← Help Wanted
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- [00:07]
A
This is Help Wanted, the show that makes your work work for you. I'm Jason Pfeiffer, editor in chief of.
- [00:13]
B
Entrepreneur magazine, and I'm money expert Nicole Lapin. On Tuesdays, Jason and I answer the helpline and help callers solve their work problems.
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A
And on Thursdays, I give you one way to improve your work and build a career or company you love.
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B
And it starts now.
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A
Nicole, how do you feel right now?
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B
Do. Do you want the very. The very honest answer, like the most unvarnished answer?
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A
Yes.
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B
I feel so large. I. I feel like I cannot breathe. I normally can't breathe, as you know, and we swap tips about this, but I extra can't breathe. My pelvis is on fire.
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A
Right.
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B
There's a thing called lightning Crouch, which you haven't experienced, but it's a real side effect of pregnancy. If you look up all the side effects of pregnancy, it looks like this crazy fucking disease.
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A
Yeah, well, I mean, in any other circumstance, you. You might as well say that it is a terrible disease. Like you have a thing growing inside of you. Usually a thing growing inside of you, not a thing. You want the thing that sounds bad.
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B
You know, human life.
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A
You. This is how it happens. We're. We're a bunch of animals. It's really crazy. Like, going through pregnancy just shows you, like, we're not elevated in any way. We're a bunch of animals doing animal things. You are beyond nine months pregnant right now, right? Like, literally beyond it.
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B
Yeah, I am.
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A
We were not supposed to be recording today because you were supposed to already be on maternity leave.
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B
I know, but I. I don't have the baby yet.
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A
Right. So. But just. Just. Just to be really, really clear, before we get into this, what we're going to talk about today is we're going to talk about stepping back and what you're feeling in this moment, because you. You and I, we. We work like crazy, and you've built this company, and now you're going to take a big old break from it, and that's scary. Yeah, you don't want to scary. Which is why you're here today. Because. So just for context, so everybody understands, the episodes with you and I that people hear every week are recorded every other week for us. We set aside a bunch of time, and then we record a bunch of episodes in a row. And two weeks ago was supposed to be the last one, and then we were supposed to say, bye, Nicole. Have a wonderful maternity. And you were like, no, if I haven't had the baby, we're going to make another recording. Which is crazy, but also says a lot about how dedicated you are to your work. So how. How is it? Staring down, stepping away. Like, how. How are you feeling about that?
- [02:57]
B
Yeah, so aside from the acid reflux that I forgot to mention, I am feeling a lot of things. Like, my first baby has always been work, and so it's always been my main focus and my main priority. And it's funny, we had a guest on Money Rehab a few weeks ago who was like, oh, you're a mama already. Because on my Instagram bio it says like, mama of money news or something. And so I've always felt that way. Like, and especially with Eminence, it's my baby. And so, like, I don't want to leave. I don't want to leave my baby for another baby. And I've never had an actual baby, so. So it's really weird. And, like, working for yourself and not a formal, you know, maternity leave program. I'm curious what you and Gen did or how much paternity leave, if you took any, or what kind of entrepreneurial things you were doing when you were having the boys. But it's confusing. I went through a bunch of, you know, rigmarole to try and figure out if there was anything for entrepreneurs. California is kind of robust, but still, it was really hard and complicated, and I never ended up figuring something out with it. So, you know, you're in a position where, if you're an entrepreneur who has a, you know, bootstrap startup and not a formal mat leave program, you're like, well, I. I eat what I kill. And so if I'm not killing anything because I'm. I'm trying to keep a human alive, then, like, are we eating stuff? And so it. It's. It was a lot of, you know, that concern and consideration to try and figure out, like, do I take time off? How much time do I take? I have no idea what's about to happen, so let's just, you know, work for as long as I can. But I also had a lot of anxiety around where I would be working because until a few months ago, we. We opened Beautiful Eminence Studios, but the studio was in a room in my house. And so I.
- [05:02]
A
Right. Just. Just to be. Just to be clear, the vast majority of the time, almost all the time that people have heard you, you have been on mic in a studio, which was actually just in a bedroom in your home that you had set up as a studio, and now that bedroom is taken over by a baby. So you had to go find another place to put that microphone.
- [05:24]
B
I did. I did. And it was so convenient. And we had real shoots in there. We had Gary Vee coming by. We had a bunch of celebrities and cool stuff going on. And so it was in my house, but it was also so convenient. And. And, yeah, it was the only place where we could put a baby. And my husband, he is also an entrepreneur. We created, like, a shed for him basically on the roof for his office. And, you know, like, the baby can't live in a shed outside. The baby needed the room inside. And it is currently a nursery. And now we have beautiful actual offices with, like, real big rooms and setups and stuff. And it's awesome, and it's a huge upgrade and a huge testament to all of the work we've done in the last couple of years. But I also was trying to figure out at the time, do we get a bigger house? Like, so we were looking simultaneously at some larger homes that we could have the office in the home, plus a baby room, you know, plus Jared's office, whatever.
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A
Yeah.
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B
And, you know, something about it just made me feel like I might need some separation because having baby stuff, work stuff, all in the same place felt maybe like I would, you know, be having an identity crisis in no time and not really able to step away and not really able to get back to my first baby, my first love. And so, yeah, I think it ended up working out from that perspective, and I think having that separation is going to be really important, and I think that's setting me up for more success than I would have had otherwise.
- [07:20]
A
You know, what's interesting is this metaphor that you had has evolved because. So work was your first baby, and that baby had its own little nursery in the form of a studio in your home.
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B
That's right.
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A
And then the baby had. The work baby, got kicked out for an actual baby, which is forcing the work baby to grow up and to become. To become like a work child or a work young adult. And. And for a while you were like, well, but maybe they can both be babies and they can both have their own little nurseries at home. But you're thinking, no, no, no. Like, this is. This is. This is actually like, to have a child is in some way to accelerate or to force the evolution of the other things in your life. Which. Which is exactly, for what it's worth, what I have found with me, like, I am. And we've talked about this, I am so deeply frustrated by the thoughts of how much more I might have Accomplished or could do or whatever than that I can't because I have kids. But at the same time, I have to remind myself that the time of my life in which I have had children, which has been nine years, I have a nine year old and a five year old. That time has been the time of greatest accomplishment in my life. Like, I have built the most during that time. So even as I focus on like all the things that I couldn't do, I've also done the most. And, and like, why is that? I mean, part of that is just like, if you're doing life correctly, then there should always be new things and you're growing. But another part of it is that I, I think that just having the kid forced me to put structures around my time in a way that I never had before. And to be really intentional about how I'm using my time and to drop things that, you know, I enjoyed but that just weren't as productive a use of my time. And as a result, my work has thrived. And that sounds like what you're setting up here.
- [09:22]
B
Yeah. I mean, you talk very honestly. We did a whole episode about this. This was how I told you I was pregnant after you bashed children for an hour.
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A
Worth going back and listening to that episode.
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B
Yeah, we'll link it. Yeah, that was, that was classic. You had no idea.
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A
I had no idea. That was, that was amazing. I got a lot of emails. Did I tell you that? I got a lot of, I got a lot of emails from that episode. People being really, they were, they were really grateful about how honest I was about the challenges of parenthood. In fact, I was, I was just talking with a friend who lives in Montana and I was being open about how challenging I find parenting. And she was shocked because she was like, nobody in Montana would ever say something like that. And I do think it's true that in more work oriented cultures like New York, where I live, there's probably a bit more comfort with talking like that, but most, like people are not comfortable talking about it. But I think, I think that it's really important. Like I, you know, it'll be important for you, as you'll find out, like, parenting will be very rewarding. But also you're going to wipe a lot of asses and you're not going to enjoy any of that and that it's okay not to enjoy any of that.
- [10:32]
B
Thanks, Jason. I am, I am duly prepared to have a lot of, you know, poop in my life. Thank you so much for the warning.
- [10:42]
A
You're welcome.
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B
So what did you and Jen do you or did you have thoughts or anxiety about taking time off?
- [10:50]
A
So. Well, you know, if we rewind to the times in which we were having kids nine years ago and five and a half years ago, I in both cases was fully employed. Like, you know, like today I, I have a W2. Yeah, like, yeah, just a W2 employee that where I drew, if not 100% of my income, 90% of my income. Like that's not the case now. Now I Still am a W2, but I also have a whole lot of entrepreneurial pursuits and like make more outside than inside the company. But back then it was just that. So I had just a regular paternity leave of. I can't remember how much it was. It wasn't that much. A couple weeks. And then my wife Jen is, she is self employed, but as a freelancer. So she's really like eating what she kills. It's just like project to project to project to project. And it was interesting. Jen had more thoughts and feelings on this and her thoughts and feelings were that for her work is this dual source of purpose and deep anxiety. And she is always thinking about, I mean she drives, she derives a lot of value from her work and she loves her work and it's a place of passion for her. But also she's always thinking about what's coming next and will this project lead to another project? Am I at the end of my career? Like, Jen's always think of this, right? Like, you know, she'll write a book and then it'll be like, ugh, is this the last book that I ever get to write? Is this the last article that I ever go through? So there's a lot of anxiety. So she saw maternity leave as a opportunity to take a break from that, to just say, I have another thing to focus on. I a bigger, like, kind of weightier, I don't know, whatever. It's a more important thing. It's an actual human being. Yeah, it's an actual human being. So she was really hoping that that project of taking a break and just focusing on raising a child could eliminate some of the anxiety that she was feeling about work and just like give her a break from it. And. And I think that it did in the actual break, like the actual few weeks that she gave herself for quote unquote, maternity leave. It certainly did not in the long run. Like she still has all that work anxiety even though we, we have our children. But she really loved that and I think wanted to Find a moment to recalibrate from it. Me, on the other hand, honestly, what I did is that I used my paternity leave both times to just do other work projects. Like, I just, I just. I remember I was working on a podcast five and a half years ago, a solo podcast project, and I just. I spent basically my entire paternity leave at home when I was not helping out with the baby, just like working on that thing because I don't really know how to stop and I don't. I don't know what else I would do with my time. So.
- [13:50]
B
Yeah, because babies are. Are sleeping a lot. I mean, they're pooping and they're eating and they're their stuff. But, like, you still have time.
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A
The beginning, the very beginning is the. It's the easiest time. I mean, you will like the, The. It's really reor. The hardest part is sleeping because the baby will be waking you up constantly. But, yeah, baby's just. Baby's not doing much. It doesn't really require that much of your work. Like, you're going to sit around and be bored. Like, I have a feeling that you will. It'll be very interesting to see what you do. Do you find other things to do, like, like, Jen really committed to watching a bunch of trashy TV and just checking out and just. Just enjoying being on a break, whereas I, I didn't. I. I don't know how to do that. So I just worked on something else that wasn. What do you, like, I wonder what you are going to do when you just have, like. You have permission to have a break right now, Nicole? You have permission to have a break?
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B
No, I've never watched trashy tv. I've never, not once, not ever seen a Real Housewives show or any of that stuff. I definitely don't think I would be starting now.
- [14:55]
A
Stick around. Help Wanted. We'll be right back. Welcome back to Help Wanted. Let's get to it.
- [15:05]
B
I feel like I'm gonna be checking in or like I'm one. I'm gonna. Yeah, I don't. I can't imagine being fully checked out again. I have. I have no idea. And, you know, like, especially for Jen, for. For me, we have different physical recovery to go through, and so that's definitely something to be mindful of. I don't think I could even if I wanted to, like, record a podcast like you did. Right. Yeah, I would probably be resting and I'm finding the recordings, you know, really challenging. It's just really challenging to breathe.
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A
Yeah.
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B
All of my organs are smushed. And so that part of it I've found really challenging. So I think, like, staying on email or staying on, you know, sort of computery projects that aren't on air would. Would make sense. Like, I want to do that. I. I don't know how I could just be like, okay, all right, bye, Morgan. Yeah, figure it all out.
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A
Goodbye. Right. Can I tell you that as we were talking, I was just flashing back to this moment. This, to me, was the. I. I don't know, maybe I've shared this with you before. I can't remember. So tell me, if not when I think back on this moment of transition from not having children to having children and just like an awareness moment for me. I don't know. I don't know how to categorize this thing. I'll just. I'll just tell you what it is, which is that I remember nine years ago, Jen is pregnant with our first boy. And she is like you. She's just like, couldn't be more pregnant, you know, like, we were. We were. Who knows? We were hours to days away from. From the whole thing going. And we were sitting on our living room floor, and I don't know what we were doing. Maybe we were playing a game or something. I don't know what we were doing. And it occurred to me. And so what I said to her was, I said, everyone always says after having children for a long time, you sort of, like, can't remember life with. Without them. Not. Not like, just because, like, your life is just so different. It's like, what did I do with all my time? You know, like, you sort of forget. And I said, we are. We are living right now at the very end of before times. Like, the. The rest of our life will be divided by this moment. You know, life is divided by all sorts of moments. But, like a big one is this one. And like BK before. Kidding. Yeah, it literally is BK or Burger King. I was just like, we are in the. We are at the end of the before times. And that's a. It's a strange. I didn't know what to do with that thought, but I. I liked being aware of it. You know, like, we. Like, you're in these seasons of life, and sometimes you only realize that you moved from one season to the next. Like, in retrospect, I don't know if people in the Middle Ages were like, we are in the Middle Ages. You know, like, it's only later that you were like, those are the Middle Ages. But this is a moment.
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B
The good old days.
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A
Yeah, good old days.
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B
Like, we're in the good old days. Yeah.
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A
It's like this is. This is the end of before times. And so the more immediate questions are like, I don't. Will it. Will I be able to step away? Will I want to step away? I don't think I want it. Like, those are actually just the kind of hypothetical beginning questions of what it will actually mean to reorient your time and priorities. And everyone, Everyone does this differently. And my guess for you is you tell me if I'm right or wrong, but, like, my guess is that you'll probably do it a lot. Like I did it, like Jen did it, which is to say, like, the kids are. Are an important part of our lives, but we didn't, like, drop everything to. To have the kids replace it. And so there's this always tension about, like, where we're being pulled. And so a thing that you will need to do in a way that you kind of never did before was to just start to draw lines. And one of them was that very smart thing that you anticipated here already, which is like, if. If you were in a house where the baby was and where the work baby was, then you're getting. You're going to get, like, pulled from both of them. And so there. There needs to be separate spaces almost so that you can give each the attention that they deserve. You know, like, actually it was interesting because when you talked about that, you talked about it really from the perspective of you're working, but then the baby needs something, so you sort of have to get drawn to the baby. But, you know, it, It. It goes the other way too, right? Which is that, like, you could be with the baby but then feel drawn to work. And so you're not, like, fully present with the kid. But if you, if you create an actual separation, like the. Just the studio is somewhere else, then that's actually an interesting forcing function to. To be a little more present. And I. I'm not very good at being present, so why I'm not. I'm. I'm making things up right now. But I could. I could imagine that drawing those kinds of lines could be very good for being present.
- [19:53]
B
Yeah, I think it's like the mental health boundary became really clear as we were trying to figure out what the space was, how important that would be. And also, you know, just by nature of our business, we were having guests and stuff come. Like, we didn't have a baby, you know, Come on in.
- [20:16]
A
Yeah.
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B
So I think like having a baby and a baby nurse and stuff and, like, guests. It was just. It felt like my home that I had before I met my baby daddy was this bachelorette palace. And then he came, and then baby came. And so it changed my interpretation of what that space was and what it should be or, you know, how practical it would be to have it be both. And I realized really quickly that I don't think that's gonna be beneficial for either of the roles that I'm trying to do. Well, to your point. Yeah. Like, when you're doing one thing and you're thinking about another thing, you're not fully present or doing that thing, you might as well be doing the other thing. And so I'm sure I'm gonna feel pulled in that way and. And, like, physically, you know, I don't know, like, I'm gonna have to feed a baby. Like, we. We ended up finding an office that was in walking distance to the house. So that's nice, but still important separation, I think. And also, like, this identity idea, because I was, like, for a while, losing. I felt like my office. I ended up, you know, having my dog go to a friend because I was finding it really hard to run after her. She's like a little dog. And I was exhausted. And so I felt like this baby was, like, taking this, you know, space that was really important to my identity and, like, my. My. My studio, my dog was gone, and.
- [21:55]
A
Like, here I am just, like, with leaky boobs and a baby down to the bone. Yeah.
- [22:00]
B
And so I felt like I had to take control of that and to. And. And I think we did it in a. In a really impactful way. Like, we took what the studio was and we souped it up. Like it's a real functioning thing. It's really cool, and I'm really proud of it. And it was a forcing function. And I think it was, like, a net positive for the company, actually, because.
- [22:23]
A
You, you, you, you. I was going to make, like, some sort of weird umbilical cord cut reference here, but, like, you know, because you let it. You let it separate so close. I know it was right on. It was almost there. And I don't. I don't know how the cord. I'm just going to keep going with it. So because you separated it, because you let this work baby grow up and move into its own place now it can grow in ways that it never could have when you were treating it like a baby, I guess is totally right.
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B
Like, totally. Yeah. We could rent it out we could.
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A
Do a lot of things right, which is a really great lesson in. In change, isn't it? I mean, it's like what this really is, is just the very beginning. It will be the first of endless. Right. This is. This is like the one from before times that will then be carried over into all the decisions and after times where you're discovering that the forcing function of separating out parts of life or of having to be more intentional about how you're doing something because it now has to fit into a more complex life with a child, like all of that, or as crazy making as it can be, if you think about it in a different way, those breaks are the things that allow for growth.
- [23:41]
B
Yeah. If I didn't get pregnant, we would still have our. Our cute little, little studio in my house. I wouldn't have felt motivated to change that as quickly as I did. And when you and I were talking about it, as we were trying to think through should we create a studio? We were looking at even bigger studio spaces, like more expensive spaces, where we thought we could really rent this out and run and run a studio business. And you were like, yeah, change the cost center to a profit center. Like, I'm here for it. And that was a whole other business. We ended up, you know, finding something that was really nice and not over the top where we needed to rent it out. But, like, we could, if we wanted to, we could, you know, have other shows and other streams of income at some point. But doing that was never, like, top of the very, very long to do list until it had to be. And so, yeah, I really, you know, I think it worked out for the better. And at the time, I was really conflicted about it, but I think overall, the way the studio boundary was forced ended up being, you know, something that we could benefit from. And also that will just set me up for some postpartum good mental health. Like, I was really concerned about this identity crisis thing.
- [25:05]
A
Yeah, I want to hear more about that.
- [25:07]
B
I mean, it was just. It was just like run of the mill. Like, I. I really am concerned about, you know, postpartum, how I'm going to be feeling physically and mentally. And my husband's amazing. He's really, like, optimizing for mental health postpartum, and. And I think that's a really big thing. We've all seen, you know, women struggle with that. And I want to try to just be mindful of how that might play out and do whatever I can prophylactically or proactively to stave off, you know, any sort of postpartum depression or anxiety or. Or, you know, I don't. Whatever. Whatever happens.
- [25:50]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah. When you were talking about, like, identity, I was reminded of this moment. So share may be useful. So when I travel and do keynotes, I often do this thing where I walk people through an exercise to identify a mission statement for themselves. The idea being that we make this mistake of too closely tying our identities to the roles that we occupy or the tasks that we perform. You know, so it's like, if I go around and say, like, my identity is, I'm a magazine editor, like, the problem with that is. So it's just so easily changeable, you know, like, the roles we occupy and the tasks we perform are changeable. And so if that's what our identity is, then our identity is too easily rocked. If I'm a magazine editor as an identity, then all it takes is one guy, Bill, you know, my boss at Entrepreneur magazine, like, one guy, calling me and firing me to completely obliterate the identity. That's a bad place to be. So I encourage people to create a mission statement for themselves. Where it starts, it's a short sentence. It starts with I, every word carefully selected, because it is not anchored to something that's easily changeable. So it's the difference between I am a magazine editor and I tell stories in my own voice, right? And because I tell stories in my own voice, it's like, I can do that anywhere. You could fire me from everything, and I can still do that in any platform.
- [27:12]
B
So it's like the IRA of identity. You can take it anywhere you go.
- [27:18]
A
Yeah. Nicely done. Nicely done. So I gave this little talk, as I often do, and I was at a YPO event in Chicago, and afterwards, this woman came up to me. People often come up to me afterwards and they tell me with a mission statement that they came up with. And it's usually stuff like, I help teams achieve greatness or I solve the most complex problems. They're. They're great. I love hearing them. But this woman says something I'd never heard before. She said that she had built a consultancy, like a very successful consultancy. And then she had her first child, and she wanted to be very involved in the child and raising the child. So she decided to just hit pause on the consultancy, just like, just pause on the business, pause all business, and just stay home and raise the child. And although she is finding the act of being with her child and raising her child to be very personally rewarding, it has given her an identity crisis because she does not think of herself as a stay at home mom. That is just not how she identifies, that's not what she would ever say of herself, even though that is very technically what she is right now. And she didn't know how to manage that or how to, how to create a coherence in that. And my mission statement thing prompted this thought. She said her mission now is I help people become the best versions of themselves because that applies to the consulting work that she was doing and it also applies to raising the child. And that was a really helpful unlock for her to see that the thing that she's doing now is consistent with the thing that she was doing before and is consistent with whatever it else that she does next. And I really loved that. And, and so I, I like offer you that as a way of thinking like you'll, this will absolutely change some, some way in which you understand yourself. And it has to because you've oriented yourself so much around work and now there is, that's not to say that you won't do that in the future, but you will now have another thing to orient yourself around in some way or another. And so to bring those things into coherence in some way, which I'm certainly not perfect at at all, but to aspire to I think is to give yourself an understand, like a better understanding of your identity instead of shaking your identity.
- [29:51]
B
Yeah. Oh, I love that. Yeah. I or like to, to educate people whether they're babies or grown ass adults. It's interesting because I tried to do some of those exercises a couple of years ago when it really wasn't looking like I was going to have kids. I'm jumping into the maternity party like at the 11th hour, you know, 59th minute. Like I'm really, you know, elevator being like, don't smush it, let's get in. So you know, I just didn't think that it was going to happen and I really wanted to be comfortable with it. And you know, I thought like, realistically my, my window was closing and I hadn't found my person and all of that. And so I did some real work around like what is my role as a mother on this planet without human children. And so like I have these journals that I, you know, had tried to articulate this idea that I can feel like I'm mothering or like teaching people or like mentoring people or acting in a motherly way, having like actual babies. And so you know, I tried to do that in reverse where I was like, how can I use the mother role in the work role and be okay with being a, you know, stay at home workaholic instead of being a mom. So.
- [31:28]
A
Interesting.
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B
So, yeah, I think I can. I can maybe smush. Smush the identity of that with this new identity, whatever that is together. But I am really worried about, you know, how I'm gonna find the time in the day, because I literally had to put on my calendar on Monday. We. We ended up squeezing in some more recordings that I was like, must shower. So, you know, I don't. I don't know how am I gonna bathe another human and myself and do all the work? We're gonna find out, but I'm pretty concerned about that.
- [32:07]
A
Yeah, well, I feel like I can.
- [32:09]
B
Barely take care of myself, but, you know, I don't really have a choice but to keep another human alive.
- [32:15]
A
However, you know, the answer is that it just happens. You just kind of grow into it. And then also, some days you also just don't shower. That is also true. You just don't. But, you know, also, it doesn't matter because whatever. I. I mean, look, I. I really like that. That is a. That's a really cool thing. I didn't know that you had gone through that first exercise and that you're now almost doing it in reverse, but I think that the real answer is that like anything in life, any big important thing in life, you don't actually. There's no way to actually plan for it. The best you can do is kind of like march into it with open eyes and open ears and then you just kind of figure it out. Stick around. Help Wanted will be right back. Welcome back to Help Wanted. Let's get to it. People have asked me, like, for advice on, like, oh, how do you know? How do you balance this? Or how do you. And the answer is that you don't start by running. You know, you, like, start in the. Well, I was gonna say baby steps, but it's just before baby steps, before the baby can even take a step, baby, baby poops. And you just work your way into it and you end up working your way into self discovery and you work your way into growth and like, whatever comes next is gonna be awesome. Not that you were asking for my advice, is it?
- [33:47]
B
Because every time we've talked about this before, I was pregnant, you never said it was awesome.
- [33:53]
A
Well, but here's the thing. Here's the thing is, like, okay, there's this podcast called the Longest Shortest Time, which I think is the best name for a parenting podcast. You could have ever come up with. The thing is that I am. I am often very frustrated about, like, life as a parent, but also I have an awesome life. And I think that's the thing that I'm trying to, like, reconcile. I like everything that I. That I've built here. You know, I mean, I have a. I have a great marriage, and I do great work, and I'm very proud of that work. And that work keeps growing, and it keeps making me more money, and it keeps being more satisfying. And although I am. I am often frustrated with, like, parenting stuff also. I have great kids. Like, they're great kids, and I can be annoyed at them, but also I spend time with them that I enjoy. And, like, I guess that's just kind of life. Like, I think both are true. Both are true. Like, it's like, all of it is true at the same time, I think is the answer. That's the reason why I really hate the parenting talk that is all oriented around how great everything is. Because it's not true. Like. Like, so many things can be true at the same time. I can be really frustrated by a lot of things and then also appreciate them. And I can say that, like, this is a pain in the ass, but also that, like, the outcome is awesome. Like, all. All of it can be true. So it's more fun, frankly to me and more cathartic to me when I have the sympathetic ear of a friend who can be like, yes, that sucks. It's more interesting to me to talk about the challenges of parenthood than to talk about the delights of parenthood. Like, I actually find talking about the delights of parenthood to be completely boring. Like, I never want to talk about it, but, like, that's not to say that they don't exist. You know, it's just like they're. They're mixed in with all these other things. And I feel like I have to spend more time grappling with the hard stuff because that's. That's where my. Those are the knots that I have to untie. Whereas the awesome. Like, the. The awesome stuff we take for granted. Something that somebody told me at some point, and I can't remember the context, but they told me. Is that, like, just a remarkable thing that humans do is that we. We can return back to a normal state for ourselves, right? So, like, if something is really exciting, it's exciting for a bit, and then it kind of returns to whatever our normalness is. And if something's really sad, it's sad for a bit and then we return back to normal. Like we just have a good ability to do that and, and yes, things can throw that off and some things are like too traumatic and it's hard to get back to normal. But like generally speaking that's what we do. And, and I find that true for myself in basically all circumstances. If I'm really excited about something, it's great. But also like the excitement wears off pretty, pretty soon. And like even the worst things that have happened in my life, I have, I told myself, you will return to normal. Like I, you've, I've seen it happen enough times that it will, it will come back to normal and it always does. So when things are really high, I don't have to like grapple with them. It's not like, oh, what is this highness? And what do I do with it? But like when, when, when I'm feeling frustrated, I do have to grapple with it because I, because that's when I really want to return to normal. And that's I guess probably why I like if I'm, if I'm too self assess myself here. I think that's why I end up talking a lot about like it, about parenting like that. But you know, the end result is the same which is like you build your normal and the normal is the thing that matters. And like in a way that's kind of what we've been talking about here. This, this episode is like what is normal? And then what is the, like what is the new version of normal that you will kind of establish and always be returning to?
- [37:35]
B
I mean, I don't know. I, I feel like most people talk about the negative stuff. I'm actually, I've struggled to find the positive stories. I now, I mean now I'm in like the, you know, splash zone, I guess of birth. So I really want to only consume positive birth stories, not, you know, the horror stories. But it 10 I just tend to see on social media or, or in mainstream media. You know, nobody likes hearing somebody that's like, yeah, I had a great birth. Like it was, it was fine. It wasn't that bad.
- [38:11]
A
Oh, the actual act, the actual act of it. Yeah. We don't report stories about like the, the dog woke up and had a, had a nice bowl of food and went to sleep. Yeah. Like we, we report when the dog, something terrible happened to the dog. So you know, most people have a totally good experience and then it's just not worth talking about because it was a totally normal experience.
- [38:30]
B
Yeah. And then the, the people that didn't hate on them, too. And so nobody wants to. Yeah. Share that. So.
- [38:37]
A
Yeah. I mean, I'll tell you the call. The story with Colin was really funny. Colin being my. My youngest, which was that we. We went in, Jen went into labor, and it was the day before my dad's birthday. And so the. The big question was, is Colin going to be born for or on my dad's birthday? And we were, like, waiting around and waiting around and waiting around and waiting around. And, like, this baby is just not comment. And so at like, 11:30pm, the nurses do, like, a final check and they're like, yeah, this is going to be a tomorrow baby. And so they tell us to get some shut eye because tomorrow will be a big day. And so, like, we turn the lights off. Jen is in the birthing bed or whatever, and I go and, like, set up this terrible cot in the room. And nobody's sad for you, Jason? No, nobody's sad for me. I'm not. I did not expect anyone to be sad for me. But for whatever throw. It was a terrible cottage. And then we go, like, lights out. And then truly, like, five minutes later, there's beeping, and then suddenly everyone's rushing into the room and they're like, this baby's coming out right now. And then the band, he was out. Like, it was the craziest thing.
- [39:44]
B
Oh, and then we had a baby on Roy's birthday.
- [39:48]
A
No, it was like. It was like, minutes before. No, like, so it ended up being the day. It was the day before he was born. The day before my dad, like, by minutes. And that was fine. It was a totally great experience.
- [39:57]
B
Except that really didn't want to sleep in that cot. I don't know what you're inducing.
- [40:05]
A
This baby has got to come out because I got to get off of this cot.
- [40:10]
B
Oh, Jason. So what am I doing for maternity leave?
- [40:14]
A
Well, what. What are you doing? What am I doing? Well, here's.
- [40:17]
B
Yeah, what are you doing? What am I. I don't know what I'm doing.
- [40:19]
A
Okay, well, you're.
- [40:20]
B
We're figuring it out.
- [40:21]
A
Right.
- [40:21]
B
So you're going to feel comfortable with the fact that there's not, like, a clear structure.
- [40:25]
A
Yes.
- [40:25]
B
I think, like, shaming myself and being like, I must come up with, like, you know, and. And that should work and does work for a lot of people. And that's important advice to, like, create a clear boundary and create what the plan is and to create, like, here's the time that I'm going to be off and here's what to do. And I think I really, you know, I thought that I should try to do that because that's what I would tell other people to do. But I don't have that. And, you know, I think that's fine. I just need to be okay with the fact that no plan is the plan right now. No clear plan.
- [41:02]
A
I love that. That's great. Well, okay, on that note, let's talk about the no plan is the plan for Help wanted for a moment. So you're going to disappear. Please, please do. Because I can't handle the guilt of.
- [41:16]
B
Broadcasting live from cs, Lord.
- [41:20]
A
I mean, Jesus, given how pregnant you are, there is like, a at least 50% chance that you're going to go into labor while we're recording this episode. So you're going to disappear for some time and, you know, discover the plan and do whatever. And I am going to do the following. I'm going to be hosting a bunch of solo episodes. I'm going to bring in some guest co hosts, which can't hold a candle to Nicole Lapin, but we'll try. And we're just gonna stumble our way through it until. Until you're back. The. The seat. The seat remains warm. And I'm. I'll miss you. And I'm excited to.
- [41:52]
B
We'll have another co host.
- [41:54]
A
Yeah, that's true. All right, you ready for it?
- [41:58]
B
No. Also, I can't breathe.
- [42:02]
A
All right, well, before times end now. And we'll see on the other side. So this is the end.
- [42:09]
B
This is however much Help wanted.
- [42:12]
A
This is it. This is BK Help Wanted. And. And after this will be. Will be ak. You're gonna be. You're gonna be a whole. A whole. Say a whole other same person.
- [42:25]
B
That's right. All right.
- [42:27]
A
Yeah.
- [42:27]
B
All right, BK Out.
- [42:29]
A
All right. BK Out. Help Wanted is a production of Money News Network. Help Wanted is hosted by me, Jason.
- [42:36]
B
Pfeiffer, and me, Nicole Lapin. Our executive producer is Morgan Lavoy. Do you want some help? Email our helpline@helpwantedoneynewsnetwork.com for the chance to have some of your questions answered on the show. And follow us on Instagram, MoneyNews and TikTok MoneyNewsNetwork for exclusive content and to see our beautiful faces. Maybe a little dance.
- [42:57]
A
Oh, I didn't sign up for that.
- [42:58]
B
All right, well, talk to you soon.