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Jonathan Goldstein
Pushkin. Welcome to the studio. Khalilah Holt, producer.
Khalilah Holt
Thank you for having me.
Jonathan Goldstein
You know, I'm not saying that you should, but it would sometimes be nice to be welcomed into the studio myself.
Khalilah Holt
Well, you always just jump right in and start welcoming me. You don't really give me the opportunity. Welcome to the studio, Jonathan.
Jonathan Goldstein
Oh, gee, I was taken unawares by that. We're here in the studio because we have something a little different, a special treat. Yeah, it's something that was new for both of us. Khalilah and I, we were guests on a children's debate podcast.
Khalilah Holt
The show's called smashboom Best, and it's a favorite of your son Auggie's, if I'm not mistaken.
Jonathan Goldstein
Yes, very much so. Which is how it kind of got onto my race. I started enjoying listening to it with him and the host. Molly Bloom is kind of a celeb in our household. So I was a little starstruck.
Khalilah Holt
You know, I'm always wary of children's programming because I hate the kind of like, over the top, smiley baby voice.
Jonathan Goldstein
Like, too syrupy.
Khalilah Holt
Yeah. But I started listening to the show in advance of doing this, and I feel like I really enjoyed the show. They're talking to kids at like a level that respects their intelligence, I would say.
Jonathan Goldstein
Yeah. And since we respect you, our listeners intelligences, it's why we chose to share this episode with you all.
Khalilah Holt
We'll be debating phone calls versus texting.
Jonathan Goldstein
I don't want to spoil anything. We went pretty toe to toe. It got pretty heated during certain moments. But, you know, we're, we're here to talk about it. We're still speaking to one another. So the point is it's always better to use your words rather than a knuckle sandwich to the throat of your adversary.
Khalilah Holt
So true. Thank you for not giving me a knuckle sandwich to the throat.
Jonathan Goldstein
I deliver my knuckle sandwiches with words sans beur. We had a lot of fun doing it and we hope you'll enjoy listening to it. And that's all coming up after these
Khalilah Holt
fun words from our sponsors.
Molly Bloom
This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.
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Jonathan Goldstein
What's the one thing you've never told anyone? People just like you tell all in a podcast called the Secret Room. If you're a True Story fan who can't get enough of people's most intimate dreams, desires and regrets, check out the podcast the Secret Room. Stories can be tragic, like witnessing the murder of a lover. Or hilarious, like hearing the nocturnal adventures of a sleepwalker. Or heartwarming, like the woman who found a whole new family in a most unexpected place with a DNA kit. Hear Mila's deathbed confession that her daughter's absent father is a movie star. Or about Jen's secret love affair with a man on death row. Or how Joey falls in erotic love with inanimate objects. The podcast has been lauded by people the BBC, Buzzfeed, Elle magazine, and Apple. People all around you carry the most amazing secrets. And you're invited to the Secret Room for a front row seat to stories that may jar and amaze you. Find the Secret Room, a podcast about the stories no one ever tells anywhere. You get your podcasts
Ella
Brains On Universe.
Khalilah Holt
From the brains behind Brains on, it's
Ella
Smash Boom Best, the show for people with big opinions.
Molly Bloom
Hi, I'm Molly Bloom, and this is Smash Boom Best, the show where we take two things, smash them together, and ask you to decide which one is best. Today, we've got two ways of reaching out. One starts with a ring, the other a ding. It's calling versus texting. Whether you like to type or talk, we're sure you'll have a lot to say about this one. Defending the tradition of talking on the phone, it's the host of the Heavyweight podcast, Jonathan Goldstein.
Jonathan Goldstein
Howdy do.
Molly Bloom
And here to hit send for the art of the text, it's Khalilah Holt, producer of the Heavyweight podcast.
Khalilah Holt
Hello. Or should I say hand wave emoji?
Molly Bloom
And here to judge this clash of the communication styles is none other than Ella from Oregon City. Ella is on the swim team, plays flute and saxophone, loves to make art, and has lots of bracelets on both of her arms. Welcome, Ella.
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Hi.
Molly Bloom
Okay, Ella, since this is a podcast, we cannot see your amazing bracelets, so can you give us a sense of the scope of your bracelets?
Ella
I have probably like 25 on right now.
Khalilah Holt
Wow.
Molly Bloom
Have you made all of them?
Ella
I've probably made half of them.
Molly Bloom
Incredible. What are we talking about, like string beads? All of the above.
Ella
All of the above.
Molly Bloom
Wow. Do you have a favorite one?
Ella
I recently made one with soda tabs and it's really cool. And it's stretchy.
Molly Bloom
That's very impressive. Just soda tabs?
Ella
Yes.
Molly Bloom
Well.
Ella
And string.
Molly Bloom
What is the oldest bracelet that you have on?
Ella
I have one that I got in sixth grade and it says kindness ambassador on it and I have worn it for three years.
Molly Bloom
It's amazing. On your arms right now, Are they like an everyday. You wear each one every day or do you change it up?
Ella
Sometimes I change it up, but most of them I keep it on, like all the time.
Molly Bloom
Very cool. Okay, so you also make other kinds of art besides bracelets? What other kind of media do you use to make art?
Ella
I love, like drawing and painting and stuff, but I also like music.
Molly Bloom
Oh, yes, you play saxophone and flute. So I'm wondering when you're playing flute versus when you're playing saxophone. Is there like a vibe shift that you feel or is it kind of the same?
Ella
It's definitely different vibes because I play more like jazz music on the saxophone and then I do more like popular songs or like concert music on the flute.
Molly Bloom
So when you're playing the saxophone, if you said hello in your like, saxophone playing voice, like, what would that sound like?
Ella
Oh, I don't know. I'd probably be like, hello.
Molly Bloom
Nice. And how about your flute playing voice? What would that hello sound like? Hello. Excellent. Excellent. Well, will Ella side with texting or phone calls? Let's see. First, the rules of the game. Every debate consists of four the declaration of greatness, the micro round, the sneak attack, and the final six. After each round, our judge, Ella will award points to the team that impresses her the most. But she'll keep her decisions top secret until the end of the debate. Listeners, we want you to judge too. Mark down your points as you listen. At the end of the show, our website, smashboom.org and vote for whichever team you think won. Okay. Kalila, Ella, and Jonathan, are you ready?
Jonathan Goldstein
Oh, I'm ready.
Khalilah Holt
I hope so.
Ella
I'm ready too.
Molly Bloom
Then it's time for the declaration of greatness. In this round, our debaters will present a well crafted immersive argument in favor of their side. Then they'll each have 30 seconds to rebut their opponent's statements. We flipped a coin. And Jonathan, you're up first. Tell us why we should answer the call of talking on the phone.
Jonathan Goldstein
What's the sound of being loved? A heartbeat? No, that's just body plumbing. Is it someone saying, I love you? I'd argue actions speak louder than words, which is why to me, the sound of being loved is a phone call. It says, hey, I like hearing your voice. I like the way you laugh, your awkward pauses. It says, I want to spend my precious minutes in real time with you, even if I can't be there in real life. A text just says, shoot, I just remembered you asked me a question yesterday and I'm going to write you back while I finish up on the toilet. Phone calls are efficient. Oh, sure. Texters will say a text is quick. To which I say, what are you rushing for? More scrolling to get to. But also, texts can be slow. How many times have you sent a question then had to wait for a reply? Like, say you're planning a picnic.
Khalilah Holt
Hey, Chad, where should we meet? Come on, right back.
Jonathan Goldstein
You could be waiting minutes or hours. You have no idea.
Khalilah Holt
Finally. It's been three hours. Okay, Chad, Says meet at Minnehaha Falls. Sure, but what time? Come on, just answer me.
Jonathan Goldstein
Meanwhile, the whole thing could have been settled in 15 seconds with a call.
Khalilah Holt
Hello.
Jonathan Goldstein
Hey, Chad.
Molly Bloom
Where should we picnic?
Khalilah Holt
How about Minnehaha Falls when six Bring cheese and crackers?
Tony Ayo
Nah.
Molly Bloom
Fruit and pizza.
Ella
Kay.
Khalilah Holt
See ya later.
Jonathan Goldstein
That's efficient. Phone calls avoid confusion. You can hear someone's tone, whether it's playful, angry, grumpy, or snarky. Texts are so easy to get wrong.
Khalilah Holt
Is Chad being sarcastic or a jerk? Oh, he sent an emoji to clarify.
Molly Bloom
Cool guy with shades.
Khalilah Holt
What does that even mean?
Jonathan Goldstein
Plus, what emoticon can replace the sound of human laughter? Or that special silence that you know is a smile? On the other end of the line, you can feel real feelings through a call. I've seen someone stand right next to me and text someone rfol. And let me tell you, they were not rolling on the floor laughing. I'm not going to say texting is dishonest, but it does make it easy to lie. There's a famous story about the first phone call. In 1876, Alexander Graham Bell was inventing the phone. So far, he'd only managed to send snippets of speech, but then he. He spilled some acid on his hand in the lab.
Tony Ayo
Gah.
Khalilah Holt
Mr. Watson, come here. I want you.
Jonathan Goldstein
He used the phone without realizing it to call his assistant. And it worked.
Todd Douglas
Mr. Bell, I heard every word you said distinctly.
Jonathan Goldstein
Is there even a story of the first text message? That's rhetorical. I don't care, because it's definitely not as good. Phone calls are memorable, Like a cousin telling you about a new baby joining the family or a friend comforting you after a breakup. And no wonder. Humans have been talking and listening to each other's voices for over 100,000 years. Way longer than writing. We evolved to talk and listen. I'd argue it's one of the greatest pleasures of being a human. So the call is coming. The call to enjoy a conversation, not just get to it next time you're on the toilet. The call to revel in human voices. The call to say, I love you not with words, but with actions. The call to make a call. Are you gonna answer? Well said.
Molly Bloom
Well, howdy do. That was a heartwarming declaration of greatness there, Ella. What stood out to you about Jonathan's arguments?
Ella
That actions do speak louder than words.
Molly Bloom
Very nice. Okay, Kahlilah, you have 30 seconds to send Jonathan straight to voicemail. And your 30 seconds starts right now.
Khalilah Holt
Okay. Man, I don't know if 30 seconds is gonna be enough. First of all, I think that being loved is, you know, showing the other person that you understand what they want. And sometimes that's not always a phone call. A lot of people don't like being called the time thing. I just think that it's not true that calls are faster. So many times I've been in a situation where I'm calling, leaving a message, they don't answer. They call me back, I'm in the middle of something, I can't answer, they leave a message. And you know what we always do? We always switch to texting and time.
Jonathan Goldstein
I found that surprisingly hurtful. I thought this was just gonna, you know, be about the topics, but that feels somehow ad hominem. I don't know why.
Khalilah Holt
I'm sorry I hurt your feelings.
Jonathan Goldstein
You're welcome. How did you say it? With your mouth.
Khalilah Holt
Right. Oh, my goodness.
Molly Bloom
All right, we have a lot more to hear coming up. We're gonna hear from Kahlilah and team texting. But first, a quick break.
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Jonathan Goldstein
What's the one thing you've never told anyone? People just like you tell all in a podcast called the Secret Room. If you're a True Story fan who can't get enough of people's most intimate dreams, desires, and regrets, check out the podcast the Secret Room. Stories can be tragic, like witnessing the murder of a lover. Or hilarious, like hearing the nocturnal adventures of a sleepwalker. Or heartwarming, like the woman who found a whole new family in a most unexpected place with a DNA kit. Hear Mila's deathbed confession that her daughter's absent father is a movie star. Or about Jen's secret love affair with a man on death row. Or how Joey falls in erotic love with inanimate objects. The podcast has been lauded by people, the BBC, Buzzfeed, Elle magazine, and Apple. People all around you carry the most Amazing secrets. And you're invited to the Secret Room for a front row seat to stories that may jar and amaze you. Find the Secret Room, a podcast about the stories no one ever tells. Anywhere. You get your podcasts.
Tony Ayo
Boom. Smash.
Molly Bloom
Smashboard. Okay, we were all ears for phone calls. Kahlila, take it away for texting.
Khalilah Holt
Imagine you call your childhood friend on a random Tuesday. Hello? Hey, pal. I'm in the middle of, like, 10 things right now, and I'm holding a jumbo tray of sandwich fixins. Is everything okay? Remember that time when we built a sandcastle? What?
Ella
No.
Khalilah Holt
The sprouts are slipping. Are you okay? Remember when we went to Claire's and we got our ears pierced? My ears closed up years ago. Did you need something? Remember how he used to laugh? I'm sorry, what is the purpose of this call? I was just thinking about you. I have to go. Wow. I don't know if she'll ever talk to me again. But that's the risk I took. Calling someone out of the blue, violating the peace of her day. Let's try again with a text. Hey, pal, thinking of you. She wrote back, Aw. It says, miss you too. Now we're both smiling and no days were ruined. I'm a reporter. Making phone calls is part of my job. Cold calls, as in a call where the person isn't expecting you, are not fun. Said person answers the phone already feeling annoyed, and you have to explain who you are and why you're calling as quickly as possible before they hang up. A few times, I've even been yelled at on the phone. It's my least favorite part of the job, and I usually cry.
Molly Bloom
But the telephone is an incredible invention.
Khalilah Holt
Sure, so is the horse drawn carriage, but we have cars now. We change with the times.
Molly Bloom
Ugh, not me. I still love my horse and carriage and my phone calls.
Khalilah Holt
Well, great for you, Mr. Retro Chic. But for the rest of us, a phone call causes panic. Maybe 20 years ago, a ringing phone meant something like, Marjorie down the street is inviting you over for homemade casserole. How charming. These days, though, a call is either spam, your college that cost you $200,000, asking if you'd like to give them more money, or someone delivering bad news.
Molly Bloom
Sometimes it's also a butt dial. Those are fun, right?
Khalilah Holt
Are they? Five minutes of wrestling. Okay. Plus, have you ever tried to get off the phone with someone and they keep dragging it out? It's a whole song and dance of going okay in a way that's supposed to sound final, while the other Person completely ignores the hint and launches into a detailed anecdote about new cereals on offer at their grocery store. Texts, on the other hand, end whenever you want them to. You just stop responding. Beautiful. And you don't have to play phone tag trying to get an answer. Just send your question and the other person responds when they can. Ideal. There's also the matter of being in public. Someone calls to chat, and any random stranger can listen in on my conversation. I would like to be able to tell my mom about how I cried over accidentally ordering the wrong breakfast burrito without breaking broadcasting it to the world. It is simply not the world's business. And speaking of being in public, we've all been trapped near someone on a loud phone call. It's a nightmare. Texting is silent. It is the considerate choice. And here's something. Phone calls can never give you a written record. I can search my texts, find that address someone sent me three months ago and double check what time we said we'd meet. A phone call just evaporates into thin air. And finally, texting isn't just words. It's photos, links, voice memos, emojis. A whole multimedia experience. Texting is even changing language itself. Now we're all using new abbreviations and fun emojis to express ourselves. It's like each one of us is a modern day Shakespeare, inventing new ways to say things. So in conclusion, texting is convenient, considerate, less panicky, and frankly, more creative. Oh, it's my childhood friend again. She says thanks. That text brightened my day. And she sent me a picture of some sandwiches she made. Let me text back a drool emoji and a heart one, too.
Molly Bloom
Very nicely done. I'm sending you gifts of lots of people giving high fives. Way to go, Ella. What stood out to you about Kahlilah's declaration of greatness?
Ella
That, like, she was saying how calls have to be at a good time and how, like, your texts are private and, like, kept, you can keep them to yourself.
Molly Bloom
Mm. Okay, Jonathan, it's time for your rebuttal. You've got 30 seconds to leave Kahlilah on read and your time starts now.
Jonathan Goldstein
Whew. Okay, you mentioned Shakespeare. I'm trying to remember which play or sonnet the smiley face was in. You say the thing about how phone calls evaporate into air, but frankly, all the best things in life do, like laughter and tears and our human experiences themselves, so I don't think that discounts them. I think a lot of what you're saying, I feel Very parental here. It speaks to our isolation.
Khalilah Holt
I mean, yeah, sure, if you want to talk about the nature of mortality and death, but I just like to sort of be able to look back at a nice text later, you know?
Jonathan Goldstein
I mean, I don't know. We're just jumping too, too far ahead. I mean, like, why. Why do anything? You know, like, why sail a paper boat on a. On a pond when you're just.
Khalilah Holt
Why would you do that?
Jonathan Goldstein
See, that's the problem right there. Speaking two different languages. I come from a generation where, you know, you beat a hoop down the street with a stick, you know, and you've. Your generation has got AI solving all of that, so
Khalilah Holt
I don't know about AI, but I don't think it's a bad thing that we've, you know, evolved beyond hoops. We have better things to play with now than hoops on streets.
Jonathan Goldstein
Kite.
Molly Bloom
Okay, Ella, it is time to award some points. Please give one point to the declaration of greatness that you liked best and one point to the rebuttal that won you over. You get to decide what makes a winning argument. Did one team argue more passionately? Did another team have better logic? Award your points, but don't tell us who they're going to. Have. You made your decision?
Ella
Yes.
Molly Bloom
Excellent. Kalila and Jonathan, how are you two feeling so far?
Khalilah Holt
Feeling confident, I guess. It's a weird. I'm usually so conflict avoidant that it's a weird mode for me to be
Jonathan Goldstein
in and I feel like, ready to throw in the towel. I'm like, maybe she's right. Maybe phones are for phonies. What do I know?
Molly Bloom
All right, well, it's time for a quick break. Check your messages and charge your phone.
Ella
And we'll be right back with more smashboom Best.
Khalilah Holt
You're listening to State of Debate, home to rage and rhetoric and awe inspiring argumentation.
Taylor Lincoln
Meow. That's cat for hello. I'm Taylor Lincoln, debate maven and cat person.
Todd Douglas
Woof woof. That's dog for feed me. And I'm Todd Douglas, the dog dude and debate powerhouse.
Taylor Lincoln
And we're here at our local animal shelter to cuddle some canines and kitty
Todd Douglas
cuties and catch some logical fallacies with our claws and paws.
Taylor Lincoln
Logical fallacies are uncool debate techniques that help you lose your debates. And I just snagged a nasty one. Want to hear it?
Todd Douglas
Ooh, that's dog four, of course. Let's listen in and see what the cat dragged in.
Khalilah Holt
Oh, look at these little kittens in need of a home what do you think, Amos? Should I adopt one? Meh, aren't they adorable? Listen to their little meows.
Todd Douglas
I don't really like cats.
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Wait, what?
Khalilah Holt
Why? And why didn't you put that on your dating profile?
Todd Douglas
I don't know, I just think that they're mean.
Khalilah Holt
How so? Cause they can scratch and bite. Dogs can also scratch and bite. Oh, this little furball seems to love the way I'm petting him.
Tony Ayo
They're mean because they're just not nice to people.
Todd Douglas
Cats are mean because they're not nice to people.
Taylor Lincoln
And they're not nice to people because they're mean.
Todd Douglas
Our friend just said the same thing twice. That argument didn't take us anywhere.
Taylor Lincoln
And that's because it was a circular argument fallacy. That's when a debater ends their point with the argument they started with. It's an argument that goes around in
Todd Douglas
circles like a dog chasing its tail. Our friend Amos needs to come up with some fresh ideas about why cats
Taylor Lincoln
are mean, which is a losing argument anyway.
Todd Douglas
I don't know, Taylor. I've had a few gnarly run ins with my neighbor's cat, Salsalito.
Taylor Lincoln
Watch it, Todd. My claws are coming out.
Todd Douglas
To quote the great Scooby Doo.
Molly Bloom
Ruh Ro.
Todd Douglas
We'll see you next time on State of Debate.
Jonathan Goldstein
Smash Boom Best.
Molly Bloom
You're listening to Smash Boom Best. I'm your host, Molly Bloom.
Ella
And I'm your judge, Ella.
Molly Bloom
And we love getting debate suggestions from our listeners like this one.
Ella
Hi, my name is Wyatt. I'm from Hanford, California. My debate suggestion is Monopoly versus a game night debate. Wyatt's not playing with this one.
Molly Bloom
We'll hear who Wyatt thinks should win at the end of the show.
Ella
And now back to this debate calling versus texting.
Molly Bloom
And now it's time for round two, the micro round. It's time for a fact off. Kahlilah and Jonathan will each get three chances to make a microargument backed by a cool fact or idea. Jonathan went first. Last round. So Kahlilah, please start us off.
Khalilah Holt
Texting saved a life. In 2008, British surgeon David Knott was volunteering in the Congo and performed a life saving operation, receiving step by step surgical instructions via text message. The operation was a success.
Jonathan Goldstein
So wait, I just have a follow up question about that little fun factoid. So he put down the scalpel in order to like be texting away.
Khalilah Holt
I don't have information about the logistics of if maybe someone was reading them out loud.
Jonathan Goldstein
Okay, all right. I do tend to think that if it was just on a phone, you can get rid of the middleman and you wouldn't have to have someone reading the text out loud. But anyway, did you know that phone calls are good for your mental health? And I've got some studies to prove it. One study tested how people felt after calling an old friend or just typing to them. And get this. Even though people were worried that the call would be awkward, it wasn't. And it brought them closer to their friend. And another study found that regular phone calls make people feel less lonely.
Khalilah Holt
That's nice. It's not quite as good as, like, saving someone's life, but, you know, earlier you said there's no story about the first text message. In fact, there is. The first text message was Merry Christmas. And it was sent from a computer, not a phone. On December 3, 1992, a great year, a 22 year old software programmer named Neil Papworth, a fun name, sent the very first text message. It was sent from a computer because mobile devices weren't yet capable of sending texts at the time. The recipient got a very festive surprise on his phone.
Jonathan Goldstein
That sounds really jolly.
Khalilah Holt
Yeah, it is jolly.
Jonathan Goldstein
Wait, that they just. They looked at their cell phone and they saw Merry Christmas.
Khalilah Holt
Mm.
Jonathan Goldstein
And there's nothing jolly about that. There's nothing about just reading the words. Merry was like in new courier font, all caps.
Khalilah Holt
I don't know that we had that capability at the time. It was a new technology.
Jonathan Goldstein
I don't know.
Khalilah Holt
What's a Christmas card? It's writing.
Jonathan Goldstein
Yeah, I know, but it's colorful and it's got little pictures and Santa Clauses and reindeer. I don't know. It does occur to me though, that if there weren't any phones, there wouldn't be any phone lines. And where would birds sit? I know that's a non sequitur, but is that something that you've ever considered? What are they gonna sit in? Trees, get splinters?
Khalilah Holt
I think their feet are built for that. I don't know that they get splinters.
Jonathan Goldstein
All right, fair enough.
Khalilah Holt
Was that your facts or.
Jonathan Goldstein
No, that was. Okay, maybe that counts as a fact. I guess it is a fact. Okay, here's a question for you. What are you doing on April 25th? Because I am celebrating National Telephone Day. It started in 1967, and in honor of the 100 millionth telephone line being installed in the US to celebrate, they had governors and dignitaries all get on a party line together and they got Goa' uld phones. I think we need to bring this back because I want to get On a party line and get a gold phone.
Khalilah Holt
Gold phones is pretty cool, but sitting on a conference call with a bunch of governors sounds actually like a nightmare to me. All right, well, here's my last fact. In 2003, AT&T helped American Idol set up a voting system that relied on text messages rather than voice calls. At the time, text messaging was still new, and some 22% of respondents to a later poll said they learned to text specifically in order to vote on the show. A reality singing competition accidentally became one of the biggest drivers of texting adoption in American history.
Jonathan Goldstein
Now you're talking about American idol. Right. And the. What is the. That's a competition where people sing.
Khalilah Holt
Yes.
Jonathan Goldstein
Where people make use of the greatest instrument of all. With deference to Ella, I'm trying to butter up the judge here. The flute and the saxophone. Great. But what better instrument than the human voice? Do you see where I'm going with this?
Khalilah Holt
I see where you're going for a professional singer, but not for any schmo who's, like, saying they like a certain singer better than another singer. I don't think that that needs to be spoken. Could just as easily be typed.
Jonathan Goldstein
I got a little mini fact. I mean, what do we call those things that we keep in our pockets? We don't call them iPhones. We call. Or rather, we do call them iPhones. We don't call them itexting machines. Right. That's the. That is, are these facts? I don't know. Are they low blows? I don't know. I mean, even, like, when you think about the friendships that you have, the friends, there's kind of a hierarchy. Like, there's the friends that you feel like you could pick up the phone and call. Right. And those are usually your closest friends. That's a soft fact, an emotional fact of the heart.
Khalilah Holt
Yeah, much of a fact, but the
Molly Bloom
fact of the heart. All right, Ella, what stood out to you from this micro round?
Ella
That they each had, like, their strengths. Like, in texting, you might, like, do it more often or, like, with everyone and then, like, calling. Definitely with, like, specific people to show you care about them.
Molly Bloom
Mm. Mm. All right, those were a lot of good facts, a lot of good points, but only one team can get a point for this round. So, Ella, please award a point for this micro round. The decision is completely subjective and completely up to you. Have you made your decision?
Ella
I have.
Molly Bloom
Perfect. Keep it secret, and we'll be right back.
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Jonathan Goldstein
What's the one thing you've never told anyone? People just like you tell all in a podcast called the Secret Room. If you're a True Story fan who can't get enough of people's most intimate dreams, desires and regrets, check out the podcast the Secret Room. Stories can be tragic, like witnessing the murder of a lover. Or hilarious, like hearing the nocturnal adventures of a sleepwalker. Or heartwarming, like the woman who found a whole new family in a most unexpected place with a DNA kit. Hear Mila's deathbed confession that her daughter's absent father is a movie star. Or about Jen's secret love affair with a man on death row. Or how Joey falls in erotic love with inanimate objects. The podcast has been lauded by people, the BBC, Buzzfeed, Elle magazine, and Apple. People all around you carry the most amazing secrets and you're invited to the Secret Room for a front row seat to stories that may jar and amaze you. Find the Secret Room, a podcast about the stories no one ever tells anywhere. You get your podcasts. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.
Taylor Lincoln
Smash.
Todd Douglas
Boom.
Molly Bloom
We are back and we're jumping right in because it's time for sneak attack. This is our improvised round where debaters have to respond to a challenge on the spot. Today's challenge is Mystery Word. Each debater will get a list of three secret words and they're going to try to get our judge, Ella, to guess the word as fast as she can. So let's say one of my words was milk. I might say it comes from a cow, goes on cereal, and Ella would be like milk. Got it. Does that make sense?
Khalilah Holt
Yes.
Molly Bloom
Fab. Okay, so you're gonna have 30 seconds to get Ella to guess. And Ella, so I wanna ask, are you ready for some guessing?
Ella
I am. I'm very ready.
Molly Bloom
Okay, so Jonathan, you are going to start us off. You have your words.
Jonathan Goldstein
Okay.
Molly Bloom
Get Ella to guess them. Your time starts now.
Jonathan Goldstein
So this is Something that you would leave on someone's phone if you couldn't get ahold of them.
Ella
Voicemail.
Jonathan Goldstein
Very good. And this is the sound that your phone makes when someone's phoning you.
Ella
Ding.
Jonathan Goldstein
Almost rhymes with ring. Yes. And this is the person who is doing the talking.
Khalilah Holt
You.
Jonathan Goldstein
This is. Okay, you hit a little button mute on your phone when you want to hear it without having to hold it to your face.
Molly Bloom
Do you wanna make a guess?
Ella
I don't know.
Molly Bloom
What was the answer? Jonathan Speaker.
Jonathan Goldstein
I didn't do a very good job.
Ella
That makes sense.
Molly Bloom
No, you did great. Okay, Khalilah, it is your turn. You have your words handy.
Khalilah Holt
Yep.
Molly Bloom
All right, your 30 seconds begins now.
Khalilah Holt
Okay. The little pictures in the text emojis. Yes. When you are, you've got an email. There's options at the bottom. And the options are like. Yep. And the thing on the computer that you would use to type.
Ella
Keyboard.
Khalilah Holt
Yeah. Great job. Correct.
Jonathan Goldstein
I've never heard this game show side of you.
Khalilah Holt
It's true. A new part of me comes out. Yeah.
Molly Bloom
Okay, Ella, it is time to award a point. You can decide who gets the point. Did someone get you to guess more? Did someone really connect with you? You know, it's up to you what the criteria. Have you awarded your point?
Ella
Yes.
Molly Bloom
Awesome. Then it's time for our final round. The final six. In this round, each team will have just six words to sum up the glory of their side. Khalilah, you're up first. Tell us why you heart emoji texting.
Khalilah Holt
Open your mind. Future is now.
Molly Bloom
Oh, very nice. All right, Jonathan, last chance to give it your all for a call.
Jonathan Goldstein
Immediate, intimate, hand and finger free. That's kind of a hyphenated one word. Direct, interactive and fun.
Molly Bloom
Hmm. Very nice. All right, Ella, it is time to award your final point for this final six. Have you made your decision?
Ella
I have.
Molly Bloom
Oh, my goodness. All right, tally up those points. Ella, are you ready to crown one team the smashboom best?
Ella
I am.
Molly Bloom
Okay. Drumroll, please. And the winner is.
Ella
Texting.
Todd Douglas
Yay.
Jonathan Goldstein
I knew it.
Molly Bloom
I knew it.
Jonathan Goldstein
Next time if you get instead of a teenage judge, you get like some 70 year old
Tony Ayo
man.
Jonathan Goldstein
They all have a fighting chance. Our fingers are just too pudgy and sticky for the text.
Khalilah Holt
Why are your fingers so sticky?
Jonathan Goldstein
It's my business. I like fudge.
Ella
Me too. Me too.
Molly Bloom
Ella, was there a moment that really decided things for texting?
Ella
I think it was probably the sneak attack. It was really, really fast. I got it.
Khalilah Holt
Yeah.
Molly Bloom
Cleela really got that game show mode going.
Ella
We locked in. We locked in.
Khalilah Holt
Very impressive, Jonathan. I always like talking to you. You always make me laugh. And I do think you make some good points about the telephone and the intimacy of the relationship you can have with someone in voice versus writing.
Jonathan Goldstein
Oh, that's really nice, Khalilah. You kind of won me over. I came in here feeling, like, a little more headstrong about the phone, but I have to admit, you kind of won me over some. And that is a testament to your debating skill, your persuasiveness, and. And your velvety, dulcet tones. You get it? That's a little dig.
Khalilah Holt
That's a little.
Jonathan Goldstein
Trying to get a little slam dunk on.
Khalilah Holt
You didn't have to do that. But sportsmanship on the whole, very gratifying. Thank you.
Molly Bloom
Well, that is it for today's debate battle. Ella Crown texting the smashboom best. But what about you?
Ella
Head to smashboom.org and vote to tell us who you think won.
Molly Bloom
This episode was produced by me, Molly Bloom, Mark Sanchez, and San Anton Totten. It was sound designed by Rachel Breeze, and Mark wrote our theme song. We had engineering help from Adam Lee. Our announcer is Marley Foyer Worker Auto. And we want to give a special thanks to Austin Cross and Taylor Kaufman. Khalilah, is there anyone you'd like to give a shout out to today?
Khalilah Holt
Yes, I'd like to give a shout out to my mom, Annalise, who's one of the few people in my life that I enjoy both phoning and texting equally. She's really great in both modes.
Molly Bloom
Oh, that's very sweet. And how about you, Jonathan? Any special shout outs?
Jonathan Goldstein
I want to shout out my nine year old son, Augie, who first introduced me to smashboom best and got me listening to it. And he is a big fan. Molly.
Molly Bloom
Aw. Thank you, Augie, for introducing your dad. And, Ella, any special thanks or shout outs?
Ella
Could I shout out my dad for being here and, like, absolutely, shout out whoever you want. Then I shout out my dad for
Molly Bloom
being here and helping me. Nice. And before we go, let's check in and see who Wyatt thinks should win the debate between Monopoly and Jenga.
Ella
I think Monopoly would win because it's longer and that means more fun.
Molly Bloom
If you're between the ages of 13 and 18 and you'd like to be a judge, or if you're any age and you have an idea for for a knockdown drag out debate, head to smashboom.org contact and drop us a line. We'll be back next week with a new Smashboom best episode, Dandelions vs Orchids. Bye.
Jonathan Goldstein
Smell you later.
Ella
Farewell, Liberty Giblets.
Jonathan Goldstein
Oh yeah,
Khalilah Holt
I also hate that you said, how do you do? I found that very gross.
Ella
That's why I did.
Jonathan Goldstein
That was special for you.
Khalilah Holt
Anyway, we haven't even started debating yet.
Jonathan Goldstein
What's the one thing you've never told anyone? People just like you tell all in a podcast called the Secret Room. If you're a true story fan who can't get enough of people's most intimate dreams, desires, and regrets, check out the podcast. The Secret Room stories can be tragic, like witnessing the murder of a lover. Or hilarious, like hearing the nocturnal adventures of a sleepwalker. Or heartwarming, like the woman who found a whole new family in a most unexpected place with a DNA kit. Hear Mila's deathbed confession that her daughter's absent father is a movie star. Or about Jen's secret love affair with a man on death row. Or how Joey falls in erotic love with inanimate objects. The podcast has been lauded by People, the BBC, buzzfeed, Elle magazine and Apple. People all around you carry the most amazing secrets and you're invited to the Secret Room for a front row seat to stories that may jar and amaze you. Find the Secret Room, a podcast about the stories no one ever tells. Anywhere you get your podcasts, this is an iHeart podcast.
Molly Bloom
Guaranteed Human.
Episode: Jonathan Vs. Khalilah on Smash Boom Best
Host: Jonathan Goldstein
Producer: Khalilah Holt
Guest Host: Molly Bloom (Smash Boom Best)
Judge: Ella (Oregon City)
Release Date: June 25, 2026
In this lively crossover episode, Heavyweight’s Jonathan Goldstein and producer Khalilah Holt bring their classic banter to a kids’ debate show, Smash Boom Best, hosted by Molly Bloom. The timely and relatable debate: Phone Calls vs. Texting. Jonathan champions the art of calling, while Khalilah advocates for the modern magic of texting. The episode is judged by Ella, a musical, bracelet-making teen from Oregon City. The spirited, often comic debate is full of nostalgia, personal anecdotes, and clever insights about how we communicate now.
Memorable Quote:
“We’re, we’re here to talk about it. ...the point is it’s always better to use your words rather than a knuckle sandwich to the throat of your adversary.”
—Jonathan Goldstein (02:00)
Notable Moment:
“The sound of being loved is a phone call. ...I want to spend my precious minutes in real time with you, even if I can’t be there in real life.”
—Jonathan Goldstein (09:55)
Quote:
“So many times I’ve been in a situation where I’m calling, leaving a message, they don’t answer. They call me back, I’m in the middle of something, I can’t answer, they leave a message. And you know what we always do? We always switch to texting.”
—Khalilah Holt (14:50)
Notable Line:
“A phone call causes panic. ...A call is either spam, your college... asking if you’d like to give them more money, or someone delivering bad news.”
—Khalilah Holt (19:35)
Khalilah:
Jonathan:
Judge’s Response:
“...texting, you might, like, do it more often or, like, with everyone and then, like, calling. Definitely with, like, specific people to show you care about them.”
—Ella (33:02)
Result: Ella quickly guesses Khalilah’s list—her speed in “game show mode” impresses the judge and ultimately tips the verdict.
Six-Word Summaries:
Aftermath & Sportsmanship
This episode delivers a delightful blend of nostalgia, generational perspectives, and civil, comedic debate on how we connect in the 21st century. Jonathan Goldstein makes an impassioned, poetic case for the intimacy of the human voice, while Khalilah Holt champions the low-key, creative convenience of texting. The debate is close, but thanks to razor-quick clues in the sneak attack, texting wins the day—and the hearts of the younger set.
Final Takeaway:
Texting may have triumphed, but the episode pays loving tribute to both the old and the new—and, as always, highlights the joy and messiness of trying to connect with each other, whether by ring or ding.