was super, super influential for me as well. I'm gonna play you a clip. Okay, this is one of my favorite clips from Manufacturing Consent, the documentary. So this is Noam Chomsky dunking on a very young David, we should be.

[Noam Chomsky]

Responsible for our own actions, primarily because.

[Hasan Piker]

Your method is not only to ignore the corpses created by them, but also to ignore corpses that are created by neither side, but which are irrelevant to your ideological.

[Noam Chomsky]

That's totally untrue.

[Hasan Piker]

Well, let me give you an example. One of your own causes that you take very seriously is the cause of the Palestinians. And a Palestinian corpse weighs very heavily on your conscience, and yet a Kurdish corpse does not.

[Noam Chomsky]

That's not true at all. I've been involved in Kurdish support groups for years. That's absolutely true. It's absolutely false. I mean, just ask the Kurdish. Ask the people who are involved in. I mean, you know, they come to me, I sign their petitions, and so on and so forth. And if you look at the stuff, at the things we've written. Let's take a look. I mean, I'm not Amnesty International. I can't do everything. I'm a single universal person. But if you read, say, take a look, say at the book that Edward Herman and I wrote on this topic. In it, we discuss three kinds of atrocities, what we call benign bloodbaths, which nobody cares about, constructive bloodbaths, which are the ones we like, and nefarious bloodbaths, which are the ones that the bad guys do. The principle that I think we ought to follow is not the one that you stated. You know, it's a very simple ethical point. You're responsible for the predictable consequences of your actions. You're not responsible for the predictable consequences of somebody else's actions. The most important thing for me and for you is to think about the consequences of your actions. What can you affect?

[Hasan Minhaj]

It's a fire Chomsky clip.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah. I can't believe David Frum is still working.

[Hasan Minhaj]

So for those of you watching, this is a young David Frum, who, fun fact, was one of the authors of George W. Bush's the axis of evil spirit.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah.

[Noam Chomsky]

States like these and their terrorist allies constitute an axis of evil, arming to threaten the peace of the world. We will develop and deploy effective missile defenses to protect America and our allies from sudden attack.

[Hasan Piker]

It is funny for David Frum to hit the. You don't care about the Kurds because one, Kurdish militia movements in the region have an honorable goal that I also agree with. Kurdish emancipation, even though I'm Turkish. Okay, don't come at me. They are also propped up by the, the American state. And ironically enough, Chomsky has written extensively on this, where he will routinely criticize America for arming the Kurdish militias and basically dangle emancipation or statehood in front of them. A 35 million ethnic group with no nation state in the region. You know, bits and pieces in every country, including Turkey, America will just dangle statehood in front of them to basically use and abuse them, to just wield them as a weapon in the region for destabilization, and then we'll let the Turks roll over them every single time. And Noam Chomsky has written extensively on it. But what's interesting to me about what David Frum is doing there is that it's the exact same thing that David Frum does right now. And everyone like David Frum that is like super pro Israel or super pro American imperialism in the region will always be like, well, what about the Kurds? Or what about Sudan? And it's like, okay, that's also bad. And we are also kind of involved in all of those things. But you're, you're just simply pointing to that to deflect away from Palestine, which is something that again, we are doing.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Well, what, what Chomsky also says at the end of that clip that I think is really interesting, he's saying I'm responsible for my actions.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah.

[Hasan Minhaj]

And, and one of the things that I've grappled with too, as an American citizen, someone who pays taxes, is what are my tax dollars doing? What are they funding? That's really shaped my political disposition. But also some of the great, you know, civil rights activists. I mean, the book right there behind me, Muhammad Ali, you know, his, his work in the 60s and 70s against the war in Vietnam also shaped my whole position on both individual violence and state sanctioned violence.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah.

[Hasan Minhaj]

I don't know how you feel about it. For me, in regards to violence, I've just never been able to be pro violence.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah. I am openly an anti imperialist. Like, that's the one thing that gets me into, into trouble in American politics. More than anything else.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Why I don't understand.

[Hasan Piker]

Because this entire machine is run on violence. So it's like, and that is the violence that is uni party for the most part, it's happening over there. Most people can feel like they're anti what's happening over there, but they don't let that disrupt their regular day, their day to day experience. And, and because of that, I think especially in like the last two decades, I would say like the Democratic Party is also, is no longer like even the esthetically anti war party. It's, we have two parties that are pro war basically, and maybe they were always pro war, but now they are openly pro war. They're championing the pro war message. And I guess Donald Trump actually successfully took advantage of that dynamic to present himself as anti war, even though he very clearly wasn't in his first term and he certainly has not been so far. Right. But you said like no violence whatsoever. I'm not a violent person. I abhor violence. I think violence is something that we must eradicate in its entirety, but it's also a functional part of politics, like violence. As a matter of fact, who gets to do violence?

[Hasan Minhaj]

Correct.

[Hasan Piker]

And who is the recipient of violence is a big part of politics. It's resource distribution. Who gets to have it and who doesn't. Right. And the only way to manage that resource distribution is through violence in the simplest terms. So the reason why I said it gets me into a lot of trouble is because like a big part of what I do also revolves around contextualizing the violence of militancy against imperialism, militancy against state actors. And I think that is what Americans can't stand to hear. Especially I guess, like no matter how white I look, no matter how bro y I look, at least they talk about Intifada glowingly. They support Hamas, a genocidal terrorist group with American blood on their hands. It is a fallacy to pretend, oh.

[Noam Chomsky]

We can't criticize the government of Israel.

[Hasan Minhaj]

That is not the issue here.

[Hasan Piker]

These people know that.

[Hasan Minhaj]

They just lie constantly.

[Hasan Piker]

At least the nickname fits Piker. They hear the name Hasan and they.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Go, oh you, I know that's you.

[Hasan Piker]

You lie.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Where you up bro? Yeah, you should have go by Harry Henry cuz you got a, you got a Henry Cavill.

[Hasan Piker]

Look, I could just, I, I, I thought, yeah, I just been like, my name's Hank. Yeah, I'm from Kansas.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah, you up with the H a s a n. Beautiful name.

[Hasan Piker]

But yeah, my grandfather always used to say like, don't tell people. You're Muslim.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Oh, yeah.

[Hasan Piker]

What are you doing?

[Hasan Minhaj]

What are you doing?

[Hasan Piker]

He's like. Cuz it was like post 9 11. He's like, yeah, because my middle name is D, but it's a, it's a letter that doesn't exist in the English language. It's G. It's a silent G. Yeah. So I, it's, my middle name is.like in official, you know, paperwork. He's like, just use Dogan. Say Dogan Piker. That sounds Irish. Yeah. I could have just been Dogan Piker. Yeah.

[Hasan Minhaj]

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[Hasan Piker]

I mean the, the automatic position. Ironically enough, Turkey is a NATO country. So it's also the most like anti American country, I think like one of the only one of the most anti American countries on the planet. One of the most anti Israel countries on the planet as well. Again, major ally to Israel, major trading partner to Israel, regardless of what Erdogan says. And also a NATO nation that houses American nukes inside of American military bases in. Right. Second largest military in NATO. And yet Turks do not like America. They don't like America intervene intervening in our affairs. And, and they are.

[Hasan Minhaj]

It was. This position was even when you were a kid growing up.

[Hasan Piker]

Oh, for sure.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Got it.

[Hasan Piker]

Well, because I I gre up and 911 happened and then I saw what America did in the insane instability that it caused in the region. And that's why everyone usually that is from that part of the world has almost a monolithic approach to America. We love the culture, you know, rap music and everything else that comes with like Hollywood. But we don't like the government, we don't like the policies, especially policies that pertain to sending, you know, corn fed boys from Iowa down to places that they should not be in to go and do some, some door knocking operations in a Brown family's home.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Did you feel growing up in Turkey and before you came back to study at Rutgers, did you feel like there were two stories happening which was, hey, I'm reading these headlines in the New York Times and then this is what life is like for me growing up in Turkey and these, there's a divide here because I felt that growing up Muslim in the United States, which is why Homeland was such a trip for me, I would watch these shows and I'm like, that's what infiltrating a mosque is like.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Because I, I know what Sunday school kids are like.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah, they're weird.

[Hasan Minhaj]

They're not terrorists.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah.

[Hasan Minhaj]

They're certainly weird.

[Hasan Piker]

The big reveal. The big reveal was that he was. He was doing dua or he was. He was praying on a prayer mat. I was like, spooky.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Ye.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah.

[Hasan Minhaj]

So, like, that. That was always a trip for me, which was. Was seeing that dissonance, being like, I'm. I live in this community, and then I'm seeing the way it's being portrayed, and there's a huge chasm between those two things.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah. Everyone in America thinks, like, we ride camels or something, and it's like, no, that's not a thing. Right. It's just. Well, I guess, like, people's understanding has developed a little bit further beyond that.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Mine's still pretty basic too, which is like, the thing that I feel is so dope about that region is that people can legitimately be like, I'm Ottoman, bro.

[Hasan Piker]

That's. I do say that.

[Hasan Minhaj]

It's just a cool thing to say.

[Hasan Piker]

People get mad.

[Hasan Minhaj]

You know, like, you study Mesopotamia in the sixth grade and you make, like, your little diorama, but to be like, yeah, I'm Sumerian. Yeah, I'm Mesopotamian.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah. 1453. Best year of my life.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah.

[Hasan Piker]

Istanbul, baby. Yeah.

[Hasan Minhaj]

I'm from the Fertile Crescent.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah.

[Hasan Minhaj]

That's just a cool thing to say.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah. Not Constantinople. Yeah.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Versus, like, I'm from Tallahassee. No disrespect, Tyler. I know. Tyler's from Dallas.

[Hasan Piker]

No, it's sick. It is something. It is a sick. That is something that Americans lack. It's actually not dissimilar. I've thought about this quite a bit. Like, American nationalism has a very close similarity to the. To the myth making of. Of Nazi Germany because they had no, like, robust Roman Empire style culture because they were, like, living in fucking mud Huds back then. So I think, like, Adolf Hitler was, like, very jealous of that history, so they would just, like, go and try to find, like, you know, Thor's hammer or something to be like, oh, we're Nordic, actually. Yeah. And I think Americans have to do that too, because it's like such.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Hitler was basically, like, a short king who had, like, a man from.

[Hasan Piker]

I would say he's a manlet, not a short king. Wait, what's that?

[Hasan Minhaj]

What's the definition?

[Hasan Piker]

Manlet?

[Hasan Minhaj]

I don't. I don't even know what that.

[Hasan Piker]

So there's. I say there's short kings and then there's manlets. If you're. If you're like, you know, a short king, you don't care. You're cool.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Got it. Hitler had little man syndrome.

[Hasan Piker]

Yes.

[Hasan Minhaj]

And so he basically had to be like, I'm a Viking. You know that, Right. And everyone's like, you're not.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah. But I think there was like a jealousy of, of, you know, seeing Mussolini down there. And, and Mussolini is just like riding with a Roman empire.

[Hasan Minhaj]

And what's Mussolini? Muslini is like 6, 3.

[Hasan Piker]

I don't even know how tall he was, but he had a fat ass. I know that.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Okay.

[Hasan Piker]

He was like jealous because you need to create like a national myth around like the superiority of your people.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Sure.

[Hasan Piker]

I don't think Americans have that either because it's like, like it's, it's like a made up country that's relatively new with no.

[Hasan Minhaj]

You know, and that's why we have 16 Spider Mans.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah, exactly.

[Hasan Minhaj]

It was like, I don't know what our story is, but we have the Tobey Maguire Spider Man.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Obviously two Andrew Garfield Spider Mans and then we have Tom Holland Spider Man. Well, that's what we have. And by the way, a third of our spider man, actually 2/3 of our spider mans aren't from here.

[Hasan Piker]

That's also true. That's what's interesting is like, I think it was after they Trump assassinated custom Soleimani, Trump was saying like, we'll hit your cultural landmarks, we'll hit your cultural sites, which is terrorists. That's what Trump was like tweeting out terrorism. And the Iranian response was something along the lines of like, we want to hit your cultural landslides, but Americans have none. Like, we can't kill spongebob. You know, like you have not. You have none. And it's kind of true. It's really interesting because like, I mean, I've talked about this and I've gotten again trouble for this as well because I like, I talked about this within the context of Hasan Nasrallah, another Hasan who was assassinated by Israel. He was the leader of Hezbollah in, in Lebanon, the general secretary of Lebanon. And he was a very important figure for Lebanese politics. I mean, he's considered a terrorist by the American State Department. Of course I talked about how like, well read he is because he is like these guys, they wear the beard, they wear the clothes, but like he was an incredibly well read individual who on many occasions had talked about like the, the difference between anti Semitism and anti Zionism. Like even criticizing Arabs for, for thinking like, you know, Israel controls America is like, that's not the case. When we grow up in America, we just like assume automatically that if someone has a big beard and wears like a turban or something that they're like, you know, barbaric.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Sure.

[Hasan Piker]

And that's not like those guys are very well read people. Like, they're.

[Hasan Minhaj]

And a lot of, and a lot of them were educated in the West.

[Hasan Piker]

Yes, exactly. That too, for sure.

[Hasan Minhaj]

So after we finish this, you got to do a stream. What is it like being in constant conversation with the Internet?

[Hasan Piker]

Not great. Probably not good for my brain. But I love what I do. I'm a very stubborn person and I feel like that has been. And my adhd, I guess, has been like a, almost a weapon in this, in this field where it works so perfectly with who I am. Like this, this format where I'm constantly just like hammering the same exact talking points over and over again. Constantly. Like explaining to people if they're, if they're confused about something or even debating people from time to time. I, I personally love it, but it's definitely not for everyone.

[Hasan Minhaj]

I will say, how do you determine the difference between signal and noise? Like, when I look at the chat.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah.

[Hasan Minhaj]

On the right side of the screen, I feel like I'm gonna have a seizure.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah. It's normal. It's a normal feeling to have.

[Hasan Minhaj]

But I feel like you can see the matrix.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah.

[Hasan Minhaj]

And so hat. What are you discerning there?

[Hasan Piker]

I think I'm reading everything, which is really crazy. Like, I see everything, which is not good because.

[Hasan Minhaj]

And then your brain is just like sifting through the recycling.

[Hasan Piker]

I see everything. I don't know how I figured this out, but like, I can go into like almost a free flow state where on the one hand I'm reading an article.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah.

[Hasan Piker]

Or I'm offering commentary on an issue that I've talked about probably a million times at this point. Because the same exact problems that I was talking about 10 years ago in a much more restricted format are the exact same issues that persist. I'm talking about something, I'm explaining something while also simultaneously browsing the chat. And it's like going, going, going. And then I'll pick something and I will deliberately move it into the main stage. We call it like bringing someone into the public square in the chat where I, I will use that as a jump off point to like either use.

[Hasan Minhaj]

It as like, you'll take that comment and you'll put it in the main screen and you're like, yeah, let me, let's just, let's just break this down for a little.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah. And in many instances, the overwhelming majority of the chat is actually offering complimentary information. That correspond to what I'm talking about. People will bring up old things that I've said, or people will bring up old things that whatever individual I'm talking about has said, and then they'll send a link and then I move through that free flow state. But then there are moments where someone is coming in with a sinister reason, where they're coming in to be like, oh, I'm just curious, like, why do you love. Why do you love doing 9 11s? You know, that's. Which is not really.

[Hasan Minhaj]

I don't even know what that means. They're just.

[Hasan Piker]

They're trying to.

[Hasan Minhaj]

They're trying to.

[Hasan Piker]

They're saying that I love 911 and I want to do 9 11s to America.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Okay.

[Hasan Piker]

And I mean, it's just racist, but sometimes you just. Just, you know, I snap and I pick it up and then I yell at that and then you go off a bit. Yeah, okay. And. And there are moments where, like, I think I. I do it specifically so I can, like, shape the community as well. It's almost like. Because it's. It's. It's not a hive mind. There's obviously a lot of diversity of opinion inside of the chat. There's a very wild demographic in there. When I was out in the Bronx with kid Merrill and my buddy brace, there were 17 year olds that were like, oh, my God, I love what you're doing. And then there were like, 57 year olds.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Holy.

[Hasan Piker]

First it was just like, younger people, but I think now they're like parents watch as well, which is wild.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Listen, bro, we got to wrap it up, but I just want to. I. I think about you often.

[Hasan Piker]

Oh, thank you.

[Hasan Minhaj]

You're a brown dude in the media, and I know they try to get you caught up. One of the things where I feel for you as a fellow Hassan. One of my friends, Mehdi Hassan, y' all gotta stay prepared. So we're gonna play a game on this show called condemn or condone.

[Hasan Piker]

Okay, let's do it.

[Hasan Minhaj]

We basically have a paddle. I can have you leave with this, but whenever you engage with the media, it's important that you keep this on hand. Okay.

[Hasan Piker]

Love that.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Just so they know you're one of the good ones.

[Hasan Piker]

Okay. Just let them know what it is. Yeah, well, I did. I did do a version of this.

[Hasan Minhaj]

You have a condemned pad.

[Hasan Piker]

I have not a condemned paddle. But, like, when Russia invaded Ukraine. Yes. Because I'm not exactly fond of NATO, I knew that, like, people were going to immediately say, you're pro Russia. I'M not. So I had this. This. This chiron. Vladimir Putin is bad. And it didn't work. It didn't work. They still clipped me. They still clipped me. And they were like, no, he loves Vladimir Putin. It's like. And it's spinning right above my head. And the same goes for, you know, post October 7th commentary. You got to condemn hummus a million times over before you approach the conversation of the humanity of Palestinians.

[Hasan Minhaj]

That's why I gave you the.

[Hasan Piker]

I'm ready. I'm ready to go.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Here we go. Condemn or condone with Hasan Piker. Let's get it. Condemn or condone Domino's Pizza.

[Hasan Piker]

Oh, is that the camera? Is that my camera? Yeah, I do. Not with Domino's Pizza. I think it's bds, too, but I think his ass.

[Hasan Minhaj]

You didn't. With Domino's even at Rutgers.

[Hasan Piker]

No, the sauce is, like, too sweet. Chemical seasoning. It's not even real seasoning. I. I condemn. Okay, easy. That's an easy one.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Condemn or condone? Luigi Mangione.

[Hasan Piker]

Ooh.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Oh, condone one.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah, he's hot. Okay, that's. That's all. That's the only thing. Nothing else.

[Hasan Minhaj]

The Menendez brothers.

[Hasan Piker]

Oh, damn. You got me. No, I. I don't. I. I condemn. I'm not super familiar with what they did. They, like, killed their parents. Their parents. Right.

[Hasan Minhaj]

But allegedly the parents did.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Sexually abuse them when they were young.

[Hasan Piker]

Okay. I don't know.

[Hasan Minhaj]

That's actually the perfect way to. It's. It is a 50. 50.

[Hasan Piker]

50. It's like that.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Condemn or condone yope. I don't even know what that is. It's a new app, apparently.

[Hasan Piker]

What? Yolp?

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah.

[Hasan Piker]

I don't know. Just condemn it.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Yeah, condemn it.

[Hasan Piker]

No, you know what? It. I'm gonna condone it. I don't know what it is.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Condemn or condone NATO.

[Hasan Piker]

I condemn. All right. I think it's a thorn. It's a. It's a protection racket.

[Hasan Minhaj]

This is a weird Venn diagram between you and Donald Trump.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah, but he's not anti NATO. That's why everyone knows he's like, oh, he's anti NATO. It's like. Like he just got European countries, NATO allies to spend more. A higher percentage of their GDP on American weapons. And now he wants. Trump wants 5%, which is crazy. Like, if a country were to spend 5% of their GDP on American weapons that they're purchasing and they're a social democracy, they're not going to be a social democracy for much longer. They're about to experience American style austerity. They're about to experience what it's like to really be an American with no health care. You can't pay for the health care and the buses if you're paying for the F35s.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Nationalizing the podcast industry.

[Hasan Piker]

Oh, oh, condone 100%.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Oh, no, condemn.

[Hasan Piker]

No, condemn. No, I'm. I'm a big guy. No, we. We need to nationalize it state sanctioned. I'm imagining a world where, you know, we are a part of the Ministry of Propaganda and we're all doing agitated propaganda to talk about how glorious our leader is. That's the future I want to live in, where I'm a minister of Propaganda for United Socialist States of America. Yeah, all right.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Condemn or condone Turkish baths.

[Hasan Piker]

Oh, condone.

[Hasan Minhaj]

They're dope.

[Hasan Piker]

Yeah. Okay. And if you condemn it, you're homophobic. I will not elaborate.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Condemn or condone Mehdi Hussin.

[Hasan Piker]

I condone Mehdi Hussin. He's chill.

[Hasan Minhaj]

He's anything but chill. Condemn or condone banning social media for children under 16.

[Hasan Piker]

Banning social media. Condone for children under 16. Oh, for sure. Or just like, only show them museums or something.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Last one, I gotta prep you. You're gonna have another big national interview. Condemn or condone radical Islamic terrorism?

[Hasan Piker]

I condemn the radical Islamic terrorism.

[Hasan Minhaj]

You had the big NYT profile. You may end up on Fox News pretty quick. So I just wanted to have. Yeah, yeah, I just wanted to.

[Hasan Piker]

No.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Fastball down the middle. Hassan, you're my guy, dude.

[Hasan Piker]

Oh, thank you. This is awesome.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Appreciate you pulling up, man.

[Hasan Piker]

Finally. We did it.

[Hasan Minhaj]

We finally did it.

[Hasan Piker]

Double Hassan.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Thank you, bro.

[Hasan Piker]

Thank you for having me.

[Hasan Minhaj]

Hey, it's me, Hassan. I am here to panhandle. Not for money, for subscribers. Apparently 70% of you guys won't commit to me. You want to kick it and listen weekly, but you can't admit that we like each other. Just admit it. We're vibing. Now, if you're serious about this relationship, hit the follow or subscribe button wherever you watch or listen. And if you don't, well, okay, message received. But just so you know, I will be seeing other audiences. If you haven't subscribed to Lemonada premium yet, now's the perfect time. Because guess what? You can listen completely ad free. Plus you'll unlock exclusive bonus content, like Halle Berry on how to be a good partner during menopause, or Mehdi Hassan on the dumbing down of media clips you won't hear anywhere else. Just tap that subscribe button. On Apple podcasts or head to lemonadapremium.com to subscribe on any other app that's lemonadapremium.com don't miss out.