Jonathan Vs. Kalila on Smash Boom Best

Summary

Heavyweight Podcast Summary

Episode: Jonathan Vs. Khalilah on Smash Boom Best
Host: Jonathan Goldstein
Producer: Khalilah Holt
Guest Host: Molly Bloom (Smash Boom Best)
Judge: Ella (Oregon City)
Release Date: June 25, 2026

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Overview

In this lively crossover episode, Heavyweight’s Jonathan Goldstein and producer Khalilah Holt bring their classic banter to a kids’ debate show, Smash Boom Best, hosted by Molly Bloom. The timely and relatable debate: Phone Calls vs. Texting. Jonathan champions the art of calling, while Khalilah advocates for the modern magic of texting. The episode is judged by Ella, a musical, bracelet-making teen from Oregon City. The spirited, often comic debate is full of nostalgia, personal anecdotes, and clever insights about how we communicate now.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Setting the Stage (00:06–09:27)

• Jonathan and Khalilah introduce the episode, bantering about studio etiquette and guest hosting duties.
• Both share their impressions of Smash Boom Best: Jonathan as a fan with his son, Auggie, and Khalilah, who is usually skeptical of children’s programming but finds herself genuinely impressed by the show’s intelligence.
• The debate setup is announced: phone calls vs. texting.

Memorable Quote:

“We’re, we’re here to talk about it. ...the point is it’s always better to use your words rather than a knuckle sandwich to the throat of your adversary.”
—Jonathan Goldstein (02:00)

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2. Meet the Host and Judge (06:27–09:27)

• Molly Bloom welcomes the guests and introduces Ella, the episode’s judge.
• Ella describes her love of bracelets and music, bringing a playful and thoughtful perspective.

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3. Declaration of Greatness

Jonathan’s Case for Phone Calls (09:50–14:16)

• Emotional Power: Phone calls carry presence, emotion, and nuance.
• Efficiency: Jonathan argues that real-time conversations can solve things faster than long, meandering threads of texting.
• Tone and Clarity: Voice conveys tone, reducing misunderstandings.
• Honesty: Jonathan claims texts make it easier to fib.
• Human Evolution: Speaking is primal; phone calls connect us more deeply.

Notable Moment:

“The sound of being loved is a phone call. ...I want to spend my precious minutes in real time with you, even if I can’t be there in real life.”
—Jonathan Goldstein (09:55)

Khalilah’s Rebuttal (14:37–15:10)

• Respecting Preferences: Love is considering what the other person prefers, not just defaulting to calls.
• Efficiency Rebuttal: Real life rarely lines up for instant answers on calls; texting avoids phone tag.

Quote:

“So many times I’ve been in a situation where I’m calling, leaving a message, they don’t answer. They call me back, I’m in the middle of something, I can’t answer, they leave a message. And you know what we always do? We always switch to texting.”
—Khalilah Holt (14:50)

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4. Declaration of Greatness

Khalilah’s Case for Texting (17:51–22:09)

• Consideration: Texts don’t disturb people at inconvenient moments.
• Calmness: No “panic” and stress of surprise phone calls.
• Flexibility: Texts can be answered anytime—no phone tag!
• Privacy: Texting avoids public eavesdropping.
• Written Record: Useful for searching back for info.
• Creativity: Emojis and new abbreviations express us in modern ways.

Notable Line:

“A phone call causes panic. ...A call is either spam, your college... asking if you’d like to give them more money, or someone delivering bad news.”
—Khalilah Holt (19:35)

Jonathan’s Rebuttal (22:36–23:20)

• Challenges the idea that impermanence makes calls less valuable: “All the best things in life... evaporate into air, like laughter and tears and our human experiences themselves.”
• Mocks the idea that texting is as poetic as Shakespeare.

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5. Micro Round: Fact-Off (28:00–32:57)

Khalilah:

• Life-Saving Texts: British surgeon saved a life using step-by-step surgery instructions via text. (28:00)
• First Actual Text: "Merry Christmas" sent in 1992. (29:03)
• American Idol Impact: American Idol’s text voting fueled adoption of texting in the U.S. (31:46)

Jonathan:

• Calls and Mental Health: Studies show talking by phone strengthens relationships and reduces loneliness. (28:29)
• National Telephone Day: A whole holiday celebrates the telephone; governors got gold phones. (30:36)
• Emotional Facts: Closest friends are the ones you’d call, not just text—a “fact of the heart.” (32:21)

Judge’s Response:

“...texting, you might, like, do it more often or, like, with everyone and then, like, calling. Definitely with, like, specific people to show you care about them.”
—Ella (33:02)

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6. Sneak Attack: Mystery Words (36:27–38:23)

• Game: Each debater gives clues for texting or calling-related words; Ella must guess.
• Jonathan’s Words: Voicemail, Ring, Speaker
• Khalilah’s Words: Emoji, Reply, Keyboard

Result: Ella quickly guesses Khalilah’s list—her speed in “game show mode” impresses the judge and ultimately tips the verdict.

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7. Final Six (38:25–39:16)

Six-Word Summaries:

• Khalilah (Texting): “Open your mind. Future is now.” (38:40)
• Jonathan (Calling): “Immediate, intimate, hand and finger free. Direct, interactive and fun.” (38:51)

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8. The Verdict (39:24–41:01)

• Judge Ella crowns Texting the winner.
• Deciding factor: The sneak attack round—texting clues were “really, really fast.”

Aftermath & Sportsmanship

• Jonathan admits, “Maybe phones are for phonies. What do I know?” (24:38)
• Khalilah returns the praise: “I always like talking to you. ...you make some good points about the telephone and the intimacy of the relationship you can have with someone in voice versus writing.” (40:09)
• Jonathan concedes he’s been partially won over by Khalilah’s arguments (40:24).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “I deliver my knuckle sandwiches with words sans beurre.” —Jonathan Goldstein (02:07)
• “Phone calls are memorable, like a cousin telling you about a new baby or a friend comforting you after a breakup...” —Jonathan (13:12)
• “[Texting is] a whole multimedia experience… like each one of us is a modern day Shakespeare, inventing new ways to say things.” —Khalilah (21:30)

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Highlights With Timestamps

• Studio Banter/Setup: 00:06–01:44
• Jonathan’s Opening Declaration: 09:50–14:16
• Khalilah’s Opening Declaration: 17:51–22:09
• Fact-Off (Micro Round): 28:00–32:57
• Sneak Attack (Game): 36:27–38:23
• Six-Word Summaries: 38:25–39:16
• Final Verdict/Crowning Winner: 39:24–41:01
• Debrief & Compliments: 40:05–40:56

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Tone and Language

• Lighthearted, witty, and highly relatable—with comic jabs and gentle self-deprecation.
• Both debaters play to their generational strengths, poking fun at themselves and each other.
• The judging and guest hosting add warmth and an inclusive tone, inviting listeners to weigh in.

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Summary

This episode delivers a delightful blend of nostalgia, generational perspectives, and civil, comedic debate on how we connect in the 21st century. Jonathan Goldstein makes an impassioned, poetic case for the intimacy of the human voice, while Khalilah Holt champions the low-key, creative convenience of texting. The debate is close, but thanks to razor-quick clues in the sneak attack, texting wins the day—and the hearts of the younger set.

Final Takeaway:
Texting may have triumphed, but the episode pays loving tribute to both the old and the new—and, as always, highlights the joy and messiness of trying to connect with each other, whether by ring or ding.

Transcript

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Pushkin. Welcome to the studio. Khalilah Holt, producer.

[Khalilah Holt]

Thank you for having me.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

You know, I'm not saying that you should, but it would sometimes be nice to be welcomed into the studio myself.

[Khalilah Holt]

Well, you always just jump right in and start welcoming me. You don't really give me the opportunity. Welcome to the studio, Jonathan.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Oh, gee, I was taken unawares by that. We're here in the studio because we have something a little different, a special treat. Yeah, it's something that was new for both of us. Khalilah and I, we were guests on a children's debate podcast.

[Khalilah Holt]

The show's called smashboom Best, and it's a favorite of your son Auggie's, if I'm not mistaken.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Yes, very much so. Which is how it kind of got onto my race. I started enjoying listening to it with him and the host. Molly Bloom is kind of a celeb in our household. So I was a little starstruck.

[Khalilah Holt]

You know, I'm always wary of children's programming because I hate the kind of like, over the top, smiley baby voice.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Like, too syrupy.

[Khalilah Holt]

Yeah. But I started listening to the show in advance of doing this, and I feel like I really enjoyed the show. They're talking to kids at like a level that respects their intelligence, I would say.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Yeah. And since we respect you, our listeners intelligences, it's why we chose to share this episode with you all.

[Khalilah Holt]

We'll be debating phone calls versus texting.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

I don't want to spoil anything. We went pretty toe to toe. It got pretty heated during certain moments. But, you know, we're, we're here to talk about it. We're still speaking to one another. So the point is it's always better to use your words rather than a knuckle sandwich to the throat of your adversary.

[Khalilah Holt]

So true. Thank you for not giving me a knuckle sandwich to the throat.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

I deliver my knuckle sandwiches with words sans beur. We had a lot of fun doing it and we hope you'll enjoy listening to it. And that's all coming up after these

[Khalilah Holt]

fun words from our sponsors.

[Molly Bloom]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.

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[Jonathan Goldstein]

What's the one thing you've never told anyone? People just like you tell all in a podcast called the Secret Room. If you're a True Story fan who can't get enough of people's most intimate dreams, desires and regrets, check out the podcast the Secret Room. Stories can be tragic, like witnessing the murder of a lover. Or hilarious, like hearing the nocturnal adventures of a sleepwalker. Or heartwarming, like the woman who found a whole new family in a most unexpected place with a DNA kit. Hear Mila's deathbed confession that her daughter's absent father is a movie star. Or about Jen's secret love affair with a man on death row. Or how Joey falls in erotic love with inanimate objects. The podcast has been lauded by people the BBC, Buzzfeed, Elle magazine, and Apple. People all around you carry the most amazing secrets. And you're invited to the Secret Room for a front row seat to stories that may jar and amaze you. Find the Secret Room, a podcast about the stories no one ever tells anywhere. You get your podcasts

[Ella]

Brains On Universe.

[Khalilah Holt]

From the brains behind Brains on, it's

[Ella]

Smash Boom Best, the show for people with big opinions.

[Molly Bloom]

Hi, I'm Molly Bloom, and this is Smash Boom Best, the show where we take two things, smash them together, and ask you to decide which one is best. Today, we've got two ways of reaching out. One starts with a ring, the other a ding. It's calling versus texting. Whether you like to type or talk, we're sure you'll have a lot to say about this one. Defending the tradition of talking on the phone, it's the host of the Heavyweight podcast, Jonathan Goldstein.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Howdy do.

[Molly Bloom]

And here to hit send for the art of the text, it's Khalilah Holt, producer of the Heavyweight podcast.

[Khalilah Holt]

Hello. Or should I say hand wave emoji?

[Molly Bloom]

And here to judge this clash of the communication styles is none other than Ella from Oregon City. Ella is on the swim team, plays flute and saxophone, loves to make art, and has lots of bracelets on both of her arms. Welcome, Ella.

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[Molly Bloom]

Okay, Ella, since this is a podcast, we cannot see your amazing bracelets, so can you give us a sense of the scope of your bracelets?

[Ella]

I have probably like 25 on right now.

[Khalilah Holt]

Wow.

[Molly Bloom]

Have you made all of them?

[Ella]

I've probably made half of them.

[Molly Bloom]

Incredible. What are we talking about, like string beads? All of the above.

[Ella]

All of the above.

[Molly Bloom]

Wow. Do you have a favorite one?

[Ella]

I recently made one with soda tabs and it's really cool. And it's stretchy.

[Molly Bloom]

That's very impressive. Just soda tabs?

[Ella]

Yes.

[Molly Bloom]

Well.

[Ella]

And string.

[Molly Bloom]

What is the oldest bracelet that you have on?

[Ella]

I have one that I got in sixth grade and it says kindness ambassador on it and I have worn it for three years.

[Molly Bloom]

It's amazing. On your arms right now, Are they like an everyday. You wear each one every day or do you change it up?

[Ella]

Sometimes I change it up, but most of them I keep it on, like all the time.

[Molly Bloom]

Very cool. Okay, so you also make other kinds of art besides bracelets? What other kind of media do you use to make art?

[Ella]

I love, like drawing and painting and stuff, but I also like music.

[Molly Bloom]

Oh, yes, you play saxophone and flute. So I'm wondering when you're playing flute versus when you're playing saxophone. Is there like a vibe shift that you feel or is it kind of the same?

[Ella]

It's definitely different vibes because I play more like jazz music on the saxophone and then I do more like popular songs or like concert music on the flute.

[Molly Bloom]

So when you're playing the saxophone, if you said hello in your like, saxophone playing voice, like, what would that sound like?

[Ella]

Oh, I don't know. I'd probably be like, hello.

[Molly Bloom]

Nice. And how about your flute playing voice? What would that hello sound like? Hello. Excellent. Excellent. Well, will Ella side with texting or phone calls? Let's see. First, the rules of the game. Every debate consists of four the declaration of greatness, the micro round, the sneak attack, and the final six. After each round, our judge, Ella will award points to the team that impresses her the most. But she'll keep her decisions top secret until the end of the debate. Listeners, we want you to judge too. Mark down your points as you listen. At the end of the show, our website, smashboom.org and vote for whichever team you think won. Okay. Kalila, Ella, and Jonathan, are you ready?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Oh, I'm ready.

[Khalilah Holt]

I hope so.

[Ella]

I'm ready too.

[Molly Bloom]

Then it's time for the declaration of greatness. In this round, our debaters will present a well crafted immersive argument in favor of their side. Then they'll each have 30 seconds to rebut their opponent's statements. We flipped a coin. And Jonathan, you're up first. Tell us why we should answer the call of talking on the phone.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

What's the sound of being loved? A heartbeat? No, that's just body plumbing. Is it someone saying, I love you? I'd argue actions speak louder than words, which is why to me, the sound of being loved is a phone call. It says, hey, I like hearing your voice. I like the way you laugh, your awkward pauses. It says, I want to spend my precious minutes in real time with you, even if I can't be there in real life. A text just says, shoot, I just remembered you asked me a question yesterday and I'm going to write you back while I finish up on the toilet. Phone calls are efficient. Oh, sure. Texters will say a text is quick. To which I say, what are you rushing for? More scrolling to get to. But also, texts can be slow. How many times have you sent a question then had to wait for a reply? Like, say you're planning a picnic.

[Khalilah Holt]

Hey, Chad, where should we meet? Come on, right back.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

You could be waiting minutes or hours. You have no idea.

[Khalilah Holt]

Finally. It's been three hours. Okay, Chad, Says meet at Minnehaha Falls. Sure, but what time? Come on, just answer me.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Meanwhile, the whole thing could have been settled in 15 seconds with a call.

[Khalilah Holt]

Hello.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Hey, Chad.

[Molly Bloom]

Where should we picnic?

[Khalilah Holt]

How about Minnehaha Falls when six Bring cheese and crackers?

[Tony Ayo]

Nah.

[Molly Bloom]

Fruit and pizza.

[Ella]

Kay.

[Khalilah Holt]

See ya later.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

That's efficient. Phone calls avoid confusion. You can hear someone's tone, whether it's playful, angry, grumpy, or snarky. Texts are so easy to get wrong.

[Khalilah Holt]

Is Chad being sarcastic or a jerk? Oh, he sent an emoji to clarify.

[Molly Bloom]

Cool guy with shades.

[Khalilah Holt]

What does that even mean?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Plus, what emoticon can replace the sound of human laughter? Or that special silence that you know is a smile? On the other end of the line, you can feel real feelings through a call. I've seen someone stand right next to me and text someone rfol. And let me tell you, they were not rolling on the floor laughing. I'm not going to say texting is dishonest, but it does make it easy to lie. There's a famous story about the first phone call. In 1876, Alexander Graham Bell was inventing the phone. So far, he'd only managed to send snippets of speech, but then he. He spilled some acid on his hand in the lab.

[Tony Ayo]

Gah.

[Khalilah Holt]

Mr. Watson, come here. I want you.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

He used the phone without realizing it to call his assistant. And it worked.

[Todd Douglas]

Mr. Bell, I heard every word you said distinctly.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Is there even a story of the first text message? That's rhetorical. I don't care, because it's definitely not as good. Phone calls are memorable, Like a cousin telling you about a new baby joining the family or a friend comforting you after a breakup. And no wonder. Humans have been talking and listening to each other's voices for over 100,000 years. Way longer than writing. We evolved to talk and listen. I'd argue it's one of the greatest pleasures of being a human. So the call is coming. The call to enjoy a conversation, not just get to it next time you're on the toilet. The call to revel in human voices. The call to say, I love you not with words, but with actions. The call to make a call. Are you gonna answer? Well said.

[Molly Bloom]

Well, howdy do. That was a heartwarming declaration of greatness there, Ella. What stood out to you about Jonathan's arguments?

[Ella]

That actions do speak louder than words.

[Molly Bloom]

Very nice. Okay, Kahlilah, you have 30 seconds to send Jonathan straight to voicemail. And your 30 seconds starts right now.

[Khalilah Holt]

Okay. Man, I don't know if 30 seconds is gonna be enough. First of all, I think that being loved is, you know, showing the other person that you understand what they want. And sometimes that's not always a phone call. A lot of people don't like being called the time thing. I just think that it's not true that calls are faster. So many times I've been in a situation where I'm calling, leaving a message, they don't answer. They call me back, I'm in the middle of something, I can't answer, they leave a message. And you know what we always do? We always switch to texting and time.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

I found that surprisingly hurtful. I thought this was just gonna, you know, be about the topics, but that feels somehow ad hominem. I don't know why.

[Khalilah Holt]

I'm sorry I hurt your feelings.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

You're welcome. How did you say it? With your mouth.

[Khalilah Holt]

Right. Oh, my goodness.

[Molly Bloom]

All right, we have a lot more to hear coming up. We're gonna hear from Kahlilah and team texting. But first, a quick break.

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[Jonathan Goldstein]

What's the one thing you've never told anyone? People just like you tell all in a podcast called the Secret Room. If you're a True Story fan who can't get enough of people's most intimate dreams, desires, and regrets, check out the podcast the Secret Room. Stories can be tragic, like witnessing the murder of a lover. Or hilarious, like hearing the nocturnal adventures of a sleepwalker. Or heartwarming, like the woman who found a whole new family in a most unexpected place with a DNA kit. Hear Mila's deathbed confession that her daughter's absent father is a movie star. Or about Jen's secret love affair with a man on death row. Or how Joey falls in erotic love with inanimate objects. The podcast has been lauded by people, the BBC, Buzzfeed, Elle magazine, and Apple. People all around you carry the most Amazing secrets. And you're invited to the Secret Room for a front row seat to stories that may jar and amaze you. Find the Secret Room, a podcast about the stories no one ever tells. Anywhere. You get your podcasts.

[Tony Ayo]

Boom. Smash.

[Molly Bloom]

Smashboard. Okay, we were all ears for phone calls. Kahlila, take it away for texting.

[Khalilah Holt]

Imagine you call your childhood friend on a random Tuesday. Hello? Hey, pal. I'm in the middle of, like, 10 things right now, and I'm holding a jumbo tray of sandwich fixins. Is everything okay? Remember that time when we built a sandcastle? What?

[Ella]

No.

[Khalilah Holt]

The sprouts are slipping. Are you okay? Remember when we went to Claire's and we got our ears pierced? My ears closed up years ago. Did you need something? Remember how he used to laugh? I'm sorry, what is the purpose of this call? I was just thinking about you. I have to go. Wow. I don't know if she'll ever talk to me again. But that's the risk I took. Calling someone out of the blue, violating the peace of her day. Let's try again with a text. Hey, pal, thinking of you. She wrote back, Aw. It says, miss you too. Now we're both smiling and no days were ruined. I'm a reporter. Making phone calls is part of my job. Cold calls, as in a call where the person isn't expecting you, are not fun. Said person answers the phone already feeling annoyed, and you have to explain who you are and why you're calling as quickly as possible before they hang up. A few times, I've even been yelled at on the phone. It's my least favorite part of the job, and I usually cry.

[Molly Bloom]

But the telephone is an incredible invention.

[Khalilah Holt]

Sure, so is the horse drawn carriage, but we have cars now. We change with the times.

[Molly Bloom]

Ugh, not me. I still love my horse and carriage and my phone calls.

[Khalilah Holt]

Well, great for you, Mr. Retro Chic. But for the rest of us, a phone call causes panic. Maybe 20 years ago, a ringing phone meant something like, Marjorie down the street is inviting you over for homemade casserole. How charming. These days, though, a call is either spam, your college that cost you $200,000, asking if you'd like to give them more money, or someone delivering bad news.

[Molly Bloom]

Sometimes it's also a butt dial. Those are fun, right?

[Khalilah Holt]

Are they? Five minutes of wrestling. Okay. Plus, have you ever tried to get off the phone with someone and they keep dragging it out? It's a whole song and dance of going okay in a way that's supposed to sound final, while the other Person completely ignores the hint and launches into a detailed anecdote about new cereals on offer at their grocery store. Texts, on the other hand, end whenever you want them to. You just stop responding. Beautiful. And you don't have to play phone tag trying to get an answer. Just send your question and the other person responds when they can. Ideal. There's also the matter of being in public. Someone calls to chat, and any random stranger can listen in on my conversation. I would like to be able to tell my mom about how I cried over accidentally ordering the wrong breakfast burrito without breaking broadcasting it to the world. It is simply not the world's business. And speaking of being in public, we've all been trapped near someone on a loud phone call. It's a nightmare. Texting is silent. It is the considerate choice. And here's something. Phone calls can never give you a written record. I can search my texts, find that address someone sent me three months ago and double check what time we said we'd meet. A phone call just evaporates into thin air. And finally, texting isn't just words. It's photos, links, voice memos, emojis. A whole multimedia experience. Texting is even changing language itself. Now we're all using new abbreviations and fun emojis to express ourselves. It's like each one of us is a modern day Shakespeare, inventing new ways to say things. So in conclusion, texting is convenient, considerate, less panicky, and frankly, more creative. Oh, it's my childhood friend again. She says thanks. That text brightened my day. And she sent me a picture of some sandwiches she made. Let me text back a drool emoji and a heart one, too.

[Molly Bloom]

Very nicely done. I'm sending you gifts of lots of people giving high fives. Way to go, Ella. What stood out to you about Kahlilah's declaration of greatness?

[Ella]

That, like, she was saying how calls have to be at a good time and how, like, your texts are private and, like, kept, you can keep them to yourself.

[Molly Bloom]

Mm. Okay, Jonathan, it's time for your rebuttal. You've got 30 seconds to leave Kahlilah on read and your time starts now.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Whew. Okay, you mentioned Shakespeare. I'm trying to remember which play or sonnet the smiley face was in. You say the thing about how phone calls evaporate into air, but frankly, all the best things in life do, like laughter and tears and our human experiences themselves, so I don't think that discounts them. I think a lot of what you're saying, I feel Very parental here. It speaks to our isolation.

[Khalilah Holt]

I mean, yeah, sure, if you want to talk about the nature of mortality and death, but I just like to sort of be able to look back at a nice text later, you know?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

I mean, I don't know. We're just jumping too, too far ahead. I mean, like, why. Why do anything? You know, like, why sail a paper boat on a. On a pond when you're just.

[Khalilah Holt]

Why would you do that?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

See, that's the problem right there. Speaking two different languages. I come from a generation where, you know, you beat a hoop down the street with a stick, you know, and you've. Your generation has got AI solving all of that, so

[Khalilah Holt]

I don't know about AI, but I don't think it's a bad thing that we've, you know, evolved beyond hoops. We have better things to play with now than hoops on streets.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Kite.

[Molly Bloom]

Okay, Ella, it is time to award some points. Please give one point to the declaration of greatness that you liked best and one point to the rebuttal that won you over. You get to decide what makes a winning argument. Did one team argue more passionately? Did another team have better logic? Award your points, but don't tell us who they're going to. Have. You made your decision?

[Ella]

Yes.

[Molly Bloom]

Excellent. Kalila and Jonathan, how are you two feeling so far?

[Khalilah Holt]

Feeling confident, I guess. It's a weird. I'm usually so conflict avoidant that it's a weird mode for me to be

[Jonathan Goldstein]

in and I feel like, ready to throw in the towel. I'm like, maybe she's right. Maybe phones are for phonies. What do I know?

[Molly Bloom]

All right, well, it's time for a quick break. Check your messages and charge your phone.

[Ella]

And we'll be right back with more smashboom Best.

[Khalilah Holt]

You're listening to State of Debate, home to rage and rhetoric and awe inspiring argumentation.

[Taylor Lincoln]

Meow. That's cat for hello. I'm Taylor Lincoln, debate maven and cat person.

[Todd Douglas]

Woof woof. That's dog for feed me. And I'm Todd Douglas, the dog dude and debate powerhouse.

[Taylor Lincoln]

And we're here at our local animal shelter to cuddle some canines and kitty

[Todd Douglas]

cuties and catch some logical fallacies with our claws and paws.

[Taylor Lincoln]

Logical fallacies are uncool debate techniques that help you lose your debates. And I just snagged a nasty one. Want to hear it?

[Todd Douglas]

Ooh, that's dog four, of course. Let's listen in and see what the cat dragged in.

[Khalilah Holt]

Oh, look at these little kittens in need of a home what do you think, Amos? Should I adopt one? Meh, aren't they adorable? Listen to their little meows.

[Todd Douglas]

I don't really like cats.

[Apple Cash Advertiser]

Wait, what?

[Khalilah Holt]

Why? And why didn't you put that on your dating profile?

[Todd Douglas]

I don't know, I just think that they're mean.

[Khalilah Holt]

How so? Cause they can scratch and bite. Dogs can also scratch and bite. Oh, this little furball seems to love the way I'm petting him.

[Tony Ayo]

They're mean because they're just not nice to people.

[Todd Douglas]

Cats are mean because they're not nice to people.

[Taylor Lincoln]

And they're not nice to people because they're mean.

[Todd Douglas]

Our friend just said the same thing twice. That argument didn't take us anywhere.

[Taylor Lincoln]

And that's because it was a circular argument fallacy. That's when a debater ends their point with the argument they started with. It's an argument that goes around in

[Todd Douglas]

circles like a dog chasing its tail. Our friend Amos needs to come up with some fresh ideas about why cats

[Taylor Lincoln]

are mean, which is a losing argument anyway.

[Todd Douglas]

I don't know, Taylor. I've had a few gnarly run ins with my neighbor's cat, Salsalito.

[Taylor Lincoln]

Watch it, Todd. My claws are coming out.

[Todd Douglas]

To quote the great Scooby Doo.

[Molly Bloom]

Ruh Ro.

[Todd Douglas]

We'll see you next time on State of Debate.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Smash Boom Best.

[Molly Bloom]

You're listening to Smash Boom Best. I'm your host, Molly Bloom.

[Ella]

And I'm your judge, Ella.

[Molly Bloom]

And we love getting debate suggestions from our listeners like this one.

[Ella]

Hi, my name is Wyatt. I'm from Hanford, California. My debate suggestion is Monopoly versus a game night debate. Wyatt's not playing with this one.

[Molly Bloom]

We'll hear who Wyatt thinks should win at the end of the show.

[Ella]

And now back to this debate calling versus texting.

[Molly Bloom]

And now it's time for round two, the micro round. It's time for a fact off. Kahlilah and Jonathan will each get three chances to make a microargument backed by a cool fact or idea. Jonathan went first. Last round. So Kahlilah, please start us off.

[Khalilah Holt]

Texting saved a life. In 2008, British surgeon David Knott was volunteering in the Congo and performed a life saving operation, receiving step by step surgical instructions via text message. The operation was a success.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

So wait, I just have a follow up question about that little fun factoid. So he put down the scalpel in order to like be texting away.

[Khalilah Holt]

I don't have information about the logistics of if maybe someone was reading them out loud.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Okay, all right. I do tend to think that if it was just on a phone, you can get rid of the middleman and you wouldn't have to have someone reading the text out loud. But anyway, did you know that phone calls are good for your mental health? And I've got some studies to prove it. One study tested how people felt after calling an old friend or just typing to them. And get this. Even though people were worried that the call would be awkward, it wasn't. And it brought them closer to their friend. And another study found that regular phone calls make people feel less lonely.

[Khalilah Holt]

That's nice. It's not quite as good as, like, saving someone's life, but, you know, earlier you said there's no story about the first text message. In fact, there is. The first text message was Merry Christmas. And it was sent from a computer, not a phone. On December 3, 1992, a great year, a 22 year old software programmer named Neil Papworth, a fun name, sent the very first text message. It was sent from a computer because mobile devices weren't yet capable of sending texts at the time. The recipient got a very festive surprise on his phone.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

That sounds really jolly.

[Khalilah Holt]

Yeah, it is jolly.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Wait, that they just. They looked at their cell phone and they saw Merry Christmas.

[Khalilah Holt]

Mm.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

And there's nothing jolly about that. There's nothing about just reading the words. Merry was like in new courier font, all caps.

[Khalilah Holt]

I don't know that we had that capability at the time. It was a new technology.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

I don't know.

[Khalilah Holt]

What's a Christmas card? It's writing.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Yeah, I know, but it's colorful and it's got little pictures and Santa Clauses and reindeer. I don't know. It does occur to me though, that if there weren't any phones, there wouldn't be any phone lines. And where would birds sit? I know that's a non sequitur, but is that something that you've ever considered? What are they gonna sit in? Trees, get splinters?

[Khalilah Holt]

I think their feet are built for that. I don't know that they get splinters.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

All right, fair enough.

[Khalilah Holt]

Was that your facts or.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

No, that was. Okay, maybe that counts as a fact. I guess it is a fact. Okay, here's a question for you. What are you doing on April 25th? Because I am celebrating National Telephone Day. It started in 1967, and in honor of the 100 millionth telephone line being installed in the US to celebrate, they had governors and dignitaries all get on a party line together and they got Goa' uld phones. I think we need to bring this back because I want to get On a party line and get a gold phone.

[Khalilah Holt]

Gold phones is pretty cool, but sitting on a conference call with a bunch of governors sounds actually like a nightmare to me. All right, well, here's my last fact. In 2003, AT&T helped American Idol set up a voting system that relied on text messages rather than voice calls. At the time, text messaging was still new, and some 22% of respondents to a later poll said they learned to text specifically in order to vote on the show. A reality singing competition accidentally became one of the biggest drivers of texting adoption in American history.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Now you're talking about American idol. Right. And the. What is the. That's a competition where people sing.

[Khalilah Holt]

Yes.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Where people make use of the greatest instrument of all. With deference to Ella, I'm trying to butter up the judge here. The flute and the saxophone. Great. But what better instrument than the human voice? Do you see where I'm going with this?

[Khalilah Holt]

I see where you're going for a professional singer, but not for any schmo who's, like, saying they like a certain singer better than another singer. I don't think that that needs to be spoken. Could just as easily be typed.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

I got a little mini fact. I mean, what do we call those things that we keep in our pockets? We don't call them iPhones. We call. Or rather, we do call them iPhones. We don't call them itexting machines. Right. That's the. That is, are these facts? I don't know. Are they low blows? I don't know. I mean, even, like, when you think about the friendships that you have, the friends, there's kind of a hierarchy. Like, there's the friends that you feel like you could pick up the phone and call. Right. And those are usually your closest friends. That's a soft fact, an emotional fact of the heart.

[Khalilah Holt]

Yeah, much of a fact, but the

[Molly Bloom]

fact of the heart. All right, Ella, what stood out to you from this micro round?

[Ella]

That they each had, like, their strengths. Like, in texting, you might, like, do it more often or, like, with everyone and then, like, calling. Definitely with, like, specific people to show you care about them.

[Molly Bloom]

Mm. Mm. All right, those were a lot of good facts, a lot of good points, but only one team can get a point for this round. So, Ella, please award a point for this micro round. The decision is completely subjective and completely up to you. Have you made your decision?

[Ella]

I have.

[Molly Bloom]

Perfect. Keep it secret, and we'll be right back.

[Apple Cash Advertiser]

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[Jonathan Goldstein]

What's the one thing you've never told anyone? People just like you tell all in a podcast called the Secret Room. If you're a True Story fan who can't get enough of people's most intimate dreams, desires and regrets, check out the podcast the Secret Room. Stories can be tragic, like witnessing the murder of a lover. Or hilarious, like hearing the nocturnal adventures of a sleepwalker. Or heartwarming, like the woman who found a whole new family in a most unexpected place with a DNA kit. Hear Mila's deathbed confession that her daughter's absent father is a movie star. Or about Jen's secret love affair with a man on death row. Or how Joey falls in erotic love with inanimate objects. The podcast has been lauded by people, the BBC, Buzzfeed, Elle magazine, and Apple. People all around you carry the most amazing secrets and you're invited to the Secret Room for a front row seat to stories that may jar and amaze you. Find the Secret Room, a podcast about the stories no one ever tells anywhere. You get your podcasts. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.

[Taylor Lincoln]

Smash.

[Todd Douglas]

Boom.

[Molly Bloom]

We are back and we're jumping right in because it's time for sneak attack. This is our improvised round where debaters have to respond to a challenge on the spot. Today's challenge is Mystery Word. Each debater will get a list of three secret words and they're going to try to get our judge, Ella, to guess the word as fast as she can. So let's say one of my words was milk. I might say it comes from a cow, goes on cereal, and Ella would be like milk. Got it. Does that make sense?

[Khalilah Holt]

Yes.

[Molly Bloom]

Fab. Okay, so you're gonna have 30 seconds to get Ella to guess. And Ella, so I wanna ask, are you ready for some guessing?

[Ella]

I am. I'm very ready.

[Molly Bloom]

Okay, so Jonathan, you are going to start us off. You have your words.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Okay.

[Molly Bloom]

Get Ella to guess them. Your time starts now.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

So this is Something that you would leave on someone's phone if you couldn't get ahold of them.

[Ella]

Voicemail.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Very good. And this is the sound that your phone makes when someone's phoning you.

[Ella]

Ding.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Almost rhymes with ring. Yes. And this is the person who is doing the talking.

[Khalilah Holt]

You.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

This is. Okay, you hit a little button mute on your phone when you want to hear it without having to hold it to your face.

[Molly Bloom]

Do you wanna make a guess?

[Ella]

I don't know.

[Molly Bloom]

What was the answer? Jonathan Speaker.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

I didn't do a very good job.

[Ella]

That makes sense.

[Molly Bloom]

No, you did great. Okay, Khalilah, it is your turn. You have your words handy.

[Khalilah Holt]

Yep.

[Molly Bloom]

All right, your 30 seconds begins now.

[Khalilah Holt]

Okay. The little pictures in the text emojis. Yes. When you are, you've got an email. There's options at the bottom. And the options are like. Yep. And the thing on the computer that you would use to type.

[Ella]

Keyboard.

[Khalilah Holt]

Yeah. Great job. Correct.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

I've never heard this game show side of you.

[Khalilah Holt]

It's true. A new part of me comes out. Yeah.

[Molly Bloom]

Okay, Ella, it is time to award a point. You can decide who gets the point. Did someone get you to guess more? Did someone really connect with you? You know, it's up to you what the criteria. Have you awarded your point?

[Ella]

Yes.

[Molly Bloom]

Awesome. Then it's time for our final round. The final six. In this round, each team will have just six words to sum up the glory of their side. Khalilah, you're up first. Tell us why you heart emoji texting.

[Khalilah Holt]

Open your mind. Future is now.

[Molly Bloom]

Oh, very nice. All right, Jonathan, last chance to give it your all for a call.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Immediate, intimate, hand and finger free. That's kind of a hyphenated one word. Direct, interactive and fun.

[Molly Bloom]

Hmm. Very nice. All right, Ella, it is time to award your final point for this final six. Have you made your decision?

[Ella]

I have.

[Molly Bloom]

Oh, my goodness. All right, tally up those points. Ella, are you ready to crown one team the smashboom best?

[Ella]

I am.

[Molly Bloom]

Okay. Drumroll, please. And the winner is.

[Ella]

Texting.

[Todd Douglas]

Yay.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

I knew it.

[Molly Bloom]

I knew it.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Next time if you get instead of a teenage judge, you get like some 70 year old

[Tony Ayo]

man.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

They all have a fighting chance. Our fingers are just too pudgy and sticky for the text.

[Khalilah Holt]

Why are your fingers so sticky?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

It's my business. I like fudge.

[Ella]

Me too. Me too.

[Molly Bloom]

Ella, was there a moment that really decided things for texting?

[Ella]

I think it was probably the sneak attack. It was really, really fast. I got it.

[Khalilah Holt]

Yeah.

[Molly Bloom]

Cleela really got that game show mode going.

[Ella]

We locked in. We locked in.

[Khalilah Holt]

Very impressive, Jonathan. I always like talking to you. You always make me laugh. And I do think you make some good points about the telephone and the intimacy of the relationship you can have with someone in voice versus writing.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Oh, that's really nice, Khalilah. You kind of won me over. I came in here feeling, like, a little more headstrong about the phone, but I have to admit, you kind of won me over some. And that is a testament to your debating skill, your persuasiveness, and. And your velvety, dulcet tones. You get it? That's a little dig.

[Khalilah Holt]

That's a little.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Trying to get a little slam dunk on.

[Khalilah Holt]

You didn't have to do that. But sportsmanship on the whole, very gratifying. Thank you.

[Molly Bloom]

Well, that is it for today's debate battle. Ella Crown texting the smashboom best. But what about you?

[Ella]

Head to smashboom.org and vote to tell us who you think won.

[Molly Bloom]

This episode was produced by me, Molly Bloom, Mark Sanchez, and San Anton Totten. It was sound designed by Rachel Breeze, and Mark wrote our theme song. We had engineering help from Adam Lee. Our announcer is Marley Foyer Worker Auto. And we want to give a special thanks to Austin Cross and Taylor Kaufman. Khalilah, is there anyone you'd like to give a shout out to today?

[Khalilah Holt]

Yes, I'd like to give a shout out to my mom, Annalise, who's one of the few people in my life that I enjoy both phoning and texting equally. She's really great in both modes.

[Molly Bloom]

Oh, that's very sweet. And how about you, Jonathan? Any special shout outs?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

I want to shout out my nine year old son, Augie, who first introduced me to smashboom best and got me listening to it. And he is a big fan. Molly.

[Molly Bloom]

Aw. Thank you, Augie, for introducing your dad. And, Ella, any special thanks or shout outs?

[Ella]

Could I shout out my dad for being here and, like, absolutely, shout out whoever you want. Then I shout out my dad for

[Molly Bloom]

being here and helping me. Nice. And before we go, let's check in and see who Wyatt thinks should win the debate between Monopoly and Jenga.

[Ella]

I think Monopoly would win because it's longer and that means more fun.

[Molly Bloom]

If you're between the ages of 13 and 18 and you'd like to be a judge, or if you're any age and you have an idea for for a knockdown drag out debate, head to smashboom.org contact and drop us a line. We'll be back next week with a new Smashboom best episode, Dandelions vs Orchids. Bye.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Smell you later.

[Ella]

Farewell, Liberty Giblets.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Oh yeah,

[Khalilah Holt]

I also hate that you said, how do you do? I found that very gross.

[Ella]

That's why I did.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

That was special for you.

[Khalilah Holt]

Anyway, we haven't even started debating yet.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

What's the one thing you've never told anyone? People just like you tell all in a podcast called the Secret Room. If you're a true story fan who can't get enough of people's most intimate dreams, desires, and regrets, check out the podcast. The Secret Room stories can be tragic, like witnessing the murder of a lover. Or hilarious, like hearing the nocturnal adventures of a sleepwalker. Or heartwarming, like the woman who found a whole new family in a most unexpected place with a DNA kit. Hear Mila's deathbed confession that her daughter's absent father is a movie star. Or about Jen's secret love affair with a man on death row. Or how Joey falls in erotic love with inanimate objects. The podcast has been lauded by People, the BBC, buzzfeed, Elle magazine and Apple. People all around you carry the most amazing secrets and you're invited to the Secret Room for a front row seat to stories that may jar and amaze you. Find the Secret Room, a podcast about the stories no one ever tells. Anywhere you get your podcasts, this is an iHeart podcast.

[Molly Bloom]

Guaranteed Human.