"Does Using AI Signal I'm Bad at My Job? Help!"

Summary

Podcast Summary: “Does Using AI Signal I'm Bad at My Job? Help!” Help Wanted | Money News Network Release Date: January 28, 2025

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Introduction

In the January 28, 2025 episode of Help Wanted, hosted by Jason Pfeiffer of Money News Network, the discussion centers around the integration of Artificial Intelligence (AI) in professional settings and its implications on perceived competence. With his co-host Nicole Lapin on maternity leave, Jason welcomes AI expert and guest host Taran Southern to delve deep into the nuances of using AI as a tool in the workplace.

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Jason's Confession and Initial Skepticism [00:28 – 03:22]

Jason begins the episode with a candid confession about his initial skepticism towards using AI in marketing. He recounts meeting a marketing professional who relies heavily on AI to craft marketing messages, which led him to question the individual's competence. Jason muses:

“I instantly thought, this person must be bad at marketing. This person must be incompetent at the thing that they are paid to do...” ([00:28]).

Despite his own use of AI for thought starters, Jason admits to concealing this practice to maintain an image of authenticity, fearing that reliance on AI might be perceived negatively by his audience.

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Introducing Taran Southern: The AI Advocate [02:27 – 03:22]

To address his doubts, Jason introduces Taran Southern, an early adopter and educator in AI integration. Taran shares her extensive experience with AI, including composing a pop album using AI tools in 2018, long before such technologies became mainstream. She emphasizes her passion for experimenting with AI and her commitment to teaching others how to effectively incorporate these tools into their workflows.

“I've adopted them into every single aspect of my workflow and I now teach people how to integrate them into their workflows...” ([02:44]).

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Understanding Human Cognition vs. AI [03:41 – 05:40]

The conversation shifts to a comparative analysis of human cognitive processes and AI functionalities. Taran draws parallels between how humans learn through mimicking and AI's data processing capabilities. She posits that humans are inherently absorptive and iterative, constantly integrating new information to create innovative outputs—much like AI systems.

“It becomes a little less scary thinking about this machine... we are all absorbing and iterating and building upon everything that has come before us.” ([04:29]).

Jason reflects on historical instances where multiple inventors simultaneously developed similar groundbreaking ideas, attributing it to the collective absorption and combination of existing knowledge—mirroring AI’s operational methodology.

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AI as a Tool for Amplifying Competence [05:53 – 09:59]

Taran explores whether AI serves as a tool that amplifies creativity and competence or if it fosters laziness among users. Citing studies from Columbia Business School and The Atlantic, she highlights that highly competent individuals can significantly scale and enhance their output using AI, whereas those with lesser skills may not reap the same benefits.

“Highly competent users tend to massively scale their output and have better output when using AI. The inverse is true for workers who fall at the lower end of the talent pool.” ([06:22]).

Jason concurs, noting that AI's effectiveness largely depends on the user's expertise and the quality of their prompts. He shares his own experience using AI for LinkedIn posts, finding that while AI can aid in speed and research, it often lacks the depth to advance his thinking substantively.

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The GRIPE Framework for Effective AI Prompting [11:05 – 13:25]

To enhance AI interactions, Taran introduces the GRIPE framework—a structured approach to crafting prompts for AI tools like ChatGPT. GRIPE stands for:

• Goal: Define the end objective (e.g., “collect email leads”).
• Role: Specify the role AI should assume (e.g., “act as a witty marketer”).
• Instructions: Provide clear and specific directives (e.g., “draft an engaging email pitch for busy entrepreneurs”).
• Parameters: Set constraints on tone, format, style, or length (e.g., “under 500 words, in the style of the New Yorker”).
• Examples: Offer sample outputs to guide AI’s response.

“When you use this framework, it's pretty remarkable how much better the results are...” ([13:09]).

Jason muses on his limited use of AI for LinkedIn posts and acknowledges that employing the GRIPE framework could yield more sophisticated and valuable outputs.

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Personal Experimentation with AI and Custom GPT [16:52 – 20:11]

Jason shares his ongoing experiment with creating a custom GPT tailored to his LinkedIn posting style, co-developed with Taran. This personalized AI aims to generate content that aligns closely with his unique voice and insights, potentially saving him significant time each morning.

“Starting next week, you're going to have your custom GPT. The custom Jason Pfeiffer GPT...” ([19:29]).

However, he expresses a sentimental conflict about sacrificing his planned morning walks for AI-assisted productivity, highlighting the emotional dimensions of integrating AI into daily routines.

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Philosophical Reflections on Authenticity and AI [21:02 – 25:34]

The dialogue deepens into philosophical territory, debating the authenticity of work produced with AI assistance. Jason draws parallels with historical artistic workshops where masterpieces were often a collaborative effort, challenging the notion that AI usage diminishes the authenticity or value of one's work.

“What is the output of a person? What is someone's real, true work?...” ([23:02]).

Taran echoes this sentiment, asserting that humans have always built upon existing ideas and that AI is merely the latest tool in this evolutionary process. She references Steve Jobs’ idea that “good artists copy, great artists steal,” emphasizing that creativity is inherently about integration and adaptation.

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Reevaluating Perceptions of Competence [26:46 – 29:44]

Returning to the initial dilemma, Jason questions whether using AI to produce high-quality work implies a lack of underlying competence or if it's merely a reflection of adapting to modern tools. Taran contends that as AI becomes more sophisticated, discerning the true source of quality work becomes increasingly challenging.

“We are all just meme copying machines... Are we that special?” ([25:24]).

Jason grapples with balancing his reservations against the practical realities of AI’s ubiquity in today's professional landscape, ultimately contemplating whether the quality of output should outweigh concerns about the tools used to achieve it.

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Conclusion: Embracing AI as an Extension of Creativity [29:45 – 33:10]

The episode wraps up with a consensus that utilizing AI does not inherently signal incompetence but rather reflects an adaptation to evolving technological landscapes. Taran encourages embracing AI as a means to enhance productivity and creative output without compromising personal authenticity.

“It's your rough draft thinking. So whatever insight you're starting with gets embedded into the idea from the outset.” ([20:52]).

Jason concludes by recognizing the nuanced perspectives shared by Taran, hinting at a softened stance towards AI usage in his professional endeavors. He humorously acknowledges the ongoing transformation of his morning routine, anticipating positive changes with his custom GPT.

“You did. You nudged me more than a You nudge me a small tuft of hair over a ponytail...” ([31:43]).

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Key Takeaways

1. AI as an Amplifier of Competence: When used effectively, AI tools like ChatGPT can significantly enhance the productivity and output quality of skilled professionals.

2. Structured Prompting Improves AI Outputs: Utilizing frameworks such as GRIPE can lead to more tailored and valuable AI-generated content.

3. Authenticity Through Integration: AI should be viewed as an extension of one’s creativity and expertise, not a replacement. Authenticity stems from the unique insights and experiences infused into the AI-assisted outputs.

4. Philosophical Acceptance: The historical context of collaborative creation underscores that using tools to enhance work is a longstanding human practice, now accelerated by AI.

5. Evolving Perceptions: As AI becomes more integrated into professional workflows, the focus should shift from the tools used to the quality and impact of the work produced.

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Notable Quotes

• Jason Pfeiffer [00:28]: “I instantly thought, this person must be bad at marketing. This person must be incompetent at the thing that they are paid to do...”

• Taran Southern [02:44]: “I've adopted [AI tools] into every single aspect of my workflow and I now teach people how to integrate them into their workflows.”

• Taran Southern [06:22]: “Highly competent users tend to massively scale their output and have better output when using AI. The inverse is true for workers who fall at the lower end of the talent pool.”

• Taran Southern [11:39]: “GRIPE is an acronym... It doesn't matter in which order, but you just, you want to include them for the most specific, most helpful answer.”

• Jason Pfeiffer [21:02]: “What is the output of a person? What is someone's real, true work?...”

• Taran Southern [25:24]: “We are all just meme copying machines. Like, that is what we do as humans.”

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Conclusion

This episode of Help Wanted skillfully navigates the complex relationship between AI usage and professional competence. By juxtaposing personal experiences with broader philosophical debates, Jason Pfeiffer and Taran Southern offer listeners a comprehensive exploration of whether relying on AI undermines one’s expertise or serves as a powerful tool for enhancing creative and professional endeavors. The conversation ultimately advocates for a balanced perspective, recognizing AI as a facilitator of modern productivity while maintaining the irreplaceable value of human insight and authenticity.

Transcript

[Jason Pfeiffer]

This is Help Wanted, the show that makes your work work for you. I'm Jason Pfeiffer, editor in chief of.

[Nicole Lapin]

Entrepreneur magazine, and I'm money expert Nicole Lapin. On Tuesdays, Jason and I answer the helpline and help callers solve their work problems.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

And on Thursdays, I give you one way to improve your work and build a career or company you love.

[Nicole Lapin]

And it starts now.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

So I have a confession to make. I recently met this marketing guy, and this marketing guy uses AI in some of his marketing work. He uses AI to write marketing messages. And the confession is that I instantly thought, this person must be bad at marketing. This person must be incompetent at the thing that they are paid to do, because otherwise why would they use AI and then I thought, well, okay, hold up, fancy pants Jason Pfeiffer. Because I use AI in some things, but I tend to use it in this very prompty way. It's like I need some thought starters or I just need to see a bunch of mush. And so that I could. And so I was like, yeah, but, you know, but then I also think, but I do that. But I actually kind of generally hide it. Like, if I use AI in, in any kind of my social media, I will never admit that because I then think that people will think, well, this guy is not authentic. He's just sending me a bunch of AI garbage. And so why on earth would I follow him? Anyway, I wasn't sure what to make of all this because people seem to be using this stuff in their professions all the time, and that includes me. And I. I'm a little embarrassed to admit that I do. And I wonder if other people are embarrassed to admit they do. And I wonder if I am supposed to stop looking down upon them and get off my high IRL horse or I don't know what even what that metaphor means. But here is what I get to do today, because Nicole Lapin, my usual co host on this show, is still on maternity leave. So I'm just filling these episodes with wonderful, exciting guest hosts, including my friend Taran Southern, who knows a thing or two or three or four about AI. Taryn Southern, welcome to Help Wanted. Thank you for being my guest co host.

[Taran Southern]

Yay. Thank you so much for having me and to hear to be here to talk about my favorite thing in the world.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

It is your favorite thing in the world. Okay, fill us in before you start to unpack everything that I just said. Tell us all your AI things. Tell us why we should be listening to you on the subject of AI.

[Taran Southern]

Oh my gosh. Well, I started experimenting with AI tools in 2017, so very, very early. I composed a pop album in 2018 using only AI tools. There was no front facing interfaces at that time. You actually had to do a little bit of coding. But I, I just absolutely love experimenting with these tools. I've adopted them into every single aspect of my workflow and I now teach people how to integrate them into their workflows. So I'm basically teaching people how to do a much better job than that marketing individual did when you stumbled across his. And I have some thoughts on that, but hopefully by the end of this conversation, you might think a little differently.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

I. I'm. That's the reason I brought you on. It wasn't just, it wasn't just to be obnoxious and say, taryn, you cannot change my mind. Taryn, change my mind. Where should we begin? Where should we begin in unpacking and dismantling my haughtiness?

[Taran Southern]

Well, first, I think it might be helpful to just think about the way we think and understanding how similar it is to AI that we're not all that different from this machine. You know, as little babies, we all grow up mimicking. That is how we learn. We mimic inputs that come into our brain. We mimic, and then from there we start to actually integrate these learnings and then create new outputs and that becomes creative thought. And so a lot of times we don't even realize, you know, what our various inputs are. They're so subconscious. And we think we're having an original idea, but it's actually not original at all. It's something that, you know, we came across two years ago, and then it kind of gets enmeshed with something else that we come across, right? So if you start thinking about our own brain that way, it becomes a little less scary thinking about this machine.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

In a box, right? Which is how there's this fascinating history of lots of people coming up with the same revolutionary idea at roughly the same time, right? So like lots of people, we, we often credit to one person. Thomas Edison invented the light bulb, but there were like 10 other people inventing the light bulb at the same time. Usually we just end up giving credit to whoever successfully commercialized it first. Lots of people invented television at basically the same time. And the question is, how does this happen? How do we end up with all these people creating this groundbreaking idea at the same time? And the answer is, I guess, a version of what you were just saying, which is that we are all absorbing and combining information and so at the moment in which there were enough of the right pieces out in the world that could be combined and innovated to create the telephone or the television or the light bulb, a whole bunch of people were doing it. And then, you know, one makes it to the finish line first. But that's an interesting way of thinking about how we are all, at all times, absorbing and iterating and building upon everything that has come before us.

[Taran Southern]

That's right. That's exactly right. So I think when you think about it like that, it just becomes perhaps a little less scary. So then where do you go next with that? So we're all here, we're living in a chatgpt world.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Yeah.

[Taran Southern]

I mean, it's absolutely incredible to think in just two years time, the adoption of these tools and how they've changed everything about the way that we think about the way that we're doing business. And so it almost feels like you can't even enter the workforce without having some degree of skill set and using them. Right. So the question really becomes, are these tools actually helpful? Are they a substitute for competence? As, you know, I'll say for.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Yeah.

[Taran Southern]

Do they actually amplify creativity or CRE or force laziness? You know, there's all of these kind of questions that come about, and I will say it depends on the user. But there's a number of studies that have been done, one recently by Columbia Business School, another one that the Atlantic recently did an article about showing that highly competent users, the most sort of talented of the workforce, tend to massively scale their output and have better output when using AI. The inverse is true for workers who fall at the lower end of the talent pool. So this is a problem. This is a real problem. Yes. And I think part of that is because, you know, having real talent, we can use this, this marketing individual as our example here. You know, he. It's not just that he created something that was sort of poor, it's also that he did not have the discernment to look at that and say, this looks like it looks. This is poor. And it looks like it was written by AI and someone who actually is very talented, would have at least been able to take that information and build upon it.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Right, this is a really good point because the baseline here is that AI, for all its incredibleness, and you know, we throw around the term AI here, which means a million different things, but let's just say, you know, generative AI, as exhibited in ChatGPT. Very specific. The output of ChatGPT is. It's, it's. It's pretty good. Well, it's incredible that it's just technology that exists. Right? Like, as technology, it's just, it's just, it's remarkably incredible. But when you ask it to do specific things that you know how to do that you have some area of expertise in, then you see, it's like, it's like mediocre. It's like mediocre at best. And I find that it's pretty good at mimicking things, but it is not good at creating ideas or insights. It's good at digging up information, but it is not, to me, all that good at being truly additive. Like, if I'm looking to. If I'm writing something, chachi PT can't give me good ideas, but what it can give me is like a bunch of mush that can help me lead to the good ideas. So, anyway, I will argue.

[Taran Southern]

Sorry, go ahead.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Oh, no, no, no. Argue. Argue with me right now. I was just.

[Taran Southern]

I will argue at that point.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Okay.

[Taran Southern]

I will argue that that might. There might be. That might be a force function of the questions being asked of GPT. Okay, might be. Now, I've also had the same experience where sometimes I put something in and I'm like, this is just so generic.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Yeah.

[Taran Southern]

But I have, you know, I have a whole prompting framework. I also have a series of questions that I turn to when I am looking for those kinds of strokes of insight. Stroke of genius. Because what ChatGPT can do is it can take all the data of the universe. And, you know, I. My little brain does not have all the data in the universe. So, sure, when I have a stroke of genius, it's usually because I'm pulling in some piece of sort of data from. From some other discipline that I've encountered. And now all of a sudden, boom. Insight. So if I can force chat GPT to do that for me, all of a sudden I get these really unique insights. And sometimes that means asking questions like, you know, what's a way someone might approach this for a provocative result? Think outside the box. Get. Get weird. Consider this from an alternate viewpoint. You know, what are my blind spots here in my thinking? And when you start poking even at your own ideas, that's where I think things start to get interesting. I. When you start asking it to look at a problem through a completely different lens, that's where things get really interesting.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Right.

[Taran Southern]

And so oftentimes it can just be a function of the questions.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

But are you saying that you're drawing out unique insights from ChatGPT or are you saying that you're drawing out information that you didn't know yourself or would have struggled to find access to? And then in your very intelligent, creative brain, you are combining new information from ChatGPT with whatever existing, you know, insights, frameworks, models you have in your head and then you are outputting something genuinely unique.

[Taran Southern]

It's both. I feel like it's both for me, you know, and part of this is like mastery is a product of repetition. You know, if they say it takes what, 10 years to learn to become.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

A master at a school, or 10,000 hours if you're Malcolm Gladwell, that's.

[Taran Southern]

That was one aspect of this is just the ability to rapid prototype. You're rapidly prototyping ideas, you're rapidly prototyping the communication of these ideas. And so even by doing that, I think there is, there is a learning there that's very, very helpful. But to answer your question, it's been both for me.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Okay, let's. I want to get back to the kind of competence and competence perception point. But first I just have to know. So you said there are like specific questions that you ask ChatGPT or specific, like frameworks that you're using to prompt it. Give me. Yeah, give me some tactical guidance here. What are you doing?

[Taran Southern]

Sure. Okay. I'm actually going to pull up my prompt framework so that you have my handy framework. I call it the gripe. Gripe because.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Because it's an acronym.

[Taran Southern]

You gripe it? Yep, it's an acronym and if you use it, you'll never gripe about your results again.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Oh, boom. Okay, what is, what is gripe? What does GRIPE stand for? G, R, I, P, E. What does that mean?

[Taran Southern]

That's right. So all of these are components that you want in your prompt and it doesn't matter in which order, but you just, you want to include them for the most specific, most helpful answer. So the first is ensuring that your goal. What is your end objective here? So it might be to collect email leads, right?

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Yeah.

[Taran Southern]

The role that you are asking, that's R for role that you are asking GPT to play. So act as a witty marketer or a seven year old, you know, toy enthusiast.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Sure.

[Taran Southern]

Next would be I for instructions. This is providing very specific instructions. I want you to draft an engaging email pitch for busy entrepreneurs. Then P parameters. And this one, this is where most people fall short, is in the parameters. Parameters can be the tone, the format, the style, the constraints that you have, you know, so I need this to be under 500 words in the style of the New Yorker. Use bullet points for clarity, make it bold, relatable, punchy.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Right, right, right.

[Taran Southern]

All of those are parameters.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Uhhuh.

[Taran Southern]

And then finally E for examples, actually providing a couple of attached specific examples that mimic this style that you're looking for. And when you use this framework, it's pretty remarkable how much better the results are than your standard. Hey, write me an email pitch for so and so.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Right? Because without all that, you're basically expecting ChatGPT to read your mind to know.

[Taran Southern]

And it's just taking the average of all the crap that it has in this instance, which is a lot of crap narrowing in. In. Right, it's narrowing in quite a lot in a number of different areas.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Okay, that's. That's interesting. And as you were saying that I was thinking about how I do not do all of that though. Do you do some of it when I've toyed around with it. Like for example, I post every day on LinkedIn and this has been very good for me. Strong recommendation. I post every day on LinkedIn. I've built a big following on LinkedIn and I do not prolific.

[Taran Southern]

Your writing is prolific there.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

I appreciate that. Well, that is because I'm sacrificing 7:30 to 8:30am every morning to LinkedIn. My kids get out the door, I make a toaster waffle with peanut butter and bananas on top, make myself some tea, and I sit down and I hunt for an advertisement to write about. And then I have to do a whole bunch of crap. I gotta download the advertisement, I gotta write a caption and I gotta like, come up for something for this advertise. Like what I do is I do these advertisement breakdowns. So I'll say like, advertising was smart and here's why it was smart. Anyway, point is that I have been trying to get ChatGPT to just help me along with this process. Just maybe first I started by asking it. I. I'll be like, I don't know. Domino's Pizza ran this ad in 2008 called Blank, in which blank happens. Did any executives from Domino's Pizza or whatever ad agency they used give an interview explaining the thinking behind this ad that I often ask that because sometimes it finds something and then I can see what they were saying or thinking. And that gives me a good insight into what was going on behind it. We did this market research and it led to what? Right? And now I have some cool insight that I can then write a post about. So I love that. That's just fast research, but oftentimes it doesn't have that. And so then I will sometimes try to do something else, which is like, I'll sit around and I'll think about it and be like, okay, well, this Domino's Pizza ad, I think it's smart because it's doing this thing and that thing. And so I don't know. Then I'll just like, I'll just say to ChatGPT, Domino's Pizza ran this ad and it's smart because it does blank and right about that in the style of this other LinkedIn post. And then I'll just like paste my last LinkedIn post in there and then it will do a very good job of replicating the. The style and pacing of the previous LinkedIn post. But I generally find that it is not actually satisfyingly advancing my thinking at all. It is, it is kind of repeating my thinking and it's saying it sometimes a little too verbose. And anyway, then I find that oftentimes the thing that is most valuable about this process is that it just like dislodges the way in which I was struggling to articulate my idea because I now saw it articulated in a different way. And then I could just be like, the way I wrote it before was bad, and the way that ChatGPT is writing it is bad. I have a better idea now, and that's usually where I end up. I'm kind of happy with that process. But what I'm recognizing about what you just said there is that you were giving ChatGPT so much more guidance that if I gave it all of those parameters and expectations and everything, it might produce something smarter to begin with. That isn't something that I would post by itself on LinkedIn, but at least could maybe give me some better clay to work with. Is that right?

[Taran Southern]

A hundred percent. And I am working on the Jason Pfeiffer custom gbt. So we will see. We will see. You can. Straight from the horse's mouth and you can be completely honest.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Yes, you have outed me, but I will go with it. Yes, you had told me while we were planning this episode, you told me that if I sent you like 40. Is that what I sent you? 40 of my past LinkedIn posts that you could. You could. I don't even, can't even articulate what it is that you're going to create for me. I can't even. I don't even have the word creating.

[Taran Southern]

A custom GPT that would essentially learn from your thinking, your style, your tone. Where you would then have these inputs and it would be able to generate new posts for you and we'll see. I think on one hand, giving it one example of a LinkedIn post is almost problematic because all it's trying to do is actually replicate the thinking in that post.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Totally what happens. Yes.

[Taran Southern]

Right. And so you need more data and that's why the more data it's fed and particularly in a custom GPT where it's also not pulling from all the other gross average LinkedIn posts. Everyone else in the universe.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Right. I'm not getting dragged down by everyone's crap.

[Taran Southern]

Correct. Now it's only pulling from your 40.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Or 50 from my crap.

[Taran Southern]

Excellent posts. And I'm very curious to see if you will have better results there. Now, it's never going to be perfect, but if I can save you an extra 30 minutes every morning so that you can spend that time doing something else that you love or just with your family, yeah, I would say that is worth it.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

No, that. That would be totally worth it. What am I. There's a sad tale. This is pull out a small violin and a tissue box for this, which is that when my kid. So this is the first year in which both of my children take the school bus, which means that this is the first year in which the kids are out the door by 7:30. And last year when my wife and I had to drop the kids off because one of them was too young for the school bus and therefore we didn't get to work until 9, I kept saying, when they're out the door at 7:30, I'm going to take a walk. I'm going to start the morning with a nice walk and I'm going to clear my head and it's going to be great. And Taryn Southern, do you know what I do instead is that they get out the door and I just sit down and I make myself a goddamn toaster waffle and I write a LinkedIn post. And I am not happy about that. I'm not happy about that.

[Taran Southern]

I have a new plan for you, okay? Starting next week, you're going to have your custom GPT. The custom Jason Pfeiffer Jason Pfeiffer GPT.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

JF GPT.

[Taran Southern]

Yeah, JF GPT. You're gonna go on that walk and you're gonna pull open that GPT and you are going to have a 10, 5 to 10 minute conversation with it where you simply share in rough draft form what your idea or ideas are for LinkedIn posts that morning from within the Constraints of your custom GPT.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Yeah.

[Taran Southern]

And when you are done with that little verbal conversation, then you can enjoy the rest of your walk in silence. And by the time you get home, you will have a varietal, a whole bucket of options that incorporates your thinking and the trained data of the GPT and we'll see what happens.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

I am very excited to see how this goes. Let us now, knowing that, return to the question of whether or not someone should look down upon me for using this or I should look down upon someone else for using it, because it's interesting. A required ingredient for this new potpourri of LinkedIn posts, as you just described it, is that it has to start with some kind of insight from me. Right. I couldn't just say LinkedIn or ChatGPT or whatever. I'm just throwing random words. JF Jason Pfeiffer GPT. Write me a LinkedIn post. I have to seed it with the, the, the core clever insight. Is that right?

[Taran Southern]

I mean, I think it's always better if that's the case. Yeah, yeah, that's what I'm saying. It's. It's your rough draft thinking. So whatever insight you're starting with gets embedded into the idea from the outset.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

So why. I guess the thing that I struggle with here as I think about me and then I think about me thinking about other people. We're getting really meta here, is. Yeah, why should somebody follow me and engage with the content that I'm putting out if they have an inkling that this is actually something that I didn't spend that much time on?

[Taran Southern]

These are, these are great philosophical questions. I mean, I could also ask people.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Plato wrote a book on this exact subject.

[Taran Southern]

Yeah, yeah. The whole question of should we Is a whole other interesting philosophical debate. I'm a, I'm a believer that you are bringing your embodied experience into this no matter what, because that's actually what humans connect with.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

So there's.

[Taran Southern]

It's one thing to talk at your audience, it's another to like emotionally connect with them. And that is done through your lived experience. It's your stories, it's your experience and GPT. It's, you know, it's going to be great at researching it might be great at creating insights even, but there's something about the embodiment of that experience in there and your stamp of approval. It's the Jason Pfeiffer verification. You're still choosing to release this, which means that it is, on some level, a reflection of you and your thinking.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

I have a friend he's one of my closest friends from high school. He's an incredible artist. Painter, amazing painter. And in the early part of his career, after college, he spent a couple of years working for famous painters. And what he would do, along with a team, was paint the famous painter's paintings. I did not realize this. I don't know if you knew that, like, a lot of artists don't make their own work.

[Taran Southern]

Correct. It's done in a workshop.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Know that it is done in a workshop. And so my way, for hundreds of.

[Taran Southern]

Years, Jason, hundreds of years that I.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Didn'T know at all. Is that true?

[Taran Southern]

Yeah. Like, Leonardo da Vinci had so many. Whatever they called them back then, of course, I can't remember. But a lot of these painters were. They had these incredibly large workshops.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Teams, Teams.

[Taran Southern]

And so did the best content creators. Now they have script writers, they have editors. It's not solely them going right in the sink. Part of your job as a visionary is to communicate that vision to all of the members of your team. The difference is now AI can basically execute a number of those team tasks as one technology.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Right? But that, really, honestly, that shifts something in me because I hadn't made that connection before thinking about my friend and the painting. Who. People buy these paintings and they must understand if you. If you have the money to buy famous art like artwork, you understand the art world, and therefore you understand that the thing that you're buying wasn't lovingly crafted inch by inch by this famous artist. So you understand that and you're spending the money on it anyway. And so they know that. I didn't realize that people have been doing this for hundreds of years, but of course they have, because as humans, we basically don't change. We use different resources to do the exact same things over and over again. Like, that is. That is the course of human history. So. So I guess in a way, I joked when you called this a philosophical question, but now I guess it actually is a philosophical question. Because the philosophical question is, I guess, what is. I don't even know how to articulate it. What is the output of a person? What is someone's real, true work? And what are we willing to accept as someone's real, true work, knowing that they didn't fully work on it? That is, interestingly, a thing that I think we're grappling with right now, but that also we maybe grappled with hundreds of years ago and then came to some resolution on.

[Taran Southern]

Oh, we've been grappling with it for so long. And not just in art, in technology, the building of apps. You know, good artists copy, great artists steal. Steve Jobs loves that quote. The idea that we're all stealing the best ideas, integrating them with our style, our preferences, and then creating something new. The whole world is just like a giant remix of Magnetics, you know?

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Right.

[Taran Southern]

We're all just meme copying machines. Like, that is what we do as humans. And it does sort of raise the question of, are we that special?

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Yeah, I mean, that I'm comfortable with. The answer to, which is no. Right. The answer is that, no, we're not. We're not all that special. We are all kind of marginally special in some context to certain people. It's basically the best we can ever do. But I'm fine with that. Like, you know, somebody follows me on LinkedIn, I am not the most important person in the world. To them, that would be concerning. Instead, I am marginally special to them. I. I've somehow elevated myself slightly above the noise, such that they're willing to spend a minute or two considering me on some kind of regular cadence. And, you know, for the vast majority of the people that you will ever reach in the world, that's about as good as it gets. And that's okay. I don't think it needs to be more than that.

[Taran Southern]

Well, I think you should do a little experiment, because it seems the most important thing here is what is the impact of your posts? Are people reading it and are they getting value? And the second one is, do you approve of the post? Does it feel like something that you could put your, your stamp on and say, I feel good about this, you know, and then the third part is, is this technology actually allowing me to do more of what I love? And if maybe you look at it in that three part framework, I'd love to know the final score.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

I'll have to figure out how to quantify the answers. All right, well, then, given all that, let us return to the question I asked at the beginning. Am I an asshole for looking down on that marketing guy?

[Taran Southern]

No, because you actually, your own intelligence barometer was taking in the fact that what he produced was not very good. If it was really good, you wouldn't have known that he used AI to begin with. And so whether that says he knows how to, you know, whether it means that someone knows how to use AI really, really well, or that someone is competent, or both of those things, you know, clearly he did. He did not meet any of those three.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Let's, let's say that he was doing good work. So he was doing good work. But some part of me thought, oh, well, if you're using AI, you can't be that good. Maybe you're actually.

[Taran Southern]

Did he tell you he was using AI, or you just could tell?

[Jason Pfeiffer]

No. Well, in this particular case, the work wasn't that good. And then someone who knows him told me that he's basically just using AI. Like, whatever I saw was just some output of ChatGPT. So in that case, he didn't tell me directly. I judged the work as poor, and then I got an explanation for why it was poor. So in that case, I think you have given me license to say, yeah, that guy does bad work, and I think it's bad. But I'm interested. As a kind of final way of thinking about this is let's say that someone does good work or they're outputting good work, which is actually kind of different, right? Or maybe it's not. Maybe philosophically it's not. Maybe doing good work and outputting good work is kind of the same thing. Like, the distinction here I'm making is, like, doing good work is coming from you, and outputting good work is like whatever process you had to create the work. Let's say that they're outputting good work, and then I learn that they're using AI to output that good work. Taryn, a little part of me is still going to think, well, maybe without AI, they're not actually very good at that. Is that fair?

[Taran Southern]

I have to think about it. I really do. Especially my thinking keeps changing on this because AI is improving. ChatGPT4O was light years better than the previous model. And so the better it gets, the harder it is to actually distinguish bad thinking.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

So in other words, someone. Someone's work is very impressive. You see their work and you're like, that is very impressive work, Good work. But then you learn that they use AI a lot in their work. Then what? You might wonder, or at least I'll just own it, what I would wonder is, are they not actually that good at that work? Like, would they absent chatgpt if we rewound the clock just a couple years, would they go from being excellent at their job to just being, like, mediocre at that job? Yeah, that's.

[Taran Southern]

That's totally fair.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

That's what I'm.

[Taran Southern]

I don't think we have any way to know other than people like you and I, or really anyone who's in their 30s or 40s or 50s. If you've been doing this for a while, there is a body of work that, you know, has been untouched by ChatGPT.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Right?

[Taran Southern]

And so on some level, you know, you can kind of rest on your laurels a little bit. You've proven that you can roll up your sleeves and do this without any sort of outside assistance. That might be harder to prove with. With younger people coming in. And then there's also the question of does it actually hurt their learning? Does it hurt their learning to have these tools from the outset, rather than having to go through the painstaking process of making a million mistakes, you know, and learning the kind of slow and hard way.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Right. I thought you were going to say, does it matter? Because I guess it also might not matter. Like, the question that I'm asking might actually just be a deeply irrelevant question, because who cares if they are mediocre without this tool? Because they don't live in a world without this tool anymore. They live in a world with this tool. So I. You know, I guess. I guess part of me now wants to, like, split off and snap back to the other part of me and be like, you know what, Grandpa? Like, it. It doesn't matter. Like, it doesn't matter what you think. And the whole only thing that matters is the work that they put out. And if it's good, then who the hell cares how they got there? Because being good at making marketing in a world with AI is more useful than being good at marketing in a world without AI because we don't live in a world without AI anymore. So who cares? You are clapping. You are clapping.

[Taran Southern]

I think that's right. I think that that's actually right. Now, whether or not that's a good thing for society is a whole other question, but I think that that's right.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

We'll leave that for the next philosophical thing. Okay. All right. Well, Darren, I think you changed my mind a little bit. I think it actually happened if we.

[Taran Southern]

Nudged you just a hair over. That's fantastic.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

You did. You nudged me more than a You nudge me a small tuft of hair over a ponytail. Yes, a ponytail's worth of hair. Terence. Heather, it has been a delight talking to you. Have I been talking to a AI Chatbot the entire time?

[Taran Southern]

Oh, no. It would have been far more articulate. So I only wish my verbal communication style could improve at the same exponential rate as my writing.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Oh, that's the way to know that you're talking to a real person now is that they're just a little worse than the ChatGPT version of themselves. Well, Taran, it's been nice to connect with you, the human you.

[Taran Southern]

So great to connect with you as well. And keep me posted on the Jason Pfeiffer GPT. I want. I want my score.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Oh, my God. I am so excited to do this on a walk. And maybe I'll even treat myself to something better than a toaster waffle. We'll find out. I'll ask ChatGPT what I should have for breakfast. I'm sure it'll have an answer. Help Wanted is a production of Money News Network. Help Wanted is hosted by me, Jason.

[Nicole Lapin]

Pfeiffer, and me, Nicole Lapin. Our executive producer is Morgan Lavoy. You want some help? Email our [e-mail] for the chance to have some of your questions answered on the show. And follow us on Instagramoneynews and TikTokoneyNewsNetwork for exclusive content and to see our beautiful faces. Maybe a little dance?

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Oh, I didn't sign up for that.

[Nicole Lapin]

All right, well, talk to you soon.