How to Change a Negative Narrative

Summary

---

Help Wanted: "How to Change a Negative Narrative"

Podcast by Money News Network
Air Date: April 8, 2026
Hosts: Jason Feifer (Entrepreneur Magazine Editor-in-Chief) & Nicole Lapin (Money Expert)

---

Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the challenges of managing (and surviving) a negative public narrative when a private moment goes viral—especially at work or in your professional life. Prompted by a recent internet controversy involving a woman on a plane, Jason and Nicole break down what happens when a mundane interaction is broadcast, dissected, and weaponized by social media, affecting someone's reputation and career. The discussion moves from ethics and boundaries to gendered expectations, employer challenges, and practical tips for moving past viral infamy.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Viral Plane Seat Incident (04:54 – 13:45)

• Summary of Events:

  • Viral video shows a woman refusing to give up her assigned plane seat to a toddler, leading to online outrage.

  • The woman is berated by the child’s mother; third party films and uploads the video, causing it to spread rapidly.

  • The woman (a 29-year-old Brazilian bank employee) faces severe online shaming and career fallout, ultimately leaving her job.

    "She came out and said that the viral video led to severe online shaming. It adversely affected her mental health, her career. She said, 'Professionally my life has changed a lot. So much so that today I am no longer in the field I worked in before.'"
    — Nicole Lapin (07:19)

2. Whose Responsibility, Whose Boundaries? (09:12 – 14:43)

• Would You Have Moved?

  • Jason: Would have politely asked for his seat, possibly accommodated, but feels the mom’s expectations and behavior were out of bounds.

  • Nicole: Would likely have moved, but this story made her reconsider her instinct to always acquiesce.

  • Both agree: Setting boundaries is not an offense.

    "Boundaries are not a public offense. So I don't think she did anything wrong. She didn't cuss the mom out...she just sat there in the seat that she paid for."
    — Nicole Lapin (14:17)

• Chaos of Accommodating Toddlers:

  "My God, Colin, who just came in here, the number of times in his life that he has asked me for food and then I made the food and then he didn't want the food. Too many to count."
  — Jason Feifer, about the futility of giving toddlers what they want (14:46)

3. Gender and Social Scripts in Public Outrage (15:34 – 17:19)

• Nicole’s Take:

  • There’s an added expectation for women to be endlessly accommodating, especially with children.

  • Internet often vilifies women for asserting boundaries in public.

    "The public doesn't want boundaries. It wants, you know, characters in this where they can call you selfish or rude or unfriendly or like this child hating lady. Like these women who say no seem to make these perfect Internet villains."
    — Nicole Lapin (16:39)

• Jason’s Reflection:

  • Acknowledges this perspective, noting Jen (his wife) shared the same confusion at the outrage.

4. Snap Judgments & Internet Culture (17:19 – 24:50)

• The Danger of Out-of-Context Clips:

  • Ryan Broderick's point: Viewers of viral clips assume both that they have all the facts and that they can fill in missing gaps—they're often wrong on both counts.

    "The mistake that we all make...is that we assume two things at the same time. Number one is that we have all the information that we need to make a judgment. And that number two is there's something else in this story that isn't being said that we can figure out."
    — Jason Feifer (18:56)

• Fire Story Analogy:

  • Jason shares personal experience with a neighbor’s house fire and notes how even innocent videos are misjudged by online strangers.
  • Takeaway: Always ask, "What don't I know about this situation?"

5. Legal and Moral Implications of Filming Strangers (26:17 – 28:38)

• Lawsuit & Privacy:

  • The subject of the viral video is suing the airline and the filmer for unauthorized public exposure.
  • Jason makes a distinction between legal questions (reasonable expectation of privacy) and the broader moral issue: Should we post videos of strangers online at all?

• Nicole’s View:

  • Complicating the “victim” narrative, notes that the woman has also gained influence and brand deals, leveraging her viral fame.

    "She's also apparently leveraged this unexpected online fame to get 2 million Instagram followers and has secured a few brand deals...decide what you are fighting for and what you want."
    — Nicole Lapin (27:33)

6. Proposed Solutions & Employer Considerations (28:38 – 35:42)

• Jason’s Rule: Only post the action, not people's faces.

  "If you see some crazy thing happening and you want to share it...then just do it in a way in which nobody's face is shown."
  — Jason Feifer (29:17)

• Employer Perspective:

  • Nicole: What should employers do when an applicant's search results are dominated by a viral controversy?

  • Jason: Suggests full transparency—owning your story and extracting actionable lessons or positives from it in job applications.

    "Every bad thing that happens to you is also an insight that you can use and tell your story in a different way."
    — Jason Feifer (33:16)

• Real-World Hiring Example:

  • Jason shares hiring someone once caught up in a plagiarism scandal, emphasizing the human and contextual side of workplace mistakes and redemption.

7. Reclaiming the Narrative (35:26 – 35:57)

• Career Advice:

  • Nicole and Jason agree—the right way to flip a negative narrative is to own the story, learn from it, and turn it into a differentiator.

    "If I was running a crisis comms agency, I would totally hire that woman."
    — Jason Feifer (35:42)

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Internet Villainization:

  "These women who say no seem to make these perfect Internet villains. And watching this pattern has been really messed up."
  — Nicole Lapin (17:12)

• On Snap Judgments:

  "We take these videos, these completely out-of-context snippets of life where the only thing we know is what we see in the video...and we make judgments on it based on what we think we know...If we would ask that, not just of these videos, but of any moment in which we are rushing to judgment, I think that we would all be a lot more understanding."
  — Jason Feifer (24:50)

• On Turning Crisis Into Opportunity:

  "I think that this is a great new role for her. Oh, how to navigate a crisis. If I had handled myself that way..."
  — Nicole Lapin (35:42)

---

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [04:54] — Episode starts, discussion of the viral plane seat story
• [09:12] — Debating whether it's an obligation to move and gender perspectives
• [13:45] — Boundaries are not public offenses, chaos of toddler accommodations
• [15:34] — Gender expectations and public shaming patterns
• [17:19] — Out-of-context judgment; Ryan Broderick’s "Garbage Day" point
• [19:26] — Jason's house fire story and lesson on snap judgment
• [26:14] — Lawsuit against the airline and filmer, reasonable expectation of privacy
• [28:38] — Should we post such videos at all? The influencer dynamic
• [29:17] — Jason proposes ethical filming "rule"
• [32:18] — Employer challenges with viral histories
• [33:16] — Turning negative stories into personal brand assets
• [35:26] — Reclaiming your narrative and unique career moves

---

Key Takeaways

• Don’t rush to judgment over viral clips—you never have the full story.
• Asserting boundaries, especially as a woman, often brings unfair public backlash.
• The modern internet makes privacy a challenge; everyone needs a strategy for recovering from negative narratives.
• If you become "the main character" online, reclaiming your narrative (and even leveraging it vocationally) is crucial.
• Employers should recognize the imperfection of viral stories and seek context before passing judgment.
• Simple social guideline: capture the moment, not the person.

---

Useful for: Anyone worried about cancel culture, navigating workplace reputation, or just wondering how to handle life if you suddenly go viral.

---

Transcript

[Jason Pfeiffer]

I started my business as a sole proprietorship and at the time that made sense. I was just trying to get moving. But looking back I realized if I had known what I know now, I probably would have structured it as an S corp at the start. Instead I had to switch later, which was a pain. And you know that is true of many things. There are small decisions that we would have approached differently if only we had known. But you don't have to learn from your mistakes like I did. You can do it right the first time under the guidance of of today's sponsor, Northwest Registered Agent has been helping small business owners and entrepreneurs launch and grow businesses for nearly 30 years. They are the largest registered agent and LLC service in the US with over 1500 corporate guides who are real people who know your local laws and can help you and your business every step of the way. Northwest gives you access to thousands of free guides, tools and attorney drafted documents to help you run your business with with confidence. No upsells, no selling your data. Northwest makes life easy for business owners. They don't just help you form your business, they give you all the free tools that you need after you form like operating agreements, meeting minutes and thousands of guides that explain all the ins and outs of running a business. Don't pay hundreds or thousands of dollars for what you can get from Northwest for free. Visit northwestregisteredagent.com help wanted free and start using free resources to build something amazing. Get more with Northwest Registered Agent at. Again, here's the website northwestregisteredagent.com helpwanted free

[Indeed Sponsor Voice]

we've had some big wins at my company this year. The kind of wins that mean it's time to expand. Bringing new people onto the team isn't something I take lightly. These people are going to help shape the content that goes out into the world with my brand and my name attached to it. So when I'm hiring, I need to make sure my job listing lands in front of the best possible people. Not just good, the best. Which means this is a job for Indeed. Sponsored Jobs Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Less stress, less time, more results. When you need the right person to cut through the chaos, this is a job for Indeed. Sponsored Jobs and listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit to help get your job the premium status it deserves@ Indeed.com podcast just go to Indeed.com podcast right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Indeed.com podcast terms and cond apply. This isn't your job. This is a job for indeed sponsored jobs.

[Nicole Lapin]

When I was in debt I had my spending plan budgeted to the dollar. Literally. I had overdrafted once buying a coffee and I blew past the 7 bucks I had budgeted because of the 35 overdraft fee. If I had CHIME back then it would have saved me.

[Indeed Sponsor Voice]

But overdraft fees aren't the only fees Chime can help you avoid.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

When you bank with Chime, you are never far from a free atmosphere. That's because they have over 47,000 fee free ATMs in Target, CVS 7 elevens all across the country. That's more than the top three national banks combined. And that's not all Chime does. Chime understands that every dollar counts. So when you set up a direct deposit through chime, you get access to fee free features like free overdraft coverage, getting paid up to two days early with direct deposit, and more.

[Indeed Sponsor Voice]

CHIME is not just smarter banking. It is the most rewarding way to bank. Join the millions who are already banking fee free today. It just takes a few minutes to sign up. Head to chime.comhelpwanted that is chime.com helpwanted

[Chime Sponsor Voice]

Chime is a financial technology company, not a bank. Banking services A secured Chime Visa credit card and MyPaid line of credit provided by the Bancor Bank NA or Stride Bank NA. MyPay eligibility requirements apply and credit limit ranges $20 to $500. Optional services and products may have fees or charges. See chime.com feesinfo advertised annual percentage yield with Chime+status only. Otherwise 1.0.00% APY applies. No min balance required. Chime card on time Payment history may have a positive impact on your credit score. Results may vary. See chime.com for details and applicable terms.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

This is Help Wanted, the show that makes your work work for you.

I'm Jason Pfeiffer, Editor in chief of

[Nicole Lapin]

Entrepreneur Magazine, and I'm money expert Nicole Lapin. On Tuesdays, Jason and I answer the helpline and help callers solve their work problems.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

And on Thursdays, I give you one way to improve your work and build a career or company you love.

[Nicole Lapin]

And it starts now. I don't know why this was the story that I felt like we should talk about this. I was reading and and I saw it and it's like kind of help wanted. Y It's not on the nose, but I thought you would have feelings about this.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

I did. I had feelings about It. And I wasn't sure how talking this was until I showed it to Jen, my wife, and she really had feelings about it and then we got into it. So let's, let's set this up. All right. Maybe you listeners saw this on the Internet. There's a woman who just random woman who is boarding a flight and as she gets to her window seat, there is a toddler in the window seat. And I guess she asks the toddler to move and get out of her seat. But nicely. There's no aggressiveness, just like what you would normally do. If you show up at your seat and there's like a kid in it, you're like, oh hey, that's my seat. And. And the toddler would not move. And I. We don't know exactly what happened, but by the time the video that went viral picks up, the woman is sitting in her seat and she's got her AirPods on and she's listening to music or something and the toddler is kind of freaking out. And the mom of the toddler, they all seem to be in the row. I think they all seem to be in the same row. So it's like window seat is this woman and then middle seat and aisle seat are occupied by toddler and mom. And the mom is just berating this woman for not having given up her seat for her child. And then the person in the row behind her starts filming this and puts it on the Internet. And the Internet does the thing that the Internet does, which is explode in rage at the woman who wouldn't give up her seat for a random toddler who wanted to sit there. Have I summarized this correctly?

[Nicole Lapin]

Yeah. Well, and then it exploded by people videotaping her. It went on when I think on in your hometown. LinkedIn. Yeah, it was like all over the place.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

It's all everywhere.

[Nicole Lapin]

And she, it affected her employment, bank

[Jason Pfeiffer]

or something and now she's not there.

[Nicole Lapin]

Yeah, she was a Brazilian bank employee, 29 years old. And she came out and said that the viral video led to severe online shaming. It adversely affected her mental health, her career. She said, quote, professionally my life has changed a lot. So much so that today I am no longer in the field I worked in before I was a banker. Not sure you know what happened with that departure from banking. Like was it because of this backlash? Was she compelled to leave the position? Did they let her go?

[Jason Pfeiffer]

But it just a lot unknown here.

[Nicole Lapin]

Yeah.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

And just to be super clear before we dig into this, the. The 29 year old woman who did not Give up her seat appears to have made no, like, nothing she did was ill intended. She didn't yell at the toddler, she didn't abuse the toddler. And in the video that went viral, she's just sitting there getting berated by the mom. Like, she doesn't, she doesn't say anything mean or rude. She kind of does nothing. She's just kind of sitting there and then she realizes that she's being filmed. And so she seems a little spooked about that, but otherwise she does nothing. Okay, I have thoughts, but first.

[Nicole Lapin]

Yeah, like that I think there's two parts of this, right. So, like, would you have done what she did first? Second, like, what do we think about this new culture that anyone pulls out a phone, videotapes something, puts it online, it affects your livelihood.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Yeah.

[Nicole Lapin]

It affects your life forever because somebody's going to, you know, then search you, and this thing is going to come up.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Right. Okay, let's take those in order. Well, wait, before, before we even take those in order. What, what did you see that you said, like, oh, we got to talk about this on the show. Like, what jumped out at you as the issues to discuss? Was it those? Like, would you do that?

[Nicole Lapin]

And yeah, well, I think, you know, you are super outspoken about your dad life and you fly a lot. And I, you know, I. We've all been in this situation where somebody asks you to move to like sit next to their significant other or, you know, whatever. And is it an obligation to do that?

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well, first of all, not directly answering the question, but just related thought which you will now appreciate as you travel. Which is the greatest sound. Once you're a parent, the greatest sound you can hear on an airplane is a crying child who is not your child. When I hear a crying child who is not my child, I'm like, that. I am. I don't feel I am sorry for that parent. I'm just so happy it's not me. So.

[Nicole Lapin]

Yeah, because we were supposed to fly with my daughter and now measles is a thing. So we're not. But honestly, I'm relieved.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Yeah. Yeah, it's. It's terrible. Well, fly now because the worst is one year to two and a half years old. That is the worst time to fly because that's when they're. They're the non stop movement. They just want to be moving constantly, but they're totally incoherent, so they just want to, like, walk up and down the aisle. They just want to grab everything and it's oh, God, it's awful. After that, at least they could watch a video. But okay, back. Back to. Back to not ranting about parenthood. Okay, so first of all, I would have done exactly what that woman did. I would have arrived and I would be like, oh, hey, child, you are in my seat. Can I sit down? That's what I would have done. And I mean, I guess so then what would have happened? What if the mom said, wait, I'm sorry. Speaking of children, Colin has walked in here. Colin, I'm in the middle of recording something. Can I get back to you later? Colin has a notebook and a handful of ink that surely does not bode well for a wall or a piece of furniture somewhere. Colin. What? What. What are you doing?

[Nicole Lapin]

How do you spell your name?

[Jason Pfeiffer]

How do I spell my name? J, J, A, S, O, N, J. Colin, do you have anything to say on microphone about being a force of interruption right now?

[Nicole Lapin]

I'm interrupting because I'm official, because I officially passed the police force.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Oh, okay, great.

[Nicole Lapin]

The what?

[Jason Pfeiffer]

He's saying that he inter. Okay, thank you. Okay, goodbye. He's saying that he interrupted because he officially joined the police force. Is that what you said?

[Nicole Lapin]

Yes. And I. And I finished the police account.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Oh, and he finished the police academy. Well, what I would have done to the child is what I just did with Colin, actually, which is that I would have engaged nicely, but I also would have driven towards the outcome I desire, which in this case was, leave me alone, I've got a podcast to record. And there would have been like, let me sit in the seat. Now, I suppose if the kid threw like a, like a fit or the, you know, like, or something and just really wanted to sit in the window seat. I don't. I don't really care where I sit. And so, you know, I might have turned to the mom and just be like, you want me to just sit in the aisle seat? Like, whatever. It wouldn't have really mattered to me. But I certainly. And we don't know what the woman in this video did. We don't know, like, what. What kind of conflict there was before she sat down. But I think that there is absolutely nothing wrong with, with going about your adult life despite that a small child has asked for something. I think you are nice to the child, you engage with the child, but that doesn't mean that children get everything that they want. And there was no reason, as far as I'm concerned, for this woman to have given up her seat. Jen, my wife and I both felt we watched the Video and we read the stories and we could not understand why the Internet was upset at the woman who took her seat. I am upset at the mom who is yelling at that woman. That is completely unreasonable. And I would never ever expect that somebody would change seats for my child. It's my responsibility to teach my children that they don't get everything they want, including from strangers who they just plopped out in their seats. Seat and that are making demands of. That's outrageous. So I am pro woman sitting down in her seat. I am against that mom. That is my story. Tell me if I'm.

[Nicole Lapin]

No, I think you're. You're right. I think this is a really bizarre thing that we've found ourselves in. And, you know, now the Internet gets outraged and, and comes after people and roasts these people. Because this has happened a few other times with like, transportation related issues. I probably would have just moved. But this story made me think like, maybe I, I shouldn't. Maybe if there was a reason that I needed to curl up next to the window and sleep and that was, you know, helpful for my job or whatever, drawing that boundary, like, it makes her somebody with boundaries. And boundaries are not a public offense. So I don't think she did anything wrong. She didn't cuss the mom out. She didn't, you know, get upset. She didn't recline her seat into somebody's lap. Like, you know, she wasn't vengeful. She just sat there in the seat that she paid for.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

And also. Yeah, but do you know what a recipe for total chaos is? A recipe for total chaos is making lots of changes because a toddler asked you to. If anybody has ever encountered a toddler, or rather raised a toddler, if anyone has ever raised a toddler, what they know is that the thing a toddler wants one second is the opposite of what they want the next second. Right. My God, Colin, who just came in here, the number of times in his life that he has asked me for food and then I made the food and then I gave him the food, and then he didn't want the food. Too many to count. Drives me crazy. The amount of food that has been wasted because he said, can I have an omelet? And then I make an omelet and then he doesn't want an omelet. So if this is the standard that we're holding ourselves by, which is like we do whatever toddlers ask, we, we are, we are in for a ride. And that is not a good situation.

[Nicole Lapin]

So I actually think this is different because she is a woman. And I'll explain. That's why I was really curious to hear what Jen had to say too, because I think that we've created this new social script where, you know, a woman is expected particularly to be endlessly accommodating, especially when it comes to kids. And so, you know, in this situation we've seen like, God forbid she, you know, values her own space. We're going to roast her online. But if you're a woman on a plane, like, apparently there's more of a sense that the second a baby cries near you, you need to become Mary Poppins. And this is not, you know, a one off situation. There was this train seat saga where a woman refused to give up her reserved train seat to a man who wanted to sit next to his girlfriend. And then the Internet roasted her because she wanted to stay in own seat. You know, there was another mom who tried to shame a fellow passenger for not moving her luggage to make room for her baby gear. It turns out that the Internet, after the Internet dragged her. That selfish passenger actually had medical, like a medical device in that bag. And that's why. So, like, we don't even know all of the, you know, ins and outs of the story. To me, it seems like the pattern is clear. Like the public doesn't want boundaries. It wants, you know, characters in this where they can call you selfish or rude or unfriendly or like this child hating lady. Like these women who say no seem to make these perfect Internet villains.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Yeah.

[Nicole Lapin]

And watching this pattern has been really messed up.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

So great, great point that I would not have frankly considered, which was that there's a gender thing here. But yeah, Jen felt exactly the same way as I am articulated. Like she just couldn't understand. Like the thing she kept saying was like, I don't understand why this is an issue. Like, I don't understand why this video went viral. I don't understand why anyone's mad at this woman. But I think you're, you're right. And the, you know, the problem with the whipping out your phone and filming this moment is captured in that issue that you just said with the woman with the bag that turned out to have medical equipment in it. Ryan Broderick, who writes this newsletter that I love called Garbage Day, made this really wonderful point once that the mistake that we all make when we see a little clip of something online is that we assume two things at the same time. Number one is that we have all the information that we need to make a judgment. And that number two is there's something else in this story that isn't being said that we can figure out. So. Right. So like in this case, you see this little clip of this woman sitting there, and we say, well, that's all I need to know. This woman was. Was being disrespectful to this child and doesn't care about kids and moms. And also, there's something else that I know about it, which is that this woman is selfish and is like this cat lady.

Right?

Yeah. And. And we don't. You don't know anything. Like, you.

[Nicole Lapin]

You know.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

You know what would be amazing, actually? Well, here's a. Here's. Here's a appropriately or not appropriately, I suppose, which is a anecdote that is related to a house fire that is not your house fire. But. Too soon. Maybe too soon, but I don't know. I'm gonna go for it anyway. And then you tell me. Stick around. Help Wanted.

We'll be right back.

Welcome back to Help Wanted. Let's get to it. So about a year ago. Have I told you this story? About a year ago. Won't remember. I. Well, then neither will our listeners. I was at work in my office, my home office, and Jan, my wife, she's like, there's a fire. I'm calling 91 1. And I was like, there's a fire. And I ran upstairs where she's looking out the window. And so just picture it, that we live on. We live on a Brooklyn street, and we live in a. It's like a standalone house. And if you look in the back of our house, you just see the house behind us, right? Like, it's just one of these tight urban cores. And so in the house behind us, on the street behind us, two houses down, so like three houses away from us is a house that is on fire. And. And so Jen spotted this super early, and she called 911 and she's got 911 on the phone and she doesn't know the address of the house to. To tell them. So she's like, run over to that house and find the address of the house. So I run over to the house and I find the address of the house and I call Jen point. It doesn't matter because someone else had called 911 and the fire department is just showing up. And so. So I now, to show my family, I film the very, very beginning of this, which is the fire. Firefighters, the very first firefighters are running to the house. Like, it is incredible to see these people like they don't know what's going on. They just showed up. They're running into the house, and, like, some of them get. Some of them, like, start with a hose, and some of them are running into the house, and. And I filmed this for, like, a minute, and, you know, I kind of pan up to see the smoke, and. And then I stand there for another minute. I watch them, and then I. And then Jen calls, and she's like, you should get into the back of our house with a hose in case the fire, like, comes towards us. And I said, that's a good idea. So then I run home, and that's what I do. So now I'm standing out there with a hose, and. And while I'm standing there and watching these, what ultimately happened was two fire. Two houses were burned. I. I tweet that video, and I tweet the video, and I just say, you know, the fire near my home in Brooklyn, very scary. That's it. And people respond appropriately. And then there's one guy who does not, and that one guy says something to the effect of Those firefighters are disorganized and. And, like, not up to the task. And this is why things burn or something. Something crazy like that. And, yeah, it was crazy, but, you know, that's the thing, is if you put something on the Internet, like, somebody will find a way to be upset by it. So, anyway, I saw that, and I was really angry at that tweet. And I know that people say dumb stuff, but, like, I am currently watching these houses burn, and I'm watching my neighborhood get full of more and more and more firefighters. And they were like. I mean, it was an incredible response, right? Like, they swarmed the area and they saved the block. This fire would have spread across the whole block. My house would have been destroyed. And I thought about it later, and I thought, what would have happened if this guy who saw that video asked himself a simple question? And that simple question was, what don't I know about this situation? Because if he had asked, what don't I know about this situation? There were a lot of answers. I don't know how long this fire has been burning. I don't know if those were the first firefighters on the scene or if they've been there for an hour or two. I don't know anything about this neighborhood or what. How close other houses are. I. You know, like, there's so many things that you don't know, and as soon as you recognize all the things that you don't know, it becomes Preposterous to say something like that. Because the thing was that those firefighters weren't disorganized as he was saying it. They were the first guys on the scene and they were just dusting it out. They didn't know how dangerous the situation. They didn't know anything. And. And they were figuring it out. And to make an assessment that, like, this was the fire response. Like, if that was it three hours later, it was like, you know, guys weren't sure what was going on. Well, then I guess. But like, that's not what you saw and you didn't know and.

[Nicole Lapin]

Sit down, Chad. Like, yeah, yeah.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

You go to a fire. That's right. When's the last time you fought a fire? Right. So anyway, the point of this whole story is, is, like, we take these videos, these little completely out of context snippets of life where the only thing we know is what we see in the video. Absent whatever came before, absent whatever came after, absent whatever is happening out of frame, and we make judgments on it based on what we think we know. Because we are not asking ourselves, what do we not know in this situation? And if we would ask that, not just of these videos, but of any moment in which we are rushing to judgment, I think that we would all be a lot more understanding.

[Nicole Lapin]

Amen. I think it might have been a little too soon for the fire story, but it's.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Sorry.

[Nicole Lapin]

It's fine. The one I had, it was also. It's amazing to me, like, how many fire analogies we use all the time. I just find myself like, wow. It's another, like, fire illusion of some sort. Like, get in the fire.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Right, right.

[Nicole Lapin]

You know, whatever. Digress. Yes. What do we not know? So many things. Like, we don't know if this woman, Jennifer, had some sort of, you know, health issue where she had to sit by what? I don't know, like, it doesn't matter.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

It doesn't matter.

[Nicole Lapin]

A thousand things in these types of stories that we don't see from little snippets. And I can say now, as a mother, I would do the same thing that you would. Although, like, I don't. You know, I do think that there's an underlying perception that might be different. Like if you were in this video versus this younger woman.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Yeah.

[Nicole Lapin]

I don't know if the Internet would be so, so, so upset.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Yeah. But I think there's a chance of that.

[Nicole Lapin]

And then also, like, the mom shame thing, like, the. The woman on woman stuff is a little bit weird because I'm just imagining If I were in this window seat and then I told her, like, get your kid under control, then that's like a whole other thing. You can't tell.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Yeah.

[Nicole Lapin]

A mom to have a parent that's.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

You definitely cannot. Which she. Which she did not do. So there's. There's like one other element here, which is that the woman, the woman in the seat, the woman who lost her job and all sorts of crazy stuff, sued. She sued the airline, and she sued the person who filmed the video, who I think was the mom, although it's a little unclear who filmed it, I

[Nicole Lapin]

think it wasn't the mom.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Oh, was it somebody else?

[Nicole Lapin]

Yeah.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

All right. Well, whoever was.

[Nicole Lapin]

I think. So she wants. Yeah, she wants compensation to basically, like, set a precedent against public shaming and unauthorized exposure, she says.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

And. And now there's a. Like, there's a legal way of assessing this, which is. Which comes down to this phrase called. Called. Which comes down to this phrase called reasonable expectation of privacy, which is, you know, it's basically like, if you're in public, how much do you have a reasonable expectation of privacy? I don't know. Interesting question. An airplane is a public space, but it's sort of like a semi public space. Whatever. It's. To me, that's beside the point. It's more interesting to just ask, from a kind of moral perspective, do we. I think we. We all agree we don't want people whipping out their phones, like, posting random clips of people on the Internet. Do we want the countersuits as well? Is this a solution to this problem? Does this just make this worse? How did you feel about that?

[Nicole Lapin]

I think that the question is, like, what is the lost value of her career? Like, what are her damages of this public shaming? The only reason that I'm. I'm more against it than I would have normally been is that she's also apparently leveraged this unexpected online fame to get 2 million Instagram followers and has secured a few brand deals. I guess as an influencer, she's transitioning to, you know, coming out against this public shaming thing in a very public way. So I think the interplay between personal privacy, public exposure, professional life in the digital space is a little bit. It feels a little off to me. It's kind of like the, you know, the. The Meghan Markle and Prince Harry wanted so much privacy, you know, on their multiple Netflix shows. Right. So I think that, like, decide what you are fighting for and what you want.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Although in that case, I feel like she's. She's. Playing the hand that was dealt her. You know, like, she. She wasn't looking for this, presumably, and. And yet it happened. And, you know, if I were her, I would look at the situation. I'd say, well, what do I. What do I have now? I have a lot of people yelling at me online, but I probably also have a lot of people who like me. And now I got a lot of Instagram followers. And I think there's a way to make money off of that. You know, I don't begrudge for that. Right. No, you try to. Try to take the good with the bad. All right, finally, I will offer a rule, a proposed rule, a middle ground culturally and social media ishly. And you can tell me if this is a fine rule or not. The rule is this. If you see some crazy thing happening and you want to share it and you want to film it, then just do it in a way in which nobody's face is shown. Like, that feels. Because, like. So I was on an airplane a couple weeks ago, and. And there was a dude with long black hair sitting directly sitting in the seat in front of me. And he kept, like. He kept, like, running his hands through his hair and then his hair. He wasn't aware of this clearly, but his hair would then be draped over the back of his seat. So it was, like, in front of me, like, in front of the screen that would be in front of me. So I had to look at his gross hair and. And like, I didn't like this, but the only. The only good that I could draw out of this, because I certainly wasn't going to tap him on the shoulder and be like, excuse me, sir, your hair. I guess I could have done that, but I didn't. Instead, what I did was I took a photo of the hair in the seat and I posted it to Instagram. And I was like, well, this is disgusting. And, you know, I enjoyed the responses that I got. Now, this would follow my rule because he is not identified at all. There's no way that any repercussion comes to this guy. All we see is his hair. And I feel like that's a fine middle ground. Like, capture the thing in the moment. Capture the thing that you're seeing. Just put nobody else in harm's way. What do you think?

[Nicole Lapin]

I like it. Unless it's Fabio and then it's recognizable. But also, the one other thing that I wanted to. That. That struck me when I was reading this was from an employer standpoint. So if you are. If this woman is Going to get another job and you Google her. That's going to be the majority of stuff. Oh yeah, that it's gonna be the majority of stuff that comes up, you know, and I've seen some stories where people have had to change their names because of this type of thing. I was just thinking like from an employer standpoint, if Jennifer applies for a job at Eminence and I search Jennifer and I see this, I personally would probably dig beneath because I know media things and how, how warped it can be. But I'm just wondering, do you look past this? Like, I have a friend from media. She was in, she was a news anchor in I think Philadelphia. Like super highly paid. She got into a fight with a cop. It was like a whole, big page six news story. And I thought she was never going to work again. I thought like, because also, you know, a sort of public facing job. She ends up being an anchor in Los Angeles. I always wondered like what the news director or what the employer in that situation does if they look up the story and the, the whole Google search is some crazy incident.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

So I, I have some experience with this. Not a lot, but actually some. Number one, from the perspective of the person to whom this happens, I would say that at least for some amount of time, this now has to be part of the story that you tell up front. So if you're going to reach out for another job in your cover letter or your first interview or something, I think you just have to, you just have to acknowledge it. You know, like if you look me up, you are going to see this viral news story where I was sitting on an airplane and this kid asked me to change seats and I didn't understand that that was very important to him. And then somebody yelled at me and filmed it and it became a whole thing. And I just, I'm very happy to talk to you about it. What I want you to know is that not only am I not a monster, but I also learned something really interesting about that experience that I could bring to bear at your company, which is blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, where

[Nicole Lapin]

like whatever happens don't rule the world.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

So yeah, or, or here's how to, here's how to stay cool under pressure. Like, I, I understand how the Internet works now and I, whatever it is, like there's, there's always like every bad thing that happens to you is, is also an insight that you can use and tell your story in a different way. But I, I did at a previous job, I, we got an application by a guy Who. I don't know if you remember this, but in the 10, 15 years ago, when. When aggregation, like news sites started to aggregate heavily, which, for people who don't know what that means, basically, like news sites, all news sites, every publication, they would hire a team of very young journalists whose job was to just see what was what stories were trending online and then as fast as possible, write their own versions of these stories. So. And the idea was just to, like, chase traffic. And then a bunch of these reporters and a bunch of these young journalists then would have these explosive situations where somebody would discover that they've been plagiarizing and. And. And. And then it would ruin their careers. You know, this person is plagiarizing for the Washington Post. This person is plagiarizing for the Atlantic. And, you know, I saw those stories, and I always felt bad for these kids because they're being put in an impossible situation. They're basically asked to write, like, 10 stories a day. They have no resources. Nobody is overseeing them, and they're moving so fast. And frankly, their job is to not do original work. Their job is to be copying and pasting stories and then just, like, rewriting them. Why? For this? Because that, you know, sometimes they just, like, accidentally let some of the original language from the Associated Press story slip in when they wrote their Washington Post story. And should they have not done that? Yeah, but, like, also, they're given no resources, and what they're being asked to do is ridiculous and impossible. And so anyway, one of those people who had a. It was like a whole big thing. There were all sorts of stories and applied for a job at a magazine that I was working at. And we had a conversation about it internally. And I said, I think that this candidate looks very qualified, and I think that this thing that happened to them was unfair, and it's worth talking to them. And, you know, they were great, and we hired them, and they were great. We should be looking past these little moments where we don't know everything.

[Nicole Lapin]

Okay, Jennifer Castro, you want to come run crisis comms for us? I think that this is a great new role for her. Oh, how to navigate a crisis. If I had myself that way.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Jennifer Castro, listen up. You just got the greatest career tip. If I was running a crisis comms agency, I would totally hire that woman.

[Nicole Lapin]

Yeah, you want someone who's been in the fire

[Jason Pfeiffer]

that. Too soon, Nicole. Too soon Soon. Help Wanted is a production of Money News Network. Help Wanted is hosted by me, Jason

[Nicole Lapin]

Pfeiffer, and me, Nicole Lapin. Our executive producer is Morgan Lavoy. If you want some help, email our [e-mail] for the chance to have some of your questions answered on the show. And follow us on Instagram @moneynews and TikTok Onyx News Network for exclusive content and to see our beautiful faces. Maybe a little dance?

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Oh, I didn't sign up for that.

[Nicole Lapin]

All right, well, talk to you soon.