2025 Summer Tour Recaps: Philly + Chicago

Summary

Helping Friendly Podcast Episode Summary Episode: 2025 Summer Tour Recaps: Philly + Chicago
Release Date: July 23, 2025
Host/Author: Osiris Media

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Introduction

In this episode of the Helping Friendly Podcast (HFPod), hosts RJ, Megan, and Brian delve into comprehensive recaps of Phish's 2025 summer tour performances in Philadelphia and Chicago. They analyze setlists, discuss song selections, engage with listener voicemails, and explore the intricate dynamics of Phish's live performances.

Recap of Summer Tour Shows: Philadelphia and Chicago

The hosts begin by acknowledging that they will cover five out of the six recent Phish shows, excluding one that Megan attended but is restricted from discussing on-air.

Megan shares her experience attending a Phish show at a historic New York venue:

"It was really fun to see Fish there. So small, so intimate. It was really cool."
[02:52]

RJ draws parallels between the current tour and Phish's 1998 summer tour, noting similarities in song choices and set flow:

"This tour actually reminds me a lot of Summer 98... weird song choices and some monster jams."
[19:29]

Listener Interactions and Voicemails

The podcast features listener voicemails that spark engaging discussions. Notably, Don poses a thought-provoking question about Phish songs reaching "Immortal Jam King" status:

"If there was one song in the catalog that you feel like has the potential to reach Immortal Jam King status, what would that song be?"
[05:15]

Brian responds by highlighting "Ruby Waves" as a candidate, emphasizing its jam potential and diverse improvisational sections:

"Ruby Waves... just there's untapped potential with that song as they continue."
[08:29]

Megan concurs, adding that "Fuego" has seen increased jamming:

"They've been jamming it so much. I really think it's going to continue to grow."
[08:43]

Another voicemail from Alan shares a heartfelt story about attending a Phish show on his 50th birthday, underscoring the band's profound personal impact:

"That's a religion for me. I find my peace, my joy, my release."
[14:25]

Setlist Strategies and Catalog Choices

A significant portion of the discussion centers on Phish's intentional selection from their expansive catalog and its impact on show flow.

Megan observes:

"They're pulling from the catalog in a really intentional way, and I want to think about how that affects flow."
[15:58]

Brian references the 2012 tour where Phish aimed to play 252 unique songs, revitalizing their performances with rarities:

"They really reinvigorated that overall tour with a lot of rare songs, a lot of bust outs."
[16:33]

RJ adds historical context, comparing current performances to past tours:

"It reminds me of that where you're getting these kind of uneven sets with weird bust outs and monster jams."
[20:12]

Brian further analyzes specific setlist patterns, praising shows where rare songs are seamlessly integrated without disrupting the flow:

"They're injecting a few songs that you’re not expecting to hear that night and that kind of elevates it."
[24:27]

Analysis of Specific Shows

The hosts provide detailed critiques of particular performances, highlighting both strengths and areas of concern.

The Man Night 1 is lauded as one of the best shows of the year, with a balanced mix of familiar songs and rare bust outs:

"Every single one of these songs made my larger jam list that I work through."
[62:45]

Conversely, Man Night 2 and other shows receive mixed reviews due to extended set lengths leading to rushed segments:

"The first set was too long, and then it took away from the second set."
[53:14]

Chicago Nights 1-3 are praised for their energetic jams and effective use of effects, though some inconsistencies are noted:

"Set two, we've talked about this, and this is the first set of the tour that every single one of these songs made my larger jam list."
[60:32]

Challenges and Observations

The hosts discuss external factors affecting performances, such as weather conditions and venue types.

RJ raises concerns about the increasing number of indoor shows due to rising temperatures and weather unpredictability:

"Are we just going to have more indoor shows during the summer at some point because it's too hot?"
[47:09]

Megan adds a humorous note about Trey wearing jackets despite the heat:

"He was literally wearing a jacket over a T-shirt. It's so confusing."
[48:19]

They also touch upon the logistical challenges of longer sets and how set timing impacts overall show energy and flow.

Concluding Remarks

The episode wraps up with final thoughts on Phish's evolving performance style and setlist strategies. The hosts emphasize the band's continued excellence in jamming while acknowledging the delicate balance required to maintain show flow amidst an ever-expanding song catalog.

Brian reflects on the mystical nature of Phish's live performances:

"This is really, mystical stuff that they are playing around with. And when it works, holy crap, it works."
[30:01]

Megan underscores the elite artistry of Phish's live improvisations:

"It is something that I think I would love to talk more to people that do it because it's pretty interesting."
[41:24]

The hosts conclude by encouraging listeners to tune in for future episodes and continue supporting the podcast through reviews and subscriptions.

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Notable Quotes:

• Don on soundchecks:
  "There must be a reason why the band chooses to sound check."
  [11:02]

• Megan on "Ruby Waves":
  "They just seem to really be clicking on all cylinders, enjoying playing it lately."
  [08:29]

• Brian on setlist reinvigoration:
  "They really reinvigorated that overall tour with a lot of rare songs, a lot of bust outs."
  [16:33]

• Megan on Phish's impact:
  "They are human... they do it more often than anyone else and it's incredible."
  [32:48]

• Brian on indoor shows trend:
  "Are we just going to have more indoor shows during the summer at some point because it's too hot?"
  [47:09]

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Final Thoughts

This episode of Helping Friendly Podcast offers an in-depth exploration of Phish's 2025 summer tour, blending analytical insights with passionate fan perspectives. Whether you're a longtime Phish enthusiast or new to the band's vibrant live performances, this recap provides valuable takeaways on the evolving landscape of Phish's musical journey.

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Transcript

[RJ]

Hey listeners. I want to tell you about an event this summer. The Roots Rock Revival Music Masters Collective is inviting you to the beautiful Catskills at Full Moon Resort for a four day all inclusive music exploratory experience like no other. It's a week full of incredible music, creativity and connection. There will be intensive songwriting and music making with incredible artists like North Mississippi All Stars, brother and sister band, the Nth Power Taz, Steelin Peaches and more. They'll be showcasing intimate performances every night and hands on workshops during the day. There will also be an amazing wellness tent with meditation, yoga and massage as well as a deeply relaxing scene around the brand new pool. Whether you're a seasoned musician just starting out or simply a fan, they've designed this year so there's something here for everyone. And it's more than just an event. It's an opportunity to connect with the music directly, with artists, play with legends and with the amazing community of people who share your passion. Space is extremely limited because this is a truly personal experience. So don't wait. Grab your spot now. Everything's included. Lodging, meals, workshops, performances and a whole lot of good vibes. This is just the beginning. Artists have started their careers here. Bands have been formed once in a lifetime. Collaborations are witness. You do not want to miss it. Check it [e-mail] helpingfriendly. That's rootsrockrevival.com helping friendly.

[Megan]

Osiris.

[RJ]

Yep, I did. What's up everybody? It's Wednesday. We are back at Sage of Pod. We are gonna go through the last five shows. Actually five of the last six shows because last night Megan was at a show that we're not allowed to talk about today. Megan, hope you had fun, but. But can't hear about it yet. We are going to recap. I think we're going to recap Forest Hills and Spac on Monday at some point. Just, just everyone knows. So we will figure that out. There's a scheduling conflict right now that we haven't resolved yet. I don't even know if Brian and Megan know about it, but they will soon. But. Welcome everybody. Hey, Megan. Hey, Brian.

[Megan]

Hey, guys.

[Brian]

To take your car in this morning as well.

[RJ]

No, no, no, no, no. I mean, if you want me to tell you about what's going on next Monday, I'm happy to go through it.

[Brian]

Let's do it. Let's have.

[RJ]

Let's do a pair of notes right now.

[Megan]

What's happening? Tell us. I mean, I'm sure people want to hear about that. More last night, anyway.

[RJ]

Yeah, that's true.

[Megan]

Get into it.

[Brian]

We're not going to talk about your experience last night.

[Megan]

I know.

[RJ]

Megan, how was the show?

[Megan]

It was. It was really fun. I had a great time. What an amazing venue. Absolutely beautiful. Really cool place. Just such a piece of New York history. It was really fun to see Fish there. So small, so intimate. It was really cool. First set I have thoughts about, but had a really great second set.

[RJ]

Awesome. Yeah, I mean, I. I'm glad that Fish is following Goose's footsteps and playing there. Saw Goose there last year and I think everyone knew that. That you just had to. Had to get a fish show there or two.

[Megan]

Yeah, Summer New York City. Fish is pretty special.

[RJ]

Okay. We have five shows to recap. We are going to do it a little bit differently. We're going to do it, you know, we're going to. We're not going to run through every set. So if you're hoping for a recap of every song that they played, you can look on fish.net, they have all the set lists from all the shows ever. Actually, how about if we take just a couple quick voicemails before we start? How do you guys feel about that, given that we're trying to do this quickly? Think that makes sense?

[Megan]

Yeah, let's do it.

[Brian]

Yeah, man. Roll them. Roll the tape down.

[RJ]

Roll the tape. I will say we have a lot of voicemails left over from our. From our episode last week. We will keep them and we will continue. I have them in a folder. We're going to roll them out as soon as we can. And also keep leaving us reviews on Apple, please. That helps. So just open Apple Podcasts and leave us a review that'll help other people discover the pod. Also, if you want to get some of these episodes ad free, you can go to osirispod.com premium or you can subscribe, I think, for $4.99 a month. In Apple, that helps us keep the lights on. So consider doing that to support us. Streamyard just hit us up, didn't they, Brian? Streamyard, this service just charged us hundreds and hundreds of dollars. So now we need to find those hundreds of dollars.

[Brian]

I did some digging and I sent you a screenshot of. Of comparable billing options. And I think. I think I figured out the issue, but this is. Hey, Streamyard, we didn't need the upgrade buds upgrade.

[RJ]

And they're not even on Blue sky yet. It's like, what are we upgrading to? We're upgrading to less stuff. Okay. In the meantime, we will. Let's listen to it. Let's listen to a voicemail. This is from last week. Brian. I just. This is for both of you, but I just. I think Brian will particularly like this one. And it's not for discussion. It's just for listening and then thinking about later.

[Brian]

Not too bad because I already have notes on it.

[Don]

Hello, everybody. My name is Don. I'm in Westchester, New York. Hopefully looking forward to seeing some of you guys over at Forest Hills and Spac. I have a question for you. It's more of like an exercise, but let's see here. Maybe it'll make it to the mailbag episode. If there ever were a song in the catalog that you feel like has the potential to possibly reaching Immortal Jam King status, of course I'm talking about Tweezer. There's ever a song that you feel like could ever get to the same level as Tweezer or even possibly, possibly for, you know, surpass it. What would that song be? I personally don't think it could happen, but if there was one that I had to pick, I would say it's Fuego. They just seem to really be clicking on all cylinders, enjoying playing it lately, really sticking it out there. Person that extended runs and it just seems like it's growing and growing. So, looking forward to hearing what you guys have to say. Thanks for all you do at the pod. Enjoy the rest of the summer. Have fun, guys.

[Megan]

Can I tell you a really cool story about that voicemail?

[RJ]

Yeah, I'd love to hear it.

[Megan]

So I met Dan last night. He was sitting like two rows behind me at the show, actually, I think one row behind me. And he came up to me and said that he left this voicemail and I said, oh, I heard it. Did we cover it, though? I don't think we did. I think we ran out of time. And he was like, oh, that's okay. So I'm so glad you're playing that because I saw him last night at Forest Hills and he had great things to say about the pod. And he's going to be so happy that we're talking about his voicemail right now.

[RJ]

That's awesome. The universe. The universe gets us there, you know, so great.

[Megan]

Absolutely.

[RJ]

Brian, are we. Do you have a short. Do we have to cover this in a different episode or how do we do this?

[Brian]

No, I mean, I thought about this. I think it's a really interesting question. I think it's a big question because as he's right, I mean, Tweezers still is, you know, even if you get a 14 minute tweezer within a segment or whether you get a monster 30 minute tweezer that really anchors a set and anchors a run, it's still a song that can define, you know, significant moments in the band's history, their development. I don't know if a song could reach that levels but. But the song that I think when they play it, they immediately fall into that unlike untapped jamming space is Ruby Waves. It also has the like Fuego is a good call. Fuego's got like a.270 batting average overall in terms of like it's great jams versus the amount of times it's been played. Ruby Waves, but what differentiates it for me is like Fuego takes like eight minutes to get out of and then into jamming space. Whereas Ruby Waves is like a 2 1/2 minute long song and then they're just, just off and running. And the jamming is so diverse. And you get stuff like Dayton 23 that has really weird noise space or San Francisco 25 that falls into like really beautiful like heart wrenching melodic space and everything kind of in between. It's just there's untapped potential with that song as they continue.

[Megan]

Yeah, absolutely. I agree with that. I think I was talking to Dan about this last night about Fuego and right now it has like a 50% batting average. Recently it's like shifted. It's. They're just jamming it so much. I really think. And maybe this is just recency bias.

[Brian]

But I really stand of advanced stats by the way, like recent batting average. I love it. Meg, nice job.

[Megan]

Thank you. Thanks. I really think what's going through your mind is so inspiring for them right now and they can fall into that jam. I'm not going to talk about last night because I'm not allowed to, but the way they fell into the jam last night was so fast out of that song and it just locked in so like in such a tight pocket. And I think that song has already gone huge in the year that it's been out and I think it's going to continue to grow. Will it be Tweezer? Like I don't know if anything ever will be. But there's two other songs that I just want to mention that I thought when they first debuted. I can't really quick.

[RJ]

No, no, you can just take mine, take mine. And then I'll repeat what you said and then I'll make.

[Megan]

It won't be yours. It won't matters. I just think I Think I stuck.

[Brian]

To 1. RJ, just for the record.

[RJ]

I know, and I had mine ready to go, and then I just couldn't because Meg kept talking.

[Megan]

I'll go quick. I just think oblivion and the well have like, massive, massive potential, but just haven't been there lately.

[Brian]

I'll believe it when I see it.

[Megan]

Yeah.

[RJ]

You guys. Okay, There's a song that I think that I was going to talk about today, because when it started at the Man, I realized that I really, really love this song. And it has a 41 so far. Actually, probably more like 45, because I think the most recent two will end up on the jam chart. Jam chart entry. You guys know what I'm talking about.

[Brian]

I do.

[RJ]

From out of the chaos the wave appears.

[Megan]

I mean, come on.

[RJ]

I mean, come on. You kidding me? We've already had what. We've had like four 20 plus minute versions. We've had a 35 minute version, the one from the man, which maybe we can. We can get into. I thought was promising and fun, but. Okay, so we got. We got. We answered that question. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so thank you for your voicemail, and I feel like we have more to talk about there, but we. We can't. Do we have time for another voicemail or do we have to go, you guys?

[Brian]

Yeah, I got like six more answers to the Jam King, so, you know, let's just.

[RJ]

I know, I know. Well, you guys just joke. Okay. Brian.

[Brian]

I think it's Ruby Wade's I'm done.

[RJ]

Tier one, tier one to tier six list, which he'll share soon on social media.

[Don]

Hey there. Big, big fan and appreciate what you guys do. I have a question for you guys and maybe for the audience. Can someone explain to me why Fish seems to do sound check for My Soul more than any other song now? It happens to be my least favorite song, maybe by a mile.

[Megan]

Totally.

[Don]

There must be a reason why the band chooses to sound check. Michael. It seems like it's almost every time I see a list of soundcheck songs, it's there. And I don't understand why. If you guys could explain. Thanks so much.

[RJ]

Okay, I have a theory, but do either of you guys have a theory?

[Brian]

Go with your theory. I want to hear you first.

[RJ]

Okay, so my theory is a. There's a lot of singing, so you get like a lot of vocal check out of the song. You get all. I think all four of them sing, so I think you get like mic checks from all four band members. It's like fairly simple to play. Um, it's got, like, a straightforward beat, so it's not something you have to, like, really rehearse. And then I think the. I think it's just, like, an easy blues song. It's like how they used to play, like, Shaggy Dog or something, you know, like, it sound checks. It's just like, simple blue song. They all kind of sing. So you get, like, a little mic check, and you get some. Some simple sound check without, like, something complicated that they have to rehearse. 12 Bar Blues is a great warmup. Ed says. Edd ed with two D's. What do you guys.

[Brian]

Amazing way. Yeah. I have nothing really to add. It's. It's a way to make sure that they're locked up. The sound is good. They're connected. There's nothing really strange about it. There's no real, like, weird breakdowns. It just gives them a chance to see. I think it's why they play it, like, early in. First set. Sometime is. Let's just get back on the same page. 12 Bar Blues is like the home place. Let's just try that out, and you can build up that energy, all that sort of stuff. I think you're spot on.

[Megan]

Yeah, I agree. The only thing I'd add is as a singer, that's a perfect vocal warmup. It's really hard to sing. Like, you have to really articulate that, and it's good to kind of get your mouth moving like that before you're gonna sing.

[Brian]

That's a good call. That's a good call. It does everything. Then it's like the fish reset, which is why we go to the bathroom during it.

[Megan]

Perfect for us. It's a reset for us too.

[RJ]

Yeah, it is. It's a reset for everybody then. Listen to me. Megan had the best answer. As a trained actor. She knows, so.

[Megan]

I'm such a serious actor.

[RJ]

Yeah, you are. You're very.

[Megan]

All that years in college, I did a lot of, like, those weird. Have you ever. You know the beginning of Anchorman when Ron Burgundy does all those, like, vocal warm ups? Yeah, I legit did those for years. Like, I know those are real. I mean, he makes up some absolutely killer ones, but those are what people do, so. So my soul is like the Ron Burgundy warmup, I guess.

[RJ]

That's awesome.

[Megan]

New York.

[RJ]

I'd like.

[Brian]

I'm actually into. Somehow. You guys have got me into my soul now. Cool.

[Megan]

It switched. And he likes and he likes my soul.

[Brian]

Definitely have the best vibes this summer. Better vibes than anyone this summer.

[Megan]

What's happening? It's Amazing.

[RJ]

All right. If you had a 12 minute commute to work and you were hoping to get to some show recaps, then I'm sorry, but we're getting to it.

[Megan]

Do not take this quote out and misquote us. POD says my soul does everything. Oh, my God, that's hilarious.

[RJ]

I mean, we're gonna do the My.

[Brian]

Soul Rushmore next year. You guys know it's gonna happen.

[RJ]

That would be so painful. Okay, Alan. Alan from Nelson BC wrote us and he just. He shared a quick story that I wanted to share with you guys. And then we'll. We'll get to the recap. Folsom Night 37525 was the night before my 50th birthday, and it was my 50th show. It was amazing all weekend. But that week, that night felt like the whole weekend had been a slow build all the way up to the Happy Birthday in the crosshair and painless Jam. I was with a big crew of 27 people on a party bus when Trey played Happy Birthday. Yes, yes, I know. It was for rza. Everyone came dancing over to me with high fives and hugs and giant smiles of disbelief. It was magical as any fish show can be for one individual. But for me, that was my night. 50 by 50, this band's a religion for me. I find my peace, my joy, my release And I believe in the messages. You got one life to live? Live while I'm young? Evolve everything's right? There's got to be something more than this. It's love, it's love. It's always love. We've got it simple because we've got a band. Thanks again for being a voice to turn to that allows me to see that I'm not alone in this crazy ride. That's from Alan. Oh, pretty cool.

[Brian]

Good stuff. That's really good stuff.

[RJ]

Okay, Megan, I have a question for you.

[Megan]

Okay.

[RJ]

We were looking at these five shows, two man shows and three Chicago shows. Do you have something that you want to either ask us or talk about across these five shows?

[Megan]

Yeah, I do. I have a lot I want to talk to you guys about. But one thing that I'm interested in is this idea of them pulling from the catalog in a really intentional way. And I want to think about how that affects flow. And I think they've. They've had certain shows that they've done that they've done it really well and certain shows where it hasn't worked as well. And I was wondering if either of you can think of a time in history when they've been intentionally pulling from the catalog and that it either has or hasn't affected flow.

[Brian]

Yeah, I mean, I can think of. I can think of a couple or I can think of one example where. I guess, yeah, one example where it really benefited the band, I think was the summer of 2012 when they came back with the stated goal of playing. It was like at the time, 252 unique songs in a calendar year or within a tour, they had not exceeded that prior. Trey got wind of that record and was like, we're going to break that. He's quoted it in Rolling Stone in an interview before the tour started and to that point in time, especially towards the back half of 2011, specifically that MSG run. But like parts of June, even setlist had kind of gotten really stale. You knew you were getting at the end of a two night run, a you Enjoy Myself to close set two, you knew you were getting certain songs in very specific spots. And as a result, the set list started to feel kind of static in a way. And they really reinvigorated, especially in June, the set lists with a ton of rarities at the time, some pretty big bust outs, Songs like Lagrange, Light up or Leave Me Alone blanking right now, but they're scattered across the entire tour. They really reinvigorated that overall tour with a lot of rare songs, a lot of bust outs. And it added to it because you were still at a period where the band was going to play 12 song first sets, 11 song second sets. But the unexpected nature of those songs coming in really, really benefited the overall flow of things. I think to what your point is. And I think this speaks to kind of a larger thing of where Phish is at right now. We've talked a lot about how over the last 15 years they've injected 100 plus new songs into the catalog and into the rotation. Some of those have stuck, songs like Fuego, Everything's Right, so on and so forth that like have become real jam statements. Others they kind of need to work in and they don't necessarily fit as much. And as a result we have kind of a block of songs that are within the like 100 to 500 show bust out range that are not really that shocking of songs if they were played because they've just kind of fallen out of the rotation. And so I think there's a sense of like bringing some of these songs back in or giving them another chance in the rotation that feels almost like a pause within the show. Like we're going into this and then we'll get back to like where our strengths are at this point in time. I don't know. That's kind of my initial thought on it all, but I'll let you guys.

[RJ]

So here's my take. And this might be wrong, which I like to preface that. I shouldn't preface that. Let me start over. Here's my take, which is definitely correct.

[Brian]

There you go.

[RJ]

This tour actually reminds me a lot of Summer 98. The song bust Outs are different. You know, that was. Those were all covers. Obviously we have Meg's favorite show from 7:15 and many others. But you know, it's these like kind of weird, weird song choices. Kind of weird flow sometimes. But then these like monster jams, you know, the Riverport Gin, obviously the Runaway Gym from Star Lake. Some of the, you know there's so many. But it reminds me of that. And then there's also like in that tour there's a little bit of this like stretching out songs that we didn't typically hear. Stretched out. Right. That happened a few times. Merweather. And um. Yeah, there's.

[Brian]

It's just.

[RJ]

Yeah. Buried Alive. So it reminds me of that where you're like, you're getting these kind of like uneven sort of sets at times with these like weird bust outs and songs that you know a lot of one time songs but. But then these like monster jams and it feels like when you go back and listen to those full shows, they don't really like. I wouldn't go back to a lot of those shows to listen straight through, but I would listen to those jams and I wonder if this tour is going to end up feeling like that. I don't know.

[Megan]

Yeah, that's kind of how it's feeling to me a little bit in that we're just getting some absolutely, you know, huge tent pole like jams that just completely carry a show. And then also. But fewer like full consistent flow shows. Some sets that are really doing that. But it's interesting and I just. Thank you. I wanted to hear both of your thoughts historically about that.

[RJ]

Yeah, I mean, what do you think? What do you think about those two comparisons? Megan? Do we. Did you think that either of those.

[Megan]

Yeah, those would be the two that I would think of as like intentionally playing a lot of different songs. It's interesting because I see them kind of pushing and pulling on that similar to what you were saying, Brian, because like last night, you know, they'll play a first set where you know they're gonna play you could call that like, they're gonna play Sigma, Oasis, they're gonna play the Moment Ants. But then they're also trying to find ways to play some other songs too. And it's just interesting to see them kind of push and pull between the kind of routine set list that they found themselves in recently and also incorporate some of these rarities. And I think it's hard to do, and especially when you're not writing out these set lists, you know, if you're calling this stuff on the fly, it's just really hard to incorporate stuff you haven't played in a long time or with an increasingly large song catalog. You know, I think about in 1998, how many fewer songs they had compared to now. It's just like crazy, you know? And so when you have such a huge catalog that you pull from, it becomes harder to incorporate older stuff into that seamlessly. I think.

[Brian]

It'S interesting to talk about this because one show where I think that this whole approach worked incredibly well was The Man Night 1, 100%.

[Megan]

Yeah.

[Brian]

Which I think at this point is the best show that they've played in 2025.

[RJ]

Yeah, I agree.

[Megan]

Yeah.

[Brian]

Sorry, Meg.

[Megan]

Listen, I knew when I was watching, I was like, I'm so fucked tomorrow. Yeah, right, right.

[Brian]

You see a show like that, you're like, okay. It's just very special when that stuff happens. And I'm just looking at the gap chart and it's interesting. The first set opens with punch and everything's right. That's an eight show gap and a five show gap. Those are within the rotation. Those are just songs that they just know how to play right now. They know how to deliver. You get Camel Walk, that has a 98 show gap at that point in time. Then the rest of the set. The only song to exceed a 12 show gap is It's Ice, which I think would be surprising to think that hadn't been played yet in 2024. That's just kind of a song we think of in the rotation, but they haven't played it. And so it injects like a little bit of like this specialness in the second set. Stan, my friend Blaison, Karini, all have seven or five show gaps. Those are right in the rotation. But right in the middle of there is this super fun, energetic little rock song in place of a ballad boogie on Reggae Woman, that was on a 19, but it's like, it's on like a 19 show gap as well. So they're like kind of bringing something back into the rotation that is like a little bit distant again in the encore shade and I didn't know are on a 24 and 47 show gap. But then the show ends with Wilson Possum 5 and 7 show Gap. All of these like, it's just like a great mix of songs that they know how to play, they know where to play them, they know like the reliable aspect of playing them. But then they're injecting a few songs that whereas there could be another rotational song right here or kind of a slower song to kind of like mellow things out, they inject a little bit more excitement with not a crazy bust out but like a song that you're not expecting to hear that night and that kind of elevates it versus other nights where they are clearly injecting more and more old rare songs that I think take a second to like feel like home when you're at the show.

[Megan]

Yeah, I think that's a really good point. And I think that hitting these songs that are more like 50 to 100 show gap is. Is a sweet spot because they're not so out of the rotation for them that it's like work for them to play them.

[RJ]

I. Okay, so I'm going to start with. I'm going to start with the good news for. For set list calls. I think we're talking about these five shows. I think all 10 opening calls were great. Like each set, Sand Punching the Ice, sand the Dogs, Curtain with Harry Hood, no Men, Life Saving, Gun Tube, Cars, Tracks, Buses Got a Jaboo. I think those are all like great calls to start sets. So I think. Yeah, I think that's awesome. And I think that's like a strength of this tour. It feels like that's like very thoughtful of those five shows. I think one of those five has a last 45 minutes that's good. And that was the one. The show we were just talking about. I feel like. And I, you know, you guys know I don't stream. I look at the set list and the live Fish timings like right when I wake up. And it's like four songs that are seven minutes each to close every show. And it's just like. So you get one out of five that like really kind of takes the energy full speed until the end of the show. And we should talk eventually about the longer tour and how that shakes out. But is that just like. Is that just how Fish works now? Like, you basically you have like these chunks of the show that are going to be great. You have the second Set starting until an hour in.

[Megan]

It's an hour of power.

[RJ]

Yeah. And then you have 20 or 30 minutes of the first set if you're lucky. That's going to be like insane.

[Megan]

I mean I think there are two shows that did that fairly well out of these five shows. I actually think that the man Night one, obviously we talked about that boogie on BLAISON CARINI. Fantastic fourth quarter. But I also think Chicago Night 2 Pillow Jets 2001 Chalk Dust is a great fourth quarter. I also think fourth quarters are so dependent on what comes before them. Obviously. But if you're going to play a monster jam in the, in the third quarter, fourth quarter immediately gets like a handicap or whatever you call it in some sort of sports technique where you're like, okay, you're already starting at a higher point. But I do think Pillow jets 2001 Chalk dust is energetic. Pillow jets is interesting enough to not be the usual. And 2001 didn't. It sounded earned. In that case it didn't sound like shit. What do we play? It's fourth quarter play 2001 it fit. Yeah, it had like a vibe. And I think like for me more than anything there has to be like the flow needs to continue in the fourth quarter and I think that's what Chicago Night 2 did really well. But yeah, the rest of them, I think either the energy dips or, or it seems scripted or it just wasn't inspired or wasn't strong enough to carry it.

[RJ]

Brian, I want to hear your take on this. I just want to say for the record, because I'll get yelled at and I'm happy to do that. I think that 2001 was completely fine. Totally fine.

[Megan]

Yeah, yeah, me too.

[Brian]

Totally fine.

[Megan]

Just fine.

[Brian]

It was very service. I mean this was not like a. This was not like the number show 2001 where we like heard new ideas coming out of 2001. But it was not your rote six minute. Let's just do the lights so that you know, everyone hanging out on a Saturday night getting their party on likes to, you know, likes the vibe. Yeah, I mean I think what you're speaking to is something we've honestly seen throughout their history. I think the dirty secret of 40 plus minute jams is that they tend to not be complimented by a great set around them. A lot of those 94, 95 big jams kind of come in a set that's just like a grab bag. Albany 2009 they play back to back 20 minute jams and 7 below and ghosts and the Rest of the set is kind of just like, okay, the Tahoe Tweezer. Nobody listens past the Tahoe Tweezer. The MSG tweezer. I know one person who fights for the rest of that set. I don't understand why other than the fact that they were there.

[Megan]

Not true.

[Brian]

I'm not talking about you.

[RJ]

The. The. The.

[Brian]

But yes, you do. Other examples that one of the things that makes that man show so fantastic is that you get this really outstanding near with *40minute jam. I know what it says on live fish, RJ, but I also know how long it actually is. You get a near 40 minute.

[RJ]

So are we doing that. Are we doing that with every jam from now on? Are you going to retime the live fish timings for every jam?

[Brian]

I. Unfortunately, I'm required to go based off of the fish.netjam chart timings because they time from exactly when the music starts to exactly when the music ends. I'm sorry.

[RJ]

No, it's okay. So they have a jam chart entry up already for the sand.

[Megan]

They have a time. I don't think they put the jam. I don't know if they have it on the 20 minute jam chart. It's on the 20 minute jam chart.

[RJ]

I'll make sure that it's 40, but.

[Brian]

Should be on the 30.

[RJ]

This gets wrapped up, you know, you guys forgot I have a login. I have a login.

[Brian]

So it doesn't start till 19 seconds into the actual track. And by that point you're at 39.42.

[Megan]

So I don't know what to tell you, RJ. That'd be so funny.

[RJ]

Well, we need. That's why we need to change every goose closer for the past six years to get the audience nice. All right, go ahead.

[Brian]

My point is just that, like, one thing that makes that. That show so spectacular is that the sand is not the only idea. And then a bunch of random songs to what you guys are both saying, the rest of the set flows. And that is a really mysterious and magical thing with this band. We argued about this in top 25 tours. Why is fall 97 so revered? And why should it potentially be the number one tour of all time? You can cherry pick full sets that you press play and you do not let up until the set is over. And that is. That is even as the band has refined, as they have grown and reinvented who they are and messed around with new sounds and certain songs get jammed out that you're like, what? I never even knew that was possible. Like Even as we're in such a great period for Fish, I think it is still really challenging to play 85 to 90 minutes of pretty much perfect music. Like, why do you not see a lot of notes? Why do you, like, you know, like, why does your baseball team still lose 75 games and still be a pretty good team? You know, like, so true. This is. This is really, like, mystical stuff that they are playing around with. And when it works, holy crap, it works. And oftentimes it's just really hard that after you play like an hour of great music, you kind of just want to, like, play three songs and get off the stage.

[Lawrence]

This is Lawrence Lanahan, journalist, musician, and host of Rearranged, an Osiris Media podcast about music arranging. Once a song is written, arrangers make musical decisions that shape how we end up hearing the song. We're not just talking about adding orchestral accompaniment like horns and strings, or doing a cover version of a song. Arrangement can be putting happy music over dark lyrics, using samples, recording all accompanying acoustic. Even tiny decisions like putting an electronic loop into an acoustic song to draw your attention to an important turn of phrase. It's all arranging. Rearranged Episodes are documentary essays where I use arrangements to answer some big questions, like, what is a song and what can a song become? And how can the skill sound of a song change the meaning you take from it? Listening this way has changed my relationship with music. Tune in to Rearranged and maybe it'll happen for you, too. Learn [e-mail].

[Megan]

Osiris.

[Brian]

Yeah, you're still on the clock. Like, I still have expectations for you guys. You know, like, we're still, we're still going to talk about this in their performance review, but, like, at the end of the day, like, they are human.

[Megan]

But I think it's important to say, and I like that you're mentioning that it is mystical because it is something that's like, you know, it is an art and they're doing it live. And I think that it is elite what we're asking them to do and what we expect from them, because they do it more often than anyone else and it's incredible. And when they hit it, like man Night one, they do, and you just got to hope that you didn't skip, skip that one and you're going the next day, you know, that's all you gotta hope for.

[RJ]

I mean, we will talk about this on our full summer recap, but I think probably 20% of the shows will have, like, a final 30 minutes that's really strong. And I guess if that's the trade off, like, that's fine.

[Megan]

Yeah, that seems fair. I mean, we're not allowed to talk.

[Brian]

About last night, but, like, I do think last night wrapped up in a very nice way. That. That is a. Like. Yeah, I know people have opinions about a life beyond the dream. I know I've expressed opinions about a life beyond the dream. I thought it worked really nicely in that spot. Trey earned a really emotive ballad. And then to play that Harry Hood after that, like, walk off the stage, dude, you did your job. Nothing else.

[Megan]

It could have gone either way. Like, out of Life beyond the Dream, it could have gone to the Howling, where it could have gone to hood. And it went to hood. And it was just like, yes, Trey. And then you got a five song second set with great flow and an hour of power. So. Yeah.

[RJ]

And you got your possum in the middle of the first set, so you didn't have to.

[Megan]

Just got it done with.

[RJ]

Slowly Exit the man during possum.

[Megan]

All right, that was the guy next to me who's like, that's fine. Let's get it over with now. Let's get it over with now. I just turned over and high fived him. I was like, that's right.

[RJ]

Okay, Brian, what do you got in.

[Brian]

Terms of, like, large scale themes?

[RJ]

Yeah, questions, themes. I got more. I'll keep going, but I want. I want to give you a chance.

[Brian]

All right. One thing that you brought up that I would like to add to.

[RJ]

This is how I like for it to go bring up the things that I said. Great.

[Brian]

So we've talked about this and, like, there's like, an ephemeral nature to jams that continue versus jams that conclude. And it's long been a debate, and we're at a point right now, as we know in fish history. I don't know why I have to qualify this stuff for the haters out there, but, like, we're at a point in fish history where it's awesome. And every single one of these shows, like, I could not tell you a single show on this tour other than maybe Boulder Night 1 and Man Night 2, which we'll get into. But even Man Night 2 had excellent moments that, like, doesn't have a, like, tent pole jam. Like, it's a very rare period to be in. But that said, like, with that, we get a lot of really good ideas that emerge in jams that then just kind of fall off versus jams that continue. And we see the Full picture of what the band was kind of going for in that moment. And so I was thinking about two examples here. Number one is the sand from night one versus the wave of hope specifically. But also I think you could throw in the simple from night two and then from Chicago night one, the what's going through your mind versus the song I heard the Ocean single the following night on that Saturday. And I guess my bigger question is like in your guys estimation, listening through these jams, what ultimately made them lock onto a theme in the sand and the what's going through your mind and see that through to a resolution. And then another segment versus Wave of Hope and simple and a song I heard the ocean sing, which all presented really, really fascinating ideas. But I would argue didn't you don't get like the full complete jam journey that you got on the sand and what's going through your mind. And that's not to say that those jams aren't great. Like I love parts of what. I love that what's Wave of Hope. I love the song I heard the ocean sing from Chicago. But I think in both cases those are jams that like, if the band is continuing to explore initial ideas that they have put on the table, like we're having a very different conversation here about those shows than we were. Than we are. So I'm curious your thoughts. Like why do some of those jams work and other jams, they just seem to abandon and move on.

[RJ]

Well, I have a thought that's quick and simple, which is that I think Trey. I think it's all about whether Trey keeps pushing it forward or not. Because I think in the what's going through your mind you have like almost like 18 minutes in or 20 minutes in. It's almost like a use sexy thing, like kind of jam there. But Trey and Mike are kind of driving it together with Paige on piano. And it's like it leads directly into this, into this peak. But when you take like the simple from the man, Mike is really driving the jam in the middle of that simple, which is really awesome. But it's like kind of like feels like once that jam went kind of into this like dark groove, Mike was like kind of the one driving it and Trey was like kind of hanging back. And then I feel like Trey eventually kind of gets bored with it if he's not like out front. And I don't think he's like selfish about it. It just feels like when he kind of like in the sand, he was, he was just. He was on Top of it the entire time, you know? So, like, I don't know. I mean, it's. Maybe that's too simplistic, but that's like, listening to it. That's kind of what I hear. But, Megan, I don't know if you. What you heard from those night two jams that you thought was different from listening Back to the sand or any of the Chicago stuff.

[Megan]

Yeah, I really like that. That's really helpful to hear, because I agree. I think it completely just depends with Trey and if he's feeling patient and exploratory or if he hears something that reminds him of something else that he wants to play. Also, I think, you know, when you're in a jam and you latch onto something. Listen, I've never jammed. I don't know what it's like, but I do know what it's like as an actor to be on stage. And acting is a little different because you do the same thing every night. But there's this weird thing that happens in that you might catch someone's eye in a different way, or you might get a different feeling from the way someone delivers a line to you, or you might bring in a bunch of your own feelings from that day that you can't push aside. And it affects your delivery and it affects your energy. And so something shifts, and it sends what you're doing to a different place that you didn't expect to go. And it's. And you be. You just ride that wave. And I think that's very similar to improvisationally playing music. And I think that for Trey, there's probably times when he's just in that flow state that is really open and exploratory. And maybe that does come from what you're saying, rj. Musically, that's really interesting for me to think about that. I'm going to be listening for that now. But I think that it is a matter of if you are open to the muse in that sense, or, like, feeling that, or if you are just. You hear something and you're like, oh, that reminds me of that song. I'm gonna play that song. Or, I don't like this train of thought right now. I don't like this. This where we're at in this place. And, yeah, I'm just gonna go somewhere else. Like, to me, what's interesting is when he ripcords jams, because I understand when jams kind of peter out and you feel like they're not going anywhere. But there have been multiple jams on this tour, and I really Think that Wave of Hope is a good example that felt like they were going somewhere. And that's what's confusing to me is like, why, when you sounded really locked in, and maybe just the band is so good at getting locked in, that even if Trey's not feeling it, he can do it. I don't know. But it's interesting for me to think about that because when a jam kind of simmers, it makes sense that sometimes it goes somewhere else. I'm always hoping sometimes stay in that quiet. I feel like this tour especially, we have not been spending a lot of time in those quiet spaces. There haven't been a lot of ambient jamming, not a lot of post peak jamming. It's much more groove based, much more energetic, much more build to a peak. But I think that, that, that quiet space, I can understand why you decide to think of a new idea then, but it is weird to me when they're super locked in on a groove or that Wave of Hope jam had a lot of ideas. I thought it was really intriguing. And then it just. He just changes his mind. So I think it's really probably a combination of all those things. It just must be such an. It's such an interesting art form to do, playing music improvisationally. It's just something that I think I would love to talk more to people that do it because it's pretty interesting and I think it does connect a lot to how Trey's feeling.

[Brian]

Yeah, I mean, it's my eternal dream podcast and I think it would make millions and millions of dollars. Is just Trey listening to old Fish Jim's and talking through his reflections on it and why this decision might have been made or not, and his memories and all that. I think what you say about, like, because the acting versus, like the comedic improv comp is similar to like a studio band that really perfects their albums versus a band like Fish that like, they basically get one shot to make something work. And sometimes that works and you get the sand, you get the what's going through your mind. And other times I think something you said that was really enlightening was like, maybe they play something and it brings up a bad memory and in that moment he wants to get away from that or he plays something but doesn't hear Fishmen respond to it immediately. Like, I almost think that they have very high standards right now for jamming. And I think a lot of that speaks to the stylistic change of this year versus last year, where last year a lot of experimental noise and post peak Jamming and kind of abstract type of playing was kind of what they were focused on. And within that, you don't have to play in a very precise manner. And you can kind of just let something stretch out until you find something. And it seems also, it seems almost this year to me that he has to know that an idea is going to work over like a five, six minute period in time to give it any thought. And if he doesn't feel that way, he moves on to something else. And then if that doesn't work, he moves on to something else. And it's like, okay, why don't we just go to a different song at this point in time and see if that will work? I don't know. It's similar to the full set flow thing that, like, I don't think we'll ever get, like, a full answer. It's the endless speculation of, like, why did this idea that. Because I agree with you. The Wave of Hope. I thought from Man Night two, there was a time where it felt like, this is set up to be your 25, 30 minute long jam. To me, they found it. It's here, and it's Wave of Hope. It's a song that makes complete sense for them to do this in. And then when they just left it, it was like, well, okay, what happened there that, like, threw you guys off, that, like, now we're suddenly in mercy land, you know, 40 minutes in the set. Like, what. What went wrong? Where do we take this wrong turn? And I don't know, it's. I. I will. I will forever wonder why this.

[RJ]

Yeah, you know, there's a part in the sand from the man which, you know, again, can't really talk enough about that. But it's around, like, 26 minutes. There's this peak around, like, 21, 22, 23. And it's. There's this part around 26 when you can tell that they're just kind of like hanging there, that everyone has, like, the effects kind of swirling. But then like around 28 minutes. So about two minutes there, it's sort of like it could dissolve into something. It could stop. It could do any number of things. And then Trey kind of finds a riff in that kind of space jam and then brings it out into another peak, like around 30 minutes. So, like, to me, that's an example of where he could have just been like, all right, I'm gonna, like, we're gonna go into joy or something, you know, and he just. He, like, pushed them through that into. And I think, like, The Down With Disease from. Where was that from? Along Down With Disease from Charleston. Charleston, like, that had a similar thing where he kind of like, he was like, guiding the. Guiding people, guiding out of the. Out of those, like, dark, spacey areas. So I don't know well to that.

[Brian]

And Ed made this comment. He said, I think it's partly the guitar. I think he doesn't want to use effects as much, though he still does. Often there still are effects, but it's a good point. And the sand and the Down With Z's you reference are very much in the sense that those are lyrical jams. What's going through your mind from Chicago? The sand is kind of wild because I remember I was listening to it and I looked at my watch and was like, oh, my God, we're about to hit 20 minutes. I didn't even think they were just like, in this kind of zone where it didn't feel like they were working that like that 20 minutes before that first peak. You reference goes by so quickly. Like, there's not even. It's not even the most stunning music you'll ever hear. It's just like, really pleasant, like, type two, jamming in a blissful space that, like, I think he just didn't want to leave. And why would you. It's really nice space to jam in.

[RJ]

Yeah.

[Megan]

So good. That double peak in that sand is crazy. It's so good. But I would say that Karini, last night. I know we're not talking about that, but we were talking about that a little bit. Now we are live. It just. It has that kind of melodic, hypnotic groove that they're finding, and it's. It's really nice.

[RJ]

So I don't want to, like, you know, get all political here, but one of the questions I have. So I don't. I'm not sure that I've been. And it shouldn't be for mayor. It shouldn't be.

[Megan]

Do you have something you want to tell us, rj?

[RJ]

Oh, yeah. That would be mayor of Marion station, which is basically.

[Megan]

You already are the mayor of that street, rj. Let's do it.

[RJ]

That's a very good point. Even Mark. Even Mark agrees. Okay. So one thing I was thinking about. Okay, I don't. I might have been hotter at a fish show that I can remember, but these two nights at the man were God among the hottest, like, outdoor concerts I've ever been to.

[Megan]

I mean, the man is a hotter than Raleigh 2023.

[RJ]

It felt like it to me. I don't know. I mean, that Was pretty hot. This felt like it was so stifling and humid on top of it being so bad.

[Megan]

It was so bad, the heat.

[RJ]

And like, I guess what I'm wondering is, you know, we got four out of the six venues on this tour. At least the second half after Folsom, I think were are all indoors, right? So we're getting more like, we're getting more indoor runs of this tour. I think maybe the majority of the shows are indoors. Yeah, like 100, you know.

[Megan]

Yeah.

[RJ]

You guys love, like, of course. Forest Hills is awesome. Spack is great. I mean, you know, the man is awesome. Folsom. I know, Brian, you had some of the best shows you've ever seen. So, like, I don't want to take that. Take that away. But as this gets. As the world gets hotter, are we just gonna see more indoor shows? Like, at some point in the next five years? Especially with fish, you know, getting older and like, fans getting older, like, are we just going to see more indoor shows? Like, will we see a summer tour where it's just all indoor shows? And that doesn't go just for fish. It could go for any band. Like, are we just going to have indoor shows during the summer at some point because it's just too fucking hot.

[Megan]

I mean, if Trey wants to keep wearing jackets, probably. I mean, he has to wear a jacket every night. So, like, he was wearing a jacket at man night both nights of the man. I don't actually know how that's possible.

[Brian]

How powerful are those fans?

[Megan]

And they can't be that good. Like, it was 100 degrees and 1,000% humidity, and he was literally wearing a jacket over a T shirt. It's so confusing. I am just like, we have a.

[Brian]

Pretty powerful outdoor fan on our patio because we're. Our backyard is west facing and the sun. I don't know if you guys notice, but we're a mile up. So the sun's really powerful here. And we, like, have that fan on us. And I'm still warm. Like, I'm not in jacket weather. I'm like, now I'm not laying and.

[Megan]

You'Re laying like a three hour show. It doesn't understand, but I actually think that, like, luckily last night at Forest Hills, the weather was just so unbelievable. But I totally think that some of the hardest shows I've seen, Mondegreen night, day four. You know, these are all affected by weather and heat, and it's hard. And I do think that as they're getting older, maybe it's a better idea. I mean, These indoor summer shows, like, it's just such a sigh of relief when you know you're going to be indoors. When the band knows they're going to be indoors and they've been throwing down. And I think everything for them is, you know, they're, they're so good at indoor. I mean indoor fish is just. But it's amazing. I don't know when you have a night like last night in Forest Hills when the weather's absolutely perfect, like it's going to be again tonight, it's. It's tough to beat it too. But yeah, yeah, it's interesting.

[RJ]

Yeah. Jason Silberman who's in the chat mentioned like not just because of the heat, but also thunderstorms and concert promoters for liability insurance reasons. I mean, you know, just, just shows getting delayed and like canceled because of weather. I saw Paul Hoffman from Green sky posted about like a five show run. They just did. I think one of the shows was delayed and one of the shows was canceled out of five because of weather. And then he was just talking about how awesome it was. But I noted that like it's like out of five shows you might have one canceled in the summer just because like weather is insane. But maybe they just go to Antarctica or Alaska and that's, that's where we go.

[Brian]

I mean, I did suggest in the last episode a tour of Canadian cities. I think that there's be a little bit cooler up there.

[RJ]

Yeah, for California.

[Brian]

Let's go to California during this time of year. I mean they do like California in the springtime. But I'm right there with you. I'll take California fish anytime. It's interesting that like they've played new venues this tour that are kind of out of the way and have been indoors and, and I don't think it's taken away from the tours. Like Austin had one of my favorite jams of the overall year. Columbus had two fantastic, three fantastic jams across the entire show. Charleston was a really great run. Like, I don't think it's making Pittsburgh has a big. What's going through your mind? I don't think that the indoor outdoor thing is messing with them. I think that there are a few venues that like as fans we'd like to see them return to from an outdoor standpoint. But I mean, coming from Colorado, three of the last four years have had either rain delays or weather delays, like, you know, pretty significant issues that have affected the overall runs. There's a stadium in downtown Denver that they could play in that would not Be as, you know, aesthetically pleasing as the outdoor venues, but you would not have to deal with this level of delay inconsistency. Like, you just. You take out a lot of questions. The other. The other thought, why aren't they playing more spring and fall runs and less of a summer run? But, yeah.

[RJ]

Can we talk quickly about just, like, time management at these shows? Because I. Megan, I. We talked about this briefly, but I think the man night to. One of the challenges was that. So the first set was 90 minutes, which I was like, I couldn't believe it kept going. And I feel like they, you know, like, Fluff Head was a great call. The gumbo. They got into a great groove. It was probably the best rogue ever played.

[Megan]

Yeah, I got a lot of texts about that. I still don't like the song despite everyone and their mom texting me that, like, did this rogue change you? No, sorry. It was beautiful. Very dramatic moment in the jam. I like that, but it didn't win me over. Sorry.

[RJ]

It's okay. No, we needed to hear that. People have been waiting to hear what you thought about that and whether you changed your mind, so thank you for addressing that. But I feel like they never really got into the groove there of anything. The split up and melt was, like, appropriately weird, but it was, you know, 90 minutes set, short set break. And then I think that made it made the second set seem a little more rushed, even though it was also 90 minutes with the. And then, you know, long encore. But it felt to me like having, like, it was almost like the first set was too long, and then it took away from the second set, even though they were the same length, like, it felt like the energy in the second set just like, first of all, opening that set with curtain with. Which is the first time I'd heard that in seven years, and I. It's. So that was one of my highlights of the show for me.

[Megan]

But definitely that's a good. It started off great, that set.

[RJ]

Yeah. And then the, like, just sort of with those jams, it just felt like, you know, first of all, the calls got super confusing. The 20 years later, I was, like, so baffled by that. That just seemed so strange to me. But do you guys think that that has anything to do with it, or is that just, like. Is that just how it works? I haven't looked at the timing of all the shows, but it felt to me like something like, got a little messed up with the timing of that show.

[Megan]

It does feel interesting that they're playing longer sets, that they're going towards 90 as opposed to 75. I feel like they're playing 75 really consistently for a few years and now they're doing pushing towards 90, which is fine. But I think when you have a set that feels disjointed, it ends up feeling like, why? Like, I thought they should have ended that set after Julius. I thought like, Julius is a great set closer. Like, just energetic. Like, you know, I actually started to take my daughter to like, go get food in the bathroom because I figured we were about done during the end of Julius and then split open and Matt happened. But yeah, I don't know if that affects like the second set vibe. The second set to me started out beautifully. I love the curtain with. It's my first time I've ever heard it together because I've only heard it split up at Mohegan last year and it was. It's just one of my favorite things to hear. And then a Wave of Hope and then that jam got kicked off and I thought we were really going to like, cook for the second set. But then, yeah, the. The calls of mercy there. And then when the simple got cut off and went to Ether edge and the rest of the set, I think that set just like lost its way and it just never found it again. I don't know how much it has to do with timing. To me it was more just bad calls and not sticking with the jam. I think, like we've talked about Wave of Hope and Simple Both had really great places to go and were really fun. And I mean, simple, the crowd, you know, I actually didn't mind the macarina thought it was really fun. Daughter loving it. Everybody was just like having a great time. I thought the jam before sounded great. I was surprised that they cut both of those jams off. But yeah, just really unfortunate celesting there, the end of that set.

[RJ]

My God, thank you for that input. I don't know if there's more to say. I will say just Brian, just to add more data to my point. So The Man Knight 2, both sets were 10 minutes longer than both sets from man night one, which is just sort of like. So you got like an extra 20 minutes total in the show. And then the shows were just so different. So maybe it's just, you know, coincidental.

[Megan]

Maybe they're reaching, you know, like they're trying to find something. What do you think?

[Brian]

Do you know how long the second set from 12697 was?

[RJ]

Yeah, it was there. It was not. It was not very long.

[Brian]

It's like an hour. It's like 61 minutes. A lot of fall 97 sets. I love that Through Life Ish. The Life Fish app posts the timing of each set. It's just another added stat that I'm really interested in. And if you go through fall 97 sets that are available, most of them are right around 60 to 70 minutes. I think this kind of gets into like. Like I think the perfect.

[RJ]

They did have a party to get back to though.

[Brian]

That's true. There's a lot more.

[Megan]

They were like interested in leaving the stage. Now Trey just wants to. Which.

[Brian]

Which you got like by like 99, 2000. You have a lot of shows where it's like literally like 58 minutes for a set. Like they. They were in and out, you know. So I think, yeah, that those were distraction periods. I think now they're kind of like. It's deeply impressive that they can play two 90 minute sets back to back and have as many highlights. But I do think there is a strange like Less is More thing. Like a 90 minute movie that has another 20 minutes of context building around it ends up feeling a little bit too long. A 38 minute perfect album that has two extra songs and now we're at 45 to 50 minutes. Or if you're goose, like an hour and 19 minutes. For some reason like there Less is more sometimes. And this is not to say they shouldn't give us more music, but I think you're right. Like you do have chances where I don't think a lot can save these Man Night 2 sets, but maybe some shuffling, removing a couple songs here and there, making it a little bit more tight and focused would have allowed some more breathing room. I do think that this gets back to your weather conversation, rj and this fact that like just speaking from, you know, Boulder, you had both the community asking for the band to adjust their schedule and then the weather plus the community on night three. That sort of stuff has to get in your head. And if you walk on, if you're. If you're playing an indoor show. We've booked the show. This is curfew, this is ticket time. And then they just have to play within the confines of that. And there's no question of if the show's going to happen, how long. Like it's never in the back of their mind that they have to cut this off. So let's come out of this jam so we can play one more song and give people something energetic to go home with. Which then turns into two more songs and three More songs like that aspect doesn't really impact them because they just know we're walking on stage at 8, we're coming off stage at 9, 20, we're walking on stage at 1050, we're walking off stage at 11, 10 and then we're playing the encore. Like they just, they know how that works.

[RJ]

Okay, well we. We've talked about the man quite a bit. We haven't talked a ton about Chicago. We are going to keep it somewhat short today, but Brian or Megan. Megan, why don't you go first. What do you think people need to listen to from Chicago?

[Megan]

From Chicago. I mean my highlights were what's going through your mind from night one? Obviously just. I mean this jam is great. It's multi sectioned. You've got the like Hendrix inspired playing in there. It's like gnarly and dark. It's got that like scenery chewing, stomping section. And I think the segue into Cross side too is just like this to me is like. That's great. Set listing. No men's. What's going through your mind? Cross Eyed is like perfect for me. I just, I feel like whenever they're finish a jam and they decide to play Cross Eyed, I think they're in a good spot. That to me makes me really happy.

[RJ]

Yeah.

[Brian]

Do you want me to set? Cross side move is just like they perfected that these last couple of years. It's something, right?

[Megan]

It's so good. It's like. Yes, do that instead of other things.

[RJ]

Keep going, keep going.

[Megan]

Okay. Okay. I think night two Life Saving Gun is just killer. Like.

[RJ]

Yeah.

[Megan]

Opening up a show like this, I. Yes, yes.

[RJ]

It's pretty intense too. It like gets really.

[Megan]

It has like. They're playing the Life Saving Gun riff but like super sped up and Mike is just keeping this like this sick baseline. And to me it's a pretty perfect like 1 point type 1.5 jam where it's like it's slightly outside of the box of Life Saving Gun but kind of inside of it. It's just. I think you open up the show with like over 13 minute jam. I think that was just, just really cool.

[RJ]

Really cool. I love that jam.

[Megan]

I love that jam. It's really good. And I think set two, you've got this section tube ashidos and down with disease. Like that to me is just like, like this is like great stuff. I think.

[RJ]

Never heard of Cheetos before. Good for you. So you just coined a new acronym. Congratulations.

[Megan]

Maybe it's because I like Cheetos.

[RJ]

I Like it.

[Megan]

Yeah, the tube. Just. First of all, I think it's really interesting how they've been doing this kind of. I mean this is like what we've been talking about a little bit. But this hour of power where the first hour of the second set, I think Chicago Night two, Chicago Night three and last night they all had that. And it's interesting. It seems like they kind of hit a point where that's kind of like where they've landed where it's best. But I really love a song I Heard the Ocean singing. Down With Disease is just that like hypnotic groove jamming that I think they're just doing so well right now. And it's really, really beautiful. And I love that a song I Heard the Ocean sing is that huge, like lush peak. So great.

[RJ]

Yeah, I just. I just listened to Chicago Night 3 this morning, so I'm very behind the. I thought that Night three, like the set two of Night three was really, really strong. Like they're. And again like this little bit uneven in parts, but I don't know that to me, like the. The gada Jabu with like the siren, you know, siren looping and Mike's baseline. That's just such a great way to start. Um, but then like that, you know, the super kind of effects, heavy sense intro and throughout.

[Megan]

I love that one. It has like a creepy intro. It sounds like a Ray Bradbury, like something wicked this way comes. It has like a carnival creepy sound to it. It's so good. And that jam is one of my favorite jams. It's so shimmery, the synths there. So pretty.

[RJ]

Yeah, it's really awesome. And I think the twist is like that jam is like one of the most beautiful segments of a of the tour. That's just like really, really awesome what they get into there.

[Megan]

Yeah, it's so emotional. Trey just sounds so emotional in there. Yeah, really pretty.

[RJ]

Brian, do you have a list for us?

[Brian]

I mean, I think you guys nailed it. I will just say I was very happy to hear the 259 show bust out of the line. I know that I'm probably the only person in that corner. I thought it was a perfect venue to play the Line for the first time.

[Megan]

That was cool.

[Brian]

I thought nights two and three were kind of like two sides of the same coin. You had these rarity heavy first sets that were pretty song based but had some like, you know, minor improv within them. So it's kind of like take your pick of. Which songs do you like? I really like all the Songs that were played on Saturday, so that that one really worked for me. Set two, we talked about this, and this is the first set of the tour that every single one of these songs made my larger jam list that I work through, because every one of these songs, it flows really nicely. They all have, like, a little bit extra. Even the pillow jets in 2001 and chalk dust, they have just a little bit extra that you want to go back and listen to what's happening. Definitely agree with you guys. From the Power Hour standpoint, in that overall set, ending with my. While my guitar gently weeps into first tube was just like a very choice moment. The deep cut Beatles songs keep them coming and then definitely agree with you guys. The Sense and Twist from Night three was my absolute highlight from a personal standpoint. It was total joy. One of my best friends from high school went on Saturday for his third fish show, his first since the summer of 2012, and he loved it so much that he went back for night three, and we were just, like, texting throughout the show because they were playing some songs he had never heard before. And I was giving a little bit of context. And then the Sense happened, and he was like, oh, my God, I have not heard this since we used to smoke pot in your high school car. When we would drive to our favorite diner, he was like, this, like, takes me so far back. And then that jam happened, and he was just like, oh, I had no idea this band could do this with this song. And it was. It was just a very cool moment for me personally, but good stuff.

[Megan]

That's amazing. Winning back the old fans.

[RJ]

Yeah.

[Megan]

One sense at a time.

[RJ]

It's not easy, I think. I don't think we talked about this specifically, but this first set of Chicago Night one, just the. On your way down, true bust out of 500 plus shows, which was. Which was really cool. And I really. I like the space lasers. Hey, stranger. Like, I'm down for it anytime. I think it's awesome. I think, like, they use the effects well, so it's like, not just. I don't know. To me, it makes the song more interesting. I did think when they, like, did the tequila jam and the bathtub gin, I was like, all right, are we doing this now? We're just, like, doing. We're doing, like, samples in the jams.

[Megan]

Yeah, baby.

[Brian]

Yeah. Like the. The Macarena the night before. Yeah.

[RJ]

They used to remember when they teased tequila like, in every jam for, like, a year. Was that like 93?

[Megan]

What year was that?

[RJ]

Yeah, 92 or 93.

[Brian]

Some of those 93 jams are like OTS. And then we'll mess around with it.

[Megan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Brian]

Can I.

[RJ]

What else you guys got?

[Brian]

I got one more thing.

[RJ]

Yeah, I believe it. I can't believe it.

[Brian]

I came with two and I got one more.

[RJ]

Okay, this is getting crazy.

[Brian]

So you met. You referenced the on your way down 522 show bust out. We've talked about injecting this tour with a lot of bust outs I went through over the last couple days. The songs with between a 100 and 500 show bust out that I think we are not allowed to talk about. Forest Hills Night one. But just so you all know, it did happen. So the next four shows, we've got one more night of Forest Hills and three nights at Spock. I think that these following songs are on the table and some of them, I'm really shocked by the numbers. Okay. Frankie says please. This is at a 100 show limit at this point. The last time it was played was 7:30, 2023.

[Megan]

Please.

[Brian]

Some of these are going to shock you because they don't seem like crazy bust outs. Hold your head up. Is that a 101 show bust out? 7 29, 2000, 2023.

[RJ]

Really?

[Brian]

Yes. Makasupa policeman is at a 114 show bust out. Last played 7, 11, 20, 23.

[RJ]

Wow. Wow. Okay.

[Brian]

Wombat is at 138 shows. Dog face boy is at 180 shows. Brother is at 191 shows. And Hahaha is at 199 shows.

[RJ]

All right. Yeah, those all seem possible.

[Brian]

Those all seem possible. They seem on the table, but those are pretty big bust outs. These last four are kind of wild to me because these are significantly rare. Well, three of these four are very rare. One of them, I was shocked by how long it's been since it was played.

[RJ]

Played.

[Brian]

Curtis Lowe last played Dec. 30, 2019, which was 247 shows ago.

[Megan]

I'm calling for this all tour like we need it.

[Brian]

Kong.

[RJ]

It's true.

[Brian]

Was last played on 1130, 2019, 256 shows ago.

[Megan]

What do I need to do to get a Kong? Come on. Never had one.

[RJ]

Stop talking shit about the band on the podcast.

[Megan]

I know. They're so mad at me. Yeah, I know.

[Brian]

Admit that you saw the show of the year last year and get over your Mondegreen Night four crap. Okay? That that would win them.

[Megan]

You really think Mondegreen Night one is better than the Mexico that you talked.

[Brian]

As a complete show? I do. Yeah. I think it was the show of the year. I've said this multiple times on this very podcast. Two more. Okay. I know that we have. I know we have to go.

[RJ]

Two more. We have to go because we, all.

[Brian]

Of us have a scheduling conflict at. At 12 o'. Clock. All of us. Two more. Uncle Penn. 8, 5, 17, 338. Show busts out.

[Megan]

Dang, that's a long.

[RJ]

It's coming tonight.

[Megan]

Wow.

[Brian]

Isn't that crazy, Uncle Pen? You would think that was played like 50 shows ago. And then the last one, this is a bit more of a rarity, a little bit of a stretch. And I was trying to focus on songs that have had more than 10 performances. So not something that's like, you know, we played it twice and then, you know, ride, Captain Ride. Guess the last time this song was played.

[RJ]

2018.

[Megan]

Long time, long time.

[RJ]

Somewhere in California. 2016.

[Brian]

Exact opposite part of the country.

[Megan]

Good, good.

[RJ]

It's about the San Francisco Bay. Come on.

[Brian]

I know it is. They played it on 8, 19, 12. Because of that. 10, 26, 13 from Worcester, Mass. Also, the last time they played the Worcester Centrum, which they need to go back to, which was 489 shows ago.

[RJ]

Dang, my Lord.

[Brian]

So all those songs, I don't think that they would blow people's minds if they played like if someone sees them do hyhu. I don't think it's going to cross someone's mind in that moment that they haven't played it in 100 plus shows. But it is pretty crazy that these songs have just kind of been cast aside.

[Megan]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's interesting.

[RJ]

So, okay, that is a great place to end because we have in perfect. Speller wants to know how does Brian have all the time to do this research and still be prepping for the My Soul Russell Rushmore show. Thank you all you guys in the chat. Okay, everyone, have a great night. Two at at Forest Hills and a great night. One, two and three at Spack. That's a lot of shows. Good luck, everybody. We're going to come back on Monday at some point. Tbd, I think. Jam demand, you cowards. See you guys next week.

[Megan]

Bye, everyone.

[Brian]

Sam.

[Megan]

Osiris.