Podcast Summary: HBR On Leadership

Episode: Change How Your Colleagues See You

Date: September 3, 2025
Host: Harvard Business Review (Amanda Kersey, Alison Beard, Dan McGinn)
Guest: Dorie Clark, Consultant & Author

Overview

In this episode, the hosts explore the art of professional rebranding: how to intentionally change how others perceive you at work—whether it's about being seen as a leader, an expert, or simply breaking out of an old reputation. Consultant and author Dorie Clark shares practical strategies, real-world examples, and research-backed insights to help listeners reshape their workplace image without losing what makes them unique.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Rebranding Your Workplace Image

• Dorie Clark's Reinvention Journey

  • Dorie shares her own "ignominious failure" that forced her to reinvent herself after being laid off from her first job in journalism. She later pivoted into communications for political campaigns, and then consultancy.
    • Quote: "I got laid off from my first job. So I was forced to reinvent myself." — Dorie Clark [01:32]

• Why People Want to Change Their Brand

  • It's common for professionals to feel a gap between how they’re perceived and where they want to be, whether striving for leadership or dreaming of a different field.
    • Quote: "Usually for most people, there is a gap between where they are now and where they want to be. They need to be pursued a little bit differently." — Dorie Clark [02:08]

2. Advice: How Can I Change Colleagues' Perceptions Without Losing Myself? [03:34]

• Making Change Visible

  • Subtle shifts in behavior often go unnoticed; you need to “telegraph” your new approach directly.
    • Quote: "It might seem huge to this woman, but it's probably a really subtle shift to her colleagues." — Dorie Clark [03:34]
    • Recommendation: Explicitly name your intentions to others (e.g. “I'm working on being less sarcastic”).

• Appropriate Use of Personality & Humor

  • Identify in which circumstances to express your humor or rowdy side, and when to dial it down for professionalism.
    • Research Highlight: In lower-power positions, failed humor carries greater penalties than when used by leaders (referencing Alison Wood Brooks’s research) [06:32].

• Soliciting Honest Feedback

  • Create a personal focus group or ask trusted colleagues two questions: "What's the perception of me?" and "What could I do differently?"
    • Quote: "Gathering five people… asking them point blank… and just be ready to hear the unvarnished truth." — Alison Beard [08:14]
    • Related Exercise: Use a third-party moderator to run your “personal focus group” (from Dorie’s book, Reinventing You).

• Showcasing Expertise and Authority

  • Post insights publicly (e.g. LinkedIn posts, internal presentations) to establish yourself as a subject matter expert.
    • Quote: "Signing up to do sessions at a conference or even a lunch and learn... or... writing blog posts... That can really begin to mark you as a leader." — Dorie Clark [09:34]

• Demonstrating Leadership Qualities

  • Plan contributions to meetings where influential people are present: show vision, strategic thinking, and highlight team accomplishments.

• Summary of Steps

  • Verify the actual source of reputation issues (humor or something else).
  • Gather candid feedback.
  • Explicitly communicate your intent to grow as a leader.
  • Make deliberate but manageable behavior adjustments.
  • Prepare thoroughly for meetings and claim thought-leadership opportunities.

3. Advice: Should I Take a Risky Cross-Functional Role at Work? [13:52]

• Specialist vs. Generalist Dilemma

  • Moving out of a clearly defined specialty (e.g. product management) makes for a less linear career path but can ultimately prepare you for bigger leadership roles.
    • Quote: "As a generalist, it's a lot blurrier and it's challenging." — Dorie Clark [15:14]

• Risk Assessment

  • Evaluate your personal and financial risk tolerance; remember, disengagement itself is a career risk.

• Building Your Case for the Role Swap

  • Don’t apologize for your background—instead, emphasize how your expertise adds unique value to the new function.
    • Quote: "You need to lead with your competitive advantage, which is… the thing that you don't have in this department is a deep knowledge of product. I have it. Here's how it can add value." — Dorie Clark [17:54]

• Communicating Career Leaps Internally

  • Results speak louder than organizational precedent; if you deliver, resistance will lessen over time.

• Patience with Nonlinear Careers

  • Generalists need patience for others to understand their value and for nontraditional career moves to pay off.
    • Quote: "You're going to have to withstand a little bit of skepticism sometimes and it may frankly take you a little bit longer to get where you want to go." — Dorie Clark [19:33]

• Panel’s Conclusion

  • The hosts unanimously encourage the leap for intellectual fulfillment and broader future leadership qualifications, along with strong messaging to explain the move internally and externally.

4. Advice: Breaking Out of the “Good Worker” Reputation in a Competitive Law Firm [21:41]

• The Challenge for Women in Rebranding

  • It can be especially tough for women to walk the tightrope between being seen as competent and “likable.”

• Building External Credibility

  • Leverage your reputation outside the organization; testimonials and recognition from clients or the wider industry can raise your profile internally.

• Being Open about Ambition

  • Articulate your leadership ambitions openly, as “the mark of a leader is the person who raises their hands and says, I want to be a leader.”
    • Quote: "Step one is expressing an interest in it. It’s not self-evident. She needs to step up and let people know." — Dorie Clark [25:10]

• The Likability-Competence Matrix

  • Map relationships with key colleagues (using a color-coded chart), aiming to be both liked and respected by as many as possible.
    • Quote: "A goal that she could have is to turn as many of her key colleagues green on the chart as possible." — Dorie Clark [25:43]

• Demonstrate Indispensability

  • Go beyond delivering competent results—aim to be seen as indispensable to the firm’s success.

• Timeline for Rebranding

  • Meaningful perception shifts may take 2–3 years; perseverance is critical.
    • Quote: "It takes typically between two to three years to actually start to see any difference." — Dorie Clark [28:51]

• When to Consider a Job Change

  • If the environment is hostile, or if there is little chance of increased recognition, jumping to a new firm may be the most effective way to reset your personal brand.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Telegraphed Change:
  "Just by stating it, by calling it out. That's how you get the perception to change much faster."
  — Dorie Clark [04:04]

• On Using Humor in Leadership:
  "If you're in a lower power position in a workplace and you tell a joke and it comes off wrong, the penalties for that can be much more significant."
  — Dan McGinn [06:32]

• On Generalists' Career Arcs:
  "There's a kind of patience that is required because other people are not necessarily going to get it at first."
  — Dorie Clark [19:33]

• On Publicizing Leadership Aspirations:
  "Step one is expressing an interest in it. It's not self evident. She needs to step up and let people know."
  — Dorie Clark [25:10]

• On the Time Rebranding Takes:
  "Most people during that two to three year period just give up because they get busy, they lose faith. But if you keep at it... you are able to build a huge competitive moat."
  — Dorie Clark [28:51]

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Dorie Clark’s Career Reinvention Story: [01:32]
• First Listener Question—Changing Perceptions: [03:34]
• Telegraphing Change & Getting Feedback: [04:04]–[08:42]
• Demonstrating Expertise/Public Content: [09:34]
• Women and Leadership Rebranding Challenges: [23:39]–[24:38]
• The Color-Coded Network Map: [25:43]
• Timeline for Rebranding Success: [28:51]

Actionable Strategies (Episode Recap)

• Identify and call out the changes in behavior you are making (“telegraph” your shift).
• Gather candid feedback via trusted colleagues or a structured “personal focus group.”
• Use public platforms (internal or external) to share expertise and be seen as a thought leader.
• Know your audience and modulate the use of personality traits (such as humor) depending on context and your power in the organization.
• For career moves, evaluate risk tolerance, but recognize that engagement and learning can outweigh the risk of stagnation.
• For women especially, blend competence, likability, and a demonstrated ambition for leadership, both within and outside the organization.
• Remember: meaningful perception change takes deliberate, sustained effort over years—not weeks or months.

“At its heart, what a campaign is, is this: it's building relationships with people so that they know who you are, they know what you're good at, and can vouch for you as you're coming up for that promotion.”
— Dorie Clark [27:22]

For further reading and more actionable advice, consult Dorie Clark's work, especially her book Reinventing You.