Podcast Summary: Bring More Discipline to Your Decision-Making
Podcast: HBR On Leadership
Host: Kurt Nickish (HBR)
Guest: Corey Phelps (Dean, Penn State's College of Business)
Release Date: December 3, 2025
Episode Overview
This episode explores why leaders—even experienced ones—commonly default to fast, biased solutions when faced with complex problems, and how bringing more discipline and structure to decision-making can unlock better outcomes. Corey Phelps, co-author of Cracked: How to Solve Big Problems and Sell Solutions Like Top Strategy Consultants, discusses the psychology of problem solving, key cognitive traps, and a four-step "4S" method to improve rigor and results. The episode is filled with real-world examples, insightful frameworks, and practical guidance for leaders seeking to sharpen their problem-solving skills.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
The Need for Slowing Down
- Leaders Rushing to Solutions
- Phelps notes that, under pressure, leaders almost instinctively leap to solutions, often bypassing crucial problem definition and analysis steps.
- This tendency is rooted in natural cognitive biases and is exacerbated within organizations prioritizing speed and efficiency.
- Quote (Phelps, 01:52):
“It's very much a result [of] how our brains have evolved... But it's my favorite [bias] because we all do it, and especially... in organizations... it creates enormous, I would say, incentive to say, I don't have time to carefully define and analyze the problem. I got to get a solution.”
Cognitive Biases in Problem Solving
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Jumping to Solutions / System 1 Thinking
- Drawing on Kahneman’s model from Thinking, Fast and Slow, Phelps urges moving from automatic, rapid-fire 'System 1' thinking to the more deliberate 'System 2.'
- Quote (Phelps, 02:19):
“Our minds are essentially hardwired to think fast... we can then use that story to jump very quickly to a solution that we just know will work. And if we just were able to move from that ... to system two thinking... we would be able to better understand the problem that we're trying to solve.”
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Expertise Trap
- Managers often see problems through the lens of their own expertise; e.g., if you’re a finance expert, every problem might look like a financial one.
- References Maslow's Law of the Instrument: “If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail” (04:07–04:34).
- The solution: collaboration and awareness of one's limitations.
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Analogical Reasoning Trap
- Applying past solutions to superficially similar problems can lead to failure if the underlying causes differ.
- Quote (Phelps, 05:17):
“...we can make what cognitive psychologists call surface level analogies... if we dug a little bit deeper, the two problems actually aren't much alike at all in terms of their underlying causes.”
Case Study: Ron Johnson and JCPenney
- Application of Past Solutions Gone Wrong
- Johnson, who led the success of Apple Stores, applied the same strategies at JCPenney without adequate testing or adaptation, leading to failure.
- Quote (Phelps, 08:36):
“What worked at Apple, he assumed would work at JCPenney. And the critical thing [...] he missed is that JCPenney customers are very different from Apple Store customers. In fact, JCPenney customers love the discount. They love the thrill of hunting for a deal...” - Illustrates the danger of surface-level analogies and assumptions.
The 4S Method: Structuring the Path to Better Decisions
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Overview of the Model (10:17)
- State the Problem
- Define clearly what problem you’re trying to solve, including symptoms, constraints, stakeholders, and success criteria.
- Don’t rush this step or the rest will falter.
- Quote (Phelps, 10:34):
“Stating the problem is fundamentally about defining what the problem is that you are attempting to solve.”
- Structure the Problem
- Identify and analyze potential causes; use tools for systematic analysis.
- Solve the Problem
- Generate and test solutions based on a deep understanding of root causes.
- Beware of jumping straight to this stage before proper groundwork.
- Sell the Solution
- Persuade stakeholders; solutions rarely succeed unless others buy in.
- Recognize that inventing a solution isn’t enough without organizational support.
- State the Problem
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On Jumping to 'Solve'
- Many people skip 'state' and 'structure' to rush to brainstorming, which can lead to poorly defined or ineffective outcomes.
- Quote (Phelps, 12:13):
“...we want to jump right into solutioning because people love to talk about their ideas that are going to fix the problem.”
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Challenges in Solution Generation
- People self-censor ideas due to fears about feasibility or acceptability.
- Importance of using clear criteria: feasibility, desirability, and business attractiveness.
When to Use Which Problem-Solving Methods
- Analytic (4S) vs. Design Thinking (14:44)
- Analytic models work well when causes are known; design thinking is valuable in “unknown unknowns.”
- Design thinking: Immerse with users/affected groups to frame problems, then move to solutions.
- Quote (Phelps, 16:03):
“This is where design thinking can be quite valuable... let's actually develop a theory and then we'll use our new understanding... to move into the solution generation phase.”
Demonstrating Problem-Solving Skill as a Leader
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How to Show You’re a Good Problem-Solver (16:55)
- Prove it with examples of real solutions you’ve created and explain your methodology.
- Consulting interviews (e.g., McKinsey) test logical process and use of tools—this approach works everywhere.
- Quote (Phelps, 18:56):
“Show your thinking, show your process... show the questions you ask.”
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Rarity and Value in the Job Market
- Recruiters consistently seek 'problem solvers'; it remains one of the most valuable yet hard-to-find skills.
- The 4S provides anyone—not just MBAs—a toolkit for addressing this need.
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
- “If the only tool that you have in your toolkit is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.” — Corey Phelps, paraphrasing Maslow (04:19)
- [On solution brainstorming:] “We tend to censor the solutions that we come up with. ...We have very little understanding of what the problem is that we're trying to solve...” — Corey Phelps (13:23)
- “What worked at Apple he assumed would work at JCPenney... In fact, JCPenney customers love the discount. They love the thrill of hunting for a deal...” — Corey Phelps (08:36)
- “At the end of the day, the proof is in the pudding. In other words, can you point to successful solutions that you've come up with, solutions that have actually been effective in solving a problem?” — Corey Phelps (17:29)
- “Show your thinking, show your process. Absolutely. Show the questions you ask.” — Corey Phelps (18:56)
Important Timestamps
- 01:24 — Introduction to cognitive biases and problem-solving traps
- 04:07 — The "expertise trap" and Maslow's Law of the Instrument
- 05:10 — The pitfalls of analogical reasoning
- 06:41 — JC Penney case study begins
- 10:17 — Introduction to the 4S method
- 12:07 — Why solution generation is so seductive and risky
- 14:44 — Comparing analytic problem-solving and design thinking
- 16:55 — How to signal and demonstrate problem-solving skills
- 18:56 — What recruiters look for: process, questioning, and results
Conclusion
The episode convincingly argues that effective leadership in problem-solving is not about quick fixes or brute intelligence—it's about method, humility, and discipline. By moving past ingrained biases, resisting the lure of premature solutions, and embracing structured methods like the 4S process (with openness to approaches like design thinking when appropriate), leaders can consistently craft better decisions and drive stronger outcomes for their teams and organizations.
Whether you're leading a team or aiming for your next career move, showing your disciplined problem-solving process is now more prized than ever.