"Wait, I Should NOT Use Social Media For My Brand? Help!"

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Help Wanted

Episode: "Wait, I Should NOT Use Social Media For My Brand? Help!"
Hosts: Jason Feifer (Editor-in-Chief, Entrepreneur Magazine), Nicole Lapin (Money Expert)
Guest/Caller: Rose, Online Nutritionist
Date: November 4, 2025

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Overview

This episode tackles a question familiar to any entrepreneur or freelancer: Is an active social media presence essential for business growth? Rose, an online nutritionist with a niche focus on plant-based nutrition for athletes, calls in to ask how she can attract more clients despite not having a large social media following. Jason and Nicole challenge the premise that social media is the only—or even the best—path to client growth. Instead, they guide Rose through clarifying her positioning, understanding her target market, optimizing her current digital presence, and leveraging the assets she already has.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Challenging the Social Media Myth

• Rose’s Situation: Rose is present on social media but lacks engagement and a large following. She worries this is stalling her business.
  • [03:59] “I am on social media...when I post something, I don’t get a lot of reactions and nobody shares my posts...I feel like I’m kind of invisible.” – Rose
• Host’s Rebuttal: Jason questions whether social media presence is as critical as Rose assumes for her particular business.
  • [07:09] “Do you know why new clients sign up with an online nutritionist?...What finally gets them to say, yes, I will pay for this?” – Jason

2. Understanding Your True Conversion Drivers

• Analogy from Stratus Building Solutions: Jason shares a marketing anecdote to explain how businesses often misdiagnose what attracts new clients.
  • [09:44] “You thought [eco-friendliness] was the thing that was going to matter most. But...the reason people actually make a change is not because people are looking for eco-friendly cleaning products. It’s because the previous cleaner wasn’t trustworthy.” – Jason
• Application to Rose’s Business: The true conversion driver may not be social media but trust, authority, and word of mouth.

3. Defining the Target Market and Message

• Rose’s Audience: Primarily athletes (not elite), interested in plant-based nutrition for performance.
  • [15:49] “I’m an athlete myself, so that is the area I’m focused on...people who are physically active.” – Rose
• Challenge: Does Rose want to educate those unaware of the value of a nutritionist or target those already seeking one?
  • [12:29] “Do you want to target people who need to learn about the value of a nutritionist, or those who already understand it and just haven’t found the right one?” – Jason

4. Optimizing for High-Return Avenues over Social Broadcasting

• What Actually Works: Rose finds most clients through talks, webinars, and podcast guesting, not Instagram.
  • [17:55] “Most of them actually found me through the talks I have given in real life...they come to me [after] I’ve been on quite a few plant-based podcasts.” – Rose
• Hosts’ Advice: Focus bandwidth on these proven sources and make sure every public-facing channel (website, social profiles) clearly articulates who you help and how.
  • [18:21] “You could spend a lot of time and energy and money beefing up your social...But...the percentage chance that one of them is going to convert is going to be so much higher [at a community club] than if you were just broadcasting out into the open air.” – Jason
  • [22:24] “I don’t see that you are the solution specifically, like going very niche and going deep instead of wide into this area. And I don’t see those podcasts or speeches highlighted.” – Nicole

5. Reframing the Role of Social Media: Landing Page, Not Loudspeaker

• Social as Digital Billboard: It’s more important that social media and your website make your services and value proposition instantly clear.
  • [24:31] “You don’t have to use social media as a constant broadcast tool...but you do have to be really mindful that it is possibly the largest digital billboard that you have.” – Jason

6. Clarity is King: The Importance of Asking and Articulating

• Survey and Dialogue: Don’t guess about your customers—ask what brought them to you, and what tipped them into becoming a client.
  • [28:39] “I guess I’m always just guessing what other people are thinking or what my target audience is thinking, but I should just ask them.” – Rose
• Messaging Formula: Jason shares a four-part messaging framework from sales coach Myron Golden: measurable, stateable, understandable, desirable.
  • [30:42] "It must be quantifiable, stateable in a sentence, understandable, and desirable...You need some clarity on the things we’ve described here.” – Jason

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• The Social Media Premise Questioned:

  • [07:09] Jason: “Is there a really important direct tie between social media presence and getting more clients?”

• Clarity Drives Conversion:

  • [18:21] Jason: “Make it incredibly clear who you are for so that people just know immediately you are for these people…and not for those people over there.”

• Quality over Quantity on Social:

  • [26:57] Jason: “You don’t need to be a social media influencer.”

• Optimizing Your Assets:

  • [23:11] Nicole: “You have a lot of quality content and you can optimize for quality over quantity and have it be a true reflection of what you do.”

• Messaging Matters:

  • [30:42] Jason: “People can only decide whether or not they want to do business with you based on the fact that they hear what you say and then think, I need that or I don’t need that…hate me or celebrate me, but whatever you do, don’t just tolerate me because I’m confusing.”

• Spooning Up the Value Proposition:

  • [27:37] Nicole: “If you don’t spoon feed them the vegan nutrition, they’re not gonna…”
  • [33:27] Jason: “…pile it all on a spoon, make sure that it’s plant-based, and spoon feed it to Nicole.”

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Rose describes her business and her struggle with visibility: [02:59–04:45]
• Hosts question social media as the linchpin: [07:09–09:44]
• Stratus Building Solutions story (rethinking what drives conversion): [08:45–12:06]
• Narrowing down the target market (who needs a nutritionist?): [12:29–15:22]
• How and where clients have actually found Rose: [17:40–18:21]
• Why clarity in messaging and niche is crucial: [18:21–21:07]
• How to optimize your assets and social profiles: [22:24–24:31]
• Social media as a landing page, not a megaphone: [24:31–26:53]
• The value of asking current clients what worked: [21:07–22:24]; revisited [28:39–29:42]
• The four-part messaging formula for describing your service: [30:42–33:27]

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Actionable Takeaways and Advice

• Don’t default to social media as your growth engine—analyze what actually works for you.
• Survey your clients to find out exactly what made them convert and focus your messaging there.
• Be specific and explicit—state who you help and how, everywhere you have a public profile.
• Re-use and highlight speeches, podcasts, and articles you’ve already done; consistency in message trumps frequency of posting.
• Your website and social profiles are landing pages—optimize them to immediately communicate your offer and how someone can hire you.
• Don’t just guess what your audience wants—ask them. And don’t be afraid to be niche and specific.

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Closing Thoughts

Rose leaves with a renewed sense of permission to step off the content-creation hamster wheel and, instead, focus on messaging, client experience, and leveraging her actual strengths and assets. Jason and Nicole emphasize clarity, self-awareness, and using real feedback above chasing followers.

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For listeners:
If you feel invisible, don’t assume posting more is the answer. Define exactly who you serve, clarify your value, and make sure every touchpoint (website, social, talks, articles) reflects that with precision. And don’t forget: ask your customers why they chose you.

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Transcript

[Jason Pfeiffer]

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[Nicole Lapin]

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[Nicole Lapin]

And I'm money expert Nicole Lapin. On Tuesdays, Jason and I answer the helpline and help callers solve their work problems.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

And on Thursdays, I give you one way to improve your work and build a career or company you love.

[Nicole Lapin]

And it starts now.

[Rose]

Hi. My question is I work in the healthcare industry, but I have been facing challenges in actually attracting clients because I don't have a large social network. So how can I actually make any progress when I am invisible?

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Well, welcome, Rose. Thank you. Thanks for your question.

[Rose]

Thank you for having me.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

So this is a great one because I think you speak for a lot of people who are struggling to find new business, find new clients, but then also too are struggling with this question of whether or not to have gone all in on social media, which we have been told is critical for basically everything. Right. It's critical for social success, it's critical for business success. So you have made the decision to not do it and now you feel like you're dealing with the reckoning of that before we dig into your problem specifically, why not on social? Where are you on social?

[Rose]

I actually am on social media, if that is the question. But I don't have a huge following. And the problem is that when I post something, I don't get a lot of reactions and nobody shares my posts and I feel like if my posts are not being shared with others, I'm kind of invisible because even if the best product is not going to sell, then people don't know about it.

[Nicole Lapin]

Can you explain a little bit more about your product or your business so we can understand who exactly you're trying to attract?

[Rose]

Sure. I'm an online nutritionist.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

You're an online nutritionist?

[Rose]

Yes. So my target audience is going to be online, so that is why I'm focusing, you know, on my social media presence.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Let me just make sure we understand what an online nutritionist is. So does that mean that you have one on one clients who you are helping understand their health better and then guiding them towards better? Well, you say it better than me. Tell me the relationship.

[Rose]

Yes, that is it exactly. So I provide online consultations and the good thing with that is that actually I can have clients all over the world. So that is one of the advantages. But I am also an educator, so I give talks, for example, I give webinars and I have created courses which I sell.

[Nicole Lapin]

Before you were an online nutritionist, were you an offline nutritionist?

[Rose]

That is an interesting question because I wasn't Always a nutritionist, obviously. I used to be a personal trainer. I was in the fitness industry and that was online and offline. And as a nutritionist I had in person consultations. But then the pandemic happened and even before the pandemic I wanted to move more towards, you know, online. And that is also, again, what I was trying to do when I was in the fitness industry. So being, you know, online, I like the advantages that freelance offers.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Do you feel or do know I am making a distinction between the two? Rose, do you feel or know that you are having trouble reaching new clients because of a lack of presence on social media?

[Rose]

It is interesting because I don't feel that I am absent, let's put it that way. I do feel I'm present on social media and especially because of my background. The last few years during the pandemic, I was on a lot of different podcasts talking about my area. And I should I also say my target area is actually quite niche. I'm vegan, so my target audience is people who want to go vegan.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

So is Nicole.

[Rose]

So yeah, it is actually a niche area, isn't it? And I have been on different podcasts in the plant based scene and I have given talks. So it's not like I'm not really absent. I do have a presence.

[Nicole Lapin]

So I know you want to stay anonymous. Would it be possible for you to send us just privately your social handle so we can take a look at it more educated?

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Although as we're doing that, built into the question that I asked is a skepticism of the premise of Rose's question to begin with, which is whether or not there is a really important direct tie between social media presence and getting more clients. Let me ask you, do you know, from talking to either clients or colleagues, do you know why new clients sign up with a online nutritionist, and particularly a online nutritionist who focuses on veganism? What is the thing that converts them? What is the thing that finally gets them to say, yes, I will pay for this? Do you know the answer to that?

[Rose]

That's a good question. I think when they know that you're an authority and they can trust you, they can trust the information you offer and they feel comfortable with you as a person. They feel like your values or who you are is aligned with who they are.

[Nicole Lapin]

Are you guessing that? I think Jason's trying to stress test your hypothesis that it is social media that is the problem and not potentially another faulty area of the business.

[Rose]

So I guess I would say I'm just guessing. I Haven't really asked. A few months ago I was talking to someone, a doctor in the US and she was actually surprised to hear that I offer consultations. She didn't know that. She knew I was a nutritionist, but she didn't know that I offer consultations. So I realized that I'm doing something wrong if she doesn't know that.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

I want to tell you a story before we continue about a moment in which I had a similar conversation and the thesis of the problem that the person I was talking to was challenged. So I was talking to the chief marketing officer of a company called Stratus Building Solutions. They run like kind of janitorial services for commercial areas and they are very focused on having eco friendly products. And I met him at this CMO mastermind that Entrepreneur magazine had hosted. And so he is sitting down with a whole bunch of other CMOs. And the question that he asked was basically the same question that you have, which is like, how do we get more business? How do we find more clients? And what he came in with was, we need to be much better at advertising our green or eco friendly products. And he wanted advice on how to build a 30 second commercial that would do well in YouTube. And we went around the table and a lot of people asked questions and the most interesting question was this. Why do people leave one cleaning company and go to another? What actually makes your customer make the decision to go with you? And he said, oh, well, the answer to that is clear. It's because their old cleaning company didn't show up and do the job. Because apparently, as it turns out, janitors are unreliable. And so sometimes people just don't show up and do the cleaning and they get upset and then they find another solution. And when he said that, the entire table was like, whoa, wait a second. So in other words, you came in here to talk about how to promote your eco friendly products. You thought that was the thing that was going to matter most. But you're telling us that the reason why people actually make a change, actually become a customer of yours, is not because people are looking for eco friendly cleaning products. It's because the previous cleaner wasn't trustworthy. Which means that you're thinking about this all wrong. You don't need to be talking about eco friendly products, even if that's core to your business. That can be a secondary thing that you talk about. You just need to talk about how trustworthy you are. And I came up with this tagline for them, which is cleaners who clean. You need cleaners. Who clean, not cleaners who don't clean. And they actually used that in their next marketing campaign. So the reason I tell you all this is that if you, rose, do not have a totally firm grasp on what it is that is driving the decisions that of the people that you want to reach, then that is step number one, not trying to figure out how to like reconcile this thing about social media. Because it's possible that social media has literally zero to do with whether or not these people would sign up with you in the first place. Maybe the number one thing that is going to drive conversions is actually word of mouth, which means that you need to just do a better job with whoever you already have built trust with and any clients that you have of trying to get them to just tell their vegan friends about your services, because that's the thing that's gonna matter, not your, like, broadcasting on Instagram. So I just wanted to lay that out as a starting point for how we think about what is actually gonna solve your problem.

[Rose]

I like actually what you're saying. So if I wanted to answer no, I would say the main reason or the main obstacle is for people to actually realize they need a nutritionist. Because we all eat, we all know what to eat or what not to eat. So why should they actually consult a nutritionist? And it doesn't matter if it is me or somebody else to actually get them to realize that they do need a nutritionist.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Right, but now you're talking about two different markets and it's worth thinking about which one you want to target. Do you want to target people who need to learn about the value of a nutritionist, or do you want to target people who already understand the value of a nutritionist and just haven't found the right one? Those are two different markets and they require two different kinds of conversations. And it might be that you need to figure out how to get people from the ground up. I remember, you know, Sabra, the hummus company. Sabra has this problem or had, I don't know, this was years ago. I did this reporting for Fast Company. Sabra had this problem, which is that they own the majority of the market for hummus in America, but most Americans don't know what hummus is. So, like, for them, it doesn't really matter that they dominate the hummus market because most people have no idea what the hell that is. And so they were operating these trucks outside of malls, in suburban areas, in parts of the country where nobody had heard of hummus, and like, literally just introducing the Product to people like this is hummus. You can dip things in it, you can put it on a sandwich. It was hilarious to watch them do this because they needed to do that education because they're a mass market company. You may not need to do that. Rose, what is a full client load for you? How many people?

[Rose]

I think I would need probably about 10.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Okay, that's not so bad.

[Nicole Lapin]

And how many do you have now?

[Rose]

Well, at the moment, because I was actually focusing on creating courses. So I was just having two clients. So I couldn't handle more because, well, I don't know if I couldn't handle more if I wasn't actually advertising that I'm seeing clients because I was just advertising for sales. Going back to what you were saying about the homo. So do I want to actually look for clients or show them the value of seeing why they need a nutrition? I want to attract clients who want to be educated on nutrition who are actually to see the value in learning about the nutrition rather than getting the information from Google.

[Nicole Lapin]

I mean, I might poke a little bit more and say, I don't know if anyone needs a nutritionist. I don't have one. And it would take a lot for me to find the budget to hire a nutritionist. So I think what Jason is getting to is this idea that if somebody already carved out a budget to have a nutritionist and their nutritionist didn't nutrition in the same way as like the cleaners didn't clean, can you scoop those people up who are already socialized, already built the habit to have a nutritionist in their lives? Is that perhaps a better target market for you than just educating people? Like, I don't know who is your target demographic? I am assuming I would be pretty much in your target demographic. But you tell me.

[Rose]

It's interesting because I also thought that, you know, somebody like you would be in my target audience. But I realized no, I actually want to work with people who want to go plant based rather than those who are already plant based. I think I can offer them more, but I just think it's more rewarding for me. So maybe that is the reason.

[Nicole Lapin]

Yes, that's really interesting nuance. I'm more asking about the demographics. Men, women, young, old.

[Rose]

I'm an athlete myself, so that is the area I'm focused on. So people who are physically active, basically.

[Nicole Lapin]

So athletes who.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Vegan athletes?

[Nicole Lapin]

Well, no, not vegan athletes. Carnivorous athletes who want to be vegan athletes?

[Rose]

No, anybody who wants to eat more plant based or boost their performance on a Plant based diet. So it is not just like kind of vegan or non vegan. And going back, I have had both clients, you know, vegans and non vegans. But definitely when it comes to performance, athletic performance, it's more men. But that was in my case, it's more men coming to me, male clients.

[Nicole Lapin]

I'm just curious if we can drill down on where these specific people are because I really like that you have honed in on your exact target. Are these elite athletes though who are training and doing other elite athlete things? Clearly I am not one of them. Spoken like an athlete online a lot. Are they consuming Instagram to the extent that you think they are and so you have to be extra relevant there or is it actually not online? And perhaps I offline at matches or meets or I don't know, like nutritional festivals for athletes? I have no idea. Do you have any evidence or data that shows this perfect client for you? And you don't need many, you only need eight more, it sounds like, to reach your max or to reach your goals. Are they consuming and are they converting more based on online content?

[Rose]

I don't know, to be frank. But I can tell you the clients I have had, firstly, they are not elite athletes. They are kind of, you know, I would label them as amateur athletes and most of them actually fund me through.

[Nicole Lapin]

The talks I have given in real life.

[Rose]

Yes. Well, online for example. I had a client from Canada and when I asked him how he found me, he said, oh, I watched one of your talks online or podcasts. As I said, I have been on quite a few plant based podcasts. Podcast. So people know and usually my topic is sports nutrition. So that's how they know me. So they come to me. And interestingly enough, there are a lot of actually plant based sports nutritionists. So it is a niche area.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

So you mentioned that you do talks and podcasts at the beginning of this and I jotted it down to bring it back to that. And so here we are. Because those to me seemed at the very beginning when you said it and now it's been confirmed to be two of the most promising avenues for you. And you just heard it from your clients. And it makes total sense because as Nicole said, you have a laser focus on a specific niche, which I think is fantastic because it means that you have a real clarity of purpose for who you are for and who you are not for. And rule number one in sales is make it incredibly clear who you are for so that people just know immediately you are for these people. And you're not for those people over there. Great. Makes it easy for everybody, you know, and to me, the question would then be, well, how do you optimize for reaching those people? I mean, look, Rose, you could spend a lot of time and energy and money beefing up your social media platforms. You could do it if you want. You know, you said people don't like and share your content, probably because you have a small following, which is totally fine. But you know what? Even if you had a large following, a very small percentage of that following would be relevant to the business that you're in. So why not start to optimize for the podcasts and for the speaking engagements and then figure out what other very direct or targeted opportunities there are to get in front of the kinds of people that you want to reach? For example, I don't know. I would imagine that there are a lot of health clubs, sports clubs. You know, I'm not talking about, like, the Los Angeles Lakers, you know, I'm talking about community organizations where people come to play sports and they probably have some kind of programming for their community. Even if five or 10 people show up, the percentage chance that one of them is going to convert is going to be so much higher than if you were just broadcasting out into the open air. So if I were, you would really be optimizing for that. And then I would be thinking about, how do you refine your message so that you can open up and start talking to them and immediately be saying the kinds of things that you know are going to resonate with them? Do you know the answer to that? When you've talked to clients about why they've converted, do they ever tell you, and if they haven't, you should ask, oh, it was when you said this thing. Or it's when I realized that you did that or knew about that or when you gave that tip. That's when I said, oh, this is somebody I need to learn more from. Do you know the answer to that stuff?

[Rose]

No, I don't, actually. But that is a very good point. You know, asking people actually what made them come on. Ask me.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Yeah, because I'll give you an example. I just did some surveys of my newsletter followers, and one of the things I ask is, like, what got you to sign up? And the answers are so insightful. They're usually this kind of very specific thing that I wrote. It was like when you wrote this and it got me to think about that, or when you answered this person's question by realizing that the question they were Asking wasn't actually their question. It was actually this other question underneath it. The more that you understand that, the more you can lead with that stuff. Another example is I know that when I talk to potential clients for speaking engagements, that something they really, really love is when I start talking about, number one, how easy I am to work with. You can contact me directly, I'll respond to you at any time. But then, number two, I'll stick around, I'll have lunch, I'll answer questions for you. They love that stuff. And so I now know that. And so I lead with it. It's like one of the first words that pop out of my mouth because I know that that's going to help drive conversions. The more that you know how and why people respond to you, the more you can start to optimize for just building that into the way that you talk to them.

[Nicole Lapin]

I think optimize is a really good word to use here because you told us that people are finding you through podcasts and speeches and that you're geared toward athletes, perhaps casual athletes, non elite athletes. And just taking a quick look at some of what you have online, I don't see that front and center. I don't see that you are the solution specifically, like going very niche and going deep instead of wide into this area. And I don't see those podcasts in those speeches highlighted.

[Rose]

I mean, I haven't done any this year, actually. I didn't do any in 2023.

[Nicole Lapin]

That's okay. I mean, there are so many experts online, author experts who use the Same clip from 10 years ago when they were on CNN. You see it sliced and diced and cut and added music and all sorts of stuff. You really sweat those assets, so to speak.

[Rose]

Oh, that's a good one. Because I have written quite a lot of articles as well on sports nutrition. So I guess I could recycle them. Yes, I could do that and podcast.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

And you know, there's also a different way of thinking about social media. Stick around Help Wanted. We'll be right back. Welcome back to Help Wanted. Let's get to it. And you know, there's also a different way of thinking about social media. And that different way is it doesn't matter what new content you produce. What matters is that it's a landing page. So think about the journey that a potential client would go on. They might hear you on a podcast and then they're going to think, oh, I'd like to learn more about that person. And so then they might Google you and then what's going to happen? Well, good chance they're going to land on one of your social media pages and when they do that, they're going to see whatever it is that you have presented. And if that stuff is directed at their expectations, right? Like if they heard you talk about nutrition and athleticism and veganism and then they go to your social media page and even if what they see is like a bunch of five month old posts, but it's all about that and it's really doubling down on offering value on that, then they might say, oh well, this is very interesting, this is someone who I should. But if they go to your social media page and it's not that and it's other stuff and I'm pulling up your Instagram right now and most of it is not about the work that you do, right. Most of it is political, then that could be the end of the road for that person who's looking to find someone who's going to be talking to them very specifically about nutrition and veganism and athleticism. So you don't have to use social media as a constant broadcast tool. You don't have to always be posting, but you do have to be really mindful that it is possibly the largest digital billboard that you have and people will find it and you have to make sure that the thing that they're going to find is going to be optimized. Again, I keep using that word for converting them, which means that you've got to be speaking to exactly what you know they're looking for. That's going to get them over the hump to say, this is the person I want to work with.

[Rose]

It makes sense. Although I think when people Google me, what they get is probably my articles. I have published quite a few pieces and they would get that. And interestingly enough, that's also not about the sports nutrition. It is about nutrition though. So it's about plant based nutrition. So yes, but then they would probably, after that they are directed to my website and I think my website looks okay. But yes, I get your point. What I'm realizing you said something that I don't need to post every day. And I think, you know, in the fitness industry they used to say that, you know, you should post a lot. And I always thought that what I post today is the reason somebody actually comes and hires me. And what I'm hearing is it's not that, it's rather what the whole page says about what I am offering and also the fact that I can actually recycle a lot of my podcast interviews and speeches and talks and articles that will reflect what I'm offering. So, yes.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Yeah, you don't need to be a social media influencer.

[Rose]

Yeah.

[Nicole Lapin]

But you do have a lot of quality content and you can optimize for quality over quantity and have it be a true reflection of what you do, who you are, what you offer. You know, you said your friend didn't know you had consulting. If I went to your page, I wouldn't know you had consulting either. Whether you know, we just met or I've known you for a long time because you're not putting those things front and center that you want to be so obvious to people. If you don't spoon feed them the vegan nutrition, they're not gonna.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Whatever's on that spoon has to be plant based.

[Rose]

Yeah.

[Nicole Lapin]

If you don't spoon feed it to them, how are they gonna eat it?

[Rose]

Does every post have to have a call to action?

[Jason Pfeiffer]

No, no, definitely not.

[Nicole Lapin]

And I think it would be really helpful for you to dig into the research and the data. You're a doctor, you believe in science, I assume, and numbers. So I think it would be helpful to you, as you continue to grow this business, whether with individual clients or with courses or consulting or other offerings, to know really truly what the answers to some of our original questions were. Where are people finding you? What are they looking for? What are some of their responses? You know, understanding your KPIs inside and out will allow you to not feel as overwhelmed and like you're not doing enough or you're kind of spinning. Because if you don't have basic answers to those questions, it's inevitable that you're going to feel out of control with it.

[Rose]

Yes, it makes sense. I guess I'm always just guessing what other people are thinking or what my target audience is thinking, but I should just ask them.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

It is the simplest thing that you.

[Nicole Lapin]

Can do, but it's not easy.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Not easy. And it's funny because it often comes as a revelation to people. Oh, wait a second. I just go ask people. Yeah, you can. You know what's crazy, Rose? People are happy to tell you because they like to be heard and they like their opinions valued and they like any signal that you're sending that you are interested in what they need. So my advice to you here, after hearing all this, is to figure out what it is that your ideal client is really looking for. And then spend your time figuring out where those people are and how to get in front of them. And don't worry about just shouting into the wind of social media because it just doesn't matter.

[Nicole Lapin]

Yeah. I think this is like phase one of this conversation. We need some more answers before we can really help you get to where you want to be ultimately with the business. If you came to us and said absolutely unequivocally, I know because I've surveyed and I understand my ideal target customer and they are looking to find me on social media and I need it to be shared 50 times before somebody will convert. That's a different conversation. We can help you get there, but I'm not convinced that that's actually the answer of where you should put your time, money and energy.

[Rose]

Yeah, I think you're actually right. I think what I'm lacking is, although I say my target audience is niche, I think it's not clearly defined.

[Nicole Lapin]

Yeah. You're lacking clarity around who your customer is, what they need and where you should be focusing, spending your time and optimizing for that conversion.

[Rose]

Yes.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

So, Rose, let me leave you with this. A couple years ago, I was talking with this guy, Myron Golden. He's a sales coach and he was telling me about the mistake that people make when they are explaining what they do as a signal to people of who they are for. And I'm just going to read this quote. He said, a lot of people will say I'm a doctor or I'm a mechanic. That doesn't mean anything. People can only decide whether or not they want to do business with you based on the fact that they hear what you say. And then they think, I need that or I don't need that. You want to be one of those two reasons. It's like hate me or celebrate me, but whatever you do, don't just tolerate me because I'm confusing. And then Myron came up with this formula for how he thinks everyone should describe themselves. It has four qualities. So think about this for yourself. First, a self description that is measurable. It must contain exact quantifiable information. So, for example, if you're a salesperson, you could say I can help you increase your sales by 50% or something. Something that is quantifiable. Second, it must be stateable, should fit into a sentence, should be spoken in about seven seconds. Third, must be understandable, so really clear basic language. And then fourth, it must be desirable. It must contain something that other people already want. So if you think about how to achieve that, how to understand, how to communicate all that, you need some clarity, Rose, on some of the things that we've described here because, for example, to understand how to be desirable, you need to know the language and the way that your exact target market is thinking. And you want to make it stateable so that you spend some time thinking about how to just, in a simple sentence, get out exactly who you are for something that you could use over and over and over again. When you're on a podcast, you're on a live event or something, and then the measurable thing is hard. I don't want to force you to put numbers to things that are about health, but it's worth thinking about how exactly you are helping people. It's not just nutrition. Nicole expressed some skepticism that she would need a nutritionist. So anticipate that skepticism when you are talking to people and make clear, look, I'm not just a nutritionist. Let me have five minutes of your time to explain what a nutritionist is and why you should need it. Instead, here's what I can do for you as a nutritionist. Here's how your life will be changed because you're working with a nutritionist. The more that you can think about that and how to state that, like, what are those very direct things that you're going to take away? The more that you can pile it all on a spoon, make sure that it's plant based and spoon feed it to Nicole.

[Nicole Lapin]

Hmm.

[Rose]

Yum, yum. Thank you. That's very useful. Thank you.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

You're welcome.

[Nicole Lapin]

Yes. And some of that Jason was talking about. Anticipating the skepticism is really important. Your product and your service is like a nice to have, not a need to have for most people. But if you can explain to me that it's the same amount as going out to dinner or it's less expensive than getting sick, I don't know, whatever. You can sort of explore explained to me very quickly and even have some FAQs that either explain to a new person or show you working with an existing client if they're open to doing some of that. Again, just spoon feed, spoon feed. Like, don't even use a fork. You don't need any other utensils or cutlery, Only the spoon. Yeah, full of coconut sugar.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Is that vegan? Help Wanted is a production of Money News Network. Help Wanted is hosted by me, Jason.

[Nicole Lapin]

Pfeiffer and me, Nicole Lapin. Our executive producer is Morgan Lavoy. Do you want some help? Email our [e-mail] for the chance to have some of your questions answered on the show and follow us on Instagram @moneynews and tick tock@moneynewsnetwork for exclusive content and to stay our beautiful faces. Maybe a little dance?

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Oh, I didn't sign up for that.

[Nicole Lapin]

All right, well, talk to you soon.