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Jonathan Goldstein
Foreign.
Podcast Advertiser
Hello.
Stevie Lane
Hello.
Producer
Welcome to the studio.
Stevie Lane
Are you going to tell people who I am?
Producer
Before that even?
Jonathan Goldstein
I was going to apologize for the
Producer
smell of egg salad.
Jonathan Goldstein
I don't know why it smells like egg salad in here.
Producer
It's not like I was eating an egg salad sandwich or anything.
Stevie Lane
But what's those little pieces of yolk that are stuck all over your beard?
Jonathan Goldstein
Nothing.
Producer
That's total circumstantial evidence. You can't hang someone for circumstantial evidence. I did see Malcolm Gladwell exiting the
Jonathan Goldstein
studio, strutting around with an egg salad
Producer
sandwich poking out of his fanny pack
Jonathan Goldstein
like he owned the joint.
Producer
So there's some circumstantial evidence you might
Jonathan Goldstein
want to investigate, you intrepid reporter, you. So, hello.
Producer
Stevie Lane, producer.
Stevie Lane
Yes. Of the episode that we're about to listen to.
Jonathan Goldstein
Brandon.
Stevie Lane
Yeah, Brandon, I will say. And he doesn't even know this. He's not even gonna know this till he listens to this.
Jonathan Goldstein
Yeah.
Stevie Lane
One of my all time favorite guests, I think.
Jonathan Goldstein
Really?
Stevie Lane
Yeah. I don't know. He just had such a nice attitude, and I feel like the two of you had a really lovely rapport.
Producer
Yeah. And it was like an example of how sometimes a small question can have, like, a lot of emotional impact and
Jonathan Goldstein
can just really echo through the years.
Producer
And, you know, with these updates, a lot of times I start off by
Jonathan Goldstein
saying that the subject of the episode has gone through a lot of changes.
Producer
But in the case with Brandon, I will say that. Jeff, change seems like too slight a word. I would say that Brandon has gone through some transformations.
Brandon
Hmm.
Producer
So here's Brandon.
Stevie Lane
Yeah, it's a fun one.
Producer
It is a fun one. And after the episode, if you stick around, I'm going to catch up with Brandon and we're going to see who Brandon has become since we last spoke.
Jonathan Goldstein
Jackie.
Brandon
Hey, Johnny.
Jonathan Goldstein
I have some good news. Well, it seems like there's some interest in turning the Heavyweight podcast into a TV show. So I was just calling to see who maybe, you know, who you want to play. Jackie, I was thinking, you know, maybe Rita Marino, Jon Dawn.
Brandon
Jon.
Allie
No one's gonna watch your show, baby.
Jonathan Goldstein
What'd you just say?
Allie
You heard me.
Jonathan Goldstein
Wait, I'm confused on two counts. A, that you would say something so cruel.
Allie
Yeah.
Jonathan Goldstein
And that B, you would punctuate it with Babe. You know, a lot of people believe in this project. Why would you laugh at that?
Brandon
A lot of people believe in this project.
Jonathan Goldstein
From gimlet media. Hi, I'm jonathan goldstein, and this is heavyweight. Today's episode brandon, Right after the break. This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Jacob.
Jacob Goldstein
Hey, it's Jacob Goldstein from Business History. In our new series American Genius, we tell the stories of three great writers who changed the way business works in America. Our first episode is about Benjamin Franklin, who, among many other things, was a best selling business writer. Take a listen. He's writing this much later in his life, consciously creating this image of himself. And I do want to emphasize how unusual this model is at the time, this self made man myth, because you don't want to be self made. It's low class to be self made. You know, this idea that we have today is the opposite, right? And it comes from Franklin. Today there is the derisive term Nepo baiting.
Jonathan Goldstein
Well, exactly right.
Jacob Goldstein
And these days, if you are a billionaire, you had better have a Benjamin
Jonathan Goldstein
Franklin story about starting in a garage,
Jacob Goldstein
coming up with the idea from nothing. And here is Benjamin Franklin inventing it right before our eyes. This has been brought to you by Odoo. To listen to more of our American Genius series, listen to business history. New episodes release every Wednesday on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
Producer
What's the one thing you've never told anyone? People just like you tell all in a podcast called the Secret Room. If you're a true story fan who can't get enough of people's most intimate dreams, desires and regrets, check out the podcast. The Secret Room. Stories can be tragic, like witnessing the murder of a lover. Or hilarious, like hearing the nocturnal adventures of a sleepwalker. Or heartwarming, like the woman who found a whole new family in a most unexpected place with a DNA kit. Hear Mila's deathbed confession that her daughter's absent father is a movie star. Or about Jen's secret love affair with a man on death row. Or how Joey falls in erotic love with inanimate objects. The podcast has been lauded by people, the BBC, Buzzfeed, Elle magazine and Apple. People all around you carry the most amazing secrets and you're invited to the Secret Room for a front row seat to stories that may jar and amaze you. Find the Secret Room, a podcast about the stories no one ever tells anywhere. You get your podcasts.
Brandon
Yeah, we'll just roll in there and
Megan
see what's going on.
Jonathan Goldstein
This is Brandon. He's 33 years old and wearing a suit and string tie. His wife Megan is in a sundress, and together they're about to enter the new Palestine High School prom.
Megan (alternate speaker)
We'll mosey on up there then.
Jonathan Goldstein
Megan is the school's art teacher, but tonight she's chaperoning with Brandon as her date. She introduces him to the other teachers.
Megan (alternate speaker)
This is my husband, Brandon.
Brandon
Hi, everybody.
Megan (alternate speaker)
Hi.
Brandon
It's a pleasure.
Jonathan Goldstein
At a certain point, they're interrupted by the announcement of prom king and queen. Hey, hey, NK students. We're going to announce the prom king queen. While Megan congratulates her students and makes small talk with her colleagues, Brandon wanders off and observes the kids. Some are dancing. Some are lined up for the photo booth. There are kids talking to teachers and others gossiping among themselves. But then Brandon's gaze lands on another subset. Those aimless kids wandering along the margins alone. They remind Brandon of himself when he was a teenager in his own prom. Brandon thinks about his prom a lot and the improbable path that led him to it, which began when he was
Brandon
just a little kid through middle school and junior high. I had a lot of bullying problems. I was kind of an easy target.
Jonathan Goldstein
There were a number of things that made him one.
Brandon
First, I'm, like, still a big guy now, but I was. I was at my biggest in high school, heaviest.
Jonathan Goldstein
Second, Brandon tried too hard to fit in. Like the time he shaved a Nike swoosh into the back of his head.
Brandon
I just thought, like, sports. That's. That's cool.
Jonathan Goldstein
So it made your head look like a running shoe?
Brandon
Exactly. Yeah. I sat in front of this kid named Cyril and he said it looked like a hockey stick. And that was enough, that everyone was like, that's a hockey stick. That is not a Nike swoosh.
Jonathan Goldstein
Finally, Brandon was a coda. A child of deaf adults, his family attended a deaf church and spent a lot of time in the deaf community. He says he was brought up with different social norms, like volume.
Brandon
Like, volume is not a concern around deaf people in a deaf environment. And then, of course, it is around hearing people.
Jonathan Goldstein
So what does that mean? Like, any examples?
Brandon
Yeah, like school, where it's, like, time to be quiet. I was just constantly talking to myself or just vocalizing my thoughts, you know?
Jonathan Goldstein
Then in middle school, Brandon's parents divorced. There was less space for him, less attention paid to him. He drew inward.
Brandon
I think I wanted to put off a harder, like, you can't hurt me exterior than I really had on the inside. So wearing Hot Topic clothes, spiky things, black clothes, and trying to just, like, keep your hoodie on and get through the day.
Jonathan Goldstein
And for the most part, Brandon succeeded in going unnoticed until the spring of his senior year. Brandon was sitting at the back of A classroom during a free period, eavesdropping on a conversation from across the room. Some classmates were talking about prom. And among the group was a girl named Allie. She was going on about what a great night it was going to be, how excited she was.
Brandon
She had, like, long blonde hair with highlights, big features, like, big eyes. She had a big smile. Yeah, like, when she smiled, she looked really happy. And I think she kind of pulled me into the conversation by directing some of those questions at me, like, are you going to promise? Who are you going to prom with?
Jonathan Goldstein
Brandon had no intention of going. He hadn't a girlfriend, nor any prospects for a date. And he was confused about why Allie was talking to him. Brandon says they'd barely ever spoken. They were from totally different social worlds. Allie was in student government. She was popular and beautiful.
Brandon
She was just really well put together. Clean.
Jonathan Goldstein
And you?
Brandon
Hmm, no, that's not a word I'd use to describe myself in high school. I mean, like, I would, like, smell my clothes before I. Before I put them on in the morning. You know what I mean? Like, I got dressed from the floor.
Jonathan Goldstein
Okay.
Brandon
My bedroom. Know what I mean?
Jonathan Goldstein
Yeah. And yet Allie kept throwing questions at him. Why wasn't he going? If he did go, who would he take? Brandon answered in monosyllables, hoping she'd turn back to her friends and leave him alone. But instead, she rose from her seat and began striding towards him.
Brandon
Inside, I was like. Like inflamed. Do you know what I mean? Like, my heart. My heart rate was rising.
Jonathan Goldstein
With each question, Allie moved closer and closer until she was sitting at the desk in front of him, facing him. Then she did something that still flummoxes Brandon 15 years later.
Brandon
She just kind of outright said, take me to prom. Like, go to prom, take me. Let's go together. I immediately had questions. Questions like, why? Why me? What's going on? I guess I was skeptical. This was some kind of trick, you know? Why would you be asking me this other than to set me up for a punchline or something like that? But no punchline really came, so I just agreed.
Jonathan Goldstein
On the big night, Brandon met up with Ally and her friends for a pre dance dinner at her friend Jen's house. He was in the fancier part of town. Brandon showed up wearing his rented suit with a corsage and a bright blue necktie that matched Allie's dress. Before leaving to the dance, everyone lined up for a group picture. Did you, like, just feel like saying, why the heck am I here? Like, what happened? Was this a Mistake?
Brandon
Yeah. Yeah. I would have loved an answer to that question, but I would never have thought, couldn't fathom saying it, you know?
Jonathan Goldstein
Do you still have that prom photo that you guys took?
Brandon
No. To be honest, I'm not even sure I ever got it, so I don't think I ever even saw that picture.
Jonathan Goldstein
Hmm. What do you think you would see in that photo?
Brandon
I don't know. I mean, just imagining it makes me laugh.
Jonathan Goldstein
Yeah, why?
Brandon
It would be a line of like, beautiful high schoolers, you know, and like, me there just feels like if your eyes set on me for a little too long, that maybe you'd be able to see that I didn't fit in.
Jonathan Goldstein
Alliander friends looked like the girls in those movies about prom. And those girls always had guys who gave them the time of their lives. For Brandon, a sense of duty kicked in.
Brandon
It felt like a huge responsibility. It was like, this is going to be a big deal in Ally's life forever and I have a big responsibility as her date to make sure that I live up to this position. I was really, really nervous.
Jonathan Goldstein
Did you guys, did you and Allie slow dance?
Brandon
I'm pretty sure.
Jonathan Goldstein
I'm starting to feel like, I feel like when I ask these questions, I feel like Hannibal Lecter.
Brandon
Yeah.
Jonathan Goldstein
Like I'm asking you these questions from a straight jacket in a cell. Did you slow dance? Did you slow dance?
Brandon
I do remember slow dancing because I remember thinking, like, it's funny that in TV shows and in movies this is such a big deal, but it's just standing like you're kind of just like stepping slightly. Yeah, like that's not hard. Like I was in like a hip hop dance crew and youth group, you know, that was hard.
Jonathan Goldstein
Wait, you were in a. Sorry, repeat that you were in a hip hop dance youth group? What?
Brandon
Yeah, so the church I went to was just like there were a lot of performances and hip hop dance that happened.
Jonathan Goldstein
Did you ever at any point break out any of your Christian youth group hip hop moves on the dance floor? Do you do anything like on the floor? Like where you spin on your back or you didn't, you didn't want to ruin the rental, you wanted to get your deposit?
Brandon
Uh huh huh.
Jonathan Goldstein
At the Promise, Brandon popped for the Lord and locked for the Lord. He made Allie's friends laugh. And it was right there on the dance floor. The place one might expect a high school boy to feel the most self conscious that Brandon felt most at ease. He was a part of the group of a group.
Brandon
It kind of felt like A resolution of what all of grade school was like for me. You know, I never felt safe enough to bring my true self into that space. But like, dancing around at prom with your peers is like one of the most vulnerable things you can do. And it came out on the other end of it. Okay,
Jonathan Goldstein
At the end of the prom, Ally and all her friends headed to one of their classmates houses for the after party. But having never been to a house party, Brandon decided not to go. Do you remember saying goodbye to Ally?
Brandon
No.
Jonathan Goldstein
And then what happened after that? Do you recall speaking with her? Seeing her in school after that night?
Brandon
I had to have because we both went back to school. But I don't have any specific memories of talking to her again.
Jonathan Goldstein
Prom is supposed to stay with you for the rest of your life. And for Brandon, it has. But eclipsing the dancing, the music, the last night out with his peers is a lingering question which was like, why me?
Brandon
Out of all the people that you could be going with? Maybe it was one of those situations where all of these people out there are thinking, well, Allie's taken. She's totally going to prom with somebody already. I'll have to ask somebody else, you know, and then leaves her without a prom date. If that was what was going on, maybe. Maybe she just had a breakup. Maybe I was of a charity case.
Jonathan Goldstein
So you want, you want to ask her why? Why did she pick you?
Brandon
Yeah, exactly. I want to know that. Yeah, without her, I wouldn't have gone to prom. It would have just been another thing on my list of things I regret from high school, you know? But it's not on that list. It's on the shorter list of things that I feel went. Okay. Yeah, I'd like to thank her. I'm just nervous.
Jonathan Goldstein
Which is why Brandon has reached out to me. If you get nervous, I mean, I can always jump in.
Megan
Sure.
Jonathan Goldstein
I've just assumed I'm gonna be coming along to chaperone. After the break, I chaperone Brandon back to high.
Poet or Narrator
School.
Producer
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Allie
I love summer, but I do think there is a real FOMO of like, am I doing the best possible thing?
Producer
Yeah, sometimes I just gotta remind myself
Jonathan Goldstein
to open up the window, put on a bathing suit while I'm working, even if I'm not going to the pool.
Allie
You know, sit around your house just
Jonathan Goldstein
for fun, you know.
Producer
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Allie
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Megan (alternate speaker)
Want to be a star?
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Jonathan Goldstein
Before Brandon can ask Ally the question that's been on his mind since senior year, we first need to track her down. Her last name is Schmotes Schmutz. I'm just making that up Brandon's part of a Facebook group for his high school graduating class, and Allie's a member of the group as well. Does that mean that you can have a better chance of messaging her through that group?
Brandon
I mean, like, if I were going to use the group, it would be making a post for my whole graduating class to say.
Jonathan Goldstein
Might as well go big. Like, say, hey, I'm just gonna put this out there to everybody.
Brandon
Yeah, if you're not Ali, please don't read this.
Jonathan Goldstein
But, Allie, I just want to say. Hey, hit me up. Here are my digits. Everybody else just lose this number. Maybe Facebook friend her?
Brandon
I could do that, yeah. I'd have to change my name on Facebook. My name hasn't been my real name for a long time.
Jonathan Goldstein
What's the name that you operate under?
Brandon
Oak Tree.
Jonathan Goldstein
Just Oak Tree.
Brandon
Just Oak Tree.
Jonathan Goldstein
I can't even find you as brand. I'd have to look up Oak Tree.
Brandon
That's right. I was kind of playing with what kinds of words it lets me have as a name.
Jonathan Goldstein
Can you change your name from Oak Tree to Brandon?
Brandon
Probably a good idea.
Jonathan Goldstein
Then you don't have to start with a whole rigmarole about how, like, my name's not really Oak Tree. This is Brandon, by the way. You remember, from high school? And so the mighty Oak Tree sheds his leaves and his name, and the mighty Brandon sends Ally a friend request. A week later, Brandon texts with an update. Allie has accepted his friendship. Now he just needs to send her a message. Okay, so you've crafted something already?
Brandon
Yeah.
Jonathan Goldstein
Would you. Could you read it?
Brandon
Sure. Yeah. Hi, Allie.
Jonathan Goldstein
Good so far. Casual. Okay, cool, go ahead.
Brandon
Yeah. Hi, Ali. Maybe you'll remember me. We were prom dates our senior year.
Jonathan Goldstein
As Brandon reads me his draft, I focus my keen podcast producer's ear.
Brandon
By my recollection, it was your idea
Megan
for us to go to prom together.
Jonathan Goldstein
Now, let me. Sorry, let me hit pause there. Yeah, like the way that you're underlining your idea. You're not actually underlining that, though. I did Italicize was your idea for us to go to prom together. Is that what you're saying?
Brandon
Yeah. It sounds accusatory out loud. Yeah.
Jonathan Goldstein
So, yeah, maybe we'll de. Italicize that part. Okay, keep going. Brandon tells Ally that he still thinks about their prom. He says he wants to talk to her about it.
Producer
Would she be up for that?
Jonathan Goldstein
Okay. Okay, let's take a look at this here. Okay. So maybe you'll remember. As Brandon and I pore over the message, a worry suddenly pops into my head. I Wonder if there's a way to work in the fact that you're married.
Brandon
You know, how about just, I'm married, but I'll just start with it. Hey, listen, I'm taken.
Jonathan Goldstein
Speaking as a married man. Me and my wife were wondering. That is, my wife and I, we were wondering the other night after making love.
Brandon
Yeah. Seem to be doing good work, and I hope you're, well, all the best.
Jonathan Goldstein
Once we've crafted the perfect message, Brandon readies himself to hit send.
Megan
Should I go ahead and do it?
Jonathan Goldstein
Yeah, let's do it. Go ahead. Hit send.
Megan
Enter hit sent.
Jonathan Goldstein
Congratulations.
Megan
Thank you.
Jonathan Goldstein
A week later, Allie writes back. She's willing to talk, so that's good.
Brandon
It's a positive response. I
Jonathan Goldstein
look at you. You're. You're. You're giddy. You're giddy with expectation.
Allie
Yeah.
Brandon
Can you tell? Because I keep wiping my face and touching my eyes.
Jonathan Goldstein
Would it be fun to do it on a video call?
Megan
Sure. Sure.
Brandon
Yeah.
Jonathan Goldstein
Do you still have the suit that you wore to your prom?
Brandon
Yeah. I'll be like, I never took it off.
Jonathan Goldstein
Any things that you want me to bring up? Just kind of like conversationally awards or any upcoming projects that you want to promote or.
Brandon
No, keep it organic. Whatever.
Jonathan Goldstein
Cool, cool. I can keep it organic.
Brandon
Cool.
Producer
What's the one thing you've never told anyone? People just like you tell all in a podcast called the Secret Room. If you're a true story fan who can't get enough of people's most intimate dreams, desires, and regrets, check out the podcast the Secret Room. Stories can be tragic, like witnessing the murder of a lover. Or hilarious, like hearing the nocturnal adventures of a sleepwalker or. Or heartwarming, like the woman who found a whole new family in a most unexpected place with a DNA kit. Here, Mila's deathbed confession that her daughter's absent father is a movie star. Or about Jen's secret love affair with a man on death row. Or how Joey falls in erotic love with inanimate objects. The podcast has been lauded by People, the BBC, Buzzfeed, Elle magazine, and Apple. People all around you carry the most amazing secrets. And you're invited to the Secret Room for a front row seat to stories that may jar and amaze you. Find the Secret Room, a podcast about the stories no one ever tells anywhere. You get your podcasts.
Jonathan Goldstein
Hello.
Brandon
Hello.
Jonathan Goldstein
I'm getting a little bit of static on your end.
Brandon
Yeah. Hello? Better?
Jonathan Goldstein
Yeah. On the day of the video call with Allie, Brandon and I get on early and wait.
Brandon
It feels like I'm Getting back into the psyche of my high school self. Like I'm. Hi. Hi, Ali.
Allie
Hi.
Brandon
How are you?
Allie
Good.
Jonathan Goldstein
Allie smiles a big smile full of big white teeth. She's wearing a blue patterned blouse that matches the blue of her nails.
Brandon
I'll just tell you what I've seen on your profile. You live in Carmel and you have a baby.
Allie
I have two daughters, a three year old and a two year old.
Brandon
Awesome.
Allie
They're right here on my wall.
Jonathan Goldstein
Brandon and Allie, catch up.
Allie
The Midwest is just such a nice place to raise a family. It's recruiting, but there's like a sales element. And then of course, the grandparents are here.
Brandon
Yeah, I figured that was part of it. Being close to family. It's a huge resource.
Allie
They're always willing to help out.
Jonathan Goldstein
Brandon's question hasn't gotten any easier to ask since high school. In fact, it's gotten harder. After a pause of a few minutes or even a few days, one can feign casualness. By the way, why'd you choose me? But to ask after 15 years, there's no way to by the way, your way through it. But eventually.
Brandon
So can I ask you some questions?
Allie
Absolutely, I guess.
Brandon
First, like, what are your memories of me in high school?
Allie
Yeah. So I was trying to think of this. Did we ever have any classes together?
Brandon
Probably not.
Allie
Yeah, so we met senior year, right?
Brandon
I think so.
Jonathan Goldstein
Allie doesn't remember much, but one thing she does remember is that day in the back of the classroom.
Allie
We were talking about prom, you know, as seniors do. And I think you had. You were like not into going to prom, right? You're like, no, I'm not going to go.
Brandon
Yeah, I remember, like you had to really spell it out. You were like, are you going to prom? You're not. Okay. Like if you were, would you be going with someone?
Megan
No.
Brandon
Okay. And then eventually you were like, you and me can go to prom. Like, why don't we go to prom?
Allie
You know, that's funny.
Jonathan Goldstein
And then Brandon asks his question, sort of.
Brandon
Like, at any point, did you consider having. Having someone else as a date?
Allie
Well, I would have been totally comfortable going by myself. So I don't have any memories of thinking like, I'm gonna ask Brandon. And then if that doesn't work, I'm gonna ask. So and so they're just kinda like, I'm gonna ask Brandon.
Jonathan Goldstein
Hmm.
Brandon
That is surprising. I guess because I thought like that it was like spur of the moment. Like your friends were hearing this for the first time too.
Allie
No, no, I was very obsessed with my friends. So I'm sure that I ran it by them. So you passed the friend test.
Jonathan Goldstein
Brandon grows quiet. It wasn't a prank. It wasn't pity. Allie planned to ask him. What's more, she wasn't going to take no for an answer.
Allie
I do remember, like, you did say no. I remember you saying no. And I'm like, oh, yeah, but give him a day. I'm gonna make him go, he's gonna go with me. But yeah, you were just surprised by the fact that I asked you.
Brandon
I mean, yeah, definitely.
Allie
Hmm.
Jonathan Goldstein
Allie pauses, trying to find the right words.
Allie
You made me laugh a lot. And I remember that you were just, you know, fun to be around and goofy. And you smiled at me a lot. I remember that. You know, like, I liked being around you, and if I made a joke, you would laugh at it. You know, he made me feel like I was funny, which is a great quality. You got me a corsage. I remember that. I remember not expecting you to get me a corsage and thinking, that was really nice. I do remember that. Isn't that silly? That, like, I don't remember a lot, but I remember that.
Jonathan Goldstein
So, you know, I'm gonna be a little blunt here, because. Sure. Was there anything else to it? Like, was there an element of something romantic?
Allie
So we probably flirted, right. But I don't know. I mean, friendship is really just the main. The main feeling that I can recall. I'm not saying that there wasn't. You know, I mean, I don't know, you're a teenager, you're feeling all kinds of things. I'm sure there were moments where I was like, oh, is this a thing? You know, is this turning into this?
Brandon
Yeah, that. I think that I would have found that really hard to believe as a kid, you know, that would have gone against the narrative of school and what people thought of me that I had.
Allie
I don't know, I guess to some extent I knew that we were. I want to be honest, I knew that there. That some people were surprised by the fact that we were going together. Right. I do remember one time when I told some dude in my physics class, I can't remember that I was going with Brandon. And they're like, wait, what? And I was like, yeah. And they're like, that's weird. And I'm like, you're weird.
Jonathan Goldstein
While Brandon remembers himself as a misfit, Allie remembers someone who was different than a lot of the other guys in high school. Brandon made wry jokes. He was sweet and self deprecating. She remembers Things that Brandon doesn't, she says. There was one time Brandon did a whole monologue about how he found it hard to drive because of his fear of hitting birds. In other words, Allie asked him to prom for the one reason Brandon never considered. She just wanted to go with him.
Brandon
Did you have a good time, eprom? Because I really wanted that for you. I spent a lot of time thinking, like, that's my role.
Megan
I'm the date.
Brandon
Here I go. You know?
Jonathan Goldstein
Yeah. Allie grows thoughtful.
Allie
I guess I didn't even think that because I. I mean, I talked you into it, right? So then here you are, kind of not stuck, but, like.
Brandon
Yeah.
Allie
Feeling like you wanted to make it special for me because I was the one that was all about it. Yeah, I guess I never even thought about that. I just think, Brandon, you're just so much more thoughtful, you know, just thoughtful about the whole experience. And I do want to thank you because that's so nice that you were thinking it was your duty to try to make sure I had the prom I wanted to have. Yeah.
Brandon
I honestly didn't even expect to be thanked from you for anything. I feel like I have to thank you because there's something really simple and superficial about this, but it felt really real that I finished high school as a person who went to prom. I got to go. I got to have a fun time and forget the misfit feelings I was having.
Allie
That's awesome. That's so awesome to hear you say that. That's really nice.
Brandon
My life started to really just, like, blossom and grow, like, from, like, the moment high school was over. And I guess. I guess I can't say for certain what that part of my life would have looked like had I not had the prom experience. But I can't say it was totally irrelevant.
Jonathan Goldstein
Was it out of that and kind of, like, into that period that you ended up meeting your wife, Megan?
Brandon
Yeah, it was like that phase of life when Meg and I met.
Megan (alternate speaker)
Her dress is so cute. She looks beautiful.
Jonathan Goldstein
This is Megan, Brandon's wife, looking at a photo of Ally from prom night.
Megan (alternate speaker)
She looks amazing. She looks great.
Jonathan Goldstein
After getting off the video call, Ally sent the group photo from promotion. Megan studies it while seated beside Brandon.
Megan (alternate speaker)
It's also, like, so cute to see you flanked by these, like. I mean, I'm sorry, they're in high school, so I don't really feel like I should be calling them hot babes, but you know what I mean, like, from the high school perspective. You lucky, lucky man.
Jonathan Goldstein
But as Brandon looks at the photo, I imagine it isn't his date or the other kids that he's focused on so much as he's focused on the big guy in the middle and all the baggage that guy was carrying.
Brandon
There's a lot of weird stuff about, like, my weight and growing up, like, dieting and, like, my mom, like, putting me on a scale. And it was like, you're over this line. You know, you're unattractive.
Jonathan Goldstein
And what does it make you to feel like Megan to hear that?
Megan (alternate speaker)
It makes me feel very protective, for sure. I think if we don't, we rarely really get into squabbles, but if ever we do, what really disarms me is, like, thinking about that, like, little, like, young Brandon. I feel like that happened not even that long ago. Do you remember we were, like, standing at the kitchen and I started crying, and I was just, like. I had been so resentful and mad at you for a minute, and then I just, like, was imagining you being like, a little kid and having other, like, adults in his life not really tend to, like, the difficulties of that as well as they should have. I think about him just having to, like, navigate those insecurities alone.
Jonathan Goldstein
But Brandon no longer has to navigate them alone. A few weeks ago, before chaperoning the prom with Megan, Brandon went to the tailor. He wanted to wear his wedding suit and needed her to let it out.
Brandon
She was, like, down on her knees, like, looking at it, pulling the pants in different ways, and then said, okay, go ahead and open the pants up so I can see how much we can let out. And I don't know why, but I wasn't wearing underwear. I didn't wear underwear to the tailor. I guess I didn't think that she was going to Brandon be asking that. So, yeah, she asked me to open the pants, and I was like, right now? And she was like, yep, go ahead. And I just said, I can't do that right now, if you know what I mean.
Jonathan Goldstein
Wow.
Brandon
I know, I know. And I don't think. I'm honestly not sure if she knew what I meant, but she dropped it and said, okay, I think we'll just let it out all the way, and that'll probably be enough. It was awful. It was awful.
Jonathan Goldstein
Brandon was spiraling. So as soon as he left, he sent Megan a text at school asking her to call him.
Brandon
And when she called me, I was fixing a flat. I got a flat tire on the way home. It was just, like, a shitty afternoon. So I was fixing a flat and telling her what it was like at the Tailor. And then we hung up. And then she texted me later and just said, like, I, I, I love you, and I love the way your body looks. And. And I, I don't think it's weird that you didn't wear underwear. I don't wear underwear either. It was just like a. You know what I mean? She was supportive. That fixed it almost immediately for me.
Allie
Hmm.
Megan (alternate speaker)
Well, I taught him to go commando, so I feel partially.
Jonathan Goldstein
What did you make of Brandon's question that he's. That he's had through the years? Why did Allie invite him to the prom in the first place?
Megan (alternate speaker)
It didn't have to be a mystery. It makes perfect sense to me that somebody who looks like Allie could like the person who she's standing next to.
Jonathan Goldstein
You. Brandon says the biggest difference between his two proms was that with Megan, he didn't spend the whole night wondering why the person by his side had chosen him. He's just happy she did.
Brandon
I was comfortable the whole time.
Jonathan Goldstein
How could you not be comfortable? I mean, you weren't wearing underpants.
Brandon
The ultimate.
Jonathan Goldstein
Sam.
Poet or Narrator
Now that the furniture's returning to its Goodwill home, now that the last month's rent is scheming with the damaged deposit, take this moment to decide if we meant it, if we tried
Jonathan Goldstein
or felt
Poet or Narrator
around for far too much from things that accidentally touch.
Jonathan Goldstein
Brandon. Hey.
Producer
Hello.
Jonathan Goldstein
Hi.
Megan
I can't believe it's been over four years.
Jonathan Goldstein
Last time I spoke to you, you were speaking to me from. What did you call it? Your man cave? Your.
Megan
I didn't remember telling you, but it was called the Chill zone.
Jonathan Goldstein
The Chill Zone. That's right.
Brandon
It's right there.
Jonathan Goldstein
Wait, so you're not in the chill zone?
Megan
No, I'm in the office.
Jonathan Goldstein
Okay. Because the chill zone is for chilling,
Producer
it's not for recording.
Megan
Well, it's changing its purpose now. It's for the bedtime routine with the new baby boy.
Jonathan Goldstein
You really buried the lead on that one. So you have a baby?
Megan
Yeah, we have a baby.
Producer
Wow.
Megan
Yeah, it's so exciting. She's growing and learning so fast. She's noticing things.
Jonathan Goldstein
Does she like pulling on your mustache?
Megan
She hasn't found my mustache in that way yet, but she's really into containers, Just putting containers in containers, taking something out of a container, putting in a different one. And she can do that for, like, an hour. And I can just sit there and watch her and try not to help if she's trying to put something too big into small container, you know, just watching her.
Jonathan Goldstein
Yeah.
Megan
It's so exciting.
Jonathan Goldstein
Wonderful. That's so. That's so nice to hear.
Producer
Well, that's.
Jonathan Goldstein
That's the headline. Are there. Have there been any other changes since we last spoke? Hmm.
Megan
I actually listened to the Brandon episode of Heavyweight yesterday just to have it be fresh in my mind.
Jonathan Goldstein
Yeah. And what was that like?
Megan
It's fun.
Brandon
I feel like when I was first
Megan
hearing it, I cringe and I cringed a lot less yesterday.
Jonathan Goldstein
Well, why do you think that is?
Megan
Time, I think. I mean, I feel a lot different than I did four years ago.
Jonathan Goldstein
How? In what ways?
Megan
About a year before Robin was born, Meg and I started going to this meeting. It's like we'd get together with these people and do something called qigong, which is like, breathing and moving. It's kind of like tai chi, but kind of exercise y. And then there's a meditation portion, and there's this concept called no pretending. We would be like, are we pretending with ourselves in our minds? Do we pretend when we talk to other people? And I realized that I do pretend to other people.
Brandon
Thinking about how I want to come
Megan
across and drawing awareness to that helped me to do it less.
Jonathan Goldstein
Were there certain things that you feel like that you were pretending at?
Brandon
I'm trying to think of a good
Megan
way to explain that, Dora. Oh. You know, one day I realized I was like, if I'm walking up to the door of a gas station, we're going into the gas station, and there's a stranger walking in at the same time. And it seems like we might arrive at more or less the same time. I was fast to jump out of the way. You know, you first. You first. And I don't do that sort of thing as much.
Jonathan Goldstein
You feel less apologetic for just being around existing. Yeah.
Brandon
Yeah.
Megan
Less about finding a place where I can fit to disturb other people as little as possible, and more now feeling like I'm actually here. I'm not just smoke, you know, I exist here, and I'm moving around, and I can do and say what I want, and other people will react however they want react, and that doesn't mean I should have said or done something different.
Jonathan Goldstein
Yeah.
Brandon
So I feel more confident, more, I
Megan
guess, just in tune with what I actually think and what I'm actually feeling. And I feel like a much different person than I did four years ago.
Jonathan Goldstein
In a good way.
Brandon
Yeah.
Jonathan Goldstein
Do you think the Brandon of today would have pursued that story?
Megan
Yeah, I do think so, yeah.
Brandon
Yeah.
Jonathan Goldstein
Does the Brandon of today wear underwear?
Megan
I've got a couple pairs for special occasions.
Jonathan Goldstein
Is this a special occasion?
Brandon
No, it's not.
Jonathan Goldstein
It isn't?
Brandon
No.
Jonathan Goldstein
Okay.
Megan
No.
Jonathan Goldstein
You have a 20 year high school reunion coming up.
Megan
This is the year for my 20th reunion. Yeah.
Jonathan Goldstein
If it's happening, are you gonna go?
Megan
I would love to go.
Jonathan Goldstein
Have you been in touch with Ally?
Megan
No, I have not. But I wondered if I might see her at this reunion. And, you know, I wanted to say before we go, when I was listening to the episode yesterday, I felt grateful. It brought me kind of an outside perspective on that period of my life which I wouldn't have had without that
Brandon
or, you know, and I don't think
Megan
I would have reached out to Ali on my own. And it was a good lesson to learn that despite what I was going through as a teenager, that I was still me. That's the big takeaway I had from listening to it. You know, when she said you were sweet and you smiled at me and you laughed at my jokes. That's a good quality. That's some of the things I remember her saying from when I listened. But I don't know how that hit me at the time. I can't remember. But listening to it now, I thought,
Brandon
that sounds like me.
Megan
The real me was still there. It was still coming out.
Jonathan Goldstein
Yeah.
Megan
So thank you.
Producer
Well, thank you.
Jonathan Goldstein
Thank you for saying that and for lending yourself to it so wholeheartedly. Will you say hi to Meg for me?
Megan
I will.
Jonathan Goldstein
Brandon, it was really nice to see you.
Megan
Thank you. Have a good day.
Jonathan Goldstein
You too. You too. Enjoy your baby.
Megan
I will. I will.
Jonathan Goldstein
Thanks to everyone who originally put this episode together.
Producer
We'll be back with another update in two weeks time and if you want, you can sign up for our free newsletter. It's absolutely free and it's available at patreon.com/highweight. Stevie.
Stevie Lane
Yeah.
Jonathan Goldstein
What do we have in store in the newsletter?
Stevie Lane
We got some recommendations, things that we've liked, and there's hyperlinks.
Producer
Yes.
Jonathan Goldstein
Parenthetically, I don't know that I've been hyperlinking properly in the newsletter.
Producer
Like you can actually like hyperlink from a word, right?
Jonathan Goldstein
Yeah, but I put the full URL. I'm old school.
Stevie Lane
That's all right.
Jonathan Goldstein
It's only recently that I've started pronouncing it URL. I used to just pronounce it as URL.
Producer
Do you know what URL stands for?
Jonathan Goldstein
Ooh, you really love our newsletter. URL. Our newsletter.
Stevie Lane
And speaking of the URL for the newsletter is.
Producer
It's@patreon.com heavyweight
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Producer
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Jonathan Goldstein
This is an iHeart podcast, Guaranteed Human.
Host: Jonathan Goldstein
Produced by: Pushkin Industries
This episode revisits the story of Brandon, whose original episode centered on a simple-but-haunting question from high school: Why did the popular girl, Allie, invite him—the misfit—to prom? Four years after their first conversation, Jonathan Goldstein catches up with Brandon to see how his life, relationship, and sense of self have evolved since facing his past. The episode unfolds as a delicate exploration of memory, insecurity, gratitude, and change, with Jonathan’s signature blend of warmth, wit, and gentle nudging.
| Timestamp | Segment Description | |-----------|-------------------------------------------------------------------| | 06:08 | Brandon and Megan chaperoning prom; Brandon reflects on high school| | 09:03 | Bullying, misfit feelings, and trying to fit in | | 11:19 | Allie invites Brandon to prom—his skepticism | | 21:36 | Brandon’s Facebook username “Oak Tree” | | 24:16 | Allie responds, agrees to talk | | 26:50 | Video call: Brandon and Allie reconnect | | 28:51 | Allie explains why she asked Brandon to prom | | 33:12 | Brandon’s gratitude for the experience | | 35:13 | Megan reflects on Brandon’s childhood insecurities | | 36:12 | Brandon’s mortifying tailor story | | 40:38 | Update: Megan and Brandon have a baby | | 41:48 | Megan and Brandon discuss meditation, confidence, and “no pretending”| | 44:27 | Brandon’s realization: he was still himself, even as a misfit |
True to Heavyweight’s trademark, the episode is thoughtful, often funny, and emotionally gentle—using Jonathan’s dry humor and compassionate questioning to coax out honest self-reflection from the guests. The rapport among Brandon, Megan, and Jonathan is playful and self-aware, and Allie’s presence is gracious and warm.
This episode isn’t just about finding out why Allie chose Brandon for prom, but about the deeper journey of seeing oneself through less critical eyes. Brandon’s story is ultimately about being chosen, learning to believe that you are worthy, and discovering that “the real me was still there”—despite the insecurities and judgments of youth.
“It was a good lesson to learn that despite what I was going through as a teenager, that I was still me. ... The real me was still there. It was still coming out.”
—Brandon (44:57)