A (1:47)

We are joined by our friend and listener supporter of the show, jj, bro. Jj, say hello to everybody.

B (1:53)

Hello, everyone.

A (1:55)

Awesome. Jj, why don't you tell the listeners a little bit about yourself, and then I'm going to have an icebreaker question for you after you give a little bio.

B (2:05)

Yeah. So I guess I can start out with, I am a student right now at Puritan Reformed Theological Seminary, about to graduate over there with my master's degree. By the time this recording is out, I'm sure I will have finished my thesis and the light's going to be at the end of the tunnel for me there. I'm also a pastoral intern in the pca.

A (2:28)

Nice.

C (2:29)

Congratulations.

A (2:30)

Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome.

C (2:31)

A lot of work.

A (2:32)

Pray the Lord blesses you in that. Very good work. Now to the real stuff.

C (2:38)

Wow. Like you personally, your achievements mean nothing to Ben. No.

A (2:44)

Ah, it's all about taking risks. Comedy's all about taking. All right, jj, in no particular order, I want you to rank your top Three dessert style cereals. Like sugary cereals. It doesn't have to. In no particular order.

C (2:58)

This is a great question.

B (2:59)

Actually, I think it's the most important question I'm going to be asked in this interview.

C (3:04)

Easily.

A (3:05)

Yeah.

B (3:06)

So I think I would rank it in no particular order. First, Cinnamon Toast Crunch.

C (3:12)

Oh, wow.

B (3:14)

Second, Reese's Puffs.

A (3:16)

Oh, man, you lost me a connoisseur.

B (3:20)

And then third, if I'm feeling bougie, some Special K. Special K?

A (3:25)

Special K doesn't count. That meant I meant to say Special K doesn't count. No, because it's Special K. It counts. That's like saying, like, what's the whole, like the perfect four or whatever, dude.

C (3:36)

But like, what about Oreo?

A (3:37)

The Oreo O's cereal Oreos.

C (3:41)

I don't know what it's called.

A (3:44)

Hey, jj, you reeled me in like hook, line and sinker. Starting it out with Cinnamon Toast Crunch. What a banger.

C (3:51)

I now know everything I need to know about jj.

A (3:54)

I have never had Reese's Puffs.

C (3:56)

What?

A (3:57)

So I don't know and you're just dumping all over? No, I'm just saying you lost me because I've never had them. Okay. And then special Kids. Yeah, I, I, I don't know. I don't know.

C (4:08)

It is kind of like saying I like Grape Nuts. You know what I mean?

A (4:14)

I've never had Special Case cereal though, so I can't talk. Well, hey, how about this? Let's get into like, what people actually came.

C (4:21)

That's right. The ice is broken.

A (4:23)

The ice is broken. We're all friends. We're all like, we go way back at this point now. And actually, I have met JJ multiple times at Right response.

C (4:30)

And, and okay, well then, yeah.

A (4:33)

So jj, we're really, really grateful that you took time out of your day to be here. And we would love to hear the spooky story that you have prepared for us.

C (4:47)

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A (5:17)

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B (5:50)

So my story is going to begin in Nepal. Now, for anyone who doesn't know, Nepal is a small country. It's sandwiched between China on the north and India on the south. It also sits on top of the tallest mountain range in the world, the Himalayas. And the reason why I find all that interesting is because that in the Bible worship, whether it's true worship or false worship, it almost always centers around these high places or mountains. And so with Nepal being entirely in the Himalayas, you can see the entire country as a high place of sorts. In the Bible, we have, like, Mount Sinai, Mount Zion, even the Garden of Eden, probably located on top of a mountain. And in the Old Testament Israel, all the false worship was in these high places. So with all that in mind, it seems to be that high places are a place where the spiritual and the physical world, in some sense, they can kind of bleed into one another. So all this becomes relevant for Nepal, especially when you consider that it has a really long and storied history in false worship. Not only has it historically been Hindu, so that would be worshiping thousands of false gods, but it's also the birthplace of the Buddha, from whom Buddhism gets its name. And then even today, this false worship continues where really only 2% of the population, and that's basically at max, is Christian.

A (7:42)

Is that like. Is that a mixture of different Christian traditions, like Eastern and Western mix?

B (7:48)

Yeah, yeah. Eastern, Western, I'm sure. Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, I think those are included in the Christian count.

A (7:55)

Wow. So even that 2% is, like. That's.

C (7:57)

It's a high number.

A (7:58)

Yeah, yeah. Generous. Yeah.

C (7:59)

No offense. Well, actually, offense intended.

A (8:03)

Offense to some of them. Yeah.

B (8:06)

And everywhere you go, really, there is kind of this air of spiritual battle that's there in Hinduism and Buddhism. There's nothing really that's mundane. Everything is spiritual. Everything is divine in some way. And so every aspect of the culture kind of takes place in a real spiritual level for them. So, for example, even when they greet each other, they say namaste, which is a way of essentially acknowledging that the other Person that they're speaking to is divine in some way.

A (8:46)

Wow, I didn't know that.

C (8:46)

I've read Eat, Pray, Love, so I do know that.

A (8:48)

I didn't know that about Namaste, which

C (8:50)

is a huge L for me, by the way, that I've read that book.

A (8:52)

Oh, you were being serious.

C (8:54)

I'm 100% being serious. It was a. It was long ago. One of my biggest mistakes.

B (8:58)

But, yeah, so if you go to Nepal as a Christian, then all the Hindus and Buddhists, they're going to greet you with Namaste. But the Christians won't greet you with that. They'll actually say J Masi, which means, I think you're going to love this. It means victory to the Messiah.

C (9:17)

They just say that as a greeting. We start saying, yes, hey, hello, person I've never met.

A (9:21)

James.

C (9:21)

Victory to Jesus Christ.

A (9:23)

It's like. It's like the guy that's like. Instead of saying merry Christmas, I like to say, may the birth of the one true Christ bless you this season

C (9:31)

because I don't want to offend anybody. Like, so, you know, there's happy holidays and then there's that.

A (9:35)

Yeah. Okay. So you. You found yourself in Nepal. Was that for, like, a mission trip?

B (9:42)

Yeah, yeah. This is my summer between high school and college.

A (9:45)

Okay. All right. So, yeah, I mean, stage is set, and I'm assuming you probably experienced multiple things being in an environment like that, but. Yeah, walk us through it.

B (9:57)

Yeah. So as you can imagine, you know, Christian missionaries, they describe different aspects of spiritual warfare all the time. Yeah, I've heard multiple stories that basically sound like sleep paralysis demons or things of that nature. Everyone kind of recognizes that there's something spiritual that's going on. Not everyone knows the best way to describe it. Sometimes you'll just hear people generally say there's some kind of heaviness that's there or a darkness or something along those lines. And so I would say that really, you know, I'm not exactly the type of person that would, I guess, express things in those ways. You know, I come from a theological tradition that it's not really as open to spiritual, supernatural, you know, spiritual dynamics and those things in the way that, you know, some traditions might see that. And by the way, I don't say that to, like, exclude anyone who's charismatic or anything, but I say that to maybe include the people that are more like me, who would be. Who tend to be more skeptical, because that's really where I was entering the country. But with that said, there was one time where I definitely felt something that, you know, I could only describe as a heaviness. And that's when I was in the capital city in Kathmandu and I had gone up and population density wise, it's. I mean, probably not quite as bad as like New Delhi. But yeah, I think if you picture that, you kind of get an idea. So I went to on top of the hostel that we were staying at. I went to the roof where they had this nice garden that was up there, and it was surrounded by all these, all this greenery, all these trellises. And so it was really nice place. It seemed to be, you know, the perfect place to pray. The only place where I really felt like I was alone at any point in time there. And so I went and I sat down on a bench to pray. But despite everything I just told you, I didn't feel alone. And I kind of felt like something was staring at me. And when I looked up, I saw, oh, I was being stared at by a demon. Now when I say a demon, I mean a mask of an idol on the wall that was staring down at me. So in a very real sense, a demon was staring at me. Now, I saw this idol and I just kind of rationalized in my head. This is following Isaiah. This is something. It's made of wood, it has eyes, but it sees not all those things. So I'm thinking to myself, look, I can just kind of, you know, put this aside, not really care about this whatsoever, and, you know, continue on. But as I continued just sitting on the bench and trying to go through my prayer time, I just couldn't shake the feeling that this thing was still glaring at me through it's just wooden, dead eyes. So eventually I just retreated from that rooftop. I never really went back there for the purpose of praying or, or anything like that.

A (13:37)

Dang. So I'm. So it's like a tribal mask that's looking down at you?

B (13:45)

Yeah, I remember it. Sorry. I remember maybe it was like the face was red and it had like this scowl on it and, you know, horns and fangs and all those things.

A (13:57)

Did you ever find out what it was supposed to represent? Like, was there a particular deity or anything that it was supposed to be?

B (14:05)

No, I didn't go asking around about it.

A (14:08)

Didn't go interviewing people about that idol.

B (14:11)

But, you know, you would see tons of different idol masks out there. And I mean, Hinduism has thousands of gods. I wasn't really that interested in finding out, like, the specifics of each one. I didn't recognize it. It didn't look like Shiva. It didn't look like one of the other big three gods. I can't remember their names right now.

A (14:31)

Yeah.

B (14:32)

And it was the elephant one.

A (14:34)

But it was like you had been up there before and you knew that. That. Did you know before that that mask was there, or was that like a new. Like a new sighting for you?

B (14:45)

Yeah, it was a new sighting for me. Yeah. So just looking for somewhere around the hostel for somewhere to go and be in private. Yeah, I found. I found the rooftop.

C (14:57)

And.

A (14:57)

But you're a guy who's going up there with these kind of, like you said, this. This Christian tradition that's very much not bent towards the charismatic, not bent towards trying to sense the spiritual forces that may be around you. And you were already in prayer, I'm assuming, eyes closed, just because that's what I would assume. And you couldn't escape this heaviness in the sense of being looked on and watched in this kind of private setting. And so it was enough to make you a nice buttoned up Presbyterian leave entirely. Yeah.

B (15:41)

Yeah. And now it wasn't a Presbyterian at this time, but. But, yeah.

A (15:45)

Gotcha. What were you?

B (15:47)

Baptist.

C (15:47)

Oh.

A (15:48)

And then he saw the light.

C (15:50)

We can identify. Man, that's wild. How long were you in Nepal overall?

B (15:57)

So I was there for two months, and really, the story that I think y' all are gonna want to get into is one that I experienced my second month in Nepal. And this was in the Valley of Chituan. So I imagine the elevation was still very high, but compared to all the mountains around us, it was the valley. You know, I'm from Louisiana, and I would say that Chichuan reminded me way too much of home with the heat, the humidity, the rice fields, like, all of that, except without air conditioning, without transportation, just having to walk everywhere.

C (16:38)

That's.

B (16:38)

Yeah.

C (16:39)

As a nightmare scenario.

B (16:41)

Yeah. We would sometimes, like, pile up into this. Those little tuk tuks or scooter things and. But, you know, those were only occasionally available for us.

A (16:52)

Yeah.

C (16:54)

Oh, yeah. I was on a mission trip in Cambodia, and there were those little carts everywhere. And the craziest thing was that they actually, like, there were no rules in Cambodia, so they just rented me a moped. I was like, 16 or 17. They're like, oh, yeah, here you go. 8 cents or something like that.

A (17:10)

No insurance.

C (17:11)

I'm just like. Like, should have died. I can identify.

B (17:16)

We rode a bus to this one village in the mountains, and it was a school bus, and they were taking us to the village while also picking up Kids for school. And the kids. The kids would climb up on top of the roof of the bus as we were driving around.

C (17:33)

Why not?

A (17:33)

There's no rules as a kid, though. That's the dream.

C (17:35)

Yeah, that is the dream. America actually could use a little bit more of that.

A (17:38)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you're in this valley and it's stifling heat, and what happens?

B (17:45)

Yeah, so we. The church that we were at, it was, I would say, a very spiritually unhealthy church, even from no matter what perspective you look at. There was a. There were two leaders at the church who. One of them had the spiritual gift of healing, and the other one had a spiritual gift of prophesying. And at the end of every church service, people would kind of line up the people that would need healing and the people that need, you know, prophesying. And these two guys kind of had this feud with one another and over who could get kind of the most amass, the biggest following for themselves and all this stuff. It was resolved by the time that we got there. But it was definitely, I think, just an illustration that the church wasn't really in a good space. The pastor tells us that he was really glad that we were here because there were many women at the church that were demon possessed, and he wanted us to go over to their houses. All in all, I think there's about seven or so women at this church that. And it was all women for some reason, but these women at this church where we were sent to their houses for. For the purpose of praying for these demons, trying to cast them out, those things. And so again, in the heat and just going on foot, we kind of walked all over town most days just trying to cast out supposed demons.

C (19:24)

It's really the ideal situation.

A (19:26)

It's like, yeah, like K pop demon hunters, but not K pop. And also guys.

C (19:33)

And also Baptist missionaries. Like, in a very real sense, not

A (19:39)

like K pop demon hunters, just the demon hunters part.

C (19:42)

So I love this too. They're like, we're gonna go on a mission trip. What kind of training do you guys have? Like, you know, we're just. We're normal kind of Baptist Christians going on a mission trip. And they're like, great. And the past goes great. We need you to cast all the demons out. And you're like. I thought, is that not your thing?

A (19:59)

You're the guy with the healing thing.

C (20:02)

I didn't know that you needed. Like, was there a course I was supposed to take?

A (20:08)

Did you think, like, were any of them legit or do you look back and be like, wow, that. No, that was actually something was social there. Yeah.

B (20:16)

So the reason why I say supposed so many of them, I did not feel like there's one that I was pretty sure it was just some kind of like physical and mental handle handicap that was going on. So some kind of disability there. And yeah, there's others who like we would go and we would pray for them and they would just kind of sit there and maybe like rock back and forth dramatically. And then we would go around their house and we would see like we would find that they still had all these idols around their houses. And so we would come back and say, you know, if you are having these spiritual issues, it's probably the fact that you still have these demons in your house, you should probably get rid of them. And so we would just kind of leave with those words. But I do have, there was one woman at the very end who I'm convinced if anyone was demon possessed, I fully believe that she was. And yeah, I can get into that story.

A (21:24)

Yeah, absolutely. At Hana Cosmos we know that a lot of our listeners are business owners and entrepreneurs that are working to advance Christendom. One of those listeners is Nathan Rose with Rose Solutions. He provides website design, maintenance and security. His mission is to promote the business of Christendom by building websites for like minded entrepreneurs. If you or someone you know is looking for help with your website, get a consultation with nathan by visiting cosmoswebsites.com Tell him you're a listener of Hana Cosmos to learn how you could get your first six months of hosting and security for free. Do you want a six pack? No, I don't mean abs and I don't mean beer. Now I'm talking about the six pack. You really want a six pack of masculine smelling bars of soap from Indigo Sundry Soap Company. And if you're buying masculine soap, then we all know your beard needs some grooming too. And that's why they sell a beard care bundle with beard oil balm and mustache wax. Get the soap and the beard bundle@indigosundrysoap.com and subscribe for 10% off your order.

B (22:26)

So we can pause and shift the perspective a little bit if you all are good with that. So let's go back in time a little bit to this man who is engaged. He has this arranged marriage where he's engaged to this one woman. But as he grows up, he falls in love with a different woman and he breaks off his arranged marriage and he marries the second woman. Well, the father, the first woman was very upset about this. So upset that he goes and he hires a witch doctor to curse the woman, the second woman, and curse the marriage. And, you know, I just personally think that the demons were all too eager. They probably didn't need much asking. When you say, hey, I want you to go over and destroy this marriage for me, they're like, okay, sure. So this woman, shortly after they get married, the woman just randomly erupts into violence. And I know, you know, you can have. You can chalk that up to a lot of things. You can chalk that up to, you know, the woman just being abusive, something of that nature. Except the thing that leads me into thinking, no, this is definitely something that's supernatural or. Or something that's more than natural is the fact that she would do this completely unprovoked. She would wake up in the middle of the night and just start wailing on her husband. So it's not like in the heat of an argument, anything like that. It's just, you know, it's 2:00am, 3:00am whatever time, it's the middle night, she suddenly wakes up and just starts attacking him. So they. The couple, they both wanted to. They both wanted to resolve this. And so they. They weren't Christians. Again, this is, you know, only 2%, you know, Christian country. They're in a very remote village, so it's, I imagine, even less Christian in those areas. And so they went. They tried everything that they could. They went to. They went to a witch doctor, they went to different religious leaders. And then basically, after they had exhausted all their options, they finally decided to go and try the Christian church and see if the Christians could do something about this. And so they come over to the church, and as they're getting closer, the woman originally, she was kind of on board with this, but as she gets closer to the church, she becomes more and more resistant and just felt like she could not walk in to the point where by the time they were about to the doors, the husband had to pretty much drag her into the church. And then once she gets into the church, she collapses on the floor and lets out a scream. Now I. I'm in the church. At this time, we were living. Sleeping in the church. I had just gone back from, like, another failed attempt at a supposed exorcism. I am. I'm sitting in my room and I'm laying down on a sleeping bag covered in sweatshirt, and I'm resting my eyes, and then I suddenly hear a scream from a woman coming down the corridor. And I just. I just Sighed and I rolled my eyes because my thought was, oh, great, it's another one.

A (26:48)

It's like women, am I right?

C (26:53)

All these Nepalese women are just possessed by demons.

B (26:57)

So I. With zero enthusiasm, I get up and I walk down the corridor just out of obligation more than anything else. And I see the woman. She's on some kind of couch futon thing, and she's convulsing, and everyone is holding her down. And I get recruited to help hold her down. And so, as you can imagine, there's like seven or eight of us holding down this very small Nepalese woman. And I. All I'm doing is I'm holding down, like, her right calf, and I am struggling to do so with all the strength that she has behind her and just convulsing wildly.

A (27:53)

Now, that's crazy.

B (27:55)

We continued to. We. We all just sat and we prayed for her. There was, like I said, lots of convulsing, lots of screaming. People were getting in her face, praying at one point. There's our cook on the team. His name was Commander B.B.

C (28:19)

is that his Christian name?

B (28:23)

I'm not sure. That was probably a name that he let us call him so that we didn't have to mispronounce his name. But he was Commander BB because he was. He was a veteran from, I think, the army. And he's up in her face screaming, and he's, like, waving his. Like his hand and his fist in front of her very. It was. It was something. It was something. And we would pray and then every now and then, she would let out a scream and just tire out. And then people would come and they would. We would bring her food, which I thought was a bad idea because I'm just like, why are we feeding it? You know, I feel like we should be. Yeah, yeah. Like, let's starve it out.

A (29:20)

Starve it out. Yeah.

C (29:22)

I like your strategy.

B (29:24)

Yeah. But. But anyways, we would generously feed her, and then after a while, she would recover and then go into another one of the fits.

A (29:35)

How long does this. Did this last?

B (29:38)

A few hours.

A (29:39)

Wow. Did it, like, was there a conclusion? Like, did she ever stop and. And was there any fruit that made it appear? There was a change.

B (29:49)

Yeah. So finally, again, after a few hours, she let out another scream, but this scream kind of melted into a sigh or a gasp, and she just. She calmed down before. And people who experience demon possession, or I would say maybe suspected demon possession, one thing that they talk about is the eyes. And some people, again, they'll describe it in different Ways, something about the eyes, the way that I would describe it best would to just be to say they seem kind of animalistic. You know, it's a person that, like, it's a rational, reasonable person who, you know, is able to, you know, date this man and you know, get married to them. But when it's like they go into these fits, you know, there's, there doesn't seem to be any of that rationality there. Exactly. And yeah, animalistic, I think would be the best way to describe it. Well, all that went away. She came back to her right mind. We were able to have dinner with her after this and I ended up being the one sitting right across the table from her. Felt a little uneasy about that. But she talked with us and talked through a translator for us and that's how I was able to hear about all this backstory. And we were able to share the gospel with her. And she converted to Christianity, her and her husband.

A (31:40)

Wow.

B (31:40)

And yeah, let's go.

A (31:41)

Praise God. Did she stop beating her husband at 2am and you know, I wish that.

B (31:47)

Yeah, yeah, I wish I could follow up and in fact I tried to when we have this, this arranged, but. But then I, I just realized as I try to follow up with people, you know, I don't remember the name of the church.

A (32:03)

Yeah, it reminds me of the, the, you know, Dr. Walter Martin, he wrote the Kingdom of the People book and he's a Protestant guy, comes from a similar tradition. And, and the exorcism that he talks about is similar to that. Especially the strength of the. Where it's like this small woman and it's taking six full grown guys to control this woman to the point where she's not. And the thing is, it's not like she was running away, it's like she was beating them and she was succeeding in that if they let her get out. And then you know, similar thing, they're praying over her and praying over and just calling upon the name of the Lord and finally it just stopped. And he, you know, it was all in America, so it was a little bit easier for him to follow up, but he did. And, and it was like a total change. Like she had been in the church for years, she was not a Christian and she got into some witchcraft, some woo woo stuff went down that road. And then she herself is like, no, you read the scriptures and the demonic possession accounts and she's like, that's what it was. And it's crazy to hear it from both him and her. So.

C (33:15)

Wow.

A (33:16)

I mean, that's J.J. that's. That's a crazy story, man. Yeah.

B (33:20)

You know, I experienced maybe one other story that was where again, I think this person actually was demon possessed. That one doesn't actually have like any kind of exorcism story tied to it. Is in my mission trip the previous year to Uganda. But, you know, I saw the. It was kind of the same thing that you saw in the eyes going on there. But yeah, it's taken me a while, I think, to kind of think through it and I guess kind of wrestle with whatever theological aspects are. Are going on with all of this.

A (34:01)

Yeah, yeah. Well, man, praise God that the Lord, you know, used you and used you in your team to hopefully, really, really helped that woman in that family. And it's amazing that she repented and placed her faith in the Lord.

C (34:15)

Yeah, I think, I think your, your suspicion seems correct that the demons and I mean, when you have a place like Nepal with, you know, centuries of demon worship and then this story of the bitter father, he's like, I got to hurt this guy. Let's go to the witch doctor. Let's sic a demon on him. And it works.

A (34:39)

Yeah.

C (34:39)

And people, I think in a lot of, you know, maybe even our reformed worlds or we tend towards suspicion of any story like this. And I think it's okay to be suspicious, like you are of many of the people who maybe something else going on, but I do think we need to keep an openness and say, well, but this is exactly the kind of thing we should expect.

A (34:59)

Yeah.

C (35:00)

Based on when we read the scriptures, what we see there, even things like the supernatural strength where the chains couldn't bind the man who was filled with demons until the Lord cast them out. I mean, this is straightforwardly biblical stuff,

A (35:14)

how the sons of Sceva were overcome by a single demon possessed. Man.

C (35:17)

It even reminds me of, you know, that show River Monsters? Have you ever seen that with Jeremy Wade? Dude, it's a great show.

A (35:24)

First of all, Extreme Angler.

C (35:25)

Extreme Angler. He goes to like a remote place in the world and he's like, oh, I'm gonna go and catch this fish. And it's some crazy rare, giant toothed. And there's one where he goes to this river, I can't even remember what region of the world is. And he fishes for weeks. And it's a television show. So like, if they don't catch a fish, they just wasted tens of thousands of dollars. Production crew and all this travel stuff. And so he literally went to a local witch doctor and he was like, can you get me the fish? And this old witch doctor's like, oh, yeah, I get you the fish. You know, through translators, they do all this ceremony. Jeremy Wade's not a Christian. He's like an atheist probably. He's just like, well, it was for the show. You could tell that he was doing it. They do the whole thing and all these bones and rights and crackling fire and weird native language sounds and stuff. And then the flipping next day, he goes out and he catches the fish.

A (36:20)

Yeah.

C (36:21)

And the witch doctor's like, see, it's the. I told you I could get you that fish.

A (36:25)

It's the unholy quid pro quo. Yeah.

C (36:28)

And I'm just like, jeremy, first of

A (36:29)

all, was it worth it?

B (36:30)

Yeah.

A (36:30)

I'll give you this fish. You give me your soul.

C (36:32)

Yeah, but we look at that stuff, we go, oh, it's just for tv. Oh, it's just, you know, people faking it or whatever. But, hey, this stuff is actually real. There are demons out there that are trying to steal, kill, and destroy. And, yeah, they would love to destroy a marriage. Oh, you want to hurt someone who bears the image of God? Absolutely. I'm on board with that.

A (36:52)

Yeah.

C (36:53)

So it's just. That's a crazy story. I appreciate you taking the time to come on and tell it to us. Yeah.

A (36:58)

Jj, thanks a lot for your time. We really appreciate it.

B (37:03)

All right, thank you.

A (37:04)

Yes, sir. We're going to be signing off with this episode of the Graveyard Shift. Like I just said, very grateful to our guest jj. Y' all be praying for him as he seeks to finish seminary. And we look forward to seeing you in the next episode. This has been Garrett signing off.

C (37:22)

Sam.