"I Hate Something Posted About Me Online— Can I Ask For It To Be Taken Down? Help!"

Summary

---

Podcast Summary: Help Wanted – "I Hate Something Posted About Me Online— Can I Ask For It To Be Taken Down? Help!"

Date: September 16, 2025
Hosts: Jason Feifer (Editor in Chief, Entrepreneur magazine) & Nicole Lapin (Money expert, author)
Episode Theme:
The episode explores questions surrounding online reputation management: can you get something about you removed from the Internet, how newsrooms respond to such requests, and the personal impact of internet history and search results on self-image, career, and mental health.

---

Main Discussion: Can You Get Content About Yourself Removed Online?

[03:05] Nicole Lapin: Introduces the main work-question: "Should we be scared about what's on the Internet? Is it really there forever?" She asks Jason if people ever succeed in having articles about themselves removed.

Key Insights & Takeaways

• Media Outlets’ Approach Varies

  • “The more you think of yourself as news, the more you hew to this industry standard of, ‘We are the New York Times, we are the record of information, then you cannot alter that.’ ...And the less you think of yourself as news, the more it doesn't really matter.”
    — Jason Feifer [03:32]
  • Jason explains there’s no universal rule—some newsrooms (especially large, “paper of record” types) rarely ever take down or alter content, while others, especially smaller or less formal outlets, may accommodate personal requests.

• Personal vs. Legal Approaches

  • Jason is more likely to respond positively to heartfelt, personal requests, rather than those sent through lawyers.

    "If it's a publicist reaching out because some dumbass publicist thing, then I don't do it... But if it's like... my life has just radically changed, and it would just mean the world to me for this thing to just go away... Whatever, I'll just take it down. Who cares?"
    — Jason Feifer [03:32]

  • Contact from lawyers is usually counterproductive in Jason’s eyes:

    “I learned...lawyers are assholes and judges are even larger assholes, and the court doesn’t give a fuck about you... my blood boils whenever I hear from a lawyer.”
    — Jason Feifer [06:06]

• Changing Attitudes

  • There’s been a societal shift:

    "We used to think of the Internet as a permanent record. I think that everybody at this point now knows — if not are themselves a person who has stuff floating around the Internet they really don’t want others to see. And that it’s not fair to have a permanent record of yourself across time.“
    — Jason Feifer [08:05]

• Newsroom Decision Breakdown

  • What kinds of requests succeed?
    • Genuine, personal stories with tangible life impact are given more weight.
    • Superficial or SEO-driven requests (e.g., 'My company changed name, can you update all articles?') usually aren’t accommodated because this would create chaos and overwhelming precedent.

    "If it's impacting your life, then I think I should be human."
    — Jason Feifer [11:20]

Sample Real-Life Request

[13:22] Jason Feifer: Reads out a real request from a former guest writer asking to have her byline removed after changing jobs.

• Jason did not remove her byline (doing so would set an unmanageable precedent) but did update her bio to remove references to her old employer—despite knowing even that is not scalable in the long run.

---

The Reality of Reputation Management Services

[07:16] Nicole Lapin: Notes an uptick in services promising to remove unflattering content online.

• Most “Reputation Management” is SEO
  • These services typically try to push negative content lower in search results; they rarely succeed in actually removing content.
  • Jason adds these services are "just about, like, managing the Google search on your name. But Google searches are down." [07:16]
• AI & Search Evolution
  • Lapin wonders about the next frontier: "What about smushing down ChatGPT results?" [08:00]
  • Jason predicts AI search reputation management will become its own challenge as these systems start being a primary info source.

---

Emotional Impact of Online Presence

[18:58] Nicole Lapin: Shares her "traumatic relationship" with Googling herself, leading to compulsion, embarrassment, and insecurity.

• "I remember, in my 20s when I started showing up on the Internet, I would just be so obsessive compulsive about what was on there." [19:17]

• She eventually stopped trying to micromanage her image, noting:

  "I stopped, probably 10 years ago at this point, like really stepping away from trying to control any narrative." [22:02]

• Impact of Images and Social Labels

  • Nicole’s main anxiety comes from old photos or information not directly under her control.

    "People inevitably, like, take horrible screenshots when I used to be on the news, and I would just feel like, oh, this is the thing that people are seeing as a representation of me. Like, I hate this." [20:33]

  • Google Alert tips: She now filters alerts into a separate folder to stay sane.

---

Association, Family Legacies, and Unfair Guilt

• Inherited Stigma:

  • Lapin describes years grappling with guilt by association (parents’ tabloid coverage, ex-relationships) and how this colors how she sees her public footprint.

    "It’s just taken me so long to come to terms with the idea that somebody else that I’m associated with...is like bestowed on me." [23:02]

  • Shares a story about a lost book deal due to her father's history, rejected by a TV exec:

    “He’s like, oh, no, no, no, no, we can’t have our anchors associated with drugs.” [26:01]

• Trying to Control the Uncontrollable

  • Jason analyzes Nicole’s journey: “There was probably a moment in which as you got older, you said to yourself, I am coming from an uncontrollable place. I need to control the things around me… The problem is that the world does not really accommodate that very well.” [28:44]

---

The Psychological Evolution: Letting Go

• Learning What Matters

  • Nicole says she’s worked towards letting go, accepting most people just "don't care" about your personal details; people are too busy with their own lives.

    “I think that I’ve recently tried to come to terms with this idea that, like, people really just don’t care. They’re just, like, so consumed with their own lives.”
    — Nicole Lapin [33:24]

• Public Persona vs. Self

  • Jason maintains detachment by viewing “Jason Feifer” online as a character, not his real self:

    "The version of Jason Feifer the public sees and consumes is just a character... Even when I see people on LinkedIn comment on something that I said, it doesn’t actually feel that good because it doesn’t feel like I said it.” [31:24]

---

Parenting, Privacy, and What You Can Control

• Worries About Passing on Anxieties
  • Nicole shares worries that her daughter could inherit her digital anxiety (“mirroring”), but Jason reassures her that children are their own people—a mishmash of influences and biology, not just parental modeling.

    "She will not be a carbon copy of you... She will be a mishmash of you and Jared and, like, her friends and what she saw on TV. And then also, just like, whatever is in her biologically, that will just come out on its own."
    — Jason Feifer [36:01]

• On Responsibility as Parents:

  "Don’t put all the responsibility for how your child will just develop as a person on you. They will absorb some things from you. They will also just create things by themselves."
  — Jason Feifer [35:04]

---

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Journalist Precedent:

  “If somebody reaches out to me and they just tell me a personal story... this is coming up in searches, and it’s really hard because of XYZ reason... I just took the quote out. Story still stands. Literally nobody’s going to notice old stories online...”
  — Jason Feifer [09:40]

• On The Futility of Control (and Acceptance):

  "At some point you just have to realize that actually the game is unwinnable, but also the game doesn’t matter as much as you thought. The things that actually matter are much smaller, and that those things are controllable.”
  — Jason Feifer [30:47]

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 03:05 — Main question: Can you get things taken down online?
• 03:32 – 06:29 — Jason’s newsroom perspectives, legal requests, and personal policies.
• 07:16 – 09:29 — Reputation management companies, pushing down search results, and the coming AI challenge.
• 11:42 – 16:36 — Case study: Real life byline removal request; Jason’s practical newsroom decision-making.
• 18:58 – 22:55 — Nicole discusses the emotional toll of Googling yourself, trying to control online narratives.
• 23:02 – 28:44 — Deeper conversation about inherited digital stigma, family history, and controlling narratives.
• 31:24 – 36:01 — Detachment strategies, public persona, and mental health.
• 33:24 – 36:46 — Parenting, protecting kids, mirroring anxieties, and letting go of perfection.

---

Episode Tone & Closing

Open, honest, and personal. Both hosts are candid about their insecurities and philosophy around online identity, blending practical, industry-level advice with emotional, lived experience.
The episode ends on a cliffhanger, promising more discussion soon about sharing children’s identities online.

---

If you’re struggling with unwanted content online:

• Direct, human, polite personal appeals get the best response—especially if the post is causing tangible harm.
• Big outlets almost never delete content; smaller ones might.
• Legal threats typically harden opposition.
• Focus on controlling what you can, and accept that you can’t (and shouldn’t) control everything others say or do on the Internet.

---

Transcript

[Nicole Lapin]

When I was broke in my 20s, I was so scared to check my checking account because I didn't know how much money was in there, if any. And honestly, I didn't want to know. Part of my journey from money mess to money master was making sure I always knew how much money I had in each account and a plan for every dollar. One of the tools I love for this is Monarch Money. Monarch Money lets me track every dollar that I have and every dollar that I spend, but it's not just for me. It also lets me and my husband both track all all of our accounts. That way we can see what's in our shared dashboard and which bills we have or haven't paid yet. It takes navigating shared finances from an annoying constant back and forth to one easy peasy peek at Monarch Money. It has saved us both so much time. While I use it to share financial information quickly and easily with my husband, it is also simple to share financial information with an advisor at no extra cost. If you've been putting off managing your money, Monarch Money is an easy way to get started. Knowing where you stand financially ultimately makes life so so much less stressful and will save you so much money in the long run. Don't let financial opportunity slip through the cracks. Use Code help [e-mail] in your browser for half off your first year. That's 50% off your first [e-mail] with code help Wanted.

Okay guys, I recently had my identity.

Stolen and it was awful. It felt like a gross icky violation like somebody got into my digital house and locked me out. Getting your identity stolen means putting a hold on your card and replacing everything. So when that happens there is no time to wait. You want to be able to get hold of your bank right away. One thing I love about Chime is that they have 24.

7 customer support available.

So if you notice an unexpected charge or lose your wallet, you can connect with a real person right away to get it all sorted out. Chime also offers fee free checking accounts and ATMs. No more monthly maintenance fees. Work on your financial goals with Chime today. Open an [e-mail] helpwanted that's chime.com helpwanted Chime feels like progress.

[Chime Legal Disclaimer]

Chime is a financial technology company, not a bank. Banking services and debit card provided by the Bancorp Bankna or Stride Bankna members. FDIC Spot me eligibility requirements and overdraft limits apply. Timing depends on submission of payment file. Fees apply at out of network ATMs bank ranking and number of ATMs according to US News and World Report. 2023 Chime checking account request.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

This is Help Wanted, the show that makes your work work for you. I'm Jason Pfeiffer, editor in chief of Entrepreneur magazine.

[Nicole Lapin]

And I'm money expert Nicole La.

On Tuesdays, Jason and I answer the.

Helpline and help callers solve their work problems.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

And on Thursdays, I give you one way to improve your work and build a career or company you love.

[Nicole Lapin]

And it starts now.

So, Jason.

Yes, on the show we've talked a lot about people going viral on the Internet. The lady who didn't give her seat on the plane, oh my God, that went so viral. Yeah, we took her side. The Coldplay kiss cam situation classic. Today I want to ask you a question. Call the helpline and ask about how.

To manage your reputation online.

Should we be scared about what's on the Internet? Is it really there forever? And Jason, because you are such a big deal. Oh yes, fancy pants. I wanted to ask you for a friend.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Ooh, asking for a friend means asking for myself. This is going to be good.

[Nicole Lapin]

Has anyone actually successfully fully requested an article to come off any news organization you've been part of?

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Yes, it depends on how news oriented the organization thinks of itself. Like, you know, like the more you think of yourself as news, the more in which you hew to this industry standard of we are the New York Times, we are the record of information, then you cannot alter that. And then the less you think of yourself as news, the more it doesn't really matter. I, I personally used to because I thought of myself as a capital J journalist. Like I, I, I would take great umbrage to somebody asking for something to be removed because it was like, well, you consented to it originally and it is part of the record and for us to take it down is a disservice to the public. And now I think, you know what, like, life moves on and you don't want your name showing up in a Google search and that's fine and nobody's reading the story anyway and who cares? So I, I have taken things down if people have asked. I mean, you know, it's usually it like depends on the reason. If it's a publicist reaching out because some dumbass publicist thing, then I don't do it just because I find that annoying. But if it's like, you know, somebody reaches out and they're just like, look, this story is 12 years old and it keeps coming up in Searches. And. And. And, like, my life has, like, just radically changed, and it would just be. It would just mean the world to me for this thing to just go away. Whatever. I'll just take it down. Who cares?

[Nicole Lapin]

Interesting. So more of a personal approach versus, like a lawyer or something like that.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Oh, yeah. Oh, my God. I had. I haven't thought about this in a long time. I can't remember the specific details. There was a guy who had. Who had, like, used this new European law to get something scrubbed from Google searches in Europe. And it was a old New York Times story about some scam that he and his dad had run, but it was, like, 15 years ago, and it kept coming up and his, like, his life has moved on and he's changed, whatever. And the New York Times ran a story about it and they named him. And so then I took a screenshot of it and I was like, remember this name? I tweeted this. I was like, remember this name? Because this guy's trying to escape that he ran this scam. And then he came after me with a lawyer. And I was so fucking indignant. But eventually Jen was like, this is not a thing to get sued over. Just delete the tweet. And so I deleted the tweet, but I really hated it. But, no, I hate hearing from lawyers. I. I will. I will. Will actively be annoying if I hear from a lawyer.

[Nicole Lapin]

Wow.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

And I have. I have friends who are lawyers. But, like, you know, I got. I got dragged through the system for five years. I got sued, and what I learned was that, like, lawyers are assholes and judges are even larger assholes, and the court doesn't give a fuck about you. And, like, I just. I just hate it. My blood boils whenever I hear from a lawyer.

[Nicole Lapin]

Yeah, that's coming across. Sounds like you have legal trauma.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Yes, I do. I have a lot of legal trauma. And anyone who has ever had to engage with the legal system will also have legal trauma. And that is. That is a good sign that you have a broken system.

[Nicole Lapin]

Well, I think this is actually an interesting topic because people are just, based on my cursory searches for helpers to do things like this, are really concerned about reputation management online and how to go about it and what actually works and what you might waste your money on and cycles on, because there are a lot of services and, you know, people on upwork or whatever saying that they can take things down or they can DMCA things, but what if that is real? And what if that is just lighting money on fire?

[Jason Pfeiffer]

You know, it's interesting, I hadn't actually thought about this until you said it. Right now, a lot of those services are basically just pushing things down Google searches. Because if you. If the thing that you don't want to come up in a Google search shows up on the first page, then it's very easily found. But people rarely go to the second or third page of a Google search. And so if you can just create new content, that is the kind of thing that you want people to find about you, and that shoves down any of the stuff that you don't want people to find about you, that basically solves the problem. And a lot of that reputation management stuff is just that it was just about, like, managing the Google search on your name. But Google searches are down.

[Nicole Lapin]

Yeah, like, what about smushing down ChatGPT results?

[Jason Pfeiffer]

That's gonna be. It's gonna be a whole other thing, which would be really, really interesting because that now is the way in which people are going to find information about you. And so the kind of work necessary for reputation management is going to be a lot about what can you do to train AI searches about your name, which is going to be different. But I also think that we have changed as a society in the last couple decades in which we used to think of the Internet as a permanent record. And I think that everybody at this point now knows, if not are themselves a person who has stuff floating around the Internet they really don't want other people to see. And that it's not fair to have a permanent record of yourself across time. Because I'm a. I'm a very different person at 45 than I was at 25. And, like, I'm really glad that the dumb crap that I wrote at 25 is not that easily found. And that's not true for everybody. And I think that there's just a more sympathetic perspective towards that among people than there was a decade or two ago. And so I would be willing to bet that a lot of organizations would be willing to change something if they've posted about you. Like, not everybody. And some companies are going to be total dicks about it, but there's more flexibility than there used to be. There is with me.

[Nicole Lapin]

That's really interesting. I'm curious to hear what kind of, like, catchphrases work, or is it just, you know, being really vulnerable and genuine?

[Jason Pfeiffer]

It's just about being human. Like, to me, it's just about being human because, okay, as a person who runs a publishing company, or at least the editorial division of that publishing company. I don't want to set a precedent that everything can come down for any reason. Because that's chaos, right? That's just chaos. Because let's just say entrepreneur, entrepreneur writes about a founder of a company, and then who the hell knows what happens? That company goes on to be sold, that company changes its name, that company closes. Any number of things could happen. And sometimes we will get people who just reach out and they're like, hey, you wrote about my company five years ago and we changed our name. Can you change the name in the story? And the answer is like, no, because if we did that for every company that changed its name, that's all we would do. Like, we would just spend all our time doing that. So, no. But if somebody reaches out to me and they just tell me a personal story and it's like, I don't deserve your personal story. But, like, I just need the context to know why I would take an action. And you're like, look, this is coming up in searches, and it's really hard because of XYZ reason. I remember there was one time where somebody said something and I can't remember why, but there was like, a very legitimate reason why they really didn't want this story to keep coming up. And the story wasn't about them. They were just quoted in the story. I just took the quote out. I just took it out. Story still stands. Literally. Nobody's going to notice old stories online, like something that Entrepreneur magazine published in 20 2007. Zero people across an entire year have ever clicked on that story. Like, it just doesn't matter what happens to it. So anyway, my line is basically, is this impacting your life? If it's. If it's just like, because you want to update the thing for SEO purposes, like, I don't care about that, but if it's impacting your life, then I think I should be human.

[Nicole Lapin]

That's cool. And are you the only one who could do it or within a news organization, would the editor in chief be key or the publisher? Or can anyone have the power to.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Do it at Entrepreneur? Anybody could do it. Because anybody can just go into the CMS and there aren't hard policies about this. But if you were at the New York Times, there would be a very hard policy about it. And that's because it is a paper of record news organization. And so it's going to think very differently about this kind of thing.

[Nicole Lapin]

What about the. And let's bleep this out, please. What about the.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

All Right. And Nicole is named a. Please don't Google a rather obscure publication. That's a good question. I think that that would come down to I just for the context of answering this. So you know, you just told me, like a very random obscure news organization.

[Nicole Lapin]

It's not obscure to me.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

It's not obscure to you, but it is obscure to most people. I think honestly that it will. It is totally going to come down to how self serious the person that you reach out to is. Like, if that, if that person is thinking to themselves, I'm just here to serve the community, then I think that they would be responsive to it. But if that person is like, I am a journalist and one day I shall be running the New York Times, but I'm starting here, then like, they probably won't unless there's again or unless there's some policy about it. But I actually, most organizations probably don't have a policy around it. And so it totally just comes down to the individual. But. But things could work differently in other places with other people. But I will tell you that for me, if I was at this named organization, this organization that you just bleeped out the name of.

[Nicole Lapin]

Never. You would never.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

No, I would be really open to it if I heard from you, and I would be less open to it if I heard from a lawyer. Like, if I heard from a lawyer, then I would think, all right, you're gonna, you're gonna try to operate in this in like whatever the law says. So I'm gonna operate in whatever the law says. Does the law say that this name can stay in the story? Well, then you. It stays in the story. Like, that's how I would feel about it. But if it's a human being coming at me like a human being, then I'm so much more open to it. You know what? I just went through my email and I just searched remove my name, see what came up, and I found an email. So I'm just going to. I'll read it and then you can tell me what you would have thought. All right, so. Hi, Jason. I am this person's name a guest writer for entrepreneur.com. so this is entrepreneur.com for context has tons and tons of people over the years who have written for the site, most of which are just people in business who in one way or another were allowed to become a writer for some period of time. Okay. So anyway. Hello. Hi, I am name Guest writer for Entrepreneur.com I have recently left my job at a company and the name's the company and would like to remove my name from the Entrepreneur account as I no longer represent this company and I'm now running my own business. Here is my account. This is like her bio. So I said like, she was a writer and so she has a. A writer bio. And then here's my LinkedIn profile, I guess to prove that she has changed jobs. Can you please remove my account? I would like to have the article if possible, but don't want my name attached to it. So. Okay, so in this case, in other.

[Nicole Lapin]

Words, let's just byline taken off.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Yeah, yeah. She wants. She basically. So it's like. Let's just say. Let's just say Nicole Lapin. I heard from Nicole Lapin and Nicole Lapin. Yes. God, I never want to hear from her. So I heard from Nicole Lapin and Nicole is saying, hi, Jason, I've written a whole bunch of stories for entrepreneur.com. yes, that's true. You have. But. But you always did it in the context of Nicole. In this case, she did it in the context of she works for some organization, some company. Let's just say. Let's just say I, I work for Tractors usa and, and I write about. I write about the great business of tractor selling, but I don't work at Tractors usa. I actually left and now I work for Airplanes usa. So we don't like tractors anymore. And so I. Can you take my name off of all about tractors that I've written about?

[Nicole Lapin]

Believe the story about tractors.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Just leave the story about tractors, tractor stories. I just take my name off of it because I don't work for Tractors USA anymore. What would you do in this case?

[Nicole Lapin]

Well, based on what you told me, polls at your motivation heartstrings, she didn't really get across that this is hurting her in some way or like damaging her reputation or her life. It just. Just doesn't feel as SEO friendly. Yeah. And so I don't know what you would do because you do like a lot of very men she. Things for people.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Try.

[Nicole Lapin]

Yeah. Yeah. Just good. You're a good dude. So a lawyer wasn't involved. So that.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Right. Like a lawyer.

[Nicole Lapin]

So that's great on her case, you know, I don't know. I think this one's a 50. 50.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Yeah. So here's what I ended up doing. So I. First of all, I also have to think about how does something scale and how does anything that I do set a precedent? And in this case, making a change because somebody left a job again would create absolute chaos. If that was something that entrepreneur.com accommodated. I think that you have to know going into posting something online that is attached to whatever your professional moment is that that moment may change and that the thing that you're creating is going to be captured as a moment in time. I. If you Google around and find things that I've written, there are all sorts of things that it says. It says. Jason Pfeiffer is a. Is an associate editor at Men's Health. I know I'm not. Not anymore, but I was when I wrote that. And I'm not going to expect Men's Health to update it every time I have a job change. So I thought that what she was asking for was, was like, unreasonable. And I certainly wasn't going to take her name off of a story. Then who would have written the story? Nobody. That would have been strange. But what I decided to do was to update her bio so that it no longer said that she was working at that company. Which, by the way, is still a dangerous precedent because I cannot be in the business of updating everyone's bio. But I don't know, I just was feeling generous that day and so I. So I did it. So when we kept the story, the stories about tractors still exist, but her bio on her page no longer says that she works for Tractors usa. And that was like splitting the difference. Airplanes usa. Yeah, exactly. But this is the kind of thing that anybody who is in the business of, of capturing anything on the Internet needs to be thinking about and will be facing over and over and over again. Because the Internet is our collective memory in a way, but little bits of that are owned and gatekeeped by different people. And that's complicated.

[Nicole Lapin]

It really is.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Stick around. Help Wanted. We'll be right back. Welcome back to Help Wanted. Let's get to it.

[Nicole Lapin]

I have a very, very traumatic relationship with a Google search. Actually, I have, over the years, had to just not Google myself. It really had become like a.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

I.

[Nicole Lapin]

Don'T know, like a compulsion, but also like a, like a spiral thing that inevitably would happen every time I would go on because I would be so embarrassed by the photos or I'd be like, so nitpicky or I'd be like so mortified by stuff that wasn't bad. I was just like. It just felt so personal and icky. And then I would read comments and stuff and it like really, really made me super crazy. Like, I remember, you know, early on in my 20s when I started showing up on the Internet, I would just be so obsessive compulsive. About what was on there. And I had to step away from that because I know it's just like a recipe for disaster. It's like Indian food. Like, you know, you're going to get diarrhea. Like, don't eat Indian food.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

So I don't get diarrhea when I eat Indian food. I love Indian food.

[Nicole Lapin]

You can't taste Indian food or something.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

I guess that's true, but my wife says it's good. So what happens? Like, what. Do you have a Google Alert for yourself?

[Nicole Lapin]

I used to have a Google alert for myself. I still have one, but I put it in a spam folder or a different folder so I don't see it unless I want to see it.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Okay.

[Nicole Lapin]

And then I've just actively not searched myself or looked at Wikipedia, which makes me crazy. And, you know, photos that show up make me crazy because people inevitably, like, take horrible screenshots when I used to be on the news, and I would just feel like, oh, this is the thing that people are seeing as a representation of me. Like, I hate this.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

But you have to, like, a couple of things. So number one, I. I don't think I've ever done this, but I. I just googled you, and it's fine. I'll tell you what's on the, on the, on the home page.

[Nicole Lapin]

Why, Jason, this is like, it's.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

No, it's fine. I'm not. It's. I'm not gonna.

[Nicole Lapin]

Exposure therapy.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

I'm not gonna traumatize you. It's fine. It's fine. This is the whole point of it is that it's fine. So, you know, like, whatever. So if you Google a person, the first thing at the very, very top is like a bunch of photos. And they're like, they're fine photos. They. Them are old, but they're fine. Whatever. And then a bunch of your books. That's great. And then. And then after that, it's. It is. The entire first page is. Is. Is like kind of formal profile things. So the first thing is your Instagram. And then the next is Wikipedia, which I realize, you know, is. That's annoying. You don't have control over it. The third is your website. Fine. Then your LinkedIn profile. Also fine. I see you're more active on there, which is great. Then Facebook. Yeah, I appreciate that. And then like some random videos, but the videos are all, you know, they're all like, fine, whatever. And then that's it. That's the first page. So, you know, it's like you actually do point. Own the first page of Google for your search in that. In like the vast majority of it is just stuff that you create and manage yourself.

[Nicole Lapin]

Thank you so much. Yeah, that wasn't actually intentional. I stopped. Yeah. Probably 10 years ago at this point, like really stepping away from trying to control any narrative. Like I used to reach out to blogs and be like, hey, can you put this photo instead of the other? Or something like that. I was just really. I was also just like so self conscious about all of it. Really insecure, clearly. And then I stepped away and. And now the thing that I'm concerned about, I actually don't know where it ranks. I'm sure it doesn't rank on the first, you know, 50 pages or whatever. It doesn't even have to do with me. It's like an. A person that I dated and why people care at all about this is very confusing to me. But you know, I feel very. I don't know, this is getting to like something much, much deeper. But I feel.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Yeah, what do you feel? Oh God, this is, I mean, this is like. I don't know, I don't even know what scab I'm picking at here, but I don't know where you're going.

[Nicole Lapin]

I feel like a lot of my Internet trauma, aside from just feeling like a self conscious, you know, young woman and nitpicking her face and body, I feel like a lot of it comes from other people. And so the things that I'm most concerned about are things that I haven't even done. So it's like I. I've always struggled with this idea of, you know, my parents were crazy people and throughout my career, like, being associated with them even was just a really hard thing to grapple with because, you know, of this idea of like the sins of the father are not bestowed on the son or the daughter or whatever. And like me by association, what that said about me, I. It's just taken me so long to come to terms with the idea that somebody else that I'm associated with, whether like in a romantic sense or a familial sense, is like bestowed on me. And that connotation is bad. Has. Has been quite, quite a journey for me actually. You know, it stemmed when I left cnn, so my whole department was laid off. I had sold a memoir when I was 25. That was my first book deal. Did you know this?

[Jason Pfeiffer]

I don't know that I did.

[Nicole Lapin]

So my very first book deal was like a quarter century memoir. And so I had enough crap in my life to sell a memoir that young. And it was like kind of like a glass castle, like, narrative. Kind of like what Anderson did at the time around, like, you know, the, the death of his brother and, like, but also reflecting on Katrina coverage and stories. So, like, sort of me finding my own crazy childhood and past, like, through some of the reporting that I was doing. And then after my whole department got let go, I needed to find a new job. And the two job offers that I got really quickly were Bloomberg and cnbc. And I ended up going to cnbc, but I had to have a conversation with the head of the network and say, hey, I also have this book deal that I already signed with HarperCollins. It was a hundred thousand dollar advance. Like, it was. I thought it was more money than I ever thought I would ever get, ever, ever. It was more money than I made for a year at cnn. And I was like, this is a really important contract for me. And, you know, I tried to, like, sort of minimize it. And he's like, well, what is it about? And I said, well, it's mostly about my family. And he's like, okay, well, what is that say? And it's like, you know, my father died of an overdose, and he's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Drugs? And I was like, but I've never done drugs. That was my father and the story around it. And he was a surgeon. And, you know, I used to have to take his, you know, urine tests for him to pass drug tests. Like, it gets pretty gnarly. But I was just like. He was like, oh, no, no, no, no, no. We can't have our anchors associated with drugs.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Really.

[Nicole Lapin]

I had to get out of that contract. And it was one of the most painful things for me to reconcile. I was also 25 at the time.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Yeah.

[Nicole Lapin]

And so I always just felt like this association of the people close to my life and what they've done or the choices that they've made have somehow affected me. And. And so anyway, yeah, doesn't have to do with me, actually.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

I have things to say, but a question first. Looking back on that, do you wish that memoir had come out?

[Nicole Lapin]

Oh, that's such a good question. I think I will hopefully write that book before I die. It wasn't the right time. And the station chief at the time was like, our on air personalities only write business books, period. The end. And that's how I got into Rich Bitch, actually. When I. When I left, he probably would not have approved that one, but it wasn't the right time.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Yeah.

[Nicole Lapin]

So probably, you know, for the better in the, like, zooming out in the course of my career and my. My writing trajectory. So at some point I would love to actually write that memoir. It was actually very cool to like, investigate my own life. I went through microfiber film at the library to read a bunch of old articles about my family and all sorts of gnarly stuff that I would investigate, you know, other stories, but I never really did myself. And part of getting into the news, which is a whole, like, we're getting super deep unexpectedly. But getting into the news was always a tricky relationship for me because my family was in the news a lot growing up. And so it was like a weird thing of like, you're drawn to the things that hurt you. Like, my. My parents had a really nasty divorce that was like, all over, you know, the front pages of. I guess they had nothing else to cover at the time but like the Orange County Register in the LA Times. And like, kids at school and their parents would like, you know, it was just the news in general, like, really, you know, had a huge impact on everything that I saw growing up. And so even just being part of the news or considering going to the news was. Was. Was an odd choice.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Yeah, well, or it wasn't. The theme that I'm hearing, tell me if I'm right, isn't necessarily you're drawn to the things that hurt you, but rather that you're trying to control the things that seemed uncontrollable.

[Nicole Lapin]

Yeah.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Right. I mean, like, that's, that's this news thing that you're saying, but that's also the way that you were responding to Google searches. It. That there was just a real sense of alarm, which I could totally understand coming up in such a uncontrollable environment. There was probably a moment in which, and I'm no psychologist, but there's probably a moment in which as you got older, you said to yourself, like, I am coming from an uncontrollable place. I need to control the things around me. Like, I will be more comfortable if I am. If I'm just like, able to manage how people see me and what I say and just like the general things around me. And the problem is that the world does not really accommodate that very well. And. And then I guess probably the irony of it is that you then got into and became a voice in a system that used to feel very uncontrollable. Right. If the press was covering your family, that felt very uncontrollable. And then suddenly you were a voice in that ecosystem, which meant that you had some control over it, but you also then invited a whole other universe around you that was uncontrollable of things that people would say and things that people would post and so on. And so then it became another layer of interest and then you tried to control that layer and that's where you're then focusing in on the Google stuff. And, and I suppose at some point, and maybe this is where you are now, so tell me if I'm right or wrong. But like at some point you just have to realize that actually the game is unwinnable, but also the game doesn't matter as much as you thought. And like the things that actually matter are, are much smaller and that those things are controllable. Like you can control the people that you surround yourself with and you can control the life that you build and, and the rest of it just like, doesn't matter as much.

[Nicole Lapin]

Didn't expect it to, to have like the onion peeled back this far. But yeah, it was the first thing that I've cared about and, and like I've gotten to it, I think a good place with, you know, photos or whatever. Like it's, it's an okay ish place or what people say about me or the content or the comments. Like, you know, people will bring up comments sometimes or reviews and I like really try not to read them. It's a recipe for depression. And so, yeah, I recognize that enough just by, by doing the thing so much.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

It was interesting hearing you talk about all this because, you know, you and I, we've talked about this many times. Come from just completely different backgrounds. Like, you know, whereas you came from instability, I came from total stability. And so as a result of that, I have had a very different and totally inverse to you relationship to the kinds of things that you're describing where, I mean, I am not as public a person as you are, but I still have plenty of random stuff that's posted about me and people quoting me or misquoting me or whatever. And I have pretty quickly developed a complete detachment to it in which I just feel like the version of Jason Pfeiffer that, that the public sees and consumes is just a character that I'm playing. And it's like a, it's like overlaps with me in some way, but it's not actually me. And so the person that they're talking about is not actually me either. It's like the character version of me. And, and like, that's fine. I just, you know, like Even when I See People on LinkedIn comment on something that I said, it actually doesn't feel that good. I mean, it's usually complimentary, but, like, it doesn't actually feel that good because it doesn't feel like I said it. It feels like my character said it. That's something I'm able to do, I think, because I've never had to worry about, like, just a lack of control. So in the. So I can look at this uncontrollable space around me and be like, whatever, that's fine, because, like, I feel super grounded where I am. So anyway, the point of this, to the degree that there is one, is that this sense of, like, what is a. What the Internet knows about us, and therefore what other people know about us is. It's probably as we think about what we can and cannot manage in that space because some of it is manageable and some of it is just purely not. And it. And it's totally arbitrary. Like, kind of in many ways depends on just who you happen to reach and how you reach them. That. That a lot of this matters less. Like, the. The what's happening in the world around you matters less than just whatever is happening with yourself.

[Nicole Lapin]

So wise. Yeah, I. I think that I've recently tried to come to terms with this idea that, like, people really just don't care.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

No, they don't care.

[Nicole Lapin]

They're just, like, so consumed with their own lives. And every time I get into some, like, oh, well, what if this person. And it's just like, they don't care. Nope, they just care about their own stuff. And, you know, maybe this can be a whole other episode to talk about, like putting my daughter online. It's just, like, such a complicated relationship that I have with this. And I know, like, a lot of things that I still feel like I'm very much a work in progress. Although my therapist has said you will always be a work in progress. And you can. We all are totally. Like, you can't be better because now you have a child that's going to, like, speak English soon. I'm like, I need to really nip this, you know, neuroses in the bud. So, like, she never picks up on it and ever develops any of these bad habits that I have, but, you know, like, doing my best. And so I think about you before.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Before you go on, can I just, like, assure you of something, which is.

[Nicole Lapin]

Because as a. As an elder parent.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

As an elder parent. As an elder parent is that your. Your kids are gonna do whatever they do I mean, we have over here a very stable home, but our, you know, our kids who are now 10 and 6, we have to have mental health conversations and we have to, you know, it's like, whatever, everything's fine. But it's like, you know, it's complicated. It's already complicated. And that's not something that they necessarily got from us. That's just something that they got. So anyway, the point is, like, don't put, don't put all of the responsibility for how your child will just develop as a person on you. They will absorb some things from you. They will also just create things by themselves. So, like, that, that, again, is just. It's like, it's. You can control some of that, but not all of that. And you shouldn't put the burden of controlling all of that on you.

[Nicole Lapin]

Thank you so much.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

You're welcome.

[Nicole Lapin]

I'm just trying to accept the fact that she will always be in therapy. We're gonna, you know, do messed up things and, and, and I, I really appreciate that. I, you know, just try to think about the mirroring that she's already doing. Like, I go, like. And she goes, you know, and so I'm like, oh, gosh, the way I talk about money or the way I talk about the Internet, you know, she's going to pick up on.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

She will, but she will not be a. She will not be a carbon copy of you. Like, she will not be a carbon copy of what you see, of what you, like, show her, nor will she be a. A carbon copy of whatever you try to hide from her. Like, she just won't. She will, she will be a mishmash of you and Jared and, like, you know, her friends and what she saw on tv. And then also, just like, whatever is in her biologically, that will just come out on its own. It is just so uncontrollable. Like, that's why I feel, look, as a parent, that modeling good, good things is important, but almost equally important is just seeing what your child becomes and then being responsive to that.

[Nicole Lapin]

Very wise, wise advice from somebody farther down the road. So appreciate it. What did you and Jen talk about when you were having kids about showing their face on Facebook at the time?

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Yeah, I guess it was. You know what? I have a lot of thoughts on that, but we're just gonna pull back the curtain here, which is fun. It's fun to, you know, like, you and I were. It's a work in progress. The show's a work in progress. I'm gonna pull back the curtain which is that on the day that we're recording this, we're like almost out of time. So also, the thing that you just asked me is a really interesting question. So I don't think that we've ever done this on Help Wanted, but we're gonna cliffhanger it. Like, here's what I. Here's what I wanna say about what we've. Yes. What we've talked about stuff so far today. Which is. Which is that like, we started in this really simple way, which is just like, hey, how do I handle like a thing that's online that I don't like about me? And it got really deep in a way that I didn't expect. You didn't expect. But, but I think that what that goes to show you is that generally speaking, the, the things around us are so tied to ourselves and that we're not going to be able to control everything. And that is just a thing that we have to find some way to live with. And. And oh my God, if there's ever a lesson in not being able to control the things around you, parenting is that lesson. So. So it actually was a pretty good, pretty good transition. But Nicole, we're going to stop for now. And next week I am picking up on your conversation about what to do with kids on the Internet.

[Nicole Lapin]

Honestly, this feels like some of the voice notes you leave me, like, you'll leave me like a 10 minute long voice note and you're like, oh, I gotta go, but I'll. I'll send you another 10 minute voice show later. And I'm like, oh, okay.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Yes, yes, it's true. I know. Yeah, that's. It's like usually because I just realized that I was like walking 20 blocks in the wrong direction and now I'm late for a meeting or. Anyway, okay, so this is the end of this. Kids on the Internet. Next week, Help Wanted is a production of Money News Network. Help Wanted is hosted by me, Jason.

[Nicole Lapin]

Pfeiffer and me, Nicole Lapin. Our executive producer is Morgan Lavoy.

Do you want some help? Email our [e-mail] for the chance to have some of your questions answered on the show. And follow us on Instagramoneynews and TikTokoneyNewsNetwork.

For exclusive content and to see our beautiful faces.

Maybe a little dance.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Oh, I didn't sign up for that.

[Nicole Lapin]

All right, well, talk to you soon.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Sam.