Haunted Cosmos – Episode S5:E6: "Ouija" (September 3, 2025)
Episode Overview
In this episode, Ben Garrett and Brian Sauvé investigate the reality of spiritual dangers connected to seances, Ouija boards, tarot cards, and occult fortune-telling. The hosts blend history, Christian philosophy, first-hand accounts, and legendary tales to explore how attempts to pierce the veil between physical and spiritual realms have led to real-world tragedy, despair, and destruction. Their central thesis: "The world is not just stuff," and seeking forbidden knowledge comes with dire consequences.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Introduction: The Myth of Orpheus and the Temptation of Forbidden Knowledge
- [00:39] Ben: Begins with a retelling of the Orpheus myth as a parable for human longing to defy the divine order and gain knowledge meant to remain hidden. Orpheus’s failed quest into Hades, driven by love and doubt, becomes an allegory for man’s attempts to peer behind the supernatural veil.
- "Faced with this fear, humanity responds in one of two ways. One path seeks consolation in faith... The other strives to unveil what must remain hidden." [00:39] Ben
- The lesson: Attempts to “cheat the darkness” through occult methods ultimately breed only despair and destruction.
2. The Zozo Ouija Board Case: Obsession, Possession, and Despair
- Case Study: Darren Evans (detailed narrative from [09:49] Brian – [24:33])
- Discovery of an old, handmade Ouija board with the name "Zozo" carved on the back.
- Initial curiosity quickly leads to escalating paranoia, disturbing phenomena (banging, messages, the terrified family dog), and a ruinous obsession.
- “Zozo” identifies itself as a malevolent entity, ultimately promising Darren power, calling him “the Chosen One,” and threatening his soul and family.
- Experiences of depression, hallucinations, and the tragic suicide of a friend ("Randy") apparently foretold by the board.
- The aftermath: Darren’s failed attempts at deliverance, eventual escape (possibly through divine grace), and a sobering realization that "Zozo" was not unique—hundreds worldwide reported similar encounters.
- “When Devin [Darren] went public with his story ... he was getting emails from people daily...about people that had also encountered Zozo.” [30:41] Ben
3. Theological Framing: Why the Occult Is Dangerous
- Ben and Brian explain from a Christian worldview that:
- Occult practices are not just harmless fun—they serve as “invitations” for unclean spirits to enter and torment participants ([33:00] – [34:32]).
- The medium (Ouija, tarot, etc.) is not inherently magical, but the danger is in deliberately reaching out to invite contact with spiritual evil.
- “It’s not that these objects themselves are magical. It’s that people are dumb...and they're opening the door and inviting the unclean spirit...” [33:59] Brian
- Repeated “little sins” or flirtations with dark powers accumulate, making resistance ever harder and drawing the soul deeper into spiritual peril.
4. Tarot, Playing Cards, and Fortune Telling: Another Highway to Hell
- Origin of playing cards, their association with vice and gambling, and how tarot cards evolved as a tool for divination ([45:15] Ben).
- Case Study: Jane the fortune teller in Ireland listens to a man's tarot reading confession, which ends in a murder confession. The reading eerily seems to unlock or foreshadow the darkest truth ([45:15] – [53:05]).
- Fortunetelling objects (tarot, Ouija) act as conduits for deep deceptions and perhaps even genuine spiritual communication—frequently with tragic results.
5. Attempts to Rationalize – And Why They Fail
- While skeptics attribute Ouija and tarot phenomena to subconscious ideomotor effects or cold reading, the hosts maintain that there are cases and patterns better explained by supernatural agency ([43:41] Brian – [44:32] Ben).
- “Of course, skeptics will say...maybe there's a subconscious phenomena...But there really is also dark spirits.” [44:25] Brian
6. Further Anecdotes and Warnings
- Brian’s story of a skeptical tarot reader whose “fun” Halloween reading seemingly foreshadows a death in the family ([58:53] – [64:05]).
- “She didn't believe in Tash, but...she called on Tash, and Tash will answer.” [64:05] Ben
- Ben and Brian emphasize: flippant or frivolous engagement with the occult is not safe, even for non-believers: “You can be unconvinced in the sinfulness of a thing, but if you still commit the sin, it’s still a sin.” [64:27] Ben
7. Prophecy, Discernment, and the Complexity of Miracle Claims
- Long discussion on the Christian doctrine of prophecy and its counterfeit in occult “gifts” ([75:46] Ben – [84:44] Brian).
- Case Study: Baba Vanga, the blind Bulgarian mystic who became famous for her predictions—many eerily accurate (Kursk, 9/11, death of Princess Diana). Her life blurs orthodox Christianity and occultism, raising questions about discerning true gifts of the Spirit from demonic imitation.
8. The Tragedy of Estefania Lazaro: Possession and the Cost of “Just Playing”
- Compelling “hot close” story ([88:32] Ben):
- Spanish teenager Estefania participates in a Ouija session to comfort a grieving friend; a supernatural force enters her, leading to her violent possession, madness, and sudden death.
- After her death, the family home is afflicted by apparent hauntings—until they finally escape.
- Emphasizes that occult rituals, even when undertaken out of naiveté or sympathy, can have devastating spiritual effects.
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
Wrestling With the Supernatural
- Ben: "In the realm of the unseen, unbound by time, man is a fish out of water. He will bite at any hook, no matter how unconvincing the bait." [00:39]
- Brian: "God doesn't forbid these things just because they're nothing ... the point is ... there really are unclean spirits that really do hate you and hate God." [40:03]
Deep Dangers of “Curiosity”
- Ben: “Just like Orpheus, the motives behind the longing to cheat the darkness don't matter. In the end, all such paths lead to the same place. Despair. Despair and destruction.” [09:49]
The False Lure of Secret Knowledge
- Brian: "Sin is like that. It says, hey, just take this one step ... you don't realize that when you say yes to that first step of sin, you're saying yes to everything that follows." [41:16]
Spiritual Reality vs. Skeptical Rationalization
- Brian: "What we're saying though, is that demons know... So when you have a lot of people who are obsessing over something, they will put the face that they believe you want to see onto reality to deceive you." [37:12]
The Invitation Problem
- Ben: "Once again, you have that theme of invitation ... it’s not the medium...It’s the conviction of the person who's using it and the desire that they have to commune with these evil spirits." [34:14]
On Dismissing Occult Phenomena
- Brian: "People don't have this power to manifest ex nihilo a spiritual creature that didn't exist ... demons know we believe that, and so ... they will put the face that they believe you want to see onto reality to deceive you." [37:12]
The Tragedy of the Occult
- Ben: "These things are things that we have to be very careful about. And as Christians, we should be calling out the darkness that is very much present in the Ouija board, tarot card stuff." [43:23]
Timestamps for Key Segments
- 00:39 – Orpheus & the fear of darkness; allegory for forbidden knowledge
- 09:49 – Darren Evans and "Zozo": the descent into obsession
- 30:41 – The global reach of Zozo and the phenomenon of distributed occult contact
- 33:00 - 34:32 – The “invitation” principle in spiritual oppression
- 39:34 – The theological reality of unclean spirits & repeated spiritual phenomena
- 43:41 – 44:32 – Explaining what a Ouija board actually is, and why skeptics miss the point
- 45:15 – History of cards and rise of tarot as divination tool
- 53:05 – Reflections on playing cards, tarot, and "solving murders"
- 58:53 – 64:05 – Brian’s story of the skeptical tarot reading gone tragically wrong
- 75:46 – 84:44 – Baba Vanga: where do prophecy, miracle, and occult meet?
- 88:32 – End – The terrifying death of Estefania Lazaro: when the occult invitation is accepted in ignorance
Takeaways & Warnings
- Engaging with ritual and occult tools—Ouija, tarot, fortune telling—opens the door to spiritual harm, regardless of intentions or skepticism.
- Genuine spiritual evil exists, and its preferred tactic is a gradual “invitation” strategy that escalates into full-on destruction.
- Attempting to “just play” with forbidden knowledge is both spiritually and, often, materially disastrous.
- Christian faith offers hope not by lifting the veil out of curiosity, but by trusting in Christ, whose victory over death makes the darkness bearable—and safe to leave in God’s hands.
Conclusion
Ben and Brian’s inimitable blend of banter, history, and robust theology resound with a single refrain: the occult is not a game, but a gateway. Their stories, whether ancient or recent, hammer home the view that humans are spiritual creatures in a spiritual world, and attempts to know too much—or gain power unlawfully—invite overwhelming darkness. The only safe way through the unknown, they insist, is the light of faith.
For anyone drawn to the “mysteries” of the unseen world, the episode is a clear and chilling warning: The world is not just stuff. Do not lightly flirt with the infernal.