B (2:46)

Entrepreneur Magazine And I'm money expert Nicole Lapin. On Tuesdays, Jason and I answer the.

C (2:50)

Helpline and help callers solve their work problems.

A (2:53)

And on Thursdays, I give you way to improve your work and build a career or company you love.

B (2:58)

And it starts now.

C (3:02)

All right, Nicole and Jared. I haven't. Jared. Sorry, you're not Jared. Actually, that is the perfect way for me to open this episode, and I will explain right now.

A (3:14)

Okay.

C (3:15)

So, Nicole and Jason, I have not told you the topic that I want to hear you guys talk about today. Did I say it again or did I say Jason?

A (3:22)

No, this time you said Jason. Jared, just to be clear, is Nicole's actual husband. I am just the work husband. That is the difference between Jason and Jared. Morgan, continue. What are we talking about?

C (3:33)

Well, so interesting. My really brilliant idea for teeing up this episode topic was going to be to ask what you guys call each other, but you beat me to it. So Nicole and Jason, you guys call each other work husband. Work wife, Correct.

B (3:51)

Yeah.

A (3:52)

Yes. Which was something that I took the lead on from Nicole. I have never been comfortable, like, introducing that term to other people, but also I have never been comfortable using nicknames for anybody. This is, like, a weird thing about me. I have no nicknames for anybody, including my wife. So Nicole had to use the term work husband to me for probably a solid year before I embraced it and then used to the reverse of it. And I don't have any psychological explanation for why I feel not organic about that kind of thing, but now I've embraced it. I love it. I think it's great.

B (4:25)

You're just a weirdo. That's the explanation. You also don't like giving gifts or receiving gifts, but that's who you are, and I love you just the same.

A (4:35)

And that is why we got work married.

B (4:37)

Yes.

A (4:37)

Yeah.

C (4:38)

Well, that's such a great endorsement for work marriage. However, not everyone is that unabashed about the endorsement. And so I'm going to tell you about a Am I the asshole? Entry that went viral on Reddit? For anyone who doesn't know, we have talked about this on the show before, but am I the asshole? Is a thread on Reddit. If you're unfamiliar and people post a story where they have an argument or disagreement with someone and they basically ask the Internet to vote on who is the asshole in that story.

A (5:14)

Yeah.

C (5:14)

So the headline line for this one is, am I the asshole for getting my husband's work wife fired?

A (5:22)

Oh, the tangled web we weave.

C (5:25)

Yes.

B (5:26)

Tell me more.

C (5:27)

It goes like this. I 35 year old female have been married to my husband, 40 year old male, for 8 years. We've been together for almost 15 years. No cheating, no dishonesty, just trust and love.

A (5:40)

Sweet.

C (5:40)

He has an employee, 23 year old female that he is mentoring. I occasionally come with our son to do surprise visits and bring brownies. I have not met the 23 year old female before, but I've heard about her. She seemed nice. I was happy. She was learning a lot. We came by his office after our son's newest accomplishment as he wanted to see his dad with a plate of brownies. I ran into her and I asked where my husband was. She was like who are you and what do you want with my work husband? In a giggly voice.

A (6:12)

Okay.

C (6:13)

I simply stated, well, I'm here to bring brownies to him and his co workers and I am his wife. She looked shocked, her demeanor changed and she was pouting.

A (6:23)

Oh.

C (6:24)

I brought it up to my husband that I thought it was weird and I don't like the work husband, work wife culture as it's not appropriate. He agreed and has said that he never thought of her as anything but an employee. He came home about an hour ago and informed me they fired her due to some inappropriate actions and intentions. Oh, I feel bad for the girl as this is a high powered company and hard to get into. So was I the asshole for mentioning that I was uncomfortable with his employee calling herself his work wife only for her to end up losing her job?

B (6:56)

But did she lose her job because the real wife complained to the company?

A (7:03)

We don't really know why she lost her job.

C (7:05)

That's true. The way that I read it.

A (7:10)

Yeah.

C (7:10)

Is that maybe they this was like the final straw that broke the camel's back is kind of seems like it seems like after this, the person who wrote this Reddit entry brought this to her husband. Her husband was like I need to have a conversation with this employee. So maybe it wasn't the only thing.

A (7:28)

Wait, I just want to make sure I understand. The husband owns the company. Is that correct? Or is he the just the boss in a department and she works in that department.

C (7:41)

He seems to just be a boss in a department. He has a boss. He's not the owner of the company.

A (7:48)

Okay. So he's a manager of some sort and he's in his 40s. What was it? And. And this girl is like 20 something, 23. Okay, okay. All right.

B (8:00)

And so he brought it to his boss potentially and then his boss potentially had more complaints about this lady and Then fired the lady.

A (8:14)

That's what it sounds like. Okay, I have a clear verdict on this. Very clear. Do you guys? I feel like I have all the.

B (8:25)

Information I need deferred to the work hubs.

A (8:28)

Thank you, work wife. Here is my clear verdict. Let us remove the relationships here. Let's remove the husband, the actual husband and wife situation. And now let us imagine that any random person walked into that office and asked to see this guy, right? So just, it could be a client, it could be anybody. Anybody walked into this office and asked to see this guy, this manager guy, and encounters a 23 year old who in a giggly voice says, what do you want with my work husband? That would say to anybody what the fuck is going on at this company? Right? That is not, that's not a good look like that. That would deeply concern me if that is the way that she is conducting herself at work, that that creates all sorts of crazy rumors. That is no good. So like to me, this is not a thing about the work husband, work wife thing at all. This is about a 23 year old who clearly does not understand boundaries. We don't really know the situation here, but like whatever the case is, if a random person walks into the office and that is how she is referring to a 40 year old man in the office, there are problems. And that is why this wife, the actual wife who wrote this Reddit post, is not the asshole.

B (9:49)

Yeah, I do agree she's not the asshole. She may have colored like her interpretation of that encounter. Like was she pouty? We don't know exactly. The truth is probably somewhere between like maybe her lip injections looked a little voluptuous. We don't know. We don't know where what exactly the vibe was, but you can always assume that it was uncomfortable. Was it as uncomfortable as the wife perceived it? Who knows? But if she already had other complaints.

C (10:20)

Then.

B (10:22)

She was probably destined to go anyway. And she should have. She should have. It's a moniker that definitely has like a very hard line like that. There is no crossing. There's no actual pouty, romantic undertone allowed in the moniker to be clear.

C (10:43)

Well, Jason makes a great point. And now isn't it funny that I called him Jared, Nicole's husband's name. But I think the point that you made, Jason was a very good one around. This isn't necessarily about the work husband, work wife question at all, but that is very much what it became. In the comments of this Reddit post, people were saying, yeah, this, it's not that Deep work husband. Work wife is just a way to describe, like, a close relationship with a coworker where you're also friends and coworkers, whatever it is. Other people shared stories. There was this one that sticks out to me. There was a guy who had a close colleague at work, and at a Christmas party, she gave him like, a pretty close hug in front of a group of people and was like, so happy that you're my work husband. And he was like, trying to read the room and he was like, this looks a little romantic. And so he said, oh, I'm your. I'm more like your work sibling. Like, I only have one wife and that's my wife. And it really, yeah, it really upset his coworker because she felt really embarrassed. And there were more people responding than I thought, saying that it's inappropriate if you're married to call somebody else your work husband or wife. And so I was curious to hear, if you guys are surprised to hear that some people think about that. How do your actual wives and husbands feel about the fact that you guys have work husbands?

B (12:15)

Work wives.

C (12:16)

Nicole, how would you feel if Jared had someone that he worked with that he called his work wife?

B (12:23)

I'm going to ask. I'm going to ask him to come in. I'm going to get his thoughts. Oh, yeah, Jen can bring her thoughts.

A (12:30)

Jen, my wife is not here right now, but I know exactly what she would say because we've talked about it, not because it was a conversation topic for us, but I think because somebody asked us about it, like, how do you feel about that? And the answer is Jen doesn't care at all and nor would I expect her to. And Jen has always been like a solo operator, and if she has a team, it's usually for a short period of time. So she's never really even had the circumstance to have a quote, unquote work husband. But if she did, I wouldn't care. But also, Jen and I are very relaxed about all that kind of stuff. And I know that there is a world of people who are very rigid in the lines that they draw in their relationships, and that that is, like, not a relationship that I could be in, but I know that exists. So it doesn't surprise me that a lot of people in Reddit were worked up about this. But to me, yeah, like, to me it's very clear that, like, work wife and work husband is a very platonic phrase. And I'll give you, like, in contrast, I have some friends whose names I won't use here. Obviously. Although I know at least one of them listens to the show. Hello. And who? So it's a married couple. They've been married for a long time. They have a great relationship, and they have work crushes who they talk about to the other. Like, he is aware of her work crush. She is aware of his work crush. They've sometimes talked about it in therapy together when it starts to feel a little too, like, emotional. And the way they describe it to, to us is they are, they're natural flirts and they kind of like having somebody in the office who, in a very appropriate way, like, it has to be balanced. This can't be like the 40 year old and the 23 year old. There's a lot of. There's a lot of potential for that to go wrong. But, you know, if it's a pretty lateral relationship, they like it. It's like a fun addition to their lives and it gives them a little jolt of energy. And he doesn't care that she has a work garage and she doesn't care that he has a work crush. And it's like they're. They're flirting with these people. Now, that is not for everybody, but, like, that is in stark contrast, I think, to work husband. Work wife, which is a very different thing.

B (14:43)

Yeah. I think generally people that have a problem with it have some other issues in their relationship.

A (14:49)

But let's ask, let's find out if Jared has other.

B (14:52)

The real husband.

A (14:54)

Yeah. All right. So, yeah, so just to paint the picture here, Nicole and Jared are now squished into one chair, squished as close as they can to a, to the one microphone and sharing up a pair of headphones. So. Hello, Jared. Welcome to Help Wanted.

C (15:06)

Hello.

D (15:07)

Thanks for having me.

A (15:08)

Thanks for being here. Okay, what's the question, Morgan, you want to ask it?

C (15:13)

Sure. Without giving you any more context than this, Jared, how do you feel about Nicole calling Jason, her work husband, as her real life husband who got married to her in a ceremony? How does that term make you feel?

D (15:30)

We got real married. Wait, how does the term work husband make me feel as her real husband? I feel nothing. Like, I have no emotion about it. I know Jason and like, they've got a long, amazing relationship. And I have complete trust in Nicole and I don't have any. I have no emotions. I don't know, which is not something I rarely say.

B (15:56)

But, yeah, he's Mr. Emotion and Morgan is my work wife, to be clear. How do you feel about that?

D (16:01)

Yeah. And similarly, like, if I had a work wife or whatever. Like, Nicole would be fine with it, too. It's just the nature of our dynamic.

C (16:07)

Would you be fine with it, Nicole?

B (16:09)

Yeah, I know my place. And also, we're entrepreneurs and we care so much about what we do. And I think that having. I can think of a few of your colleagues that I would assume you would call them something like that and makes total sense to me.

D (16:26)

Yeah. I think the spirit of the. That nomenclature is really just like your partner. It's maybe overused in a lot of contexts and it has connotations associated with it. But as a general matter, it's just your trust trusted partner who you're simpatico with. And on the same. You operate on the same frequency and there's trust. And that's a. It's really important that your real. My real wife Nicole has like, real trusted partners like Jason and Morgan and others that. Morgan, you're her work wife, too. I don't know. This is a fun way to frame a really meaningful relationship.

A (17:02)

Yeah. So, Jared, had you given a different answer, this would have taken a real turn because just before you sat down, Nicole was like, if somebody has a problem with the term work wife or work husband, there's some other problem going on. And then you walked in and we put the question right to you.

B (17:17)

But I have that much confidence.

D (17:19)

There you go.

B (17:20)

You know, I think Jason said the same thing about Jen. I think that if there's some weirdness that's on the relationship that's not on the moniker.

D (17:30)

Yeah. I hear that it speaks to the security of the individuals. And there you have to be in a fairly mature, comfortable state in your relationship dynamic to have that level of trust and not be threatened at all by that sort of language.

A (17:44)

Yeah, yeah, I totally agree. But. But the thing that we haven't talked about yet, which is maybe an interesting thing to explore, is what is required for a appropriate work husband, wife relationship. And the reason I'm asking that is like, something about this guy is 40 and he's a manager and she is a young person who is being mentored by him. Like, that feels like a weird place to put the work husband, work wife thing, because to me, work husband, work guys has always felt very like, equal. You already have to be on equal footing the way that in a real marriage you are on equal footing. And I can see how if you start applying it to relationships where there's some kind of power imbalance or some other thing happening, that then it could, if not be the wrong thing for those people, signal the wrong Thing to other people.

D (18:39)

Yeah, totally. I would agree with you, Jason. In that context, it feels misused. I too feel like the work wife, work husband idea is about partnership and about being on the same wavelength and trust. If that's more of a mentor mentee relationship. I don't have any of the context of specific story, but like this idea that, like masking something that's maybe inappropriate or maybe something else as that style of relationship could have some downstream negative impacts. For sure.

B (19:07)

Yeah. I think when I thought of who might be your work wife or if you were to call somebody that, it would be like in your C suite. Right. It wouldn't be like, oh, yeah, an intern.

D (19:20)

Totally.

B (19:21)

Just the women like that were in the same.

D (19:23)

If I called my intern my work wife, that would be a red flag.

A (19:27)

Right? I agree with that.

C (19:29)

Absolutely. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. God, that was on the job description. Looking for an intern, slash, work wife to help me with. So I think the age and power dynamic is a really great kind of distinction. Yes. Parameter. I'm also thinking about who I would and wouldn't call a work wife. Husband, Whatever. And I wonder if, Nicole, you started calling Jason your work husband after you had already met Jen, Jason's actual wife. And the reason why I ask is because I wonder if Nicole, there's any level of you kind of like feeling it out to be like, okay, Jen is clearly chill. Jason and Jen, like, very solid. Was there any calculus of how the partner might project or read into it or was it just more of like, I know Jason is going to be fine with it.

B (20:23)

Yeah. I spent good time with Jen and I think that maybe subconsciously, I don't think consciously, but I would never want to put anybody in a weird position. And also just in getting to know Jason, how secure and solid their relationship is. I don't know, perhaps understanding that you have a buy in from the partner or understanding that the relationship is in a good spot if you're getting a sense that they're jealous or there's some weirdness. Yeah. I would err on the side of caution.

A (20:55)

Yeah, I agree with that. As you're asking, Morgan, I was trying to remember the chronology with Nicole, and I just can't. Like, we've known each other too long. I can't really remember when any particular thing happened, but what does this actually represent? Like, why do people use this phrase at all?

B (21:11)

The husband has to go.

D (21:13)

Yeah, my. The real husband has to go. Work husband, you're in charge.

A (21:17)

Okay. I appreciate it. Thank you for passing the baton back.

C (21:20)

As in the mic.

B (21:22)

Thank you.

A (21:22)

Yeah. So what is actually being signaled here is an interesting question. There was a movie. I wish I could remember what it was, and I could remember the exact language. So this reference is really meaningless. But there is a scene, and there's a dad and a teenager, and for some reason, the teenager is asking the dad about what a good marriage is. And that answer was something like, it's someone you like being in a foxhole with. It was something like that, which I thought was a really nice answer. Right. Because foxhole is not a comfortable place. To be in a foxhole is to make sure that you are protecting the other people in the foxhole and that there is. There are attacks around you, but that you want to be there with that person. And that's. That's a really fun way to think about it, because especially once you have a kid, you discover that, you know, not every moment is an easy one. And sometimes it really does feel like you're in a foxhole. And also, you're just gonna face all sorts of other challenges. Right. I think about all the things in my marriage so far, my actual marriage that I've. That I've faced, whether that's being fired from a job or being sued or, like, there's all sorts of, like, bad things that happen in life. And you want to have a person who can be in the foxhole with you. And so I really like that. And then I think there is a work version of that. Right. Like, to work closely with someone is to navigate all sorts of challenges, different challenges, but challenges all the same. And those challenges can feel like they have very high stakes or they can just be really emotionally draining or something. And so you want to be with. You want to have someone you like being in a foxhole with so that if. If you're in a sticky situation or if you don't know what to do or you just had a thing happen, you're like, I don't know what that was like. That you can turn to this other person and get answers. And I think a very important distinction, as sometimes, depending on the circumstance for me, let's say the work wife is the right person to talk to versus the real wife. Right? If I have a. If I have a particular work problem or something that I just know, Nicole, frankly, will understand better than Jen will. Jen will listen, and Jen will do the best to give advice, but, like, she doesn't have the same life experience that Nicole does. Sometimes Nicole is the better person to talk to about something like that. Is a good person to have in your life. And they fit a lot of the same criteria. And therefore, I think that is the thing that's being signaled. And maybe the final thing is that you're just using the term to consistently reinforce to the other person that you are that person that I trust and that I am that person who you can trust. It's a weird thing to say to somebody over and over again, right? If I. If every time I spoke to the both of you, I was like, morgan, Nicole, I am a person you can trust, and you are people I can trust. That's weird. That sounds creepy. But to have a kind of just term to use that reinforces that without having to verbally explain it every time, I think that's a healthy reason to be using this kind of thing.

C (24:20)

Yes.

B (24:21)

And also bringing in a little trauma. Mama, like, background. Referring to people as family has always been tricky for me too, because family was always chaotic. And so when you want to connote that somebody is really close to you or like, you chose that person. I was like the chosen.

A (24:39)

You always use a term, chosen family.

B (24:41)

Yeah, yeah. And when somebody says, oh, you know your family. Well, my family, me over something feels like home for me specifically. Like, it feels chaotic and not safe. And it can be different for everybody. But I think using that terminology has always felt better to me. In general, you choose your husband, your work husband, your real husband, she's your friend. And so I think that connotes, like, the trust that you're trying to get across for me specifically. But I do think in the Reddit thread, the guy might be the asshole, because if there's any flirty, weird vibe, I think on either side, and even if it's not reciprocated, like, you can tell if somebody has some weird, inappropriate vibe, like, I just wouldn't engage in that at all. There is negative, 0.0 negative, however negative. You can get, like, of a anything but platonic vibe here with all of us.

A (25:44)

Yes.

B (25:45)

I can say unequivocally. And so thank you so much. If a guy is feeling any flirty vibe or if a guy is not telling his wife, I think the guy is the asshole.

A (25:59)

Yeah. So there are gaps in this story that make it hard to assess exactly what was going on, but I think that you could extrapolate something and make it go in either direction. So, for example, to extrapolate that the real wife says to the 23 year old, he's my husband, and then the 23 year old looks shocked. If that is a correct Assessment, then a thing that you could extrapolate is that this guy has never told this 23 year old that he is married.

B (26:34)

Yes. Or where is his ring?

A (26:35)

Right? Yes. And if that's the case, then there are problems. But here's another thing that you could extrapolate, which is that why did that guy go to his boss? He might have gone to his boss because if it was me, if this is the situation with me, and then Jen was like so kind of weird that I popped into the office and this 23 year old girl was like, what are you here to see my work husband for? Who's this girl? I would be like, she said what now? And then I would want to go to the. I'd want to go to the superior as fast as possible. Be like, listen, something is out of hand here and I just want to make clear that I didn't set this in motion and this has to get cleared up because I can't have this girl going around saying that. So then of course he would have run to the boss because he doesn't want to be accused of something. So it could go in either direction. We just don't have enough information.

C (27:24)

Do you guys want to hear from the husband?

A (27:27)

Oh, I didn't know we had that.

C (27:29)

So the person who originally wrote the Reddit entry commented and said this. My husband read the post and some of the many comments and he wanted to add his own input to clear up any confusion. And then next paragraph says husband here, Cola.

A (27:45)

Hello, husband.

B (27:45)

Hello, husband entered the chat.

C (27:48)

So I approached HR with these remarks that my wife told me. They sat us down and we had a meeting with the 23 year old. She confirmed that she said those remarks and made some more passes saying she felt safe and secure and thought I'd be the perfect man for her, that my wife wasn't good enough for me, et cetera.

A (28:09)

What? In the HR meeting.

B (28:11)

Oh my God.

C (28:12)

HR shut her down. They said these actions and words are not acceptable in this company. They then said that there are multiple complaints regarding her behavior, not just for me. So they decided that she was a liability. We do hope she gets whatever help she needs she can do.

A (28:29)

Yeah. Jesus.

C (28:31)

I'm not interested in anyone else. I've only had eyes for my wife, seeing her support me at my lowest and push me to be the best I can. My wife is always welcome to visit me at work and for those asking, sorry, but her brownie recipe is secret and she won't even share it with me.

A (28:46)

Okay, that. That feels like everything that I need to know to confirm my verdict, which is that the wife is not the asshole. And something is very wrong with the situation with that girl. I. That is off the rails. And she was, like, talking like that in the HR meeting. This girl is divorced from reality and now also divorced from her imaginary work husband. Help Wanted is a production of Money News Network. Help Wanted is hosted by me, Jason.

B (29:16)

Pfeiffer, and me, Nicole Lapin. Our executive producer is Morgan Lavoy. Do you want some help? Email our helpline@helpwantedoneynewsnetwork.com for the chance to have some of your questions answered on the show. And follow us on Instagramoneynews and TikTokoneyNewsNetwork for exclusive content and to see our beautiful faces.

C (29:36)

Maybe a little dance?

A (29:37)

Oh, I didn't sign up for that.

B (29:38)

All right, well, talk to you soon.