#65 Meredith

Summary

Heavyweight – Episode #65: Meredith
Host: Jonathan Goldstein
Date: December 11, 2025

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Overview

This episode of Heavyweight explores the tangle of blame, accountability, and apologies within a family after an accidental (and intense) marijuana edible overdose. Host Jonathan Goldstein journeys into Meredith's story—a comically harrowing misadventure after eating her son's weed gummies, and a subsequent struggle for an apology that spirals into family history, a second accidental drugging, and deeper questions about modeling forgiveness and contrition. The episode blends Jonathan’s signature humor, psychological curiosity, and heart, rounding out with perspectives from family, experts, and friends.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Meredith's Gummy Mishap

[04:32]–[12:39]

• Meredith, a mom with a notorious sweet tooth, accidentally eats about 100mg of THC-laced gummies stashed in her son Aiden's room, believing them to be regular peach rings.
• The ordeal triggers a severe, anxiety-filled, 23-hour high. Meredith descends into a semi-conscious state, plagued by wild hallucinations and physical debilitation.
• She discovers the gummies weren’t ordinary: the color (purple and blue), packaging (Ziploc bag), and location (her son’s room) were all clues she overlooked.
• In the aftermath, Meredith's anger isn’t just about her accidental trip—the real rub is Aiden’s lack of apology and insistence that it was all her fault.

Memorable Quote:
“And in the moment of time it took me to think that thought, my knees buckled. I drop on all fours, because whatever was coming for me hit me like a freight train.”
— Meredith [08:48]

2. Unpacking Blame and Family Dynamics

[12:39]–[18:18]

• The incident leaves unresolved tension: Aiden sees Meredith as responsible for helping herself to his things, while Meredith feels unseen and let down.
• Attempts to adjudicate blame, including negotiations on a canoe (from 50/50 down to 99/1), only highlight the family’s inability to meaningfully apologize or share accountability.
• The story expands to more mishaps, illustrating a tendency in the family toward misunderstandings and unintended harm (e.g., Meredith accidentally liberating a neighbor’s dog).

Quote:
“For three years, Meredith and Aiden have been at a stalemate in terms of who should be held accountable. It keeps popping up, and nothing gets settled.”
— Jonathan Goldstein [17:41]

3. The Airplane Incident: A Second Accidental Drugging

[19:13]–[22:09]

• Daughter Quinn reminds Meredith about another episode: Meredith, on a trip home from Europe, gives Aiden a sleeping pill only for him to collapse at the airport, prompting a medical emergency and missed flight.
• This parallel event reveals that neither Aiden nor Meredith are particularly adept at concern or apology in the heat of a crisis.
• Both sides exhibit a pattern: minimizing the other's distress, prioritizing logistics over empathy (Meredith pushes to board the plane; Aiden rushes to work during Meredith’s THC breakdown).

Quote:
“Basically what I remember was kind of just like half consciousness. She had just like kind of grabbed me by the shoulders and she was like, we need to get it together, you need to get on this flight.”
— Aiden [20:35]

4. He Said, She Said: Reassessing the Gummy Incident

[22:32]–[23:28]

• Aiden disputes Meredith’s memory, insisting the gummies were well-hidden and challenging other details, even denying he ever worked at P.F. Chang’s (it was Panda Express, months prior).
• Both sides harden in their positions, modeling stubbornness rather than vulnerability for others in the family.

5. The Blame Adjustment Panel: Dr. Jackie and Steve

[27:33]–[32:18]

• Jonathan consults his friend, Dr. Jackie Cohen, who strongly sides with Aiden:

  “I'm totally with the son on this one… it was on her to be like, fishing around his room and consuming candy.” [29:07]

• Contrastingly, Steve Marsh, a self-described “doctor of the streets,” empathizes with Meredith, calling 100mg an “heroic” and traumatic dose. He faults Aiden for not locking away the gummies.
• Both experts agree that apologies are needed on both sides, but differ on where the responsibility lies.

6. Finally, The Apology Showdown

[36:38]–[42:11]

• Jonathan and Steve visit Meredith and Aiden together, aiming to mediate the elusive apology.
• The exchange circles through familiar defenses but eventually, Meredith apologizes for not showing empathy when Aiden collapsed at the airport.
• Steve coaches Aiden through a clumsy but heartfelt apology for the gummies:

  “Okay, I'm sorry that my actions cause you harm, and... that my irresponsibility was inflicted upon you.”
  — Aiden [41:31]

• The conversation broadens to the family’s pattern of rarely modeling apologies—perhaps tracing back to how Meredith’s own parents never apologized to her.

7. Family Patterns and Hope for Change

[42:11]–[45:13]

• Meredith reflects on growing up feeling sidelined, never receiving apologies, and wonders how the pattern has echoed into her own parenting.
• The episode closes with the suggestion that generational change is possible, but not easy, and that trying to do better is itself an act of care.

Quote:
“Like family heirlooms or the gene for colorblindness, the value of apologizing is handed down. But if you didn't come from a family where there was space for all that, it's hard to create that space. When you become a parent yourself, how can you give the thing you never received?”
— Jonathan Goldstein [44:36]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Apology Stalemate:

  “I’m looking for a shrapnel, okay, of accountability, but she hasn’t even gotten that.”
  — Jonathan [17:32]

• On Parenting and Work Ethic:

  “He was so committed to his work at P F Chang's that his mom took the back burner.”
  — Meredith (joking) [12:26]

• On the Family Model for Apologies:

  “I ask her about it later on, and she tells me that she was. She was thinking about her most recent relationship. It had just ended. And she says the situation could have used an apology. She wants her son to learn from her experience.”
  — Jonathan [42:11]

• Episode Reflection:

  “We can't change yesterday and we can't know who we will be tomorrow... Today is the right day to love, believe, do, and mostly live.”
  — Jonathan [45:19]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Opening & Introductions: [00:06–04:32]
• The Weed Gummy Incident: [04:32–12:39]
• Struggle Over Apologies & Family Stories: [12:39–18:18]
• The Airplane Pill Incident: [19:13–22:09]
• Aiden's Counterpoints & Family Stubbornness: [22:32–23:28]
• Expert Opinions (Dr. Jackie & Steve): [27:33–32:18]
• Meeting for Apologies (Mediation): [36:38–42:11]
• Family Reflections & Generational Wisdom: [42:11–45:19]
• Closing Reflections: [45:19–end]

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Episode Tone

The episode is humorous yet poignant, balancing absurdity with emotional gravity. Jonathan Goldstein’s warm, self-deprecating narration and Meredith’s good-natured candor carry the tone. There’s a running, lighthearted motif of misadventure, denial, and deadpan family skepticism, but also genuine longing for connection, self-awareness, and growth.

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Takeaway

Meredith is a classic Heavyweight episode: an outlandish mishap becomes a doorway into family psychology and intergenerational patterns. Laughter, regret, and the slow work of learning to apologize (and mean it) make this episode a resonant listen for anyone who’s ever been trapped between yesterday’s mistakes and the hope for better tomorrows.

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For more, follow Heavyweight on Instagram @HeavyweightPodcast or write to [e-mail].

Transcript

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Pushkin.

We have quite a story for you today. But before we begin, a warning. This episode contains themes of drug use. Listener discretion is advised.

[Co-host or Friend]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Oh, finally. I wanted to tell you about my billboard in Times Square.

[Co-host or Friend]

Oh, wow, you're jelly.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

You want a billboard too?

[Co-host or Friend]

I would die. I feel like you like it.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

What gives you that impression?

[Co-host or Friend]

Your relationship with being famous, I'm sure, is something as an artist that you.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Wait, hang on a second. Did you just say that I was famous? No, it sounds like you did. And something of an artist.

[Co-host or Friend]

I said you wanting to be famous and your relationship to wanting to be famous.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Do you remember? Do you remember?

[Co-host or Friend]

Are you recording?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Because I said, do you remember?

[Co-host or Friend]

I'm asking.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

I'm recording you in my memory.

[Co-host or Friend]

Am I going to hear this on the radio?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

You're definitely not going to hear this on the radio.

[Co-host or Friend]

Oh, I. Oh, yeah. Because it's not a radio. Because it's a podcast, right?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

You know that I do a podcast.

Am I on speakerphone?

[Co-host or Friend]

No.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Because you know when you put someone on speakerphone, you're supposed to tell them.

From Pushkin Industries, I'm Jonathan Goldstein and this is Heavyweight. Today's episode. Meredith.

Right after the break.

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[Meredith]

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[Jonathan Goldstein]

I consider myself a fair person. If a plumber enters my home, I offer him or her a cup of coffee when presented with a bowl of restaurant mints, even when unobserved, I make sure to leave a few for the next guy. And if you have the good fortune of eating tapas with me, you should know right now you'll be eating at least half the plate. So when Meredith, a fellow Minnesotan, asked me to weigh in on a matter of fairness, I was raring to go.

And so it is on a sunny day in late March that I find myself pulling up to Meredith's. Hi, Jonathan. In the flesh. Yes, it is. Hello. Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you, too. Hi. Meredith ushers me inside.

[Meredith]

I thought you'd have, like, bigger hair.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

I have no hair.

[Meredith]

Really? Has it always been that way?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Have I been? I was born bald. Yeah.

As Meredith acclimatizes herself to my unexpected baldness, we settle in.

[Meredith]

Okay, I'm gonna get some coffee. I gotta have a cup.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

How much coffee have you had today?

[Meredith]

Can you tell?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Meredith fetches her fourth cup this morning, and I have a look around. She just moved in here three months ago, but the house is already feeling homey. You have a quote from the Dalai.

[Meredith]

Lama on the this was a gift to me from my Galentine's party. There are only two days in the year that nothing can be done. One is called yesterday and the other is called tomorrow. So today is the right day to love, believe, do, and mostly live.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Well, no offense to the Dalai Lama, but I've built a career on the idea that something can be done yesterday. Or at least about yesterday. And so I have Meredith tell me about her past misfortune, which all began she says, three years ago on a.

[Meredith]

Saturday morning, you have to understand that a. I'm a sweet tooth. Okay. And the second really important piece of information is that my sister in law owned a candy store.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

This sister in law routinely sent boxes of candy to Meredith's three children. And because of the whole sweet tooth thing, Meredith would tell her kids to keep the candy in their room. That way she'd only have access when she was in their rooms tidying up. The agreement even had a name.

[Meredith]

I would take what I would call the candy tax as a price of me helping them clean up their room.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

And cleaning up is what Meredith was doing on the Saturday morning in question. She was in Aiden's bedroom. Aiden is her son, 17 at the time. And Meredith was hunting for his leftover.

[Meredith]

Cereal bowls when I saw on the table some peach rings. You know, those, like, little chewy gummy candies?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Yeah, I know them well.

[Meredith]

Right. They're really tasty. And I shoved them in my mouth like nom nom, nom.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Meredith finished Aiden's entire bag of peach rings, candy tacks. From there, she moved on to her daughter's room to continue cleaning.

[Meredith]

And it was about 30 minutes later when I started to feel a little bit, you know, like a little bit. Oh, something's not quite right.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

At that moment, a thought popped into Meredith's mind. What if the peach rings weren't just peach rings?

[Meredith]

Maybe a small detail. Most times peach rings look like orange and white. Yeah, these were purple and blue. But I didn't think anything of it other than, oh, it must be a different version of peach rings. Maybe they're flavored blueberry.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Sure, those blueberry flavored peach rings. Then there was also where she'd found the blueberry flavored peach rings.

[Meredith]

In a Ziploc bag.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

They don't usually come in a Ziploc.

[Meredith]

Oh, they don't usually come in a Ziploc.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

How big was the Ziploc bag?

[Meredith]

Like those little.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Like the kind you would put drugs in?

[Meredith]

No, Jonathan. The kind you put a sandwich in.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Meredith just thought Aiden had put the gummies in a Ziploc to, you know, preserve freshness. But now, as her head began to swim, she thought a new thought.

[Meredith]

And in the moment of time it took me to think that thought, my knees buckled. I drop on all fours because whatever was coming for me hit me like a freight train.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

A freight train freighted with boxcar after boxcar of gelatinous marijuana.

[Meredith]

My son comes running up the stairs, and I yell to him, what was in those gummies? All he says is, what were you doing in my room? I then say, what was in those gummies? He says, how many did you eat? And I always remember trembling. I said, all of them. How much was in those? He's like, Mom, 25 milligrams each.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Meredith had eaten four peach gummies. That is 100 milligrams of weed.

[Meredith]

I'm the person that takes the gummy that somebody gives you at five and starts shaving it down. So I knew like two and a half is my limit.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

She'd ingested 40 times her limit.

[Meredith]

And then I start yelling, well, you just killed your mother.

The next several hours I can only describe as kind of coming, floating in and out of consciousness. I mean I have moments of sort of dreamlike. I was in a forest running and then the tree roots started coming up and wrapping around my legs. I mean, that's not fun. Trees twist around your legs and are trying to like suck you down to the earth. Like, what is that?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Meredith didn't know if she needed to go to the hospital. She wondered if she would die. She phoned a few friends to ask them to check up on her throughout the day.

[Meredith]

You know, by like voice dial, because.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

You weren't even capable of using the regular dialing, Jonathan.

[Meredith]

I couldn't move my fingers enough to get the right buttons.

It's like laying there with a piano on you.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Her friends later told her. She kept repeating things like am I going to be okay? And God help me.

[Meredith]

All in all, 23 hours, oh my.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

God, that's like longer than labor.

[Meredith]

It felt, it felt in some ways eternal.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Sometime around 10am the next morning, Meredith finally began to feel herself coming down. And with that, the anger set in. Anger at her 17 year old son, Aiden.

[Meredith]

Well, now we gotta deal with the problem.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

You didn't know that he kept drugs in the house?

[Meredith]

No, I did not know.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Meredith says she'd always had open conversations with her kids about drugs and alcohol. But for the kids to keep drugs in the house was not allowed. And on top of that, leaving them out in the open when he knew about the candy tax. How could Aiden have been so careless? And what made it all the more upsetting? While Meredith was on all fours, Aiden flees.

[Meredith]

He's like, I gotta go to work and I'm just left here having to somewhat fend for myself.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Was a part of you proud that you had raised a son who, you know, honored his work responsibilities?

[Meredith]

He was so committed to his work at P F Chang's that his mom took the back burner.

You know, I probably did raise a kid with a good work ethic, I'll give him that.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

But here's the thing that three years later, Meredith still can't get over. Aiden refused to apologize. Instead, over and over, he uttered the same refrain.

[Meredith]

This is not my fault.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Aiden felt like this was on you.

[Meredith]

Aiden 100% felt this was on me and that no other parent would be that clueless.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Meredith admits she is the sort of person who often gets herself into these kinds of noodles.

[Meredith]

Oh, I've got a. I've got a few. I rescued a stray dog that was loose from a yard.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

What happened was Meredith's dog was routinely escaping her yard, and people around the area would post about it on next door, writing comments like, who can't control their dog? And Meredith, your dog is out again. She felt publicly shamed. And so when she saw someone else's dog that was lost, it felt like a chance to reclaim the respect of her neighbors.

[Meredith]

And I proceeded to pick it up. It was a 40 pound dog, and I took it and really felt that I was doing a good deed.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

As Meredith started walking home, the dog started jolting. Spasms of gratitude, perhaps. She got the dog home safely, made a post, and waited. Finally, the owner showed up.

[Meredith]

And I was expecting to be met with like, oh, I'm so happy that you got my dog. I've been worried sick about it. Well, it turns out that I had.

Taken a dog from a home that had an invisible fence.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Oh, that's why it was jolting.

[Meredith]

Yes, it was jolting. Yes. And instead it was, you took my dog from our yard and you shocked it. And thanks.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Is this why you had to move?

[Meredith]

It's probably a consideration.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

As for the drugging, however, Meredith doesn't think it was all her fault.

[Meredith]

This could happen to any of us. I even googled, like, looking for validation of, like, oh, this happens all the time. Right?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Sadly, Meredith didn't find the validation she was looking for.

[Meredith]

A lot more stories about dogs. But you know what? I think this has probably happened to a lot more people, but maybe they're harboring some sense of shame about it.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

They're just not talking about it.

[Meredith]

They're not talking about it. If it happened to you, you are not alone. If it could happen to you, beware. Okay, Maybe assess the color of the gummies. Maybe assess.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Sorry to interrupt, but who do you think you're talking to right now?

[Meredith]

I'm talking parents like me that wouldn't think their kid would have gummy candy in their room.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

The thing about people like Meredith, people who can laugh at themselves, is that it can be hard to know when they need to be taken seriously. Meredith can joke about the gummies, but it doesn't mean it wasn't scary at the time or that she doesn't want some acknowledgment from Aiden.

[Meredith]

I keep waiting for this moment when he comes through the door. He says, mom, I've been reflecting a lot, and I thought about that time when this happened, and I just want to say, I get it. I'm sorry.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Cause he never. He never apologized.

[Meredith]

No, he's. He's never apologized. Ironically, of my three kids, he is probably the most sensitive in terms of care and concern. So it was somewhat surprising to me that he could dismiss that experience so flippantly.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Meredith has tried to draw the apology out, bringing it up once or twice a year. She tells herself it's an important, teachable moment. She tells herself that Aiden's refusal to apologize reflects poorly on her parenting. So she keeps nudging him, Most recently in a canoe.

[Meredith]

Just the two of us. There was no escaping, and I went so far as, like, negotiation. Okay. I started at 50, 50, meaning percent.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Of blame, 50% on her, 50% on Ayden. Aiden is an econ and computer science major, and Meredith was trying to speak his language.

[Meredith]

I went down to 80. 20.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Okay, 20% on him.

[Meredith]

20% on him.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

You wouldn't accept that.

[Meredith]

He would not accept that. At this point, I was like, well, now what do I have to lose? I went all the way down to 99.1. I'm looking for a shrapnel. Okay.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Of accountability, but she hasn't even gotten that.

For three years, Meredith and Aiden have been at a stalemate in terms of who should be held accountable. It keeps popping up, and nothing gets settled. Meredith has tried recruiting friends to adjudicate, but Aidan has always questioned their impartiality.

[Meredith]

So I thought a real, independent, objective third party might be the ticket to finding our path here. Someone that could see both sides and talk empathetically with my son about accountability. Do you think it's something you could be able to, like, broker?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

While we're all familiar with the idea of a claim adjuster, what Meredith needs is a blame adjuster. Someone who can adjust some blame onto her son and make him apologize. I accept the job, beg forgiveness once more for my baldness, and ready myself to leave when you want to take it.

[Podcast Sponsor Voice]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Meredith's phone rings.

[Advertisement Voice]

Hey.

[Meredith]

Hey. Hey.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

On the phone is Meredith's eldest daughter, Quinn.

[Meredith]

I'm here with Jonathan.

[Advertisement Voice]

Hi.

[Quinn]

Hello.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Though Quinn was out of town during the weed dosing catastrophe, she remembers it well.

[Meredith]

Oh, right.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

As long as we have her on the line, I ask Quinn if there's anything more I should know about. Quinn pauses, then asks her mother a question.

[Meredith]

Was this before or after your airplane incident? Oh, my God, Quinn. The airplane incident.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

What's the airplane incident? Enter exhibit B. The airplane incident.

[Aiden]

I need to have my side of the story on this because there's some definite biases from my mom.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

This is Meredith's son, Aiden. And when I phone him up at college, he tells me that the gummy incident is only one of two accidental druggings in this family.

[Aiden]

My mom was on a business trip out to the UK and Scotland. And then as a birthday present, I had just like gotten to go with.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Three months after the weed gummies, Aiden went on a trip with his mom. They were in the Amsterdam airport, about to board the nine hour flight back home to Minneapolis.

[Aiden]

I knew she had like some sort of like sleeping aide. And I was like, oh, maybe I could like, have some for the flight.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Aiden's about twice Meredith's size, so when he asked, she figured it couldn't hurt to give him half of what she normally took.

[Aiden]

And then I just remember, like being in the Amsterdam airport and I was like, man, I feel really gross, right? Like, I felt like pretty nauseous when boarding started.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Aiden was having a hard time standing.

[Aiden]

Straight, like, right as I hand them my passport and ticket. I just completely pass out.

[Meredith]

He's behind me. And then I hear a crash as Aiden has collapsed into the stanchions.

[Aiden]

Basically what I remember was kind of just like half consciousness. She had just like kind of grabbed me by the shoulders and she was like, we need to get it together. You need to get on this flight.

[Meredith]

They look at me, they're like, there's no way you are going on this flight and you need to go to medical emergency or whatever.

[Aiden]

And I remember they like, ran tests and like, had to contact like, poison control.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Just like Meredith. Aiden was fine eventually, but also like Meredith. Aiden was disappointed by his mom's reaction. Does she accept blame for the incident? Has she ever apologized to you for that?

[Aiden]

I don't, I don't. I don't know. I. I don't want to flat out say no, but I'm like, leaning more. More likely not.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Aiden says when he first collapsed, Meredith was mostly focused on getting him onto the plane, even if it meant dragging his still limp body down the jetway. Weekend at Bernie Style.

[Aiden]

I would have expected that. The priority is that I'm okay, Not like, oh, but we need to get on the plane.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Right. Meredith wanted to keep things on track, which not so different from Aiden, who hurried off to PF Chang's. And to top it all off, when they eventually were rebooked on a new flight, Meredith's ticket got upgraded. And guess who didn't offer that upgraded ticket to a certain somebody.

[Aiden]

I remember asking her, oh, did you ever consider, like, maybe if I got the seat for that flight?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

I said that you had been the one who was drugged. So, yeah.

[Aiden]

And then she said, I was supposed to be home 10 hours ago. Which, like, that behavior in that scenario was uncharacteristic.

[Co-host or Friend]

They're very good pals.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

This is Meredith's daughter again, Quinn.

[Co-host or Friend]

But I think they have a harder time, like, being.

Soft around each other.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Hmm.

[Co-host or Friend]

When they get in disagreements, both of.

[Meredith]

Them just, like, harden up really quick.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Quinn says Aiden and Meredith are both similar in their stubbornness. To which, regarding the gummy incident, Aidan holds a hard line. He says Meredith is wrong about basic facts, like, for one thing, the drugs weren't out in the open, but rather stashed in an old iPhone box on a shelf. Andy says he would never have left the house while Meredith was still panicking on the floor. It was only once she was panicking safely in bed that he went off to his job, of which I never worked. At P F Chang's, Aiden briefly worked at a Panda Express, but that was months earlier. The job he was rushing off to was his caddying job at a golf course. My son had to head off to go serve Chinese food. Does that sound like more egregious than, so my son had to leave to hit the golf course.

[Aiden]

Um, I mean, both of those. When you say it like that, that just sounds like selfish.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

When I first got into this, I was certain that Aiden and Aiden alone was to blame. But now that I've spoken with Aiden, I'm not so sure. I'm still willing to adjudicate, but I'm starting to feel a bit out of my depth. Which drugging was worse? I don't know much about drugs. I couldn't tell you the difference between happy dust and happy powder. Lucky for me, though, I know a medical expert.

After the break, a very special guest, A very special doctor guest. It's Jackie.

[Advertisement Voice]

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Hmm, it's gotta be when I'm really.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Craving it and it's convenient.

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[Jonathan Goldstein]

Okay, like a freshly baked cookie made with real butter available right down the.

[Meredith]

Street at am pm.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Or a savory breakfast sandwich I can.

[Meredith]

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[Jonathan Goldstein]

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[Jonathan Goldstein]

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[Meredith]

Stop by AMPM where the snacks and.

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[Meredith]

Hello, Jackie.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

No, this isn't a glitch in your podcast app. The episode is not starting over. But this is Indeed my friend, Dr. Jackie Cohen. Dr. Jackie Cohen is a doctor. And I'm phoning her today in her expert capacity. I start with the airplane incident. So what do you think? Like, you know what I mean? Like, is that a reasonable. Like, would you do that?

[Co-host or Friend]

Would you share my pills with my son? Of course not. Of course not. Listen, okay, it's not the worst. It's not the worst thing she ever did. It's not the worst parenting moment, but it's certainly not up there. And the reason it's not up there is that, I mean, the only red flags for me in this is she's coming to you with her problems. So that's the first problem.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

That's the biggest litmus for you.

[Co-host or Friend]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

So basically, I mean, by your logic, you think that every single person who has come to me in all these years is not well by virtue of the fact that they have come to me for help. Look at our dear friend Mary Claude. Mary Claude came to me for help.

[Co-host or Friend]

She did.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Yes, she did. There's an episode. Did I not help her to get her real estate license? Did I not?

[Co-host or Friend]

Okay, I'm not gonna lie to you.

[Meredith]

Okay?

[Co-host or Friend]

Yes. And it was a good story. Okay, fine. You're right. You're absolutely right.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Although Jackie concedes the point that not everyone who comes to me for help is certifiably deranged, she does think Meredith is certifiably undeserving of an apology. From Jackie's perspective, it's Aiden who deserves one.

[Co-host or Friend]

I'm totally with the sun on this one. I think his response has been so appropriate, like, you know what it was on her to be like fishing around his room and consuming candy.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Though, when I tell Jackie about the seat upgrade.

[Co-host or Friend]

She gave it to him, right?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

No, she didn't. She took it herself.

She does seem to enjoy Meredith's chutzpah.

[Co-host or Friend]

I mean, the least she could do is let him sleep it off comfortably, right?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

That's what the kid felt.

[Co-host or Friend]

Yeah, I'm totally with kid. Kid's great, by the way. Kid is on the ball.

[Meredith]

Hey.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

How are you?

[Steve Marsh]

I'm good.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

As with any medical question, I need a second opinion. So after my call with Jackie, I consult with a second drug expert. Not a doctor per se, but a doctor of the Streets. Are you in your underwear?

[Steve Marsh]

Yeah, sorry.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

This is my friend Steve Marsh. If his voice sounds familiar, it's because he was the subject of another episode of this podcast and is thus, by Jackie's estimation, unwell. Steve has done ayahuasca in Peru, Iboga in Gabon, and participated in the unofficial champions league of Ecstasy at Berghain in Berlin. Even though I pretty much don't know what any of these words mean, I do know that Steve has been breaking on through to the other side since his teens and hiding weed from his mother since he was in diapers. So I tell him the gummy story and ask for his take.

[Steve Marsh]

I don't think he's really understanding what his mom went through. Maybe, like, I've done the heroic dose of almost any drug you can name and yeah, that's a serious dosage.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

So serious. Steve says the 25 milligram gummies aren't even legal in the state of Minnesota. Steve himself has never taken 100 milligrams of edibles at one time. But he's sympathetic to Meredith's plight because of the time he, quote, dabbed weed, which he explains is inhaling a super high concentrate of thc.

[Steve Marsh]

I had to sit on like the side of a hill and like, you know our friend Marisa. Yeah, Marisa had to come out back and like, gently rub my back as if I was like having a panic attack, which I. I pretty much was, you know, so, like, I've been there before Meredith. I get it, you know, like, it is helpless and catatonic and scary.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

For Steve, it's pretty cut and dry. Unlike Jackie, he believes it's Aiden who owes Meredith an apology. But to make sure he has all the information, I tell him the plain story too.

[Steve Marsh]

I would argue that's nearly irrelevant.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

You know, on top of it, one of the tickets gets bumped up to first glass and she takes it as.

[Steve Marsh]

Is her maternal right. I have to say, I just think that your mom ate your drugs, man. Like, why can't you get your head around that? You have to be responsible for your shit, man.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

After weighing Jackie's expert testimony and Steve's sort of expert testimony, I can only come to one conclusion. King Solomon. Like in its tit for tatness. Meredith and Aiden need to apologize to one another. And because two apologies require two apologies. Shamans. Do you want to go there with me?

[Steve Marsh]

Sure.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

After the break. Apologies all around.

[Steve Marsh]

Yeah, I want to know where this kid is getting his high powered weed gummies too.

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[Aiden]

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[Quinn]

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[Jonathan Goldstein]

Emily said there's a really good restaurant near here called Broyers or something.

[Steve Marsh]

Broder's Broders.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Aiden is home from college for the week. And so, on a warm afternoon, Steve and I, in our capacity as independent, objective third and fourth parties, make our way to Meredith's.

[Steve Marsh]

It's, like, right here.

Is this the house?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Yeah, that looks like it. The plan is to get in, get some apologies, and get out in time for an early lunch at Breuer's Broders, or whatever it's called.

[Advertisement Voice]

Hi.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Hi. How are you? Thank you.

[Meredith]

So it's Steve, right?

[Steve Marsh]

Yeah.

[Meredith]

You've been briefed?

[Steve Marsh]

I've been briefed. I've been briefed.

[Advertisement Voice]

Okay.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Meredith welcomes us in. Aiden is seated on the far end of the living room couch. Meredith sits down beside him. Steve and I begin by trying to secure an apology from Aidan about the gummies.

[Aiden]

It's not like I served them on a silver platter.

[Steve Marsh]

Yeah, but hiding them sufficiently means your mom didn't overdose on weed.

[Aiden]

The thing is, I think I did.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Hide them, but unsurprisingly, Aiden is defensive.

[Aiden]

I just think there's so many signs that, like, would have just should be red flags.

[Steve Marsh]

But even if she missed them all, you're still responsible for the drugs. And if you can just admit that, then you can do drugs for the.

[Meredith]

Rest of your life.

[Steve Marsh]

What prevent you from just saying, like, I'm sorry.

At that point?

[Aiden]

I don't know. I don't.

[Meredith]

I think you. I think you probably worried.

[Steve Marsh]

Are you worried at this point?

[Aiden]

Yeah, I think that just kind of ties back to the whole thing of, like. How much of the blame is that?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Well, I don't know. I get. I think we're caught up in, like, pie charts and ratios.

[Meredith]

Yeah, we totally are.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

I mean, I. I feel like it's just, you know, my mother got hurt because of something that I was a part of. Do you feel like you were hurt and that's it?

[Aiden]

Do you feel like you were hurt? I don't.

[Meredith]

Like, I mean, you saw me basically melt and freak out.

[Aiden]

Mm.

[Meredith]

And then you checked out, which is.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Of course, how Aiden feels about how Meredith responded to him in the Amsterdam airport. A point he raises it wasn't like.

[Aiden]

Oh, my God, Aidan, are you okay? I just hear we need to get on the flight. You're just, like, you're fine. You're fine.

[Meredith]

I know, I know, I know. Because I honestly, I thought, you know, I love you, but, like, sometimes you, like, you're a little dramatic.

[Aiden]

That was.

[Meredith]

You're a little dramatic. Sometimes you're a little dramatic. And I thought, okay, how bad can it be?

[Steve Marsh]

Which is kind of what Aiden's thinking about. The beach rings. Right? Like, how bad can this be, Mom? Well, do you guys realize that there's some stuff that's happening on both sides?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

A lot of stuff on both sides. But just when I'm starting to think there will be no sorrys, Meredith starts inching towards the light.

[Meredith]

I just. I. I just felt so bad. I think I did feel, like, shame about it.

[Steve Marsh]

Right.

[Meredith]

And then making the apology more grand would just be somewhat underscoring my shame about it.

[Steve Marsh]

Sure.

[Meredith]

That I just would, like, just. Can we just move on? You know?

But I think your point is I miss your suffering. And.

I, you know, I will apologize for not being there in the right way at the time. I'm sorry. Yeah, like, I should have had more empathy for you in that situation.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Aiden nods, but he still doesn't offer an apology back. So Steve offers a helpful push.

[Steve Marsh]

So. So maybe what's going on here is just, like, you're getting better at modeling apologies. And now Aiden will go back and think about what a real remorseful apology sounds like.

[Meredith]

Maybe that's.

[Steve Marsh]

Maybe the first time he's heard one from you. Like, the. The gesture of apology could be bigger. Yeah, maybe just, like, is under rehearsed in the family.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

You know, when I spoke with Quinn, she told me that it's true, as kids, they didn't have many examples of what it looks like to say sorry and mean it, which might be why Aiden is struggling.

[Steve Marsh]

So right now you could acknowledge, Aiden, that maybe you're not good at that. Do you think you're good at apologizing from the heart?

[Aiden]

Probably not, I think.

[Steve Marsh]

Yeah, maybe it doesn't have to happen today, but, like, it's a good thing to acknowledge that, hey, I'm a kind person, I'm a good person, but I might suck at apologizing.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Mm.

[Advertisement Voice]

Yeah.

[Aiden]

That's fair. Yeah.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Yeah.

[Aiden]

I mean, like, because it's like. I mean, I could just, like, say it and then, like, again.

Okay, I'm sorry that my actions cause you harm, and. And I.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

My.

[Aiden]

That my irresponsibility was inflicted upon You.

[Meredith]

Thank you.

[Advertisement Voice]

Yeah.

[Meredith]

You know, Raimi, originally, my motive or my sort of questioning of this was, someday you're going to be in some kind of a relationship, right. With some other person in which you're going to have to see things from their perspective, and you're going to have to back down a little bit, no matter how convinced you are that you were in the right.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

It feels like Meredith is speaking from experience. I ask her about it later on, and she tells me that she was. She was thinking about her most recent relationship. It had just ended. And she says the situation could have used an apology. She wants her son to learn from her experience. That is, after all, what good parents want most.

[Meredith]

And so, you know, part of my, like, yearning here was like, how do I help you get there?

[Jonathan Goldstein]

My hope going into this was that Aiden would accept blame for the gummies and Meredith would own up for what happened in Amsterdam. A little quid pro quo, and everyone goes home happy. And that did kind of happen, sort of. In the weeks after the conversation, I find myself thinking about this business of modeling behavior that Steve had brought up. If Meredith hadn't modeled apologies for her kids, it begs the question, who had modeled, not modeling, apologies for her? So I reached back out to Meredith to ask whether her parents ever said sorry to her. I don't think so, but at times it would have been nice, she says by way of explanation. Meredith tells me about all the time she'd be left waiting after ballet class or school for her mom to pick her up.

[Meredith]

I just remember feeling like the last kid standing, waiting, like, an hour outside.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Yeah.

[Meredith]

And I think she. I don't know what she was doing, but I kind of. The message was like, well, I kind of see, I'm. I'm a lower priority. It's funny. Now I think about me picking up my kids. The horror that I would feel if I'm late by, like, five minutes.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Is it because, like, you remember that.

[Meredith]

Feeling of just waiting and feeling like, does anybody care?

[Advertisement Voice]

And it.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

And it wouldn't come with an apology.

[Meredith]

No. I wasn't allowed to be angry about it.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Right.

[Meredith]

You know, it was like, well, that's the situation. And you just gotta, like, suck it up. Suck it up.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Anything other than that would be dramatic.

[Meredith]

You know, did that somehow sort of translate down in the way I raised my kids? I mean, Aiden's reaction to me overdosing on his gummies was suck it up. Right. Which is exactly what I did to him.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

Like family heirlooms or the gene for colorblindness. The value of apologizing is handed down. But if you didn't come from a family where there was space for all that, it's hard to create that space. When you become a parent yourself, how can you give the thing you never received? I don't know the solution to that, but I do know that it can't hurt to keep trying. Do you think it's still possible to change? Like, you know, where you can have a relationship with the kids, where you can apologize to them in the moment and they hear that, feel it?

[Meredith]

Can people change?

Yeah.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

We can't change yesterday and we can't know who we will be tomorrow. Oh, Jesus. Maybe the Dalai Lama is right. Today is the right day to love, believe, do and mostly live. And hey, if you choose to smoke a little of the good stuff along the way, just be sure to keep consult your pulmonary cardiologist first. Heavyweight takes no responsibility for bad trips, only the good ones.

Now that the furniture's returning to its goodwill home.

Now that the last month's ramped in is scheming with the damage deposit, take this moment to decide.

[Steve Marsh]

If.

[Jonathan Goldstein]

We meant it, if we tried.

Or felt around for far too much.

From things that accidentally tied.

This episode of Heavyweight was produced by supervising producer Stevie Lane and me, Jonathan Goldstein, along with Phoebe Flanagan. Our senior producer is Kahlilah Holt. Editorial guidance from Emily Condon. Special thanks to Ben Nadif Haffrey, Daphne Chen, Alexandra Garridan and Sam Riceman. For more Steve Marsh, you can enjoy his written work in Minneapolis St. Paul magazine. Emma Munger mixed the episode with original music by Christine Fellowes, John K. Sampson, Blue Dot Sessions and Bobby Lord. Additional scoring by Bobble Michael, Charles Smith, Chris Zabriskie and Virginia Violet and the Rays. Our theme song is by the Weaker Thans, courtesy of Epitaph Records. Follow us on Instagram @H heavyweightpodcast or email us @H heavyweightushkin FM. We'll be back next week with the final episode of the season.

Sun in an empty room.

Sun in an empty room.

[Podcast Sponsor Voice]

This is an I Heart podcast.

[Meredith]

Guaranteed human.