Podcast Summary: Help Wanted

Episode: When People Do You Wrong
Date: August 28, 2025
Hosts: Jason Feifer (Entrepreneur Editor-in-Chief) & Nicole Lapin (Money Expert)
Network: Money News Network

Overview – Main Theme

In this episode, Jason Feifer delves into the emotional complexities of being wronged, specifically at work (but also in other life situations). Drawing on a personal story of being scammed, Jason highlights how we often create narratives about those who hurt us, and offers practical, empathetic insights for moving past anger and resentment. The message is clear: When people do you wrong, the story isn’t always as black and white as it appears—and often, their actions stem from their own pain.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Setting the Stage: Getting Cheated and Letting Go

Jason reflects on a travel experience from 20 years ago that left a deep impression:
- [00:28] “Someone wronged you. Maybe they insulted you, hurt you, ripped you off, wounded your pride. Whatever it was, you cannot let it go. You imagine them smug and successful, celebrating your pain, and you seethe. Today, I will help you let go.”
Main Insight: Life is not an emotional zero-sum game. When someone hurts you, it’s not necessarily because they’re better off or benefited from your pain.

2. The Didgeridoo Scam – Personal Anecdote

Full story from 2005: At age 25, Jason was on vacation in Australia and bought a didgeridoo from a shop owner named Richard, who claimed he’d ship it to Jason's home after Jason paid $300 cash (credit card machine "broken").
After returning home, Jason received nothing. The store was gone, the owner vanished, and all efforts to recover the money failed.
- [01:51] “My $300 loss, well, it stung. My missing souvenir made me sad. But mostly I just hated feeling fooled.”
Initial emotional consequences: Jason describes feeling foolish and imagining Richard as a gleeful con artist celebrating his own misfortune.

3. The Unexpected Resolution: 8 Years Later

A new twist: In 2013, eight years after the scam, Australian police reach out—Richard had resurfaced.
- [03:14] “Eight years later... I was now married. I had built a career, and I could afford $300 mistakes. Did I really still want justice for this?”
Jason tries to pursue justice but has no receipts or documentation left. When he asks for closure, he’s surprised with an email from Richard himself.
- [04:04] “I am glad to be able to contact you at long last,” Richard wrote.

4. Understanding the Other Side – The Motive

Richard’s explanation: He had genuinely wanted to run a store, but due to poor financial skills, eviction at home, a bad breakup, and untreated ADHD, everything collapsed. The scam wasn’t premeditated malice, but desperation.
- [04:44] “The answer was simple. Desperation.”
Jason ties this into broader psychological insights:
- Cites Brene Brown: “Hurt people, hurt people.”
- Cites Marshall Rosenberg: “All violence is a tragic expression of unmet needs.”

5. The "Zero-Sum Emotional Fallacy"

Key mindset shift: Jason introduces the idea that not all harm comes from another person’s happiness or success—often, quite the opposite.
- [05:08] “I had been operating under what I think of as a zero sum emotional fallacy, the belief that when someone hurts us, they must be benefiting somehow, that their gain justifies our pain. But life isn’t a zero sum game.”
The real payoff: Richard offered to wire the $300 back, hoping to move on himself.

6. Practical Takeaways for Listeners

Empathy as a tool: Instead of crafting “villain” stories about people who hurt us, pause to ask: What might they be dealing with? Would I want to trade places with them? Often, the answer is no.
- [06:09] “When we can see past our own pain, we can recognize the pain of others. Then we can free ourselves from carrying it.”
Letting go isn’t letting someone off the hook, but it helps reclaim your energy and happiness for more productive, positive things.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On hurt and perspective:
- [01:25] "I just hated feeling fooled. I imagined Richard on the lam, flush with the cash of trusting tourists at a loss for any other action."
On learning the true reason for being hurt:
- [04:44] “The answer was simple. Desperation. This taught me something that psychologist Brene Brown articulates beautifully: Hurt people, hurt people.”
Condensing the core insight:
- [05:08] “I had been operating under what I think of as a zero sum emotional fallacy... But life isn’t a zero sum game.”
Guiding question:
- [06:00] “I always think about the person who wronged me and I ask myself what is motivating them, and would I trade places with them?”
Closing wisdom:
- [06:09] “When we can see past our own pain, we can recognize the pain of others. Then we can free ourselves from carrying it.”

Timestamps for Key Segments

[00:28] – Introduction to the episode’s theme: letting go of being wronged
[01:01] – The didgeridoo scam story begins
[02:25] – The aftermath: unsuccessful recovery efforts and feelings of being cheated
[03:14] – The case reopens eight years later
[04:04] – Jason receives an email from Richard, the scammer
[04:44] – Richard’s explanation and deeper insights on human behavior
[05:08] – The zero sum emotional fallacy explored
[06:00] – Practical lessons and mindset reframes
[06:09] – Closing thought on empathy and letting go

Final Thoughts

Jason Feifer uses a vulnerable story and down-to-earth wisdom to highlight a universal truth: We rarely know the real motivations behind those who hurt us, and their actions usually come from pain, not glee. Instead of clinging to resentment, listeners are encouraged to make space for empathy and understanding—a strategy that frees up emotional energy for more meaningful satisfaction and success at work and in life.

If you want more actionable tips like this, Jason also writes the One Thing Better newsletter, which inspired this episode and is available weekly.

Transcript

A (0:06)

This is Help Wanted, the show that makes your work work for you. I'm Jason Pfeiffer, editor in chief of.

B (0:12)

Entrepreneur magazine, and I'm money expert Nicole Lapin. On Tuesdays, Jason and I answer the helpline and help callers solve their work problems.

A (0:20)

And on Thursdays, I give you one way to improve your work and build a career or company you love.

B (0:25)

And it starts now.

A (0:28)

Hey there, Help Wanted listeners. I just wrapped up a month of summer travel and I was reflecting as my travels ended on one of the strangest travel moments I've ever had, because I realized it had happened exactly 20 years ago. And so it inspired today's episode. Here we go. Someone wronged you. Maybe they insulted you, hurt you, ripped you off, wounded your pride. Whatever it was, you cannot let it go. You imagine them smug and successful, celebrating your pain, and you seethe today. I will help you let go to do it. I'm gonna share a personal story from 20 years ago about a very unexpected scam that I fell for. It taught me something profound about human nature that changed how I think about the worst interactions I have. Because here's what I've learned. Life is not an emotional zero sum game. When people do you wrong, they don't always gain anything. In fact, they might be hurting much more than you are. So here's the story. In 2005, when I was 25, my family went on vacation to Australia. I gave myself a mission. I was going to buy a didgeridoo, one of those long aboriginal instruments near Cairns. That's where the Great Barrier Reef is, or around there. Anyway, near Cairns, I found a shop run by a guy named Richard. He showed me a beautiful four foot long didgeridoo that I just loved. But when I went to pay for it, Richard said that his credit card machine was broken. If I paid in cash, he would give me 15% off. So I ran to an ATM and came back with $300, which was a lot of money to me. Richard said that he would mail the didgeridoo to my home in the States. After all, did I want to lug this thing around for the rest of my trip? I did not. But when I returned home a few weeks later, no package awaited me. I called Richard's store, but there was no answer. I emailed but got no response. I started to panic. I tracked down the store's landlord, who told me that Richard packed up and fled one night owing months of unpaid rent. The landlord hired a private investigator, so I got in touch with that guy too. But the the trail was cold. My $300 loss, well, it stung. My missing souvenir made me sad. But mostly I just hated feeling fooled. I imagined Richard on the lam, flush with the cash of trusting tourists at a loss for any other action. I filed a report with the Cannes police. But I also had to admit I had been defeated. And so I moved on. But here's who didn't move on. It was the Cairns Police Department. Eight years later, in 2013, Richard registered for a driver's license and triggered my dusty old complaint. An officer named Constable Walsh emailed me, and he wrote, I've been tasked with investigating this offense. Do you still wish to proceed with your complaint? I was dumbstruck. Eight years later, I was now married. I had built a career, and I could afford $300 mistakes. The did I really still want justice for this? I thought about it, and I decided, yeah, yeah, still want justice. Constable Walsh asked for paperwork to prove the crime, so I went searching for it. But turns out, I had nothing. The receipts were lost to time. I just didn't have anything anymore. So I emailed him the bad news and begged for a consolation prize. I just said, could you tell me anything about Richard's life now? Before I went to bed, I got an email from Constable Walsh. He said, I'll call him and see what he tells me. I awoke the next morning to find an email from Richard himself. I am glad to be able to contact you at long last, richard wrote, this was the moment I had spent years chasing. It was like facing the evil villain at the end of a movie. Finally hearing how the scheme came to be, I wrote Richard back, quizzing him. Why did he leave? Where did he go? Did he always plan to rip me off? And he replied to say this. He said, my plan was to stay there and operate a successful business. But he lacked financial skills, had gotten evicted at home, was going through a breakup, and had an untreated attention deficit disorder. So everything just fell apart. Eight years later, I finally had an answer. But it wasn't the one that I expected. Why did Richard rip me off? The answer was simple. Desperation. This taught me something that psychologist Brene Brown articulates beautifully. Hurt people, hurt people. But as she also notes, we judge ourselves by our intentions and others by their behaviors. When someone wrongs us, we create elaborate narratives about their motivations. We imagine them as calculating villains who gain pleasure from our pain. But the truth is often much simpler and sadder. They're struggling with something we can't see. Psychologist Marshall Rosenberg spent decades studying human conflict, he found that behind every hurtful action is an unmet need for security, recognition, autonomy, or connection. As he puts it, all violence is a tragic expression of unmet needs. Here's what I realized. I had been operating under what I think of as a zero sum emotional fallacy, the belief that when someone hurts us, they must be benefiting somehow, that their gain justifies our pain. But life isn't a zero sum game. Richard didn't rip me off because he was living his best life. He did it because his life was falling apart. After answering my questions by email, Richard offered to wire me $300. He said that he just wanted to put this behind him. I accepted, wished him well, and then I told Constable Walsh that I would officially drop the case. Great news, the policeman replied. Best of luck in your travels. I have been hurt many times since, but now I always think about the person who wronged me and I ask myself what is motivating them and would I trade places with them? The answer is I don't know and probably not. I'm not telling you something new here, of course you know this, but in those heated moments when a person cuts us off in traffic or a colleague snaps at us, it can be a useful reminder. Is that bad driver rushing home to an emergency? Is that colleague dealing with a family crisis? Nothing justifies bad action, but this thinking can help us feel less bad. And feeling less bad means spending less energy. Spending less energy means preserving that energy so that it can be put toward more productive uses. When we can see past our own pain, we can recognize the pain of others. Then we can free ourselves from carrying it. And that, by the way, comes from my newsletter. It is called One Thing Better each Week. One way to be more Successful and Satisfied and build a career or company that you love. I write it every Tuesday and then I also read it here on the podcast. So you can also just stay tuned to Help Want it and hear it. But if you want it in your inbox as well, I have people who tell me they love it in both forms. Then just go do one form that is a web address. Just plug it into a browser. One thing better email. And as Constable Walsh said, best of luck in your travels. Help Wanted is a production of Money News Network. Help Wanted is hosted by me, Jason.