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- [00:00]
Nicole Lapin
You know what I'm really over? Fees. Concert ticket fees, cleaning fees on weekend rentals, a processing fee for existing. It is endless. And the worst part? These fees hit hardest when you're already trying to get ahead. Fees are everywhere and they hurt you most when you're down. That's why Chime offers fee free banking, which means no monthly fees, no overdraft fees and no minimum balance fees. I once got hit with a $15 maintenance fee just because my account dipped below the minimum bal for a single day. I wasn't overspending, I was just timing my rent payments around payday. That fee felt like a big penalty just for budgeting. But with Chime, I wouldn't have gotten charged for not being rich yet. No minimum balances, no hidden fees, just breathing room when I actually would have needed it. It is so simple. Banking should not cost you money. And with Chime, it doesn't open your account in two minutes@chime.com Help Wanted Chime feels like progress. Chime is a financial technology company, not a bank. Banking services and debit card provided by the Bancorp Bank NA or Stride Bank NA members, FDIC spot and eligibility requirements and overdraft limits apply. Timing depends on submission of payment file. Fees apply at out of network ATMs, bank ranking and number of ATMs, according to U.S. news and World Report 2023 Chime checking account required. This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. You chose to hit play on this podcast today. Smart Choice. Make another smart choice with Auto Quote Explorer to compare rates from multiple car insurance companies all at once. Try it@progressive.com, progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Not available in all states or situations. Prices vary based on how you buy.
- [01:41]
Jason Pfeiffer
This is Help Wanted, the show that makes your work work for you. I'm Jason Pfeiffer, Editor in Chief of.
- [01:47]
Nicole Lapin
Entrepreneur Magazine, and I'm money expert Nicole Lapin. On Tuesdays, Jason and I answer the helpline and help callers solve their work problems.
- [01:55]
Jason Pfeiffer
And on Thursdays, I give you one way to improve your work and build a career or company you love.
- [02:00]
Nicole Lapin
And it starts now.
- [02:04]
Mike Coscarelli
Hi, my name is Mike and I have a production company and my question today for Nicole and Jason is if you're trying to make money in a content business, is it always smart to splurge for the highest quality product?
- [02:16]
Nicole Lapin
Mike Coscarelli Cos. Spaghetti welcome to Help Wanted.
- [02:22]
Mike Coscarelli
Hello Nicole. Hello Jason. Thank you so much for having me. It's a pleasure to be here.
- [02:26]
Jason Pfeiffer
It's a pleasure to have you. You Are not a stranger.
- [02:28]
Nicole Lapin
He is no stranger.
- [02:29]
Mike Coscarelli
True.
- [02:30]
Nicole Lapin
Yeah, he worked on Money Rehab OG Money Rehab days.
- [02:35]
Jason Pfeiffer
It's like bringing the band back together.
- [02:36]
Mike Coscarelli
I miss you guys. Jason. We only hung out a handful of times.
- [02:40]
Jason Pfeiffer
That's right. When I was a guest on Money Rehab.
- [02:43]
Mike Coscarelli
Yeah.
- [02:44]
Nicole Lapin
And we're so proud of you. Look at you. Cover of Entrepreneur, here we come.
- [02:51]
Mike Coscarelli
Yeah, it's. Well, obviously, once.
- [02:53]
Nicole Lapin
Let's fucking go.
- [02:54]
Mike Coscarelli
You know, we took a little Money Rehab hiatus. We all went in different directions. And here I am with a studio in Brooklyn where me, with the help of a few other people, are trying to get off the ground and turn into a functioning, profitable business.
- [03:08]
Nicole Lapin
Mazel tov. So tell us about the business.
- [03:11]
Mike Coscarelli
Well, we're a production company, but primarily we're a podcast network. So I kind of followed in the same footsteps that you did, Nicole, creating mnn. I have created a brand called Slickback Studios. The brand itself is not officially launched yet, so we're working on some, primarily right now, podcasts that record full service video, full audio, as high as quality as possible. And that's the baseline for the business. We're planning on launching the brand itself probably the first couple weeks of January, when it will be something that we're actually promoting and trying to get people to come listen to. But for now, working on the show is individually. And the long term plan is to do more than just podcasts. We want to do more in the video content space. Everything is content now. So you have to use that word, Jason's favorite. It's really a meaningless word, but totally meaningless.
- [04:05]
Jason Pfeiffer
It turns everything that you do into a widget.
- [04:08]
Mike Coscarelli
Exactly. Yeah. It doesn't have any real meaning in terms of artistic creativity, trying to make anything. But we'll use it for the sake of helping the audience really capture what we're trying to do here.
- [04:20]
Jason Pfeiffer
And Mike, content creation in some form or another comes up quite a lot on this show because Nicole and I are both in the business of content creation, if I can continue to say that phrase without vomiting. But the reason that we were excited to talk about this with you is because this goes far beyond content. If you are listening to this and you are not in the content business, that is totally fine, because you are, in some way or another, still facing the question that you, Mike, are dealing with, which is how much do you invest in the quality of the thing that you do? And how do you even define quality? And I happen to feel like professionals who are trained in any skill may have a detached understanding of what quality is relative to what their consumer thinks quality is. And I think that that can lead to some problems. And so I was excited to talk about this because I think that sometimes, like you listening to this right now, whatever you think good looks like for your job may not be what other people think good looks like for whatever they consume or whatever they want from you or the people who you work with. And you better understand that.
- [05:35]
Nicole Lapin
Do you understand it?
- [05:37]
Mike Coscarelli
Well, so here's the dilemma, because I agree with Jason a thousand percent. And really this was one of the main questions that came up when I was kind of thinking of what the best thing to ask you guys was, because I don't have just one problem as a new business owner. There's a million of them. But this one, I think as somebody that has entered the space that I'm in, fancying himself as sort of like, you know, an auteur, somebody that wants things to be the absolute highest quality and that wanting that to be sort of the brand, the idea that it's like the highest level. I've taken a lot of inspiration outside of that from even just the restaurant business in New York City. And if you watch the bear, that's the constant struggle with, like, that main character. He's constantly trying to, like, do his best, but he's also running a beef shop. So it's this high, low sort of dilemma that really becomes an interesting problem for like. Like somebody that is in any kind of field where there is a. A quality issue and you have to make your product stand out. And I think that's. That's where I'm at. So to answer your question, Nicole, I don't know that. I know that because I get frustrated sometimes in the content business looking at some of the stuff that hits and gets really big. There's a part of me that scoffs at some of it because I'm just like, oh, this is shit, this. And. But it's got a million views or a million downloads, and meanwhile, you can look at what you're making thinking that it's of the highest quality and people aren't necessarily finding it, or it's not exactly what the consumer is used to seeing, but that becomes the issue.
- [07:11]
Nicole Lapin
Yeah, it's like being a, you know, Michelin star, James Beard, la la la chef, like, in line around the block for In N Out.
- [07:21]
Mike Coscarelli
Right, exactly. That is the dilemma.
- [07:25]
Jason Pfeiffer
Mike, before we dig into this, can you give a specific example of something that you have struggled with? Maybe it's deciding whether or not to invest in something that would increase quality as you see it, but then seeing that people want something that is the opposite of that, how is this manifesting in the decisions you're making?
- [07:43]
Mike Coscarelli
The biggest one that I can look to, I think immediately is sound. Obviously, my background, even just working on Money Rehab, I was the sound guy. So for me, I hear things in mixes for podcasts or music or whatever. And to me, it fucks up my ears if it's not a quality that I think is passable, but the way the industry is right now, even having people into the studio to rent it, you know, in my mind, I want the highest quality mics, whatever I think I can justify affording at the highest quality, I want it because for me, it's got to work for my ears. And then people will come in here and they're using the mics, like out here, you know, you start to realize that that is almost of zero importance to some of the people that come in here. But as a person that is trying to create high quality audio, like, how could I live with myself if I just say, like, we got a couple mics, it's fine, fuck it, come on in. And.
- [08:40]
Jason Pfeiffer
Well, because here's why. Because, Mike, you're not in the audio business, you're in the service business. And everybody is, you know, you're not in the hamburger business, you're in the service business, you're not, whatever, it's all the same. And the thing that you need to know is what matters to the people who you serve. And the incredibly frustrating thing is that the thing that matters to them very well may not be the thing that matters to you. I will give you three examples of this example. Number one, I have a friend who runs a Paint and Sip. They're art studios. People come in and they learn how to paint and they bring their own wine. And my friend has an art background. He's an incredible painter. And when he first started this business, he was like, I'm going to teach people the classics. They're going to come in and they're going to do Van Gogh's and they're going to do. And it was tough to fill those classrooms. And then he started offering classes online where people would come in and just paint the crappiest, cheesiest landscapes and paintings of flowers. Just like stuff that makes you want to vomit as an artist. And those rooms filled immediately, which he hated, but that's how he built his business. Number two is I used to be obsessed with magazine making. I'm still in the magazine industry now, but I used to be obsessive over what magazines were doing and how to cram as much on a page as possible and how to work with a designer to make the most elaborate designs and these cool things text all over the place and you got to turn it upside down to read it. And I don't make that for my own magazine anymore because I have one designer, Paul, bless him, who has to design the entire magazine because that's the budget we have. So our pages are pretty simple, which means that I haven't looked at anything but simple pages in a long time. Recently I picked up an issue of Wired, which still designs like that, and I found it impenetrable. I could not read Wired because I couldn't follow anything that was happening on the page, even though I understood exactly why it was designed that way, because it was made by a bunch of people who love making magazines. Example number three, Entrepreneur magazine, which is where I work. So we publish on entrepreneur.com, both stories written by professional writers who sometimes spend months on three and 4,000 word pieces that are lovingly picked over. And then we publish stuff that somebody wrote in five minutes for breaking news or something that a non professional writer, like just an entrepreneur wrote. That's five ways to market your business for free or some whatever, right? And then you look at the traffic and you see that almost always the stuff that was like cranked out or was written by non professional writers does infinitely better than the stuff that was lovingly crafted by professionals. And all of this has given me the rather brutal, but has to be respected understanding that my sense of taste does not match the consumer's sense of taste. And if I want to be in business, then I actually need to understand the consumer's sense of taste and then bring my quality sensibilities to it. But making sure that I remain in the business that I'm in, which is ultimately the service business. As I've been saying this, you've been nodding along because I think I'm saying things that you may know but have had a hard time accepting.
- [12:12]
Mike Coscarelli
That's exactly what it is. The weird thing when you go into these types of businesses where you really put a lot of heart and soul into the creative aspect of what you're doing. That could be basket weaving, podcasting, or cooking, or, you know, woodworking, whatever, you have to almost kill a part of yourself. Unless you're a hit right out of the gate, which, I mean, how often does that happen? It hasn't happened here. But I do think that's the thing that's difficult when you put so much love into the product that you're trying to put out there. It's hard to think of yourself as a business person, I think. And I think this is part of, like, the metamorphosis of taking your business to the next step. If you are a creative person, you have to, like, think more like. Famously, Francis Ford Coppola, the director of the Godfather, was a horrific businessman when it came to anything that he did related to movies and then became a good businessman to the things, like, around his fortune. The weird thing is I relate to that, and I'm trying my hardest to relate more to the people that can compartmentalize and just do good business. And I think that is a part of what I'm struggling with as I get started here.
- [13:24]
Nicole Lapin
You're making this assumption, Jason, and I think it's a good assumption. But I just want to clarify that Mike is optimizing to be successful with the public versus peers, because I think there is a differentiation.
- [13:38]
Mike Coscarelli
It's a little of both. I think when you make stuff, you have a bit of an ego that you know best. And what you're going to put out there is, you know, audience be damned. You just make it, and they love it. You're right, Nicole. It is also peers, because part of the business here is trying to get other people that do what I do to work with me because it's high quality. But there is also that killing of the ego that exists that's like, all right, let me meet these people that consume this halfway, which is tough when you're, you know, a blowhard.
- [14:09]
Jason Pfeiffer
Yeah. My answer to that would be, are your peers paying your bills as if they're not.
- [14:15]
Mike Coscarelli
I will say that as of right now, because we're, again, we're not publicly open for business yet to consumers. The people that are paying the bills are people that will come and rent the studio and use stuff. So I've worked with some production companies that needed a place to do a voiceover, and they'd come to me, and then we'd get their person in here. That's really where the brunt of the business is right now. But, yeah, Jason, like, moving forward, the broader picture is to eventually, you know, get advertisers on the shows that we work on and work directly with. We're trying to be in your business. You know what I mean? This is what the grand plan is.
- [14:50]
Nicole Lapin
Why?
- [14:51]
Mike Coscarelli
Or part of it. Yeah, trust me, I ask myself the same shit every day. It's.
- [14:55]
Jason Pfeiffer
Yeah, that's for another call I'm going to give you a fourth example because as we were talking and make a broader point about it. Stick around. Help Wanted. We'll be right back. Welcome back to Help Wanted. Let's get to it. So I remember years and years ago interviewing a woman named Shira Burke, who is the founder of Goody Girl Cookies, which if you're gluten free, you probably. No, because they're one of the dominant gluten free cookies now, but you can find them anywhere. They're great. And she was telling me that the big hurdle that she ran into when she first launched her business was that like Shira is, if I remember correctly, she has a, like a music PR background or something and she's punk rock. Like she looks cool, she dresses cool, and she wanted to create a brand that has attitude and that was really unique. So the packaging was really fun. And then she was making all these like wacky gluten free cookies that you'd never seen before and they weren't selling. And retailers were starting to say things to her like, can you just make a chocolate chip cookie? You make like a, like an Oreo kind of cookie. And at first she was so offended by this, but also she had to accept the fact that the things that she was making weren't selling. And so then she started making a chocolate chip cookie and an Oreo and, and they started to sell really well. She struggled with that for a long time because it felt like it was ripping away her creativity. She got into this business to be creative, but what she ultimately came to was, look, she's still making the best chocolate chip cookie that she thinks is out there and there's something to be said for that. And her job isn't to come up with weird things for people to eat. Her job is to make people happy. And if the thing that makes them happy is to find a gluten free version of the kind of cookie that they long to eat but can't, then that's success. And it doesn't mean like selling out and it doesn't mean making a poor quality cookie, right? Like, cookie's still really good. It's just not like the wacky thing that she came up with. And I think that like, regardless of what business you're in and to be specific to yours, it's great to know what good looks and sounds like and it's great to be committed to that. And I think that where you might want to adjust is, number one, you're going to have to make decisions about what to invest in and what not to invest in. And you're going to want to ultimately start to optimize for the things that are going to matter the most to the people who are coming in, right? Like if it's between upgrading the microphone in a way that only you will hear, or buying the more comfortable chair and some cookies that they can eat while they're in the studio, maybe the comfortable chair and the cookies is the way to go, because that's going to matter to them. And give yourself a break. Because, you know, you can create an incredible audio product that audio nerds will love, and there will be the opportunity to do that.
- [18:04]
Nicole Lapin
But.
- [18:04]
Jason Pfeiffer
But that doesn't mean it has to be the thing that you always do. And it doesn't mean that you're doing crap when that's not what people want.
- [18:12]
Mike Coscarelli
It's funny that you bring up the cookie thing. Cause I had somebody in here probably two weeks ago, and somebody said something to me about how I should have a fridge in here. And I was like, what the hell are you talking about? Who cares about a fridge? But you're right. Even if it's just the service of having people in here to record, you know, if they really don't know the difference, I guess it's something that I just have to swallow and get the fridge and not worry as much about the microphone or worry about, like, having the highest quality camera in here or whatever.
- [18:44]
Jason Pfeiffer
John Taffer, who hosts this TV show called Bar Rescue, he makes this point that I really like, which is that when he talks to restaurateurs, he says, you are not in the food business. You're in the reaction business. Which is to say, like, if the food doesn't come out and doesn't get a good reaction, if people don't sit up and they're like, mm, that looks delicious. Oh, I can't wait to dive into that, then you have failed. It doesn't matter how good the food tastes. You're in the reaction business. You need to manage people's experience of being there, not just how good the food is. And I think it's a really valuable exercise, like, regardless of what it is that you do, to just ask yourself, like, what business am I really in? And take yourself away from whatever it is, Right? Like, you're not in the business of creating audio. I would say you're in the business of helping people communicate or something like that. What business are you in for right now?
- [19:30]
Mike Coscarelli
I think that's fair. I think that the scaling up hopes are that it's More the entertainment business or the business of making people feel good or pass their time or whatever. But there's times I also feel like if people are just coming in here to use the studio, I think I'm in the ego stroking business at times.
- [19:48]
Nicole Lapin
You are, you know, I mean, all businesses are sure. For sure. And who are your customers? And by the way, it can be split. I mean, I look at our customers as being audience members and also clients. But who are yours?
- [20:03]
Mike Coscarelli
I think Nicole was probably onto something earlier when she said that some of them are peers. Because for right now, the thing that is kind of the only real income for the business as we get started are the people that are coming that are within the entertainment business that need help with a voiceover reel or they want to do their podcast here and do a pilot here. And so that's why when I say the ego stroking business, it is similar to the John Teffer thing. Kafr, my bad. But you want people to come in here and be like, wow, look at the cameras, look at the microphones. This place is like, hot shit. This is the real deal. It is similar to that because as of right now, those are the people that I'm serving directly for the moment. I mean, it's a great point, Jason. I really didn't think of it like that. But when nobody knows the difference anyway, I guess sometimes it is just about having the client get excited over the fact that, like, they see themselves on a screen, they hear their voice in headphones, and it doesn't necessarily have to be, you know, you could maybe save $50 here and there on headphones or the mic or whatever.
- [21:08]
Nicole Lapin
The bigger question is, do you give people what you think they want or what they actually want? And then it's like double clicking on what they actually want and understanding that better, whether you survey them, whether you ask them. I think, like, where it gets tricky and where all businesses and entrepreneurs can get themselves in trouble is when you assume any of those things.
- [21:32]
Jason Pfeiffer
The moment with the fridge is a really instructive one. Right. What that tells you is that there are things that people want that you're not thinking about because you're not thinking of it as service that you provide. So it's worth asking, when people come in to use the space, ask them things like, what would make this better? What other needs do you have that I could fulfill? Companies have these people who are often called audience insights researchers, who basically ask customers versions of these questions. It's like, it's not just like, what do you like, who Cares in a way, right? It's like, what don't you like? What was the thing that stopped you from referring our company to your friend? What are the unfilled needs that you have when you come into the studio? These kinds of questions, which you don't have to ask them in a formal survey, but just kind of slip it into conversation. You'll start to hear things that will shape the way in which you serve your client. I was talking once to the president of Reebok years ago, and he was telling me about how, in his view, you can't compete on quality anymore. And the reason is because quality is so easily achievable, manufacturing is so good now and so readily available that pretty much any company that makes a product can make a good product. If you launch a pair of scissors into the marketplace, you cannot compete with on being the sharpest scissors. Everyone's the sharpest scissors. You can't make a sharper scissors than already exists in the market. So it's got to be something else. You compete on story. You compete on comfort. You compete on culture. You compete on branding. You have to compete on all these other things because, you know, like, Mike, you are very good at what you do. You understand audio very well, but you're not the only person in the world who understands audio. And so if it comes down to, do I go to this studio because they understand audio, or do I go to this other studio because they understand audio and also they have free cookies, which one do you go to?
- [23:40]
Mike Coscarelli
Right?
- [23:40]
Nicole Lapin
I mean, honestly, what is the number one thing people say when they go to interview at Google? It's fucking Google. But what's the number one thing you hear the food.
- [23:50]
Jason Pfeiffer
And I've been to a bunch of the cafeterias. They're amazing.
- [23:51]
Nicole Lapin
It's food. And when I was interviewing in New York between Bloomberg and cnbc, I was.
- [23:56]
Mike Coscarelli
Like, God damn it.
- [23:56]
Nicole Lapin
They have fresh ground peanut butter at Bloomberg. That was the thing I remembered. It costs in the scheme of Bloomberg's business to say it's a rounding error would be, like, so generous. It means nothing in the scheme of their business, but it meant a lot to me. I've talked about that ground peanut butter a lot.
- [24:17]
Mike Coscarelli
So if I take anything away from this, I should get the fridge or peanut butter.
- [24:22]
Nicole Lapin
I think what you take out of it is ask people or Undercover Boss it or have somebody else ask them or do a little due diligence. You guys might not think that in a studio my feet get really cold, but I would love a little foot heater. For instance. And so those little things that you might. You're not the same sex, or you're not the same age, or you're not the same like some other demographic of people. Now, granted, if you're not serving those people, then it doesn't matter for the sake of your business. But if you are, there just might be some blind spots to their actual needs or creature comforts.
- [24:58]
Mike Coscarelli
Yeah, I think you're 100% right. And the starting point of this place was really not all that aesthetically pleasing. We've done a lot to try to dress it up and make it more luxurious looking, even if it's a little bit budget luxury. But that's the other thing too. When I first got in here, I bought furniture that was way too expensive, and I regret it now. I bought a concrete table for $2,000. I was like, I got it, it's fine. I got the money. Don't worry about it.
- [25:24]
Nicole Lapin
Oh, my God.
- [25:25]
Mike Coscarelli
It's a great table, though, Nicole. You gotta see it. I mean, it's like £600.
- [25:29]
Nicole Lapin
I can't even not approved. This idea of whether it's luxury or not is not necessarily the point. It's like it's really trying to differentiate between what you think you want for the business and what the business actually wants, or like the customers the clients actually want. And so, I don't know, like, maybe Anna Wintour is your client and she fucking loves a concrete table. In which case, like, buy all the concrete tables. So, like, looking at it in a vacuum, we don't know what the best investments are, because you're just the barometer. I mean, we'll all be the barometer. Like, I don't think anyone really wants a $2,000 table in the scheme of startup land, but these areas that you might not even realize because you're assuming what's good or not. Like, you're probably so overwhelmed by a thousand decisions that you're making firefighting all day long that you're trying to make the best decision. It's not for lack of wanting to make the best decision or wanting the best for the business, but it's just you're not even putting it in the priorities to ask, which actually should probably be scooted up so you can better make those decisions. Like, I don't know, when I'm in a studio, I'm just looking right now around my studio and I'm getting an extra hook because I have, like, a lot of things that I just throw with all the shirts that I need to change. Like, do you have a hook in your bathroom? I don't know. Or a rack. Or maybe you don't need that. But if I were in your studio, I would want that. And it's a hook. It's $5. It would help me make my life better and more convenient. And you might not realize that because you wear the same shirt. I mean, Jason wears the same shirt all the time. Jason can't taste. I know it's our favorite discussion, but, like, Jason doesn't care about fucking peanut butter, but Jason probably cares about a phone charger or something. I don't know.
- [27:12]
Jason Pfeiffer
Yeah, also, even though I can't taste, I still like peanut butter. I'm going to read you some random thing that I found online that has a slightly different message, but I think applies to this too. Whatever you think you can't do, just know that there is someone who is confidently doing it wrong right now. They have no plans at doing it better either, and people are paying them to do it. Please believe in your own excellence as much as they believe in their mediocrity. All right, here's why I'm reading that to you. How does it apply to this moment? Here's how it applies. Because there are studios that you are going to compete against that are going to be worse than you in every technical way. They will have invested in less technology, they will be less skilled than you, and they will be doing better than you. And you're like, why? That message on Instagram was a kind of self motivational thing. You believe in yourself just fine. But I think that the thing that you're going to have to remember is that sometimes the reason that people win isn't because of what experts think quality is. And so don't let your expertise get in the way of actually serving the people that you're serving. Because other people may win because like Nicole said, there's the peanut butter or there's the feet warmers. But I have learned this for myself in those examples that I shared at the beginning of this episode. And it is something I remind myself of all the time, which is my expertise can also be my weakness and my greatest blind spot. And so I want to be good at things, but what I really want to do is be good at things that people find useful and want to make sure that I'm always building that bridge. And that often means stepping outside of yourself as much as possible. That is not to denigrate quality. I love quality. But people sometimes think that the peanut butter is what creates quality.
- [29:13]
Nicole Lapin
I mean, think about freaking surgeons going to medical school, doing all this schooling stuff. And what do patients comment on the most? These are fucking, like, jokes and personality and bedside manner. Like, how offensive is that? So, look, we're not saving lives. This is not that serious. But, Mike, I will say, pretty amazing audio.
- [29:36]
Jason Pfeiffer
Yeah, you got that? Now just get the fridge. Help Wanted is a production of Money News Network. Help Wanted is hosted by me, Jason.
- [29:45]
Nicole Lapin
Pfeiffer, and me, Nicole Lapin. Our executive producer is Morgan Lavoy. You want some help? It's email our helpline@helpwantedoneynewsnetwork.com for the chance to have some of your questions answered on the show. And follow us on Instagramoneynews and TikTokoneyNewsNetwork for exclusive content and to see our beautiful faces. Maybe a little dance?
- [30:06]
Jason Pfeiffer
Oh, I didn't sign up for that.
- [30:07]
Nicole Lapin
All right, well, talk to you soon.
- [30:17]
Jason Pfeiffer
Sa.