Protein-Maxxing: What Social Media Gets Right…and Wrong

Summary

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Podcast Summary: "Protein-Maxxing: What Social Media Gets Right…and Wrong"

Podcast: Health vs Hype with the American Medical Association
Host: Trace Dominguez (iHeartPodcasts)
Date: April 14, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode tackles the viral trend of "protein maxing"—the practice of maximizing protein intake—inspired by influencer content, gym culture, and the proliferation of high-protein products. Trace Dominguez, alongside expert voices including Dr. Thomas Holland (Rush University Medical Center), influencer Joseph Abel, and real-life trend followers, examines what’s true, what’s risky, and what’s simply hype when it comes to protein. The conversation blends lived experiences, social media’s role, the potential pitfalls of obsessive protein focus, and, most importantly, the science behind dietary protein.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Origins and Perceptions of the Protein Trend

• Viral Growth and Ubiquity

  • The host introduces "protein maxing" as a trend that exploded with TikTok and remains popular across all product categories, from coffee to water (00:29).
  • Many products now emphasize protein content, with bold promises of bigger muscles and smaller waists.

• Social Media’s Role

  • Joseph Abel: Influencer with 4 million+ followers credits protein centricity for fitness success, saying, “Protein was the one thing that when focused on, I saw results... My skin looked better. Almost every other part of my life improved when I focused on it.” (01:03)
  • Scott Chambers (follower): “Being a millennial, I love social media. I am always glued to TikTok... I found Joseph thanks to the algorithm.” (08:31)
  • Shayda Urbani (follower): Values influencers for “great, simple ideas” rather than strict education (02:04).

What Does Science Say About Protein?

• Protein Basics

  • Dr. Thomas Holland: Outlines protein sources—meat, poultry, fish, plants, legumes, nuts—and stresses the importance of “lean proteins” (09:38).
  • Recommends focusing on overall dietary pattern, not just a single macronutrient, for true health benefits (10:22).

• Quality vs. Quantity

  • “The trend is about protein maxing, so increasing your protein intake quite substantially. Although it's a craze on social media, it may not be as safe or effective as it's being purported to be.” (Dr. Holland, 01:18)
  • Both Dr. Holland and Joseph Abel agree that variety, food quality, and sustainability matter more than raw protein numbers.

• Recommended Intake

  • Average adult: ~0.8g protein per kilogram body weight per day (25:01).
  • High-protein diets: Up to 2g/kg/day, best suited for active individuals (25:01).
  • 2g/kg/day is equivalent to roughly 1g per pound of body weight. For most, this is excessive (25:52).
  • “For the run-of-the-mill individual, it may be a little too much.” (Dr. Holland, 26:23)

• Risks of Excess Protein

  • Overage may result in:
    • Weight gain (excess protein converted to fat)
    • Strain on kidneys (especially if preexisting impairment exists), though healthy kidneys can typically manage increased load (26:36, 27:36)
    • Lopsided diets that sacrifice carbs (important for energy) (10:56)
  • “At some point in taking too much protein will have some downstream effect... just because something isn't happening right now doesn't mean it won't happen.” (Dr. Holland, 31:13)

Social Media, Motivation, and Responsibility

• Influencer Impact

  • Joseph Abel emphasizes both the responsibility influencers have and the need for “vigorous macro proofing” and fact checking (07:03).
  • “All of the recipes that I make are vigorously macro proofed to make sure that our numbers are accurate. We run them through USDA food calculators.” (Joseph Abel, 07:03)

• Trend Follower Perspectives

  • Real-life followers use social media more for inspiration than strict instruction; most understand that “science is nuanced” (Shayda Urbani, 09:02).

• Self-Experimentation & Disordered Eating Risks

  • Host raises concerns about self-experimentation and disordered eating:
    • 9% of U.S. population will suffer an eating disorder (16:22).
    • Focusing too much on optimization/control can be harmful.
    • Disordered eating and body image struggles can affect anyone (“Men not suffering as much from a body dysmorphic issue…there is concern.” – Dr. Holland, 17:39)

The Carnivore Diet and Fad Extremes

• Joseph Abel rejects “all or nothing” approaches (e.g., carnivore diet), encouraging balance, variety, and sustainability:
  • “You get so many nutrients from eating vegetables... You can eat a lot of meat, but you still have to have fiber. Fiber is also crucial for satiation” (13:01).
• Dr. Holland: “Whenever you're having whole foods, you're going to get the highest diversity of the quantity and quality of nutrients.” (14:07)

Macronutrients and Food Quality

• Protein Isn’t Hard to Max for Most People

  • “No one's struggling to get carbs and fats... Protein takes finesse to eat properly... But there is almost no substitution for meals that you cook yourself at home.” (Joseph Abel, 18:21)
  • Dr. Holland: "Making your foods at home is going to be the best. That's where you're going to have the opportunity to produce and consume what you're needing." (19:02)

• Nuance of Macronutrient Choices

  • Bread, oils, fats—macronutrients differ in impact based on food quality (20:00).
  • For instance, “Butter may provide trans fats and increase risk for atherosclerosis, whereas olive oil can increase HDL and help clean vessels.” (Dr. Holland, 20:00)

• General U.S. Protein Intake

  • “Most individuals in America are getting a good amount of protein... From a quantity perspective, quality side may not be as good if we’re talking about processed foods or high fat meat.” (Dr. Holland, 30:35)

Popular Online Claims Addressed

At 27:36–29:14, Dr. Holland debunks or clarifies widely circulated protein claims:

| Claim | Dr. Holland’s Verdict & Reasoning | |---|---| | More protein = more muscle? | No. Muscle gain requires resistance training as well. (27:47) | | More protein = faster weight loss? | Not necessarily. Could cause weight gain if protein intake is excessive. (27:54) | | Is high-protein best for everyone? | No. Needs are individual and context-specific. (28:16) | | Animal protein causes cancer? | Can, especially smoked/overcooked meats. (28:58) | | Plant protein inferior to animal? | No—plant protein is just as good if dietary choices are balanced. (29:22) |

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Joseph Abel on Simplicity:
  “Protein felt like it was that through line... Western diets aren't really struggling for carbs and fats. The things that are tricky... are proteins.” (03:21)

• Dr. Holland on Fads:
  “Focusing on one singular food or food group is not going to be as beneficial as focusing on the whole dietary pattern.” (10:22)

• On Eating Habits:
  “You have to love your diet if you're going to stick with it. That is not a perk, it is a requirement.” (Joseph Abel, 23:24)

• On Food Choices:
  “Your body loves to be balanced and it will work so, so hard to maintain that balance until it can't.” (Dr. Holland, 31:13)

• On Social Media Claims:
  “If you're trying to sell it to me, my level of trust is diminished and I'm still going to research it.” (Dr. Holland, 34:20)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:29 — Introduction to the protein maxing trend on social media
• 03:21–07:45 — Joseph Abel describes his protein journey and influence responsibility
• 09:38 — Dr. Holland explains what protein is and good sources
• 10:22–12:54 — Dangers of single-nutrient focus and individualized needs
• 13:01–15:32 — Anti-fad diet perspective: balance, variety, sustainability
• 16:22–18:16 — Disordered eating risk and mental health concerns
• 18:21–20:00 — Macronutrient breakdown, food preparation, and quality
• 25:01–26:23 — Recommended protein intake by bodyweight and activity level
• 26:34–27:36 — Potential problems with excess protein, including weight gain and kidney health
• 27:47–29:22 — Dr. Holland rapid-fire mythbusting of key protein maxing claims
• 30:35–32:10 — Are Americans getting enough protein? Can you have too much?
• 32:21–34:09 — Advice for safely approaching a higher-protein diet
• 34:20–35:28 — Separating evidence-based health guidance from hype online

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Final Takeaways

• There’s science behind protein’s importance, but trend-driven “maxing” is not a universal solution. Most Americans meet (or exceed) requirements; exceeding needs is only advisable for those undergoing substantial resistance training and should be done with individualized consideration.
• Quality and variety trump sheer quantity. Focus on whole foods, lean sources, and home-cooked meals.
• Personalization matters. Individual health goals, activity levels, medical conditions, and motivation play crucial roles.
• Be skeptical of internet claims, especially when accompanied by a sales pitch. Cross-check health info—even from influencers—with credible resources, and always consult healthcare professionals before making major diet changes.
• Protein obsession can have psychological downsides and risk triggering disordered eating. Awareness and moderation are key.

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For more evidence-based guidance, visit: amahealthvshype.org

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Transcript

[Dr. Thomas Holland]

Ruby,

[Shayda Urbani]

I tried the Starbucks protein thing. You know, that was new. So I'm like, give it to me.

[Joseph Abel]

It is corporate profit over health. And I mean, it's a game.

[Scott Chambers]

I hate the high protein trend. Everyone's trying to incorporate protein into something.

[Dr. Thomas Holland]

The trend is about just we're talking about protein maxing, so increasing your protein intake quite substantially.

[Trace Dominguez]

If you've spent any time online lately, you've probably come across videos pushing high protein diets. This trend, called protein maxing, really took off in 2020 with the rise of TikTok and it has not slowed down since. Now it's everywhere. You'll see added protein in the pasta aisle, on the iced coffee menu, at your local Starbucks, even in bottled water. And with it comes some pretty bold claims. Bigger muscles and smaller waists. Like most social media trends, protein maxing also comes with an army of influencers, each with their own strong opinions about it.

[Joseph Abel]

Protein was the one thing that when focused on, I saw results in the gym. I saw my body improve, I saw myself lose weight more easily and I felt better all the time. My skin looked better. Almost every other part of my life improved when I focused on it.

[Trace Dominguez]

And doctors have some things to say.

[Dr. Thomas Holland]

So although it's been a craze on social media, it may not be as safe or effective as it's being purported to be.

[Trace Dominguez]

In this episode, the first of the Health vs Hype series with the American Medical association welcomed by the way, we'll uncover the truth about protein maxing and answer the questions we're all curious about. Do we really need more protein in our diets? How much is too much? And what does the science actually say about protein maxing? We invited a social media influencer to fill us in on why the high protein diet is trending. We talked to a physician scientist to get all the health facts. And to round things out, we'll hear from some folks who follow the trend online.

[Scott Chambers]

Social media. Just scrolling and I started seeing health influencers posting healthy recipes and better ways to get your steps in every day.

[Shayda Urbani]

There's not so much that like a health influencer is going to be able to teach me, but they have great, simple ideas.

[Trace Dominguez]

I'm your host, Trace Dominguez. Join me as we find out whether protein maxing is all health or just hype.

[American Medical Association Narrator]

This is an I Heart podcast. Guaranteed human. Your social media feed delivers plenty of advice, but it doesn't know you. It doesn't ask questions. It doesn't give physical exams or order tests doctors do. At the American Medical association, we believe the best care starts with a real conversation, with someone who understands the science and your unique health. So stay curious, ask questions, but when it's time to make decisions, make them with a doctor. Learn [e-mail] that's amahealthvshipe.org.

[Trace Dominguez]

To understand why this trend resonates with so many people, I spoke with Joseph Abel, a social media creator with over 4 million followers who focuses on high protein recipes. Here he is talking about how he found his way to the high protein diet.

[Joseph Abel]

I think nutrition is really complex. There's a reason why people study it for years and years and years and get degrees in it and everything. And for me, the complexity felt very intimidating because I knew I needed to eat healthy, whatever that means. And so I think I was looking for some kind of through line where it's like, what is it? Just eating veggies? Like, is it just like people say to avoid red meat? Like, what's the truth? Like, what is the single through line that I can focus on? And protein felt like it was that through line. It's obviously not everything. There's fiber, there's micronutrients, there's so many other things to consider. But Western diets aren't really struggling for carbs and fats. The things that are tricky to get into the diet are proteins. And in realizing that, as well as realizing the crucialness of protein for muscle building and body composition goals, all things that I was really interested in as well as satiation, focusing on protein felt like a very good, simple enough and a very good approximation of what would build a healthy diet. And so I realized if I center my diet around protein and focus on that, not only am I going to build muscle more easily, I'm going to be more satiated. A lot of sources of protein like red meat have really good micronutrient profiles. So I'm checking those boxes as well. And so rather than just going through and meticulously analyzing every aspect of nutrition, it was an easy thing to focus on that would cover a lot of my bases at once.

[Podcast Host/Interviewer]

Do you have a different perspective on

[Trace Dominguez]

the high protein diet, would you say, than other influencers in the space?

[Joseph Abel]

I'd say, yeah. I mean, I. So I blew up on social media a couple of times, but one of the biggest blowups I had was in March of 2024 when I made a recipe series called Easy Gains and it did about 100 million views in a month. It was really eye opening for me and that the entire point of that series was to teach people the high protein, low effort diet. Like that was the jingle and it resonated with tons of people. I think that protein is a feature of many other food creators nutritional plans and diets. For me, it is a absolute requirement. It is the kind of foundation of everything I'm trying to teach. Because if you can just focus on having a protein centered diet, you clear out so many other problems. That is the number one thing to fix in people's diets if they're doing that.

[Trace Dominguez]

Interesting. So did you try any other diets

[Podcast Host/Interviewer]

before this or were you kind of

[Trace Dominguez]

like, I'll just try different things and see what works for me? Or how did you find your way specifically to then high protein?

[Joseph Abel]

Totally, yeah. So there were a number of things I tried. I tried low carb, I tried low fat. I had friends that were doing keto. Everything I tried left me either bloated, exhausted, or otherwise just disappointed and unfulfilled. And I'm like, if this is health, this is awful. This cannot be what flourishing feels like. Going low carb left me very exhausted and drained naturally, because carbs are a huge source of energy production for the body. Going low fat felt very unsatisfying. And I was always hungry and never felt satiated. But protein was the one thing that when focused on, I saw results in the gym, I saw my body improve, I saw myself lose weight more easily, and I felt better all the time. My skin looked better. Almost every other part of my life improved when I focused on it.

[Trace Dominguez]

Are there downsides to the high protein diet?

[Joseph Abel]

Yeah, so there can be if you're. And this is what I feel like the tricky part is, protein is a little monolithic. We know it's in chicken, we know it's in steak. And so for a lot of people, their diet will fall down a very repetitive and uninteresting line because it takes a lot of creativity to get protein out of certain foods.

[Podcast Host/Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Trace Dominguez]

You have nearly 4 million followers who are learning more about their diets from you and your experiments with yourself. And so why do you think that that resonates with so many people if, say, they may not share your story, your background, your path?

[Joseph Abel]

I mean, my job has me basically health maxing for a lot of my day. Like, that's a huge privilege. Right. It's important for me to be honest, like when I'm not doing well or I'm struggling with stuff or I'm having difficulties conveying the humanity of that is also just a way to bridge more of a connection between me and the audience as well as just making sure that I have my facts right. Like all of the recipes that I make are vigorously macro proofed to make sure that our numbers are accurate. We run them through USDA food calculators and stuff. So there is a high degree of responsibility. I wish more creators would be really sensitive to that because I think it would help kind of raise the bar of the way that we communicate with people.

[Podcast Host/Interviewer]

That actually brings me to a question

[Trace Dominguez]

I was going to ask, like, do you feel responsibility toward the well being of the people who are watching your videos? And, and what does that look like?

[Joseph Abel]

Absolutely, yeah. I mean, I think sometimes creators are sort of will sort of oscillate between the stance of like, oh, I'm just a person doing my own thing. I'm not, you know, I'm not attached to the consequences of the things I say or share. And I find that troubling. Right. Because the truth is that there are a ton of people that I'm impressionable upon. I get DMs every day from people who say, hey, you've changed my life. You're the most influential person in my life and I've never met them. And that's a huge amount of responsibility.

[Trace Dominguez]

Scott Chambers is one of those people. He turned to social media for inspiration after making the decision to get his health on track. He's since adopted a fitness routine and a more nutritional diet and as a result lost over 100 pounds.

[Scott Chambers]

Being a millennial, I love social media. I am always glued to TikTok, to Instagram, to Facebook. I found Joseph thanks to the algorithm. One day I was just scrolling through and he had shared a recipe, a high protein thing. Now I am not exclusively on a high protein diet by any stretch of the imagination, but I incorporate a lot of his recipes and his guides in helping me reach my protein goals.

[Trace Dominguez]

Shayda Urbani also follows Joseph on Instagram and like Scott, she uses social media more for inspiration than information.

[Shayda Urbani]

There's a debate around protein, right? And nutrition is so fraught with like angry people and very opinionated people. So I really had to look at the whole debate, like what's, what is generally agreed upon in science, what's mostly debated and then make some decisions for myself.

[Trace Dominguez]

I think at this point it would be helpful to talk about what protein is and why we even need it in our diets in the first place. For that I asked Dr. Thomas Holland, a physician scientist from Rush University Medical center, to help us out.

[Dr. Thomas Holland]

We generally think of protein in foods as being predominantly meat, so we're talking things across red meat, lean proteins like chicken, turkey, fish. But there's also going to be proteins in vegetables in particular nuts and beans, like legumes, things like that. So if we're consuming lean proteins, then we're getting really solid protein that's going to be nutritious.

[Podcast Host/Interviewer]

So we're seeing kind of a rise in the high protein diet. High protein products, you know, protein water, protein lattes, protein cereal, you know, we're just putting protein into everything. What do you think is behind that? What's really going on there?

[Dr. Thomas Holland]

There's an idea that if you're intaking protein that is somehow going to lead to potentially better health or, you know, more muscle gain. When you're addressing different fads or trends or whatever it may be, focusing on one singular food or food group is not going to be as beneficial as focusing on the whole dietary pattern.

[Podcast Host/Interviewer]

Dr. Holland, how do you approach conversations with patients who are like high protein? That's for me.

[Dr. Thomas Holland]

So I, I typically ask what, what are motivations? That's how I start these conversations. What's your motivation? Why, why are you leaning towards a high protein diet? Is it for muscle gain? Okay, so if we're, if we're thinking about muscle gain, then it leads to a natural discussion on well if you intake proteins in lieu of carbs, how are you gonna have energy to maintain your physical activity? Certainly the protein can be broken down and we can produce glucose then thereafter. But if you're needing quick energy, how are you going to achieve that on a immensely high protein diet if it's in lieu of carbs? If the motivation is just from a health perspective, again motivation, what aspect of health? So I'm leaning towards high protein because I don't want to intake fats because I want to try to lose weight. Well, we can lean towards balancing our protein and getting good nutritious fats that are not going to be, you know, detrimental to your health. It does need to come down to precision. And the individual, how is this individual interacting with their food? Because it's gonna be difficult to say that a 6 foot, 230 pound male should intake the same calorie content as a 5 foot 1, 120 pound female. Right. There's still that component of calories in, calories out. So a lot of times when my conversations start, we talk about the quality of the food and how they're intaking those foods. And then if there is a high caloric intake, how are we reducing the calories? So what type of physical activity are you doing to reduce those calories? So, you know, it is a nuanced conversation.

[Trace Dominguez]

I'm going to play some clips from my conversation with Joseph and I'd love for you to react to them.

[Joseph Abel]

You know, there's, there's the whole carnivore movement, you know, where people will just only eat meat and nothing else. And that's. That to me has always raised a red flag when people across any sort of diet spectrum are like, never eat anything but this one thing. It's always like, huh, really? Is that it? Like, is the human body so simple that it needs one food and that's all we need? Like, you know, and then you have the whole like. Well, that's all our ancestors ate. Yeah, our ancestors also drank dirty water with that. You know, that aside. Yeah, you, there's totally a way to go too far on this and go overboard. You get so many nutrients from eating vegetables, you feel significantly better after eating them too. And it balances the rest of your diet. You know, like, you can eat a lot of meat, but you still have to have fiber. You need to digest your food properly. You know, fiber is also crucial for satiation. And I can't tell you how many people will push for carnivore or push to just only eat meat. And the people that get on that stay with a tight level of motivation for a little bit, but they're never full, they're never all the way satiated, and then they end up falling off the wagon and getting into something else.

[Podcast Host/Interviewer]

Dr. Holland, how do you feel about that clip now that you've heard it?

[Dr. Thomas Holland]

Yeah, love it. You know, I think that's, that's a very important thing to consider that what we're consuming now is, is drastically different. And as we have evolved, we've evolved to being able to consume multiple types of food. And to the point, on a thousand years ago, you know, they didn't call it hunter gatherer for no reason. There were hunters that were getting protein and there were gatherers that were figuring out what berries and what root vegetables and things to consume. So to the point on the, the nutrients, an aspect that I always like to say is whenever you're having whole foods, you're going to get the highest diversity of, of the quantity and quality of nutrients in, in that, that whole food diet. So, yeah, I think the, the point being made is spot on. When we're thinking about fad diets, there has to be a thoughtful nature to it because at some point this isn't going to be sustainable forever. Yeah. And so you have to think about how you cycle off of it. What, what are you going to do as you move from this diet into your lifestyle and how are you going to reintroduce those carbs or reintroduce those fats? And so being, you know, cognizant of that is very important.

[Podcast Host/Interviewer]

Yeah. Would you say that that's part, I mean, when we say balanced diet, we're usually about what you're eating as much as what you're not eating. Would you say this, like kind of cycling off as part of that balance?

[Dr. Thomas Holland]

Yeah, I do. You know, it's. And that's with everything. Right. If somebody's doing a, a fasting diet or if they're doing various types of fad diets, whether or not it's a whole protein, a keto carnivore, various components around that, it's all about how you're going to move through that and what your goal is. If your goal is fast weight loss and then you're going to cycle into something thoughtfully, then, you know, a keto diet may be very beneficial. But it's all about the modification. We always like to talk about it as a lifestyle modification. So what's going to be sustainable and actually usable for the rest of your life as opposed to something that is here for a good time, not a long time?

[Podcast Host/Interviewer]

Got it.

[Trace Dominguez]

Like a lot of viral diet trends, protein maxing promises control and results. But in some cases that focus on optimization can start to look a lot like disordered eating. With 9% of the US population or 30 million Americans suffering from an eating disorder in their lifetime, this is where the conversation gets more complicated.

[Dr. Thomas Holland]

If there is a lot of concern about how you're looking and that's why you're leaning towards these, that can lead to disordered eating. And you know, at that point definitely need to bring in other, other health professionals to help address those concerns. Whether or not it's cognitive behavioral therapy, how you're introducing different foods. You know, when we talk about doing dietary modifications, we always have registered dietitians on board for our trials. And so we have that nuance, we have that expertise about how things are going to be modified and what it's going to do to individuals as they move along this spectrum of modification.

[Podcast Host/Interviewer]

Yeah, I think particularly in men, you see sometimes this discussion around disordered eating doesn't come up as often. And I wondered if, if there are concerns around it specifically in men.

[Dr. Thomas Holland]

Yeah, you know, I think there's always this knee jerk reaction of men not suffering as Much from a body dysmorphic issue. But there is concern. Whenever I'm looking at muscle and fitness and I see these, these guys that are just shredded and I'm looking at their diets and trying to figure out, okay, how am I going to consume just oatmeal and egg whites for a couple of weeks to thin out? And I have to take a step back and say, okay, what's realistic for me? What does my body type require and how do I make sure that I'm being healthy for myself?

[Podcast Host/Interviewer]

Let's look at another clip about macronutrients.

[Joseph Abel]

I do think that improving protein content in foods is a huge step up. When you think about what the three macronutrients are. In food, you have carbs, fats and protein. No one's struggling to get carbs and fats. You want more carbs, eat more bread, you want more fats, put more butter in there, put more oil in there. It's easy to do. Protein takes finesse to eat properly and to get in your diet. So I think it's an improvement. The one thing I would encourage is, and I don't want to let perfect be the enemy of good. So for people that have to rely on fast food more and are able to choose from the high protein menu, good for them. But there is almost no substitution for meals that you cook yourself at home.

[Podcast Host/Interviewer]

I see you nodding a lot during that one. Can you tell me a bit about what you're thinking?

[Dr. Thomas Holland]

The ultimate point that's being made is making your foods at home is going to be the best. That's where you're going to have the opportunity to produce and consume what you're needing. So it makes a whole lot of sense when we're thinking about proteins and as he says, the finesse of the consumption. And again, I come back to quality. You could intake proteins that are high processed meats, you can intake proteins that are really high in fat, or you can lean towards those proteins that are going to be a bit more lean, that allow you to intake the food and get the nutrients that you're wanting without risking and taking the nutrients that are not going to be good for you?

[Podcast Host/Interviewer]

Yeah. And, you know, forgive my ignorance, I guess, but is it really true that there is really just like those kind of three legs of the stool, you know, protein, carbs and fat and, and you can kind of dial them up and down and that's pretty much it?

[Dr. Thomas Holland]

Yeah. For the macronutrients, that is. And, and that's where, you know, he said if you want More carbs, You can eat a piece of bread. Well, that's okay, but what kind of bread are you intaking? Are you intaking whole grain? Are you taking in seed bread? Or are you intaking refined grain, white bread? So although those are the three major macronutrients, there is going to be nuance to the components underneath each of those where you can have different quality variations of what you're, you're eating. So he said for fats, well, you could intake butter or a little bit more oil. Well, you can take in butter and get trans fat, and that's going to lead towards potentially atherosclerosis. And atherosclerosis is a blockage of the blood vessel. Or you can intake olive oil. That's going to increase your HDL content and actually help clean your vessels. So again, depending upon your choice of fat is going to dictate that outcome.

[Trace Dominguez]

You just heard a bit about trans fats, so let's take a second to explain why this matters.

[Podcast Host/Interviewer]

Because when we think about fats, we

[Trace Dominguez]

often picture things like fries or cookies. And we've all heard that those can raise cholesterol, but it's a bit more complex than that. So your body actually needs cholesterol. It helps build cells and make hormones, but it has to travel through your blood to get where it's needed. And that's where the two types come in, LDL and HDL cholesterol. That's low density lipoprotein and high density lipoprotein. LDL delivers cholesterol where it's needed, but too much, especially from foods high in trans fats, can lead to a buildup in your arteries. That's what can cause issues like atherosclerosis, which you heard Dr. Holland mention. HDL, on the other hand, it helps carry excess cholesterol away back to the liver so your body can get rid of it. So in the simplest terms, more HDL is good. Too much LDL can be a problem. It's really about balance and that's where our food choices come in. So in the context of our three macros, a slice of whole grain bread with olive oil is a different choice than a white bread with butter. Even though basically you've done the same thing on a macro level, you ate a carb and a fat.

[Dr. Thomas Holland]

That's exactly the right way to put it. You're quantity of intake is, may not change, but your quality of intake certainly does. Macros are going to be a good judge of general consumption and that's going to be about 40 to 50% carbs, 25 to 35% protein, and about 20 to 30% of fat. The reason we're so high on carbs is that's our energy. We intake carbs, and that gets converted to what's called glycogen. And that glycogen gets used in our first 20 to 30 minutes of exercise. So carbs are going to be predominating that diet as far as macros, because that's what we're using for actual energy production, and then proteins and fats fill in thereafter. And another thing that he said that I really do appreciate is, you know, it's not about perfection. And that's one thing to always keep in mind. It's not about perfection. It's about consistency. It's not trying to do everything, but trying to do something that's healthier every day.

[Podcast Host/Interviewer]

Okay, interesting. Let's go on to clip number three. Talk a little bit about this.

[Joseph Abel]

It takes a lot of creativity to get protein out of certain foods. If you want to get protein out of a cheesecake. And to be clear, there's always protein in cheesecake and ice cream. There's just a lot more calories, fats, and sugars, too. So if you want to make an intelligent recipe that's optimized for the right amount of protein for the calories, which is usually in my book, like a 10% ratio between calories and protein is great, like 500 calories, 50 grams of protein. That's nice. That's a good choice. The danger is your diet falls into a repetitious and uninteresting place. And the problem with that is that it's not going to last. You have to love your diet if you're going to stick with it. That's. That is a. That is not a. A perk. It is a requirement.

[Podcast Host/Interviewer]

Dr. Holland, is that an accurate target, 10% between calories and protein, would you say?

[Dr. Thomas Holland]

It can be, you know, the issues or, or limitations that we're going to run into with a 10 target is that one. It's not going to be individualized. If somebody's generally hearing that and they think, oh, I'm going to target a 10 ratio, it could be a little too much. The other side of that is that it's not going to be necessarily for sedentary people. So if you're leaning into this 10%, but you're not getting up and doing physical activity, you're not doing your aerobics, you're not doing your resistance training, it can be a little high with all

[Trace Dominguez]

the online noise and marketing of high protein products, it can be pretty hard to know just how much protection protein is the right amount. So let's switch gears for a bit and talk about the numbers.

[Dr. Thomas Holland]

High protein diets. Generally when we're thinking about protein intake, there's going to be different recommended values that we're intaking. And usually that's about 0.8 grams per kilogram per day. So if we take our weight in pounds and convert it to kilograms and then multiply that by 0.8, we should be getting about, you know, that, that amount of protein in our diet. Now for these high protein diets, they're intaking, you know, a bit higher at maybe about twice as much. So we're talking around a scale of 1.2 to 2.0 grams per kilogram per day. And that's okay for individuals that are very active and they're doing resistance training.

[Trace Dominguez]

Before we move on, let's break down the math on protein maxing for a second. 2.0 grams per kilogram per day, that's about 1 gram of protein for every pound of body weight. It's a formula that you see promoted all across the Internet. So if you weigh say 150 pounds, your high protein goal would be 150 grams a day. For context, that's like 20 ounces of cooked meat or 24 large hard boiled eggs or two dozen eggs.

[Dr. Thomas Holland]

That's a big omelet for the run of the mill individual. It may be a little too much. If we're thinking about just how we are going to be functioning with that protein.

[Podcast Host/Interviewer]

Why would you say it's too much?

[Dr. Thomas Holland]

So, yeah, so our bodies can only utilize protein when, when it needs to be utilized. We work out, the muscles tear, we have protein, it allows that muscle to build back up. And if we're intaking too much, what's eventually going to happen is that protein can be converted into storage forms, so we can actually convert it into glucose to use for energy. And at that point it can also be converted into fat. So if you're intaking too much protein, it can lead to some weight gain. It may not be the weight gain that you're, you're desiring. Um, and then on the other side of that, if you're gonna be intaking a lot of protein, you wanna make sure that your kidney function is good. So generally speaking, if you're intaking too much protein and your kidneys are healthy, that's gonna be fine. But if there is a potential issue with your kidneys, it can lead to more damage to those kidneys.

[Trace Dominguez]

Let's quickly go through some of the most widely spread claims online about protein maxing. We'll start with a big one. Does eating more protein automatically mean you'll build more muscle?

[Dr. Thomas Holland]

No, it doesn't. If you want to increase muscle mass, you need to be doing resistance training along with the protein intake.

[Podcast Host/Interviewer]

Got it. Does high protein mean faster weight loss?

[Dr. Thomas Holland]

Not necessarily. Depending upon the quality of your protein intake, it may mean weight gain. So it's nuanced, but generally, again, quality.

[Trace Dominguez]

Are higher protein diets best for everybody?

[Dr. Thomas Holland]

No, no, this comes down to, again, precision medicine and. Or individualized dietary intake.

[Podcast Host/Interviewer]

Yeah. Is there a group that it would benefit? Kind of across the board, you know, age or sex or anything like that?

[Dr. Thomas Holland]

There has been some research that in older individuals, a little bit more protein can be beneficial, especially as both male and female move into, you know, hormonal changes and redistribution of fat and muscle. And so having a higher protein diet can be beneficial.

[Podcast Host/Interviewer]

Does animal protein cause cancer?

[Dr. Thomas Holland]

It can. So depending upon the preparation of it, especially if there's smoked meats or overcooked meats, they can become carcinogenic. So again, nuance there with how you're preparing your meats.

[Podcast Host/Interviewer]

Yeah. And then is plant protein not as good a protein as animal protein?

[Dr. Thomas Holland]

Plant protein is just as good as animal protein. Again, being thoughtful about how you're intaking it, you can achieve the same quantity of your protein intake.

[Podcast Host/Interviewer]

Amazing. You mentioned hormonal balance. I thought that'd be interesting to touch a little bit more on.

[Dr. Thomas Holland]

So now the. I guess the. The point that I was trying to get at both male and female, we usually think of female perimenopause and moving into menopause as very female specific. And there's a drop in estrogen, an increase in testosterone. Well, the opposite is true for male. And we go through a similar hormonal change as we age, where our testosterone gets lower. That's the. The commercial is all around about low T. Right. So our testosterone decreases and our estrogen increases. Now, when it comes to hormones, proteins are going to be very important because they are supporting our hormone regulation. So adequate protein intake is going to help with stabilization of our blood sugar, it's going to help with reducing insulin spikes, and it's going to also help with, you know, liver functionality. Yeah.

[Podcast Host/Interviewer]

Would you say that Americans are consuming enough protein generally?

[Dr. Thomas Holland]

Yeah, yeah, for the most part, you know, general individuals that are walking around, from a dietary perspective, we're getting an appropriate amount of protein. Now, again, that's From a quantity perspective, quality side may not be as good if we're talking about processed foods or high fat meat. But generally speaking, yeah, most individuals in America are getting a good amount of protein.

[Podcast Host/Interviewer]

Yeah, there's an idea online that there's no such thing as too much protein.

[Dr. Thomas Holland]

Yeah. You know, from a over consumption of protein, I think it depends on how you're getting it. What are you intaking to get to that high protein? I tell my students this all the time. Your body loves to be balanced and it will work so, so hard to maintain that balance until it can't. And that imbalance at some point is because of something we're doing, whether or not we're, we're doing enough physical activity, whether or not we're intaking an appropriate diet. So at some point in taking too much protein will have some downstream effect. Whether or not that is, you know, something with the kidneys, potentially something with the liver, something with the vasculature, something will eventually happen. So, you know, just because something isn't happening right now doesn't mean something won't happen.

[Podcast Host/Interviewer]

If someone's curious about a high protein diet and high protein eating, what should they know? How can they approach this safely if they're coming from, you know, coming at it fresh?

[Dr. Thomas Holland]

You know, I think the main thing to keep in mind when you're thinking about opting toward a higher protein content is what the typical intake is. So if we're talking about, like I said earlier, the 0.8 grams per kilogram per day, if you're going to increase that, first and foremost do a slow increase. Our bodies love to adjust to the change. So implementing, you know, one gram per kilogram, then go to one and a half again. If you are increasing the protein intake, what's the motivation? Why are you doing this? Is it because you're trying to build muscle and you're going to be doing resistance training, then okay. But if it's purely from a weight loss perspective, then there's better ways to do it.

[Podcast Host/Interviewer]

And then when should someone seek medical advice?

[Dr. Thomas Holland]

So if you do have any type of organ issue, specifically kidneys, liver, heart, just speaking with your primary care doc and having that conversation, maybe sending your doc a letter on your, your my chart or whatever messaging system saying hey, the next time I'm in, I want to talk about this and I want to make sure that I'm approaching this appropriately. And perhaps they have the ability to refer you to a dietitian within the system that then is covered or you have the opportunity to See a dietitian on your own. For me, it always comes back to understanding the motivations that an individual has and doing things safely and thoughtfully.

[Podcast Host/Interviewer]

How could we learn to separate evidence based guidance from hype other than maybe the person telling us, you know, how can we figure it out from whomever we're seeing it on. On social media?

[Dr. Thomas Holland]

Yeah, my wife will come to me and say, hey, have you seen this on Instagram? And I'll say no. And she'll say, I'll research it and get back to me.

[Trace Dominguez]

What a resource.

[Scott Chambers]

I know, right?

[Dr. Thomas Holland]

Right. So I will go and I will review whatever she sent me and I'll come back to her with a one liner of yes, this is good or no, this isn't good, or maybe it needs a bit more research to be to be had. But a lot of times, what are these quick 1530 second, 45 second videos on Instagram? Getting the main point of what the person is saying and then throwing that into a Google search will generally tell you where it stands. Just a very bird's eye view of things. So, you know, if it's information for information sake, I'm a bit more trustworthy, but I'm still going to research it. If you're trying to sell it to me, my level of trust is diminished and I'm still going to research it.

[Podcast Host/Interviewer]

Yeah, that's a red flag for you then.

[Dr. Thomas Holland]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host/Interviewer]

Okay. Well, Dr. Holland, thank you for all of this information.

[Trace Dominguez]

So helpful.

[Dr. Thomas Holland]

I appreciate it, I appreciate it. And thank you so much for the questions. I love getting the wheels turning

[Joseph Abel]

on

[Trace Dominguez]

a scale of health to hype. I think it's safe to say protein maxing comes out somewhere in the middle. For starters, it's important to remember that the quality of protein matters as much as the quantity. Adding more lean cooked chicken breasts to your diet is a much better, better choice than adding more bacon, for example. It's also helpful to understand your motives for increasing your protein and to recognize that high protein diets are not a one size fits all solution. Which means you should have a conversation with your physician before making any changes to your diet. I mean, that's my takeaway. I'd be interested to hear what you think. Let me know in the comments. And thanks again to Dr. Holland for helping us decode protein maxing. And thanks to Joseph Scott and Shada for sharing their experiences with us. We got to the bottom of this trend, but this is just the beginning. We have seven more episodes lined up exploring some of the most confusing health trends out there. We'll share more stories, investigate more claims and separate Health from Hype. So make sure to subscribe. In the next episode. We'll be exploring sleep trackers and all the unique social media trends people are trying in pursuit of a good night sleep sleep. I don't know if I want to try mouth taping, but I kind of. I don't know.

[Podcast Host/Interviewer]

We'll see so I hope you'll join me.

[Trace Dominguez]

Until then, visit amahealth versus hype.org for more information. That's amahealthvshipe.org thanks for listening. Health versus Hype is a production of Ruby Studio from iheartmedia and the American Medical Association. I'm Trace Dominguez. Our producers are Matt Stillo and Patrick Pamela Lawrence. Michael Depo Wilson is our writer. The show is engineered and features original music by Matthew Ernest Filler. Health versus Hype is intended for educational

[Podcast Host/Interviewer]

and informational purposes only and does not constitute medical advice, diagnosis or treatment.

[Trace Dominguez]

Always seek the advice of your physician with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition.