Loading summary
Transcript219 lines
- [00:00]
A
I started my business as a sole proprietorship and at the time that made sense. I was just trying to get moving. But looking back I realized if I had known what I know now, I probably would have structured it as an S corp at the start. Instead I had to switch later, which was a pain. And you know that is true of many things. There are small decisions that we would have approached differently if only we had known. But you don't have to learn from your mistakes like I did. You can do it right the first time under the guidance of of today's sponsor, Northwest Registered Agent has been helping small business owners and entrepreneurs launch and grow businesses for nearly 30 years. They are the largest registered agent and LLC service in the US with over 1500 corporate guides who are real people who know your local laws and can help you and your business every step of the way. Northwest gives you access to thousands of free guides, tools and attorney drafted documents to help you run your business with with confidence. No upsells, no selling your data. Northwest makes life easy for business owners. They don't just help you form your business, they give you all the free tools that you need after you form like operating agreements, meeting minutes and thousands of guides that explain all the ins and outs of running a business. Don't pay hundreds or thousands of dollars for what you can get from Northwest for free. Visit northwestregisteredagent.com help wanted free and start using free resources to build something amazing. Get more with Northwest Registered Agent at. Again, here's the website northwestregisteredagent.com help wanted
- [01:47]
B
free we've had some big wins at my company this year. The kind of wins that mean it's time to expand. Bringing new people onto the team isn't something I take lightly. These people are going to help shape the content that goes out into the world with my brand and my name attached to it. So when I'm hiring, I need to make sure my job listing lands in front of the best possible people. Not just good, the best. Which means this is a job for Indeed. Sponsored Jobs. Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Less stress, less time, more results. When you need the right person to cut through the chaos, this is a job for Indeed. Sponsored Jobs and listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit to help get your job the premium status it deserves@ Indeed.com podcast just go to Indeed.com podcast right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Indeed.com podcast terms and conditions apply. This isn't your job. This is a job for indeed sponsored jobs. Jason, would you like to vent?
- [03:08]
A
I don't get angry often but this pisses me off. ATMs that charge you money to get money. You know where you have to pay a fee to get your own money. I hate that.
- [03:19]
B
Ugh. I hate that too.
- [03:20]
A
I travel a lot. I also live in a neighborhood with a lot of these ATMs. I am constantly getting hit with fees until now because now there's Chime.
- [03:30]
B
Wait. Chime can help you avoid those fees. Tell me more.
- [03:34]
A
When you bank with Chime, you are never far from a free ATM. That's because they have over 47,000 fee free ATMs in Target, CVS, 7/11 all across the country. That's more than the top three national banks combined. And that's not all Chime does. Chime understands that every dollar counts. So when you set up a direct deposit through Chime, you get access to free fee free features like free overdraft coverage, getting paid up to two days early with direct deposit and more.
- [04:05]
B
CHIME is not just smarter banking. It is the most rewarding way to bank join the millions who are already banking fee free today. It just takes a few minutes to sign up. Head to chime.comhelpwanted that is chime.com helpwanted
- [04:22]
C
Chime is a financial technology company, not a bank. Banking services a secured Chime, Visa credit card and MyPay line of credit provided by the Bancor Bank NA or Stride Bank NA. MyPay eligibility requirements apply and credit limit ranges $20 to $500. Optional services and products may have fees or charges. See chime.com feesinfo advertised annual percentage yield with Chime+ status only. Otherwise 1point percent APY applies. No min balance required. Chime card on time Payment history may have a positive impact on your credit score. Results may vary. See chime.com for details and applicable terms.
- [04:43]
A
Instead of my usual Help Wanted solo episode, today I'm gonna do something different and special because I want to tell you about one of the wildest stories I've ever heard. It is a story that has become a big part of my life in fact, because it's something that my wife has been working on for many years years and today she is finally able to share this whole story with the world and I think that you should know about it. So let me back up. My wife's name is Jen Miller and she is a journalist and author. Six years ago she was inside of a California prison reporting a story. And she met an inmate named Trung. And Trung told her an insane story. It was the story of his life and how he ended up there. Here's the basic gist of identical twin brothers. One of the twins stabs and kills a man at a party. There is a lineup. The innocent twin is identified as the killer and both brothers stay silent. So the wrong twin goes to prison while the other goes free, facing his demons on the outside. And it gets crazier from there. Jen heard this story and she had all sorts of questions. Like for example, to start, why did these guys stay silent? Over the next six years, she gained those brothers trust, she learned their story and she put together a six part podcast like you have never heard. It is called Blood Will Tell. If you like true crime podcasts, this is right up your alley. But it is more than just true crime. It is a deeper story about family and truth and and impossible decisions. And it's also about second chances, because true crime stories rarely end the way that this one does. Blood Will Tell is available wherever you get your podcasts right now. And today here on Help Wanted, I'm going to play the first episode for you. And you'll recognize her voice if you've listened to Help Wanted because she's been on many episodes. Look, I have watched Jen work on this project for years. There were so many times where it almost fell apart, but she wouldn't let it go because she knew it was an important story to and now finally, it is here. I'm excited for you to hear the first episode of Blood Will Tell. And then you can find the rest by searching for Blood Will Tell. Wherever you are currently hearing my voice right now, here is the first episode.
- [07:15]
D
In front of me, there's a group of acting students. The youngest ones are in their 20s. The oldest is over 70. And they're intently focused on their teacher. She's a woman with wiry salt and pepper hair, and she's leading them through an exercise. She calls out two conflicting emotions. Let's start with love and fear.
- [07:39]
B
Let your movements express love and fear combined.
- [07:44]
D
Suddenly, these actors are circling the room, silently pantomiming feelings of love and fear. They're warming up to rehearse the final act of Othello, a play about jealousy and deception. I'm here in California on assignment for the Washington Post. I'm reporting a piece about Shakespeare as therapy, how these stories about our deepest humanity can help people heal from their trauma. Because Shakespeare's plays, at a core level, they're about what human beings do to each other. What we're capable of at our best and our worst. I start talking to one of the actors. Truong is friendly and soft spoken. Literally. I have to lean in close in order to hear him. He's mid-20s, clean shaven, with impeccably pomaded hair. He tells me he's a substance abuse counselor, and that tracks. The way he looks at me, I can tell he's really listening. And when I ask him, Trung says there's a lot of reasons he wanted to join this Shakespeare group.
- [08:58]
E
I had a lot of opportunities to kind of showcase myself, and actually I did a break dancing too.
- [09:07]
D
He loves to perform, and he likes these plays. How their universal themes of sacrifice, loss and love have helped him access his emotions to see himself more clearly. He says these plays have allowed him to confront the pain he's caused. I ask him what he means by that, and to my surprise, he doesn't hesitate. He launches into a story that I cannot believe is real. A story that feels like Shakespeare himself could have written it. A story that starts with Trung's identical twin brother. Shakespeare was fascinated by siblings. There's Ophelia and Laertes, Edmund and Edgar, Sebastian and Viola. In both his comedies and his tragedies, he makes them compete for the attention and approval of their parents. He tests the limits of their love for one another. And he pushes them apart, sometimes violently. Shakespeare himself was the father of twins Judith and Hamnet. And when Hamnet died at the age of 11, Shakespeare began to process this very particular grief. In his plays, he writes Twelfth Night about twins separated in a shipwreck. The action of the play is built around mistaken identities, but it's really about the unique bond these siblings share and what happens when that tie is broken. Trung knows all about this, and it's a tale he's now pouring out to me. Six years earlier, Trung tells me his twin Ahn got into a fight at a birthday party. By the time it was over, the twins had embarked on a journey that would forever change both of them. Not just who they were as individuals, but who they were to each other. So where is your brother right now? As Trug and I talk, his fellow thespians are rehearsing right there beside us. And I hear Othello mourn. You must speak of one that loved not wisely, but too well. I can see how Trung and An are guilty of having loved each other too well, if not always wisely. Twins bonded through DNA and Also hardship brothers who were best friends, who trusted each other completely, who would have followed each other anywhere, even if it meant losing absolutely everything. From wondery and campside media, I'm jen miller and this is blood will tell. This is episode one, Shakespeare in San Jose. It's a Saturday evening in January when 18 year old trung knocks on the door of his mother brother's bedroom. They live in the same home, but they haven't seen each other much lately. Trung's been swamped juggling a sales job at T Mobile, a full course load at college and finishing his Eagle Scout certification. And Trung is missing his best friend. But there's a party tonight.
- [12:56]
E
We were adulting pretty much for the first time like that. So these parties like it felt like a dragon, but at the same time like, oh, let's just go have fun. It sounds like a good way to relax.
- [13:08]
D
Ahn looks up from his bed, which is littered with textbooks.
- [13:12]
E
I didn't want to go. I had homework.
- [13:15]
D
Trung is surprised. He's the one typically concerned about how today's choice will impact tomorrow's outcome. That's how. He's two semesters ahead in college. But more recently, Ahn has felt the pressure to keep up with Trung. Ahn begs, let me study. Trung's not having any of it.
- [13:34]
E
You know what? We deserve this. Let's just go and have fun.
- [13:39]
D
Maybe this party will be a good way to blow off steam for both of them. So on relents.
- [13:46]
E
All right, let's do it. It's hyped up. Pick our outfits.
- [13:52]
D
The party is a 21st birthday thrown by a friend of Trunk's girlfriend. There's a black and white theme. The twins pull on their true religion jeans and long sleeve black shirts. When they were little kids, their parents often dressed them the same. So this it's like a fun throwback. And tonight it makes it almost impossible to tell them apart. They're both five nine, around 160 pounds. They have a few physical differences though. Trung's face is clean shaven and more narrow. And Ahn has a sparse mustache and the shadow of a mole over his lip. These minor physical differences are going to be crucial for what's to come for the both of them. After a final fit check in the mirror, they're ready to head out. Trung drives his brother and their girlfriends, we're calling them Monica and Carly, to a well appointed split level home in the foothills of San Jose, California. It's a short trip and a world away from the affordable housing complex where the twins grew up. They walk past a rock garden and flower beds, following the thump of the. Trung enters the party and takes a quick scan. He's impressed.
- [15:20]
E
It was like pretty bougie. They had a DJ and everything.
- [15:26]
D
He goes to pour himself a drink.
- [15:28]
E
They opened like a cooler and I saw shot glasses made out of ice.
- [15:34]
D
Trung makes his way through the house. The guests are mostly Vietnamese like him. Some of them are college kids, but he doesn't recognize them. They are at four year schools, not community college like him and Ahn. Trung is relieved. In recent months he has been trying and largely failing to avoid situations and people he knows are trouble.
- [15:57]
E
When we would go out with specific individuals, she would always pop off, right? I would always feel the need to jump in and participate.
- [16:06]
D
But the vibes here are good. The booze is flowing, pot brownies are being passed around and the music is pumping.
- [16:16]
E
It was turned down. For what? By Lil Jon. Like that song just came out.
- [16:24]
D
Trung and Ahn make a beeline to the beer pong table where they proceed to completely bite it.
- [16:30]
E
We played horribly because didn't we sat under the table. Yeah, we had to sit on the table, man. We trolled like we didn't make any shots. It was embarrassing.
- [16:42]
D
Trung is so happy to have his brother here. It's been so long since they've simply hung out like this as brothers. Around them, everyone is getting drunk or high or both. Trung is fully in the moment. He's making the rounds, a beer in his hand. For a while, he loses track of his girlfriend Monica. That is, until she heads toward him, clearly upset. She says a guy at the party was so drunk he fell down. But when she and some other women tried to help him up, he hit them. Trung is furious and starts to feel angry with himself.
- [17:22]
E
I wanted to do something to confront him for punching Monica. I'm going to show you, right?
- [17:30]
D
But before Trung can act, he notices that Ahn is even more heated up over the whole thing.
- [17:36]
E
And I actually went over to my brother. He was super drunk.
- [17:41]
D
Ahn usually has no problem jumping into a fight, and he's had plenty of liquid courage.
- [17:46]
E
I grabbed a knife from his pocket.
- [17:49]
D
Trung slips Ahn's knife into his own pocket. He doesn't want his brother to do something stupid and dangerous.
- [17:58]
E
I was like, oh, you know what? You know what? Like, calm down, let's just go.
- [18:03]
D
Other people are getting increasingly upset over the guy who is rumored to be hitting girls too. The hosts decide it's time to wrap this up. Everybody out. But not everybody's complying.
- [18:14]
E
There was at least like 10 guys standing outside waiting for. For that guy that was beating up girls to come out.
- [18:24]
D
One of those 10 guys is AHN, and he starts arguing with another guest about the rumors. The argument quickly turns physical. Trung runs over, tries to pull his brother back, but Ahn breaks free. Then suddenly, Ahn is on the ground wrestling with the guy. A bunch more people rush in. At this point, it's unclear how much danger Ahn is really in, but in
- [18:49]
E
Trung's mind, he was vulnerable. He was on the ground. So, like, I had to be the protector.
- [18:57]
D
Now that's usually Ahn's role, but not this time. Trung runs toward the fight, telling people
- [19:05]
E
to get out of the way, get out of the way.
- [19:07]
D
And as he approaches, he makes a devastating, devastating decision.
- [19:11]
E
In that moment, I pulled out the knife.
- [19:15]
D
He considers wounding the guy who's fighting on maybe somewhere on one of his legs. An action that would immediately stop the fight without causing too much harm. But then suddenly
- [19:30]
E
I was like, oh, there's just so much bl.
- [19:37]
D
You know, when you speed up a video, watch it at 3x speed. What happens next is kind of like that. A wild, disorienting blur. Ahn extracts himself from the pile of people tussling trunk calls for him and the girlfriends to get going. As they rush away, someone at the party calls 911. Others are crying. Everyone is in shock. The twins and their girlfriends are silent as Trung drives them back to Monica's house, where the brothers are currently living. Ahn is pretty much passed out in the backseat and covered in blood, though he doesn't seem to be injured, just a few scratches. Trung doesn't have any serious injuries either, but his mind is spinning. What the fuck did I just do? Trung pulls his Honda Civic into the garage. Everyone climbs out of the car except for Ahn. He can barely stand, so the others help him.
- [20:41]
E
He was pretty faded, but me, I was. I was wide awake.
- [20:49]
D
Wide awake. With red stains down his shirt and jeans.
- [20:54]
E
There's just so much blood on me,
- [20:57]
D
on both of them. Trung tells the others, I'll take care of this.
- [21:03]
E
I need to collect everyone's clothes to put in the washer.
- [21:08]
D
He starts the load and returns to the garage. He's telling himself, you're the responsible one.
- [21:16]
E
I need to protect myself and all the people who are involved by getting rid of all the evidence.
- [21:22]
D
The back seat is covered in blood, where his brother Was passed out. But first, Trung has a more pressing problem. The switchblade, also stained red. He takes it to the sink.
- [21:35]
E
I just put a lot of soap on there and just really clean the knife as hot as I can handle the water. I can't have this around me. This is hard evidence and I need to get rid of it right away. And I made a decision to. To drive.
- [21:52]
D
Trung borrows his friend's car, already parked at the house. He slips the knife into a secret compartment inside the glove box. Then he heads back out into the night.
- [22:09]
E
Had a little bit with the window open and it was cool. And there was nobody around.
- [22:16]
D
He drives in silence, trying not to think about the party, the fight, the stabbing.
- [22:24]
E
Once I got into the woods, it was like really dark.
- [22:28]
D
He's driving toward an area in the foothills where the twins and their friends used to goof around in high school. They'd go there, drink 40s, and scare themselves shitless over ghost stories. But Trung is no longer a high school kid messing around in these woods. Now he's the main character in a horror story of his own making. He turns from the main road to a smaller one. He pulls over. He shuts the car door as softly as he can.
- [23:03]
E
But it was still so loud because there was really no sound.
- [23:08]
D
Trung enters the silent thicket of trees and starts to walk. The underbrush loud as firecrackers beneath his feet.
- [23:17]
E
I really didn't know what I was doing. I was just thinking like, oh, this is what people do when they're watching all those movies, right?
- [23:26]
D
A quarter mile into the woods, Trung stops. He looks around. There's nothing. Just black.
- [23:35]
E
And I pull the knife out.
- [23:37]
D
His brother's knife. Black handle, black blade.
- [23:41]
E
I gripped it, felt the coldness from the knife, the edge of the blade, you know, try to be careful. And I was like, I'm gonna throw it as far as I can.
- [23:57]
D
Trung holds his breath, lifts the knife over his shoulder.
- [24:01]
E
It was just like throwing a football. And there's nobody around. So no one will ever see it. No one would even know. That's what I hoped.
- [24:26]
D
The next morning, Trung wakes up in his and Monica's sky blue bedroom.
- [24:30]
E
The blinds were really bright. The sun was shining in.
- [24:35]
D
For a moment, it's calm. Like last night never happened. But just for a moment.
- [24:42]
E
It took me about 30 seconds. I just knew that things would never be the same again.
- [24:47]
D
He doesn't know what else to do other than try to act like everything is normal. Maybe if he just keeps Putting one foot in front of the other. Last night will soon be nothing more than a bad dream. A night where nobody was seriously hurt. He climbs out of bed and walks past the nightstand and the bureau cluttered with makeup and accessories. He gets ready for work in the living room so he won't disturb Monica.
- [25:15]
E
I put on my black T Mobile shirt, put on some slacks, pair of dress shoes.
- [25:21]
D
Chung looks at his Honda. He tried to clean the back seat after returning last night, but the stains linger. So he takes Monica's car and clocks into his sales job at T Mobile. Back at the house, his brother Ahn wakes up with a head crushing hangover.
- [25:38]
E
Look over my shoulder. And Carly, she was there, there but
- [25:44]
D
truly and exceptionally furious.
- [25:47]
E
She was just so upset. Just that look like of disgust. And I'm like, wait, what's wrong? And then she said, do you know what happened last night? And I was like, no, wait, wait. What happened?
- [26:02]
D
What happened, she announces, is that Ahn got into a fight at last night's birthday party. Ahn racks his brain.
- [26:11]
E
I don't remember fighting. I do remember just going to the party and, you know, having a good time.
- [26:18]
D
And then Carly tells him, Trung stabbed the guy. You were fighting.
- [26:23]
E
I was like, oh.
- [26:27]
D
Whether it's the shock or the immensity of his hangover, Ahn is not processing this news. All he can do is shove it away and try and have a normal Sunday with his girlfriend. First step Food. They're teenagers. They're hungry.
- [26:46]
E
We went for lunch at this Asian fusion place where we always like to go. I got a text from my friend. He just sent me a link of the Mercury news and they talked about the party. That person died. That's when all the emotions, that's when reality hit. And I was like, we gotta go.
- [27:17]
D
Trung is working when Monica calls him.
- [27:20]
E
She says that the guy went to the hospital and he died at the hospital. It was like, like my sense of hearing. I hear like certain echoes, but just like my whole body, the energy changed.
- [27:40]
D
He tells his boss there's a family emergency and rushes out of the store and jumps into his car.
- [27:47]
E
That was when all the emotions hit me.
- [27:50]
D
Disbelief that a man is dead, regret for making such a catastrophic decision. And panic.
- [27:59]
E
My life would change forever. Now I would never be in school again. Started working at a really good place for my age. And all of that is over.
- [28:13]
D
When he gets home. Ana's there waiting.
- [28:16]
E
Right when we see each other. We kind of fell to the ground and just kind of balled out, cried.
- [28:24]
D
The brothers hold Tightly to each other. They're terrified. It's only a matter of time before the police arrive and start asking questions to piece together which twin is guilty of what. Because Trung might be guilty of homicide, but Ahn was the one fighting in the first place. They need to make a plan. And there are only two options. Stay and face the authorities or flee.
- [28:51]
E
Okay, so do I go on the run? Do I book some kind of ticket to go to Vietnam? Try to hide out there?
- [29:00]
D
The twins haven't been back to their native Vietnam since they immigrated here as fourth graders. Also, could they really run away? If they go, that's it. There's no coming back.
- [29:12]
E
When you choose to run away, you throw away your whole life.
- [29:18]
D
More importantly, running doesn't just mean leaving their own lives behind. It means abandoning their parents. They think about how hard their parents worked to get here in the first place and how hard they've worked since trying to provide for them while making minimum wage, the Taekwondo lessons, the Boy Scout gear. They think about how much their parents rely on them for help translating mail, navigating doctor's appointments and keeping track of benefits. Ahn shakes his head.
- [29:50]
E
We look at each other like there's no way that we're gonna leave our.
- [30:02]
D
If they're not going to run, they decide they still need some sort of plan.
- [30:06]
E
Knowing that fuck like it's over, but also giving yourself the best chance possible.
- [30:13]
D
Trung means the best chance of avoiding prison. So he makes a list.
- [30:18]
E
First thing we had to do was to get our story straight.
- [30:22]
D
They decide the best course of action with the police is to say nothing if questioned about their role in the fight, say they don't know anything and request a lawyer. And no matter what, don't say anything that might incriminate the other next on Trung's list. Collect any scrap of evidence that connects them to the stabbing. He and Ahn gather their clothes from the party along with Trung's college textbooks, which were in the the backseat of his car and are now covered in blood. Then he and Ahn take everything into the backyard and light up the grill. The clothes ignite quickly, but the textbooks are thick and they are not catching.
- [31:07]
E
It burnt, just the COVID and some pages, but most of it was still intact. And so I panicked.
- [31:16]
D
Trung searches for a spot to hide them books and finally throws them up on the roof, hoping the police won't think to look. They hunker down for the night, playing through different scenarios. Will the police show up at their work at the house? How should they act. And then, when there's nothing left to talk about, they go into their separate rooms. Trung with Monica and An with Carly. For a long time, Trung can't sleep. He hugs Monica as she falls asleep. And then he stares at the ceiling,
- [31:53]
E
thinking about my girlfriend, thinking about my parents.
- [31:58]
D
Trung thinks about his current life, which has its fair share of stress and tumult, but is also one he does not want to lose. He and Ahn have found a home at Monica's. Sure, it's got a patchy front yard nobody has time to care for and a patio scattered with cigarette butts. But out back is this orange tree with fruit so blindingly bright it seems to glow. And within is a congregation of family and friends, significant others constantly passing through. It's a loving if chaotic place, one that Trung cannot imagine leaving. Trung eventually drifts off, and the ranch house, with its orange tree and unkempt yard and gaggle of chosen family, is quiet. Until it isn't. From the moment the twins left the birthday party, the police have been busy assembling their own narrative of the killing, a narrative supplemented by interviews with dozens of eyewitnesses.
- [33:06]
E
So why don't you just go and tell me what you know about what happened on late Saturday night, early Sunday morning. Okay.
- [33:14]
D
Slowly, a picture has begun to emerge of a pretty ordinary house party. A birthday party, A party where the birthday girl's parents were there the whole time. And a party that had unexpectedly exploded into violence.
- [33:29]
E
I just hear someone inside the house yell out, like, someone got stabbed. And I was like, I freaked out.
- [33:35]
D
It's completely dark. Like, I don't remember seeing anything, but
- [33:39]
B
I guess someone stabbed him, but I wasn't looking.
- [33:41]
D
I didn't see who stabbed him.
- [33:42]
E
Well, I didn't see, like, him, like, stabbed, but I saw him swing with the knife.
- [33:48]
D
Detectives are dealing with a group of guests in their teens and early twenties. Most were intoxicated. Nobody had a clear idea about what happened. Still, witnesses do keep referring to two people in particular.
- [34:03]
E
I didn't see who attacked who or anything like that.
- [34:06]
D
It was, yeah, one guy. He seemed like a twin of one of the brothers. Everyone's been saying that they saw the
- [34:14]
E
twins with a knife. I heard people talking about. They mentioned, oh, it's one of the twins. Twins. And I say, some guy named Tron Trong. I believe it's tr. So did anybody say who stabbed him?
- [34:25]
D
No, but everyone's just saying that it's one of the twins because he was the one. One of the Twins?
- [34:30]
E
Yeah, the twins is.
- [34:31]
D
His name's like, on.
- [34:32]
E
We able to tell them apart just by looking at them.
- [34:35]
D
They're identical. They even have the same hair. I hear girls saying, on, get off of him. Detectives emerge from the interviews certain of one thing. One of these brothers was responsible for the stabbing. Now all they have to do is figure out which one. Back at Monica's house, it's just past midnight. Trung is jolted awake.
- [35:11]
E
Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Right after that, I just heard a loud bang.
- [35:18]
D
The family dogs are barking and they're shouting. Trung jumps out of bed, then turns to Monica.
- [35:25]
E
I said they were here, and I just hugged her and kissed her. I opened the door and I turned around, put my hands on the back of my head, and the whole time I just was looking at Monica.
- [35:44]
D
Trung is handcuffed and walked outside as police make their way to Ahn's room.
- [35:49]
E
I just woke up with, like, I don't know, four or five guns pointing at me.
- [35:52]
D
I was like, oh, he's handcuffed, too.
- [35:55]
E
Dragged my ass out to the front door.
- [36:05]
D
The police take the brothers downtown. A detective walks Ahn into a sterile interrogation room, removes his handcuffs, and directs him to sit. The available chair is crammed between the wall and a table that's too big for the space. Ahn is literally trapped.
- [36:21]
E
And then that's where the interrogation started.
- [36:26]
A
Who had the knife out there?
- [36:28]
E
I have no idea at all. This shit, dude. Why would. Why would clothes get burned out at your house? What are you talking about?
- [36:43]
D
Ahn sticks to the plan he made with Trung. Say nothing, but he is starting to spiral.
- [36:49]
E
I'm just, like, sitting there feeling like life is over.
- [36:54]
D
The detectives tell Ahn they know he's lying.
- [36:56]
E
Sometimes the truth hurts.
- [36:58]
D
We understand that.
- [36:58]
E
Okay? You understand what I'm saying? I know you don't want to get
- [37:03]
A
certain people in trouble.
- [37:05]
D
Ahn knows they mean his brother. They're trying to get him to incriminate Trung, but he sticks to the script.
- [37:12]
E
What are you talking about?
- [37:14]
D
The detectives stand up from the table, hand Ahn some water, and tell him they'll get him food. All right?
- [37:20]
E
We'll be back the same time, okay? And we'll be back. What's gonna happen now?
- [37:26]
A
We'll come back and talk to you about it, okay?
- [37:28]
E
Can you just tell me now?
- [37:29]
A
No, I can't tell you right now
- [37:30]
E
because we're not done with anything yet, okay?
- [37:34]
D
They can't tell him because they're questioning Trung in another room down the hall. Trung Gives the minimum where he works and the kind of car he drives. And then they ask about the party.
- [37:48]
E
What'd you do yesterday? I just want to talk to the lawyer. You want to talk to a lawyer?
- [37:58]
D
Yes. Trung definitely wants a lawyer.
- [38:01]
E
Anything I say will be used against me. So you're saying that you don't want to talk to us until you have a lawyer here?
- [38:07]
D
Yeah.
- [38:08]
E
Okay. All right. Okay. So just so you know, what we're going to do right now is we're going to have somebody in there, we're going to take some pictures of you as stuff like that, and then we're gonna go ahead and you're gonna get booked into jail. Is it juvenile?
- [38:22]
D
Is it juvenile? Trung asks.
- [38:24]
E
No. County jail, men's jail.
- [38:28]
D
Everybody knows that county is nothing like juvie. And this answer is Definitely not what 18 year old trung wants to hear. But the detective isn't finished.
- [38:38]
E
Are you curious of what you're gonna get booked for or do you even care? What is it for? Murder.
- [38:51]
D
Okay.
- [38:56]
E
I remember telling myself, like, although you may be feeling a lot of emotions right now, just don't show it to them. When I heard him said, do you even care what you're being charged for? Of course I cared.
- [39:19]
D
A few rooms over an experiences the same series of events. He's also told he's getting booked into county jail on suspicion of murder. Then detectives reunite the brothers in an interrogation room. When they see each other, their relief is palpable, but they also understand what's going on. The detectives are leaving them alone together, hoping they'll incriminate themselves. The video recording of their time together in this room is hard to hear, but their actions are very clear. After detectives shut the door, Ahn doubles over, his head against Trung's leg, his body heaving. Trung squeezes his shoulder.
- [40:22]
E
Let him know, like, I'm gonna be strong here, like, trying to ensure I'm like, things can be okay.
- [40:28]
D
They take turns gasping short bursts of emotion, which they quickly pull back, trying to be stoic like their dad has taught them. Ahn has always been good at suppressing his emotions, but in this moment, he's struggling. He tells Trung he's cold and Trung takes off his long sleeve shirt and gives it to him. Then Trung takes in each of Ahn's hands in his own.
- [40:54]
E
I was trying very hard to be the comforter, trying to be the caretaker. I saw a lot of vulnerability in him and I just wanted all that to be gone.
- [41:06]
D
And then Trung starts crying. Too. His whole body shaking. It's hard to make out. But through his tears, he says something about what's going to happen to their parents.
- [41:19]
E
I don't want mom to look at. You have to grow
- [41:25]
D
through all of this. He doesn't let go of his brother's hands. Their time together doesn't last long. They're cuffed again and taken downstairs to be booked into the county jail, where they'll wait to hear what the police will do next. They change from their T shirts and pajamas into red tunics and pants. Double red, the color given to the most serious offenders. They ask if they can stay together in county jail, ideally in the same cell. But the officers take each of them away, neither knowing when they may see the other again. A couple days later, the brothers attorneys relay their official charges. They've determined that Trung will be charged with murder. Ahn will be charged as an accessory because the police say he helped dispose of evidence after the fact. Ahn is now eligible for Bailey. An officer walks him over to juvenile hall and hands him a juvie uniform. But then something very strange happens. After a couple of nights in juvie, Ahn is shuttled back to the main jail into a holding tank full of Asian guys in red.
- [42:55]
E
I walked up looking like a little kid.
- [42:59]
D
For a moment, Ahn feels both embarrassed and vulnerable. But then he sees Trung is there too. An officer motions for Ahn and hands him the same double red. Uniform detectives are also talking to an eyewitness who claims to have actually seen the stabbing happen. An eyewitness who initially didn't want to talk, but has since changed his mind under pressure from the authorities.
- [43:28]
E
I want you to understand all these instructions. I am going to show you multiple subjects. Individuals may or may not appear exactly as they did. Appearances are subject to change. The person or persons involved in this investigation may or may not be shown.
- [43:42]
D
An officer starts to give instructions to Ahn, Trung and the five other Asian guys in double reds. That's when the realization hits the twins. Oh, shit. We're here for a lineup.
- [43:55]
E
They're coming in one through seven, in that order. One through seven.
- [44:04]
D
The eyewitness sits behind a one way mirror, looking into the room. One at a time, the men walk through the door. And thus begins a kind of audition. An officer guides each inmate in a slow circle, allowing the audience behind the mirror to assess the performer from multiple angles.
- [44:22]
E
Good, Good.
- [44:24]
D
Next one. The witness dismisses number one and number two. In walks number three, Trung. He looks exhausted, his head down. The officer tells him to raise his chin. Just as he turns away from the mirror, the eyewitness speaks up for the first time.
- [44:43]
E
We're done.
- [44:45]
D
We're done, he says. As in, it's him.
- [44:50]
E
Trung, I just need you to look through everyone, okay?
- [44:54]
D
The lineup isn't over. Fast forward through two more auditions.
- [44:59]
E
No, next one.
- [45:01]
D
When he sees an, the eyewitness speaks up immediately.
- [45:06]
E
Wow, that's funny. I picked the wrong one. I did pick the wrong one.
- [45:17]
D
Wow, that's funny. I picked the wrong one. He picked the wrong one. How do I even talk about the insanity of this moment? Or really of this whole situation? To put two identical twins in a lineup? Really, every time I think about this, I just want to shake the detectives or the deputy district attorney or. Or whoever had this bright idea. But so it goes. Now that the eyewitness has seen Ahn, he no longer believes Trung is the guilty brother. When the detectives ask him if he wants to see the lineup again, just to make sure, he agrees.
- [46:00]
E
Which one of those subjects did you recognize in the incident?
- [46:03]
D
For a second time, the eyewitness chooses Ahn, not Trung.
- [46:07]
E
Because I seen his fucking beauty mark.
- [46:10]
D
The little mole above An's mustache.
- [46:12]
E
I was close enough to his face when everything happened. And what was that person's role in the. In the incident? Were you asking me to explain to you what he did? Yes. He stabbed someone.
- [46:23]
A
Okay?
- [46:24]
D
An did it. The witness says he saw it with his own eyes.
- [46:28]
E
Anything further that we need to go through? I think we're all good.
- [46:33]
D
The detectives ask the eyewitness to sign a piece of paper confirming his testimony. Then they turn off the video. The brothers are told nothing. They say goodbye to each other.
- [46:46]
E
Once again, we hug, said my goodbyes, and had me go back to juvie.
- [46:58]
D
Over the next few days, Trung is moved twice. He's first downgraded from maximum security to the general population cells. Then he's taken to a minimum security facility. He is confused. Hasn't he been charged with murder?
- [47:13]
E
And that's when I realized, like, what
- [47:15]
D
the hell is going on back in juvie? Ahn is about to get the answer. A corrections officer leads him into an interrogation room where two detectives are waiting. The same guys who interrogated him a week ago.
- [47:29]
E
Those officers just asked me, like, okay, so now do you have anything to tell us? You know?
- [47:35]
D
Ahn says no. And that's when they confirm they are switching the charges. Trung is getting the accessory, and Ahn is being charged with murder.
- [47:46]
E
When they announced that they're switching charges, and they're charging me with it. They asked, how do you feel? I was like, oh.
- [47:54]
D
Ah an is in shock. He didn't do this.
- [47:58]
E
So I just told him straight up, like, you guys get the wrong person. Get the wrong person.
- [48:03]
D
The detectives ignore this because that's what everyone says. And Ahn doesn't say anymore. He cannot and will not tell them who the right person is because it's his brother.
- [48:17]
E
What could I do?
- [48:20]
D
He doesn't resist as he's cuffed and led out of juvie and back across the law enforcement complex to county jail, where he will wait to be formally indicted for murder, a murder that he did not commit. Trung receives the news that the charges are being reversed.
- [48:43]
E
He going home. I was shocked. I just couldn't believe it.
- [48:49]
D
He moves out of county jail quickly, and his girlfriend takes him home to a strange new reality.
- [48:55]
E
When I came home, I was sitting in a room alone by myself. That song all of Me by John Legend played.
- [49:06]
D
Trung has heard this song before lots of times. But now he starts to really listen to these lyrics about unconditional love, about the unbreakable bond that two people share.
- [49:20]
E
That's when I dropped down to my knees. I was wailing, what the fuck? My brother's still in there. And I'm in here like, how did this happen? I just felt so guilty, and I felt so cowardly as well, because I was very glad to be free, and it was at the cost of my brother's freedom.
- [49:46]
D
I started this episode with Shakespeare. Shakespeare being, in a way, the reason I learned about this story in the first place. And when I think about Truong on the floor of his room, free at his brother's expense, spinning between guilt and relief. I picture Hamlet, Othello, or Macbeth, someone facing a crisis of the soul. A person locked in a battle between desire and loyalty, between selfishness and sacrifice, between free will and fate. That battle, with its Shakespearean proportions, is what first pulled me into this story. How could Trung abandon his brother, his twin, the person he loved so deeply? And why would an just let it happen and take the blame? I've been talking to the twins for five years now, trying to answer these questions. And I've come to understand how the path leading to that fateful party started long before Trung knocked on An's door that evening, even before they arrived in America as little kids. That path is rooted in the very essence of their twinness. Two brothers who shared a womb, who were each other's closest childhood companions, who were raised to dress and act as one, but were constantly pulled between competing forces and who could never escape their twin ness and the egregious mishaps caused by their nearly identical faces. It all leads me to one question that I and the twins are still trying to find the answer to. A question that we all must contend with at some point in our lives. How much of who we are is truly our own? And how much is determined by those closest to us?
- [51:51]
E
He's the only murder client I've had in my career who was an Eagle Scout. He's tired being told that he's scared of fight or scared of react. You know, that definitely builds up. If Trung really cared about you the way you cared about him, he would have stepped up already. I would be lying if I said I wasn't proud of him. If you want to start enjoying the benefits, you gotta put your balls on the line. After that, I was like, no, I'm gonna join the gang. This is not gonna happen anymore. They have been ordered to attack. Oftentimes that means with very severe violence, I could just be executed right there.
- [52:30]
D
That's all coming up this season on Blood Will Tell. Blood Will Tell is a production of Wondery and Campside Media. This series is reported, written and hosted by me, Jen Miller for Campside Media. Our senior producers are Lindsey Kilbride and Ashley Ann Krigbaum. Our producer is Annie Nguyen. Our story editor is Ashley Ann Krigbaum. Sound design and mix by Ewen Lai Trimuin and Mark McAdam. Fact checking by Tracy Lee. Consulting by Thomas Lu. Translation by Tran Vu for Wonjury. Managing producer is Sarah Mathes. Letta Pindia is senior managing producer. Senior development editor is Rachel B. Doyle. Executive producers are Josh Dean, Vanessa Grigoriadis, Adam Hoff and Matt Sher. For Campside Media. Executive producers are n' Jeri Eaton, Julia Lowery, Hendrik Anderson, Marshall Louie and Jen Sargent. For Wondery.