How to Make Fractional Leadership Work

Summary

Podcast Summary: HBR On Leadership - "How to Make Fractional Leadership Work"

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Introduction

In the August 12, 2025 episode of HBR On Leadership, hosted by Harvard Business Review's Amanda Kersey and Kurt Nickish, the conversation delves into the burgeoning trend of fractional leadership. As organizations navigate growth without the resources to hire full-time executives, fractional leadership emerges as a viable alternative. The episode features insightful discussions with Tomoko Yokoi, a researcher and advisor at the Tonomous Global Center for Digital and AI Transformation at IMD Business School, and Amy Bonsal, founder of Kollective and a seasoned fractional Chief Product Officer.

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Understanding Fractional Leadership

Fractional leadership refers to experienced executives who dedicate a portion of their time to multiple organizations, offering expertise without the commitment of a full-time role. Kurt Nickish introduces the concept:

“If you're not familiar with this idea, it's where leaders who might otherwise serve as full-time C-suite executives instead offer their skills to multiple organizations.” (01:02)

Tomoko Yokoi expresses enthusiasm for the flexibility fractional leadership offers:

“I just love how people are starting to actively and intentionally think about how they want to work... they actually want some flexibility in the types of work they do.” (02:48)

Amy Bonsal highlights the dual advantage of fractional roles—combining the accelerated learning of consultancy with the ownership and camaraderie of in-house positions:

“Fractional leadership offers to me is the ability to combine both of those things... belonging to a leadership team while working with multiple companies.” (03:10)

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Growth and Trends in Fractional Leadership

The trend of fractional leadership has seen exponential growth, with over 110,000 individuals on LinkedIn identifying as fractional leaders in 2024, up from just 2,000 two years prior. Amy Bonsal attributes this surge to two primary factors:

1. Post-Pandemic Flexibility: The COVID-19 pandemic fundamentally changed work dynamics, normalizing remote work and emphasizing the importance of flexibility.

   “Covid made a huge difference... the pandemic really normalized the idea of working from anywhere and working remotely.” (05:59)

2. Changing Work Preferences: A growing number of professionals seek flexible work arrangements that allow them to balance multiple engagements.

Tomoko Yokoi adds that digital technologies enable fractional leaders to work remotely from anywhere, further facilitating this trend:

“With digital technologies and fractional, it would allow her to work from anywhere around the world.” (06:59)

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Benefits of Fractional Leadership

Fractional leaders bring a wealth of experience and specialized skills to organizations, particularly startups and small to medium-sized businesses (SMBs). Key benefits include:

• Expertise on Demand: Access to seasoned executives without the financial burden of a full-time salary.

• Scalable Impact: Leaders can contribute to multiple organizations simultaneously, accelerating their learning and enhancing their effectiveness.

  “As a fractional leader, I am very much a part of a leadership team, but also I can be in that position for more than one company at a time.” (04:09)

• Skill Development: Fractional leaders often help build internal capabilities, empowering in-house teams to sustain growth post-engagement.

Amy shares a specific example:

“I helped an early-stage startup with their product roadmap and gave the founder the skills to continue refining the product on their own.” (10:16)

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Challenges of Fractional Leadership

Despite its advantages, fractional leadership presents certain challenges:

• Trust and Commitment: Organizations may struggle with trusting leaders who are not fully dedicated.

  “Can I trust that they have my best interest at heart if they are not full-time dedicated to my company?” (14:52)

• Context Switching: Fractional leaders juggle multiple clients, which can dilute their focus and effectiveness if not managed properly.

Tomoko Yokoi shares a cautionary tale:

“A business owner felt that her fractional marketing executive was applying generic strategies without fully understanding her unique context.” (11:11)

• Communication and Accountability: Ensuring clear communication and maintaining accountability can be more complex with part-time leaders.

  “Clear communication seems to be a big criteria for how they manage their time.” (15:30)

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Implementing Fractional Leadership in Organizations

For organizations considering fractional leadership, the following steps are recommended:

1. Identify Specific Needs: Shift focus from roles to the actual work that needs to be accomplished.

   “Figure out what's the work that needs to be done rather than what is the role we need to hire for.” (16:23)

2. Evaluate Fit and Expertise: Select fractional leaders with specialized experience relevant to your business challenges.

   “You want someone who's as comfortable getting in and doing tactical work as being a strategic partner.” (19:00)

3. Establish Clear Boundaries and Expectations: Define the scope of work and maintain regular check-ins to ensure alignment.

   Amy provides a practical approach:

   “Sit down and say here are the realms in which I will support... have an accountability session with the CEO once a week.” (22:09)

4. Integrate Seamlessly: Treat fractional leaders as integral parts of the leadership team, ensuring they are included in key meetings and organizational processes.

   “Include them in the key leadership touchpoints, much like you would do for a full-time hire.” (20:40)

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Advice for Fractional Leaders

Transitioning to a fractional role requires both strategic planning and adaptability:

• Gradual Transition: Start with manageable commitments to build confidence and establish effective working relationships.

  “Don't try and go all in all at once... it allows you time to set up an LLC or whatever you might need.” (25:18)

• Define Your Niche: Clearly identify your strengths and how you can add the most value to organizations.

  “Find what you're really good at and what stage of an organization's growth you can best help.” (23:30)

• Leverage Community Resources: Engage with communities and educational programs to navigate the nuances of fractional work.

  “There are communities like Fractionals United and educational programs like Voyager University.” (26:34)

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Future of Fractional Leadership

To make fractional leadership more mainstream, companies and leaders need to embrace several shifts:

• Increased Awareness: Organizations must recognize the value and opportunities presented by fractional leaders.

  “Simply awareness is key... seeing it as an opportunity to access leadership that otherwise you couldn't afford.” (27:20)

• Long-Term Human Resource Strategy: Adapt HR policies to accommodate flexible work arrangements, ensuring the retention of senior expertise.

  Tomoko Yokoi emphasizes:

  “Considering long-term human resource policies and retaining senior executive talent through alternative working practices.” (27:58)

• Cultural Mindset Shift: Move away from traditional full-time models to more flexible, dynamic leadership structures.

  “Adopting a very different mindset towards human resources and talent management.” (28:30)

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Conclusion

The episode of HBR On Leadership provides a comprehensive exploration of fractional leadership, highlighting its potential to democratize access to senior talent and support organizational growth. While challenges such as trust and context switching exist, strategic implementation and clear communication can mitigate these issues. As the workforce continues to evolve, fractional leadership stands out as a flexible, scalable solution for modern businesses seeking expert guidance without the constraints of traditional full-time roles.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Tomoko Yokoi: “I just love how people are starting to actively and intentionally think about how they want to work...” (02:48)
• Amy Bonsal: “I am very much a part of a leadership team, but also I can be in that position for more than one company at a time.” (04:09)
• Amy Bonsal: “Fractional leadership offers to me is the ability to combine both of those things...” (03:10)
• Amy Bonsal: “Can I trust that they have my best interest at heart if they are not full-time dedicated to my company?” (14:52)
• Tomoko Yokoi: “A business owner felt that her fractional marketing executive was applying generic strategies...” (11:11)
• Amy Bonsal: “Don't try and go all in all at once... it allows you time to set up an LLC...” (25:18)
• Tomoko Yokoi: “Considering long-term human resource policies and retaining senior executive talent...” (27:58)

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Final Thoughts

This episode sheds light on how fractional leadership can be a strategic asset for businesses looking to scale efficiently while retaining access to top-tier executive talent. By understanding the dynamics, benefits, and challenges, organizations can make informed decisions on integrating fractional leaders into their growth strategies.

Transcript

[Kurt Nickish]

AI is transforming the world. And it starts with the right compute. ARM is the AI compute platform trusted by global leaders, proudly NASDAQ listed. Built for the future. Visit arm.com discover.

[Amanda Kersey]

Welcome to HBR and Leadership. Case studies and conversations with the world's top business and management experts. Experts hand selected to help you unlock the best in those around you. I'm HBR Senior Editor and Producer Amanda Kersey. If you're leading a growing organization but can't justify the cost of another full time executive, there's another way. In this 2024 episode of HBR's IdeaCast, host Kurt Nickish speaks with two experts about a fast growing alternative, fractional leadership.

[Kurt Nickish]

If you're not familiar with this idea, it's where leaders who might otherwise serve as full time C suite executives instead offer their skills to multiple organizations. They dedicate only a fraction of their time, a portion of their time, to each one. Can't afford a chief marketing officer or don't need one full time? Hire a part time one. But how do you know if this approach is right for your company? What challenges do you need to anticipate to get the most out of working with a fractional executive? And if you're a senior leader, how do you know if a fractional role could be a good fit for you? Our guests today are experts on this growing practice. Their combined research and practical experience will help us understand how fractional leadership actually works and whether it's right for you and your organization. Tomoko Yokoi is a researcher and advisor at the Tonomous Global center for Digital and AI Transformation at IMD Business School. She studies the impact of emerging technologies on organizations and work. And Amy Bonsal is the founder of Kollective and a former leader at IDO and Old Navy, and she currently works as a fractional Chief Product Officer with several organizations. Together they wrote the HBR How Part Time Senior Leaders Can Help youp Business. Tomoko, thanks for coming on the show.

[Tomoko Yokoi]

Thank you so much.

[Kurt Nickish]

And Amy, thanks for being here.

[Amy Bonsal]

Thank you, thank you. We're so glad to be here.

[Kurt Nickish]

Amy, you currently work as a fractional Chief Product officer. And Tomoko, your research focuses on how this practice works kind of as an organizational system. I want to start by asking what drew each of you to this practice.

[Tomoko Yokoi]

I just love how people are starting to actively and intentionally think about how they want to work and that they actually want some flexibility in the types of work they do and they're trying to do something about. And I think that's what I find so Interesting about this phenomenon.

[Kurt Nickish]

Yeah. Amy, what about you?

[Amy Bonsal]

What really drew me to this was I spent most of my career as a consultant. And what I appreciated about being a consultant was I was able to accelerate my learning and my offer to my clients because I was working with multiple companies on similar challenges. And that really allowed me to make a bigger difference faster. And then I went in house. And what I enjoyed about being in house was the sense of ownership that I had, the sense of camaraderie I had within the leadership team. And what fractional leadership offers to me is the ability to combine both of those things. So as a fractional leader, I am very much a part of a leadership team, but also I can be in that position for more than one company at a time, which allows me to accelerate my learning and give that right back to my clients.

[Kurt Nickish]

Yeah, it sounds like you can kind of scale your impact, but also draw boundaries too.

[Amy Bonsal]

Absolutely. And then just really, you know, one of the things that you really do miss as a consultant is the sense of like, you know, this is. I am a part of this and this is a part of me. And you feel that as a fractional leader as well.

[Kurt Nickish]

Can we talk just about the name for a moment? It sounds like a nice branding for part time or temp work even.

[Tomoko Yokoi]

It's. I think it's a fantastic marketing word. And I think because of this word, the movement has sort of latched on and resonated with a lot of people. And those in the fractional community have actually said because of this term of fractional, it's just been able to be adopted because it just resonated so well with many people.

[Kurt Nickish]

Yeah. And the term part time is just tough branding because it sounds non committal or something.

[Amy Bonsal]

Yeah, I think that's true. And then there's also something that part time misses that I think fractional really nails on the head. To me, part time implies a sense of sort of very boundaried connection to the organization. Monday, Wednesday, Friday, or whatever it is.

[Kurt Nickish]

Yeah, Set time. Sure.

[Amy Bonsal]

Set times and fractional. The idea is the company should not know that you're fractional. They should feel that you're there in all of the key moments. And so as a fractional leader, that means your context switching a lot more. But to the company, they get this real benefit of feeling like they have a full time person. And that's also why the part time moniker doesn't quite fit.

[Kurt Nickish]

So it's been growing. Right. You note in your article that more than 110,000 individuals on LinkedIn this year identify themselves as fractional leaders. It was just 2000 two years ago. Why is it accelerating so quickly?

[Amy Bonsal]

I think that Covid made a huge difference in two areas. One is, I believe, that the pandemic was a reckoning for many of us. Many people rethought what they really wanted out of life, and this idea of having greater flexibility, I think really resonated. But also, the pandemic really normalized the idea of working from anywhere and working remotely. And that fundamentally suits fractional leadership. You want to be there at the moments that you need to for each team that you're working with. And so that may mean Tuesday at 10, you're with Team A, and Tuesday at 11, you're with Team B, which would be entirely impossible if you needed to be in person for both of those.

[Kurt Nickish]

I'm just curious, Do a lot of fractional leaders work remotely? Do they actually work in person? How does that practically work? And is that also kind of something holding the trend back?

[Tomoko Yokoi]

Most of the executives we've spoken to are working remotely. In fact, I spoke with a woman who is currently looking into moving to Europe from the United States, because with digital technologies and fractional, it would allow her to work from anywhere around the world.

[Amy Bonsal]

I would say. I know some people who definitely work in person as well, in a fractional capacity. And I think to your point, Kurt, that means they're geographically bound. I'm in the Tampa area. I know people who work fractionally in the Tampa area. I think the bigger question in my mind is, what is the future of remote work, and how does it impact this? I think it speaks to one of the current potential gatekeepers or things that holds this back. Is companies leaders being more comfortable with people being in person can constrain their ability to be open to the possibility of a fractional leader.

[Tomoko Yokoi]

Yeah. On the other hand, as the fractional movement starts to accelerate, given that there's so many people who are wanting to become fractionals now, then you might have that possibility where become so diffused and well spread out that then in those large cities, there will actually be people geographically already there. So they may not have to be remote working. But I think at the same time, the fractional executives themselves rely on the remote work needs to be there to some extent so they can have the possibility to work with three or four companies at the same time. It's connected in some ways, I would imagine.

[Kurt Nickish]

Yeah. So who are these fractional leaders? Like, what do we know about their experience, their backgrounds, and why they're seeking These less traditional roles.

[Tomoko Yokoi]

So many of the fractional executives that we've spoken to have about 20 to 30 years of experience. They also position themselves as advisors to the C suite and that they are also part of the C suite. But in order to be a part of a C suite in any organization, you have to be able to bring that experience along and be part of that C suite. So it's not a position that we've seen for early career stage people.

[Kurt Nickish]

And what kind of companies are trying out fractional leadership?

[Amy Bonsal]

Definitely it's startups and SMB, small and medium sized businesses. To some extent it might be business units of bigger organizations. The only place we really saw it extend into much larger organizations and I have a hypothesis this will change. But the only place we saw that was in new to organization roles. So maybe it's an AI role or an innovation role if they haven't particularly had that in the past, or a data management role or something where the organization knows that they want that kind of support but isn't frankly ready to handle a full time leader in that capacity.

[Kurt Nickish]

Do you have any specific examples of how companies are employing fractional leaders that you could share?

[Amy Bonsal]

I had the opportunity to work for an early stage startup and to really help them as they were ironing out what their product roadmap was and what, what exactly their product would offer. And what felt very beneficial from the founder's perspective was that I was working with him and giving him the skill set he needed, both to answer that question, but also to be able to continue. Product is an evolution you're constantly refining, learning, et cetera. And so I gave him both the answer to that question, but also the skills to be able to continue to go off and do that on his own. And I think that's a uniqueness of a fractional role in that you can come in and solve a problem quickly, but also build internal strengths, whether it's in the CEO or a team that you leave behind.

[Tomoko Yokoi]

Yeah, I have a case. We actually interviewed a person, a business owner who had hired a fractional and she shared with us a story about a situation that actually did not go well. And one of the reasons why she felt that the fractional, it was a marketing executive that she had hired, it didn't go well, was that she felt that the fractional executive was coming in and just applying something that she was just using either from her past experience or from past clients or even parallel, parallel clients as well. And she felt that it wasn't really solving the problem that she had as a business owner that provides a couple of different lessons. Right. I think on one hand the fractional executive, they do have, they do bring this knowledge and wealth from other experiences. But at the same time it's the question of how much can you shift and switch between your different clients. And in this particular case that the business owner was telling us was that she felt that that fractional executive didn't switch into the context of what she needed.

[Kurt Nickish]

Got it. Yeah.

[Tomoko Yokoi]

And I think one of the other things she had described in that example was that she felt that it was very transactional. And of course when the fractional executive only has a partial, a fractional amount of time, there is that possibility that it could become transactional in order to get the deliverable done. But at the same time, one has to work together to make sure that it doesn't come off as being transactional or that you're cutting pasting from other jobs.

[Kurt Nickish]

Both sides need to have that collaborative mindset.

[Tomoko Yokoi]

Yep.

[Kurt Nickish]

And what are we learning so far about where this works best? Like for instance, can this work for any type of role at any company?

[Tomoko Yokoi]

Yeah, I think it depends. Right. I think we've seen it in the finance and accounting stages for sure. But we've spoken to fractional executives from all walks of life. Marketing product as Amy is a chief product officer and also as a chief operating also officer and also as human resources. One of the other area. Some additional companies, organizations that are interested in fractionals which we've heard of are also venture capitalists and also nonprofits companies or organizations that may not have the, the, the Runway or the assets to be able to pay a senior executive at a full time rate.

[Amy Bonsal]

The reason it started with CFOs is because as a company is growing, the founder or the leadership team is looking at where do they need complementary skills, what things do they want to offload for themselves. And finance is almost always one of those things we don't want to do any longer than we have to. But I think that's a nice and instructional way to think about like how a leader might be bringing on fractional leaders is really looking at what skill sets do they know someone else can do better than them as they grow.

[Kurt Nickish]

So the benefits for companies are clear. Like fractional leaders can bring in some new ideas. They have this expertise and this approach can kind of in some ways democratize access to senior talent for smaller orgs or ones that are growing and just need a certain amount of expertise for a certain amount of time. What are the downsides of Fractional leadership.

[Amy Bonsal]

I think one thing especially startup founders struggle with is this idea that someone I am trusting to help me grow my organization has multiple demands, multiple expectations, multiple polls on their time.

[Kurt Nickish]

They might have three different calendars.

[Amy Bonsal]

Exactly. And I think what I've heard from startup leaders is this idea of like, can I trust someone? Can I trust that they have my best interest at heart if they are not full time dedicated to my company?

[Tomoko Yokoi]

Yeah, I think when we speak to some of these fractional executives, they have it. The clear communication seems to be a big criteria for how they manage their time. And I think a lot of the executives, they always said that they are like a lifeline for some of the CEOs they work with. So if the CEO needs them and they need their advice, they're on the, they're on the telephone immediately.

[Kurt Nickish]

Got it. Communication is important. Accountability is important. And because this is a new and growing management practice, it's, you know, the playbook isn't totally written yet.

[Amy Bonsal]

Absolutely.

[Tomoko Yokoi]

Yep. For sure.

[Kurt Nickish]

Okay, so let's turn to advice. So let's say you're an organization that's fractionally curious. How do you know if you could benefit from having a fractional leader? Like, what questions should you be asking to prepare yourself for the decision?

[Tomoko Yokoi]

Yeah, I think the, the, probably the first one is the most important, where you really have to figure out what's the work that needs to be done rather than what is the role we need to hire for. And that's a big mind shift change for a lot of organizations because organizations are used to just hiring for a role and then just making sure that that role can cover whatever needs that may be. But with fractional, one has to think about what exactly is the work to be done and to think about that very intentionally in the beginning. And then once that has been defined, it would be much easier to define that fractional engagement.

[Kurt Nickish]

Got it. Because it might. If they define that as a lot of work, they may need that full time leader.

[Tomoko Yokoi]

That's right.

[Amy Bonsal]

And just to pick up on your question there, Kurt, in terms of what question should you ask yourself before you even know? I think it's about is there an area of business that would help in your growth if you could accelerate it? If you could put an expert into that area? Maybe it's marketing, maybe it's product, maybe it is finance. If you had expertise in that area, would it help accelerate your business growth? And I think that that can be a very business centered way to frame it up.

[Kurt Nickish]

So let's say my company has answered those questions and we decide to hire a fractional chief marketing officer. For instance. How do I find good candidates? Is there a fractional worker agency to go to?

[Amy Bonsal]

More than one already?

[Kurt Nickish]

Okay.

[Amy Bonsal]

There are so many. In fact, we interviewed someone for the article in January who was just starting a fractional brokerage.

[Kurt Nickish]

Oh, okay, so you got brokers, fractional headhunters.

[Amy Bonsal]

Exactly.

[Tomoko Yokoi]

That's right.

[Amy Bonsal]

And when I wrote to him, I think it was last month and had said, hey, can I send you someone to speak to? He said, I'm. I'm pulling in a thousand people per month. I can't speak to everyone anymore individually.

[Kurt Nickish]

Wow.

[Amy Bonsal]

And so that just speaks to the acceleration of people who are craving this kind of work and really to the. The imbalance of supply and demand. Right now there are a lot of leaders who would like to be fractional leaders and far fewer companies who are ready and excited about this opportunity at the moment. We think that's changing.

[Kurt Nickish]

So let's say you go out and find some candidates. How do you choose? What are the criteria different?

[Amy Bonsal]

I would say two things. One is it's really helpful to have someone who's grown up in the field of marketing versus someone who has, say, grown up in operations and switched to marketing or something like that. The reason for this is that often what you're asking a chief, a fractional chief marketing officer or fractional anyone to do is to both be your strategic partner and your tactical sleeves rolled up partner. So you want someone who's as comfortable sort of getting in and doing some of the social media, for instance, as you are someone who can be a strategic partner to you. Number two, I would say you want to know that that person has experience in context switching. So consultants are classically trained in this. Other people might have those experiences from other aspects of their lives or ways of working, but you want to know that they can switch in and out really easily because that will benefit you as a leader.

[Tomoko Yokoi]

And I think it is important to be able to ask some questions about how they might work if they're working part time or in a fractional basis, and to also ask questions about their expectations about the role's longevity. Because of course, what defines a fractional role is that it may not be a permanent role. So with that, you can really sort of dig into the motivation of why they're applying for that role.

[Kurt Nickish]

All right, so finally, after you found someone that you want to hire, how should you integrate them into the organization and make sure there's accountability and structure for their work? Like what's the process that you recommend here?

[Amy Bonsal]

This is probably one of the most delicate pieces of this actually. And I think it comes back to the sort of the definition of what this is. A fractional leader ought to be considered a part of your leadership team. Number one, include them in the key leadership touch points, much like you would do for a full time hire. Make sure that they have the opportunity to build relationships with everyone in the organization that they need to work with, etc. But really part of the fractional will do a lot of the hard work to make sure, sure that they are there at the right times and in the right moments. But the reality of being in a fractional role is that they, you're not there every single hour of every single day. And so your job as the leader who brings them in is to make sure that they are in the right points when they need to be and that you are giving them the context they need to be able to do their job at an ongoing basis.

[Kurt Nickish]

Yeah. Is there a problem with. I forget what this is called. Agencies. Right. When you, when a company hires like an advertising agency, there's like a, it's not scope creep, but it's a. Yeah, scope creep.

[Amy Bonsal]

Yeah.

[Kurt Nickish]

Is it scope creep. They, they will just exploit an agency like come up with a new presentation, please do another ad for this. And. And it's hard for agencies to say no. Is that an issue here where fractional leaders do feel pulled or people feel like full time is.

[Amy Bonsal]

It's. It's absolutely an issue. Can speak from experience here. Okay, I'll tell you what I've learned and how I approach these things at this point. One of the things I've realized it's really important going into this relationship to. And it is a relationship by the way, with all of the intricacies and communication challenges and opportunities. But one of the things I've learned going into it is that together with, it's usually a CEO who hires me together with that person, I want to sit down and say here are the realms in which I will support. And those realms can be quite broad. But almost always in our initial documentation is these are two or three key things that are really important to driving the organization forward. And then I make sure I have an accountability session with the CEO once a week at least, where we're checking in and saying, okay, these were the priorities we started with. Are these still right? And so what you're doing as a fractional leader is really constantly coming back to hey, have I got my prioritization Right.

[Kurt Nickish]

So Amy kind of got us started there. From the individual perspective, what does it take to be successful in this type of role? How do you structure your time, your presence effectively? How do you know that this working relationship is right for you?

[Amy Bonsal]

Yeah, strategically my goal is I want to show up when they need me for the meetings that they need me in and to be there seamlessly for them so that they are not feeling like, where is this person that I need?

[Tomoko Yokoi]

One of the things that some of the fractional executives had told us was that many of the people who find their way to fractional are coming from long corporate careers. And one of the things that they have to identify before they go into fractional is what are they good at and what will, you know, what will be their brand? That, that one skill that they want to really tell people that this is what I'm really good at and this is how I can help contribute to your company. And so defining what you're really good at. And it's difficult after a lengthy corporate career where you become a bit of a jack of all trades, but finding that sort of expertise is also a good first step.

[Kurt Nickish]

Got it. So really lean into the part where you can make the most impact.

[Amy Bonsal]

I would just add to that 100% agree. What that impact looks like depends on the stage of the organization, the stage that the organization is in. Right. And so knowing what your sweet spot is and what stage of an organization's growth, you can best help really helps you narrow in on the kind of role that would suit you best.

[Kurt Nickish]

So if someone decides to make the transition from a traditional full time senior leadership role to a fractional role, what adjustments do they need to make in the way they work? You know, do they need new skills or is it mostly a mindset shift?

[Amy Bonsal]

Yes and yes, it's both. I will say just, you know, I'm helping someone do this right now, and one of the things that I encourage is titrating into it. Don't try and go all in all at once. Maybe try and get what I call an anchor client, someone who's maybe it's four days a week, maybe it's three days a week, but it's enough to cover your base costs.

[Kurt Nickish]

And just start with one, start with one.

[Amy Bonsal]

And it allows you to learn some of the skills that you need in order to work this way. It allows you time to set up an LLC or whatever you might need depending on your jurisdiction. It allows you to play with the boundaries that you need to create to have a non full time role. It allows you to understand what it means and what meetings you want to attend, what meetings you don't, etc. And it gives you a little bit of space to sort of make mistakes in that realm so that you gain the confidence to be able to take a on more.

[Tomoko Yokoi]

And I think there's an ecosystem popping up related to fractionals. So there are communities. The ones that we're in is Fractionals United. There are also educational programs that we know of, it's called Voyager University. And they're also delivering, you know, just even one day seminars on how you transition from a corporate life into a fractional world. So there are a lot of resources out there and the community is willing to help and provide information for those who are fractionally curious and want to take the step in.

[Kurt Nickish]

So to close, let's return to the bigger picture. We've already seen huge growth in just the last couple of years and the number of people who want to have fractional roles. What has to change within companies and organizations to scale this and make it more mainstream or just more of a common practice?

[Amy Bonsal]

I think just awareness. Of course I have some bias here being a fractional leader, but I think that's really the way to see it for many companies is it is an opportunity to access leadership that otherwise you couldn't afford at an earlier stage or at a younger growth stage for your company. So I think number one is simply awareness and then number two is helping companies build skill sets in incorporating and bringing in people who are not there every hour of every day. And that is a change in the way that they work.

[Tomoko Yokoi]

Yeah. To add on that, I think companies need to think really long term strategy about their human resource policy and their talent. Because as we all know, demographics are changing, people are living for longer, even though our company structures have not yet caught up. If you're a company trying to look into sort of long term human resource strategy, we have so much senior executive talent on the table. As we all get older, we still hopefully will lead still very productive lives beyond 65. And the question is, I think this type of alternative working practices is also a way to retain this expertise within, within companies and to also make sure that you, there's, there's some, you know, ways that you can still participate in the workforce beyond these mandatory retirement ages as well. So I think there's, there's that sort of long term mindset shift that would need to take place and that would be a really interesting way for companies to just adopt a very different mindset.

[Kurt Nickish]

Yeah, I was definitely thinking about that as you were talking about how this can just be a different kind of bridge to retirement for a lot of senior executives with a lot to offer but just not the energy or time or will to take on a full time role. Right?

[Tomoko Yokoi]

Yep, that's right.

[Kurt Nickish]

Tomoko and Amy, it's been really great. Thanks for coming on the show.

[Tomoko Yokoi]

Thank you for having us.

[Amy Bonsal]

This has been such a pleasure. We could talk for hours on this, so thank you for inviting us.

[Amanda Kersey]

That was Tomoko Yokoi and Amy Bansal. Together they wrote the HBR How Part Time Senior Leaders Can Help youp Business HBR on Leadership will be back next Wednesday with another handpicked conversation from Harvard Business Review. If this episode episode helped you share it with your friends and colleagues and follow the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts while you're there in the app, consider leaving us a review. And when you're ready for more podcasts, articles, case studies, books and videos with the world's top business and management experts, find it [e-mail] this episode was produced produced by Mary Dew, Ann Sanny, Hannah Bates and me, Amanda Kersey. On Leadership's team includes Maureen Hoch, Rob Eckhart, Erica Trexler, Ramsey Kabaz, Nicole Smith and Anne Bartholomew. Music is by Coma Media. Thanks for listening.