How to Get People’s Attention, Guaranteed

Summary

Podcast Summary: Help Wanted
Episode: How to Get People’s Attention, Guaranteed
Date: October 2, 2025
Hosts: Jason Feifer (Entrepreneur Editor in Chief), Nicole Lapin (Money Expert)

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into the art of getting people’s attention in professional settings—be it sales calls, networking, or presentations—by defying expectations and “shocking the narrative.” Jason Feifer shares a powerful lesson from Shark Tank’s Robert Herjavec on breaking conventional patterns to create memorable, genuine connections that drive engagement and results.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Problem: Playing It Too Safe

• Many professionals struggle to stand out because they do exactly what’s expected—resulting in interactions that are competent but forgettable.
• Jason frames the issue:

  “You are giving people exactly what they expect. And what they expect is boring.”
  [02:51]

2. Robert Herjavec’s Advice: Shock the Narrative

• Jason recounts an interview with Robert Herjavec, who shared a story about a young sales rep who knew the company’s products but failed to connect with clients.
• Herjavec’s advice to the struggling salesperson:
  • Enter the sales meeting, remain silent for a minute, then honestly state:

    “I am so nervous. This is my first sales call.”

  • This honest admission led to a dramatic turnaround—clients felt empathy and wanted to help.
• Jason emphasizes:

  “Robert stresses, this was not manipulation. The kid really was nervous, and it really was early in his career. Robert simply helped him lead with his humanity instead of hiding behind a professional facade.”
  [04:37]

3. Why This Works

• People expect a scripted, predictable professional interaction; defying that expectation forces them to pay attention and see you as more human and unique.
• Jason paraphrases Herjavec:

  “People don’t really want to listen to you… When you go on a sales call and you sit down and you’re so excited, the client is thinking, ‘How the hell do I get this person to leave?’”
  [05:30]

4. Everyday Examples of Narrative Shocking

• Virtual Meetings: Jason takes calls wherever he is (in the car, on the street), sharing about his day, which prompts unexpected, authentic conversation starters.
• Presentations: He opens keynote talks with an absurd or comedic “big promise” to disarm and engage his audience:

  “I’m not going to spoil it for you here. But anyway, everyone laughs.”
  [06:44]

• Performances: A juggler intentionally drops a pin to make the act appear riskier and more impressive, breaking the “effortless” narrative and earning genuine audience appreciation.

5. How to Apply This Yourself

• Ask yourself:
  • “What are people expecting?”
  • “How can I go beyond that?”
• Sometimes, doing something that feels “bad” or unprofessional (being honest about nerves, breaking from formalities, or even making a small mistake) can make you more memorable and relatable.

6. Final Takeaways

• Jason’s closing reflection:

  “Good is forgettable, safe is interchangeable, expected is underwhelming. Shock those narratives, then build your own.”
  [08:33]

• Before you can shock others’ narratives, you may need to challenge your own expectations about what’s “proper” or “good” in professional settings.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the power of honesty:

  “I am so nervous. This is my first sales call.”
  (Advice given by Robert Herjavec to his sales rep, paraphrased by Jason) [04:05]

• On audience expectations:

  “The narrative is: this meeting will be boring. This keynote speaker will be bombastic. The performance will go as planned. And each time the narrative is shocked, people lean in closer.”
  [07:20]

• On professional risk:

  “In all the examples I just gave, something technically bad happened… But in each case, that bad thing had a positive result.”
  [07:49]

• Episode close-out:

  “Good is forgettable, safe is interchangeable, expected is underwhelming. Shock those narratives, then build your own.”
  [08:33]

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Important Timestamps

• 02:51 – Jason sets up the main problem: being forgettable by following expectations.
• 04:05 – Robert Herjavec’s radical advice for connecting with clients; the story of the nervous sales rep.
• 05:30 – Why most professional interactions are ignored; people have mental scripts.
• 06:44 – Jason’s own use of shocking the narrative in keynote speeches and virtual meetings.
• 07:20 – Applying narrative disruption: lessons from jugglers and performers.
• 07:49 – The common thread: “bad” moments can have unexpectedly positive results.
• 08:33 – Final takeaway and encouragement to the audience.

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This episode offers a fresh perspective for anyone feeling stuck in professional ruts—reminding listeners that authenticity, surprise, and vulnerability are not just refreshing, but are often the keys to truly memorable and effective work.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

This is Help Wanted, the show that makes your work work for you. I'm Jason Pfeiffer, editor in chief of.

[A]

Entrepreneur magazine, and I'm money expert N. Lapin. On Tuesdays, Jason and I answer the helpline and help callers solve their work problems.

[B]

And on Thursdays, I give you one way to improve your work and build a career or company you love.

[A]

And it starts now.

[B]

You are struggling to stand out. Maybe your sales calls feel flat or your networking conversations go nowhere or your presentations get polite nods, but no real engagement. You are doing everything right, quote unquote. But something is missing. Here's the problem. You are giving people exactly what they expect. And what they expect is boring. Today, I'm going to share a powerful technique that I learned from Shark Tank's Robert Herjavec. He calls it shock the narrative. And once you understand how to shock the narrative, you are going to see ways to use it everywhere. But first, let's talk about how it works in sales and. And a young salesman who couldn't close a single deal. Okay, let's back up for a second. Everyone knows Robert from Shark Tank, but here's what they often don't know. Robert's fortune comes from cybersecurity, where he built one of the largest firms in the world. I interviewed Robert on stage at a conference called Level up, hosted by Entrepreneur magazine. And during that talk, Robert told me about a problem at his company. They had hired a young sales guy. The kid was smart, professional, and learned everything about the company's products. But he couldn't close a deal. This kid's a loser. The sales manager told Robert. Let's get him out of here. But Robert wanted to join a few calls with the kid first, see what was going on. And what he observed was really telling. This kid did nothing wrong. But he also did nothing to connect with his clients. He was perfectly competent and perfectly forgettable. So Robert gave him some unusual advice. On your next sales call, he said, I want you to walk in, sit down, don't say anything for like a minute, then look the client in the eye and say, I'm so thankful for you taking this meeting. But I have to be honest, I am so nervous. This is my first sales call. The results of this, of this strange tactic were immediate and dramatic. The kid started closing Major deals. Why? Robert explained it to me like this. He said, we are selling to middle aged men, typically in it, as soon as he said he was nervous, our clients all start thinking, he's like my son, I want to help him. Robert stresses, this was not manipulation. The kid really was nervous, and it really was early in his career. Robert simply helped him lead with his humanity instead of hiding behind a professional facade. And in doing so, the kid shocked the narrative. So what does it mean to shock the narrative? In most professional situations, people think they know exactly how things will go. They're expecting a standardized, predictable experience, which means they're mentally checked out before you even begin. People don't really want to listen to you. Robert told me, when you go on a sales call and you sit down and you're so excited, the client is thinking, how the hell do I get this person to leave? In other words, they already have a narrative about how this will go. So to get their attention, you must defy the narrative to do something so unexpected and genuine that it forces people to look at you anew. Ever since Robert told me this, I can't stop seeing the idea everywhere. Here are just three examples. So, number one, virtual meetings. I used to rush home for virtual calls so that I could take them in my home office. Now I take them anywhere. The car, the street, wherever I am. I start by sharing what's going on in my day, and that prompts something fun and interesting from the person I'm meeting with. And frankly, being wherever I am is visually more interesting because, you know, we're on zoom or whatever than my home office. By the time we get down to business, it feels like we're friends. Here's a second place that I see this a lot. Presentations. I give keynote talks to corporate audiences. I always start by making this big promise. I say, I study patterns of success. And one pattern has emerged among all others. One thing seems to determine whether you will be successful or not. And that thing is. And then the thing that I say next is ridiculous. And I show something ridiculous, too. I'm not going to spoil it for you here. But anyway, everyone laughs. All right. And here's the third place where I see this. Performances. A juggler once told a friend of mine something fascinating. He said, once I learned how to juggle five pins, it became easy. And that means it looks easy to my audience. So when the juggler performs, he always intentionally drops a pin. Because then the audience thinks, oh, wow, that's really hard. Then they feel attention and they appreciate the juggler. More. In each case, a narrative is being disrupted, right? The narrative is this meeting will be boring. This keynote speaker will be bombastic. The performance will go as planned. And each time the narrative is shocked, people lean in closer. So what narrative are you stuck on? The next time you're trying to stand out, it is worth asking yourself, number one, what are people expecting? And number two, how can I go beyond that? And it's worth recognizing the answer may not be what you expect. In all the examples I just gave, something technically bad happened. You know, the salesperson deflated themselves, the meeting seemed less professional, the speaker undercut himself, the performer messed up. But in each case, that bad thing had a positive result. It goes to show, even we have narratives about how our own work will go or should go. So before we shock anyone else's narrative, we must shock our own. Good is forgettable, safe is interchangeable, expected is underwhelming. Shock those narratives, then build your own. Help Wanted is a production of Money News Network. Help Wanted is hosted by me, Jason.

[A]

Pfeiffer, and me, Nicole Lapman. Our executive producer is Morgan Lavoy. Do you want some help? Email our [e-mail] for the chance to have some of your questions answered on the show. And follow us on Instagramoneynews and TikTok at MoneyNews Network for exclusive content and to see our beautiful faces. Maybe a little dance?

[B]

Oh, I didn't sign up for that.

[A]

All right, well, talk to you soon.