Why You Should Network Like Goldilocks

Summary

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Help Wanted Podcast Episode Summary

Episode: Why You Should Network Like Goldilocks

Hosts: Jason Feifer & Nicole Lapin
Date: June 2, 2026

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Overview

In this episode, Jason Feifer (Entrepreneur editor in chief) and money expert Nicole Lapin discuss the art of self-promotion and networking. Their central theme: successful networking and self-presentation require a "Goldilocks" approach—neither overselling nor underselling yourself, but finding the balance that's "just right." They explore why exaggerating your accomplishments can backfire and how humility, authenticity, and strategic self-presentation build trust and more productive relationships.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Perils of Overselling Yourself

• Jason shares an over-the-top PR email claiming a client is "the next Elon Musk" and asks Nicole if it’s compelling.

  • Nicole’s take: Overselling is a red flag. True authority or class doesn’t need to be shouted.

    • “Rich people don’t have to say they’re rich. Powerful people don’t have to say they’re powerful...If you need to make this grandiose analogy, then you’re probably not that thing.” — Nicole Lapin [04:03]

  • Overselling tends to be counterproductive—it shrinks people in the eyes of others if they can’t live up to the hype.

• Story Inflation: Jason compares it to setting expectations you can never meet.

  • “If this person actually was the next Elon, then you would have already heard of him.”—Jason Feifer [05:34]

• Analogy: Jason jokes about claiming to be a "giant of a man," but Nicole would be disappointed meeting his real 5'7" self.

  • “If I talked myself up, you would have seen me and said, what a short, small guy. And instead you thought that I was not a short, small guy until I drew attention to it.” — Jason Feifer [07:00]

2. The Pitfalls of Excessive Self-Deprecation

• Self-deprecation can be charming, but only when controlled and from oneself—not others.

  • Nicole warns against negative extremes: don’t undersell to the point where it gets awkward or makes you seem unworthy.

    • “You also don’t want to be like, ‘I’m the shortest man in the history of the world,’...you want to somehow connote your expertise in the Goldilocks way. Not too hot and not too cold.” — Nicole Lapin [08:01]

• Example: Jason recalls a captivating pitch:

  • Subject: “The least successful Forbes 30 under 30 you’ve ever met.”
  • The sender owned her struggles and story, making herself compelling by narrating how she overcame adversity.

  • “If you make a joke or position yourself in a way in which you feel like you’ve earned what’s going to come after...that is compelling.” — Jason Feifer [10:02]

• It’s charming when self-deprecation is owned; mortifying if done by a third party.

  • “If my publicist sent a pitch that said ‘the least successful of my clients,’...I would be mortified.” — Nicole Lapin [11:21]

3. Navigating Self-Presentation at Networking Events

• How much should you reveal about yourself?

  • Nicole prefers downplaying: "I’m figuring it out."
    • Jason pushes back, saying that can make things awkward.

    • “If I met you at a party...and I said, ‘Oh, Nicole, what do you do?’ You would say, ‘I’m figuring it out.’” — Jason Feifer [13:03]

    • “Probably.” — Nicole Lapin [13:13]

  • Nicole dislikes transactional networking—prefers genuine, personal conversation.

• Funny Moment: Nicole recounts a mixer where, asked “Where are you from?,” she replied “Los Angeles,” not realizing they wanted her employer, highlighting her resistance to transactional chit-chat. [14:23]

4. The Power of Authentic Connection vs. Transactional Networking

• Nicole and Jason agree that depth and meaningful connection happen away from rote professional bios.
• Nicole mentions events (like John Levy’s “influencer dinners”) where people are discouraged from talking about work initially. She appreciates the chance to foster real relationships, not transactional ones.

5. Striking the “Goldilocks” Balance in Self-Promotion

• Jason’s Framework for Self-Introduction:

  1. Signal shared interest with a simple statement (e.g., “I work at a business magazine”).
  2. Offer insights and conversation that provide value.
  3. Gradually reveal further credentials as relevant.

     • “I sort of dribble it out...not front load it so that it looks like I’m being flashy but rather try to...signal shared interest, find value through ideas, [and] explain the things that I do to build authority.” — Jason Feifer [19:07]

• The best approach is neither to inflate nor deflate your story—find “just right.”

  • Nicole: “Maybe I err on the deflation part, but I say, like, I write books and I do media stuff. And maybe if somebody wants to know more about that, then I’ll elaborate.” [21:14]

6. Why People Hate Being Sold To

• Jason shares a story of a DJ whose exaggerated self-promotion lost him clients:

  • “He was like, ‘I only do extraordinary weddings. I only play extraordinary music’...I could not get away from that guy faster.” — Jason Feifer [21:57]

• Key insight: People want to discover your value, not be told in pitch-like fashion. Authenticity and modesty build trust.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “It’s better to beat low expectations than to set high expectations and try to beat those.” — Nicole Lapin [05:20]
• “Story inflation...all you do, I think, is look small in comparison to the fake story that you’re telling, instead of what you could have done, which is told the real story of you.” — Jason Feifer [07:34]
• “I want to make a decision that somebody is of value to me...You need to make yourself discoverable, whether that is on the Internet, in an email, or in a conversation.” — Jason Feifer [22:35]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [04:02] — Dangers of overselling (“the next Elon Musk”).
• [06:09] — Story inflation analogy: height expectations.
• [08:01] — The Goldilocks principle for self-promotion.
• [10:02] — Compelling self-deprecation: Lisa’s Forbes 30 under 30 pitch.
• [13:03] — The awkwardness of downplaying accomplishments.
• [14:23] — Funny networking story: "Where are you from?" misunderstanding.
• [16:34] — Value of non-work discussions at networking events.
• [19:07] — Jason’s stepwise approach to introducing himself.
• [21:57] — DJ story: strong aversion to being “sold to.”
• [22:35] — The importance of being discoverable rather than salesy.

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Conclusion: Actionable Advice

• Don’t oversell or undersell—find “just right.”
• Control your narrative—don’t let others define your story.
• Lead with authenticity and let people discover your expertise.
• Focus on connection and value, not simple sales pitches.
• Build trust by being genuine, not flashy or self-effacing to an extreme.

This episode offers a thoughtful, practical take on networking and self-introduction that aligns with the realities of crowded, competitive workplaces—and leaves listeners with memorable, concrete strategies for presenting themselves more effectively.

Transcript

[Narrator/Advertiser]

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[Jason Pfeiffer]

This is Help Wanted, the show that tackles all the big work questions you cannot ask anyone else. I'm Jason Pfeiffer, editor in chief of Entrepreneur magazine.

[Nicole Lapin]

And I'm New York Times bestselling author and money expert Nicole Lapin.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

The helpline is open. Nicole, I'm going to read you an email that I received and I want you to tell me if this person sounds impressive.

[Nicole Lapin]

Okay. I love your emails.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

That's what I got. Okay, so this email arrived in my inbox. It is from a publicist and the subject line is the next Elon. And here is what it says. Hi, Jason. Count on one notion in tech, that innovation and the leaders behind it will never sit still. Case in point is this person. I'm not going to out them. The charismatic CEO and founder of a company. A man who may be the next Elon Musk. He possesses the brilliance to lead a dedicated team developing cutting edge technologies combined with business acumen and a strong risk tolerance to go where others won't. Nicole, are you compelled to learn more about the next Elon Musk?

[Nicole Lapin]

This feels like a game show. Like you went into game show.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

I did go into game show mode. Well, you know, maybe $10,000 is riding on your answer. Are you excited about this person?

[Nicole Lapin]

No.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Why?

[Nicole Lapin]

Because feels like you're not the next Elon. Like if you need to oversell something, it's like the adage, you know, rich people don't have to say they're rich. Powerful people don't have to say they're powerful. I think that goes on to say, like if you're classy, you don't need to say you're classy. If you're a lady, you don't need to say early or something like that. And I think that if you need to make this grandiose analogy, then you're probably not that thing.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Yeah, I agree with that. And let's talk about why we're talking about this. It's because on this episode we're going to talk about building trust by not overselling yourself. It is a thing people instinctively do is that they will try to talk themselves up. They will George Santos their way into embellished resumes. George Santos being that congressman who lied about everything. And I think they do it because they reasonably fear that in a very crowded world it's hard to stand out. And so you need to shout and you need to seem bigger than you are to get attention and then hopefully do something with that. Attention. But I think the argument that we're going to make here with many an example, is that doing that actually has the counterproductive effect of making you seem even smaller.

[Nicole Lapin]

You run the risk of it backfiring. Right. Like, if you can back it up. Okay, right, right, right, right. But the chances are it's. It's better to beat low expectations than to set high expectations and try to beat those.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

That's totally right. So I like to think of this as story inflation, at least when you're telling your story. And the thing with the next Elon is. Yeah, if. If this person actually was the next Elon, then you would have already heard of him. But if you're going to say the next Elon and then send me an email about someone I've never heard of, I am immediately going to think this person is not the next Elon, and therefore they seem smaller and less significant. The way that I like to compare it is, you know, Nicole, if I had told you that I am a giant of a man and you had ever met. I am a. Nicole, I am a giant of a man.

[Nicole Lapin]

And.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

And then we met and I was only 5 7, which is how tall I actually am, you would have thought five seven. I'm five seven. No way is that surprising because it's shorter or taller than you thought I was Shorter because I'm a giant of a man.

[Nicole Lapin]

I thought you were like 5:10, like a Jewish 6ft. I thought. I did not know that. I just thought you were like an average sized man.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Yeah, that sounds like. Now you're setting up and it turns out you're not an average sized man. Turns out you're a tiny man. A tiny man who lives in a little hole under the stairs. And I feed him. I leave little sandwiches for him.

[Nicole Lapin]

But like, five seven, I love you, Jason. Five seven is like. Is what? Is. Is that the average? It's slightly shorter than the average.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

I know. I think I'm. I think I'm shorter than average. I'm. I'm not a tall man.

[Nicole Lapin]

I didn't know.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Well, I feel like this, this is a real validator of the point, which is that I had. I had. I talked myself up, you would have seen me and said, what a short, small guy. And instead you thought that I was not a short, small guy until I drew attention to it. And now you do think I'm a short, small guy. But anyway, the point is that it's all about the expectation you set and then how you live up to that expectation the next Elon guy is not the next Elon and therefore he seems tiny. But had they come to me with something that was realistically sized for this person who has surely accomplished plenty of things. I mean, look, this person has a PhD in nuclear physics. I'm learning from this email, but I got to go a bunch of paragraphs down to learn that instead of nonsense about the next Elon. So when you over inflate your story, all you do, I think is look small in comparison to the fake story that you're telling instead of what you could have done, which is told the real story of you, which would have been perfectly sized.

[Nicole Lapin]

See what you did there?

[Jason Pfeiffer]

I did. I'm pleased.

[Nicole Lapin]

I think there's a balance too, right? The most successful people I know are the most self deprecating people. Now you don't want to be so self deprecating that it's weird, right? There's a sweet spot of self deprecation or self aggrandizing, right? So you also don't want to be like, I'm the shortest man in the history of the world. Like, you're not. And a pitch would also be bad if a publicist was like, pay no attention to this man. Like, he's no one. He's making a bullshit company, right? You want to somehow connote your expertise in the Goldilocks way. Not too hot and not too cold. And that's the trick, right? Is finding what's just right in the self promotional world. And it's different in if you're in this sort of pitching world. I get the impetus behind this publicist's email to stand out amidst so many pitches you're getting. But like I was just thinking about my social media bios, for instance, and my first instinct was to say, well, should I add eminence? Should I add like the handle that we're doing, which is so cool on Instagram that we have at Money News. And then I was like, my instinct was to say like money news intern, right? Like I'm not the intern. I sometimes feel that way. But you know, it's not to be like, you know, I have an aversion to like this sort of founder, CEO, like next Elon thing. And I think sometimes I err on the opposite extreme, which is maybe has served me or maybe it hasn't, I don't know. But I don't think that that's the best alternative to what you're saying.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

You know what you were saying there about, well, you don't want to pitch yourself as like the person you don't want to pay attention to. I once got a pitch by a woman named Lisa. Q, Q, U. I hope I'm pronouncing that correctly. And the subject line, I just pulled it up. The subject line was the least successful Forbes 30 under 30 you've ever met. And I found this to be totally charming because I opened it and it was really a story about this brutal 2020 that she had and how the pandemic had completely rocked her business. And then all the things that she did to think through how to fix it. And I just thought it was wonderful. I remember doing. I can't remember what I did because it was a couple years ago, but I did something with her because of that pitch. But because, you know, I feel like the. The line that you want to walk when you're being self deprecating is you still want to be in control of your story. Right? You don't want to make someone feel uncomfortable or awkward by hearing you put yourself down. But if you make a joke or you position yourself in a way in which you feel like you've earned what's going to come after, you're going to say, this didn't work out, but I am in control of my story and this is what happened next, then that is compelling.

[Nicole Lapin]

Well, the difference there between Lisa's email and the publicist that shall remain nameless is that Lisa was talking about herself and this publicist was talking about somebody else.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Right.

[Nicole Lapin]

And if my publicist sent a pitch that said the least successful of my clients, which I probably am, I would be mortified. And so it's charming when you say it about yourself. It's not charming if somebody else says it about you.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

That's fair.

[Nicole Lapin]

That's where like the EQ comes in. Right?

[Jason Pfeiffer]

That's a great point. Which is all the more reason to make sure that you are taking control of the way in which you present to other people. Don't leave it to other people to tell your story. Stick around. Help Wanted. We'll be right back. Welcome back to Help Wanted. Let's get to it. So this tees up, I think, a very interesting question, which is when you are in a situation where you want to appear impressive or you want to make sure people at least understand that you're not a slouch, how do you describe yourself? How do you explain what you do? Because I have met people who at a party will rattle off their whole resume where they'll tell me a whole lot about themselves. And I find that to be Totally obnoxious. But I understand the impulse. I, you know, when I'm meeting someone for the first time, I just, particularly if it's going to be in a professional context, I want to signal to them in some way that like, I am an accomplished person who maybe you want to know, but I don't want to be like, oh, let me tell you all the things that I've done. So how do you handle that?

[Nicole Lapin]

I tend to just downplay. I tend to say something like, oh, I'm, I'm figuring it out.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

What?

[Nicole Lapin]

Like I was, I make it weird. I, I'm all, I, I don't know, I haven't nailed this.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

If I met you at a party, if we just had mutual friends and we were at a dinner party and I said, oh, Nicole, what do you do? You would say, I'm figuring it out.

[Nicole Lapin]

Probably.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

I gotta tell you, I think that I would feel weird because I'd be like, oh, I don't know what to ask you next.

[Nicole Lapin]

I, I, I have that effect on men. We were at the Zelle thing like a few years ago when we were at this mixer. Did we talk about this?

[Jason Pfeiffer]

I don't think so. But just, just to set it up, we were, you and I had gone to a party hosted by Zelle, the Banking Transfer System.

[Nicole Lapin]

Yeah. We went to a work function where there was a lot of like, financial services people. And you know, it was networky, like you had a name tag and whatever and, and it felt transactional, which I don't love. Like, I just don't think that the best relationships in work come from conversations that feel like, what do you do? And like, list, quick resume and like an elevator pitch. I just, I don't like it. Even if I make other people feel weird, they never see long term relationships that are part of a larger network and not a transactional networking situation. So I remember standing there and you know, in sort of like a little group with everybody holding their drinks and with their name tags, whatever. And somebody said, well, where are you from? And I said, los Angeles.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Oh, yes, I do remember this.

[Nicole Lapin]

And they all laughed, everybody laughed. And I was like, what's so funny? Like, I know we're in New York. And they asked again, where are you from? Meaning, like, what firm are you with? Or like, what do you do? Like, tell me if you're important and whether or not you're worth my time and like, you know, whatever. And so I caught on and they asked me again, where are you from? And I said, los Angeles. Where are you from and which is

[Jason Pfeiffer]

weird to me that you held firm on this, like, now you understood what they were asking and you just weren't going to give it to them.

[Nicole Lapin]

No, I wasn't, because I just, I don't like those exchanges. Why can't you have a conversation that's not about work? Have you been to one of those

[Jason Pfeiffer]

influencer dinners I have with John Levy? Yeah. Where he has all these very impressive people come to his home, and then everyone prepares a meal, and the rule is that you cannot talk about work or reveal what you do prior to the meal. And then everyone sits down and goes around and tries to guess what everybody at the table does.

[Nicole Lapin]

That's my least favorite part of it. I find it that part very offensive. But I do enjoy the, like, making taco night together and not talking about work and talking about other things. Like, I'm from Los Angeles. Let me tell you more about how, where I grew up and how I had an avocado tree growing up. I don't know. And so I find those relationships, and he's like this social scientist and, and has studied this stuff and connection. I find those relationships much more interesting and very quickly jump into a place of depth and longevity than anything that you could be like, I work at whatever firm, and I've been here for whatever. And before that I was here, and then I was an intern, and then I was bored, you know, I don't know, like, going back sort of in your professional history. So I got a bunch of those invitations, and I didn't go because I thought that the title was Cheesy Influencer Dinner. Felt weird to me.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

That's what John calls those dinners that I just described. Yes.

[Nicole Lapin]

And he, if he listens to the show, he should rename it immediately, but yes. So somebody had suggested I go there, and then this idea of, like, actually getting to know somebody minus their bona fides resonated with me.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Okay. But all that is fine. And I, I, I sympathize with people not wanting to frame their identities around work and make superficial work connections. But you are dismissing in that answer the value that sometimes the thing that you need to do is be in a situation, like a networking situation or you're meeting someone who possibly is going to be helpful to you in a professional context and that you do need to tell them the thing that you do.

[Nicole Lapin]

Why don't you do it then? Hey, Jason, introduce yourself to me.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Who are you?

[Nicole Lapin]

Where are you from?

[Jason Pfeiffer]

New York.

[Nicole Lapin]

Oh, hey, O.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

So here's what I do. If I am in a setting in which being editor in chief of Entrepreneur magazine is just a very relevant piece of information to people. Like, you know, I don't know, I'm at an event for media and everyone is media in some way, then it's just sort of expected that I'm just going to say my title something then that's just what I say. But if not, you know, what I tend to do is I tend to either tell people to start, I say, sometimes I say I run, which I know is kind of obnoxious, but I say I work in a business magazine and if that is interesting information to people, then they'll ask for more and if not, then we'll move on to something else. And what I'm trying to do, I want to figure out how to tell people that I could be relevant to them because I think that that is an important thing to be able to do. I mean, that is ultimately the point of that. The next Elon email is that that person is trying to find a way to make their client relevant to me. I remember talking to a sales coach who had said, the thing that you want to do when you introduce yourself is, is make someone decide whether you are for them or not. Which is an interesting way of thinking about it. It's a very utility driven way of introducing yourself. But right, like if the words that came out of your mouth were always, I am a sales coach that helps six figure businesses get to seven and eight figure businesses. Well, like immediately someone's like, oh well that is relevant to me. Or oh well that's not relevant to me. And then you're just filtering the people who you're interacting with for the sole purpose of finding business. Which again, is not what everyone's going to be doing. What I tend to like to do is say something up front that at least signals we have something to talk about. There are things that you could ask me questions about that are going to feel interesting and relevant to both of us. And then to be really alert to the way that somebody thinks or the thing that they're working on or the thing that they're interested in and see if I can find insights from my own experiences that I can share that make them say this is a very smart person. And then throughout the conversation introduce a little bit more of what I do. I sort of dribble it out. Oh, and then I also, I wrote this book or I make this podcast, but like not front load it so that it looks like I'm being flashy but rather try to it's like, number one, signal shared interest. Number two, find value through ideas. Number three, explain the things that I do to build authority that feels like strategic but also useful way to drive a conversation that you hope might lead to some business.

[Nicole Lapin]

Yes. And I actually think that when you say I work at a business magazine, it reminds me of people who went to Harvard and say they went to school in Boston. Like, just say you went to Harvard.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

It's obnoxious. Yeah.

[Nicole Lapin]

But I get how you are thinking about the recipient. And you always come to every conversation from this lens of like, how can I be helpful and how can I be of service and how can I make this easy for you? Which is so cool and I'm so lucky to get to hang with you. I know that was such a nice moment. But yeah, I truly. I think that the people that say stuff like, I'm a coach that makes six figures, or like these people online that are like, I'll help you make six figures in six seconds, in six days, or like, whatever. I don't know. This sort of hyper story inflation sales pitch I have a huge negative aversion to, and it's become really popular and it. It's made me hate it even more. But I do understand what you're saying, that there's this, this sort of sweet spot that you don't want to make it weird or like, put the asker down. So you know where. Between story inflation, deflation. Is that just right area? And yeah, I mean, I would say something like, I write books and I do. I. I really. I probably err on the deflation part, but I say, like, I write books and I do media stuff. And maybe if somebody wants to know more about that, then I'll elaborate. But I recently had a phone call with somebody who was sort of pitching me their service, but came from a close friend of mine. And it felt icky in the way that he described what he does, who he worked with, the names he dropped. It made me at the end of the call not want to work with him.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

That reminds me of. I remember when Jen and I were planning our wedding, we were told, like, you gotta talk to this dj. This guy's the best. And so we get him on the phone and he was like, I only do extraordinary weddings. I only play extraordinary music. And he like, talked like that the whole time. And I could not get away from that guy faster because in that case. And maybe this is something that just layers over everything that we're talking about. I don't want to be sold to. I want to make a decision that somebody is of value to me. And the way that you do that is by presenting me with a connection and with information that makes me trust that connection. But you leave it to me to decide whether or not that's going to be of value to me. That's what I ultimately want. I think that the problem with what you're identifying there with people who are like, I can help you build a business and 32 seconds is that it is a sell. It is only a sell. It is nothing about relationship. It's nothing about trust. It's just sell. And people don't want to be sold to. They want to discover. And so you need to make yourself discoverable, whether that is on the Internet, in an email or in a conversation. Help Wanted is a production of Money News Network. Help Wanted is hosted by me, Jason

[Nicole Lapin]

Pfeiffer and me, Nicole Lapin. Our executive producer is Morgan Lavoy. Do you want some help? Email our [e-mail] for the chance to have some of your questions answered on the show. And follow us on Instagramoney News and TikTokoneyNewsNetwork for exclusive content and to see our beautiful faces. Maybe a little dance?

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Oh, I didn't sign up for that.

[Nicole Lapin]

All right, well, talk to you soon.

[Jason Pfeiffer]

Sa.