Help Wanted – "How to Fix Someone Else’s Process"

Money News Network
September 2, 2025

Hosts: Jason Feifer (Entrepreneur Magazine Editor in Chief) & Nicole Lapin (Money Expert)
Producer/Guest/Callee: Morgan Lavoy

Episode Overview

In this episode, producer Morgan Lavoy brings a work challenge to hosts Jason Feifer and Nicole Lapin: How should you handle partners or teammates who get lost in micromanaging processes and granular details, often at the expense of big-picture goals? The team dissects why "process-obsessed" behavior happens and offers practical strategies to address it, emphasizing the importance of trust, clarity of purpose, and honest communication.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Caller’s Frustration with Partner Process Micromanagement

• (00:28–04:01) Morgan describes recurring meetings with a "lovely partner" that devolve into exhaustive, unnecessary discussions about minute processes, like the exact emailing protocol or file storage platform, rather than focusing on outcomes or goals.
• Quote [03:14] Morgan: “I’m on these calls with these people being like, should we use Dropbox or Google Drive for this type of file? And I’m like, oh my God.”

2. Is This Just the Way Business Works? Or Is It a Problem?

• (04:01–05:12) Morgan asks, “Am I the asshole?” questioning whether she’s being unreasonable or if all businesses operate with this level of process detail.
• Jason and Nicole both affirm Morgan’s perspective, coining the term “process assholes” for such partners.
• Quote [05:06] Jason: “They are the process assholes. Maybe that’s just—they’re the process assholes and it’s gotta stop. I have no tolerance for it.”

3. Why Does Process Micromanagement Happen?

• (05:32–09:29) Jason theorizes:
  • Over-detailed people misunderstand what produces good work; they “control the inputs” because they don’t understand “what creates a good output.”
  • There’s job justification and a drive to show one’s value by nitpicking details.
  • Quote [06:44] Jason: “If you work with someone and they get really granular about how things are supposed to happen… I think these are people who simply do not understand what creates a good output.”
• Comparison to people who get obsessed with the right podcasting microphone rather than the message.

4. The Psychological Roots: Control, Stress, and Organizational Fear

• (12:29–13:26) Morgan notes that granular processes seem to give her partner a sense of control in a fast-changing industry, as well as calm for some team members—though it has the opposite effect for her.

  • Quote [13:18] Morgan: “…some of the people on the team are prone to some feelings of stress and feeling like everything—there’s no unknowns—is giving them a sense of calm.”

• (23:57–26:50) Jason draws on examples from magazine publishing, where layers of unnecessary process exist out of fear, a lack of trust, and poor communication.

5. How Should You Address It?

A. Approach 1: Set Meeting Boundaries

(09:39–10:15) Morgan’s initial idea: pre-set hard time limits and clear agendas to avoid the minutiae.

• Jason: This only removes you from the unhelpful process but doesn’t solve the root problem.

B. Approach 2: Address the Underlying Need

(13:26–17:41) Jason recommends a negotiation-inspired approach:

• Try to surface the real concern behind the behavior using open questions:

  • “It seems like there’s a reason you’re saying that.” (Chris Voss technique)
  • “What is it about this… that you’re trying to understand?”

• Ask partners to articulate the reason for their process fixation.

  • Quote [16:36] Jason: “It seems like there’s a reason you’re saying that.”

C. Approach 3: Align on Outcomes, Not Inputs

• Nicole: Reframe conversations around key performance indicators (KPIs) and goals, and encourage partners to connect the process details back to tangible outcomes.
  • Quote [18:31] Nicole: “I think reframing that around KPIs… We want the best outcomes. We want to reverse engineer from the goals. Why is this important to you and letting them explain that?”

D. Recognize the Real Problems: Trust and Communication

(26:50–28:04)

• Morgan notes healthy teams rely on inherent trust, not micromanagement.
• Nicole observes that excessive process often compensates for a lack of trust or communication higher up.

Memorable Quotes & Moments

• Process Assholes (05:06, Jason): “They are the process assholes…and it’s gotta stop.”
• Micromanagement Analogy (06:44–07:02, Jason): “That’s not what makes the thing good… That’s my hypothesis.”
• Control and Calm (13:18, Morgan): “Some of the people on the team are prone to some feelings of stress and feeling like… there’s no unknowns is giving them a sense of calm.”
• Chris Voss Technique (16:36, Jason): “It seems like there’s a reason you’re saying that.”
• Trust as Antidote (27:17, Nicole): “…the positive analysis of a lack of granular process is trust. And maybe they’re reporting to somebody who doesn’t trust them as much as we trust each other.”

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:28–04:01: Morgan details the process micromanagement problem.
• 05:06: Jason names the behavior “process assholes.”
• 06:44–07:02: Jason explains why people obsess over inputs.
• 09:39–10:15: Morgan’s first solution: Meeting boundaries.
• 13:18: Morgan discusses anxiety and the illusion of control.
• 16:36: Jason introduces the “Chris Voss” phrase for surfacing real issues.
• 18:31: Nicole encourages outcome-based reframing.
• 23:57–26:50: Jason’s story of magazine editing and organizational fear.
• 27:17: Nicole on trust vs. granularity.

Actionable Takeaways

• Don’t internalize others’ process obsession as your fault.
• Surface underlying fears or needs by asking open-ended questions (“It seems like there’s a reason you’re saying that…”).
• Try to connect all process discussions back to measurable goals and outcomes.
• Recognize when process spirals are really about trust (or lack thereof) and organizational communication gaps.
• When encountering a dead end, set meeting boundaries—and if all else fails, “blame it on Nicole!”

Tone & Style

The episode is conversational, empathetic, and laced with humor ("process assholes," gentle ribbing, relatable analogies). The hosts maintain a supportive, constructive tone, balancing honest critique with actionable wisdom.