"I Don't Want To Be the CEO of My Home Anymore. Help!"

Summary

Help Wanted — "I Don't Want To Be the CEO of My Home Anymore. Help!"

Podcast: Help Wanted (Money News Network)
Hosts: Jason Feifer & Nicole Lapin
Date: May 12, 2026

---

Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the complexities of modern parenting while working—particularly the emotional labor, household management, division of labor, and identity shifts that come with raising children and running a household (often while also running a business). Nicole, newly back from maternity leave (and having experienced an unexpected house fire), seeks real-life answers and support from Jason and his wife Jen on how to redistribute the endless “CEO of the home” responsibilities equitably. The tone is honest, humorous, and at times, exhausted.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Unrelenting Nature of Parenting

[05:04 - 07:59]

• Nicole opens up about how parenting is "just so tired," comparing it to endless jet lag.
• Jason acknowledges that unlike work, parenting is “unrelenting”—there are no weekends or after hours.
• Nicole shares the mounting cost—both monetary and personal—of hiring help to try to “buy back” some time, but questions if the time saved is worth the stress and money spent.

“It’s the time that you’re paying to get your time back, but then worrying if the ROI of that time back is worth what you just gave your wallet to a person to do.”
— Nicole Lapin [06:06]

2. The Messy Reality of Identity Shift

[08:01 - 11:50]

• Nicole reflects on her attempts to separate work and home life, which were derailed by her house fire.
• The hosts discuss how creating physical and mental separation is a privilege—and sometimes impossible under stress.
• Jason explores whether parenting truly becomes part of one’s core identity, sharing a generational story from his grandmother about how we always feel like our “past selves” inside, even as our roles change.

“That idea has haunted me... there will be this disassociation between how I feel and understand myself and what I am to everyone else.”
— Jason Feifer [13:37]

3. Cognitive Load, "Mom Brain," and Cognitive Offloading

[16:22 - 19:47]

• Nicole introduces the concept of “cognitive offloading” (writing things down, delegating, routines) to reduce mental strain, noting that “mom brain” is a real neuroplastic process and not just a stereotype.
• Both hosts share how new or chaotic routines overload their brains, making daily functioning challenging.
• Nicole reveals the pressure she feels as the “primary parent” others turn to for every household or baby decision.

“Right now... we’re both working from different areas of this Airbnb. Naturally, anyone who’s helping with our daughter is coming to me for any direction... I still feel I am the go-to person for all things baby.”
— Nicole Lapin [18:47]

4. Gender Roles & the Invisible Labor

[19:26 - 27:42]

• Jason and Jen (his wife) join to talk through the frustration of household help (sitters, nannies) routinely approaching the mom, regardless of who is actually available.
• There’s open acknowledgment that division of labor discussions are ongoing and imperfect, even in households with progressive values and equal earning power.
• Jen points out how playdate planning, family scheduling, and the “mental load” of parenting falls to moms by default—and how that often remains resistant to change, despite intention.
• Nicole expresses hesitation about confronting their nanny directly due to inherent vulnerability.

“I need to get better at clear communication... because it feels like maybe she’s going to hate me or something and then take it out on the kid. I don’t know.”
— Nicole Lapin [28:13]

5. Practical Solutions and Real-World Limits

[21:25 - 35:16]

• Jason shares solutions like group parent text threads for playdates and clear division of specific household tasks (with mixed results).
• Jen highlights that often, new systems simply add more “busy work” and that defaulting to established roles is easier, but not always fair or efficient.
• The trio agrees that the real solution may lie in explicit delegation, consistent communication, and learning to accept the messiness and inequality that occasionally persists.

“If we’re both on the text thread... this is stressing me out. I don’t want to do this. So I’m gonna just sit there on the text. I need you to do it so that it takes the stress away from me.”
— Jen [34:04]

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On losing control and identity:
  “Everything I tried to do to safeguard my mental health is, like, such a joke now thinking about it... all this stuff was happening and it’s hilarious because we’re still at an Airbnb and just trying to survive.”
  — Nicole Lapin [09:20]

• On parent/worker multitasking:
  “At six years old, the kid can half wipe themselves. So he does the first couple wipes, but then I gotta get in there, bring it home.”
  — Jason Feifer [24:16]

• On gendered assumptions:
  “There’s an assumption that the mom holds more information, which is usually Jason knows where anything is.”
  — Jen [26:13]

• On hopeful resignation:
  “If you guys haven’t figured it out, I don’t have a lot of hope.”
  — Nicole Lapin [27:20]

• On the emotional labor of “saying no” as a mom:
  “I feel like in my head, they’re judging me because I’m a mom, and I’m like, okay, I’m unavailable for this baby.”
  — Nicole Lapin [30:48]

---

Key Timestamps

• 05:04 – Nicole’s exhaustion and Jason frames parenting as “unrelenting”
• 08:01 – Nicole recounts her failed plans for work/home separation
• 11:31 – Nicole discusses the unexpected bond and “mom brain”
• 13:37 – Jason’s anecdote about his grandmother’s internal identity
• 16:22 – The challenge of cognitive load and offloading
• 18:47 – Nicole as the default household manager
• 19:26 – Jason and Jen discuss defaulting to moms for childcare info
• 21:25 – Attempted solutions: split text threads, specific delegated tasks
• 24:16 – Parenting realness: mid-podcast poop interruptions
• 26:13 – Jen on gendered household information flow
• 28:13 – Nicole’s anxiety about asserting authority with caregivers
• 34:04 – Jen’s plea for true delegation to relieve mental load

---

Conclusions and Takeaways

• Modern parenting, especially when both parents work, remains full of “invisible labor” that is tough to redistribute.
• Cognitive and emotional loads can be reduced, but solutions (like shared text threads or role assignments) often require constant adjustment and communication.
• Assumptions—by partners, external caretakers, and even parents themselves—about gender and responsibility persist, even among well-intentioned couples.
• Building a more equitable household is a work-in-progress, requiring vulnerability, explicit boundaries, and the ability to laugh at the chaos.
• You are not alone if you feel overwhelmed by the ‘CEO’ responsibilities at home—and if even podcast hosts with years of work-life coverage can’t crack it, grace and patience are essential.

---

For the full, hilarious, and validating experience—including butt-wiping interruptions and “mom brain” science—listen to the episode.

Transcript

[Nicole Lapin]

We've had some big wins at my company this year. The kind of wins that mean it's time to expand. Bringing new people onto the team isn't something I take lightly. These people are going to help shape the content that goes out into the world with my brand and my name attached to it. So when I'm hiring, I need to make sure my job listing lands in front of the best possible people. Not just good, but the best. Which means this is a job for Indeed Sponsored Jobs. Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Less stress, less time, more results when you need the right person to cut through the chaos. This is a job for Indeed Sponsored Jobs and listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit to help get your job the premium status it deserves@ Indeed Indeed.com podcast just go to Indeed.com podcast right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Indeed.com podcast terms and conditions apply. This isn't your job. This is a job for Indeed Sponsored Jobs. I travel a lot for work.

When I have to get off a

flight and go straight to a meeting, an airport lounge makes all the difference. I can get something to eat and clean up a bit.

That's why I was so excited to

see that Chime has added airport lounge access to its travel card. But that's not even the best perk. They offer the Chime Travel Concierge to help schedule flights, book hotels and plan entertainment on your next trip. I can totally see how useful that will be on our upcoming big trip. Chime is changing the way people bank. They offer the most rewarding fee free banking. Chime members can benefit from up to $1,150 in annual rewards fee free. They're not like traditional old banks that charge you overdraft and monthly fees built for you. Not the 1%. Chime is not just smarter banking. It is the most rewarding way to bank. Join the millions who are already banking fee free today. Head to chime.comhelpwanted that is chime.com helpwanted it only takes a few minutes to sign up.

[Chime Representative]

Chime is a fintech, not a bank. Banking services from MyPay and ChimeCard provided by Chime's bank partners. Optional products and services may have fees or charges. Stated annual percentage yield on cash back for Chime prime only. No minimum balance required. Checking account ranking based on a J.D. power survey published October 20, 2025. For more information on APY rates, MyPay Spot Me and travel perks go to Chime.com disclosures so now that I'm a

[Nicole Lapin]

mom, I find myself wanting to be intentional about the way I live, about the way I eat, about the way I take care of my body. But because I am constantly moving around, I am always looking for an on the go protein plant based snack that satisfies me. And now I have found the exact one that helps me live intentionally too. Mosh Protein Bars Mosh, which you might have heard about on Shark Tank or on Oprah's Favorite Things, was founded by Maria Shriver and her son Patrick Schwarzenegger

with a mission to spark a conversation

about brain health through food education and research. After Maria's father was diagnosed with Alzheimer's,

they set out to create something bigger

than just a protein bar mash. Protein bars are made with ingredients that support your brain and your body, like Ashwagandha, Lion's Mane and Omega 3s Plus. Mosh is the first and only food

brand boosted with Cognosin. It's a premium form of City Choline

that helps support focus, memory and mental clarity and they taste amazing with nine delicious flavors. My personal favorite is the Peanut Butter Chocolate Chip. There is no better combo I think in the world than peanut butter and chocolate clip. I dare you to tell me I'm wrong. And now you can save on Mosh

while making your wellness routine effortless.

Get 25 off and free shipping on your first 15 count variety pack and then 20 for life on your monthly subscription. Head to mosh life.com help wanted that's Mosh Life M-O S H L I F E.com help wanted and subscribe today to get 25 off your first variety pack and 20 off your monthly subscription with the code help. Help wanted. That's 25% off your first pack and 20% off your subscription of Brain Boosting bars delivered straight to your door. Start building Brain Health into your everyday with Mosh bars. Thanks to Mosh for sponsoring this episode.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

This is Help Wanted, the show that makes your work work for you. I'm Jason Pfeiffer, Editor in Chief of

[Nicole Lapin]

Entrepreneur Magazine, and I'm money expert Nicole Lapin. On Tuesdays, Jason and I answer the helpline and help callers solve their work problems.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

And on Thursdays, I give you one way to improve your work and build a career or company you love.

[Nicole Lapin]

And it starts now. I'm just so tired. I'm just so tired.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Jason, I was going to ask how parenting is going, but I think you just gave me the Answer.

[Nicole Lapin]

I know. And everybody warned me and told me, but like a jet lag tired. It's like your skin hurts. It's like when I did the morning show. It's just like you never are not tired.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

That's because the thing about parenting that is unlike anything else in your life is the unrelenting ness of it. At work, you have the weekends and then you have after hours.

[Nicole Lapin]

Not really either. But you have humans that can talk

[Jason Pfeiffer]

in a way rationalize. The parenting is literally all the time. It does not. And that would be fine if all you had to do was keep a child alive, which is technically all you have to do. But the problem is that you also have a life to live and a business business to run. So keeping the child alive is also a job that has to get outsourced to other people. Didn't you just lose those people? Oh well, you lost your house.

[Nicole Lapin]

That's.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

It's just that we have covered, we've

[Nicole Lapin]

covered it so much. But it's really like a full time job and hiring for the household. I wrote about this in my second book before I had kids. What was I like? I had no qualifications to be doing that. Being the so called CEO of your household, running your house like a business in theory is probably the way to go. Running a business in general is hard. Running a household also hard, but like different hard. And I don't even know how to articulate it yet because I am so tired. But hiring this proverbial village to raise a child and then paying everybody. I have to just give my wallet. I'm like, somebody walked in the door, please just take my wallet. And also time. And it's like this calculus that I'm too tired to figure out. But it's the time that you're paying to get your time back, but then worrying if the ROI of that time back is worth what you just gave your wallet to a person to do. I don't know. Yeah, you warned me.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

I warned you. We have record of it. So we have done many episodes on juggling parenting and working for a while that was just me bitching about parenting because I have two kids ages 9 and 6 and you asking questions and clearly not believing me. Then you went on and had a kid. We had this episode. It was, I think the last episode that you and I did before you went on maternity leave, which was like you gazing into the future and thinking about what kind of identity shift you will go through. Because until then, work had been your baby, the company had been your baby. And now you have an actual baby. How old?

[Nicole Lapin]

Four months old.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Four months old. So now's a fun time to revisit this. Obviously, maternity leave did not go as planned because you had the house fire and you've had to deal with that along with everything else. But even if it's possible to set that aside and just think about, like, how you think of yourself or how you feel like you're managing yourself with this extra human in your life, what you thinking?

[Nicole Lapin]

It's so funny to think about that conversation, because that whole conversation was like, here I am making space between my home and my office where I can walk to and have separation from baby life, home life and context.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

For those who don't remember, you used to record out of your home. You had the second bedroom, was your studio, but then you had a child that was going to take over that second bedroom. So you were.

[Nicole Lapin]

You put the child somewhere else. You had to put the child.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

You have to have the child at your home. It's so annoying, but it is true. And so you were then creating this physical distance between work life and home life, which you didn't have before, which I don't have. I'm working from home and so everything's like a big mush. And we were talking about how healthy that can be because you'll have this separation. And then that, of course, didn't happen.

[Nicole Lapin]

Yeah, that didn't pan out. It was such a good idea. It existed for two weeks. I took Sloane, my daughter, to the studio one day. I have a photo of her there. And then when she was two weeks old, the fire. And so those plans went bye bye. And I had had no plans. Everything I tried to do to safeguard my mental health is like such a joke now thinking about it, because I tried so hard. I was like, I'm going to be really thoughtful about this separation and I'm going to try to safeguard the best I can around this identity crisis thing, because the area that was home to my work baby is now home to my real baby and she is taking over this area. But then I'm going to feel sucked into all of this and have no identity. My husband has a whole other office. So all this stuff was happening and it's hilarious because we're still at an Airbnb and just trying to survive.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Yeah.

[Nicole Lapin]

So it's like something that I almost feel is a privilege to think about. I don't even know what my identity is. I'm still trying to just get through the day. And so I think this idea of Separation and identity was such a privileged problem for me to have.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

That's interesting. Do you. This is going to sound either like a stupid question or you will get what I'm saying. So we'll find out. Do you. When you think of yourself, think of a mom.

[Nicole Lapin]

So interesting. I love this human so much. Like, it truly is crazy. And I hate the cliches and everybody's oh my God. Like it's your heart but not in your body and somewhere else. And like you're just gonna have this whole other love that you've never known. And you tell me from a dad's perspective because I actually don't see the same bond with my husband. Like, he loves her. She's cute. All the things. But unless like I love this little mush head and. And there's something about it sounds weird, but like smelling her head, like I get oxytocin from it. It's a weird.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

People love smelling babies heads.

[Nicole Lapin]

There's such a cute smell. Jason. It's really. And I think when it's your b, you there's something you needed. And I feel so bonded to her and like I don't want to be away from her, but I feel the same. Otherwise I have a shit storm. Not. Sorry, Rabbi.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Yes.

[Nicole Lapin]

I'm going to really try not to swear. Being a mom, maybe it's not part of my brand anymore. I have this crap storm of so much other stuff that I feel like physically, except my tailbone will never be the same. I have gone through so much heightened stress. The same size fits right now. I feel physically the same. I'm not a whole new mom version myself. Yeah, I didn't. I didn't emerge from this wearing mom jeans. Oh, the mom jeans are in right now. So I don't know. What I'm trying to say is that I feel so bonded to this little baby mush. But I also feel like another big job that I have. It's like another big project that I have. And I'm like, now my to do list just got way longer. But everything else on the to do list needs to still get done in the same way.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Yeah.

[Nicole Lapin]

If that makes sense.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

It does. That's generally how I experience parenting Is thinking of it as a job. And I don't mean that in a judgmenty way. The way that some people might hear job and think like that means bad. I actually just mean that I process it like a series of tasks when my 6 year old is freaking out about something and I've got to handle that. I almost don't think of it as me, because I don't think of me as. As a person who has children that I have to take care of. For context, my grandma. So Nana Muriel, who Nana Muriel. She was wonderful. Passed away a number of years ago. But anyway, she lived into her 90s. She told me, and then recently realized she told my sister the same thing. Said it to each other at some point, and realized that we both were haunted by this thing that Nana Muriel had said. So now I'm going to tell you, and it'll haunt you. And the thing was that she said she would sometimes look at herself in the mirror and be shocked to see an elderly woman looking back at her, because she doesn't feel like an elderly woman. She's looking through the same set of eyes as when she was a teenager, young and carefree. That idea has haunted me because it means that one day, hopefully, if I live that long, I will experience that same thing. Right? There will be this disassociation between how I feel and understand myself and what I am to everyone else or what I'm doing. And that's a weird thing that parenting has given me a glimpse into, because I used to see people with kids, and I was just like, that's a parent. But now I have kids, and that is not the primary way I understand myself. When I have to be in parent mode, I don't feel like a parent. I feel like me, the guy who used to go to ska shows in the 90s who now somehow is dealing with this kid who's screaming and, wait a second. This kid is mine? How the hell did that happen? I feel that almost every single time. That's why I asked if you think of yourself as a mom, because I understand that I'm a dad, but it's not the primary way in which I orient myself. And that has, like, its pluses and minuses. It maybe makes me a little more frustrated or less. Less patient with the kids than maybe I would be if I was like, I am a dad. I'm gonna be a dad right now. But at the same time, it helps me balance a lot of identities all at once and think of them as tasks I have chosen and am now performing.

[Nicole Lapin]

Yeah, it's like a nesting doll of yourself, but a dude. A nesting dude doll. Like, the ska guy is in there. All of these former years and former selves build on each other, and they never go away. And Nana Muriel had a whole lifetime of nesting dolls that brought her to her 90s. And I think that even if you felt more like you identified with dad, you probably still feel frustrated. I don't feel like I look in the mirror and I'm like, that's a mom lady. I carried this child. I don't feel like this mega shift. Like, all of a sudden, when I birthed her, I wasn't like, mom vibes. The only thing is, I feel so naturally protective of her and want to smell her head all the time. If you asked me for a list of things that I am, I haven't changed my Instagram bio to Mom Wife,

[Jason Pfeiffer]

which a lot of people do, I would tell you this would stop me if I told you this in the episode just before you went on maternity leave. But also, maybe you're not even going to remember that, because mom brain, that is so real. It's like a crazy additional cognitive load. I recently learned the phrase cognitive offloading. Writing something down so you don't have to remember it is cognitive offloading. That is not a thing that you need to spend mental energy on and we really love as humans, cognitive offloading. And for very good reason. There's really interesting research that when you do cognitive offloading, you are able to think clearer and reach answers faster. These interesting studies where they'll ask people to remember a bunch of stuff and then also to perform some task, and those people will perform the task much more poorly. The other set who were given a bunch of information and allowed to write it down and then perform a task. It's interesting, right? Our brains have limited capacity. The reason I'm saying that is I would guess I'm not a neuroscientist, but I would guess that the kind of thing that you go through in that early parenting stage is that there is now so much more to remember, to learn, and to pay attention to. The patterns of life are not settled. And so your brain is just overwhelmed. There isn't the capacity for all the stuff that there used to be.

[Nicole Lapin]

The cognitive offloading is often talked about in entrepreneurial circles around streamlining. What you wear, like Steve Jobs black turtleneck.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

The idea being take that decision away from yourself so you don't have to think about it every morning. If you just have an outfit or closet full of the same exact thing and you know you're gonna put that on, then you've cognitively offloaded that decision and you can get to the day faster.

[Nicole Lapin]

Yeah. And also, mom brain is actually a neuroplastic process that involves the gray matter in your brain. The brain tissue responsible for processing information undergoes changes during and after Pregnancy. This change, characterized by reduced gray matter volume in certain areas, is often associated with enhanced social cognition, maternal attachment. So while some gray matter loss is observed, it's not necessarily a sign of brain decline, but rather an adaptive response to help the brain prepare for demands of motherhood. So basically, some of the gray matter,

like legit, shrinks and it takes about

[Jason Pfeiffer]

two years, your brain has shrunk, is what you're telling me, which tracks. Sweet.

[Nicole Lapin]

Totally true.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

That sounds right.

[Nicole Lapin]

But yeah, the cognitive load is super real. I think that cognitive offloading is such an important discussion that you should also have with your partner. I think that for me, right now, in our not ideal home situation, we're both working from different areas of this Airbnb. Naturally, anyone who's helping with our daughter is coming to me for any direction, no matter what, no matter if we're working the same amount or if we're producing the same amount of money for the family. I still feel I am the go to person for all things baby.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

You need to talk to Jen, my wife, about that. That is a conversation we're having a lot at home. Our nannies will always go to Jen for a question about the kids. My parents also will always go to Jen for a question about the kids. This drives Jen crazy. I totally appreciate that it drives her crazy. I'm in a funny position because it's hard to train people otherwise. Jen sometimes will tell Sandra, who watches the kids in the afternoon, will tell Sandra to ask me for something. Jen will be like, I am on calls for the rest of the afternoon, so if you need something, ask Jason. And Sandra will still call for Jen. Then I will sometimes hear that and scramble out of my office to try to intercept it and get involved so that Jen doesn't have to deal with it. But sometimes I don't know the answer. Jen knows the answer. Like, where is this? Or where do the kids need to be? She knows the answer. Then I feel really bad. Most recently, Jen was telling me that she is exhausted by having to be the one to plan all the play dates for the kids. Which gets. It gets more complicated as the kids get older because then they have these social dynamics. These social dynamics are constantly changing. And like, our older son is friends with kids one day and then not the next day. Chen, the one like text, texting all these parents and then it's all your social anxiety, but now another layer of it because now it's somebody else's social life and their social anxiety. I gotta text these parents, but these parents are gonna get Annoyed, and it's awful. But I don't entirely know how to absorb this from her. First of all, because I'm traveling a lot. I was away Tuesday to Thursday. This week we're talking on a Friday, and Jen was trying to make playdates for the weekend. And I guess I could have done it, but I was in transit. Also, she's the one who has all the contacts. And anyway, these are sounding like excuses because they're all totally overcomeable. And it's true, they are. But it's like when you're in the slipstream of life and parenting, you end up defaulting to these roles that Jen doesn't love and that I feel bad about, but that neither of us have exactly figured out how to solve for. And that is what you are now experiencing.

[Nicole Lapin]

Would have. It just gave me the cheat sheet.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

So we figured out some things. So one of them is with families where the kids make a lot of plans. We've agreed with the families that planning will happen on a text thread with all four parents. And that way everyone is informed and engaged on the conversation. So it's not just the moms texting each other. The dads are on that text thread. And I think that's really good. So that is a good solution. Another one is there's a Saturday coming up. Jason, figure out what to do with the kids. Jen has to set that in motion. But that's good or off her list. She's delegated. There's cognitive load to delegating, but not the same as having to execute yourself. So those are some of the solutions we found. The other one is to be mindful. Sometimes you can't split every task, but if you at least know whose tasks are what and you stick to that, then everyone feels like they're pulling weight. Some of my tasks are cleaning the dishes, dealing with trash, recycling, and composting. Like all the stuff that has to get lugged everywhere.

[Nicole Lapin]

Composting or. So Brooklyn.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Yes, I know, it's totally Brooklyn in municipal compost. It's wonderful. So that's what we've fallen into. But yeah, what you're saying is true and sucks.

[Nicole Lapin]

It sucks. It's real. I was on our first recording back and tiny little office space and most of the time my husband is using it for his calls and I'm just trying to makeshift a part of the couch or something until we get into a space. I think it was our first recording back and I. I don't have a massive, beautiful setup yet, but I have a computer that I'M talking to a light.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Yeah, you look like you're. I haven't been to your Airbnb, but it looks to me like you're sitting on a couch. And I assume there's a table in front of you with a computer on it.

[Nicole Lapin]

If somebody walked by, they'd be like, oh, that lady is doing a podcasting zoom. Something we don't know. And the door is close. I don't know if you even remember this or if Morgan remembers this, but it's probably on tape that we had to cut out of an episode. But I hear a knock on the door and I had told Sharon, who's watching our daughter, I'm going to do a recording in the office. Jarrett is in the couch corner, and I hear the little knock and I keep trying to ignore it and then it's loud and I'm like, oh, gosh, something happened. That's where your brain goes. So I'm like. I stop mid sentence and I'm like,

[Jason Pfeiffer]

I do remember this.

[Nicole Lapin]

Come in. Just like, I didn't want to bother Jared. He was on calls. But we're having a play date.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

But you. You can be bothered.

[Nicole Lapin]

Totally, right? It was so cuckoo. Crazy bananas. I was like, wait a minute. What? How do I just take a moment and do work uninterrupted if I can be interrupted. Anyway.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Oh, hold on. What you need? Can it wait? No, this is appropriate. A brief update, which is that Colin, 6 year old, has to poop. And actually, isn't this nice? He interrupted me instead of Jen. I don't know where Jen is. At six years old, the kid can half wipe themselves. So he does the first couple wipes, but then I gotta. I gotta get in there, bring it home. So. Yeah, I'll be right back. Stick around. Help Wanted. We'll be right back. Welcome back to Help Wanted. Let's get to it. Look who I found.

[Nicole Lapin]

Hi, Jen. Save me.

[Jen]

Nicole, first of all, congratulations.

[Nicole Lapin]

Thank you.

[Jen]

On the baby. And I know the last six months has been like a total fuck show, but thank you.

[Nicole Lapin]

It's so funny when you were going to deal with the poop. Jason, the same thing happened just now. There was a knock on the door and she was like, oh, what's the box on the counter? Did you order paper towels? This is our nanny who's clearly, I'm doing things.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

But you mean the same thing happened? She came to ask you about it instead of Jared?

[Nicole Lapin]

Yeah.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

This is why I brought Jen in. Because while I was wiping a butt, I called down to Jen and I Said Nicole. And I have drifted into a conversation that I feel like you will have lots to say about everything. Jen, one of the things that Nicole asked is if we have come up with any solutions to diverting the expectations all from you. And I was embarrassed that I don't think that we have great solutions for this. So, classic case here is that somebody like the nanny comes to ask Nicole a thing and then specifically says, jared was on a call and I didn't want to interrupt him, so I've come to interrupt you, who clearly are also on a call and also doing work, but it seems better to interrupt you.

[Jen]

Yeah, I think there's an assumption that the mom holds more information, which is usually Jason knows where anything is.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Yeah, that is true. I do not.

[Jen]

So there's a few things. Number one, it's difficult because I don't have a door to my office. My office is just the bedroom and I'm very happy up there. Except there's no way to keep the children out. When our sitter gets here, she always yells up hi, Jen. Which is really nice of her, but I'm usually on a call. She might continue to yell to ask me things. We're very close and I've told her many times that even when I text her to be like, I'm going to be on a call, it doesn't register. And Jason, I think because Jason's not the one who interfaces with her most of the time and because he has a door and because the one child who is interested in a parent always comes to me first. Except I'm very happy that Colin went to you to wipe his butt. I'm surprised. Didn't go for me, but I think maybe that was because he really needed to get to the bathroom and you were the closest grownup.

[Nicole Lapin]

So.

[Jen]

Anyway, it's annoying, but I feel like it's always on me.

[Nicole Lapin]

Can't wait for it to get better. Well, the thing is, years later, looking into my future right now you talk openly about division of labor, you have major careers and figure out more complicated things. Seemingly. But if you guys haven't figured it out, I don't have a lot of hope.

[Jen]

Nicole, have you had a discussion with your sitter about this?

[Nicole Lapin]

Yeah, and I still think it doesn't resonate for some reason. Is it a cultural thing? Is it just an assumption that Dad's work is more important and, like, dad works and mom doesn't, but we're both,

[Jen]

what, like, what it means to her come from me. So, like, what have you said to her? Or like, how did that conversation go?

[Nicole Lapin]

I need to get better at clear communication. This is for sure on me. I'm nervous because it's so personal making sure that she takes good care of our daughter. I don't want to offend her. And I'm not as clear as I would be with another type of employee because it feels like maybe she's going to hate me or something and then take it out on the kid. I don't know.

[Jen]

No, that's not going to like that. That is not a thing. I don't think. I don't know. That seems like a. I understand that you're concerned. I think that that's not at all what would happen. She is not gonna take it out on your child. Like you're dealing with an adorable little baby. No, she's not gonna take it on the child. Worst case scenario, she might be annoyed with you, but she's not gonna take it out on the kid. But I don't think she would take it out on you either. If you go to her with Jared and basically be like, listen, we love the work you are doing for us and our daughter. Please don't feel like you always have to come to me when you have a question about something in the house or the baby. You are very welcome to go to Jared and interrupt him.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

As I'm listening to this, I'm realizing I'm trying to put myself, the sitter's point of view here. And what I just realized as you were saying, that is that the challenge with telling anybody something like that is that it still puts the judgment call them. That makes it really difficult for her to know how to navigate this and also creates stress about whether or not every time she needs something, she's going to do the right or the wrong thing. So the better move is to not put the work on her, but rather to put the work on the couple first, which, Jen, you and I have not exactly done. But that would be to come up with a specific guideline, like between the hours of blank and blank, if you need something, go to the husband. Or on these days, he is available, not me. I think the thing that she's most concerned about is making the wrong decision.

[Jen]

But I think there's a lot of value in that. But I also think that creates extra work for Nicole and Jared. Schedules change. You don't know who's recording, when, who has a call, when that requires a lot of busy work and just remembering to do it. Like, I like the idea in theory, but I think you have to give the sitter a little autonomy. Be like, Monday, Wednesday, Friday, go to me. Tuesday, Thursday, every other Monday, go to my husband.

[Nicole Lapin]

But do you feel like some mom guilt when you say no? Oh, okay, good. Because I'm like. I feel like in my head they're judging me because I'm a mom, and I'm like, okay, I'm unavailable for this baby.

[Jen]

I don't know your sitter. I don't know her background. I think we're all in some ways, participating in this very stereotypical gender breakdown. Right? It makes sense that the sitter goes to the mom even if the mom is working. That's how things are, and we're moving away from that. But that's still the default.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

I just had a slight and obvious revelation that part of this might be a gender thing, but another part of it might simply be going to whoever the sitter feels like they report to. This is a workplace for them. You almost forget. If you are the person hiring the sitter, Sandra will pick up the phone sometimes because someone's calling her, and she'll say, I'm at work. Because she is, because our home is her place of work. So if you have a job, then if you have a question, you go to the person who you report to. In this case, she functionally reports to you because you're the one who most interfaces with her. The solution then is that I need to be doing a better job being involved in the general.

[Jen]

Yeah, but that's not gonna happen. We are stuck in this format. And I, like, I'm not even gonna say stuck in the format because there's certain things that I take care of in the house, and there's certain things that Jason takes care of in the house. Our ceiling leaks when Colin takes a bath. Who is not gonna spend three seconds thinking about the plumber since I told Jason to deal with it, is he? I'm not spending a second thinking about that. Jason, I hope you called the plumber. Or will. So, like, writing it down right now. The problem is that if the plumber comes in the middle of the day, who's going to deal with the plumber? It's going to be me. Although if I said, jason, you're dealing with the plumber, I would like to. Yeah, Jason will actually deal with the plumber.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

I texted the exterminator this morning. Just.

[Jen]

Just for the record, that's usually my job anyway. The fact of the matter is that it's usually going to be the mom in a heterosexual relationship. It's usually the mom that deals with the sitter. That's just how it usually goes. And that means that, yeah, this is the workplace and that's who the sitter reports to, but that's generally the dynamic. The problem is that it's the workplace, but the purpose of the sitter is so that the parents don't have to engage with the sitter or the children during the workday. So she should be, in theory, self sufficient, which Sandra mostly is. I love Sandra. She's awesome. I think I need to have a more formal conversation with her to be really nice about it and be like, I know you're doing an awesome job, but I need a little more space.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

I just want to broaden this out for a second. Beyond sitters, one of the other things Nicole and I talked about before you came was how you feel like setting up the playdates has become your responsibility. You recently told me that you don't like that has become your job. And I told Nicole that one solution that we've come to, which didn't fix everything, but was to create text threads that involve all four parents so that everyone is involved and to just sort of like, try to infuse that thinking throughout everything, which is that it's easy for the childcare work to get siloed into the dad.

[Jen]

That doesn't work either because that's not how every family operates. And frankly, like, if. If we. Someone. It's gotta be delegated. It's gotta be delegated because if we're both sending a text thread who. I already told you, like, this is stressing me out. I don't want to do this. So I'm gonna just sit there on the text. I need you to do it so that it takes the stress away from me.

[Nicole Lapin]

I can't even set up my own playdates, so I can't function as a normal adult with my own social anxiety. Taking on a kid's social anxiety seems very stressful.

[Jen]

This is my social anxiety about my kid, who I don't think is actually socially anxious.

[Nicole Lapin]

That's fair.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

I just wanted to point out that this isn't a thing that's specific to sitters, because that's a very narrow problem.

[Jen]

We have one couple, although Finn's not hanging out with him anymore, who was very adamant about we want all parents on the thread. And that's awesome. I'm so happy. I totally support that. But I think that that's not the norm in most families. You could try it and see what happens, but I still think someone's got to make the decision and do the back and forth.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

All right, so, Nicole, you've seen into your future. How depressing is it?

[Nicole Lapin]

So depressing.

[Jen]

It's not depressing.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

No.

[Nicole Lapin]

It's exciting and scary and like everything else, Jason was, what I thought, great birth control before I was pregnant, and then I was like, this is not going to be as bad as he says. And then maybe you just caught me on a day that I'm like, I am so spent.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

All right, we solved all parenting and gender problems, and I'm gonna call the plumber.

[Nicole Lapin]

Oh, my God.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

I did actually write down call the plumber because she told me to do it yesterday, and I totally forgot. I'm gonna call the plumber. The ceiling is leaking. Help Wanted is a production of Money News Network. Help Wanted is hosted by me, Jason

[Nicole Lapin]

Pfeiffer, and me, Nicole Lapin.

Our executive producer is Morgan Lavoie. Do you want some help? Email our helpline@help wantedoney news network.com for the chance to have some of your questions answered on the show and follow us on Instagramoney News and TikTok MoneyNews Network for exclusive content and to see our beautiful faces. Maybe a little dance?

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Oh, I didn't sign up for that.

[Nicole Lapin]

All right, well, talk to you soon.