How to Get People to Want to Help You

Summary

Podcast Summary: Help Wanted - "How to Get People to Want to Help You"

Release Date: July 29, 2025

Hosted by:
Jason Pfeiffer, Editor-in-Chief of Entrepreneur Magazine
Nicole Lapin, Money Expert

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1. Introduction

In this episode of Help Wanted, hosted by Jason Pfeiffer and Nicole Lapin of the Money News Network, the duo delves into the nuanced art of seeking assistance without crossing the line into annoyance. Titled "How to Get People to Want to Help You," the discussion centers around understanding effective persistence versus counterproductive persistence when reaching out for help in professional settings.

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2. The Story: Excessive Persistence

The conversation kicks off with Jason sharing a personal experience that highlights the fine line between being persistent and being overly insistent. He narrates receiving multiple urgent emails and a personal call from a representative named John Eddie, who was eager to update an article about his company.

Jason Pfeiffer [02:03]: “I received three emails in the last 24 hours and a call to my personal cell phone...”

This scenario sets the stage for exploring how excessive follow-ups can not only be ineffective but also strain professional relationships.

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3. Defining Persistence vs. Annoyance

Jason and Nicole dissect the spectrum of persistence, contrasting aggressive follow-ups with respectful reminders. They agree that while persistence can open doors and create opportunities, overstepping can lead to resistance and disengagement.

Nicole Lapin [04:40]: “One side of the spectrum is three urgent emails in 24 hours plus a breathless call...”

Jason Pfeiffer [05:15]: “You should unpack that a little bit more later.”

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4. Psychological Insights: Reactance

A significant portion of the episode is devoted to understanding reactance, a psychological response where individuals resist actions that threaten their sense of autonomy.

Jason Pfeiffer [16:26]: “Reactance is an unpleasant motivational arousal that emerges when people experience a threat to or loss of their free behaviors.”

They discuss how feeling coerced can lead to pushback, making individuals less likely to comply with requests—even if initially, they might have been willing to help.

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5. Learning from Thailand's Anti-Smoking Campaign

To illustrate overcoming reactance, Jason recounts Thailand's innovative anti-smoking campaign. Instead of traditional reprimands, the campaign featured children confronting smokers, prompting adults to reflect on their actions without feeling dictated to.

Jason Pfeiffer [17:31]: “The campaign helped people recognize the gap between their beliefs and their actions, encouraging them to make their own choices.”

This approach successfully reduced smoking rates by fostering self-awareness rather than imposing restrictions.

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6. Strategies for Productive Persistence

Drawing from both the initial story and the Thailand example, Jason and Nicole outline actionable strategies to seek help effectively:

• Provide Context: Clearly explain why assistance is needed and the urgency behind the request.

  Jason Pfeiffer [26:26]: “He didn't explain any of that. He just told me what he needs and some context so that I can understand what this request is and why it is important.”

• Humanize the Request: Share personal or organizational stakes to create empathy.

• Limit Follow-Ups: One friendly reminder is beneficial, but multiple urgent communications can be counterproductive.

  Nicole Lapin [28:12]: “I think it's the third email that's without any response from the other that becomes almost offensive.”

• Respect Boundaries: Avoid contacting personal avenues like cell phones unless previously agreed upon.

  Jason Pfeiffer [10:20]: “Don't call my phone unless you're a friend.”

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7. Personal Reflections and Lessons Learned

Both hosts reflect on their behaviors in high-stress situations, acknowledging moments where they've swung from polite persistence to frustration. They emphasize the importance of pausing before reacting and understanding the other party's perspective.

Nicole Lapin [24:14]: “Holding this grudge... is like taking poison and hoping the other person will die.”

Jason Pfeiffer [25:46]: “Recognizing reactance... was just that thing that we do when we feel pushed.”

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8. Conclusion

The episode wraps up with a consensus that effective help-seeking hinges on balancing persistence with respect for the other person's autonomy. By providing clear context, limiting follow-ups, and maintaining empathy, individuals can foster cooperative relationships and achieve their objectives without alienating others.

Jason Pfeiffer [27:24]: “The way to be persistent in a way that is productive is to find some way to help the other person feel like they are making a choice to help you.”

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Key Takeaways:

• Understand Reactance: Be aware of how your requests might be perceived and aim to minimize resistance.

• Effective Communication: Clearly articulate the reasons behind your requests and the importance of timely assistance.

• Limit Your Follow-Ups: Find the sweet spot between being persistent and being respectful of others' time and boundaries.

• Empathy is Crucial: Strive to see the situation from the other person's perspective to foster mutual cooperation.

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Notable Quotes:

• Jason Pfeiffer [16:26]: “Reactance is an unpleasant motivational arousal that emerges when people experience a threat to or loss of their free behaviors.”

• Nicole Lapin [17:31]: “This is the saying, like, you get more with honey than with bees.”

• Jason Pfeiffer [27:24]: “The way to be persistent in a way that is productive is to find some way to help the other person feel like they are making a choice to help you.”

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For more insights and practical solutions to your work-related challenges, tune into future episodes of Help Wanted on Money News Network.

Transcript

[Nicole Lapin]

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[Jason Pfeiffer]

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[Nicole Lapin]

Breathing room when I actually would have needed it.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

It is so simple. Banking should not cost you money. And with Chime, it doesn't open your account in two [e-mail] help wanted.

[Nicole Lapin]

Chime feels like progress.

[Chime Representative]

Chime is a financial technology company, not a bank. Banking services and debit card provided by the Bancorp Bank NA or Stride Bank NA members, FDIC spot and eligibility requirements and overdraft limits apply. Timing depends on submission of payment file. Fees apply at out of network ATMs, bank ranking and number of ATMs, according to U.S. news and World Report, 2023 Chime checking account required.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

This is Help Wanted, the show that makes your work work for you. I'm Jason Pfeiffer, editor in chief of.

[Nicole Lapin]

Entrepreneur magazine, and I'm money expert Nicole Lapin. On Tuesdays, Jason and I answer the helpline and solve their work problems.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

And on Thursdays, I give you one way to improve your work and build a career or company you love.

[Nicole Lapin]

And it starts now.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Nicole, on my way to meet you to record this podcast, I got a call from a number I didn't recognize and I let it go to voicemail.

[Nicole Lapin]

Smart.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

And I want to play you the voicemail that this person left me. Okay, ready? Here we go. We're going to have to do some bleeping.

[John Eddie]

Hi Jason, it's John eddie calling about CrowdStrike. There was an article that Entrepreneur.com picked up earlier this week that was updated. Just hoping to get in touch with someone to get that fixed. Can you give me a call when you can please? Or take a look at your email? Thanks so much.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Bye. How panicked does that guy say?

[Nicole Lapin]

Please, please call me. What is the story here? Do you know this man?

[Jason Pfeiffer]

I don't know this man, but I did know who he was? Because he has sent me three emails in the last 24 hours.

[Nicole Lapin]

And. And is it like urgent?

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Urgent. So he emailed me multiple times. I also found out that he emailed other editors at Entrepreneur multiple times. Then he somehow tracked down my personal cell phone number and he called me. All because we ran some syndicated article, which means basically that it was an article that started somewhere else and then through all these content publisher relationships, like, it sort of ends up on a bunch of other sites. And he wanted spokesperson. It was about some company that he represents, and he wanted a quote from the company to be added to the article. And anyway, the details of this don't matter. Here is the reason I want to talk to you about it.

[Nicole Lapin]

Okay.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

I understand that he wants something changed urgently and that change is beneficial to his company. I get it. I understand that is a situation that people are in and I am usually receptive to that. But after three emails in 24 hours to me and to multiple other people, I just didn't have a chance to look at what he was talking about. And then a call to my personal cell phone where he is. He is hyperventilating. I do not want to give that guy what he wants. I don't care what it is. I do not want to give it to him because I'm so annoyed at that level of persistence, which tips into something else. And this got me thinking about how there's an interesting line between being nudged and reminded and persistence, which can be a good thing. You and I have surely both created many professional opportunities for ourselves by being persistent and tipping into something else that I don't have a word for.

[Nicole Lapin]

Maybe aggressive.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Yeah. Or like annoying where you turn the other person off. Like, what is that line between being persistent and being someone who you do not want to help you get the adverse effect.

[Nicole Lapin]

So we know that one side of the spectrum is three urgent emails in 24 hours plus a breathless call to your cell phone.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Right.

[Nicole Lapin]

And the other side of the spectrum is one friendly, lovely email.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Yeah, like one quick. But one friendly hey, you wait a little bit. And they're like, hey, sorry, just checking in kind of thing. That would be.

[Nicole Lapin]

I would advocate again, saying sorry, but okay, sure.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

You should unpack that a little bit more later.

[Nicole Lapin]

I think we apologize for things that we don't do wrong a lot in business. It ends up, especially for women, saying sorry for something you didn't do wrong feels weak to me. Like turning that around. I appreciate your patience, or thank you so much for your patience or whatever.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Okay.

[Nicole Lapin]

Turning that into something a little bit stronger. Yeah, I generally advocate for it, but I digress. So I would say. Okay. One email to you. Hey, just wanted to let you know that I have a spokesperson who has a thing to say that would be awesome if it is indeed urgent, maybe follow up after a certain amount of time. Granted. This is this guy's like number one thing to do today. And it's your number one millionth.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Yeah, Right.

[Nicole Lapin]

To do today.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Doesn't really matter to me in any way.

[Nicole Lapin]

For sure.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

And just to be clear, we at Entrepreneur do not have a policy of updating every syndicated article because somebody reached out. This is not like a thing that we usually do.

[Nicole Lapin]

And to clarify, what this guy is asking you for is essentially a favor. So he probably represents this company and the company said, there's an article somewhere out there. I want to be part of it. He wants to make the client happy. And so they're bothering him about it to be part of it. So he's pestering you. But it's not like you guys said or you picked up another story that said this company killed children and is something factually incorrect.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Yeah, it's beside the point. But just to make sure it's clear, like what this guy is being urgent about the story that ran, which again, Entrepreneur didn't write, somebody else wrote, it was about this company that he represents facing a regulatory probe into some transaction, some kind of wrongdoing. And what he wants added to it is a quote from the company's spokesperson that says this is old news and the fact remains we stand by the accounting of the transaction. So I get it. This is a moment of news and not a good moment of news for this company. And I think that this guy is making a clear calculation, which is that the value of getting that denial out into the world is greater than ongoing relationships with the people that he's reaching out to. To be fair, we've all made that choice at some point. I'm never going to need or reach out to this specific person again. I'm just going to badger them until they give me this thing that I really need. And I'll burn that bridge. But I just need this thing enough. And presumably he's making that kind of decision, although actually, I'm not sure that he is because, well, here's what happened is my colleague at Entrepreneur decided to give him what he's looking for and update the article, and then wrote him back to say so. But also said, number one, we don't typically make updated to syndicated Articles. And then number two, I like this line. Furthermore, my colleague writes, while I understand this is an important matter to you, three emails in 24 hours, plus a call to an editor's personal cell phone over an article that we did not write is excessive and unwarranted.

[Nicole Lapin]

Wow.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

She writes sassy emails. And I love it. And he wrote back and he said, I appreciate you getting back to me.

[Nicole Lapin]

This is where I'm sorry makes sense.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Yeah, he didn't. He didn't say that. He just said he appreciates getting back to us. And thank you for updating this article when we did not hear any response to our emails. I hope you can understand the need to try other methods to get in touch. I, of course, share your desire to avoid any similar excessive escalation in the future. He says, exclamation mark. To which I then replied, just a few minutes ago, just before we started recording this, I just simply wrote, I do not understand you calling my personal cell phone. Do not do that.

[Nicole Lapin]

Wow.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

End of email.

[Nicole Lapin]

Go, Jason.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Very clear. You totally annoyed me. I'm not into that at all. But it does lead to this interesting question, which is worth engaging with, which is what's too much? How do you try to get what you want? Maybe in a accelerated timeline.

[Nicole Lapin]

Also, I find it really annoying. So to this guy's email, he didn't apologize.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

He said, I hope you can understand the need to try other methods to get in touch.

[Nicole Lapin]

No. Before escalation.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Oh, that was.

[Nicole Lapin]

That was like this little jab. We will sue you if you don't respond because we are some company who's being sued and we need to. Whatever.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Oh, yeah.

[Nicole Lapin]

To further escalation. The escalation thing.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Similar excessive escalation in the future. All right, let's give this guy his due before we draw the line between being effectively persistent and annoyingly persistent. Maybe that's the line which is. Or counterproductively. Assistant. Ah. I have our terms. Which is productively persistent versus counterproductively persistent.

[Nicole Lapin]

Okay.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

One is persistence that gets you what you're looking for. The second is persistence that maybe does get you what you're looking for, but.

[Nicole Lapin]

Gets you a sassy. Jason. Email also is not a common occurrence.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

I send very few sassy.

[Nicole Lapin]

Your colleague does. I do.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Oh, yeah.

[Nicole Lapin]

You don't know.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

I really don't.

[Nicole Lapin]

You send very lovely responses.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Kill them with kindness.

[Nicole Lapin]

Maybe the most sassy I've heard.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

I really don't like people calling my personal cell phone because it's not published somewhere. Yeah.

[Nicole Lapin]

Where did they get it?

[Jason Pfeiffer]

I don't know. So he had to do some work. That's very stuff impressive. But don't call my personal cell phone.

[Nicole Lapin]

No, no, I don't want to call anything. I mean, and we know that, that this is not a work phone because we know you're on your family plan.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Yes, that's right. From an older episode of Help Wanted. I am still on my family's family plan and my parents pay for it. Go listen to the past episode to hear about that. So let's first talk about what that guy could have done differently, if anything. And then let's talk about where the line is because there certainly are things that we all want and the other person hasn't responded and the only thing to do is to just keep at it.

[Nicole Lapin]

Yeah. Because it's the most important thing to you today. You're super anxious about it.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Right.

[Nicole Lapin]

You keep checking your phone like we've all been in those situations.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

And to be fair to him, it's not just him being anxious about it. I'm sure he's got layers of people who are anxious about it. And he is the tip of the spear who's got to somehow fix the problem. He's got to get in touch with whoever the hell can go into the CMS of entrepreneur.com and hit publish. And he's got a job to do. And I appreciate that. What could he have done differently?

[Nicole Lapin]

Well, he certainly should not have called your personal family plan cell phone.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Yeah.

[Nicole Lapin]

To all of our dear listeners who may want to urgently get in touch with Jason Pfeiffer, please do not call his cell phone. He does not like it. So he should not have done that. He probably should have sent the first email. Was the first email urgent or did the urgency increase as the 24 hours progressed?

[Jason Pfeiffer]

It did include the word please. Could you please update your article?

[Nicole Lapin]

I'm bullish on the word please.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Yeah. And then he followed up, said, hoping you can get this quote added. And then he wrote a little bit more. He did say thanks. And then in his.

[Nicole Lapin]

Did he give context as to why?

[Jason Pfeiffer]

No, he just said it should happen. And then in the third email he did use the word. Sorry to continue to bug on this, but we really need to ask that this article be updated.

[Nicole Lapin]

I still don't fully understand the context of the urgency. I think that would be helpful. I think the second follow up could be for clarity. This is a high stakes explaining a little bit more.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

That's true issue.

[Nicole Lapin]

I have some pressure.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

That's a really good point because I did see These emails yesterday, as they rolled in yesterday was a busy day. I had a ton of calls. I wasn't actually on my email all that often, but I saw them and I looked at them quickly and I saw. Here's what I saw. What I saw was this guy saying, hey, you ran this piece, Here's a link to this piece. We need to make a change. And that is not a high priority request for me. I got too many other things and I'm not going to click on this article and read it and then read your thing and then be like, oh, now I understand what. And he didn't explain any of that. He just told me what he needs and some context so that I can understand what this request is and why it is important. Would have been really helpful. And you're right, that was all lacking.

[Nicole Lapin]

Yeah, some. Something to the effect of, I know this is a syndicated thing. I know that you didn't write this. It's a really high stakes legal thing that my client is dealing with and it would be really important to us. Love to stay in touch as a source. We have some exclusive thing coming out, but getting a lot of internal pressure about this getting picked up and spreading so quickly in this syndication thing. I know you're not responsible for, but would be really great.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

That would have all been great and.

[Nicole Lapin]

I'd love to be helpful to you in the future.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

And I would have read that when it first came in and I would have had a lot more sympathy for him. But instead what he did was he just was a dick. It's funny because he certainly wasn't trying to be a dick. Like his initial emails aren't dick ish. But what they are is basically they're like ordering a hamburger, right? That's what he's doing. He's ordering a hamburger. He's just like transactionally, hey, here's the thing we need. Hey, we need this thing. Hey, sorry to bug you, but we really need this thing, you know, and it's like, dude, I don't sell hamburgers. Hamburgers. And so to give some context to help me appreciate why this is urgent and that he's under a lot of pressure because it's interesting now that I think back on it, diagnosing this, I don't know that this is important to you, but now I'm getting three emails on a call and I don't have time for this, dude, like whatever this is. But if you had oriented me to why this is important, then I totally would have been more sympathetic. And that's ultimately the thing here. Right. Which is that to try to figure out the difference between being productively persistent and unproductively persistent is to really try to help people understand or appreciate the persistence and the value of that persistence to you and hopefully to them too.

[Nicole Lapin]

Yeah. And I don't think he would. Again, I'm no lawyer or great legal mind, but a lot of people throw around this escalation idea or this lawsuit idea. And even if it's unwarranted, if he had given you the context of hey, I have a client who is getting litigious over these things that aren't where his. Their quotes are not included or whatever. And I think it's unmerited. But just want to give you a heads up that adding this would be super helpful in that context and avoid some.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Right. I occasionally get letters from either actual lawyers who want something that is not really a legal issue, or people who are just trying to write like lawyers.

[Nicole Lapin]

And.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

And I hate that because it always feels like someone has shown up at your door with a battering ram and it makes me want to push back. Stick around. Help Wanted will be right back. Welcome back to Help Wanted. Let's get to it. I think it's reactance. Yeah, it is reactance. I'll do it again. There's this psychological concept called reactance. You familiar with reactance?

[Nicole Lapin]

Tell me.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

I will. Reactance. I'm just gonna read from a website here. Reactance is a unpleasant motivational arousal that emerges when people experience a threat to or loss of their free behaviors. So in other words, when you tell somebody else what to do or they feel like they are being pushed, their instinct is to push back. And so of course, the very nature of trying to get what you want from someone or to try to change someone else's behavior is to avoid triggering reactance. If someone feels like they are being pushed in a corner, it doesn't matter what it is, they will push back. And that is absolutely what just happened to me here was in looking at this, I understand that this guy has a job to do. I understand that he is not just dreaming up reasons to annoy people. And yet because of the way that he came at us, it totally triggered reactance for me where I just felt like you are pushing me into doing something. And therefore on that alone, I do not want to do it.

[Nicole Lapin]

Okay? So in a non clinical way, I just had this exact same conversation with my best friend on text yesterday because I have been in. I say to her, why am I in my fighting era? It's such bad vibes. And for context, I have had a lot of battles that have been ongoing personally and somewhat professionally now that I don't love. I'm fighting back with all of this. We've talked about this on other episodes. All this rebuilding stuff, FEMA and denials and SBA and insurance everything. And I have to consult with my new lawyer, chat GPT, and ask them for some legal leaves to sprinkle in to stuff.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

And it just billable hour rate is very good for ChatGPT. Yeah, it's great.

[Nicole Lapin]

So I said, why am I in my fighting era? It's such bad vibes. She said, I get like this too, and it's so bad. It's a magnet for fighting. Everyone, they get into an oppositional posture and they see it coming.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

I've seen a little bit of this because I've been cc'd on some of your fighting era emails with people who you are trying to get them to get you a document or to fix something related to the fire. And I totally appreciate where it's coming from. You completely overwhelmed. You got so much to do, and people are not being nearly as helpful as they could, but you definitely come out swinging. So if they can't immediately solve the problem, sometimes your tone with them is like, God damn it, people, what the hell? And that's what you're talking about, and that's what she's responding to.

[Nicole Lapin]

Yeah. It sucks. You're in that mindset and you go in with your gloves on.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Yeah.

[Nicole Lapin]

I feel like I need to win a battle somewhere. And then people come back because they see you with your boxing gloves on. And I don't know, because I've also gone in with no boxing gloves and have also gotten nothing. So I think it's trying to get the outcome. If you're not getting it with the proverbial honey, are you gonna get it.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

With a stick with the bees? Oh, I guess that would be the bees. Right. I just mixed up the metaphor. Yeah. If you send bees after people, will they give you what you want?

[Nicole Lapin]

This is the saying, like, you get more with.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Yeah, yeah.

[Nicole Lapin]

Than with bees. Why the expression.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

You can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar? That makes more sense. Because you want to get rid of the flies.

[Nicole Lapin]

I see. Okay. So if you're not catching the proverbial flies with honey, do you try the vinegar?

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Yeah.

[Nicole Lapin]

And I've been in a vinegar era.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Yeah.

[Nicole Lapin]

And it doesn't really work.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

No.

[Nicole Lapin]

And sometimes it does work, but it makes.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

It makes people not want to Help you.

[Nicole Lapin]

It makes people not want to help me, even if they're at the dmv, which was where you were copied. And so everybody was trying to get.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

The people at the DMV to be helpful. And of course we all know that trying to get people from a DMV to be helpful is just the baseline is no, they will not be helpful.

[Nicole Lapin]

Losing battle.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Yeah, it was at least engaged with you by email. Here's a thought. I am aware of this one interesting experiment into circumventing reactants. And it does not help us in either of our sort of one to one conversation points. But maybe we can draw some kind of lesson from it. And that's this. Many years ago, Thailand was trying to figure out how to reduce smoking. And they did the thing that you do, which is. Or that nations do, which is to just run a lot of anti smoking ads and tell you about how scary smoking is and whatever. And that actually doesn't work very well because it triggers reactance. If somebody is a smoker, they're like, stop it. Stop telling me what to do. I don't like that. And so these efforts don't actually reduce smoking. And then they hired a ad agency who came up with this brilliant campaign and the campaign was that they sent children over to talk to people who were smoking. So you've got an adult smoking and you've got a child who walks over to that adult and there's a camera filming it. And the child asks the adult for a cigarette and the adult does the appropriate thing, which is to tell the child, don't smoke, smoking is dangerous. And then the child hands the adult a card and walks away. And the adult looks down at the card and the card says something like, you care about my health, why don't you care about your own? Oh, and they filmed this over and over and over again and then put together these television campaigns showing these interactions. And at the end of it was just a phone number for the WIT Smoking helpline. And the calls to that helpline skyrocketed and rates of smoking in Thailand went down. And the reason this worked, of course, is because it wasn't telling people what to do. It was instead helping them recognize the gap between their beliefs and their actions. And if you can help people discover that on their own, then they feel like the next thing to do is to make a choice. And that of course is the opposite of reactance. And that is a very interesting lesson that I think about from time to time because it inside of that story is a lot about human psychology and about how we often do things that are either counter to our own needs or in willful ignorance of other people's needs. Often because what we really, at a baseline lizard brain thing, want to do is just protect our own ability to make our own choice. And this dude from this company who emailed me three times and then called me, I just experienced it as him removing choice from me. And that's why I didn't like it. And that's often why people don't like when someone comes at them swinging. So in figuring out the distinction between how to move people towards what you want without them feeling like you're pushing them away from their own ability to choose is probably where the line is between being productively proactive and unproductively proactive.

[Nicole Lapin]

That makes sense. And I will tell you from firsthand experience, the other saying is true, that holding this grudge, having this sort of mindset, is like taking poison and hoping the other person will die. And for humans, that I don't know this man who called your cell phone, but maybe he doesn't feel the same way. Maybe he doesn't experience it as poison. But for somebody who's not used to being in a fighting era, it definitely can poison yourself. Yeah, you can. I can feel like I actually now.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Feel kind of like a jerk that I sent him that sassy email. Really just wouldn't have said anything. I guess I didn't need to. The whole interaction was done. My colleague did the thing. She told him, dude, you pushed too much. He replied. He was like, I appreciate you making the change. I agree. Further escalation not needed. And it was done. And then I came in with a little tap dance to just be like, ah, screw you. Just because it made me feel good in the moment when I sent it, Because I'm annoyed that that guy had pestered me so much. But now that we're talking about it and it's like, oh, he had a job to do. And how big of a deal was it that my cell phone rang when I was on the subway to come see you? Not a big deal. And I think what makes me really now feel like a jerk to have sent that email was just to recognize the thing that happened, which was reactance. That what I was actually being driven by here was just that thing that we do when we feel pushed.

[Nicole Lapin]

Yeah, I think it's recognizing where no response is a response. Also that, and I try, but I'm terrible at it. Is taking a pause. You never regret an extra pause for an email. And I can sometimes feel myself viscerally shaking. I don't know if it's really shaking. That not necessary, but I could. I sometimes find myself physically upset. Emails that I feel have done me wrong or whatever and I send them and we talk about them here and I regret them for sure. But I tend to not regret the ones that I've taken a pause on.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Yeah. So to be effectively persistent, I think comes back to what you said that guy should have done in the beginning, which was to just try to humanize the situation as much as possible. The more I think about that, the more I realize that had he explained himself better and explained why this is urgent to him and, and maybe that the company is bearing down on him or whatever, he doesn't need to give me like a whole sob story, but just enough information so that it doesn't feel like he's just ordering a hamburger from me and therefore or pushing me into something. The more in which I would have felt like I am going to make the decision to help the guy out. And that would have actually been the end run around reactance. And so the way to be persistent in a way that is productive is to find some way to help the other person feel like they are making a choice to help you. That I think is the solution to the problem.

[Nicole Lapin]

Yeah, I think that one reminder is sometimes really helpful and productive. We all lose emails. I think it's around the third one that gets to the point of too much. And we're both on and we have other episodes about this where we're on these marketing lists where they email us back and we didn't hear from you. Guess it doesn't matter to you. Or guess some sassy, weird third email in the drip campaign or whatever they're doing. And it's almost like offensive at that point. It's like, I don't need this third or fourth email. We're good here. And if I haven't responded before with the reminder, which is sometimes helpful because I miss a lot of stuff. But I think it's the third email that's without any response from the other.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

And then with no change of strategy, I guess the strategy that was that he called my cell phone, which is what really put it over the top. So really just don't call my phone unless you're a friend. You can call my phone, Nicole. I'm scared to call you. Help Wanted is a production of Money News Network. Help Wanted is hosted by me, Jason.

Pfeiffer and me, Nicole Lapin.

[Nicole Lapin]

Our executive producer is Morgan Lee. You want some help? Email our helpline@help wantedoneynewsnetwork.com for the chance to have some of your questions answered on the show. And follow us on Instagramoney News and TikTok MoneyNews Network for exclusive content and to see our beautiful faces. Maybe a little dance?

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Oh, I didn't sign up for that.

[Nicole Lapin]

All right, well, talk to you soon.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

It.