Loading summary
Transcript240 lines
- [00:02]
Brian
Hey, listeners. I want to tell you about an event this summer. The Roots Rock Revival Music Masters Collective is inviting you to the beautiful Catskills at Full Moon Resort for a four day, all inclusive music exploratory experience like no other. It's a week full of incredible music, creativity and connection. There will be intensive songwriting and music making with incredible artists like North Mississippi All Stars, brother and sister band, the Nth Power Taz, Steelin Peaches and more. They'll be showcasing intimate performances every night and hands on workshops during the day. There will also be an amazing wellness tent with meditation, yoga and massage as well as a deeply relaxing scene around the brand new pool. Whether you're a seasoned musician just starting out or simply a fan, they've designed this year so there's something here for everyone. And it's more than just an event. It's an opportunity to connect with the music directly, with artists, play with legends and with the amazing community of people who share your passion. Space is extremely limited because this is a truly personal experience. So don't wait. Grab your spot now. Everything's included. Lodging, meals, workshops, performances, and a whole lot of good vibes. This is just the beginning. Artists have started their careers here. Bands have been formed once in a lifetime. Collaborations are witness. You do not want to miss it. Check it out@rootsrockrevival.com helpingfriendly. That's rootsrockrevival.com helping friendly.
- [01:31]
C
Osiris.
- [01:51]
Brian
All right, guys, we are live. We are here to talk about Forest Hills and Spec. We are debating whether that was the best show of all time or the second best show of all time or the third best show of all time. Everyone's gonna be talking about it. Ranked number two of all time on fish.net right now. So we'll see how that changes over time. Although that gamehenge set was number one for a while, isn't it?
- [02:16]
Megan
Yeah, it was. That's why they had to stop rankings, right?
- [02:18]
Brian
Yeah. Yeah. Thank God they're available again. Okay. Megan is joining us remotely. She's traveling. But she's so dedicated to the pod that she's. She's here as always. Brian's here as always. Not traveling as always. Brian's where he is. I'm in my office here. Switched around. I flipped everything. We're all here with like slightly different. We all look slightly different today, which is great.
- [02:45]
C
It's the evening. I don't think we. I don't think we are typically talking in the evening.
- [02:48]
Brian
We don't know now. And I want Everyone to know that once I mute when you guys start talking and I start eating, I'm going to be eating animal crackers today instead of cashews.
- [02:56]
Megan
Animal crackers. Are they like the kind that come in the big bin? Yeah, they're like rounded on the edges. I love those things.
- [03:02]
Brian
Here's one. Here's one for you guys, for you guys, for you guys who are streaming. One thing that we're going to do, I think we might be maybe in the future only streaming to YouTube for these shows, which I think is fine because it seems, I think almost Everybody's watching on YouTube. So that's just like some. A programming note. But we'll keep you guys posted. But it looks like almost everybody.
- [03:25]
C
If you don't stream on YouTube and you would like to continue streaming, speak up in the chat or send us an email and we'll give you instructions on how to catch us.
- [03:34]
Brian
Yes. Thank you, Brian. Okay, so we got a lot to talk about. We have five shows, five really interesting shows. I mean, I don't know what. I don't even really know how to do this because there's just too much. But I do want to say we do have. I'm still saving your voicemails. Keep sending them. We have so much to get through tonight in a short amount of time. So we're gonna, we're gonna keep. We're gonna keep it going here. We're gonna keep it rolling. Give us a review on Apple Podcasts. And also this week, Reprise is playing in Morristown, New Jersey on Wednesday and Asbury park on Thursday. If anyone's going to the Asbury park show, come say hi to. I'll be there with Tom. We have a bunch of new shows and just today, Megan, I don't know if you saw, but we announced that reprise is playing November 7th and 8th at Brooklyn bowl in New York.
- [04:20]
Megan
Oh, that's awesome. I did not see that. I was working all day.
- [04:23]
C
Two night run. Let's go.
- [04:27]
Megan
I'll be there.
- [04:28]
Brian
I know you'll be there. I hope. I hope others will be there. Go to.
- [04:31]
C
Doesn't Reprise, like have to rip up the their set list going forward? And like last night was the Reprise show. They have to kind of like give a hat tip to it already.
- [04:40]
Brian
I know, I know. Ridiculous. Ridiculous. So go to repriseband.com check out all the tour dates. We got a bunch more. Also, they're coming to Philly on September 5th, which I'm excited about, so lots more opportunity to see them. I want to say hi to my Friend Davis. He is the brother of my friend Liz, who came to the man shows and came to Philly to see the shows with us. He listens to and watches and sends Liz texts about what we're talking about. And so just want to say hi to him and thanks, everybody for all the voicemails and all the reviews and for saying nice things to us in person. We got to get to these five shows, and I think we're going to maybe just jump in and talk about, like, overall thoughts that we have or themes or questions for the group. And I have one I wanted to. Maybe I'll start with one. Should I just start. Should I just go straight in?
- [05:30]
C
Yeah, dive in, dude. Please.
- [05:32]
Brian
Okay.
- [05:33]
Megan
Yeah.
- [05:33]
Brian
So I guess the thing that I. That I'm hearing in these five shows differently, starting with the first night of spac, I guess, most. Most prominently is Paige kind of using. Well, using those crazy, like, haunting chanting effects, which are fucking crazy, and showed up throughout those three spec shows. But also, like, it just seemed like he was really, like, entering the jams at different times with, like, Forest Hills, Night two, in the. In the Wave of Hope, he kind of, like, when it starts getting spacey and slow, he's, like, in there with, like, just delivering these, like, textured soundscapes. I guess he's probably been doing that the whole tour, but for some reason, for me, it felt more prominent these last five shows. I don't know if you guys, like, is he just pressing more buttons? Is it. Am I, like, just not hearing it in the other shows? I don't know. Has it been different the past five shows, do you guys think?
- [06:26]
C
I mean, it's been there, but it was not there as much as. I think you're absolutely right. Like, there was a noticeable step up with it, especially with Spock. But I would say even parts of the Forest Hills, especially Night two, there was some weird soundscapes happened that night. I mean, it kind of. We were talking about this a couple weeks ago. I forget. I think we were recapping Charleston and Columbus, and we were talking about how my take was. It felt like there was a bit of transition going on towards these more cleaner, fully realized melodic jams that weren't going as dark or as deep or kind of atmospheric as we had heard in 2024. We're kind of talking about reasons why. And one of the things I thought was, whether intentionally or not, Paige was not going to this space earlier in the tour. And as a result, a lot of the jams seem to fall on. Does Trey have a melody that he wants to play for the next six minutes and can Fishmen up with that pace. And then, you know, what is Mike doing under the surface? But it seemed like a lot of what Mike and Paige were doing was supporting the melodies Trey was putting forward. And it almost seems like, you know, who knows? Are they having conversations about this is just the natural flow of things. But they had gotten to a place by the last week where they were able to kind of connect around a melody that Trey came up with or Mike came up with, or Paige came up with on a dime and build those into really beautiful, sustained peaks. So when they had a little bit of space, they knew they could go to that. So why not explore a new area that they're not exploring as much? And so you heard that in the Disease, you heard that the chalk dust parts of the, I don't know, seventh Tweezer reprise, the long one, you know, you were kind of hearing this, like, scattered way more in the last few shows of the weekend, which I think you're insinuating led to a little bit more depth and a little bit more exploration within these jams than we had heard even through a great tour thus far.
- [08:27]
Megan
Yeah, I really heard that. I think for me, what I was thinking about today was after I left the shows, I saw Forest Hills and then the first two nights of spac. I really felt like they were discovering new sounds. And then when I thought about it more, I actually think that it's new, not necessarily that. I think what it is is that all the jamming, or most of the jamming up until this point in the tour, this last week was really groove based, like you're saying, Brian, really melodic or like building to a tray peak. And I think that led them to a place of really great patience. And I think what it felt like to me at spac, that they were doing so well and a little bit at Forest Hills too, was using this groove based kind of underneath and allowing these dramatic soundscapes to build on top of that. And so it added a lot of layers and more depth and also playing with this patience, in a way, they just haven't on this tour yet. I feel like, especially in the Disease from that, from Spock was absolutely. It was so patient in the room. And that's why that show, to me, just absolutely blew my mind. It was one of my favorite Fish shows I've ever seen because there was such an unhurried feeling to all of the jamming. The improv just felt so open and Patient, which also was balanced with this intense hunger and drive. And I felt like they found, like, a really perfect balance of that that I didn't feel like I heard yet in the tour. Not to say that the jamming hasn't been great, but just really different. Um, and I was super excited to hear that patience lead to some incredible ambient jamming, which is one of my favorite things that Fish does.
- [10:05]
C
And something we hadn't heard as much throughout this tour. Rj, you know, you have famously. World. Famously talked about moments where you thought the band hasn't evolved sonically. They're kind of running through the same numbers. We talked a bit earlier in the summer about areas we considered there being some adjustments, some new sounds. And then we get this at the back end of the tour. What are your thoughts in terms of, like, this approach to improvisation as the tour evolved versus what you've heard over the last couple of years?
- [10:43]
Brian
Yeah, I mean, I think there's, like, so much new happening, especially these last, you know, five shows. I mean, even the. The man, what was that jam? The longest jam I've ever heard.
- [10:56]
C
The Sand. Not the Boat. That was the sand.
- [10:59]
Megan
Yeah.
- [11:00]
Brian
Like, that sand was awesome, but I don't think there was, like, a lot there that was new or different. You know, I think it was just sort of following that format that you were describing, Brian, you know, So I don't know. I feel like in the last five shows, really, after Philly, somehow it just, like, it changed. I mean, I think. And I do think to me, it's like a lot of. To me, it's a lot with Paige. But that. That post, you know, kind of Space jamming and Down With Disease from Night two is pretty cool and, like, very different and. And the kind of. With that, like, segue with the chanting stuff into the intro of Light, I mean, that's just like. I don't know. I feel like when you start messing with, like, the intros to songs, that's when you know that they're doing something different. Because Trey is so, like. He's like.
- [11:48]
C
So.
- [11:49]
Brian
I don't know, whatever it is pedagogical about his. His. His song starts, you know, he doesn't like messing around with them.
- [11:57]
Megan
Think about the light is amazing how they play those dark chords underneath the beginning of Light. It's so sick.
- [12:04]
C
Think about what makes 94, 95 and 97 really kind of standalone in terms of the way we think about this band's history all three of those years. The band messes with the structures of their songs. At various points in time, whether it be 1994, where they play these complete sets where. Where like, song ideas are just like dropped in and then they segue into something else and then another idea is dropped in, usually through mics or tweezer. 95, especially in the fall tour, you start to get like. Well, and even. Even in the summer tour, you get, you know, these deep, extended, you know, bouts of improvisation that change how we think of these songs. There's more segues, like, you think about the way that they utilize stash and break that apart in the fall tour, especially the Orlando show. And then 97, where there's kind of like fun thrown into all these hairy hoods, Run like an Antelope, Yams like these big songs in fish history, get like the funk treatment over and over again over the last five shows. We've heard that throughout a lot of their standard songs and even new songs that are jamming in really profound ways. And I think specifically this transition from disease into light, it gets at like something larger that I've been thinking about over the last 24 hours with regards to the way that they're playing right now, but that they're like, at a point where they're almost like comfortable breaking down structures of the concert experience itself and the songs themselves, which inadvertently gets them to new places where they can start to hear, like, areas in a song that they can spread apart and explore. And you started to hear that throughout the last week or so in a really big way.
- [13:50]
Megan
Well, I had a thought about that too, because these last five shows, the rotation got really tight again, very few bust outs, and they went right back to it. And I felt like that is really their strength right now, in a way, because I think that it's really fun to hear bust outs, but to me, I'd rather hear a really well constructed show that plays with structure and has more extensive jamming. Because they're not trying to reinvent the wheel by throwing in these songs they never play or. Or messing with that. I think one thing that stands out about these shows that we've talked about is that the fourth quarter of all five of these shows, I mean, the fourth quarter of SPAC Night 3/4 don't even exist. That show is just one piece in a way that I think is incredible. But the fourth quarter of both Forest Hills shows and night one and two of SPAC are absolutely perfect. You think about Forest Hills Night one, you have a five song second set. Got a big jam in that fourth quarter in the Carini two Smaller jams, a ballad then celebratory, perfectly played classic. They were leaning on like ending these shows with like hood and fluff head and just songs that they know that they can just like play perfectly well and bring to like a perfect peak. Forest Hills night two, 20 minute Ruby waves. A life beyond the dream totally earned. And then character zero is like your celebration peak. And then spac night one, you've got a five song second set which followed two big jams, an earned ballad, a jammed out piper and an ER that had like a rocking jam which is amazing. And then spac night two, the fourth quarter has that life saving gun which is just absolutely unbelievable. I mean that jam so hard. It's such a great fourth quarter call. You've got another ballad and then a celebratory, perfectly played classic. So I think Trey was really tightening the rotation and making those fourth quarters so strong that just added such a flow to those sets that really stood out.
- [15:42]
Brian
Yeah.
- [15:44]
C
You mentioned like adhering from bust outs or going away from bust outs. SPAC night one had a 12 show average. Gap night two had an eight show average. Gap night three at a seven show average gap. To your point, they really just said like screw with messing with the set list via songs. Let's mess with the set list via the actual plane.
- [16:06]
Megan
Yes, please sign me up.
- [16:08]
Brian
Yeah, yeah. And I think like nobody really care. I mean nobody really cares, right? Like we'll take that, play the same songs every seven shows and do that. It's great. Totally, totally. But Megan, you saw, you saw two versions of probably almost everything. Not almost everything it did, but like a lot.
- [16:27]
Megan
Yeah. In four shows I saw a lot of repeats. Yeah. Like I didn't have time yet to go back and look, but I saw a lot of repeats. But I didn't care because the shows were that good. Yeah, yeah. And you know, bust outs are cool, but I think it's for me it's better in like an encore after you play like an incredibly well like narrative set that just has great flow. And I've been blown away by these shows that I saw. I mean I think four shows in a row that just absolutely every night I left like with my jaw on the floor was pretty incredible. I think starting set two of Forest Hills, it just, they were on like they just couldn't miss.
- [17:09]
Brian
Yeah.
- [17:09]
C
And this is just really quick. Sorry, really? This is a good point from Forbin. They couldn't do what they did over the last five shows over a 23 night tour. And I think that that's that's totally fair. Like, I think. I think part of what. And we'll get into this, but part of what made these five shows so great was the structure of the tour, which had them going to so many different places and kind of starting and stopping and playing markets that they hadn't played in a long time. And then they knew that they were ending this. Or, you know, as they approached it, they were feeling this ending in New York City and then in spac, which is basically their. The closest venue that they can play to their home base in Vermont. Yeah. At this point in time. So, like, they're in a familiar area. They've been playing really well out the gates. Shrink that overall song rotation and just focus on the classics and just make the most of those.
- [18:09]
Brian
Ev. Dude. Just. Just. Just throwing it out here. The reason why fall 97 is the best tour ever is because they did it over 23 shows. So there you go. Back to the page thing. Shermouth says. I think Mike is a big part of it. His sounds are mistaken for Paige, like the sequencers and synth tone. So I don't know if you can go through that. Maybe that. What's that. What's the jam from Night One of Spec?
- [18:32]
C
The chalk dust.
- [18:33]
Brian
The chalk dust. If you can just tell me where those happen, I would love to know, because I didn't webcast, so I don't know, but I just. Some. Some of that stuff just sounds. Well, it does definitely sound synthy, but wondering where that all comes from.
- [18:47]
Megan
Yeah. Playing with the vacuum a lot, too. And, yeah, he's also just. And maybe it's because Trey and Paige are talking to each other so much. I mean, I've never seen Trey. He was turned and facing Paige more than I've ever seen. And that just was really surprising to me. And you can hear them. The interplay between them has been so strong, and you really hear it. These last five shows, they're echoing and mirroring each other so much, and I think that allows Mike and Fishman to just kind of do their own thing in a way that works really well.
- [19:18]
C
If.
- [19:19]
Brian
If someone's listening and they're like, haven't listened to the whole tour because they're normal people, but they want to know what's the best representation? What's the one jam that best represents all, like, the. The most interesting sounds that you guys heard over the past five shows? What's. What. What's the one jam you would point people to?
- [19:36]
Megan
I would say Down With Disease from Spac, just because of the Ambient stuff.
- [19:42]
C
I think I would go chalk dust, but I don't think. I think down one's disease is the right answer as well. I think they. Yeah, they get into the peak, the rock peak, but also the weird soundscapes that the band was toying around with throughout the whole weekend.
- [19:56]
Megan
Yeah, there also is. And I think, Brian, I expected you to say this, but there's such a. These sets are like segments. They just. I mean, that whole spac. Night one, the whole second set is just one piece of perfection.
- [20:12]
C
I mean, the band released two complete second sets on YouTube.
- [20:16]
Megan
Like, yeah, they're like, here you go.
- [20:18]
Brian
Yeah. Yeah.
- [20:20]
C
I like.
- [20:20]
Megan
Yeah.
- [20:20]
C
When the band is like, here you go. Here's 90 minutes of music. Like, I think that they know that we. There was flawless.
- [20:26]
Brian
Yeah.
- [20:27]
Megan
Yeah. Because that set your soul free into chalk dust is absolutely monster stuff.
- [20:33]
Brian
Yeah. I'm just gonna say set your soul free because of the chanting. And if that's because of Mike instead of Paige, then I'll have to correct the record of my jam bass review, because I said it was Paige, but it sounded like Paige to me. Maybe it wasn't. Maybe it's Fishman. Who knows? But whoever was, they were in Fish, and it was awesome.
- [20:50]
C
It's okay. Ryan Storm said that it was humid on night one in New York City for Forest Hills. And everyone who I know who was there, who lived. Lives in the Northeast was like, what is he talking about? So you're. You're okay, Paige. Mike Humid.
- [21:03]
Megan
I actually, when he said that, I was like, what? I will say the weather over these four days was just so. Or these five days was so immaculate. And I was thinking about it because we were talking last week about how are they going to continue to play outside with the weather being so unpredictable. And I just really hope we can do it as long as we can, because it's so. Just. It's such an American tradition to hear, like, jam bands in the summer. It's so romantic. There's something so great about being outside and, like, experiencing that under the stars and watching the sunset in Forest Hills, it was really cool because the sun crept through the stadium and so the shadow just crept across. I think it was really intense for the band because the sun was directly in their eyes the entire first set. And then at Spack, just watching the whole venue, it's light on the sides of the pavilion, and then the sun goes down and it gets totally dark in there, and you're enveloped in that billowy architecture. It was just. Yeah, there's Something about being outside and, and seeing fish shows. So I hope we can keep doing it. And we were really lucky with the weather this week. It was unbelievable.
- [22:04]
Brian
Yeah. Sorry that I. That I freaked everybody out or maybe just you, Megan, that we're gonna have to stop doing outdoor.
- [22:10]
Megan
Just me. Just me. Yeah.
- [22:13]
Brian
Everything'S gonna be great. Okay. Megan, what do you got for us?
- [22:18]
Megan
Well, I just wanted to talk stats for a minute, if we can do that.
- [22:21]
Brian
Yeah, I mean, I would love that. I know.
- [22:25]
C
So bring some stats.
- [22:26]
Megan
Brian has more stats, but I'm just going to get us started and just say that my stats differ a little bit from Scott Marks. I'm just going to say I have so much respect for Scott Marks, but I have 1820 plus minute jams in 22 shows because of. I don't count you. Enjoy myself once when it hits the 20 minute club. That is a lot of over 20 minute jams. 18, that's in 22 shows. That's pretty wild. I mean 14 out of 18 shows had 20. I'm sorry, had 20 over 20 minute jams. Like that's wild. It's just an incredible, incredible amount of big jams.
- [23:08]
C
Deep, deep playing from this band. And a lot of 30 minute jams to the point that like a lot.
- [23:14]
Megan
Right?
- [23:14]
C
Like what is it kind of became ho hum by the end. Like it just like as they were approaching 25 minutes, you're like, oh cool, we're gonna 30 minute jam. Like these are really special things that you, you should not. This is like what it must have been like to be like a Warriors fan in the mid 2010s, like titles in three out of four years. Like, come on. I mean I was, I was a kid doing that as a Bulls fan. Like at a certain point you just like kind of throw your hands up like multiple 40 minute jams. These segment sets. Like it's just crazy.
- [23:46]
Megan
It becomes an embarrassment of riches. It felt like that like almost 30 minute Ruby waves or like a 28 minute Carini. You're like just a great show. Nothing really to write home about, but it's just unbelievable. Brian, I want to hear your stats.
- [24:03]
C
Well, are we ready to get into big picture stuff?
- [24:07]
Megan
Yeah.
- [24:07]
Brian
Yeah. I mean it's, that's, that's our whole thing. Although I will say I got a message from someone on Instagram today. I won't say their name just in case they didn't want me to, but I think it was Instagram, maybe somewhere else that said that they were missing our, our dive into specific shows because they haven't been able. They. They feel less knowledgeable about the shows themselves because we're talking thematically. I think that was a. Obviously an intentional choice by us. But, you know, if you want to get into any specifics as you go through your big picture, Brian, if you want to, you know, if you want to go macro and then micro, I know you have something planned, so I just want to encourage you to do it, do it. All right.
- [24:45]
Megan
We could do highlights too, after.
- [24:47]
C
Yeah, well, why don't I fuse a bit of both? Because I have one thing I was thinking about that I think can get into the big picture aspect of the lead to that conversation, but also give our dear listener out there. We're doing this all for one listener, right? So everyone else, close your ears.
- [25:03]
Megan
That's for you.
- [25:06]
C
So I was thinking, because these five shows, one of the really unique aspects about them is that they have all really fantastic second sets that you want to listen to in full, which is a really rare thing. And so I was thinking about how do you structure a fantastic second set? What do you need? And I wanted to pose some ideas for you guys here. I'll throw in some highlights as evidence of what we did see. And if there's anything I'm missing, please, everyone chime in. So number one, and then we're talking fantastic second sets. We've all seen great second sets, we've all seen good second sets. We've probably all seen some bad second sets. Okay, fantastic. This is like a tier, tier above. We are talking about like you press play. There are no skips type of thing. It's most likely going to need a 20 plus minute jam somewhere in there. And all of these second sets contain at least one of those. It is also going to require flow. What is flow? We've talked about this. This is kind of an amorphous aspect of the band's overall history. Flow can come in very many shapes and sizes and song selections and jamming. But you know it when you hear it. You know, when the band plays a song and there's kind of a. There's a collective embrace rather than scattered groans or scattered applause. You know that like you feel this kind of continu. Continuation of energy. You also know that the band needs to be revisiting the. Well, if they introduce a jamming idea in one song, even if we have two or three songs that don't jam, the next song that jams, it's got to kind of go back to not the specific styles the band was playing with, but Kind of toy around that, like jams upon jams feel. You also need the band to follow up a big song with another big song. That's a huge thing. Carini into Tweezer into what's going through your mind on night one at Forest Hills. Punching the Eye into Ghost into Wave of Hope into what's the Use into Ruby Waves. That whole segment on night two at Forest Hills. Set Yourself Free. Chalk Dust, Sea of Stars. Piper, Everything's Right. What are we doing here? Oblivion.
- [27:32]
Megan
Straight Bangers. Crazy, right?
- [27:34]
C
It's crazy. Oblivion, Disease, Light, Life saving Gun, Waist, Fluff head. I mean, these are just like one big song after another. Two more things here really quickly. You do need a choice ballad. I'm a firm believer that you need in every single second set, one cooldown moment. And that cooldown moment can come in the shape of a poorly timed ballad that's maybe a little bit too early in the set and kind of throws off that overall flow we were talking about. There it is. Or ideally we're talking about a ballad that is thrown in right around the edge of the third and fourth quarter where you get a little bit of a breather and then you get the back half. And then finally, I think this is extremely important and this is probably what sets apart a couple of these shows from others. You do need a bit of a jammy set closer. It does not have to be a 20 minute long jam, but it has to kind of stretch out, remind you that you've been in this like beautiful musical space for all this time, and then end the set in an emphatic manner. And I would say, other than Forest Hills Night two, which I still really enjoyed that second set, every one of these second sets operated in this sort of way where it really closed with kind of a jam filled sort of ending to it. So that is my formula, if you will, for a great second set. Do you guys have any thoughts on that? Any examples that you'd like to share of great moments within the second sets here?
- [29:07]
Megan
I mean, I think I agree too. The only thing I'm interested about the jamming at the end of the set, because I hadn't really thought about that before and I think you're right. But I also think the other way to end it is to play like a classic, really well played that is like celebratory.
- [29:23]
C
Like Dear Fluff Head.
- [29:24]
Megan
Like Hood Fluff Head. Yeah, yeah. You know, those. Those songs that are, you know, like classic fish, just, you know, vintage fish. I think the reason that for me, for sales Night two felt so good, was because it felt like a very classic vintage fish show and it was played at this iconic venue, which was great, but it had just a major old school vibe and I think that that, that worked. And I think ending that set with Number, Line and character Zero. Well, first you have the Ruby Waves, which is a 20 minute jam, and then number line and zero felt it worked for me. It really did.
- [30:02]
Brian
Yeah. I mean, they were all this just. The fourth quarters were awesome. Amazing. I mean, maybe last night and the first night of SPAC were the best of the five for me, but they all work.
- [30:15]
C
Yeah.
- [30:16]
Brian
You know.
- [30:16]
Megan
Yeah. The first night of SPAC was. Yeah.
- [30:19]
Brian
I mean, that was like a pretty.
- [30:20]
Megan
I'm so glad we've been complaining about it.
- [30:22]
Brian
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know what? Compared to the previous, however many shows there were, the percentage is 100% for the last five and like 7% for the ones before that. I mean, it's kind of crazy.
- [30:36]
Megan
We debated that in the last episode, about end of four. Well, I had a few more.
- [30:41]
Brian
You disagreed with me. You gave it like one more than I did. So we weren't that far off maybe.
- [30:47]
Megan
No, we weren't that far off. No. I think that there had been a steep fall off in fourth quarters in many shows on this tour and there was none in these last five shows. And it's just. Yeah. Perfect.
- [30:57]
Brian
I mean, if you look at the. If you look at the second night of the man at this point, I mean, it just looks like a completely different group of people making decisions. Like, it doesn't. One person, you know, just. Yeah. Like the. The first set and the sec. Both sets, just like the songs, the. The way that. The flow, the jamming, like, it just. I don't know, it's just so different. It just feels like a totally different approach to me.
- [31:23]
Megan
Yeah. I mean, everybody has off nights, right? Everybody has off nights.
- [31:28]
Brian
Yeah.
- [31:29]
C
We'll get into this when we look at the whole tour.
- [31:32]
Megan
Yeah.
- [31:32]
C
Next week. But like. Because I definitely saw, like, I. I thought I saw good flowing shows, but also shows that like, once they got their toe a little bit too deep in the water, they like step back and we're like, whoa, whoa. Like, let's. Let's get to the next song. Let's bring the energy back up here. Whereas as the tour evolved, they would just. They'd get to, you know, 20, 22 minutes and then have more to say and then that would reset kind of where the overall set and show was going to.
- [32:04]
Megan
Did you. Did you both hear that hear the kind of. There was such a tightness and like a hunger to the way that they were playing in Spac. It really surprised me and maybe it's because I was there, but there was such a. An energy and a relentlessness to the way that they were playing. I don't know if that stood out to you guys, but it did to me very much.
- [32:26]
C
Yeah, that was. I mean, I did some research today. That was a historically great three night run, which is a very rare thing in the band's history. Yeah, there was a different approach there. I mean, there was a different approach in the two second sets at Forest Hills as we're talking about. But then that band went to Spac and I think that they just feel really good at spac. You know, they played great shows there. It was a really important venue for them to play because of where they're from in the region. I think it means a lot to Trey on an emotional level. He's talked about that his first public performance in 2007 was at SPAC. They've played just some huge shows there in the 3.0 and 4.0. Were these the first shows? Oh, no, they played the flood relief shows in 2023. The first night was great too. That was an awesome second set. The second night had some great Derek TR truck stuff on it. But like they seem to in most cases, you know, step up a level when they play at spac. And last night it felt very much in that sort of vein historically of listening through that venue.
- [33:43]
Megan
Yeah, I've never, you know, I've never been there and I don't. I think it just timing wise, I was always on like a family vacation when they were there or something because I've been in New York for so long. But I've never been to Spac. And there is something so dramatic about going to see shows at that venue. Just walking into a state park, you know, walking over that little creek and you're in those giant trees. And it felt very. It felt super heady. Like everybody there felt so focused. I think the difference between that and Forest Hills, the vibes at Forest Hills were awesome. Everybody was super pumped. But the amount of chompers were out of control. Out of control. I mean, at one point every single group of people around me were talking on night one and in Spac, not a single person was chomping in the pavilion. Like it was so laser focused. And there was such a. I don't know, there just was an incredible vibe. There was a lot of kids There, and there was just a really great. It just felt really old school. And so, I don't know, maybe it was just right time, right place for that. But, yeah, I think you're right. I think that show, the first show especially felt, had a really nice nod to history. I felt like. Rj, you talked about really eloquently about that in your jam bass recap, but it just had a. It had a historical feel. It had a mid-90s feel where you walked out of every show and you were just like, how is that better than last night? I can't even believe it.
- [34:59]
Brian
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, I think, like, I guess I was looking at the. The tour, like, the routing and everything today, and I just think, like, some of this stuff is just about, like, them being, like. It's just hard to travel, you know, like, before Folsom, right, they were in. They were in Austin. Then they go to Colorado. They go to Columbus for a night. I realize there's, like, off days, but still you're. You're driving across the country. You're not sleeping in your own bed. Then you're. You're going from Columbus down to Charleston, then up to Philly, and then back to Chicago, and then you, like, come home to New York, and you have, like, a few nights where I assume, like, most of them have places that they live, you know, and then for the reasons you said about SPAC being important, I just feel like that that's a long tour in a lot of different places, and there's a lot like, you know, they went straight from Pittsburgh, you know, to Austin, and there were a couple days in between. I don't know if they, like, maybe the band members fly or whatever, but it's still, like. It's just a long time to be away from home. And, you know, we're, like, in our 40s. And. Megan, you were saying today, traveling, like, there's a lot of things about traveling.
- [36:04]
C
That are just hard.
- [36:05]
Brian
So I feel like it's like some of those off nights are like. I feel like some of it's just, like, the grind of being on the road, you know? But then they're back there at spec, where I think for all those reasons, like, the history and feeling like it's home. It's also, like, the end of the tour, which I think is probably, like, kind of exciting for them, you know, to be at the end. I mean, I'm sure Trey would say, like, I. We wish we could play 30 more shows, but I think it's something nice about, like, all right, this is. This is the last weekend of the tour. Let's like, let's have fun. You know, I don't blow it out. Yeah, I think, like, that's more of a factor than, like, them coming to some realization about, like, we need to do X, Y or Z with the jamming. You know, I just think they, like, they just, you know, it's just.
- [36:47]
Megan
It's a hard life and they feel good. They feel good. Yeah.
- [36:49]
C
Yeah.
- [36:50]
Megan
I would love to see what this band that just played these five shows would play next week. But I get it. Like, it's over. I'm glad they're coming back in September, but I'm. I'd be very curious to see. Like, I'm dying to know what's going to happen in September. I mean, we'll talk about that next week when we talk about the full tour.
- [37:05]
C
But yeah, yeah, I mean, thankfully we have those shows in September because this does kind of feel the way I felt after summer 2015 and 2012, where you were like, man, the way this band is playing right now, I would love to hear like, six more shows before the New Year's Eve run. And we're going to get eight. Like, you know, we're going to get enough. And I don't think that there's anything out about shows besides these in the fall. So I'm guessing the next time we'll hear from them is MSG and then Mexico. But I think you're right, rj, to an extent. Like, I. I don't. This band put a no analyze rule on themselves 27 years ago. I don't think that they're really breaking that at this point in time. But I also don't think it's as simple as they just walk on stage and whatever they play, they play. Like, I think that these are multimillionaire professional musicians who have clearly, over the last six years, remade their sound in a really phenomenal way, come back from the brink over the last 20 years and accomplish things that they didn't need to accomplish following the closing of the band in 2004. But I think, like, has also written new chapters for them. So, like, they're definitely thinking about this stuff. But I think you're right that, like, a lot of this probably is, like, subconscious, like, up upgrades to, like, the software. And then you mix that with the tour is ending and we don't have dicks this year, you know, so we're. This is it until mid September. Like, this is the end of the tour and we're in a familiar place and they're looking out in the crowd and they're probably seeing people that they recognize and their memories are flooded. Like all these things are kind of mixing together. And they can play this well because how hard they're working communicatively or not at what they're doing right now.
- [39:02]
Brian
Well, I just want to say you mentioned this subconscious software upgrade and I just want to tell you that is part of what that episode of Black Mirror that I keep telling you guys about is.
- [39:11]
Megan
You're so obsessed with this episode.
- [39:13]
Brian
Well, I mean, you just happened to talk about the exact topic of the episode. I had to mention it, I guess. Megan, you're at most of these shows. Like, it seems to me like one other difference between these five shows is that besides maybe the first night of Force tells. You can argue the other four have like a huge tent pole first set jam, which I think is like. Yeah, I just wonder how much that makes them more confident or more something coming into the second set where it's like, you know, pulling off that. That bathtub gin in the first set, like that's kind of like send you into set break as like really ready to like to keep that going, you know, as opposed to the sets where they kind of like try to find something and it, you know, never really. They don't like, they don't find anything new, you know, Whereas these, like, it seemed like they were just. They're constantly hitting on something awesome.
- [40:06]
Megan
Yeah, I feel like that first set of Forest Hills Night two, when they played that Cities and Trey saw the Talking Heads perform that song 43 years ago at Forest Hills and he's playing Cities and they just get into just a really sick 15 minute, really beautiful, beautiful, blissful jam that leads to just the killer peak so early in a show. It just feels good. And I think that whole. That first set is excellent and I think it definitely set the tone. And from that point on I thought all the rest of the shows were just incredible. There were a lot of repeat Free Open for the third time the show this tour, we had a lot of repeat songs in the same place, which I think speaks to what we were saying earlier. But yeah, this Ether Edge too, just huge jam in the first set. Like it was. I went to the bathroom during Timber and came back and they had just started Ether Edge and I was shocked when they were still playing it like 18 minutes later or whatever.
- [41:08]
Brian
Yeah, that was the second. Your second ether edge in a week.
- [41:11]
Megan
It was. Yeah. This one I was much happier about let's just say that. Yeah.
- [41:16]
Brian
Really cool. Yeah, it's cool how they, like, kept, you know, for a lot of these jams. Like, they kept, like, that one they kept. It's like sort of like an easy. Feels like, almost like a laid back kind of vibe, you know, that then like, kind of morphs into. Morphs into something dark and then back up to the peak. I mean, it just. It all seems so easy.
- [41:36]
Megan
That was super groove based. That was the only song in that set that debuted after 1999, which is pretty crazy.
- [41:43]
Brian
Wow.
- [41:45]
C
Wow.
- [41:46]
Brian
Well, we got. Someone pointed out that I say wow a lot. Megan hasn't talked about Night for Mondegreen yet, but it might still be coming. But we'll get a few more of your bingo. Your bingo.
- [41:57]
C
Do you think we've. We've retired the night for Mondegreen after. After what Meg saw this summer?
- [42:03]
Megan
Yeah, exactly. I feel like.
- [42:04]
C
I know I still talk about Alpine dicks 20, 20, 22. So I get it. We all have our.
- [42:12]
Megan
Exactly. I do feel like after Man Night two, my first summer tour show, I was like, am I. Am I just, like, getting. Am I a little cursed right now? And I was a little worried about it. But after Forest, the first set of Forest Hills, I'm not gonna lie, was a little bit nervous, too. I was like, okay. There was, like, chompers everywhere, and I felt like Fish just couldn't get into, like, a flow of that set. And then. And they had kind of aborted that Sigma jam that I thought was cool. And then set two locked in, and then. I have zero complaints about the rest of the shows. Zero. No complaints. I'm not even going to complain about missing SPAC Night 3. I'm not. I'm not.
- [42:51]
Brian
That's pretty. That's pretty.
- [42:52]
Megan
Yeah. Yeah.
- [42:53]
Brian
No. No complaints, Meg.
- [42:54]
C
It's big of you.
- [42:56]
Megan
Thanks, guys.
- [42:57]
Brian
It is big of you. Brian, I'm going to throw it to you to. To. To either give us the next thing or ask the next question.
- [43:04]
C
Perfect. We will miss you. We're about to take things into heavy contact zone. I Hope you score 10 buckets.
- [43:13]
Brian
Thank you.
- [43:14]
C
One of them is a turnaround a la Dirk. I feel like you could shoot like Dirk, you know that? Yeah.
- [43:19]
Brian
I feel like once in a while, you know, once in a while.
- [43:22]
Megan
Give me the top tonight.
- [43:25]
Brian
Thank you. Megan.
- [43:26]
C
Play like Fish Playing a fourth quarter at spec.
- [43:30]
Brian
Okay. Thank you.
- [43:33]
C
We'll see you, bud. All right. So, Mad Brian, I took a. I'm trying to figure out exactly how to, like, communicate this. So last Night's show was really good. And as the show was going on, the text thread airwaves were just lighting up. I think I kicked it off with like 6 different. My God. Text to 6 different threads just to be like, okay, guys, we have a Tweezer reprise that is now jamming two songs into the show. And then it kept going. And it wasn't just like, sometimes they do these, like, very cute openings. Kind of blows the mind. And then Trey is like, all right, now is a great time to play Devotion to a Dream. And then the whole show goes into a different direction. And last night was not one of those nights. And the run itself was not. And this is no shade at Devotion to a Dream. I actually happen to like that song, but I think you know what I mean. Just a very standard first set song. And then everything kind of goes in that direction. And I see you would work here as well. But it did not go in that direction. It kept building. And it started to get to a point, I would say around the time of the Roses Are Free, into Tweezer Prize, into 46 days, that we started to get into that dreaded best of territory and this notion of, you know, where. Where does this show fit and where does this. This larger run fit? And so I obviously jumped on probably my favorite website on the Internet these days for Forever, which is Fishnet, and I started going through. Right. It's just. It's such a great resource.
- [45:29]
Megan
What would we do without it? I don't know.
- [45:32]
C
I couldn't do this job I don't get paid to do. I would. I'd be incapable of it. It is. I live and die in that website. Thank you to everyone who runs it. So I started going back through.
- [45:47]
D
This is Lawrence Lanahan, journalist, musician, and host of Rearranged, an Osiris Media podcast about music arranging. Once a song is written, arrangers make musical decisions that shape how we end up hearing the song. And we're not just talking about adding orchestral accompaniment like horns and strings, or doing a cover version of a song. Arrangement can be putting happy music over dark lyrics, using samples, recording all acoustic, even tiny decisions like putting an electronic loop into an acoustic song to draw your attention to an important turn of phrase. It's all arranging. Rearranged Episodes are documentary essays where I use arrangements to answer some big questions like what is a song and what can a song become? And how can the sound of a song change the meaning you take from it? Listening this way has changed my relationship with music. Tune in to Rearranged and maybe it'll happen for you too. To learn more@rerangedpodcast.com.
- [46:59]
C
You tell me which direction we want to go in here because I have a list of what I think are the best shows of 4.0, of which I think that this show is on that list, if not the best of all of them at this point in time. But then I also have a list of what I would consider the top five three night runs of which this may be on there. We'll talk about that. Where do you want to go with this? Where. Where do you want. How do you want to focus?
- [47:29]
Megan
I want to just start. Before we go into your list, can we talk a little bit about why this show as a, like a fest, a Tweezer Tweezer Reprise fest works better than other Tweezer fests, do you? Or any sort of song. Like, sometimes I feel like they can be. These can be kind of gimmicky when it's just like going back into the same song again to get the, like, cheer and everybody's like, fine.
- [47:53]
C
Yeah, I was. I was at Forum 2021. I know what you mean.
- [47:57]
Megan
Yeah. Like, I think. Yeah, exactly. I think there's like a. There can be kind of. It can feel like a crutch or just something that's not exploratory and thrilling, I think. And this, I think, is really thrilling to listen to. And so I want to hear why you think that is.
- [48:15]
C
Well, I think that this show last night, Night three of Spack, does something that a Rare Breed of Fish shows do, which is you kind of get that structure of a fantastic second set that I talked about. You get that expanded over the entire show. So in a sense, they are almost reinventing how the show is structured and feels on the Fly Like a Fish show. I think the bass level are all different songs from the night before. Set one is going to be a little bit less jammy and a little bit less flowy and a little bit more song based. Set 2 will be a little bit darker, a little bit Jamier. And then you get the encore, which can kind of go a lot of different directions. And that structure is pretty repeated over and over again. Like a lot of this tour was that structure with a few exceptions here and there. But you didn't really feel like the band was screwing around with the structure. And last night you really got that. And part of that also is you kind of get this injection of whenever Tweezer Reprise is played in a different place than the closing of the set or the encore, it feels like the band is up to their kind of prankster Dom. Like they're smiling at you knowing that this is not where this song belongs. And that's what makes it that much better because it just raises intensity in a really crazy way that is unexpected and you feel it throughout the entire. Throughout the entire crowd. And that also, like, adds to kind of the zany pranksterness of them coming out of college. So you get a little bit of humor injected. But also, Tweezer Reprise is played in a different key from Tweezer. Tweezer is in A minor, I believe Tweezer Reprise is in D 99%. Sure. Some musicologists correct me if I'm wrong, but that's a little bit of a brighter key leads to a little bit of different type of jamming where we've heard a lot of like these deep A minor type groove funk jams that emerge from Tweezer that every time we go in and out of songs and then back into Tweezer, it tends to feel like we're back in the home space, regardless what the era is. It could be 1994, it could be the late 90s, it could be 4.0. So injecting tweezer Reprise into this gives people this very unexpected sensation. Like I said, it's a little menacing and, you know, it's mischievous in a way that like, Fish is really good at being. There's kind of a joke being played on you. Plus, musically it opens the door to a totally different area for the band to be playing. So that's my take. What are your thoughts?
- [50:57]
Megan
Yeah, I think the two things that I think make this one work so well are this. When you play a really good kind of fast show, the segues are what's really important to me. And these segues are incredible and they never feel forced. Thinking about the one out of Reba is just like, oh my God, it's so incredible. The one out of the big Tweezer Reprise jam that then goes back into Tweezer Reprise at the end before boogie on. These segues are absolutely incredible. And the other thing that I think about is there's really inspired jamming within this show as well. It's not just the Tweezer Fest and the jam on that. We get into some really great jams as well. And here the roses are free. You've got the really great the Tweezer Reprise jam that's long. I mean, there's a bunch of really great jams in the show. And I think that's kind of what elevates it for me as well.
- [51:54]
C
Shermouth has a really good point here and it's in line with what you're saying. That part of it is that Tweezer Fest go to the Tweezer Rift. So every single jam that we're in kind of resolves in the boom bada ba da ba da ba da ba da. And this one goes rather than into the speedy version of that riff, this goes into an ascending riff that I think you. They can find a little bit easier and it allows them to build intensity while you're realizing what they're going into. So there's like two things happening at once. Like they're figuring out a new peak that you weren't expecting to happen, but then you recognize. Oh my God, that's Tweezer Reprise. We're back in. Is interesting. Just kind of thinking about this tour at large that we started the tour with. Sunday night in Manchester, a really amazing Tweezer Fest. I thought that was one of the most inventive and really just like complete musical versions of the Tweezer Fest that we've ever heard. And really felt like a 4.0 version of it where you really only get three tweezers in a 5, 6 song. And everything jams. Just a very spectacular kind of modern approach to that structure and that idea.
- [53:07]
Megan
Building on to your jams upon jams, feeling those tweezers each built upon in an incredible way.
- [53:12]
C
Yeah. By the end of it, like you're jamming on these deconstructed ideas based on what was happening in the more funky groove based version two, three songs earlier.
- [53:26]
Megan
Yeah, sorry I interrupted you though. You were saying, though. And then the tour ends with the Tweezer Reprise.
- [53:33]
C
Well, then the tour ends with a Tweezer Reprise Fest. Like it's just. It's a cool mirror of where the band is at, where they're kind of messing around with structures in a big way. I don't know. I. Yeah, I thought. I think to. To your question, you're just accomplishing a lot by throwing Tweezer Reprise in there versus Tweezer. Because it's a familiar feeling, but it's a completely new one as well.
- [53:57]
Megan
Yeah. And a little bit speaks to. We had a mailbag episode recently and you were saying that you would love to see a show in reverse and it's kind of what they did a little bit by playing the Tweezer Reprise first.
- [54:09]
C
Yeah, you got that.
- [54:11]
Megan
I mean, Buried Alive and. Yeah, yeah.
- [54:14]
C
But like, no, that, like, I think we talked about that in the mailbag. That, like, anything to shake up the structure of a show. And this. Well, this gets into kind of the big picture stuff I've been thinking about with regards to the show and this run overall is a show like this. Like, I know people don't love the sports metaphors with music, and I understand it to a certain degree, but I also. Because they don't. Because I love the idea that fish is like watching baseball. I will watch baseball and watch my favorite team regardless if they lose 100 games or not in a season. I just love the structure of a baseball game. I love the feeling of that, the, you know, the matchups. I love all the oddities that can happen. I love the nostalgia, all that sort of stuff. And that's the same with the fish show. Like, I love just the structure of a fish show and the stats and.
- [55:19]
Megan
The history and the context and the stats and history. Yeah, yeah.
- [55:23]
C
And sometimes you go to fish shows and they're solid rock shows, and sometimes you go to fish shows and nothing really connects. And sometimes you go to fish shows and something really connects, but the rest of it doesn't. Like it's it. There's a lot happening that's in the moment. And a show like last night at is as close as, like, you can get to the comparison between your favorite baseball team winning the World Series, which is not something that anyone should expect season after season after season. Yeah, that is an extremely rare thing to get and is the type of thing that, like, you can ask for but like, you should never really expect to have happen.
- [56:03]
Megan
Yeah, I think that's what felt so crazy about spac is that each night, like after spac night one, it kind of felt like we were playing with house money. I thought that show was so excellent that when we went into night two, the first set was so great. And then the second set, I literally was just standing there like, I can't believe this is happening. When I was listening to that down with disease. And then to come for the third night and have it be trumped again is just. It's rare. And I want to hear this list of the best three show runs ever.
- [56:34]
C
Well, so. Yes. So this is kind of where my head's at, because I figured and I was texting with a few friends Saturday morning and we were like, well, tonight's probably gonna be the Saturday night special. Yeah, we're definitely getting like a 2001 that's a little ill placed and is only like six minutes long and then goes into Possum, you know, whatever. Like that, like, fourth quarter that we've come to expect. And you know, we were talking, we were like, after last night's second set, I could care less what they play for the remainder of the weekend.
- [57:02]
Megan
Totally.
- [57:02]
C
And that feeling, like when they come out and play a show like they play on Friday, I think your expectation, rightly so, is like, well, that's the best show we're going to see this weekend. You're still gonna have fun at the other ones. I don't need to qualify this, but like, you're still gonna fun, but like, you're. You don't think that they're gonna reach those highs again. And it's very rare that you. And sometimes they do. And when they do. Holy. And so I went back and I looked at all of the three night runs that they've played since winter 1993, and I kind of took a loose structure of like, okay, what are the runs where the first night kind of exceeds all expectations and then the second night is a step up from that and then the third night is, if not a complete step up, at least playing on the same level in many cases as those first two nights. And it's a really, really, really rare thing to have happen. As I counted, this has only happened one time. There have been a lot of three night runs where two of the shows have been very solid, but they've had either one show to open or one show in the middle that wasn't great, or one should end that wasn't that great. There have been a lot of three night runs where you have one really awesome show and two fairly solid shows. And obviously this is all subjective, so feel free. If, if you are hearing me say stuff and I don't say your run, make the case for it in the, in the chat, please. But I think that when it happens, you just undeniably know that you walked out with the band playing an absolutely stellar three nights of music that you more than likely won't see again. And so these are the five. And part of this is weighted towards the latter stage of their career because they didn't really play a lot of three night run. Yeah, 1993, there's one. 1994, there's one, maybe two. 1995, there's only one. Like it wasn't really until the three point. Like they didn't play three nights at Deer Creek until 2000, they didn't like it's really the 3.0 era that they've settled into. Three night runs are Kind of a regular thing for them. But so with that caveat number, this is just going in chronological order. This is not top five ranked one through five, but these are my. These are the five I would pick. Fox 95. Absolutely. Every single one of those shows is complete fire. They open the run with Tweezer Prize into Divided Sky. There's an amazing bathtub gin in that first show. The second show I believe has. I think it's great Bowie in that show, but I hold the show flows really nicely. The third night you've got like, you've got a yem and a crossroads mixed in here somewhere. You've got a great mike's groove. Like you just have huge songs and huge moments stretched out. And all three of those shows are completely listenable. I've heard that there are audio issues with the recordings that the band has, which is why we've never had it released officially on Soundboard. But that is one of my long begged for three night run box sets. Jumping ahead, we got a question about this from one of our dedicated listeners and he is correct. MSG 971229 97.
- [60:35]
Megan
Hell yeah.
- [60:36]
C
You've got sick sick jamming in theme from the bottom and run like an antelope up front. Really wild kind of stretched out. Fluff head Set two, you've got a huge tube, you've got a huge disease, you've got a great yam. I mean there's just awesome, awesome stuff in there. And then the last three are in 3.0, 4.0 Dick's 2012 fuck your face shows. Night one, Dick's Lights, night two, Sand Ghost Piper is night three, Magna Ball. That first show is pretty close to perfection for a two set welcome show to a festival. Day two is personally speaking the best fish day I've ever had. It started at 3 o' clock in the afternoon, ended at like 1 o', clock, 2 o' clock in the morning with the drive in jam, Tweezer Caspian, awesome deep jamming in the third set and then night three. Well, I don't think it reached the heights of those first two shows. Is very old school, really cool flowing second set plus an awesome Yem encore. And then SPAC 25 where we've got the first show. You have a four song, five song complete second set that you just have to hear to believe. The second night goes back to the well. Big songs, huge song choices, no real let up. The only ballad is one of kind of everyone's favorite songs. The first acoustic guitar song. Every dude who likes fish Learns how to play. And then the third night is just an all time classic with Tweezer Reprise everywhere, jamming everywhere. The first Tweezer Encore, Harry Hood to close out the overall tour. Just very special stuff. So those are my list of five. It's Fox 95, MSG 97, Dix 12, Magna Ball and SPAC 25. Your thoughts on that?
- [62:35]
Megan
That's just an incredible list and I feel lucky that I've that I saw almost two of them. I guess I. Two of the three of SPAC. But yeah, and I was at 97 that. It's just incredible, I think, to think about how hard it is to do three nights at this level. Like this is Elite Fish top tier, as you would say, Brian. And I think it is really hard to maintain creativity and inspiration over three nights like that. And that's pretty incredible. It's also cool that it's kind of spread out throughout their career too.
- [63:09]
C
Yeah, yeah. I mean that's. I think that that's part of it is like as we've gone through.
- [63:19]
Brian
The.
- [63:20]
C
Last 15 plus years since they got back together, I think one thing that really defined them when they got back together in 09 was this desire to really tap into what worked in their past and what made them really special as a band and really want to push and pull at the boundaries that they were kind of in music. Obviously things kind of got out of control for a bit and then they reined it in. And I think what we're hearing now, I mean I just saw this in the. In the chat and I can't believe I didn't really think about this, even though it's right in front of me. The show ended with you. Enjoy Myself, Tweezer and Harry Hood consecutively. This is a band that is taking a deep look at their past.
- [64:10]
Megan
Yeah, obviously.
- [64:11]
C
Or not. But like they are, you know, and. And trying to reinterpret what those songs can mean 40 years later.
- [64:18]
Megan
Absolutely. I think that the one thing that really defined these five shows is really classic Fish. So many classic Fish songs. Like, you know, I think and using their new songs to jam basically as jam vehicles, I think that really stands out. And if you think about when those three night runs were it 95, 97, 1215 and 25, like so pretty top moments in Fish history, I think. I mean, I think 2025 is shaping up. I mean, I think, you know, we had a lot of questions and we'll talk about this next week when we talk about the tour. But the end of this tour really Elevated it massively.
- [64:58]
C
Yeah, I don't really have questions like I did three or four weeks ago.
- [65:01]
Megan
Yeah.
- [65:06]
C
Like I think that we've watched and I think we'll talk about this next week, but we've watched the band not like completely reinvent themselves, but I think find a new gear of creativity faster than we've really ever found them doing that in the past. You know, we Talked about fall 96 on our Top 25 Tours Series and that was a tour that really showcased the next step of where the band was taking their sound and it really paved the way for the late 90s. But you go through show by show, there's a lot of shows in there without like highlights that people are talking about almost 30 years later. There are a lot of shows that are like very by the book fish structured shows with little improvisation, kind of pretty similar songs. They were pushing an album at the time as well. You think about like 2014, 2016, like full years where it felt like they were kind of working through new ideas and it wasn't fully translate to the stage it seemed to us and to what we taught. What we were thinking about early on in this tour was that the band had kind of hit the end of a road of sorts, of a style of jamming that they'd been pushing for four or five years. It made sense for them to try to figure out what was new. And you know, there were a couple shows on this tour where the kind of up and down nature of trying to figure out the next approach and the new sounds definitely impacted things. But I mean, yeah, by the end of this tour there they sound like a band that is completely on fire again and playing new ideas and new sounds like I was, I just went back and I've been going through so many 2025 jams over the last couple of weeks and there's, there's an excitement to these past five shows and the jamming. I mean it really reminds me of the end of the summer 23, 2003 tour where they played Burgund's Town, Two Nights of Camden and it. And you really heard a band that had been back together for about 10 months, about a year at that point in time they had, they hadn't. They'd been playing for seven months, but they recorded Round Room, they played promotional shows, you know, they'd been back together for about a year. And by that five night run to close out summer 2003, you heard them taking risks and with confidence and pushing themselves and incorporating new sounds and new ideas within Songs and coming up with full segments like the Rock and Roll seven Below sense and subtle sounds. Exploring the space within a song like Waste. Stretching a song like 46 Days out as far as it would go. Reinventing what the Ghost Jam vehicle could sound like. Twist being this, like, minimalistic groove machine at Camden. Like so many different moments in those five shows where it really felt like the band was taking a step forward. And obviously we know that they didn't play together for another four months and things kind of spiraled quickly and we lost the band within a year at that point in time. So for this to happen now when they're so healthy and we have shows six weeks from now, like, ah, it's just it. You feel really lucky having this band here right now.
- [68:28]
Megan
Yeah, me too. I hope that they listen to some of these jams before they set out in September. Again. I know that's not really their thing, but it'd be sick if they did because I'd love to see this going on. One thing I wanted to say was that, and this, I want to get to your list about 4.0 shows is I walked out of Spac Night to thinking that was one of the best shows of the year, and I stand by that still. And then after last night thinking that this was potentially one of the best shows of 4.0, which is just crazy. So I want to hear this list that you have.
- [69:03]
C
So, I mean, I. Because I was texting with a couple trusted confidants about this last night, and saying this is the best of a year of an era is something we try to avoid until we absolutely have to.
- [69:18]
Megan
It's very hyperbolic.
- [69:20]
C
It's just. You get to that point and you start just like, saying about everything, and nobody wants to do that, you know. And so we try to really restrain ourselves. But by the second or the Tweezer Prize jam that came out of Golden Age, they had suddenly played a jam that was on the level in all the cases, what they had played the previous two nights in terms of just deep prodding, wild improvisation that made us think, okay, now we have not only the flow of set 1, not only the shock value, not only humor, but now we have, like, really deep, wild jamming in this show. This is wild stuff, which puts it in a very special category. So I came up with this list could be whittled down, so feel free out there in the comments to come in with any sort of critiques of this or add a show that you think I'm missing. But I went through all the set lists for 4.0 went through where I've got jams on various lists and I came up with this large list that I think encapsulates just the best shows of the era. Post Covid. And this show is very much on there. And I'd be curious where people think that this lands. So a 3121, night one of Shoreline, the 47 minute Soul Planet also has a glide opener. Also has Colonel Forbin's has the Return of Axilla Part 2. Like that is a kind of a turning point show where like the goals of 4.0 were suddenly raised. Which is always such a fun thing about August 2021, fish. I think every single person, even the like most critical minded people out there were just like, dude, I just want to hear Fish play again. And then fish came out and they were playing way better than anyone anticipated. So 8 31, 21, 1031 or 1023 21. Excuse me. Chula Vista. Talk about like a structural breakdown show. You've got a lot of jamming in really weird places. You've got random bust outs. Huge fourth quarter jams in Piper. 1028, 21, the number show. Someone was talking about that in the chat that that was kind of the last big gimmick show where like you have a big overarching theme that carries the night that was all numbers based songs that you had a ton of hu. Huge jams in. 7, 28, 23, night one of the MSG run in summer.
- [71:47]
Megan
2023.
- [71:49]
C
Amazing, amazing show. Huge 20 minute wave of hope to kick things off. Big cities, big flowing second set flow. The key flow ended with a gigantic.
- [72:00]
Megan
Wild melt with that cool evening song. Like that was just such a vibe.
- [72:04]
C
Evening song kind of. Yeah, kind of foreshadowing. 2, 23, 24, night three in Mexico. 2024, where you've got really jammy flowy set one. 39 minute monster chalk dust in set two. And a very good. You know, you got a great Beneath the sea of Stars. Some really cool stuff to end that. Set 4, 21, 24, night 4 of the Sphere. This is the show that had a 35 minute disease plus 20 minute light, plus some outstanding jamming in set one. That ghost in set one is unbelievable. 8, 15, 24. I think this is the show of last year. Night one of Monda Green. Huge, huge segment with a gigantic. What's going through your mind? Chalk dust, light. Big moma opener. Big wave of Hope in set 1. 83024 from Dick's this was the Chalk Dust, Sand, Ruby, non segue suite of songs in the second set, plus some amazing jamming in the first set in no men's and as well as Steam. And then last night, 7:27 25 from Spock, where you get the. The tweezer prize carries us through. Thoughts on that? Anything that you think I should take off? Anything I'm missing here?
- [73:25]
Megan
No, it's just. I kind of forgot about this year. I'm like, wow, that was. Seems like so long ago now. No, I think that's an excellent list. I mean, I think that this year, the best shows to me from this year have been the Bill Graham Night one, the Manchester Night three. I think Philly night one was really good. And then, I mean, I don't even know what you do about Spack. I think you just take all three of them. I don't know. I mean, it's. It's kind of wild. But I think probably the best show of the year so far is back night three. But I think the other two nights at SPAC are so solid. I mean, Night Tube Spac has got to be up there.
- [74:05]
C
I have. Yeah. So I had to create a whole new tier for last night's show. So we have tier one, the Ikyulys tier, which is last night.
- [74:13]
Megan
I saw that on your note. It was thrilling.
- [74:15]
C
Tier 1A is night one of San Francisco, night three of Manchester, night one of Philly, and then the two. First two nights of SPAC. I don't think you can. Yeah, I don't think you can escape this year without those shows being highly represented the whole run. I don't know if they'll do this anymore because they kind of only do this for archival releases. But that's a box set. All three of those.
- [74:42]
Megan
Oh, my God. Right? Yeah. Just press play in all of them.
- [74:47]
C
As incredible purpose as Ikyulys tier above S tier. I mean, ikyulys tier. It is S tier tier. This is. This is as. This is as good as it gets.
- [74:55]
Megan
Oh, I got to see Brian at Spack. That was awesome.
- [74:58]
C
Oh, that's amazing.
- [75:00]
Megan
Yeah. Yeah.
- [75:02]
C
So what else do we have to say about these shows here before we. I. I guess I will say for anyone who is like, why is he wearing a T shirt? He only wears collared shirts. These shows. I'll just show you guys the first.
- [75:14]
Megan
Thing I said to you when you came on.
- [75:16]
C
I know. So this is an important thing. If you ever see a fish show with me, there's. There's a required at the End when we're leaving the show, I'm gonna put an album on in the car ride home. Okay. And that album for me is going to be kind of a reflection of the show. Maybe the show wasn't the greatest show and I need a little bit of a pick me up, you know? And so like, I put on like an older album that I really love and just like, okay, cool. Let's get back in the groove of the Weekend of a Fish tour. Pretty much every night leaving Boulder was Warren Zevan, because you just need really solid, contemplative, a bit left of center lyricism and poetry. But the very special nights, the best nights, we leave the venue listening to Tonight's the night for Mr. Neil.
- [76:11]
Megan
Hell, yeah.
- [76:12]
C
And I felt it was only appropriate coming into this episode that we wear the shirt because coming out of this run, it is a Tonight's the night run. This is. This is as good as it gets. So those of you watching, that is why I'm not dressed up for the podcast today.
- [76:32]
Megan
You dressed up just in a special way. I love it.
- [76:35]
C
Dressed up.
- [76:36]
Megan
Yeah, I agree. I. I don't. I can't say enough about this run. I haven't seen shows back to back like that, I guess since probably the 1997 MSG run. I guess that that's just. I can't imagine. I can't remember another time when I saw shows that strong back to back. So it's pretty thrilling.
- [76:57]
C
Yeah. Quite a way to end the tour. That's been the theme here in the chat that, you know, every. Every tour ender is melancholy in a way because we get in this great rhythm of either going to the shows or, you know, I look forward every night that they're webcasting, we're. We're hanging out, we've got it on tv. The kids get excited for it. My son's gotten to a point where he stays up into the second set and watches it and asks a bunch of questions. I love it. I love the whole rhythm. I love listening back to highlights the next morning. I love talking through things with everyone, trying to figure out where the band is at right now, what they're and when they end a tour like this. I think kind of similar to the, you know, the baseball analogy when your team wins a World Series, which I've only had happen once in my life for about six weeks, you're kind of just like dumbfounded and you're like, I've got no questions. I just have joy. And I don't really have a lot of questions right now about this band, which is wild considering the shows I saw this summer and considering, you know, where we. Where we were at, like, three weeks ago. Not worried, but, like, okay, what is going. Like, are we. What are we working through? Is everyone on the same page to end like this and walk off as emphatically as they did last night and over the last run? I think you just have to be feeling really awesome about the state of this band right now. We'll say it again. They have nothing left to prove, and yet they continue to play as though they have everything to prove. And that is my favorite approach to art and my favorite approach to music. And I'm just so thankful that we get to get to experience this with this band. And I can't wait to not only talk about the tour at large with you next week, but also bring back our Rushmore series. We've got a huge episode to kick things off. We've got a big draft coming up. We are not forgetting dicks this year, guys. We are doing a dick's draft in a couple of weeks. And then before you know it, we'll be talking about fall tour, which I will be calling fall tour. I don't. Even though it happens during summer, it's still. It's going to be fall tour.
- [79:07]
Megan
Well, and it's disconnected from this, so that makes sense. But, yeah, I have that. I have that feeling of. My daughter loves her birthday so much. And every year on her birthday, she would. You know, the lead up is so big, she's like a countdown on her phone. And the birthday is such a big thing. And every night on her birthday, when she was younger, I would go into her bed, say goodnight to her, and she'd be crying and she'd be like, it's just so sad that it's over. And I think that that's kind of. There's a bittersweet feeling to something that's so spectacular and ends so strongly. And I think the band's feeling that way, too. Mike put a really cute video out today. Feeling like, just expressing his gratitude and great vibes about the tour and the stride they hit and how great it felt. And, you know, I think they're just feeling really great. And it's. It's. We always say on this show that we're critical and we're analytical because they're this good. And this is one of those runs that just shows exact why we have such high expectations. Zero complaints.
- [80:03]
C
That's it. And, yeah, the Christmas analogy is it's a Good one because we got Fall. We'll have msg, we'll have Mexico. But like, this was the one thing that made me sad leaving the Boulder shows was it was the first time. I have no idea the next time I'm gonna see this band because I don't know if they're going back to Dick's.
- [80:18]
Brian
I don't know.
- [80:19]
C
Like we don't know what's gonna happen. So. I hear you. The good news is we have a lot of great music to continue to listen back. Listen back to. I continue to make playlists. I gotta update my Best of 4.0 playlist and send it out to everyone. I'm still. I'm working through an all Timer Fish Jams playlist on Live Fish.
- [80:38]
Megan
Oh my God. That's amazing.
- [80:40]
C
We also have other bands we, we have to dedicate some time to as well. Plus there's new music. It just never ends. I will answer just a couple questions here from the chat because I think that they're relevant right now. What song is Rushmore? Spill the beans. The next Rushmore will be the week of August 11th. I don't know the exact time that we are or date we're recording, but that will be AC DC Bag. Yeah.
- [81:07]
Megan
So fun.
- [81:08]
C
It's going to be really fun. I've been listening through it. Meg is going to post the list here probably within the next week. So you guys can check in. But ACC Bag will be up next. And then we get back into it. We've got like, I don't know, what.
- [81:22]
Megan
Am I taking next? Brian.
- [81:25]
C
After a CDC Bag is a new song. Sigma Oasis will be Meg's selection the week after. And then we'll be doing our. Then we'll be doing our Dick's Shows and Jams draft, which will happen. So those are the next three episodes following our summer tour recap. Next week we're going to do a big what all happened on this tour? What does it all mean? Favorite jams, favorite jams, all that sort of stuff. Meg, question for you from evdude. Are you a yay or nay on another Forest Hills run?
- [81:57]
Megan
I don't think it's gonna happen. It was so small and I don't know if that venue is really equipped to handle that many Fish fans. But I will say that I loved the venue. It's so intimate. There's not a single bad seat in the venue. The sight lines are incredible and being outdoors in that environment is incredible. When you're looking at the stage, I was like dead on on the second Night there is. When you look over to the left of the stage, there's all these Tudor homes that are there. And then behind that is kind of like the brutalist modern architecture buildings. And behind that are these glass skyscrapers. And so it's kind of these three historical points of architecture in New York City while you're watching a fish show. It's absolutely magical. So I think it would be really cool. But I don't think it's going to happen again. And too many chompers. So I'm split.
- [82:52]
C
I feel the opp. Or the same way for opposite reasons about Folsom. I think that the size definitely impacted their ability to go back there. And I think that they'll go to Dick's as well. I think that this was a summer of testing a few things out. I mean it makes the most sense for them if they're going to play New York City to just do like another mini Baker's dozen like they did.
- [83:17]
Megan
In 23, like or go back to Randall's. That was so fun. I loved that venue. I thought that was really fun and I think it'd be great. It's such a cool festival vibe. It's hard to get to but I mean there's nothing like riding the subway to see a fish show. So I was down for that. It was was. It was really cool. I just think that it's a little bit. It's probably not going to happen again. It's pretty small for them. But I do think too benefited. Yeah, the pictures were. I mean it was a great. The venue's so cool. Everybody dressed in like. Everybody that works there is in like tennis whites.
- [83:48]
C
Oh, that's awesome.
- [83:49]
Megan
It's really, really cool. Yeah. But I think early start is hard for the band. Like I think it's the sun was in their eyes the whole time. It's not really a vibe. You know, I think maybe Folsom suffered from that a little bit too. I don't know.
- [84:02]
C
It's tough to try new things. I mean, I think things worked out really nicely at Forest Hills, but I think you're right logistically. One additional question. I think that I'm giving you the right answer here. This is from Glenn Russell. When will the updated Top 25 Tours list be posted? Oh, I'm starting to realize this is potentially a joke because of how great this tour was. So. Hahaha. We will do top 25 tours again at some point. Just probably not for 20 years. But I am posting just so you have it, the link to the Blog post with the top 25 tours in case someone is looking for that and in need of reading through that. That has all the Jam recommendations, all the show recommendations.
- [84:44]
Megan
And I have about five shirts left. Maybe four or five shirts left. So if you want one, they're. They're gonna go soon. And I'm sorry if I haven't sent out one that you've ordered. I'm. I've been traveling with shows and then work this week, so I'm getting them out next week.
- [84:59]
C
They're great shirts. Very comfy. Sherman says if they can't do Dicks, I'd love another Folsom run. I heard rumors of a Halloween ball arena. That would be the end of me seeing Fish. Not into that Shermouth. We need to see you at Fish shows. I have not heard anything about a ball arena show.
- [85:17]
Megan
What's that? What's ball arena?
- [85:19]
C
That's where the Nuggets play. It's right downtown Denver. I'd be into it. It's not the most concert aesthetically pleasing venue. It's kind of like them playing the United Center. I don't know. I keep going back and forth on if I want them to play Dicks or Folsom again. I just want.
- [85:40]
Megan
You love dicks, right?
- [85:42]
C
I mean, I love Dicks. It's just. It is like the. The chill factor of Folsom for these old bones. Really, it's beautiful. You. You just. You have. There's nothing to worry about. But I would just like for the people who run Dicks and Folsom to accept that they're hosting a three to four night Fish run and act accordingly. That's all I'm asking.
- [86:10]
Megan
Get over it. Just cover it.
- [86:12]
C
What is this nonsense about booking a band and then being like, don't be your yourselves, like, what are you doing here?
- [86:19]
Megan
And like, how much money are we bringing into your neighbor? Like, come on. Like, that's. That's ridiculous. I will also say that I saw the SPAC vibe was so chill that I saw over two days. One nitrous tank.
- [86:31]
C
Yeah, one.
- [86:32]
Megan
It was pretty magical chill there. Yeah. It was really a nice change after being at the man, which was like 4,000 nitrous tanks around everywhere.
- [86:45]
C
I did think I might break my no travel for fish after 100 shows agreement I made with myself to go to SPAC at some point in a future year, knowing it will be.
- [86:56]
Megan
Maybe we can see a show together.
- [86:57]
C
25. That would be very nice. But I love that venue. It's very idyllic. It's beautiful. It definitely has that old school feel. So anyway, without rj, we are just running our fourth quarter. We've just gone a life beyond the dream into 2001 into character 0 into possum because one set closed was not enough. So we're going to leave you all with this. Hopefully we did justice to five really remarkable shows including an excellent three night run to close out December 2025 tour and an all timer show. We'll be back next week. We'll announce the date and time to run through the entire tour and then we'll be back with Rushmore. Back to regular business. Thank you all for hanging with us. Thank you all for chatting it up here. Thank you for coming to a nighttime taping of the Helping friendly podcast Helping Friendly podcast After Dark, if you will. We'll see you guys all soon and I hope that you all are enjoying all the jams and shows you have to listen back to. See you guys soon.
- [88:07]
Megan
Thanks everyone.
- [88:16]
C
Sam Foreign.
- [88:59]
Megan
Hi, I'm Kristen Bell and if you know my husband Dax, then you also know he loves shopping for a car. Selling a car, not so much.
- [89:06]
Brian
We're really doing this, huh?
- [89:08]
Megan
Thankfully, Carvana makes it easy. Answer a few questions, put in your VIN or license and done. We sold ours in minutes this morning and they'll come pick it up and pay us this afternoon.
- [89:18]
C
Bye bye Truckee.
- [89:20]
Megan
Of course, we kept the favorite.
- [89:23]
C
Hello other Truckee.
- [89:25]
Megan
Sell your car with Carvana today. Terms and conditions apply.