HBR On Leadership — What Actually Works to Change Someone’s Mind
Host: Alison Beard (Harvard Business Review)
Guest: Jonah Berger, Marketing Professor at Wharton, Author of How to Change Anyone’s Mind
Date: December 31, 2025
Episode Overview
This episode dives into the science and art of changing minds in professional and personal settings. Marketing professor Jonah Berger challenges common misconceptions about persuasion and offers research-backed approaches for catalyzing real change. The conversation explores why people resist influence, the psychological hurdles at play, and concrete strategies for becoming more effective at both motivating others and re-examining our own positions.
Key Discussion Points and Insights
The Core Mistake in Persuasion
[01:42]
- Most people try to persuade by pushing: more facts, more reasons, more PowerPoint slides.
- Jonah Berger:
"In the physical world, if we want to move a chair, we push it. In the social world, that doesn’t necessarily work. When we push people, they often push back."
(01:56)
Why People Resist (Reactance)
[03:00]
- People value autonomy and control.
- Directing someone removes their sense of agency, provoking a knee-jerk pushback.
- Example: The Tide Pod Challenge — Warnings and celebrity messages to stop the dangerous behavior actually increased interest and incidents.
- Quote:
"Essentially asking people not to do something had backfired."
— Jonah Berger (04:53)
Keys to Easing Resistance
1. Provide a Menu, Not a Mandate
[05:18]
- Offering choices allows people to feel ownership in the decision, reducing pushback.
- Quote:
"Rather than sitting there thinking about all the reasons wrong with what you suggested, now they're thinking about which of the two options you suggested is a better fit for them."
— Jonah Berger (05:48)
2. Diagnose the Bottleneck
[09:05]
- Before persuading, pinpoint exactly why someone isn’t changing—awareness, evaluation, inertia, doubt, etc.
- Analogy: Test driving a car versus paying full price without trying—reducing the “cost of trial” can move people forward.
3. Address Uncertainty and Endowment
[06:50], [10:21]
- Status quo bias: People overvalue what they already have, and new things feel riskier because their costs are certain and immediate, while benefits are delayed and less certain.
- "Cost benefit timing gap"—costs are upfront and certain, benefits are later and uncertain.
Practical Scenarios & Advice
A. Getting Customers to Use a New App
[09:52]
- Diagnose if the problem is awareness or trust.
- If it’s trust/uncertainty, offer “test drives” or demo days, analogous to car test drives or Apple Store onboarding.
B. Aligning with a Stubborn Teammate
[11:36]
- Avoid presenting your idea as the only option—start small and ask for incremental shifts.
- Share of an overweight trucker reducing Mountain Dew: Small asks, followed by further gradual changes, were effective.
- Quote:
"It's not just about asking for less. It's about asking for less and then asking for more."
— Jonah Berger (13:49)
C. Negotiating for a Raise or Promotion
[13:59]
- Present multiple options (raise, time off, equity)—this reframes the boss’s response from yes/no to a menu of possible “yeses.”
- Begin by highlighting your value before proposing options.
The Emotional Side of Change
[15:02]
- Emotional attachment (endowment effect) increases value placed on current possessions, practices, or ideas.
- Neophobia (fear of the new) and loss aversion powerfully block change initiatives.
- Quote:
"We're not only attached to the old, we're also scared of the new."
— Jonah Berger (15:32)
Power Dynamics: Can Everyone Use These Tools?
[16:26]
- These persuasion techniques are equally relevant regardless of status.
- While bosses can “legislate” change, using these approaches helps ensure true buy-in, not just compliance.
- Quote:
"Whether you’re the lowest employee or the boss, to really change minds, we have to understand those barriers."
— Jonah Berger (16:53)
Subtlety or Manipulation?
[18:22]
- Techniques such as “asking instead of telling” and “guided choices” make persuasion less about manipulation and more about collaborative problem-solving.
- Example: Asking students why they're in test prep, and leading them through a series of questions, encourages them to own the solution.
- Quote:
"By asking the right questions, by guiding the series...they’re not only coming up with solutions, but they’re coming up with solutions that are their solutions."
— Jonah Berger (19:57)
Recognizing Our Own Intractability
[20:08]
- Status quo bias affects everyone—even change experts!
- Personal anecdote: Berger clung to his old iPhone 4 despite memory issues, even after getting a new phone.
- Naming and understanding our own loss aversion and status quo bias makes it easier to change internally.
- Quote:
"Sometimes putting a name to some of these things helps us see it's not that I'm crazy or I'm stuck in my ways—I’m susceptible to this because I have loss aversion."
— Jonah Berger (21:19)
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
- "In the social world, pushing doesn’t always work—people push back." — Jonah Berger (01:56)
- "People become attached to what they have, even if it isn’t perfect." — Jonah Berger (06:57)
- "By giving people a menu of options, you change their mental calculus from “should I do this?” to “which of these will I do?”" — Jonah Berger (05:48)
- "We're not only attached to the old, we're also scared of the new." — Jonah Berger (15:32)
- "To really change minds, we have to understand the barriers—and people at any level can use these tools." — Jonah Berger (16:53)
- "By asking guided questions, people commit to solutions because they feel those solutions are their own." — Jonah Berger (19:57)
Timestamps for Key Segments
- 01:56 — Major mistake: Pushing harder doesn’t work in social change
- 03:00 — Reactance and pushback: Why people resist influence
- 04:53 — Tide Pod Challenge backfires: More warnings, more incidents
- 05:18 — Menu of options: A key tool to reduce resistance
- 06:50 — Five barriers to change: Reactance, endowment, distance, corroborating evidence, uncertainty
- 09:05 — Step-by-step diagnosis before persuasion
- 11:36 — Aligning with resistant peers: Start small, build trust
- 13:59 — Menu tactics in negotiating with superiors
- 15:02 — How emotion, endowment, and neophobia block change
- 16:26 — Power dynamics: Persuasion works up and down the organizational ladder
- 18:22 — The subtlety of asking rather than telling; guided conversations
- 20:08 — Changing yourself: Berger’s personal iPhone story
In The Guest’s Words
"We’re all susceptible to status quo bias. Sometimes it’s just about having the language to understand why we, or others, don’t want to change."
— Jonah Berger (21:19)
For leaders, managers, and anyone interested in unlocking positive change, this episode offers practical frameworks and memorable anecdotes that demystify how real persuasion works—by guiding, not forcing, others (and ourselves) to move forward.