Graveyard Shift: Psychedelic Demons

Summary

Haunted Cosmos: Graveyard Shift - "Psychedelic Demons"

Episode Date: October 1, 2025
Hosts: Ben Garrett & Brian Sauvé
Guest: Anonymous

---

Episode Overview

This Graveyard Shift episode features an intense, deeply personal story from an anonymous listener about his journey through heavy psychedelic and cannabis use. The episode explores the overlap between the spiritual and material worlds, touching on themes of deception, spiritual warfare, and the unexpected ways God intervenes. The central question: are psychedelic experiences merely psychological, or are they gateways to demonic influences?

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Introduction to the Guest’s Story

• Background:

  • The guest was introduced to psilocybin (magic mushrooms) by a church friend interested in microdosing for "biohacking" and improved work performance.
  • This led to frequent experimentation with both mushrooms and cannabis, including eventually growing mushrooms himself.
  • The guest describes the normalization of microdosing in the tech world as a search for performance enhancement and even spiritual progress.
    • “It was more of a way for me to kind of ... enhance your performance at work, you can think better, be more creative.” (08:31)

• Christian Conflict:

  • Despite deepening substance usage, the guest remained active in church, even consulting his pastor, who compared psychedelics to medicine and gave tacit approval (12:53).
  • He describes convincing himself—and attempting to convince others—that these substances were “gifts from God,” linking Christian concepts (“die to yourself”) to psychedelic terms like “ego death.”
    • “...the whole idea of die to yourself... I associated with ego death.” (13:19)

• Evangelizing Psychedelics:

  • The guest admits he began persuading Christians to try psychedelics for spiritual reasons, later repenting for this after recognizing it as sin and deception.
    • “I actually went to each one of them and repented and I asked for the forgiveness.” (14:05)
    • “A lot of them, a couple guys were like, I knew you were kind of crazy...” (14:12)

---

2. The Vision: A Psychedelic Encounter

• Set & Setting:

  • After taking three grams of mushrooms (and augmenting the effect with strong cannabis), he experienced a powerful altered state—a trance-like separation from his body.
    • “It was more than double as far as, like, I was out... The best way to explain it is it felt like I was detached from my body and I kind of drifted into a trance.” (16:03)

• Vision Details:

  • Envisioned underground tunnels leading to a massive blue-lit void, feeling profound peace and "bliss" (17:14).
  • An entity (with a blue glow) attempted to lead him further into the void, but could not touch him—his consent was required.
    • “This thing appeared to have a mission to take me deeper... It felt like two entities. It felt like the entity in front of me was drawing me in toward another entity.” (18:36)
    • “I had to make a decision to follow.” (21:46)

• Confrontation and Revelation:

  • As he fixated on the shed door where he often smoked, he perceived words he’d previously burned into the wood: “Soli Deo Gloria” and a cross.
    • “The words were Soli deo gloria that I had burned into the door over months. And the shape was a cross, actually.” (22:41)
  • Realizing the experience was a “cheap counterfeit” rather than God, he rejected the entity by internally invoking Christ’s name and recalling the cross:
    • “I said, wait, this isn't God. This is a cheap counterfeit. And then I told it, like, you're not the one that died on that cross... The glory is not yours.” (23:38)
    • The vision immediately dissipated, confirming for him its demonic nature:
    • “The moment I thought his name is when everything went away. ...That was demonic.” (24:31, 25:00)

---

3. Aftermath and Spiritual Clarity

• Breaking Away:
  • Inspired by an earlier Haunted Cosmos episode on psychedelics, he quit all drug use "cold turkey," despite withdrawal agony.
    • “So I quit, like taking any kind... I quit cold turkey, like from one day to another, which was absolutely miserable from listening to the episode and being convicted that I had been sinning against God.” (26:49)
  • He describes the spiritual lesson:
    • “I was literally cheating on God with the idea of different entities. I'm still God's though. And so at that point it's like, okay, now it's up to you...” (26:49)
  • Repercussions included total disruption of family and work life—his wife thought she might "have to get a different husband," and he describes being emotionally and spiritually hollow (40:17).

---

4. Spiritual Implications and Reflections

• Agency & Temptation:

  • Hosts draw parallels to demonology folklore, emphasizing that evil entities require consent—"inviting" moments are needed (“vampire can’t cross the threshold”), spiritual sovereignty remains with the person.
    • “There's still a kind of permission... they're trying to be invited in... A lot of demonic phenomenon is aiming to persuade, deceive a person into saying, I want this.” (31:23–32:38)

• True Peace vs. Counterfeit Experiences:

  • The guest insists, “God's peace isn't cheap. It's not like, take this pill and you'll experience peace.” (36:23)
  • Hosts note that Christ’s sacrifice yields genuine peace and flourishing for others, contrasting starkly with the “ego death” of psychedelics, which is self-centered and leaves others deprived.
    • “The ego death is... totally self-centric. It serves you 100% right. But nobody else...” (39:03)
    • “When Christ died to himself, it benefited the world. ...When a Christian man dies to himself, it actually leads to the flourishing and good of his wife and children and community at large.” (40:00, Ben)

• Obedience and Sanctification:

  • The conversation concludes with reflections on true sanctification, obedience, and the humility required to trust God versus seeking shortcuts to peace or spiritual experiences.
    • “True peace is not found away from reality, but... is found in accepting the condition in which God has placed us.” (41:06)
    • Parallels are drawn to Paralandra and the necessity of obedience even when one does not understand. (49:44)

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Anonymous Guest on Deception in Psychedelic Spirituality:

  • "I believed. I was convinced that this was from God." (13:18)
  • "The whole idea of die to yourself... I associated with ego death." (13:19)
  • “This isn't God. This is a cheap counterfeit. ...The moment I thought his name [Jesus] is when everything went away.” (23:38–25:00)

• On the Necessity of Consent to Evil:

  • Brian: "There's still a kind of sovereignty of a person. ...It's a limit that I think God places. No, you have to want this. I can't just drag you in." (33:29–34:19)

• On the Dangers and False Promises of Psychedelics:

  • "God's peace isn't cheap. It's not like, take this pill and you'll experience peace." (36:23)
  • “Psychedelics are not for Christians to use... I still have Christian friends that are like, no, I think, you know, there's medicinal... I'm like, no, there isn't.” (37:39)

• On the Consequences for Family:

  • Ben: "You're supposed to love your family the way that Christ loves the church... The ego death is... totally self-centric. It serves you 100% right. But nobody else. ...And the relief that you got gave them actually less relief." (39:03)
  • Anonymous Guest: "She at one point said, I was just waiting to figure out if I was gonna have to get a different husband. Like, I thought you were gonna die." (40:17)

• Final Reflections on Obedience:

  • "True peace is not found away from reality, but... is found in accepting the condition in which God has placed us. And that is essentially what led to true contentment." (41:06)
  • “Obey with delight.” (50:18, Ben)

---

Key Timestamps

• 00:09 – Introduction to the episode; guest’s story of psychedelic use previewed.
• 08:31–14:12 – Guest details entry into microdosing, escalation, and spiritual rationalization.
• 16:03–23:38 – The central psychedelic "vision" experience and realization.
• 25:00–27:10 – Immediate spiritual aftermath, repentance, and quitting drugs.
• 31:23–34:19 – Deep dive into boundaries of demonic influence and the importance of consent.
• 36:23–41:06 – Contrasting worlds: counterfeit peace vs. the costly, real peace of Christ; consequences in family life.
• 49:44–51:29 – Reflections on obedience, wisdom, and the futility of shortcuts to spiritual growth.

---

Conclusion

This episode offers a raw, unvarnished testimony of psychedelic entrapment, self-deception, and spiritual confrontation, culminating in deliverance through Christ. The story is both cautionary and hopeful—underscoring that what masquerades as spiritual insight can be a "cheap counterfeit" seeking one’s ruin, but also that God’s faithfulness and grace can and will break through the deepest delusion.

Final advice from the guest:

“Don’t do cannabis." (44:55)

Key assurance from the hosts:

"He’ll move, literally move heaven and earth to save even the single lamb that goes astray.” (46:37, Ben)

---

For Listeners:

Whether you are wrestling with similar temptations or doubts, this episode acts both as a warning and a promise—of real spiritual danger, but also of the unsearchable faithfulness of God to deliver his own.

---

Haunted Cosmos Patreon: [Details provided in closing comments]
Relevant Past Episodes: “Psychedelics,” “Giants,” “Hat Man” (referenced by guest)

Transcript

[Sponsor Announcer]

This episode is brought to you by Zilli Creative Works, bringing you face to face family fun that is fierce, fast and affordable.

[Ben]

In this episode of the Graveyard Shift, we hear from an anonymous listener who has a very fascinating story about psychedelic use and quitting psychedelics.

[Anonymous Guest]

And then it went all the way up to what they call a hero's dose. You can experience ego death, which means you lose the concept of yourself. Ego, right, yeah. Of yourself. It kept trying to lure me further in, further in. And the more I kept looking at this door, the more it kept insist. I was like, wait a minute, I think I can read what the words are on the door. The, the words were the ego death.

[Ben]

It's centric. It's like totally self centric. It serves you 100% right. But nobody else.

[Brian Sauvay]

Like you knew it was spiritual. You knew there was some spiritual element, but you were filtering it through and saying, you know, I'm accessing God. This is to God's glory.

[Ben]

Hey everybody. Welcome to this episode of the Graveyard Shift with Haunted Cosmos, a special new interview style show that we're doing in the off season where we bring in people to the studio or have them call into the studio and tell us their craziest paranormal or high strangeness story today. I am joined of course by my co host, Brian Sauvay. Brian, say hello.

[Brian Sauvay]

Dude, it is so good to be here. Graveyard shifting it with you guys.

[Ben]

It's so late.

[Brian Sauvay]

It is so late.

[Ben]

It's so moody.

[Brian Sauvay]

The fire's crackling.

[Ben]

It's actually 8:57am the mood is set. The mood is set.

[Brian Sauvay]

I think you know what we mean. I think you understand the implication.

[Ben]

Yeah. We tried to emphasize moodiness in this set. We also are joined by a very special guest who will remain nameless because he wishes to be anonymous as he tells the story. So everyone please give a warm welcome to Anonymous.

[Anonymous Guest]

Hi everybody.

[Ben]

Well done, man.

[Brian Sauvay]

It is so good to respect your anonymity, which is I would like to begin respecting by saying that Anonymous Social Security number is 175-392-8734 and he's from the state of Colorado.

[Co-host or Additional Guest]

Yes. Yeah.

[Ben]

And I would also like. We actually have a fourth very special guest. Brian's favorite special guest of the show and his name is Hugh Jackman.

[Anonymous Guest]

No Hugh.

[Ben]

No Hugh. Please say hello.

[Brian Sauvay]

Absolutely.

[Ben]

Hello.

[Brian Sauvay]

We need to cut this out. We need to cut it out. It cannot make the show. 8:50am Everybody stop listening. Everybody has stopped listening.

[Co-host or Additional Guest]

Okay.

[Brian Sauvay]

Anyway, I'll never look at Anonymous. Anonymous guest here. How long you been listening To Haunted Cosmos.

[Anonymous Guest]

Honestly, since season one.

[Ben]

Oh, we got. I'm an og, dude.

[Co-host or Additional Guest]

We got a life.

[Anonymous Guest]

No, it was. It. When. When did the Psychedelics episode. That was season two, right?

[Brian Sauvay]

Psychedelics was season.

[Ben]

Episode 10 of season two.

[Co-host or Additional Guest]

Yeah.

[Ben]

We started the show in March of 2022, so it would have been sometime in 2023.

[Anonymous Guest]

2022?

[Co-host or Additional Guest]

Yeah.

[Anonymous Guest]

Okay.

[Ben]

Like, early 2023.

[Anonymous Guest]

So I think I started listening. Like, there were maybe only three episodes.

[Co-host or Additional Guest]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Anonymous Guest]

When I started listening.

[Ben]

Really?

[Anonymous Guest]

Yeah.

[Ben]

Man, that's nuts. That's nuts. What's your. Is your favorite, the psychedelics one?

[Anonymous Guest]

Well, it's one of my favorites.

[Co-host or Additional Guest]

Yeah.

[Anonymous Guest]

But I think. I don't know. I think Giants was one of my. Because that one was more like, wait, this is actually real? Yeah, like, they're like, giants actually real.

[Brian Sauvay]

Everybody knows it.

[Anonymous Guest]

Yeah, well, now everyone should know that.

[Co-host or Additional Guest]

Now they do.

[Anonymous Guest]

But I thought they were. I thought they were fake until that episode. And I remember hearing, like, pastors talk about Genesis 6. It's like, no, they're not real. It's. It's all like a metaphor.

[Co-host or Additional Guest]

Yeah.

[Anonymous Guest]

No, it's actually not.

[Brian Sauvay]

Giants are really just people who were 5 foot 11.

[Ben]

But they were bad.

[Brian Sauvay]

But they were bad.

[Ben]

They were sinful.

[Anonymous Guest]

Now, I think giants. Well, the Hat man, that one really screwed me up.

[Ben]

They were sinful.

[Anonymous Guest]

Oh, they were sinful.

[Ben]

Published work. Sorry.

[Anonymous Guest]

No, Hatman, that one was really good.

[Ben]

Yeah, that was crazy. Hatman. Hatman was one of the ones that we. That was the first one that we got some negative feedback.

[Brian Sauvay]

People were like, wait, really?

[Ben]

Well, yeah, because we didn't really warn anyone about, like, how creepy the subject was. Yeah, we just kind of went into it, and some folks had their little kids listening, and then they all of a sudden, a little kid start seeing the Hat Man.

[Brian Sauvay]

That didn't happen.

[Anonymous Guest]

Okay.

[Brian Sauvay]

I mean, I didn't.

[Ben]

Now, let me. What kind of, like, drew you to the subject matter? Why. Why were you interested in this type of thing?

[Anonymous Guest]

I mean, that. That time of my life, I was kind of. I don't know, trying to get answers. I was deep in, like, the tech world, where there's a lot of deception. And I. I've always been a Christian, Right. I grew up Christian, but I started to question a lot of that kind of stuff, like, is this real? Is it, like, you know, is Christianity real? And. And I essentially became so modernized that I wanted. I was looking for something that would take me back to older truths, and that's how I came across Haunted Cosmos.

[Co-host or Additional Guest]

Nice.

[Ben]

Older truths.

[Brian Sauvay]

I think it's time. Yeah, you got a great story for us to tell firsthand and take us in. We'll try not to interrupt you.

[Ben]

Yeah, first one, let me just explain to the audience. What we're going to do is let the anonymous guest tell his story pretty much from start to finish and we are going to do our very, very best to not interrupt him at all. And then after that we'll kind of get into it, ask some questions and hopefully have a good discussion.

[Sponsor Announcer]

Escape Master is a fast paced fantasy card game that your family game night needs. Think of Speed or Dutch Blitz mixed with deep fantasy lore, battle strategies and character building. Made by a Christian husband and wife duo with the goal to bring your family together. It's portable for on the go play, family friendly and wildly fun. Order now@zilli creativeworks.com and get 10% off with code zcosmos all lowercase. That's zillycreativeworks.com with code zcosmos.

[Ben]

How many demons, ghosts or vampires are lurking in your investment portfolio? If you're invested in the S&P 500, it's probably more than you think since it's full of companies that actively oppose your faith. Stonecrop Wealth Advisors is here to help Their faith based portfolios redirect your hard earned dollars away from destructive agendas and into companies making a positive impact on society. Get the demons out of your portfolio and invest in God's kingdom while you grow your wealth. Contact Stonecrop Wealth Advisors today by visiting StoneCropAdvisors.com Haunted Cosmos investment advisory services offered through StoneCrop Wealth Advisors LLC, a registered investment advisor with the U.S. securities and Exchange Commission.

[Brian Sauvay]

The nighttime is crawling with dangerous creatures. Bigfoot, Sleep paralysis demons, the Mothman. Now imagine what would make them even more terrifying. That's right.

[Ben]

Guns.

[Brian Sauvay]

Cryptids with guns. That's where Armored Republic comes in. They equip law abiding citizens to stand against the unthinkable. Even if it's a gun wielding devil worshiping Bigfoot. From combat tested coatings to high performance carriers, every piece of their ballistic armor and tactical gear is built to protect. Visit armoredrepublic.com or text join all caps join to 88027 to get involved in the preparedness effort. Man Ben, I knew we were handsome. But I didn't know we were that handsome until I saw our recent Haunted Cosmos thumbnails.

[Ben]

Yeah, your skin looks so velvety smooth.

[Brian Sauvay]

I mean it's unbelievable. Chris at New Dominion Design Company did an absolutely fantastic job not only on those thumbnails but on our recent book cover as well.

[Ben]

Yeah, exactly. And if you need some design work from Chris, you should go to newdominiondesignco.com, get started there. And he'll serve you right, man.

[Brian Sauvay]

He will make you look 50% as handsome as Ben, guaranteed.

[Anonymous Guest]

I'm gonna set this scene just to kind of give a little bit of, of context, but everything started with a friend that I went to church with that introduced me to psychedelics, specifically psilocybin mushrooms. And he asked me one time, you know, if I ever tried microdosing. And I had no idea what that even meant. I'm like, no. So he gave me a few half gram capsules of psilocybin mushrooms. So essentially they're ground up, they're put into capsules. And it was more of a way for me to kind of what he was doing it for was this idea of biohacking. You know, you can enhance your performance at work, you can think better, be more creative. And having been sort of in the tech world, eventually I found out that a lot of people were doing this. It was actually normal for a lot of people to, to, to microdose. And so, you know, I tried it a couple of times. It was kind of mild, it was nothing crazy. And in sort of this pursuit of like biohacking, you know, I had, I had tried a bunch of stuff in this one kind of seemed to be the one that didn't like, it was like, it was not an amphetamine, where, like it got you what wired up. It wasn't cannabis either, where kind of, it was too, too much of a downer. It was sort of in between. Right. So I slowly began to, you know, try multiple things, including this microdosing thing. At the time, I had also kind of experimented a lot with cannabis. Cannabis use in multiple ways. Like, I'm talking wax, flour, like edibles, every.

[Ben]

I've never even heard of half of these.

[Anonymous Guest]

It's all the different ways that you can essentially ingest cannabis. And so I was already kind of dependent on it. Like, it got to the point where I couldn't operate unless I smoked. And, and then you, you know, you throw in the microdosing thing. On top of that, I eventually got connected with somebody that hooked me up with essentially like a tincture of. What do you call it? It's like an extract that they make themselves with psilocybin mushrooms. I started doing that almost all the time. Then it just kind of like the ex. It wasn't a crazy experience. It was More like, oh, I can think a little bit more openly, but in reality, it was an illusion, probably. And then I was like, I need to try more. So I did. That was like, you know, was doing about a gram max. So then I tried to. And then three, and then it went all the way up to what they call a hero's dose, which is five grams of mushrooms. That is what they call, like, ego death. You can experience ego death, which means you lose the concept of yourself. Ego.

[Co-host or Additional Guest]

Right. Yeah.

[Anonymous Guest]

Of yourself. You have no idea what's going on. You don't know where you are, really. The crazy thing is I never really experienced that. It was more like I would get stuck in thoughts, and then I would pursue one thought and go as deep as I could and then go to another one. And I would do that for hours. When I did these 5 gram or more doses, and I only did it, like, three times. It wasn't like something I frequented. And that was over about a year. Well, the. Where it gets kind of crazy is, you know, I talked about the mixture of cannabis and psilocybin mushrooms. So one Saturday, after I had done a bunch of yard work, I was like, I'm done. I'm going to chill. So I took three grams, which is supposed to chill you, but not, like, really give you a lot of psychedelic effects. At this point, I actually had grown my own mushrooms. Figure out how to do it. It's legal, by the way, to grow. It's technically legal to have the spores. And you can actually, like, do everything up to the point that they grow.

[Brian Sauvay]

So this was, like, how you went deep? Deep, Deep.

[Anonymous Guest]

I was deep.

[Brian Sauvay]

How long did it take you from, like, trying it to. You're literally producing your own psychedelic drugs in your domicile.

[Anonymous Guest]

About, like, nine months.

[Brian Sauvay]

Dude. That is great. And you're Christian the whole time, like, going to church.

[Anonymous Guest]

Going to church. I talked at the time, I talked to my pastor, and I said, hey, I'm doing this. What do you think his answer was? Well, it's just like medicine. You should be fine.

[Ben]

I see.

[Anonymous Guest]

Yeah. And so not only did I have a bad pastor at the time, it. It started with just like, I'm trying something quick. And I believed. I was convinced that this was from God.

[Co-host or Additional Guest]

Wow. Okay.

[Ben]

Like a gift.

[Anonymous Guest]

Like a gift.

[Co-host or Additional Guest]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Anonymous Guest]

In fact, this is so sad now, thinking back, but the whole idea of die to yourself.

[Co-host or Additional Guest]

Oh, yeah.

[Anonymous Guest]

I associated with ego death.

[Co-host or Additional Guest]

Wow.

[Brian Sauvay]

Okay.

[Anonymous Guest]

And it was like. I mean, I'm telling you this deceptive stuff.

[Co-host or Additional Guest]

Yeah, yeah.

[Anonymous Guest]

And I eventually, you know, Got a group of Christian friends that. I'm like, hey, what do you think of this? And I. A lot of those guys had tried, but they're like, no, I only did it for fun. And I'm like, no. Did you know you can actually grow, like, in your faith if you do this crap?

[Brian Sauvay]

You were like, evangelizing psychedelic mushrooms.

[Ben]

Are you an alien?

[Anonymous Guest]

No, no. Yes. It got to the point where I was getting Christians to, like, that had never tried to try.

[Co-host or Additional Guest]

Yeah.

[Anonymous Guest]

Once I was convinced that this was sinful, I actually went to each one of them and repented and I asked for the forgiveness.

[Ben]

Praise God.

[Anonymous Guest]

I told him, dude, I'm really, really sorry. And a lot of them, a couple guys were like, I knew you were kind of crazy. Like, yeah, like, I, I, you know, I threw away the stuff you gave me. I'm like, thank God. Some other guys were like, oh, I thought this was, like, really good for me. Like, it helped me, you know. Anyway, this is where, like, that just kind of gives you context, right, of how deep I was into this stuff, how I believed it was from God, including the. The cannabis. I'm like, you know, at the time, I told my wife, I'm probably going to just always, for the rest of my life, smoke cannabis because I can't survive without it. Like, I can't think. I kind of go into spiral mode. And thank God that's no longer the case. But so, you know, I. Back to the story. I had done yard work around the house, and I took 3 grams. Then nothing was happening. Like, I'm like, okay, Normally, you know, 30 minutes and you feel something, you get the wave is what they call it. Like, everything you're looking at kind of moves like a wave. And none of that. I was like, whatever, I'm going to go smoke. So I went and smoked, like, two bowls of, like, modern cannabis is bred to. To be stronger, like, significantly stronger than it was even 10 years ago. Anyway, I'm not even done with the second one. And things just kind of hit. I had gone into. I had this little shed. I went into the shed. That's where I smoked and started to do my thing. For some reason, the cannabis really augmented the psilocybin effect, like, exponentially to the point that the 3 milligrams that I did feels stronger than 6 that I had done before.

[Co-host or Additional Guest]

Wow.

[Ben]

Dang.

[Anonymous Guest]

So it was more than double as far as, like, I was out.

[Ben]

Like, perceived effect.

[Anonymous Guest]

Yeah, the perceived effect. And. But what I mean by out is I wasn't fully there. Like, in My body. Since, like, the best way to explain it is it felt like I was detached from my body and I kind of drifted into a trance. It was really weird. I don't know how long it lasted. I think it felt like, you know, you go to bed, you wake up, and you don't know how much time has passed. That's kind of what it felt like. I suddenly was like in a dark tunnel. This is the craziest part to me, because I have never seen this in movies or anything like that that I can think of. It was a dark tunnel underground that led to a much bigger void. Like a huge void, like, filled with an incredibly massive, bright blue light. And there's something about the blue light that I'll get back to. But imagine like a 120 floor building, like a massive skyscraper. Like, that's how deep this hole was underground. And it was really deep underground because in my mind I remember trying to kind of see, you know, like, is there a light anywhere? Couldn't see anything. It was absolutely huge. And the tunnel I was in was just one of hundreds that essentially led to this massive void. So imagine just like a big hole underground and a bunch of tunnels that led to that big hole where they came from, I don't know, but that's how it looked like. And it was at that moment that everything just kind of felt peaceful. It was really weird. It felt peaceful, bliss. Like, it. I don't really know how to explain it, but every ounce of concern, worry, anxiety that I probably had leading to the experience, gone. Like, completely gone. Then I. I noticed something. Someone sort of trying to hold my hand, like in front of me. And it felt like it wanted to lead me further into this tunnel, into the massive blue light. And then I remember looking at my own arm and it was also glowing blue. And there was this blue hue to everything. Now this is all in my head, right? Like, I'm literally just staring at a wall and, like my body was actually staring at a wall.

[Co-host or Additional Guest]

Yeah.

[Anonymous Guest]

And this thing appeared to have a mission to take me deeper and deeper into this massive void, toward this big blue light. And it felt like two entities. It felt like the entity in front of me was drawing me in toward another entity. You know when you can tell, like, you're about to go see somebody and someone's driving you there? Like when you're in a Uber.

[Co-host or Additional Guest]

Yeah.

[Anonymous Guest]

And the Uber, you know, the Uber driver is an entity as a person in the destination where you're going, that's another person. That feeling.

[Ben]

So, like the blue light was an entity, or there was just the blue.

[Anonymous Guest]

Light was an entity. Yeah, that's what it felt like. Like, it felt like that thing was waiting for me.

[Co-host or Additional Guest]

Right.

[Anonymous Guest]

I didn't hear any voices, sounds, nothing. Just peace. Really, really calm. At that moment, I. I wonder, well, am I experiencing an angel? And I'm. And I'm being taken to the presence of God.

[Co-host or Additional Guest]

Wow.

[Anonymous Guest]

Keep in mind I was deceived. I believed that the stuff I was doing was a good thing.

[Co-host or Additional Guest]

Yeah.

[Brian Sauvay]

Wow.

[Anonymous Guest]

So. And I'm like. I'm, like, excited at this point. I'm about to meet God. I'm like, wait, am I dead? Like, what is this? What. What's. What's going on?

[Brian Sauvay]

That's crazy.

[Anonymous Guest]

And it was as though my spirit was no longer in my body at that point, but, like, somewhere else. Then I remember. Like, keep in mind, this is like, there's no, like, sense of time. So it. I could have said it felt like two minutes or two hours. I really don't know. But then I looked over to my right, like, my carnal body. I look over to the right toward the door of the shed that I was in. Remember, this was a shed that I would go to to smoke. That was like my little smoke shed. And I would go there multiple times a day at my worst, you know, when I was just so dependent on cannabis. And sometime, sometimes even in the middle of the night, like, I would wake up at 2am unable to sleep, then I would just go out. Even if it was snowing, raining, it didn't matter. That's how bad this was. And every time I would go in there, I. You know, I would smoke and wait till the effects kind of came on and then just go to sleep or go to work, whatever I needed to do. And every time I would take, like, my torchlighter that I would use to light up the canvas with, and I would just, like, start drawing shapes on the. On the door, like, burn into it because it was. It was a wooden door. And it was kind of what I did while I waited to get high, essentially. Then this thing, as it tried to lure me in, like, deeper into this void, into this tunnel, was like. It was like I was turning on a switch between seeing this thing trying to pull me. And by the way, this thing never touched me.

[Co-host or Additional Guest]

Okay.

[Anonymous Guest]

It never touched my hand. It was trying to, and it was signaling at me. I could see this.

[Brian Sauvay]

He was trying to hold your hand.

[Anonymous Guest]

At one point, it was trying to, but I never did. It never actually touched me. It was all 100% left up to me.

[Brian Sauvay]

Interesting. But you had to take the final.

[Anonymous Guest]

I had to make a decision to follow.

[Brian Sauvay]

Interesting.

[Anonymous Guest]

And. And I was hesitant. I remember, to just kind of, you know, as I was kind of walking toward this void through this tunnel. Then at one point, I just kind of kept looking at the door, and I felt like something, you know, in my own carnal body was kept. Kept looking at this door and trying to figure out, what are these shapes? What does it say? Because, remember, I wasn't fully in my mind.

[Co-host or Additional Guest]

Right? Yeah.

[Anonymous Guest]

So it. It's just. It kept trying to, like, lure me further and further, and the more I kept looking at the store, the more it kept insisting.

[Co-host or Additional Guest]

Wow.

[Anonymous Guest]

Like, it was almost like, you know, when somebody tells you, let's go.

[Co-host or Additional Guest]

Right?

[Anonymous Guest]

And it's kind of like, hey, we should go in a minute, versus, like, let's go. Let's go. We have to go now.

[Co-host or Additional Guest]

Yeah.

[Anonymous Guest]

Yeah. It got to this point where I was almost frustrated that I wasn't paying attention to it. And somehow I kept looking at the door. Then I was like, wait a minute. I think I can read what the words are on the door and what the shape above it is. The words were Soli deo gloria that I had burned into the door over months. And the shape was across, actually.

[Ben]

Or in the vision.

[Anonymous Guest]

No, I had burned this into the door over months.

[Co-host or Additional Guest]

Okay.

[Anonymous Guest]

So I. I rode soli dale Gloria.

[Co-host or Additional Guest]

Yeah.

[Anonymous Guest]

On the door. Like, I burnt it into the door.

[Brian Sauvay]

I got along.

[Anonymous Guest]

Yep. Glory to God alone. Yeah. Thank you. And I had just drawn, like, a cross at the very top, and then, you know, it was all kind of in a circle, and there were little, like, things that I had burnt into it. But that was, like, the thing.

[Co-host or Additional Guest]

Yeah.

[Anonymous Guest]

And at that moment, I was like, wait, I need. This is. This isn't right. So I remember pausing sort of spiritually. Like, my. Think of. I'm thinking of myself as two. Two, like, two beings, right. Like, there's my spirit. There's my body. My body kept looking at the door. My spirit was trying to keep walking. But at this point, it goes, wait. So I paused 100%. And then everything happened really quickly. But in that moment, I said, wait, this isn't God. This is a cheap counterfeit. And then I told it, like, you're not the one that died on that cross. That was that. That I had burned into the door or what it signified. And the glory is not yours being glory to God alone. Solido gloria. And just as quickly as I kind of fell into the Trance, Everything went away.

[Co-host or Additional Guest]

Wow.

[Anonymous Guest]

And I kept in my mind, I was like, wait, no, I want to experience that again almost immediately.

[Brian Sauvay]

Interesting.

[Anonymous Guest]

But. But it's like, no. I sort of found an anchor in my believing in God, in experiencing the true God versus this cheap counterfeit. And the moment I realized that that was, that's where Jesus died. Like the cross. The moment I thought his name is when everything went away.

[Co-host or Additional Guest]

Wow.

[Anonymous Guest]

And that's when I knew that was demonic.

[Brian Sauvay]

It was not. That was not God.

[Anonymous Guest]

That was not God.

[Brian Sauvay]

Please, at the name of Christ.

[Anonymous Guest]

Correct.

[Co-host or Additional Guest]

Yeah.

[Anonymous Guest]

And it, from that point on I was like, this is, this is crazy. Like it, there's, there's something real about this and there's something like. I try. I spent hours just thinking about what, what did I just experience? Like over, over a couple of weeks. What the result of that in what, by the way, what finally kind of sealed the deal for me was your episode on psychedelics.

[Co-host or Additional Guest]

Wow.

[Anonymous Guest]

Because I remember at the time being like, I wish I could. I don't, I don't feel comfortable with what I'm hearing from my current pastor. Seems cheap, if that makes sense. It doesn't seem genuine. It doesn't seem like it's the real answer. And then I heard that episode and I was like, I have to be done. So I quit, like taking any kind. And by the way, like the psychedelic thing I had done just cannabis, psilocybin, mushrooms and lsd. Surprisingly, LSD is much more calmer than psilocybin. I never did anything harder than that. There's dmt, there's five meal dmt, there's salvia, there's all these other things. Never did anything like that. I just kind of did the lifestyle, you know, LSD and the lifestyle, kind of psilocybin and of course all the cannabis. Well, I quit cold turkey, like from one day to another, which was absolutely miserable from listening to the episode, after listening to the episode and being convicted that I had been sinning against God.

[Co-host or Additional Guest]

Yeah.

[Anonymous Guest]

I was literally cheating on God with the idea of different entities. I'm still God's though. And so at that point it's like, okay, now it's up to you to. You can keep flirting with this stuff or you can just cut it and be done with it.

[Co-host or Additional Guest]

Yeah.

[Anonymous Guest]

So I, I never took any more psychedelics and, and I never smoked marijuana ever again. And in one, like, there was one year where like, things just weren't great for me and that's when I smoked the most marijuana. Yeah, I smoked a pound in a Year of marijuana.

[Brian Sauvay]

I have no context for this, but.

[Ben]

That sounds like a lot. It sounds like a lot.

[Anonymous Guest]

It's like rapper.

[Ben]

It's like, like, like two chains.

[Anonymous Guest]

Like two chains. What's the. The dog wrapper?

[Brian Sauvay]

Snoop Dogg.

[Anonymous Guest]

Snoop Dogg, Snoop Lion. They're Dog rapper. Dog rapper. That dude, like, I just think of him because he's like constantly stupid stoned.

[Ben]

Yeah.

[Anonymous Guest]

And some of those guys don't smoke a pound in a year. It's just a lot.

[Co-host or Additional Guest]

A lot.

[Brian Sauvay]

Yeah.

[Co-host or Additional Guest]

Yeah.

[Brian Sauvay]

You were deep.

[Anonymous Guest]

I was deep.

[Brian Sauvay]

Deep, Deep, deep, deep.

[Anonymous Guest]

And.

[Co-host or Additional Guest]

Yeah.

[Anonymous Guest]

That. I thought it was. Okay. I thought it was from God. I thought it was a gift. And. But after that experience and then after listening to your episode and then seeing, like cultures that engage in psychedelics end up doing this, this, this and that.

[Co-host or Additional Guest]

Yeah.

[Anonymous Guest]

And I was like, serpent worship. Child.

[Brian Sauvay]

Human sacrifice. Child sacrifice and psychedelic drugs all go together.

[Anonymous Guest]

Yeah.

[Brian Sauvay]

Again, that Lewis Ungut book, the Return of the Dragon.

[Co-host or Additional Guest]

Yeah.

[Anonymous Guest]

Correct. Yep. And I remember just hearing that and being like, yeah, that is not what I'm after.

[Brian Sauvay]

It's interesting to see the progression for you because it was like. And it's, you know, you, you made this. We've talked about this before, but the, the tech world has this biohacking kind of micro dosing culture where they're big into psychedelics and they're big into kind of, you know, trying to optimize the human form for creativity and tech work and all this kind of like transcending to another plane. But it's interesting to see how for you, that went from a biohacking thing to. You knew it was spiritual. You knew there was some spiritual element, but you were filtering it through and saying, oh, but this is act. You know, I'm accessing God. This is to God's glory.

[Anonymous Guest]

Yes.

[Brian Sauvay]

How the deception worked.

[Ben]

Look at the.

[Co-host or Additional Guest]

Yeah.

[Ben]

Like, look at the fruit. I'm dying to myself.

[Brian Sauvay]

Oh, look at ego. Death is like dying to yourself.

[Co-host or Additional Guest]

Yeah.

[Brian Sauvay]

When it's just absolutely not for the listeners. That's.

[Anonymous Guest]

It's false.

[Co-host or Additional Guest]

Yeah.

[Brian Sauvay]

It's not actually what that passage is about.

[Anonymous Guest]

No. It. And it, it first started with this, like, I didn't gain this understanding of, you know, the carnal and the spiritual sort of being like so close together.

[Co-host or Additional Guest]

Yeah.

[Anonymous Guest]

Until Haunted Cosmos, like that opened my eyes to that. Before I started doing psychedelics. In my mind it was more like, I'm enhancing the flesh, but I'm not even touching the spirit.

[Brian Sauvay]

Interesting.

[Co-host or Additional Guest]

Yeah.

[Anonymous Guest]

Right. And that's actually where the slippery slope begins.

[Co-host or Additional Guest]

Yep.

[Anonymous Guest]

Because that's when you Go, oh, I'm just going to think more clearly. I'm going to do a better job for God's glory. Like I'm telling you, it's so foolish to believe that I'm going to do this for God's glory. It's like I'm going to go murder somebody for God's glory. And murder is murder.

[Brian Sauvay]

Murder doesn't touch the spirit.

[Anonymous Guest]

Yeah.

[Brian Sauvay]

Just in the flesh. To Hitman, I'm just my day job.

[Co-host or Additional Guest]

Correct.

[Anonymous Guest]

Like, that's how I saw it. And so it wasn't until that experience. And you know how I mentioned the whole blue thing?

[Co-host or Additional Guest]

Yeah, yeah.

[Anonymous Guest]

I don't know what it is, but I started thinking about references about blue things like the Aladdin genie is blue. The way that angels or supernatural light is normally portrayed on, like, movies tends to be blue a different time. Prior to me having that experience, I was going to bed and all of a sudden I went into a trance too. Nothing crazy, but I just saw myself, like in bed, glowing blue.

[Co-host or Additional Guest]

Wow.

[Anonymous Guest]

So that I don't, you know, there's. There's something to that. But it was like really bright white light with this surrounding hue, blue around. But. And by the way, that was only the entities that did that.

[Brian Sauvay]

Interesting.

[Anonymous Guest]

The actual room or the actual tunnel was not blue. It was like just a regular underground cave.

[Co-host or Additional Guest]

Right.

[Anonymous Guest]

But it was only the entities that were glowing blue.

[Brian Sauvay]

The entities were another element that's interesting to me that I think proves out a lot of what we've talked about on the show. Well, first of all, I'm thankful to hear that that episode was helpful.

[Co-host or Additional Guest]

Yeah.

[Ben]

Praise God.

[Brian Sauvay]

You know, like, that's one of the reasons we set out to make this show is like, in a materialist world, people are very vulnerable to the schemes of immaterial, satanic, demonic, spiritual beings. They're not equipped because they don't think they're real. And so. And I'm not saying that was your case, but it leaves people very prone to deception. It's interesting to see the doorways that can come through. But what was interesting to me that confirms what we see in a lot of different phenomena is this concept of there's still a kind of sovereignty of a person. There's still a kind of permission, a willing 100% where. And you see it show up in, like, vampire lore. They can't cross the threshold out being invited in. Black Eyed Kids. They're trying to be invited in. Trying to be invited in. Black Men in Black. Trying to be invited in. A lot of demonic phenomenon is aiming to persuade, deceive a person into saying, I want this.

[Co-host or Additional Guest]

Yeah.

[Brian Sauvay]

And it sounds to me like what was happening in the war between the Holy Spirit and you, I would say, and. And your flesh and this. These demonic entities, they're trying to say, let me. Let me love bomb you. Let me wash you in this perfect feeling of peace. It's not a true peace. It didn't. None of the circumstances of your life causing anxiety at that time, did they really solve.

[Anonymous Guest]

No, they worsened.

[Brian Sauvay]

They got worse because of this. But they would give you this momentary illusion of total peace. And then they start saying, now come further in and I'll give you more peace. But you know what happens if you take the hand of that entity or if you give yourself to it completely.

[Ben]

It reminds me of Genesis 4, 6. Is that where Cain is having his discourse with God?

[Anonymous Guest]

Yeah.

[Ben]

And God says, you know, sin is crouching at your door and you must overcome it or you may overcome it.

[Brian Sauvay]

It's desirous for you.

[Ben]

It's desirous for you, but you must rule over it. You must rule over it. And how even that kind of is a. Like. Lends credence to this idea that it's almost a mercy of God. That there has to be this continual consent on the. Like they still, to your point, like, there's a level of individual sovereignty and the freedom of the will where you still have responsibility that can serve to condemn you. But it's also in a sense like a real mercy.

[Brian Sauvay]

It's a limit that I think God places right.

[Anonymous Guest]

100%.

[Ben]

It's like, no, you have to want this. I can't just make. I can't just drag you in. You have to want to do this.

[Anonymous Guest]

Yeah. Yeah. Well. And even the effort to, like, there's a strong physical effort and mental effort that you have to exert when you are engaged with psychedelics.

[Co-host or Additional Guest]

Yeah.

[Anonymous Guest]

Because it changes everything. Like, your perspective of everything changes.

[Co-host or Additional Guest]

Yeah.

[Anonymous Guest]

In. But to your point, like, nothing ever touched me.

[Co-host or Additional Guest]

Yeah.

[Anonymous Guest]

Nothing ever forced me, but it gave me that illusion. It's like if you just keep walking, you're going to experience X, Y and.

[Ben]

Z will bring you to God.

[Anonymous Guest]

Well, and that was my. And that's literally what I was thinking. Like, I'm about to experience Jesus. And I was so thankful in that moment, by the way. I'm like, thank you, Lord. And I kept thinking that.

[Co-host or Additional Guest]

Yeah.

[Anonymous Guest]

Like gratitude. Until I looked at the door and I realized, no, no, no, the glory is to God alone.

[Co-host or Additional Guest]

Yeah.

[Anonymous Guest]

Like, that's what hit me across the face. It Was like, no glory to this cheap counterfeit. And when I thought, I didn't say it because the whole time I was silent. Jesus, the name of Jesus, like he died on the cross and to him be all the glory. It's when it vanished.

[Co-host or Additional Guest]

Wow.

[Ben]

And it like that in a really visceral way, that kind of shows you just how. Just how inverted the whole message was.

[Anonymous Guest]

Was.

[Ben]

It is like you're getting that. It's kind of like a. Like a hologram of a carrot, you know, where when you're in it, all the stress does go away. Then when you get out of it, the stress is not only still there, but to your point, it kind of compounds. Versus part of what Christ showed in his earthly ministry was there's actually no cheat code and there's no way around dying to yourself means literally, my body is dying. Like, the only way to get to the peace is to walk through that stress of redemption and sanctification, death, burial, and resurrection, all the while knowing that you're upheld by the grace of God and the strength of God. And that's the point, is it's not your strength, but it is still you.

[Anonymous Guest]

Walking through it 100%. Well, in the psychedelic world, you know, there's different stages, right. In the final stage they call breakthrough, where it's where you finally break through whatever anxiety or whatever stress or whatever concern you had kind of going into the experience. And I didn't get there, but I started to experience that. And it almost seemed like this thing was leading me toward this blue light to experience breakthrough, what they would call breakthrough. Well, at the end of the day, I stopped, I did the thing. But the lesson was, for me, one is, God's peace isn't cheap. It's not like, take this pill and you'll experience peace. Because that's essentially what I was being sold with this whole psychedelic experience. The second thing is psychedelics are not for Christians to use. I. And I still have Christian friends that are like, no, I think, you know, there's medicinal. I'm like, no, there isn't. Like, maybe cannabis in some, like, crazy extreme way might be beneficial. Nowadays we can isolate the THC 9 so you can actually get the, you know, like CBD, for example, and inflammation, whatever. I still think there's more honor and just suffering through it than to go get high.

[Brian Sauvay]

Yeah, I mean, I have family members who smoke themselves into paranoia. Like, not real schizophrenia, but kind of like a sort of paranoia that ended up being just isolated from all other family, destroyed relationships, turned them into a Shell of themselves. And the whole way along the road they think that the pot, that the cannabis is helping them. They think it's calming them down, it's giving them. And what it's doing is it's actually destroying their mind.

[Ben]

Well, yeah, and it's, it's insulating, it's putting up more layers of insulation. To real community. Yes, to, to the community.

[Brian Sauvay]

To real solution of your problem.

[Anonymous Guest]

Correct.

[Brian Sauvay]

Like you're 100%. And we, you know, we know our anonymous guest, but I know even we've talked about some of the circumstances and the anxiety you were in the middle of, in that dark season. And to come back to it like it's offering a false solution. The real solution of death, burial and resurrection is you're, you're dying to yourself. You are laying down your life, you are repenting of sins. You're turning from habits that are like all of these difficult things. Facing them head on by grace and through faith, with the help of the Lord brings real resolution to them and has and has. But the psychedelics and these entities, they're not interested in giving you peace. They're interested in swallowing your soul.

[Ben]

And from, you know, you're a husband and a father from that perspective. And you're supposed to love your family the way that Christ loves the church, especially your wife. The way that Christ loves the church who gave himself up for her. The ego death is an ego death. It's centric. It's like totally self centric. It serves you 100% right. But nobody else in that period. And again, I know that we can say this because you've repented like your family was also suffering 100. And the relief that you got gave them actually less relief.

[Anonymous Guest]

Yeah, you know, it was.

[Ben]

And so it's like the dying, the ego death was totally inverted.

[Brian Sauvay]

They needed you to be self ruled, not to just have this, oh, I'm nothing. I've become one with the demonic spirit. So when Christ, dragon spirit, when Christ people were like, great, but could we have dad back?

[Ben]

When Christmas Christ died to himself, it benefited the world.

[Co-host or Additional Guest]

Right.

[Ben]

Literally everybody. And when a Christian man dies to himself, to himself.

[Co-host or Additional Guest]

Yeah.

[Ben]

It actually leads to the flourishing and good of his wife and children and community at large. You know, his church.

[Anonymous Guest]

Yeah, there's, I mean there's, there's honor and, and glory in, in doing what you just said.

[Co-host or Additional Guest]

Yeah.

[Anonymous Guest]

Versus what I was doing. And part of it was the shame. I'm like, I did everybody wrong. Do you see what I'm saying? Like I did my wife wrong. I did. She at one point said, I was just waiting to figure out if I was gonna have to get a different husband. Like, I thought you were gonna die.

[Co-host or Additional Guest]

Dang.

[Anonymous Guest]

And I'm like. That was hard to hear because I'm like, I was that big of a coward. And. And that's. That's what pushed me to just say I'm done from one day to another. Right.

[Co-host or Additional Guest]

Yeah.

[Anonymous Guest]

One thing I learned with. With the. The cannabis thing is that to all of those Christians who are still on the fence. No, it might still be good. Here's the thing. It's a slow way to kill the will to survive. Yeah, it's a slow death.

[Co-host or Additional Guest]

Wow.

[Anonymous Guest]

It's worse than dying by a thousand paper cuts. Yeah, it is. It is. You don't feel the pain until you don't have it, and then you go do more. And it's like. It's like a frog that's dying in boiling water. You know, like, you keep turning out the temperature, you don't feel it. You think you're fine, but you're not. You're actually not. And so the last thing that I learned from this is, you know, true peace is not found away from reality, but. But it's found in accepting the condition in which God has placed us. And that is essentially what led to. To true contentment. Because I wasn't content. I was not satisfied. I was not happy. I needed more. Something else. A new way to find, you know, more creativity to excel at my work, etc. And it made everything worse.

[Co-host or Additional Guest]

Yeah.

[Anonymous Guest]

So. So you believe the aliens are demons? Yeah, I do.

[Ben]

Jake Muller Adventures is an immersive, mysterious and engaging audio drama. It weaves in meaningful Christian themes and rich sound design with suspenseful storytelling. Check out the Jake Muller Adventures audio drama [e-mail] or you can find them on Spotify, Audible, or Google Play.

[Brian Sauvay]

What is that? Did you hear that? Is that a ghost?

[Ben]

It's just me moaning through the pain of a terrible night of sleep and a hurt back.

[Brian Sauvay]

Honestly, you probably just have a magnesium deficiency, which, like the Fae, is a very real thing.

[Ben]

Well, how. Well, how do I get more magnesium? Do I start leaving offerings out to it or something?

[Brian Sauvay]

No, you just use Humble Love's magnesium cream. It's got no weird chemicals or demonic ingredients. It's made by a husband and wife team. Totally clean, totally safe, even for kids.

[Ben]

Well, at least that doesn't sound scary.

[Brian Sauvay]

It's not. Visit the humblelife store.com. that's the humblelifestore.com and use code NCP15 for 15% off your first jar link in the description.

[Ben]

Hey, Brian, have you ever wondered what Sasquatch's feet smell like after a long journey through the wilderness?

[Brian Sauvay]

Absolutely not. But I have wondered about what a dwarven forge smells like after I visit a Gothic cathedral that sits right next to the alchemist.

[Ben]

Whoa. Well, hey, then you're in luck, because Mythology Candles has all of those scents in candle form.

[Brian Sauvay]

Even Sasquatch's smelly feet.

[Ben]

Well, not really his smelly feet, but they do have a Sasquatch candle. So go to mythologycandles.com that's mythology spelled with ie at the end. And use code cosmos for 10% off your order.

[Brian Sauvay]

Hey, Ben, I just read that our great grandparents probably experimented with butter on their dry skin as a moisturizer. Is that why you look so radiant?

[Ben]

Maybe it's Grandma's butter recipe. Or maybe it's Gray Toe Tallow.

[Brian Sauvay]

Their tallow products are 100% organic and naturally contain the good stuff from your skin craves. No mystery there.

[Ben]

So say sayonara, Sammy, to kitchen experiments. And say hello to healthier skin. Gray Toad Tallow Trusted by skin envied by Great Grandma's butter recipe.

[Brian Sauvay]

For more information and to get a sample pack, check out gray toad tallow dot com. Don't forget to use the code COSMOS15. That's all caps. Cosmos15 for 15% off your order.

[Anonymous Guest]

Don't do cannabis.

[Brian Sauvay]

Don't do drugs. Kids don't do drugs. Right.

[Co-host or Additional Guest]

Yeah.

[Ben]

The dare officer.

[Brian Sauvay]

You know what's interesting to me, and maybe we just end here, but I had one more thing, and you. Is that it's so funny to me that the passage says that in any temptation, God always provides, like a door of escape, a way of escape. And that in your case, it was literally symbolized in a door.

[Ben]

A door. We never even brought him up, says Solide.

[Brian Sauvay]

God's like, I cannot make this more obvious. Do you want to escape from the demons, or do you want to go and be consumed by them? I don't know how to put it more clearly than that, but here's the door. So I think it's not. There's no levity to it. Like I was gonna say, God has a sense of humor, but it's more like God just. There are moments in your life where you wonder whether it was the voice of God in his providence or just, you know, normal human wisdom or whatever. But this is just a moment where, like, the Lord was there.

[Anonymous Guest]

Yeah.

[Brian Sauvay]

And he was watching over you. And he turned you in that moment and he appointed that time and he said, this is going to be the moment where I'm going to free my servant from this.

[Ben]

And I mean, and that should be great assurance for you and for anyone listening maybe struggling with similar stuff. Like, Christ says that any who come to him shall not fall away. And I mean, what a case in point. Like, even though Paul says this, I think it's to Titus, maybe it's to Timothy, but he says even if we are faithless, he remains faithful, for he cannot deny himself. Which is to say, like, when we become adopted, we become a part of Christ's body, and he can't deny himself. So he's not going to let you fall away.

[Co-host or Additional Guest]

Yep.

[Ben]

Like, he'll pull. He'll move, literally move heaven and earth to save even the. Even the single lamb that goes astray.

[Co-host or Additional Guest]

Wow.

[Ben]

One thing that it made me think of this is much more on like a. Not a scientific level, but a more technical level. I was listening to this Instagram reel with Huberman and he was talking about how he was talking to one of his friends who's like a leading neurosurgeon, and he asked him how much of the stuff in medical textbooks that we're teaching students today is just wrong. And we know it's just wrong, but we haven't gotten to update everything. And the guy said about 60%, conservatively.

[Co-host or Additional Guest]

Wow.

[Anonymous Guest]

60%.

[Brian Sauvay]

Huberman. Huberman Labs. The hormone.

[Ben]

Huberman Labs, Yeah. And it's just dead wrong. And Huberman's follow up was. And what do you think the cost? Like, what has been the cost of that? And the guy said it's totally incalculable. Like there's been massive death and cost from this. And it got me thinking. It's not really directly related to this, but it got me thinking about how you see parallels to what you experienced in so many of these ancient myths and these mysteries, these, like, Eleusinian rite type things where people go and they want to experience the ego death. And then for centuries we thought that was ridiculous and stupid. And then you get guys like, for all of his faults, Carl Jung, the psychoanalyst who started to look at, like, dreams and visions, and he's assuming all these things that are bad. But one thing that he noticed is, like, those people, when they're in these experiences, they're not acting out anything physically. Like they're not participating physically with what's happening.

[Anonymous Guest]

Right, right.

[Ben]

But it is real and it has a profound effect on the rest of their life. And the way that they live. And so these things with the Eleusinian rites, your experience at a more individual level, like people may be tempted to write that off as, oh, he's just seeing things. Like the drugs don't actually make you see anything real. It's just constructs of the mind. But I think like to Huberman's point, to Jung's point and to your point, and really to the point of the Bible, these things actually are all connected and there's a ton that we just don't know.

[Brian Sauvay]

Yeah, there are things that, that's one of the key points is that epistemic humility, this humility about the nature and extent of our knowledge, how we know what we know, what we know. We have to start with the assumption that our knowledge is so far short of reality that we need to obey God. Especially in areas where we're like, I just don't see why I can't do that, why I shouldn't do that, why I'm not allowed to do that. And the reason is that we need to obey is because God created us. He knows all things. He knows things that are. It's like when you tell your three year old something, you're like, no, just trust me, don't do this. And they're like, I have no idea. That sounds like the greatest thing ever.

[Ben]

Yeah.

[Brian Sauvay]

And you're like, will, literally you will die if you do this. And they're like, ah, what is dying? They don't even know, you know, like that's. And we're so much further from God than a three year old to an adult.

[Co-host or Additional Guest]

Yeah.

[Brian Sauvay]

Like it's not even calculable. So we do need to obey.

[Ben]

It's like in Paralandra when the, the unman is tempting the green lady. Like, what's the point of not sleeping on the fixed land? Like that doesn't make any sense. Doesn't make any sense at all. And Ransom tells the Green lady isn't. Doesn't perfect love require obedience precisely when you don't understand?

[Brian Sauvay]

Yes, exactly. That is the key point.

[Ben]

And like, and that's so much of what God is trying to teach us as, you know, infants to an adult. But even more so, like, if you want to experience perfect love, then you have to learn how to just obey with delight.

[Anonymous Guest]

Well, and that's what the cold turkey thing was for me.

[Co-host or Additional Guest]

Obey. Yeah.

[Anonymous Guest]

Everyone I've talked to, like, I know a lot of people that have been in this world and continue to be.

[Co-host or Additional Guest]

In it.

[Anonymous Guest]

You know, afterwards, they would come to me at like, business events, networking events, and bring, like, a random thing for me to hit. Like, oh, you know, try this one. It's a new strain. You know, it's this wax that. It's got this other thing. And this. These molecules now, you know, they're stronger, whatever. Literally, like, that's how it is.

[Co-host or Additional Guest]

Yeah.

[Anonymous Guest]

And I'm like, all right, I'm done.

[Co-host or Additional Guest]

Nope.

[Anonymous Guest]

And they're like, what do you mean you're done? I'm like, I don't smoke anymore. They're like, well, you have to wean off. Like, I'm like, no, you don't understand. I quit 100%, cold turkey. I'm done. And these guys were like, how are you doing that? Like, can you sleep? No. Like, it was like a week of, like, crazy insomnia, you know? Can you operate? I don't know. I'm trying.

[Co-host or Additional Guest]

Right.

[Anonymous Guest]

It was it. But in. I didn't. I didn't understand it. I didn't understand why it felt so hard. But I relied on this. Just obey, like, you know, this is what you need to do. So just freaking do it.

[Co-host or Additional Guest]

Yeah.

[Anonymous Guest]

And do it with all your might until you'll probably sleep because you're so tired after a week of not sleeping. And that's worth it.

[Co-host or Additional Guest]

Yeah.

[Ben]

There's this verse, probably my favorite passage in the Old Testament. It's in Lamentations 3, where Jeremiah is done. Well, he's paused, talking about the destruction of his home. And he says, this I call to mind, and therefore I have hoped. The steadfast love of the Lord never ceases. His mercies never come to an end. Great is your faith. All this stuff. And then there's one line that's overlooked a lot where it says, it's good for a young man to bear the yoke in his youth. And there's something there that I think speaks to the reality of sanctification, where you're in it and you're trying to obey, and it's just painful, hard. And you're like, but why? Like God, why, why, why? And he doesn't always answer. And part of why is because his wisdom is above ours. It's unsearchable. But he promises us. But it's good to bear the yoke. It's like, I'm not going to give this to you, not for your good. So just faithfully endure it.

[Co-host or Additional Guest]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Brian Sauvay]

All right. Well, hey, thanks for coming and sharing your story. That was. Honestly, blew me away. I mean, amazing. We're thankful to be some small part of it and just hope that it helps me away.

[Anonymous Guest]

Oh my goodness.

[Brian Sauvay]

So thanks, thanks for joining us. We're honored to have you.

[Anonymous Guest]

It's been a pleasure guys. Thank you. Thank you for the content you guys have been making.

[Brian Sauvay]

You got it. Well guys, thanks for listening or watching here on YouTube or wherever you're listening in. If you like what we do on Haunted Cosmos here in the off season, we'd encourage you to jump on to one of our supporter channels. Patreon.com Haunted Cosmos is a great place to start and you can not only get access to all sorts of behind the scenes stuff, we have a weekly podcast called the Dusty Tome that's a story driven podcast produced just for our patrons and supporters there as a thank you for making all of this possible. We couldn't do any of the things we do without your support. But also in the off season, our patrons are actually not in the off season because they're continually getting early and ad free access to fully produced all of our main shows. They've typically had them significantly earlier then the public and are watching and listening in there on Patreon. So thanks for listening in guys. We hope it's been helpful and this is exactly why we do it. Turning the lights on in the darkest cracks of the world that God has made. And we hope this episode's been helpful to you. We'll see you next time.