2026 Update: Skye

Summary

Heavyweight – Episode: 2026 Update: Skye (April 23, 2026)

Episode Overview

This episode of Heavyweight, hosted by Jonathan Goldstein, revisits one of the podcast’s most impactful stories: Sky’s confrontation with a long-standing childhood trauma involving her former friend group. The central theme is closure, courage, and the nuanced process of healing past wounds—not just for oneself, but for one’s family. The episode provides a seven-year update, exploring the ripples of that original encounter through Sky, her son Clark (now a college student), and Tessa, the only one of the four ex-friends who agreed to speak. With humor, heart, and Jonathan's signature gentle prodding, the episode examines the power of kindness, the complexity of memory, and the generational lessons we pass down.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Setting the Stage & Episode Background (00:13–02:01)

• Revisiting a Classic: Jonathan and his co-host prepare listeners for an update to the beloved “Sky” episode, highlighting its universality—childhood bullying, loss of friends, and the longing for resolution.
• The Story's Uniqueness: Sky’s story stands out for involving her son, Clark, who prompted her to confront the past. “What we really liked about Sky's story is that… she was doing it at the encouragement of her son.” (Co-host, 00:52)

2. Sky’s Childhood Story & The Original Hurt (06:54–14:23)

• Childhood Friendship Gone Wrong: Sky recounts her 11-year-old self’s world shattering when her best friends TP'd her yard and spray-painted "fuck you" on her family’s garage. Her mother, Rachel, witnessed the event, but Sky avoided confrontation, and the incident was never discussed.
• Impact of Bullying: “TPing someone's house is one thing… But the fact that they wrote fuck you, that felt to me like it really came from anger.” (Sky, 10:13)
• Passing Down The Lesson: Sky always presented this story to Clark as one with a “happy ending.” When he turned the same age, Clark begins to challenge that narrative, wondering why his mom never sought answers and pushing her to confront it, both as a way of standing up for herself and as a lesson for him.

3. Family Reflections: Rachel and Clark's Perspectives (14:23–19:21)

• Rachel’s Regrets: Rachel recalls that she thought Sky had moved on, not realizing the wound had remained open. “It broke my heart… we felt it was over. And for her it really wasn’t.” (Rachel, 16:32)
• Clark’s Mission: Clark wants his mom to “avenge” herself—to stop being “timid Mommy” and demand accountability. “He said at the end, mom, you've got to figure this out.” (Sky, 14:08)
• Generational Lessons: Rachel marvels at Clark’s clarity and assumption that things can be set right. “There’s something authoritative about a child… they're not all hammered by doubts.” (Rachel, 18:34)

4. Sky’s Initial Attempts at Reconnection (23:52–27:01)

• Contacting the Four Friends: Sky, with Jonathan’s help, reaches out to Sam, Nikki, Randy, and Tessa, learning how much—or how little—they remember and how resistant people are to revisit childhood mistakes.
• Memorable Email Excerpt: When Randy finally responds to Sky after multiple messages, she shares, “It makes me cringe to think about how semi creepy and weird it must have seemed to get those messages. Ugh, I'm kicking myself for letting that happen.” (Sky, 26:23) Clark criticizes his mom’s apologetic tone, encouraging her to stand her ground.
• Reluctance & Rejection: Most friends either don’t remember or want distance; only Tessa ultimately agrees to meet—once their real names are protected.

5. The Confrontation: Sky & Tessa’s Meeting (33:17–47:29)

• The Build-Up and Nerves: The group, including Jonathan and Clark for support, heads to California. Sky invents the word “nervicited”—a portmanteau of nervous and excited—to describe her emotions. (32:03)
• First Questions and Memories: Tessa admits to vaguely remembering the night as just another “TPing” outing and not knowing the impact. “We literally just stumbled upon your home. Interesting. And that's what I remember.” (Tessa, 37:22)
• Clark’s Gentle Prodding: From the control room—and then in person—Clark asks the questions his mom is hesitant to voice: “Did you feel in any way like dragged into it?” (Clark, 43:39)
• Tessa’s Honesty and Empathy: Tessa reflects on peer pressure, her own passivity, and the toxic group dynamic, ultimately telling Sky: “Honey, you frickin dodged a bullet. That's what you did. Not being with those girls.” (Tessa, 44:50)
• Moment of Apology and Forgiveness: Tessa apologizes for Sky feeling responsible for 35 years for something that was never her fault: “The thought of you thinking for 35 years that you had done something wrong is like, ugh… I really don't think you did anything.” (Tessa, 46:19)

6. Intergenerational Impact & Aftermath (47:39–49:58)

• Clark’s Growth: After the meeting, Clark admits his anxiety was to protect his mom from further hurt but is struck by Tessa’s kindness. “You weren't timid, Mommy. You were brave, Mommy.” (Clark, 48:14)
• On Moving Forward: Sky acknowledges that without Clark’s push, she’d never have confronted her past. The experience models for Clark—now and for his future—a different kind of strength: kindness without timidity.

7. Seven Years Later: The 2026 Update (50:35–55:58)

• Life Since the Reunion: Sky and Jonathan connect via video call. Clark is now 19 and in college, studying political science, still passionate about justice.
• Tessa’s Follow-Through: Tessa reports her daughter (now almost 20) no longer resents the meeting—seven years makes a difference. “She did not remember being mad at me, and she said she was thankful and happy that I took part in that. Seven years makes a huge difference.” (Tessa, via text read by Sky, 52:00)
• Clark’s Reflections: Clark sends in a voice message, expressing appreciation: “Kind of helping my mom get closure about a story that she used to tell me when I was growing up... It was a really great time, great experience, and I'm glad to have had it.” (Clark, 55:17)
• Lingering Feelings: Sky is at peace, feeling forgiveness, while Clark still wishes the other girls had taken accountability. “He feels like they didn’t take accountability for what happened, and that’s really still frustrating to him... I can’t argue with him about his feelings.” (Sky, 53:44)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “The good ending hasn’t happened. Now it’s sort of turning into a different story, which is… it’s kind of never too late to summon courage and do something that scares you.” – Sky (19:40)
• “You gotta be like, you did this, and do you remember why it happened? And say sorry to me.” – Clark (13:52)
• “She always understood how to fit in with people, completely unlike her parents. … What happened with the girls… had the effect of making her… pulling in her wings.” – Rachel (16:32)
• “There’s something authoritative about a child. They haven’t had… doubts and worries… They’re like, well, why didn’t you do this?” – Rachel (18:34)
• “Do you feel like your default is to apologize for having reached out?” – Jonathan (26:42)
• “I think you were overapologetic... That automatically makes her, basically, like, gives her power. That’s bad.” – Clark (27:06)
• “Maybe you were a little different than them… Maybe you didn’t want to go along with what they were doing.” – Tessa (40:56)
• “Honey, you frickin dodged a bullet.” – Tessa (44:50)
• “You weren't timid, Mommy. You were brave, Mommy.” – Clark (48:14)
• “Not everything we do in life is for us. It’s for other people as well.” – Tessa, about explaining her choice to talk to Sky to her own daughter (45:54)
• “You know, I sort of—at first when he said to me, ‘I'm still mad at those girls,’ there was a part of me that felt disappointed because, like, I don't feel that way.” – Sky (53:44)
• “I think he felt fondness for Tessa for showing up... but as far as the other three girls who didn't show up, he's still really mad at them.” – Sky (53:34)
• Clark’s parting words: “I think it's really cool that you guys are doing this episode to revisit the podcast we did all those years ago. That's a really cool memory for me that I really cherish.” (Clark, 55:17)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:13 – Show intro & premise of the update episode
• 06:54 – Rachel & Sky reflect on the “Happy Birthday” call and ease into the main story
• 08:35 – Sky recounts the summer that changed everything
• 12:18 – Clark questions his mom’s narrative; the generational handoff of trauma and healing
• 14:23 – Rachel’s background and heartfelt reflection
• 23:52 – The attempted reconnections with each friend
• 33:17 – The climactic meeting: Sky and Tessa face-to-face
• 43:39 – Clark questions Tessa directly; sincerity and new understanding
• 46:19 – Tessa's apology and closing of the circle
• 48:14 – Clark’s transformation: pride in “brave Mommy”
• 50:35 – Seven years later: Sky and Jonathan catch up, Tessa’s daughter reflects
• 55:17 – Clark’s college-age voice message, closing the loop

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Tone and Takeaways

The tone throughout is reflective, warm, and gently comedic—characteristically Heavyweight—with Jonathan’s wry narration, the candid family dynamics, and honest, sometimes awkward, but ultimately healing conversations. The update reveals:

• Healing can be slow but possible, even when others refuse to participate.
• Kindness, not aggression, can be a form of courage.
• The act of confronting the past can be as much for those who come after as for oneself.

The “Skye” update is a testament to Heavyweight’s knack for transforming personal pain into a universal story of growth and forgiveness—showing listeners it's never too late to ask, to listen, and to heal.

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Transcript

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Pushkin.

[Co-host]

Hi.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Hello.

[Co-host]

I think people probably know the drill. We're gonna revisit an old episode and we're gonna have an update.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

That's not good broadcasting. No, you don't say to people they know the drill. You tell them the drill. You use your. Your powers as a storyteller.

[Co-host]

Hey, everyone, here's the drill.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

And drills are exciting. Think of a fire drill. When you were in elementary school, how great was that?

[Co-host]

You're getting out of class, especially if

[Jonathan Goldstein]

you were in gym, like, you ran outside in the winter snow in your shorts. It was great. So, yeah, here's the drill.

[Co-host]

Today we're gonna re listen to an episode called Sky.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Ah, it's a classic episode.

[Co-host]

You know, we get a lot of pitches about being cut out of friend groups, about being bullied in some way. I think it's unfortunately, like a pretty common story that a lot of people can relate to. But what we really liked about Sky's story is that we really liked that it involved her son and that she was doing it at the encouragement of her son.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

And now that same son from the story, get this. This is a bit of a spoiler alert. He's now an adult.

[Co-host]

Yeah, a young adult.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

That's what time will do to you.

[Co-host]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Make a little kid a young man. Make an old man like me an even older man.

[Sky]

Yep.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Sad, really.

[Co-host]

You remember the Joey episode?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

I do, of course.

[Co-host]

Do you remember how you. You did sky and Joey on the same trip?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Oh, yeah, that's right.

[Co-host]

You did just like a week of knocking out people's problems.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

So productive. So helpful.

[Rachel (Sky's mom)]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

I should have a private jet. And on the side it would say Mr. Helpful.

[Co-host]

And when you took off, people would clap like Superman and they'd say, thank you, Mr. Helpful.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Do you think there's room in the marvel universe for Mr. Helpful?

[Co-host]

It's not the catchiest name.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

The power of helping people.

[Co-host]

Well, sit back, enjoy, and then we're going to hear from sky at the end.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Oh, but first, a word from our sponsors.

[Sky]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.

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[Jonathan Goldstein]

lot of people are looking for ways to spend a little less time scrolling and a little more time learning something new. That's exactly what Blinkist is built for. Blinkist takes the world's best nonfiction books and distills them into 15 minute reads or listens. So whether you're into psychology, history, science, business or personal development, you can go through the key ideas from an entire book in about 15 minutes. It fits into your day really easily. Commuting, walking, traveling, anytime you'd normally be listening to something anyway, It's a simple way to learn more about the world without needing a ton of extra time. Right now, Blinkist is offering a free trial plus 30% off for our listeners. Go to blinkist.com heavyweight start your free trial and get an additional 30% off your subscription. That's blinkist.com heavyweight hey everyone. When Heavyweight returned last year, we were so encouraged by the heartfelt messages from you, our dear listeners. I can safely say that without you, Heavyweight wouldn't exist today. So thank you. And if you want to take your valuable support to an even higher invaluable level, consider signing up for Pushkin Plus. It makes us look good to our bosses. And you'll get to listen to Heavyweight ad free because you'll be the Sponsor plus. And this is what really puts the plus in Pushkin Plus. You'll also get bonus material. If you want to get 25% off an annual Pushkin plus subscription, head to Pushkin FM plus and use the code HEAVY25. Thanks for your support. Hi, podcast friends. As regular listeners know, I try to run a family friendly ish podcast, but because it's integral to the plot, in this episode of Heavyweight, we drop the F bomb an unprecedented nine times. If they were giving out Peabody's for swearing, maybe I'd get one. Also, as long as I'm giving advisories, I also pronounce the word garage as garage. I encourage you to listen anyway.

[Rachel (Sky's mom)]

Hello.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Did you get a message from me a couple months ago? A phone message? It was on your birthday. I was wishing you a happy birthday.

[Rachel (Sky's mom)]

It's possible.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

I didn't hear anything back, so I was concerned.

[Rachel (Sky's mom)]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

When someone leaves you a message on your birthday, you have no obligation to return that message.

[Rachel (Sky's mom)]

Oh, good.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

But that said, oh, my God, it would have been nice to get. I'm not saying a thank you card, but, you know.

[Rachel (Sky's mom)]

So if I was under no obligation,

[Jonathan Goldstein]

why are you now giving me suggestions

[Rachel (Sky's mom)]

as to how I should have responded?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Some things in life aren't obligatory, but we just do them. You know what I mean?

[Rachel (Sky's mom)]

Absolutely. Like picking up the phone when I just saw that you called me.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Exactly. Like, hey, wait a minute. From gimlet media, I'm jonathan goldstein, and this is heavyweight. Today's episode, sky. Sky and her son Clark have a ritual. Every night after his teeth are brushed and he's all tucked in, right before Clark goes to sleep, sky sits down on the edge of his bed and they talk.

[Sky]

What was your favorite part of that movie?

[Clark (Sky's son)]

Probably, like, the end.

[Sky]

It was a good ending.

[Clark (Sky's son)]

Also, the helicopter scene was good.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Clark's 11, so naturally, there's a lot of discussion about comic books and movies.

[Sky]

I think it was, you know, the original Jumanji was not funny.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

But there's something about the stillness of nighttime that also frees Clark up to speak in a way that he doesn't normally. Not only does he tell sky about what he's watching and reading, he tells her about his feelings. He shares stories about what's going on at school. And sky shares stories, too. Stories from her childhood. Some stories she tells just to entertain Clark, but other stories she tells to impart a lesson. There's one story in particular she's told Clark over and over again throughout the years. And lately it's been coming up a lot. Recently, sky told me the story.

[Sky]

So the story, in a way, the story starts when I moved.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

When she was 11 years old, sky was best friends with a group of four girls. They wore Esprit sweatshirts and watched Love Boat on The weekends, they were the popular girls.

[Sky]

That was sort of the vibe of that group was like, we're exclusive and we're kind of the shit.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Yeah.

[Sky]

You know how, like, in high school they have, you know, most beautiful and most popular and all of those. We decided to make our own book of, you know, awarding people various prizes. We gave me best eyes, and I remember sort of having this pride in

[Jonathan Goldstein]

that they spent all of fifth grade together. Then summer came, and with it, long days filled with lazy bike rides and trips to the candy shop. But early one summer morning, sky woke up to find her yard had been teepeed covered in toilet paper. And there was more.

[Sky]

Someone had written fuck you on our garage door. And we had a double garage. And so fuck was on one and you was on the other. And they were written in large white letters on our brown garage.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Sky's mom had seen the vandals make their getaway. The words fuck you had been written by none other than Sky's four best

[Sky]

friends, and they had been written in paint. I. I wish they had done it with something that had come off, because I do remember this feeling of, like, being driven home day after day and seeing those words on the garage door. TPing someone's house is one thing. It's sort of a common prank. But the fact that they wrote fuck you, that felt to me like it really came from anger. And they had to have brought the paint. You know, there had to have been some thought put into this.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Why had they done it? What were they angry about? Sky had no idea. Did you ever see those girls again?

[Sky]

Well, I saw them again for sure. We all funneled into this junior high school that fall, and I think that I just avoided them. I never, ever said a word to any of the four girls ever again. I. I pretended it never happened.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

And when sky tells Clark this story, here's where she delivers the moral. Awful things do happen, but in the end, everything turns out fine. Sky grew up, got married, has a job she likes and a family she loves. Her story, she tells him, has a happy ending. In the past, when he's heard this story, Clark's taken his mom's lesson at face value. But Clark is now the same age sky was when her friends turned on her. He's starting to see his own classmates leave old friends behind for the more popular crowd. For the first time, he's able to imagine what it would be like if his own small group of friends suddenly cast him out, stopped coming over to his house to play video games, stopped speaking to him Altogether. So Sky's moral that everyone lives happily ever after is starting to feel untrue. And so Clark has a question for his mother. Why didn't she ever confront her friends about what they did? Why not then? But also, he asks sky, why not now?

[Clark (Sky's son)]

Like, did they do it for themselves or because of you? Or was it because of, like, something you did or something?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Clark brings up Sky's story during their bedtime ritual, asking for details, weighing the injustice, fantasizing about sky looking up her old friends and confronting them with some questions.

[Clark (Sky's son)]

I think you can't be, like, the person that you normally are, where you're, like, timid little mommy.

[Sky]

Funny to me that you think of me as timid mommy. That's very interesting.

[Clark (Sky's son)]

Yeah, well, I have, like, a lot of occasions to prove that. Like, your New Year's resolution was to say no more. Often that was your resolution because you were too timid to say no to people before that.

[Sky]

Well, I like to think that it's less about me being timid and more about me being a can do kind of person.

[Clark (Sky's son)]

There it is, right there.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

At school functions, Clark watches his mom try to accommodate the other parents and get steamrolled in the process. In restaurants, he sees his mom settle for the wrong meal rather than bother the waiter for once. He wants Guy to stop worrying about everyone else's feelings. He wants her to focus on herself.

[Sky]

I would really love to know, like, why it's important to you.

[Clark (Sky's son)]

It's basically for me, more of like, my mom avenging those people. Just wanted you to kind of like, get your avenge.

[Sky]

My revenge.

[Clark (Sky's son)]

Avenge yourself. Sorry, I'm using the wrong word. You gotta be like, you did this, and do you remember why it happened? And say sorry to me.

[Sky]

He said at the end, mom, you've got to figure this out. You. You've got to go for it. You have to have a chance to find out why this happened.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

It's not just Clark who feels this way. There's someone else who also wonders why this happened and has always wished sky had had the chance to ask.

[Rachel (Sky's mom)]

Hello?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Is this Rachel?

[Rachel (Sky's mom)]

Yes, it is.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

This is Sky's mom, Rachel, the only eyewitness to what happened that night, and the person talking to her while chewing a hunk of Muenster cheese in challah bread because his boss, Alex, thinks taking lunch breaks is more of a biz ops. Thing is me.

[Rachel (Sky's mom)]

I got out of my chair and I stood at the window and pulled back the drape, and I see their bikes sort of going off into the night.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

The night the girl showed up around 2 or 3 in the morning. Rachel was reading in an armchair by the window. She's always up in the middle of the night. It's a habit that began in childhood. She tells me that her own mom, Sky's grandmother, suffered from schizophrenia. She was unpredictable. And the middle of the night was the only time the house was ever quiet and safe. It was during those calm nights alone that Rachel began writing poetry.

[Rachel (Sky's mom)]

And here I am all these years later and I'm still, still doing it. There's something holy about the middle of the night. Nobody's hassling you and you can really hear yourself somehow.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

But on the night the vandals struck, she could also hear four 11 year old girls making their getaway. When the sun came up, Rachel saw the fuck you on the garage. And immediately she phoned up one of the girls and spoke with both her and her mom. While neither denied what had happened, nothing much came of the conversation. And after that, sky begged Rachel not to make any more phone calls. The idea of confronting anyone just upset sky more. So Rachel stopped calling. And after a few days, things seemed to go back to normal.

[Rachel (Sky's mom)]

We felt it was over. And for her it really wasn't. It really took her being, I think, grown up for her to start saying to me, I think about this all the time. And it was shocking to me. I had not understood that. And I felt dopey that I hadn't understood that because I thought I was pretty well attuned to her and her feelings. It broke my heart. She always understood how to fit in with people, completely unlike her parents. My husband was born in Finland and was a mathematician and had his PhD when he was 19. And I was this strange high school dropout poet. I mean, we were really odd and eccentric birds. And here was this kid who was just exquisitely normal. And to us she's always been a wonder. Like, who is this very social being? This was a kid whose first word was high and who, when she was small, literally sat on the front step all day and said hi to every person who passed on the sidewalk. And we loved her for that. And what happened with the girls, this had the effect of making her more, you know, pulling in her wings.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

And this is the person Clark sees today. Someone who keeps her wings tucked in so tight for fear of them getting in anyone's way that she's forgotten how to open them. Rachel knows that Clark has recently begun urging his mom to be less timid. And she approves.

[Rachel (Sky's mom)]

There's something authoritative about a child. They haven't had. They're not all hammered by doubts and worries about what they're saying. They're like, well, why didn't you do this? You know?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Rachel had asked me to call at the end of her work night. It's now 7:30am close to her bedtime. So we say our goodbyes. But just before putting down the phone, she offers a final benediction.

[Rachel (Sky's mom)]

I thought it was so beautiful the way he wanted her to figure this out, because she'll hear that from him in a way that she probably could never hear that from me. It has more of a chance to wake her up.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

And with that, Rachel heads off to bed. And I turn back to sky, who, with a little help from Clark, is still trying to wake up.

[Sky]

He does have this sense of. But that's an unfinished thing.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Yeah, like the good. That this good ending hasn't fully happened yet.

[Sky]

Yeah, yeah, the good ending hasn't happened. Now it's sort of turning into a different story, which is that it's kind of never too late to summon courage and do something that scares you. I guess in a way, I want to live up to his. To who I think he'd like me to be. You know, I think like, I. I need to show him that I can stand up for myself.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

30 five years later and Skye's finally decided she's ready. She just needs help reaching the girls and not backing down when she does. So you want to do this?

[Sky]

I think that I want to do this. Yes. I want to do this. You know, now I'll be able to say I did what I could.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

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[Jonathan Goldstein]

sky and I get to work reaching out to the four girls, Sam, Nikki, Randy and Tessa. We begin with Sam because Sky already has her contact info. They'd run into each other at their 10 year high school reunion. Sky, Sam had said, it's me. It would have been the perfect opportunity to ask about the fuck you on the garage door, but sky just couldn't bring herself to mention it, so instead they made awkward small talk.

[Sky]

And then she friended me on Facebook,

[Sky (reading emails/messages)]

which

[Sky]

practically made me laugh. But I this sounds ridiculous, but I didn't want to be rude and so I accepted her friendship.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

I helped sky write a Facebook message to Sam saying she has some questions about the end of their friendship but with no response, sky follows up again and again. Eventually, Sam writes back. We just naturally grew apart as life events progressed, she says. She concludes by saying that Sky's attempts to contact her are making her feel overwhelmed and stressed, and that makes sky feel bad. Second is Nikki, who says that even though Skye's mom clearly remembers her being there that day, she absolutely wasn't. In fact, she says she and Skye weren't even that close. Third comes Randy. Randy's hard to get a hold of, so when we get no answer on her house phone, we try all the numbers we can find. We leave her repeated messages, but it seems like she's not even getting them. But as it turns out, she's gotten all of them because she sends sky an email to say that she's not happy about it. In fact, she's creeped out. Sky was at the grocery store when she received the email.

[Sky (reading emails/messages)]

I was in line, and I completely was out of my body as I was reading it.

[Rachel (Sky's mom)]

I so forgot where I was that

[Sky (reading emails/messages)]

someone had to say, are you in line? And I was like, no, I'm not. And I had to, like, push my cart away from the checkout stand because I could not focus.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Sky went into damage control mode, writing back to Randy to say how deeply sorry she was. I asked her to read me what she'd sent.

[Sky (reading emails/messages)]

Randy, I'm so grateful that you wrote me back. It makes me cringe to think about how semi creepy and weird it must have seemed to get those messages. Ugh, I'm kicking myself for letting that happen. I'm still hoping to talk to you privately and just explain myself. Would that be okay?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Like, you know, is there a kind of like. Do you feel like your default is to sort of apologize for having reached out?

[Tessa]

Um,

[Sky (reading emails/messages)]

yeah, I do. That has occurred to me.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Later, sky shares the email with Clark, and it seems like it's occurred to him as well.

[Clark (Sky's son)]

I think you were over apologetic. If you set yourself as the kind of character who's like, oh, sorry, sorry, sorry, I shouldn't have done that. That automatically makes her basically, like, gives her power. Yeah, it puts her in a better spot than you're in. And that's bad.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

At Sky's insistence, Randy finally agrees to a phone call. But in the end, all she tells sky is that she doesn't remember that night, doesn't remember any toilet paper or garage door. She doesn't remember anything at all. Of the four friends, only one remains. Tessa, the girl Sky's mom phoned directly after the incident. Over the next couple weeks, I speak with Tessa several times. She can't decide if she wants to talk with Sky. For one thing, she says it was so long ago that she doesn't remember much. To which I rejoin that she's all we've got. For another, she adds, getting contacted like this through a third party Interlocutionary International podcasting host is pretty weird. To which I admit that it is slightly unconventional. Finally, Tessa says she doesn't want to inadvertently drag the other girls names through the dirt for something they did as kids. To which I say, well, let's change those names and draw some pseudonyms through the dirt. And once I agree to change the names of the four girls, Tessa, not her real name, agrees to sit down with sky, still her real name, so she can finally have a conversation about the night in question. Both Skye and Tessa live in California, pretty close to where they grew up. I figure my presence at their meeting could be calming, helpful even. All sky has to do is invite me out there to join her. I like California.

[Sky]

I know. I love it.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

But because of her cursed timidity, sky just doesn't have the lima beans to ask. So I continue to offer her prompts. I haven't been there in some time.

[Sky]

Well, it's a lovely state.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

After several minutes of this elaborate dance, I get to the point, for both our sakes. So do you think that. Do you think I should come?

[Sky]

That would be amazing.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

And so it's off to California for some long overdue Q and A. Hi. Good. How are you guys?

[Rachel (Sky's mom)]

Good.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Hi, Clark. Nice to meet you. Sky picks me up at the hotel. Clark's along, too, to make sure his mom doesn't lose her nerve.

[Sky]

Clark, you can continue to navigate for me.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

I like the way Clark sits in the passenger seat leafing through a comic book. All right, let me. I'm just gonna throw this in here, if that's okay. Yeah, do what you need to do. I toss my bag into the back of the hatchback, and we head off to meet Tessa. It felt great to be in San Francisco. It's just like the mamas and the papas sang. If one is going to San Francisco, one should wear flowers in one's hair. As we speed down the highway, I close my eyes, lean back, and would that I had hair, enjoy the wind blowing through it.

[Sky]

Wait, is that trunk open?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Oh, wow. It seems that in my excitement to hit the streets of San Fran, I'd left the hatchback door open, which, it turns out, is the source of the San Franciscan breeze. Gee whiz. I Sorry about that. God. Sky finds a place on the shoulder of the highway to pull over. Oh, man. And shuts the trunk door. And with that, we were back on our way. That's why they call me Mr. Excitement. Actually, no one calls me Mr. Excitement. San Francisco is pretty.

[Sky]

We're not in San Francisco.

[Sky (reading emails/messages)]

You know that, right?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

I mean, we're in. As we drive to meet Tessa, I ask sky how she's doing.

[Sky]

I feel. I feel nervous sided, which is a word that I'm gonna.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

When have you used the word nervicited, Clark?

[Clark (Sky's son)]

Like, before. Like baseball games and like, stuff like that. I mean, I kind of feel nervicited.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Nervicited is a portmanteau word. Like the way, say, romance, a word denoting an incestuous relationship between brothers, is. Or chillax, the act of chilling out with a bar of family sized Ex Lax.

[Sky]

How do you feel about meeting. Do you want to meet her?

[Clark (Sky's son)]

I will resist temptations to punjer over what she did.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Clark is 11 years old. In the comic books he reads, that's how problems are solved. With punches, kung fu chops. Riding the scales is a simpler business. It's one thing to hear stories about his mom being stepped on. It's another to be in the same room with one of the people who did the stepping. Sky tries to tamp down his need for revenge.

[Sky]

Well, as we were talking about last night before you went to sleep.

[Clark (Sky's son)]

No, you want forgiveness.

[Sky]

Forgiveness. Forgiveness. We need to find the forgiveness.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

I wanted a quiet place for sky and Tessa to talk. And it turned out that on the weekends, the local university had an unoccupied studio.

[Sky]

I think we're basically here.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

We pull into the empty campus parking lot.

[Sky]

Clark, you want to look and make sure I'm within the lines? Yeah, you're with a little lens. Okay,

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Let's get set up. So this is where Clark and I will sit. The studio's only big enough for sky and Tessa, so Clark and I sit in the control booth, where we'll be able to eavesdrop on the conversation. There's a mic, so should the need arise, Clark can offer guidance that only sky can hear through her headphones.

[Clark (Sky's son)]

Hi, Mom.

[Sky]

Hi, Clark.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Okay, so you turn it.

[Sky]

It's good to hear your voice.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Can you hear me, Sky? Sandy, the studio technician, helps us get set up and takes a level on Skye's voice by asking her an easy, neutral question. Tell me, how's the ride in today?

[Clark (Sky's son)]

How was the ride in?

[Apple Card Sponsor]

You don't have to shout into it.

[Sky]

It was easy. Except for when we left the hatchback

[Sky (reading emails/messages)]

open on the freeway.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Laugh it up. Sandy, the studio technician. Laugh it up. Tessa is running late, so Skye sits waiting in the studio by herself. Finally.

[Clark (Sky's son)]

Wait, she's here.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Ah.

[Sky]

Okay.

[Clark (Sky's son)]

Okay.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Hey, I'm Jonathan.

[Tessa]

Hi. Nice to meet you.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Glad you made it. Nice to meet you too. Tessa's stylish and like sky looks younger than her years. You could still see a trace of the popular girl. I show her into the studio where Sky's been waiting. The two haven't seen each other since they were children.

[Sky]

Do you keep in close touch with anyone from high school?

[Clark (Sky's son)]

Not in close touch with anyone.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

As they settle in, the mood is formal, a little stilted. Since the room is only about the size of a small elevator, their knees practically touch.

[Clark (Sky's son)]

You guys can start now.

[Sky]

Okay. Thanks, Clark. Clark says we can start now.

[Tessa]

Okay.

[Sky]

So. So I'm just gonna go backtrack a little bit.

[Clark (Sky's son)]

Yeah.

[Sky]

So my memory is that we were all in sort of a tight knit group.

[Clark (Sky's son)]

Is it too early for me to

[Sky]

ask, like for this discussion?

[Clark (Sky's son)]

Why did she do it?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Yes. It can be a passive good instinct

[Sky]

for both of us. But then had also written fuck you on the garage door. And that then from that point on, we never spoke again. And it's something that has always stuck with me because I don't know why it happened. And so I guess I'd love to know what your memories are.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Clark's got this look on his face. Love to know what your memories are from his perspective. His mom's doing what she always does. That is exactly what he told her not to. She's being overly sensitive to Tessa's feelings. But even after 35 years of waiting to ask the question, sky just can't help being Sky. Tessa takes a sip of water.

[Tessa]

Sorry, I'm just. My throat is dry.

[Sky]

Yeah, no problem.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Sky smiles warmly and gives Tessa a moment to collect herself.

[Sky]

Take your time.

[Tessa]

So I have a vague recollection. It's really vague. What really stands out is that we were just going TPing. Like we went tee peeing a lot. You know, not just on that night. And we literally just stumbled upon your home. Interesting. And that's what I remember.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Clark furrows his brow. He wants his mother to push harder, be more aggressive.

[Clark (Sky's son)]

Mom, ask why you weren't invited to go toilet papering with them.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

That's a really good question. We watch as sky waits patiently for Tessa to finish speaking.

[Sky]

He wanted me to ask you why I didn't come with you that night. TPing.

[Clark (Sky's son)]

Why weren't you invited?

[Sky]

Not why didn't I come, why I wasn't invited.

[Tessa]

I,

[Rachel (Sky's mom)]

I.

[Tessa]

In my mind, we had drifted apart by then.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Inside the control room, Clark shakes his head.

[Clark (Sky's son)]

I think there's more to the story.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

You do?

[Sky]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

What makes you think that?

[Clark (Sky's son)]

I don't know.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

He slumps back in his seat and crosses his arms. He seems frustrated.

[Tessa]

I remember your mom calling my mom. And for my mom, it wasn't a big deal either. My mom, first of all, didn't even know what TPing was. I had to explain it to her.

[Sky]

Oh, okay.

[Tessa]

I did not realize until maybe now that it was more of a big deal for you.

[Sky]

Yeah. And I feel like you're being very, very honest. And I really, really appreciate that.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

When Tessa and I last spoke, she mentioned how odd this whole undertaking seemed to her. A woman she hadn't heard from in 35 years wanted to talk to her about a random night from their childhood. Oh, and she also wanted to bring along her 11 year old son and his 48 year old sidekick, both of whom would be communicating with sky through a secret microphone.

[Clark (Sky's son)]

Mommy, can you hear me?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Let's wait so she can talk. Wait, wait, wait. Inside the control room, I watch sky perform a delicate balancing act. She's aware that Clark is watching, so she's trying not to be too timid. But she also wants to set a good example for how to behave. And through all that, she can't help seeing it from Tessa's perspective, how weird and uncomfortable this must be for her. Skye wants to help Tessa feel safe, and so she treads lightly.

[Sky]

I mean, I think being the parent now of a child, I understand how quickly things can get confused. And it really was the words that that's what seemed to communicate to me. I've done something terrible, like I must have. I must be responsible for this in some way, you know? And so I wondered, did I do something?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

You can see that Tessa is weighing her response. She doesn't quite know what to say. But with sky being so gracious and open, it's like she feels the least she can do is try to meet her halfway. And so tentatively, she offers a thought.

[Tessa]

Maybe you were a little different than them.

[Sky]

In what way?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Again, Tessa searches for the right words all the while never saying us or we, but always they.

[Tessa]

They were like. They were a little mischievous, you know, they were, they were a little rebellious and wanting to do something bad.

[Sky]

And I was.

[Tessa]

And maybe you weren't. Maybe you didn't want to go along with what they were doing.

[Sky]

Well, you know what's interesting about that is the whole TPing thing. I remember that being a single, but I remember. I actually remember not wanting to do that. Would you say that maybe I was more like a goody two shoes type compared to them?

[Co-host]

Yeah.

[Tessa]

You know,

[Jonathan Goldstein]

According to Tessa, if Sky had stayed friends with those girls, it would have meant a summer of drinking alcohol and pulling off semi illegal pranks after dark. All things Skye wouldn't have wanted. Even back then, she didn't want to upset anyone. To her friends, that made her seem like a goody two shoes. And to a goody two shoes who thinks they're better than you, what could be more of a fuck you than a literal fuck you. The words large and clear emblazoned across her family's garage door. I turn to Clark to see what he makes of all this. Is there something that you feel like we're just kind of missing or we're not getting at? Clark stares straight ahead, watching his mom. I can see he's thinking something through. He makes a move towards the mic, but then shies away. He's antsy, rising from his seat, settling back. Eventually, I make a suggestion. Do you just want to go in there? Yeah, totally. Clark gets up, leaves the control room and makes his way to the studio to talk to his mom in person. Watching him, I have no idea what he's up to.

[Sky]

Oh, Clark is here. Oh.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Clark enters the room.

[Sky]

What was that?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

But it's not his mom he's addressing. It's Tessa. I take a deep breath as Clark begins to speak.

[Clark (Sky's son)]

Did you feel in any way like dragged into it? Like to do, like to toilet paper people's houses?

[Tessa]

Um, I don't know if I would say dragged, but I would say definitely I was a follower.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

I'm not exactly surprised by Clark's question. It's the same one he's been asking since the beginning, essentially, why did you do this to my mother? But I am surprised by the way he's asking it. Not with anger, but with sympathy. For the first time, Clark's trying to see it all from Tessa's perspective. He's following his mom's example.

[Tessa]

Sometimes you're with friends because those are the ones you have, so you'll stick with your friends, even though you. You see things that you don't like in them. You know, you just don't want to be alone.

[Clark (Sky's son)]

Okay.

[Tessa]

Yeah. Thanks. Okay. Yeah.

[Sky]

Thanks, Clark.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

And because Tessa didn't want to be alone, she continued to hang out with the girls for several more years before eventually finding a new group of friends, Tessa turns to Sky.

[Tessa]

Honey, you frickin dodged a bullet. That's what you did. Not being with those girls, I have to say.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Sky tells Tessa that there's still one thing she's been wondering about. Why did Tessa agree to talk with her at all? It would have been easy to say no. Everyone else did.

[Clark (Sky's son)]

Why?

[Tessa]

I said yes.

[Sky]

Yeah.

[Tessa]

Truthfully, the call was so out of the blue. Of course, at the beginning, I said, yeah, sure. And then I talked to my daughter, and she was like, no, like, don't do that.

[Sky]

How old is your daughter?

[Tessa]

My daughter is almost 13.

[Sky]

Okay.

[Tessa]

Yeah.

[Sky]

What was she worried about?

[Tessa]

She kind of said, like, what's in it for you?

[Rachel (Sky's mom)]

You know?

[Tessa]

She was kind of worried that, like, I would come out as a bad person or something.

[Sky]

How is she feeling right now that you're here?

[Tessa]

She's mad.

[Sky]

She is?

[Tessa]

Yeah, she's mad. But, you know, I told her, like, not everything we do in life is for us. It's for other people as well, so she'll be fine.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Whereas sky set out to show her son that she has the courage to stand up for her own needs, Tessa wants to show her daughter that she has the courage to stand up for someone else's.

[Tessa]

I'm sorry that I didn't. The thought of you thinking for 35 years that you had done something wrong is like, ugh. I really don't think that you did anything. I really don't. I'm sorry that you felt like that. You know, I wish that thank you hadn't.

[Sky]

I'm so glad I'm hearing it now.

[Tessa]

I'm glad, too. So I'm really glad. And it's really good to see you. And you literally look exactly the same. Maybe your hair's a little shorter, right?

[Sky]

And blonder.

[Clark (Sky's son)]

Can you turn the mic on?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Oh, yeah, go ahead.

[Sky]

Dramatic hug. What's that?

[Clark (Sky's son)]

Dramatic hug.

[Sky]

Oh, you want a dramatic hug? That's Claire. I think we have to have the dramatic hug

[Jonathan Goldstein]

because the room's so small. When they stand, they're already almost touching. They look at each other for a brief moment, and then sky opens her wings. Aww.

[Tessa]

It's good to see you.

[Sky]

So good to see you.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

After the meeting with Tessa, Clark didn't have much to say. But at night, back in his room, in that space where he feels free to open up, Clark's eager to talk about Tessa.

[Clark (Sky's son)]

Honestly, I didn't know that person, so I thought they might, like, still be the bully, still bullying you. And I didn't Want you to feel, like, scared or anything in that situation. So I was kind of anxious. Then I met Tessa, and she was, like, super nice.

[Sky]

She was super nice.

[Clark (Sky's son)]

And I feel like you. Like, you weren't timid, Mommy. You were brave, Mommy.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Tonight there's no talk of avenging. Through his mom's example, Clark's learning that one can be kind one without being timid. The kindness can carry its own strength.

[Sky]

If you had. If we had not had that night where you had said, you have to figure this out, Mom, I really honestly don't think I would have done it. So thank you.

[Clark (Sky's son)]

You're welcome.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

There's a lot more coming for Clark. Moments when he'll have to make difficult decisions. Some of them he'll talk about with sky, and some he won't. There's a new bakery, but for now, they keep talking. Neither of them quite ready to go to sleep just yet.

[Sky]

Remember when you said that there was an international Tomato Day?

[Clark (Sky's son)]

Stop judging me. It was international, Sam.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Now that the furniture is returning to its goodwill home, now that the last month's rent is scheming with the damaged deposit Take this moment to decide

[Apple Card Sponsor]

if

[Jonathan Goldstein]

we meant it if we try or felt around for far too much from things that accidentally touch. Hello. Hi. Hi. How are you?

[Sky]

You guys can't see me, it looks like.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Yeah. Are we doing this with the cameras off?

[Sky]

There. I think I just clicked. There you are.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Hello. You know, as I was waiting for you to pop up, you know, what word entered my mind?

[Sky]

What word is that?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Nervicited.

[Sky]

Oh, my gosh, Jonathan.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Nervicited.

[Sky]

I still use that word.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Do you really?

[Sky]

I mean, I use it regularly. I mean, I feel like it should be an actual word.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Yeah, totally. It's the perfect portmanteau. I feel like, also, it's come up recently for me, as it does occasionally, and I think of. I think of you. I think of Clark.

[Sky]

Yeah, that's great.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

So let me ask you some real, you know, meat and potato questions here.

[Sky]

All right, Bring it on.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

So did you ever hear from Tessa or the other girls after the episode came out?

[Sky]

I never heard from any of the other girls. And then Tessa and I kept in touch for a little while, and I actually, when I knew that we were gonna be having this conversation, I reached out to her and I told her that I was gonna be talking to you. And what I wanted to know mostly from her, was how her daughter felt about it now. Oh, and actually, she texted me. Should I read you what she wrote?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Sure. Yeah.

[Sky]

Okay. Okay. So here's what she said. We did go back and listen to the podcast together. She's referring to her daughter. She did not remember being mad at me, and she said she was thankful and happy that I took part in that. Seven years makes a huge difference. She also said middle school sucks.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Oh, man. Wow. It really does go full circle.

[Sky]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

And speaking of which, so back then, Clark was 11, so that would mean that he's, what, 18 now?

[Sky]

He's 19, actually.

[Rachel (Sky's mom)]

19?

[Sky]

Yeah. Isn't that insane? It's insane. He's a freshman in college.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Wow. So what is he studying?

[Sky]

He's studying political science.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

That seems to make sense. I mean, even from just what I knew of him at the age of 11. Yeah, like, standing up for himself. Standing up for the little guy.

[Sky]

Yeah, like, standing up for the little guy. And sort of also, like, this sense of, like, justice must be served.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

You had hoped that Clark would learn from the episode's mission. Like, basically, you wanted to show how to stand up for yourself, but to do so with kindness. And do you feel like he took those lessons with him through the rest of middle school and high school?

[Sky]

Okay, let me be perfectly honest with you, Jonathan. Yeah, he was really grateful, just like I am. I think he felt fondness for Tessa for showing up.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Yeah.

[Sky]

But I do have to also tell you, as far as the other three girls who didn't show up go, he's still really mad at them.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Yeah.

[Sky]

He feels like they didn't take accountability for what happened, and that's really still frustrating to him. So, you know, I sort of. At first, when he said to me, you know, I'm still mad at those girls, there was a part of me that felt disappointed because, like, I don't feel that way.

[Apple Card Sponsor]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

You didn't feel that way even afterwards? No, immediately afterwards.

[Sky]

Yeah, I really didn't. I mean, I think the warm feelings, the sense of fondness that I developed for Tessa during our conversation, like, really eclipsed these old, painful feelings that I had had. And also, in the meantime, I've raised two teenagers, too.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Right.

[Sky]

And maybe, you know, I don't know if Clark will have children, but if he does have children, like, maybe then his perspective on how he feels about the girls who didn't show up, maybe it will change then. Like, we're always evolving. We're always changing. And, you know, I can't argue with him about his feelings. His feelings are valid, and I want to respect the way that he feels about it. And so I feel great about how things have evolved since then.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Good. Well, you know, if Clark was so inclined, it would be really cool if he wanted to send a voice message just saying hi.

[Sky]

Oh, my gosh, he sounds so different. Yeah, I'll ask him.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Ask him.

[Clark (voice message)]

Hey, guys, it's Clark. I think it's really cool that you guys are doing this episode to revisit the podcast we did all those years ago. That's a really cool memory for me that I really cherish. You know, kind of helping my mom get closure about a story that she used to tell me when I was growing up, before we even thought of trying to write in and see if people would be interested in listening to it. I'm off in college now. It's been quite a while, but I'd just like to thank everyone who was involved. It was a really great time, great experience, and I'm glad to have had it.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

To piggyback off of Clark's words, spoken in a surprisingly bass baritone, I'd like to thank everyone who helped put the episode together. And we'll be back once again with another exciting update in two weeks. But before then, might I direct your attention to our free newsletter? Maybe you've heard about it, maybe you haven't. If you have not, please sign [e-mail] heavyweight.

[Sky]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.