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- [00:00]
A
So now that I'm a mom, I find myself wanting to be much more intentional about the way I live, about the way I eat, about the way I take care of my body. But because I am constantly moving around, I am always looking for an on the go protein plant based snack that satisfies me. And now I have found the exact one that helps me live intentionally too. Mosh Protein Bars Mosh, which you might have heard about on Shark Tank or on Oprah's Favorite Things, was founded by Maria Shriver and her son Patrick Schwarzenegger with a mission to spark a conversation about brain health through food education and research. After Maria's father was diagnosed with Alzheimer's, they set out to create something bigger than just a protein bar. Mosh protein bars are made with ingredients that support your brain and your body like Ashwagandha, Lion's Mane and Omega 3s Plus, Mosh is the first and only food brand boosted with Cognizant. It's a premium form of city choline that helps support focus, memory and mental clarity and they taste amazing with nine delicious flavors. My personal favorite is the Peanut Butter Chocolate chip is no better combo I think in the world than peanut butter and chocolate. I dare you to tell me I'm wrong. And now you can save on Mosh while making your wellness routine effortless. Get 25% off and free shipping on your first 15 count variety pack and then 20% for life on your monthly subscription. Head to mosh life.com help wanted that's Mosh Life M O S H L I F E.com help wanted and subscribe today to get 25% off your first variety pack and 20% off your monthly subscription with the code help wanted. That's 25% off your first pack and 20% off your subscription of Brain boosting bars delivered straight to your door. Start building Brain Health into your everyday with Mosh bars. Thanks to Mosh for sponsoring this episode.
- [01:52]
B
When you're at work, you never know when you're going to be interrupted. But with the Dell Pro powered by Intel Core Ultra with vpro, no matter what distracts you, your laptop won't. It's battery optimized for the way you work with built in intelligence that quiets distractions when you need to focus. Your laptop will help keep you locked in even when it's bring your dog to work day. Built for those who stay in the flow, the Dell Pro built for you Dell.com Dell probably this is Help Wanted, the show that makes your work work for you. I'm Jason Pfeiffer, editor in chief of Entrepreneur magazine.
- [02:39]
A
And I'm money expert Nicole Lapdin. On Tuesdays, Jason and I answer the
- [02:42]
C
helpline and help callers solve their work problems.
- [02:45]
B
And on Thursdays, I give you one way to improve your work and build a career or company you love.
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C
And it starts now.
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D
My question is about running a business with your ex partner. I've been married for seven years. We recently separated and our business is facing the next stage of growth. Do we take that next step together? And if one of us leaves, who leaves? And what does that look like for the business?
- [03:15]
B
Well, hello Nicole, thanks for joining us on Help Want It?
- [03:18]
D
Thanks Jason for having me.
- [03:20]
B
So before we give you any advice, I feel like we're going to need to know more about what's going on here. Do both of you, for example, want to continue to run the business together? Do you like each other and generally
- [03:34]
C
what kind of business is it?
- [03:36]
D
Okay, so we operate a mobile bicycle workshop. We go into buildings, houses and schools and cycling events and we service and repair bikes. Me and my ex husband started this business in 2015. It was a bit of a backyard business. We were running it out of our garage and it quickly gained momentum. We saw that we were onto something throughout Covid. There was a bit of a boom in the bike industry. So our business started to do really, really well and we thought, okay, we need to start taking this seriously. Unfortunately, at the same time our marriage ran into a series of difficulties and we mutually decided that it was best last year to separate. And we have two children and the business that we were both running together full time. And all of a sudden we find ourselves in a situation where our business is doing really well and growing without us putting a huge amount of effort into it. But we are no longer together and that is quite challenging as you can imagine. So we do like each other. It is not a high conflict separation where we don't talk to each other. We have a very nice arrangement in place for the children. But the business is a little bit more tricky, which is why I came to you guys.
- [04:59]
C
And without getting into too many details, the reason for separation was not business related.
- [05:06]
D
No.
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B
Would you say on a day to day basis that you guys are good business partners?
- [05:13]
D
I think it's actually one of the few areas where we function quite well. He's primarily on the tools, which means he's the head mechanic and I'm the business side of things. We both tend to stay in our lanes. It is not perfect. Obviously if we had A more solid partnership, you know, sort of romantic partnership or friendship, it would be more smooth sailing. So I think we've sort of reached the peak of the high conflict where, you know, everything kind of exploded with, oh, my God, this marriage is over. So that's a whole challenge in itself. It's really harrowing and it takes an emotional toll. But the business really, interestingly, has just kept running. And not only has it kept running, it's succeeding and it's improving. Our systems and processes are improving. We are getting more mechanics on board. We're looking at expanding into other states in Australia, getting more vehicles on the road. We've formed partnerships with some really, really key players in the industry.
- [06:18]
B
Nicole, let me ask you a version of the question that I just asked you with an important difference. I just asked you if you guys are good business partners. Do you want to be his business partner? Do you want to run the business with him?
- [06:35]
D
If I was to be completely honest, I'd say no, I would want to run the business by myself or with someone that I get along with better. I think he would give the same answer that he would want to run the business himself without me in the picture.
- [06:49]
B
So you have a situation where the two of you had a very strained, obviously personal relationship. That strain didn't leak fully into the professional relationship. So it's functional. But now, given your answer, is it fair to say that you're both kind of stuck in this business? Like it works. It's great that it works. It's a decent problem to have all things considered. But it's not your first choice, either of you. But neither knows what to do next. Is that kind of where we're at?
- [07:23]
D
Yes. And I think Jason, adding another layer to that. We've both put in so many years and worked so hard on this business and being in our 40s, the alternative is to sort of go out and, you know, I come from a marketing background. I'd have to essentially pick up where I left off, which was quite a few years ago, and find a job in the marketing industry, which would be incredibly hard at my age. The advantage of running a business when you have two small children and a skill like my ex husband has is that it's a very niche market and it offers you flexibility. But we created the perfect work life balance for ourselves, but we've also diverted from our careers to do this. So how do we go back years later and restart a career? Especially when you're the mother of two children and obviously now a single mother. That's another challenge. So I feel like I have no choice. I'm in this. How do I do it?
- [08:27]
C
Well, well, first of all, Nicole, I'm so sorry you're going through this. I can only imagine how hard it is. Second, are there any agreements in place with the business or contingency agreements? Is there also an option for one of you to buy each other out? How did you set it up?
- [08:46]
D
So the answer is quite simply no, Nicole. We have no formal agreements in place, not even in regards to the separation of the children. It is not a high conflict separation. We thought we would see where we land with all of this, so we separated only six months ago. No one has approached a lawyer. There are no financial property settlements in place, no custody arrangements. It's really at that stage where I'm questioning, do I keep going with this and do I build it up and build the value up so that there is something to settle on and there is something to buy? So we're really in that growth phase now where in Australia it's known as a sole trader. So we're at that stage now where on paper, the value is growing and it's starting to look like there is something to divide and sell. At what point do one of us approach the other and say, I want to buy you out?
- [09:47]
C
Well, let's play out an imaginary scenario. Let's say your ex gets remarried. Does that change the dynamic? Let's say you get remarried.
- [09:57]
D
I think it definitely could. We're very much in the early stages of our separation, but the business is hurtling ahead. It's just. It's taking off. So do we wait for those other things to happen and then it becomes ugly down the track?
- [10:14]
C
I think you have a conversation about some of those contingency agreements now if you're going to continue to grow it together. And I think having children, you have a common goal. You want the best for your children's future. I'm assuming you can both get on board with that mission. And it sounds like your business has the brightest prospects for making that happen right now. So is there a scenario where you can say, let's continue to work together, keep it really professional and together, decide what happens In a lot of scenarios if, you know, God forbid somebody is incapacitated, God forbid somebody dies. Like, these are all really hard conversations to have, but I think important to set it up now so you have a plan for if or when those things happen. Would that be possible with your ex?
- [11:11]
D
I think so. I think, you know, there's a lot of Emotions and feelings at play and either one of us could get triggered by the other one. So having these conversations is incredibly difficult, but as you said, Nicole, incredibly necessary. And now is the time to do it.
- [11:27]
C
Is there somebody that you work with or on your team that could act almost as a mediator?
- [11:34]
D
Yeah. So that's the problem is our team at the moment, they feel really awkward and they almost feel like they have to pick a side and they shouldn't feel that way. The business is still running, still functioning, but I think they feel that something big is coming. And if that happens, who are we safer with? Are we safer with this partner or this partner?
- [12:00]
B
Have you talked to them about that at all?
- [12:02]
D
No, we have not because we haven't formed a plan ourselves. So it's the elephant in the room. We keep doing the work. They're huge logistical operations. These bike services in these buildings. So we just kind of go in, we do our things. And every day at the end of the day, I'm just relieved that we got it done. And there was no big blow up and there was no high conflict, sort of Gordon Ramsay esque type of fight between husband and wife. So that doesn't happen. There's no conflict in front of the
- [12:28]
B
staff, but it doesn't matter if there's conflict in front of the staff because there's conflict all over the staff. I'm going to propose at least the starting point for this and then we'll figure out the rest. But what you're telling me now in a way sounds like the most dangerous part of this whole thing, that your staff is freaked out and you haven't communicated with them yet. And the reason for that is because your relationship with your ex has already gone through probably the hardest part. And there's a lot more to settle. And you guys will figure it out and we'll continue to talk about what your options are with the business. But the reason why you're in this problem right now is because you have a valuable asset together, which is the business that you've built. And that's a. All things considered. This is a weird way to say it, but like, good problem to have that you have this really useful asset and now what you need to do is kind of figure out what to do with it and what's going to be best for both parties. But if you don't take care of this asset, it will no longer be a valuable asset. And then you will have an easier time, both of you, walking away from a business that's not worth anything. But it will be a blown opportunity in that you have something useful now. So your staff, even though obviously in your personal life, like your kids, are going to take top priority and you have to figure out this complicated relationship with this person, your staff actually takes priority in a way, because if you don't at least communicate with them, at least create some kind of plan so that they know that their own livelihoods, because your business supports their lives, that their own livelihoods are not one fight away from disappearing, their work is gonna suffer. Your business is gonna suffer. You and your ex are not gonna have a business to try to divide up anymore. So you gotta figure that out. You gotta do something about that quick. And in a way that might be easier, because in the same way that Nicole, podcast host Nicole, just rightly pointed out that you guys have the shared goal of raising healthy children, you also right now have the shared goal of taking care of your employees. And so I would even say to your ex, look, we have a lot to figure out. Obviously, we're going to get there. But, like, step one, I feel like, needs to be that our employees are freaking out. And while we figure out what we do, we can't let the business collapse underneath us. So we need to be able to voice something together and come together on something that we can tell everybody so that they're not freaked out.
- [15:00]
C
Yeah. I would think of your business like your other family and those employees being like your other children and coming together for their greater good. I'm assuming you message all of this to your actual children. Well, now it's time for doing the same with your business. Babies.
- [15:18]
D
I think the difference is with little children, you know, there is an element of smoke and mirrors. You can present a world to them that doesn't have conflict. You can create this idea of stability. You know, mommy and daddy still love you. We don't live in the same house anymore. And because our children have meaningful relationships with both me and my ex husband. So in a sense, we've nailed the children aspect of it so far. But with the staff, they know the implications of divorce, of separation. You know, there's a lot of negativity surrounding separation and divorce. And a lot of people don't believe, and rightly so, they don't believe that it can end well in any scenario, especially when money's involved and when growing a business is involved. And I think our staff, they smell the instability and they're worried. And how do we come to them as a. Almost a united front and say, you guys have nothing to worry about we're going to keep growing this business. When we ourselves face a whole manner of conflicts with regards to certain business decisions, it's a really tricky one. I wouldn't even know how to approach it my staff and say, don't worry, you guys will be okay. When I myself and not sure if we're going to be okay, I could
- [16:34]
B
take a stab at it. I mean, look, let's just be clear. This is a hard situation. There are no super easy answers. There's no straightforward path. But you're going to have to carve some kind of path. So let's imagine what it could be. So you're right. Adult staff members are very different from the children that you're also having to create some stability for. But you know what? There's a benefit to your staff being adults who are not gonna. Who are gonna see right through smoke and mirrors, which is that you don't need to give them smoke and mirrors. They're adults. What do they care most about? I'll tell you what they care most about. What they care most about is making sure that they can bring money home and put food on their table for their families. So I would bet that if you sat down with your ex and said, all right, what are the three things that our staff cares about that we need to tell them and not BS them? Because we're going to need to answer their questions too. But what can we tell them? Here are some things that we can tell them. We can tell them we're not shutting the business down right now. To be honest with you, if I'm speaking as you to your team, I can't tell you right now, a year from now, if this business is owned by both of us or one of us. And if it's one of us, which one of us, we don't know the answers to that yet. But what it can tell you is that we're both very committed to make sure that this business continues to run and that you continue to have jobs. And how are we going to get there? Well, we are actively crafting that plan right now, and we're going to keep you posted on it. Obviously, this is complicated and it's very personal, but I want you to know that our top priority is that one way or another, this business survives and grows. Because what we have built here together, all of us, is a tremendous thing. And we value you. And we don't want you to feel like we have forgotten that in the cloud of all this. I think that you need to come up With a couple things that you can tell them that both you and your ex can agree upon, even if the thing that you're telling them is not some polished plan, but you're telling them something. And also, you're going to need to answer their questions. Because if you walk into a room, I can imagine it like, two of you walk into a room and you're like, everyone, don't worry. We got it all figured out. Not taking any questions. Thanks for your time. And you leave. Like, that's not going to. Nobody's going to stick around for that. So you're going to need to have an open dialogue with them. And I will tell you, I've talked to a lot of leaders who have navigated a lot of very hard situations, and they all tell me, all of them, that the most important thing that they did was create open lines of communication that nobody expected for them to have all the answers. Nobody expected them to say, everything here is perfect. What their teams did expect from them was acknowledgement. Acknowledgement of challenges, acknowledgement of uneasiness to say, I see that something is wrong here, and I am dedicating myself to fixing it. I can't exactly tell you how that's going to happen right now, but I know that I'm dedicated to it, and I know that I'm dedicated to having you around to help with it. And I think that, like, as a starting point, you guys need to get there, and then the next steps can follow.
- [19:55]
C
Yeah, I think from their perspective, whatever they're imagining in their minds is probably worse than the reality. You know, we often suffer more in imagination than in reality. And I'm assuming that's what's going on in the heads of your employees. And you said something very interesting, that you're just trying to get through the day right now. And so it sounds like you're just not drowning, but you're not swimming. And so there comes a point where that transition needs to happen, because you were swimming and you were swimming along quite nicely. But you can see that there are some landmines going on right now. So I think the first step is to connect with your ex about what the messaging is for the employees and what you can agree to be true. And what perhaps you can agree to be true is that there will be a business despite the ownership. Unless you're telling us, no, we want to sell the business, in which case then I wouldn't tell them there is going to be a business, but we're not sure about the ownership structure.
- [21:01]
D
I think we're definitely going to continue on with the business for the next year. And it's not the intention to sell it at all because. Because we're on the verge of growing. I don't think we could jump ship right now. There would be nothing to sell. But it does involve this decision around growth. It will involve us spending a lot of money and investing a lot of our time, a lot of the money that we've already made. That's a huge decision to make, I think, for any business when they're facing growth. Do we or don't we? Is it the right time? Everyone thinks it's crazy for me to be continuing with this business at this stage. They said just walk away now, but it's so tempting. It's so enticing, the idea of expanding and it's ready to go.
- [21:51]
C
Yeah. I mean, you can, in theory, co parent a business. Jason, you had, you had an interview with the Rock, right? And his ex wife that did this quite successfully or do this quite successfully.
- [22:02]
B
Yeah, you're right. I mean, I was going to bring this up at some point. For those who don't know the Rock, Dwayne Johnson and his first wife, Danny Garcia, they got divorced right around the same time that Danny became his manager. She was in finance and he was not happy with his management. And they decided that, you know, I think they thought Danny could just do a better job. But as they made that decision, their marriage was falling apart and they realized that they were actually very good in business together, even though they were not great personally together. And we didn't talk details about that too much, but they did tell me that it felt like a logic decision to them where they could see how working together in one way was going to be really valuable. And I don't know, I don't know these folks well enough to know, like, how exactly they got there, but I will tell you that they got there because they've built this thriving thing together. And now they're both remarried and they seem very comfortable with each other. So I think that it is possible if you want it. And that's the reason why, Nicole, at the very, very beginning, I asked you in that way of whether or not you want this right now you don't, and maybe you never will want to run this business with him. And that's fine. That's a decision to make. What I would suggest you at least block out, though, is everyone thinks it's crazy that we're going to run this business together or because the marriage has fallen apart. We clearly cannot run this business together. I kind of think based on podcast Nicole and I do not know you, Australian Nicole, outside of this conversation, but what you're telling us sounds like on the good side of how divorces go, right? In that there's open communication, you're able to interact without yelling at each other. There's clearly some stuff to build from here. And maybe it is that once the shock of the personal trauma and loss wears out, you have something to work towards together. I'm not advocating for one side or the other, but I am advocating for you to at least consider that there are a lot of options here and that you can step towards them. That's why I really like starting with the team. Stabilize the team and then figure out what your next steps are. But making sure that both of you are communicating with each other, you and your ex, on a business, terms of where you are and what your aspirations are. Stick around. Help Wanted. We'll be right back. Welcome back to Help Wanted. Let's get to it.
- [24:47]
D
Would it be a good idea to get someone in to manage the both of us?
- [24:53]
B
Yes, I was going to suggest that
- [24:55]
D
too because that's my role at the moment. So I'm the general manager of the business. Would it be worthwhile to get someone to. I don't know what the role would be called.
- [25:06]
C
So that's what I was going to ask. What is your org structure right now? What are your titles? What does it look like?
- [25:13]
D
So as I said, he's on the tools, so he's the head mechanic. So he is the team leader on the job. I coordinate everything from a business perspective, so partnerships, logistics. I'd call myself the general manager, it's head of operations. But I'd say I managed to everything. The rest of our staff are purely mechanics. They're bike mechanics. No one has any other role. Yeah, we have our bookkeeper, like our accounting team, but pretty much I sit at the top and then my ex husband is out there on the ground leading the teams. What's happened recently is because, you know, he's gone through a really rough time with the separation. They seem to be skipping him and coming straight to me when they have any issues or any logistic problems that they need solved, any questions, they used to go through him and now it seems to be happening that they're skipping him because he's sort of not really present. So he's present on the job, but you know, he's going through a rough time, as am I. I think I just can leave that all behind when I come to work.
- [26:19]
B
I think that thinking about this from an org structure perspective could be really useful. And I'll say why in a second. But I also just want to acknowledge that because he's not on the call, we're making some assumptions. Maybe you know the answer, but maybe he definitely doesn't want to be running this business with you or doesn't feel like he can or something like, you know, we don't know. Just operating under this assumption that he is thinking roughly the same way that you are. But I guess we don't. We don't know that. But let's just say for the sake of it that he does want to stay in this business for the same reasons that you do. You've built something, it provides a good living, you feel like there's an opportunity for it to grow and provide an even better living. It's worth seeing through in some way. You know, here there are some models to work off of. Not necessarily exactly in that a couple starts a business, gets divorced and continues with the business. But there are plenty of companies that were started by multiple co founders and then those co founders either found that they didn't work perfectly with each other or they had different visions or something. And you know what often happens is that they bring in a CEO, a professional CEO.
- [27:33]
C
That's what I was going to say. Jason. We agree for the first time ever.
- [27:39]
B
And then that person is functionally running the show. And the reason to do it that way is because you don't want someone whose job description is manage this complicated personal relationship between me and someone else. That's a job nobody signs up for. But if the two of you basically say, look, we have built this company, but we're no longer the right people to run it. We both want to be involved, we both have a lot to offer, we're both going to retain a fair amount of equity, but we need somebody to run this thing. It's a successful company. We built a successful company. We need a person to come in and call the shots and we're a senior part of that team now. At that point, it's complicated, but it's a lot less complicated.
- [28:18]
D
Sounds like the logical step to take. I think so.
- [28:21]
C
It sounds like all of the employees are mechanics. So there would be nobody that would be an heir apparent to that role. You would have to find somebody from
- [28:31]
D
the outside and they're not interested. So they're. Because it's bike mechanics. So there's not much that is businessy about this business. If that Makes sense. So no one is required to stand up there and give a presentation or all of that stuff is me. And it all falls on my shoulders. So I'm the only person that handles partnerships that goes in, that has the meetings with the commercial landlords and with the schools and things like that. So these guys, as Jason said, all they care about is putting food on the table for their family and staying in a job. But as I said, if we're going to start expanding into other states, that requires a significant amount of decision making. I just don't think me and my ex are up to the task. I would be up to the task with someone that was able to communicate properly with me and someone who I had a really decent working relationship with. But I. Yeah, I wouldn't say it's an ideal working relationship at the moment.
- [29:27]
C
Would you be okay with doing a process to hiring a CEO? I don't think it's a good idea for him to report to you. I think that you should both report to somebody else and ideally you could find that person relatively quickly and that could be part of the messaging for the employees. I don't know the health of the business. Can you pay somebody a salary to act as the CEO?
- [29:52]
D
We definitely can. When I came to you guys this morning, that was the question I had. Where do we put this money? What do we do at this stage of the business? Do we take it and run and just leave the whole thing to disappear? Or do we reinvest? Like, do we keep putting money into that business, into hiring a CEO, for example, and getting more vehicles on the road? But I definitely think at that decision making level, it needs to be someone else at the wheel.
- [30:22]
C
That seems really clear to all of us. I think that perhaps instead of growing the actual operations, I think that the next stage of growth is a managerial growth for a lot of reasons. Business reasons, personal reasons, morale of the staff. You know, I think that that is probably the next big investment you should make as a maturing company and as founders who are going through a divorce.
- [30:51]
B
Nicole, have you ever built a company like this and expanded it to different states?
- [30:58]
D
Never.
- [30:59]
B
Great.
- [30:59]
D
This is the first business I've ever owned.
- [31:01]
B
Oh, amazing. The reason I ask you that is because there is always an opportunity to see any kind of bad situation as useful in some way. Not to say that you wanted it, but if it's here, and the usefulness of this might be that this is the nudge that you need to bring in someone who has done this before, who could actually grow this business better than you can. And if this is something that you like, then you'll get a front row seat into what it looks like to really expand this thing. And then at some point in the future, when you guys build this out and maybe you do sell it, then you can go off and do another one, at which point you're very practiced in figuring out how to grow and expand something like this. And maybe you wouldn't have taken that step had you guys not gotten divorced, because there would have been no reason to bring in another person, or you would have said, oh, we shouldn't spend our money on this. But now a solution needs to be made. And it turns out that that solution also is a pretty good opportunity to find someone who can take this thing truly to the next level. And in so doing, both you and your ex find your natural roles in helping to build this company. I will tell you, if I were one of your employees and the solution turned out to be that you're bringing in a professional leader to grow this thing, I'd be thrilled. I would be relieved. And I have a feeling that the two of you would probably be relieved, too.
- [32:33]
D
I think you're right.
- [32:35]
C
Yeah. And I think when people tell you you're crazy, that's on them. But you can point to some of these examples. You can be like, well, is the rock crazy? You know, they figured out how to make it work.
- [32:46]
D
It's the biggest challenge that I had going through. The separation or the most upset, upsetting, and distressing part was that overwhelmingly the advice was, as the female, you should leave. Like, oh, here's the mechanic.
- [33:01]
B
I don't like that.
- [33:01]
D
Like, it's his skill. They didn't explicitly say as the female, but they were sort of like, you know, you should just step out. You know, you have that really huge marketing career behind you. And I thought, well, hang on a second. But I had a huge hand in building this business. It wouldn't have gotten to where it is today without me. So I found that really, really interesting that that was everybody's advice from both male and female families, friends, just get out. Like, you know, save yourself the conflict and get out of the business. And I actually stood up for myself and I stood my ground, and I decided to stay. And I'm really happy that I made that decision.
- [33:40]
B
Good for you. Just because someone knows how to make smoothies doesn't mean they know how to build smoothie King. It takes the skill, but it also takes the vision and the brand setting. And a lot of times and maybe this is what you experience. But a lot of times entrepreneurs at early stages are told from people close to them that you're doing something crazy and you are going to waste your time and money and energy. And the people who are saying that are well intentioned, but they also just don't know what it takes to build something like this. And you do?
- [34:12]
D
Yeah, I did.
- [34:15]
C
Why are you getting so emotional right now?
- [34:18]
D
I just. I was sort of transported back to a few years ago where I did listen to advice and I went and got myself a part time job and I just kept going back to our business while I was in this office and you know, I was doing what I needed to do, but my heart was not in this job and I kept finding myself. And until today, every time I have a spare moment, I'm going back to this business. I work until 1 2am in the morning on this business while raising children as a single mom. And there's a reason why I'm doing it. I'm not doing it because I have to do it. I'm educated, I can go out, I can get a job. But I love this. I built it with my own two hands and I don't want a separation or anything else for that matter to let it fall apart overnight. I think it's worth putting in the hard yards and I think it's worth those late nights and it's worth these difficult discussions with professionals like yourselves to try and reach some form of solution that allows me to continue with it.
- [35:26]
C
It's understandable that this has all been heavy and a lot and I think generally friends, especially when you're going through a breakup, just want you to be okay. They don't know all the context. They want the path of least resistance to make sure that you feel good asap. So that's understandable why they would give the recommendation to just leave. But it doesn't sound like that is where your heart is. It might be more difficult right now. But I would look at some of these founders, the two gens that started Rent the Runway. I think they figured out a different org structure and one was the CEO and one was the executive chairman woman. And look up some of these founders that have had maybe not husband and wife, but best friends or family or other things. And they have figured out a different structure. And I think you can too.
- [36:21]
D
I think so as well. And I did just want to add to what I was saying before that we had a huge week last week, the biggest week in the history of our business. And it was Ride to Work Week and to see how far we've come in the last six or seven years. From our first Ride to Work Week, when we were doing sort of one building and pulling off an operation like that, on that scale, after going through what we have been through, this really hard separation and sad time, it actually felt like an incredible achievement. And it can be done.
- [36:57]
B
Yeah, it can.
- [36:59]
D
Not easily, but it can be done.
- [37:02]
C
None of this is easy.
- [37:05]
B
I'm reminded a little bit of this is going to sound super weird. I was having a conversation with Michelle Pfeiffer, and I know, okay, Jason, no relation, but promise this isn't just a brag. And what she was telling me was that the process of starting a business for her was really strange because she has a perfume brand called Henry Rose. Her entire career had been about making movies. And movies are a totally different process than a business. In a movie, you work really hard towards some kind of project, and then it's done, right? It's done. You make the movie and it comes out in theaters and it's over. You walk away from it. It's just done. And some things in life are like that. We work towards some project and we never have to do it again. The thing that was really strange to her about the business is that she worked really hard to launch the business, and then it launched, and then it just keeps going and it's hard and it keeps changing. It keeps demanding more of her. And there's an endlessness to it. Just strange. And, you know, the thing is about basically everything in our lives is some things have a definitive endpoint and some things don't. And some things end before we thought they would. And some things go on longer than we thought they would. Or that maybe others advise that we should stick with them. But the journeys reveal themselves. And I feel like what I'm hearing from you is that this one's not over. One journey ended before you expected to. Another one is maybe going on longer than you expected to. And both of those are okay. That's just kind of how life is. So I think on this one, we're all in agreement that there's more journey to be had. And it's not to say that it won't be easy. It's not easy for Michelle Pfeiffer. It's not gonna be easy for you. But that doesn't mean that it's not worth doing.
- [39:18]
C
And you have some great modes of transportation along the way.
- [39:21]
D
That is true, indeed.
- [39:25]
B
Help Wanted is a production of Money News Network. Help Wanted is hosted by me, Jason
- [39:30]
A
Pfeiffer, and me, Nicole Lapvin. Our executive producer is Morgan Lavoy.
- [39:35]
C
Do you want some help?
- [39:36]
A
Email our helpline@helpwantedoneynewsnetwork.com for the chance to have some of your questions answered on the show. And follow us on Instagram @MoneyNews and TikTok. MoneyNewsNetwork for exclusive content and to see our beautiful faces. Maybe a little dance?
- [39:51]
B
Oh, I didn't sign up for that.
- [39:52]
C
All right, well, talk to you soon.
- [39:54]
D
Sa.