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- [00:01]
Molly Wood
Why should you listen to the Worklab podcast for Microsoft? Because it delivers actionable insights for business leaders on how to leverage AI to access untapped value, turbocharged decision making and sharpen their competitive edge. That's W O R K L A B no spaces available Wherever you get your podcasts, smart leaders make bold strategic moves. That's why forward thinking companies are expanding into Ohio where innovation is transforming industries from technology to healthcare jobs. Ohio is your trusted partner offering workforce development programs, construction ready sites and customized incentives to set your business up for long term success. Get started@jobsohio.com before we begin, we have a couple of questions. What do you love about HBR on leadership? What do you want less of? What would make HBR and leadership even better? Tell us. Head over to hbr.org podcastsurvey to share your thoughts. We want to make the show even better, but we need your help to do that. So head to hbr.org podcastsurvey thank you. Welcome to HBR on Leadership Case studies and conversations with the world's top business and management experts hand selected to help you unlock the best in those around you. Historically, executives were told to be decisive and hierarchical. Today the advice has shifted away from that towards being nimble and collaborative. But great leaders, according to IMD professor and social psychologist Jennifer Jordan, understand there's a time and place for both traditional and new leadership styles. In this episode, Jordan breaks down leadership into seven key tensions such as power holding versus power sharing and tactical focus versus big picture vision. And she explains when to lean into each style to lead more effectively.
- [02:10]
Jennifer Jordan
Originally, my goal as a researcher was to figure out what are the competencies that leaders in this new world really need to be successful. And our research identified seven competencies. Being a power sharer, a visionary. Being an adapter, Being an accelerator, an analyst, a prospector. Being a great listener. That said, as we work more and more with leaders in this Vuca disrupted world, we see that the best ones, they still dabble and they still have one foot in that more traditional leadership space. That more traditional leadership style. Sometimes they are more command and control. They're. They're tellers. They're power holders. Yes, these new worlds or these emerging traits are important, but sometimes we still need to be traditional. And that's where these seven tensions were born. I call them the seven tensions of the digital age. It's a tension between the traditional and the emerging world. Power holder is somebody who holds power in a way that provides reassurance and security. So when there's a lot Changing when people are feeling maybe insecure or unstable, A power holder really holds that authority in a way that creates security. Power sharer is somebody who shares power in a way that helps to develop others. They also see power sharing as a way to free up their time for more strategic pursuits. So what can I take off the table so I can really focus on what I need to focus on or what I'm good at? Tactician is somebody who's much more short term focused. What are the next steps and can they break down that vision for how it's relevant for the different roles in the organization, the different levels? Visionary is somebody who sees the big picture, are able to create a vision that inspires, but on top of that they can influence and persuade people to adopt that vision. A constant is somebody who has a very clear North Star. They say this is the non negotiables. They're clear on their messaging and that messaging is quite stable. And an adapter is somebody that understands that change is constant and sees adapting their message when new information becomes available as a strength rather than a weakness. A perfectionist is somebody who really is detail oriented, ensures that a perfect finished product is delivered. And an accelerator is somebody who sacrifices perfection for speed. Says that we can satisfy. Sometimes good is good enough, we need to move at speed. So an intuitionist is someone who makes decisions from the gut. Then an analyst is somebody who brings in data and evidence to make their decisions. So minor is someone who goes deep, right? Really wants to understand a specific technology, a specific part of the market, et cetera. And a prospector is someone who goes more broad understanding and is hyper aware of the opportunities and the threats in the environment around them. A teller is much more somebody who gives direction. They have the answer, maybe they're the expert and so it is their responsibility as well to give the answer. A listener is somebody who listens to understand. They're curious, they have a learning mindset, so they're learners. A good leader is never standing fully on one side of that tension or fully on the other. Maybe at a moment when they're speaking or when they're in a meeting, they are. But then when they leave that context, they need to think, okay, is this still the right style that I need? And that requires a lot of emotional intelligence. I would never tell a leader, aim for a great balance in all seven. I think that's too much. Pick out the three or four that they think are really important for them to be able to move between and to focus on those. If you rely on One side exclusively. The downsides of that side are gonna become apparent. So let's take the first tension. We talk about the listener and the teller. If I'm only a teller, right, what are the downsides of being a teller? Well, other people feel disengaged. Other people don't feel their voices heard. The expertise you bring in is going to be very, very narrowly focused on your expertise. The same with being a listener. If you're only a listener and you never speak, what are the downsides of being a listener? Well, you probably don't have your voice heard. You probably don't get to have a lot of say in the direction you might indeed need to be a great listener. And in that situation, you might also need to be able to hold power. Meaning I listen to the people around me and I'm giving a clear frame. I'm giving them feedback. So maybe being a little bit of a teller, I'm giving them feedback. And I'm also creating that psychological safety where they can come back to me if they have. If they have questions. So I'm being a listener, but I'm also being a power holder in that situation. I have questions. I ask one is the situation, what's going on? So what do I sense in the environment around me? What's going on? It might be a context question, right? I need to accelerate because the world is changing rapidly. So I need to accelerate. It might be a situational question, and it can also be an emotional, intelligent question. What am I sensing from the people around me? The people around me actually are feeling. I sense that they need to say something and I should shut up. Or I'm sensing that they're frustrated because I've shared all this power, but maybe they're not ready for it. I need to hold a little bit of power. I've certainly seen leaders who aren't able to do that. They have a message that is very clear, it is well thought out, it's smart, and yet the people below them are just not buying it. There's no change being made, there's no behavioral shift, and yet the message stays the same. And they're just not able to grasp that, yeah, I've done all the work, I've listened, I've created a good strategy, but for some reason, it's just not working. What do I need to do differently? How do I need to adapt? And that questioning, I think, is what leaders need as well.
- [07:51]
Molly Wood
Why should you listen to the Worklab podcast from Microsoft? Because it delivers actionable insights on how business leaders can leverage AI to access untapped value, turbocharged decision making, and sharpen their competitive edge in a world of rapid change and economic uncertainty. In each episode, host Molly Wood has an illuminating conversation with a thought leader who has a vital perspective on AI and the future of work. Find the knowledge you need on Worklab. That's W O R K L A B no spaces available wherever you get your podcasts. Unlike any class, book or podcast, Strawberry Me personal coaching gives you something unique. A professional partner who's 100% focused on your success. It's not about advice. Your coach will ask the right questions, helping you uncover hidden strengths, break through obstacles, and move forward with confidence. If you're ready to unlock your full potential, Visit Strawberry Me HBR for a $50 credit. That's Strawberry Me HBR.
- [09:09]
Jennifer Jordan
One of the people that stands out for me is Angela Renz. She was the former CEO of Burberry and the head of retail at Apple. And for me, she balanced the listener and teller beautifully because she said, I'm not a digital person. The world is changing. I know that my future, our future customer at Burberry is going to be millennials. I don't really get them. I need to listen to them. What are they looking for? How do they want to shop? How do they think about fashion? And she was an incredibly curious person. And yet she also said, these are some things that are non negotiables. This is the history of Burberry. These are the things that we want to hold on to. And so this is a frame. This is a non negotiable for us. I'm here to help you. I'm here to support you. And I also want to learn from you and I want to listen to the people that are at the bottom of the hierarchy, the next generation of leaders in this company, so that I can bring this company to success. Another leader that I admire is Matthias Daufner. He was the head of the German media company Axel Springer. He was the perfect balance on Miner and Prospector because advertising media, one of the most disruptive spaces when he came into the picture about 15, 20 years ago, really saying, okay, I need to understand how this industry is changing, how our readers and our customers want to digest media differently. So very much a Prospector. He took his top team to Silicon Valley. They saved six months there. He took the next levels down with him. And he said, we're going to live like startups. I know you are in your comfort zone of executive life. We're gonna take you there. You're Gonna fly economy class, you're gonna share rooms in kind of a not so nice hotel. So that you really feel like the, the world that we're trying to adapt to, the startup world. And that was his, his prospecting part of the leadership. But then saying, okay, there are a few areas where we already have competency, there's some that we don't. We're gonna sell those off. But where we have competency, we're gonna dive into this and we're gonna invest and we're going to be minors here. So he was great at toggling between this prospector and minor. I see. Normally when leaders are on one side, so they have a sweet spot on one side and their range is very short, very focused, one of two things are happening. Either a lack of skill, right? So they're very much tacticians. They don't really know how to be visionaries. They don't know how to create a vision, they don't know how to influence people, or they're very much power sharers. They don't really know how to hold power. But more likely, I see, they know how, but there's a fear that keeps them from going there. Let us say that they are an absolute power sharer. What is their fear? Their fear is the downside to becoming a power holder. Being seen as authoritarian, being maybe too assertive, being too aggressive, pushing down the voice of the people that work for them. That's their fear. And so exploring. Oh, are all power holders this? Why do you have that view? Give me some examples of power holders that you think do so in a way that helps the team kind of working through and understanding where those fears come from can release them to feel more emboldened to explore that range. Same thing when I see the visionary versus tactician. Sometimes people are afraid to go onto the visionary side because they're like, oh, that's so fluffy. And I don't know what exactly that would entail. And I'm not a very good storyteller. I'm not very inspiring. So they're kind of afraid also of going there and failing and kind of exploring, exploring that visionary side of them and saying, okay, what does a vision look like? What do you think would be inspiring for your team? Why do you think vision is sometimes fluffy? How can we create a vision that's not fluffy? Challenging their fears or their misconceptions about what these other sides of the tensions might look like in a negative way. Many leaders come into my classroom utterly terrified of this world. They don't want to say it. Yes, the world is changing, there's no doubt about that. And yes, all of their expertise might not be so relevant anymore. And can they still be effective leaders if they share power and if they listen, even with these younger generations that might have the technical answers and might want to have their voice heard, sometimes they're also looking for that leader to give them guidance and to provide security and to shelter them from the politics that are going above so that they can do their job. And those are very traditional qualities. And so I think it does give some comfort to leaders.
- [13:40]
Molly Wood
That was IMD Professor Jennifer Jordan in an HBR Quick Study video. You can find that video and more like it on HBR's YouTube channel. We'll be back next Wednesday with another handpicked conversation about leadership from Harvard Business Review. If you found this episode helpful, share it with your friends and colleagues and follow our show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. While you're there, be sure to leave us a review. And when you're ready for more podcasts, articles, case studies, books and videos with the world's top top business and management experts, you'll find it all@hbr.org this episode was produced by Scott LaPierre and me, Hannah Bates. Kurt Nickish is our editor. Music by Coma Media. Special thanks to Ian Fox, Maureen Hoch, Amanda Kersey, Rob Eckhart, Erica Truxler, Ramsey Kabaz, Nicole Smith, Anne Bartholomew and you, our listener. See you next week.