2/15/91 — Keene, NH

Summary

Helping Friendly Podcast Episode Summary: "2/15/91 — Keene, NH"

Release Date: February 1, 2025
Hosts: Megan, Brian, and RJ
Episode Focus: A comprehensive analysis of Phish’s February 15, 1991, concert in Keene, New Hampshire, alongside discussions on personal memories, new projects, and listener interactions.

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1. Reflecting on Personal Memories and Listener Feedback (02:02 - 08:14)

The episode kicks off with the hosts reminiscing about past Phish concerts during their college years. Megan and RJ share their regrets about not attending more shows while in college, a sentiment echoed by listener Beth from Chicago.

• Beth’s Story [07:15]:
  “I was just, I don't know, sitting on campus, just not at the show. So I totally feel that many regrets.” – Beth

Brian adds his own memory from March 16th, recounting an encounter at a dive bar with his six-month-old son, highlighting the personal connections fans have with Phish concerts.

• Brian on Personal Growth [04:49]:
  “But I do want to agree with him. I think that RJ was a little bit off with the worst New Year's Eve show the last 20 years.” – Brian

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2. Announcing the “Mount Rushmore of Fish Songs” Project (12:08 - 15:54)

The hosts unveil an exciting new project aimed at identifying the top four versions of iconic Phish songs, inviting listener participation.

• Megan on the Project [12:15]:
  “We have compiled a list of songs that we want to dive deep into, and we're going to actually require a lot of listener help because we want to hear from you.” – Megan

They initiate the project with "Bathtub Gin," encouraging listeners to submit their top four versions via a Google form on their website.

• RJ on Listener Engagement [12:53]:
  “We are going to take your lists, we're going to look at them, and then we're going to choose our own. But, you know, it'll be interesting to see how yours compares with our list.” – RJ

Brian humorously suggests Megan might "wear a beret" during the series, adding a light-hearted tone to the announcement.

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3. In-Depth Analysis of the 2/15/91 Keene, NH Show (16:17 - 58:39)

The core of the episode delves into the February 15, 1991, Phish concert in Keene, NH, examining the band's performance, song selection, and the historical context of the tour.

• Megan on the Tour's Significance [17:55]:
  “This is such a huge, huge year for the Fish. You know, this is the year they started recording every show too.” – Megan

Touring in 1991:
Phish was in a prolific touring phase, performing approximately 133 shows that year. They often revisited the same venues, including Keene, NH, which hosted seven shows over two years. This strategy aimed to build a dedicated fanbase in key locations before expanding to larger markets in subsequent years.

• Brian on Touring Strategy [20:08]:
  “They make such a dramatic shift coming out of 88, where the goal seems to be let's get to every market around the country.” – Brian

Performance Highlights:
The hosts analyze specific performances from the Keene show, highlighting songs like "Split Open and Melt," "Hood," and "Divided Sky."

• Megan on "Split Open and Melt" [29:09]:
  “There's a two-minute period of Split open and melt where it, like, kind of sounds like it could become something that's not related to the song.” – Megan

Musical Evolution:
They discuss how songs performed during this period showed early signs of Phish's evolving improvisational style, foreshadowing future developments in their music. The interplay between structured compositions and spontaneous jams is emphasized as a defining characteristic of the band's live performances.

• Brian on Musical Dynamics [35:14]:
  “There's a riffing that's so fast and so creative and so emotional.” – Brian

Song Analysis:
Detailed discussions about "Hood" reveal how Trey's aggressive playing and experimental riffs contributed to the song's emotional depth, hinting at the band's future direction in ballad writing and more profound emotional expression.

• Megan on "Hood" [47:14]:
  “They have huge peaks at the end of this hood, and they do some really amazing, like, swirling and crescendoing riffs at the end.” – Megan

Set Structure and Audience Interaction:
The hosts commend the flow and momentum of the concert, noting the seamless transitions between songs and the band's tight performance. They also reflect on the fan atmosphere and the significance of the Keene venue in shaping Phish's live reputation.

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4. Listener Voicemails and Future Projects (58:33 - 72:20)

The podcast transitions to engaging with listeners through voicemails, featuring suggestions and feedback that inspire future content.

• Listener Suggestion [64:27]:
  Brendan McLean from Marshfield, VT, proposes an “album draft” series, pairing deep dives into Phish’s albums with their ongoing draft project. The hosts enthusiastically agree, incorporating this idea into their upcoming schedule.

Upcoming Content:
The hosts announce plans to continue their in-depth analyses with the Mount Rushmore series, beginning with "Bathtub Gin" and moving on to other iconic songs like "Choctaw's Torture." They also hint at a dedicated album draft series, promising thorough discussions and competitive drafts between the hosts.

• Brian on Album Draft [66:32]:
  “We are going to do this in a slightly different format. We are not assigning albums at the start, but all albums are essentially qualified for any section.” – Brian

Future Episodes:
Plans are revealed for subsequent episodes focusing on Mexico 2025, a Mexico 2019 recap with guest Ryan Storm, and a lively conversation about "Clara and the Sun."

• RJ on Future Shows [69:08]:
  “We're going to be back next Wednesday with a Mexico recap of all four Mexico shows and then we're going to be back the following Wednesday with this very draft.” – RJ

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5. Closing Remarks and Final Announcements (72:20 - End)

The episode concludes with light-hearted banter among the hosts, teasing future collaborations and maintaining their signature humorous tone. They express gratitude to listeners and encourage continued engagement through upcoming projects and episodes.

• Megan on Future Content [70:35]:
  “Once again, thanks a lot for all your work. Really enjoying the program lately.” – Brendan McLean (Listener)

• RJ on Episode Wrap-Up [72:20]:
  “Thank you for listening. Thanks, Megan. Thanks, Brian.” – RJ

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Key Takeaways

• Personal Connections: Hosts share heartfelt memories of attending Phish concerts with their families, emphasizing the deep personal ties fans have with the band.

• New Initiatives: Introduction of the "Mount Rushmore of Fish Songs" project and an upcoming "album draft" series aimed at engaging listeners in the analytical process.

• Historical Insights: Detailed exploration of the 2/15/91 Keene, NH show provides listeners with a rich understanding of Phish's early 90s era, highlighting the band's musical evolution and live performance dynamics.

• Listener Engagement: Active incorporation of listener feedback and suggestions shapes the podcast's future direction, fostering a community-driven approach.

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Notable Quotes:

• Beth on Regrets [07:15]:
  “I was just, I don't know, sitting on campus, just not at the show. So I totally feel that many regrets.”

• Megan on the New Project [12:15]:
  “We have compiled a list of songs that we want to dive deep into, and we're going to actually require a lot of listener help because we want to hear from you.”

• Brian on Musical Creativity [35:14]:
  “There's a riffing that's so fast and so creative and so emotional.”

• Megan on "Hood" [47:14]:
  “They have huge peaks at the end of this hood, and they do some really amazing, like, swirling and crescendoing riffs at the end.”

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Stay Connected:
For participation in the "Mount Rushmore of Fish Songs" project, listeners are encouraged to visit osirispod.com/Rushmore and submit their top four versions of "Bathtub Gin" using the designated Google form.

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Join the Helping Friendly Podcast community for more in-depth analyses, fan stories, and exclusive content celebrating the timeless music of Phish.

Transcript

[Megan]

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[Brian]

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[Megan]

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[Brian]

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[Megan]

Osiris.

[RJ]

That was Brian Brinkman. You heard we are live on the broadcast. He was doing some little audio testing for us. Good afternoon, Brian.

[Brian]

Good afternoon, rj. Good afternoon, Megan. How are you guys doing today?

[Megan]

Good afternoon, gentlemen. I'm good. I'm glad to be here with you guys.

[RJ]

We're back. We're back. As always, we would never leave you. We have a lot of stuff to talk to you about today. We have new projects being announced. We have memories to share. We have shows to talk about. We have. Looking forward to do. We have so much. Let's. Let's first just. I think. I think I said last time or whenever that last episode was about 13 15. Was that last time maybe I said that it was that maybe the worst New Year's Eve show in a while. And we got a caller who surprisingly disagreed with that. So let's. Let's listen to that real quick. You guys ready?

[Megan]

Yeah. Surprisingly disagreed.

[RJ]

We don't get a lot of disagreements so we really got to air them out. Everyone thinks we filter the. The voicemails for only. Only positive but really it's just that everyone likes us. Here we go. Really?

[Megan]

We just get very few.

[RJ]

We do.

[Ben]

Hi hfpod, this is Ben in DC. So in the last episode you said that 123114 was the least memorable fish New Year's New Year's Eve show of the last 20 years. And well, so maybe that was me in an objective sense. That's true, but for me personally, it was one of my most memorable fish New Year's Eve experiences, like second only to Gamehenge. So I didn't go to Miami, but here in D.C. there was a pizza place that was showing the livestream on the big screen there. And my now 10 year old was 2 months old at the time and so she didn't really have a bedtime yet at that point. So I figured why not? I'll take her to the official livestream. So we went down there and I'm pretty sure we didn't get there in time for the first set, at least for the beginning of it. But we were definitely there for the second and third set. So we got there, we had dinner, I had pizza, she had a bottle and then I put her in the baby carrier. And for the second set we danced together. I think she was enjoying the music. I remember the ghost. And then after the second set she fell asleep so I put her down in the stroller and then watch the third set and including the admittedly ridiculous New Year's gag with the vacuum. Then at like 1am when it was over, we went home on the metro and she still stayed asleep through all of the loud drunk New Year's Eve people on the metro. So overall it was a New Year's Eve that I'll never forget. My daughter doesn't remember it, but that's to be totally expected at that age.

[Megan]

That's awesome. It's so sweet.

[RJ]

A lot of good music and sports memories from having babies. I do. Brian, do you?

[Brian]

Yeah. You know that actually brings up a memory I have from like March 16th. My son Wallace was 6 months old and we friends over and we went to our favorite dive bar in Annapolis, Davis's and they had a bunch of Marchmanship March Madden and I was wearing him in a Baby Bjorn. I was having a beer and a guy came up to me like an old sailor looking dude, just scruffy Luffy looking guy. How old is he? And I was like six, I was like six months old. He just looks at me like straight in the eyes and goes, then you're a six month old dad. And like it hit Me, I was like, I'm gonna be okay. I'm gonna be okay. But really appreciate that caller's take gets a little bit too close to the bias theory that, like, because he was there, it was a great show, or he was experienced experience in that sort of sense. But I do want to agree with him. I think that RJ was a little bit off with the worst New Year's Eve show the last 20 years. The second. Second set of the nominal. The Ghost is outstanding. Huge theme from the bottom jam. Very fluid segue into cities, which then fluidly segues into Choctaws torture, and then the big Martian monster. I would actually argue that 2011 and. And 2019 would probably get my pick as the two worst New Year's Eves of the last 20 years. But who's. But who's counting? Counting? You know, maybe our listeners are, but maybe not. You know, definitely not me. At least, definitely not rj, not me.

[RJ]

Thank you for that, Brian. Thank you to our caller. That's a cool, cool memory. Okay, so, Megan, apparently we both said that our biggest regret in terms of fish was not seeing more fish in college. And we have someone who called in to. To share in that with us. So let's listen to that real quick. Did we say that? Do you remember saying that? I remember saying it.

[Megan]

I remember us talking about that. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think I did it a lot when I was in the beginning of college, but I think towards the end of the college, I started to kind of drop off, and I do regret that a little bit, but.

[RJ]

I mean, should have just. Should have just been seeing fish throughout college. No reason not to. Yeah, I'd do that if I could go back. I'd have such great stats at this point.

[Megan]

God, I'd say stain. I know, Me too.

[RJ]

Okay. All right. All right, here we go.

[Beth]

Hey, guys, it's Beth calling from Chicago. I'm a couple weeks behind and just now listening to your 2024 draft and had to pause and call in when RJ and Meg both said that their only regrets in life were not seeing more fish in college. So I grew up in Chicago, went to College in Providence, Rhode Island. I was a second semester senior in college when the island tour happened, 1998. Was I there?

[Brian]

No.

[Megan]

That sucks.

[Beth]

And I clearly remember all my whole bunch of friends went to the show. We were all waiting for them to get back, and I was just, I don't know, sitting on campus, just not at the show. So I totally feel that many regrets. Many, many fish regrets. And Then my first show ended up being 9:23, 2000.

[Brian]

Two weeks before hiatus.

[Beth]

So, yeah, I definitely did college.

[Brian]

Right.

[Beth]

Anyway, love the show. You guys are all awesome. Talk to you soon. Bye.

[RJ]

Thanks, Beth.

[Megan]

We're all awesome. We do. We all have those shows we didn't go to. But you never regret the shows you go to, so that's just what you should think about. I should think about that when I'm thinking about spring tour, you know, or Amanda Green. Yeah. Armando Green. Never regret it. No regrets.

[Brian]

I got five in college, but they were Vegas and Coventry, so I don't know how much it counts.

[Megan]

They count.

[Brian]

They count. I tried to go to 9:23, 2000.

[RJ]

Or.

[Brian]

Excuse me, 9:22, 2000. The show before our caller went to, went to. And I was a sophomore in high school, and my mom said, no, it's a school night. You can't go to a concert. There are going to be drugs there.

[Megan]

Yeah, I get it. You should have just gone anyway. That's what I would have done.

[Brian]

Yeah, that would have worked.

[Megan]

That's kind of my move. I would, like, go to the Dead show and then get punished after. That was kind of like, you know, go to the Dead show and stay overnight in a hotel when you're 16 and then come home and deal with the, you know, the consequences of that. Which was two weeks of grounding, which was 1,000% worth it. It's not that bad.

[Brian]

I don't think. I don't think I pulled that move as much in high school as I should have. In hindsight, nothing would have happened.

[Megan]

Nothing happens. That's the thing.

[Brian]

There was no place else for me to go. I think about this when I try to reprimand my children now. Like, there's no place else for you to go. So, like, I have. I have only, like, what I can actually do to, like, take you and stuff.

[Megan]

Well, and we didn't even have devices then, so I had two weeks that I had to stay home. And what did I miss? Like, drinking in the woods a couple times. Like, I was like, this is fine. It's totally worth it.

[Brian]

Imagine it had gotten grounded for two weeks, knowing what you knew, you know now about movies and literature. I would have just been like, yeah, cool, whatever. I don't have to deal with, like, my melodramatic friends who are going to drink crappy beer in the Beer in the. Literally just, like, get a picture into the rest of the world via film and books. Oh, my God.

[Megan]

I mean, honestly, I probably did just read and watch Movies the whole time, knowing me. But, like, yes, I would do it really well now. Can someone ground? I would love to be fucking ground. That's why Covid was so great. It was parts of it. I don't want to be, like, out loud saying that, but, like, it was really nice to be quarantined. It was really nice as a mom or a dad. It was really nice to be quarantined.

[Brian]

Very troublesome take in these times.

[Megan]

Yeah. Sorry, everybody, but.

[Brian]

No, I get what you mean. I get what you mean. Rj, have you ever grounded. You strike me as someone who could have talked your way out of getting in any sort of trouble.

[RJ]

Oh, no, I got in trouble for sure.

[Brian]

Okay.

[RJ]

I got. Yeah, one time I got a. I. I drove my brother's car into, like, into the. Almost into the wall of the garage, and I tried to, like, move the shelf around that I had run into, thinking that they, like, wouldn't notice because it was like, that they noticed. I didn't know that if you. If you put it in drive that it would, like, idle, you know, I didn't, like, realize that that was a thing.

[Brian]

Sure.

[RJ]

Yeah, I got pretty good. I think I was a freshman.

[Megan]

Learning to drive is. It's like, you put these children behind these giant pieces of machinery. It's pretty scary. So I had some really unfortunate driving incidents as well in high school.

[RJ]

I think I was 13 then, or maybe 14. I should not have been, but I wanted to just see what it was like to drive a car.

[Brian]

First time I ever drove on the highway was with my dad. And as I merged onto the highway, I just. I was, like, kind of got, like, nervous. I said, dad, dad, I'm driving away. And he goes, yeah, yeah, shut up and drive.

[Megan]

Good advice, honestly.

[Brian]

What's up?

[RJ]

Okay. Thank you to our callers for, you know, sending us nice messages and bad ones, too. Well, we're going to play that. We're going to play all of them, so we're going to play all of them. All right. Do you guys. Are we going to talk about our new big project before we get into this show from February 15, 1991?

[Megan]

Oh, yeah, let's announce it. We even told people we're doing. This is so exciting.

[RJ]

Megan, you announce that you're. You're the most excited.

[Megan]

Okay. I hope I can represent it. Right. Please jump in. We are starting a new project this spring pretty soon, but we're not exactly sure when. And what we are going to do is we are going to be thinking about the four top versions of songs. So the Mount Rushmore of fish songs. So we have compiled a list of songs that we want to dive deep into, and we're going to actually require a lot of listener help because we want to hear from you. We want to hear what your top four versions of these songs are. And are we going to announce what our first song is today?

[RJ]

Yeah, why not?

[Megan]

Yeah, please. Okay, so we're going to start with Bathtub Gin. And we're going to ask for you to send us. We're going to send out a Google form, and we want you to send us your top four versions of Bathtub Gin. These are desert island versions. So we want to hear from you. We're going to take your lists, we're going to look at them, and then we're going to choose our own. But, you know, it'll be interesting to see how yours compares with our list. And I think it's gonna be really fun. I'm really excited.

[RJ]

Megan, do you know if there's, like a URL or anything where people can go to fill this out or should I tell people that.

[Megan]

Yeah, can you tell people that? It's osirispod.com right?

[RJ]

Slash.

[Armando]

Slash.

[Brian]

Rushmore.

[Megan]

Rushmore.

[RJ]

Rushmore. We are hoping to get Brian to wear a beret at some point during. During the Mount Rushmore series.

[Megan]

I have a beret. I'll send him one.

[RJ]

Well, you. You have. I mean, no offense, but you wearing a beret is like. It's not that out of the ordinary.

[Megan]

No, I like. I like a beret.

[RJ]

I could picture you. I could picture you wearing a beret. Here's the thing.

[Brian]

Here's the thing that very much picture Meghan wearing a beret, like, unironically. I can see it.

[Megan]

Okay, I'm gonna wear one for you guys and show you. I think I have one. I have never worn one recently. I'll say that.

[RJ]

Okay, so, Forbin 777. Thank you for watching, as always. How many songs will Megan be able to win? The great thing about this year is that there is no winner. We are all winners. There is no. There's no. Like, there's no gamification, really. Except. Except you're going to tell us what you think they are, and then we're going to decide on them together. I guess we could. We could disagree on them, and then we'll have that out on. On the show, and we'll disagree about maybe the fourth one or, you know, what could be what we missed, or if one of us feels strongly and we One of ours got left out. We can argue, but. But no one. There is no Victor. Except there. We're all victors. And that's what's so great about it.

[Brian]

Yeah, this will work similar to the top. Similar to the top consensus, but also there is disagreement within that consensus. And I think that that will be interesting as we dive into it. Songs. I think Jin will actually be one of these where there's probably multiple opinions about what should be in the top four among the three of us. Probably amongst you as fans as well. A song like Tweezer, like, how do you just narrow that down to four songs? Four songs. Got a rough list of around 70 fish songs and fish covers that we're going to work through into the future. This is our series we're going to try to come up with. If Megan can't win, what are we even doing here? It's a good point. No, it's a really good point, actually.

[RJ]

Kind of like our motto in life, you know, all of us really is.

[Megan]

Really, don't worry, we're. We're still going to have places to compete because we're still going to be doing our drafts, too.

[Brian]

We're going to still do our drafts, which we'll actually. We'll actually talk about later in the episode. Don't want to give you guys too much info, but I mean, the idea here. The idea here, rather than searching for, quote, unquote, the best. If you were to tell someone, I love this band, Phish. Here's a song I think is a really great. Really great represent of them. And here are four versions that I would recommend you listen to to understand them at their absolute peak. That's what we're trying to provide for the people here. So. So gonna be an unending. Maybe not unending, but for the foreseeable future, an extent. An extent we can't wait to dive into.

[Megan]

Yeah. And it's gonna be fun. He's ready to mix up, like, old songs, new songs. It's gonna be great.

[Brian]

Covers. All that.

[Megan]

Covers. Yeah.

[RJ]

We have so many. We have so many. We have a long list. And one of us is going to create a spreadsheet and it's going to be awesome. And it's going to all be organized. And that might be me. We'll see. I think it's probably going to be me. Megan. We are. We are talking about 215 91. We haven't done a show from pre1992 since a year ago. And that was when we did the mapping project. With Stephen Grip Talk and we Talked about gamehead jand8 but like I would say we didn't really like dive into a show. It's very rare that we talk about a pre 92 show. We talked about the spring 92 tour which was the number 24 ranked tour. But it's kind of like rare that we get a look at some of these shows that you know, they started. They played before they started touring heavily. This. I didn't know this. You guys probably knew this maybe. But There's a full YouTube recording of this show on YouTube which is. The quality is not good. But it's like someone had like a. Must have had a giant camcorder because it was like.

[Megan]

Right. Like one of those ones like holding it up like this.

[RJ]

Yeah, maybe like had like seven people all holding it up together. But there is a. I'll put the link in the, in the notes, but this is a 900 capacity venue. The beginning of 91 debuts, as Trey says, during the show there's a. This is the place where lots of debuts have happened. It's just a funny thing to go all the way back. Megan, what is your, what's your like first thought about this tour or this year or where we are looking at early 91?

[Megan]

Well, I was thinking about the last time we talked about this time period in fish history was when we did 40 for 40, which shockingly enough was like two years ago. So we probably covered 91 sometime in like March or something last year or two years ago. And looking back at those notes and thinking about what was going on for the band then, this is such a huge, huge year for the Fish. You know, this is. They did played 133 shows in 1991 and this 1989-1992 were the most prolific years in terms of touring for the band. They were playing like somewhere between like 125 and 150 shows every year. So they were just constantly on the move. This is the year they started recording every show too. They're going to do two full country loops this year here. This is Amy's farm. We have Lawn boy released in September 1990. So just a few months before this show happens. And they're going to have their biggest show ever at the end of 91 in New Year's Eve at Worcester. And after this tour, the spring tour, they are going to record Picture of Nectar. So a lot is happening for them. And at the end of the year they're going to sign with Elektra. It's also Just a big jump in the organization. So the band is really in a moment of humongous growth in 91.

[RJ]

So they also, you know, this, this tour, but they were always kind of like a year, not a year, but like a tour ahead of the album schedule, right? Yeah, like they're already, they're already playing songs that would, would go on, on future albums. But I think Trey, Trey talks about a new song in Kula Papyrus. Right. I mean, newish. It wasn't like a debut, but it, it, it like debuted in 91. So you get a bunch of like early, early versions of songs and then, you know, a bunch of original kind of like old school songs. I don't know. I like that I had, I had fun with this, with this show. But I'm wondering, like, how do you think this tour fits in? We probably talked about it two years ago, but maybe it's worth, maybe it's worth talking about now. You said like, so we. They drop off, they drop that show. That's 1231, 91. What happens before this was this like the first year of real serious touring?

[Brian]

I think you see the real, real serious touring happening, like starting in 89, 89, 90, 91. I think that what you see here, they make such a dramatic shift coming out of 88, where the goal seems to be let's get to every market around the country, let's repeat, let's. Let's return there as much as possible, let's go to college towns as much as possible, and let's really hone the show structure and the idea that can happen within the show. And I should say anything can happen short of jamming. So not the last time I'll make that joke in this episode here. No, but idea here is we can play any style of music. We can play incredibly fast. There's humor, there's hijinks, there's a ton of band and audience integration here. There are teases and referential moments to kind of cultural totems that this band is really interested in and really, you know, focused on. And from a touring standpoint, I'm just pulling up this tour here. This is like, admittedly a little bit of a blind spot still for me. I hate to admit that, but this is kind of the prelude to what we would see next spring. A tour that we love very much and we've talked about was in our top 25 tours. And then the following spring 1993, we band just saying once kind of the calendar turns over, we're going to spend four months on the road. We're going to do a loop right around the country and we're just going to continue to like show. I'm a huge fan of a couple of the shows in Colorado in mid March. That's kind of the one area I am really familiar with. I had a lot of those tapes when I was first getting into them, to the band, into the band, specifically 316 from Breckenridge. But overall you're just hearing them like every night. It's tight, it's new song selection, it's humor, it's all that stuff. I was talking about that in a way, Preludes, where they will go from an improvisational standpoint. It's just here in the songwriting song performance standpoint.

[Megan]

Yeah, these. This tour is massive. I mean it's basically almost four months if you pull this up. It's crazy. I mean they're touring all of February, almost every day in February, almost every day in March, almost every day in April, and then a little bit in May. That is so long to be on the road. And what's interesting, if you look back on 90, 91, 92, they're playing a lot of the same venues over and over again. So this show we're going to talk about today at the Colonial Theater in Keene, New Hampshire, this was the fourth time they played out of seven times they're going to play in this venue in two years. So they're going back to the same places a lot. And it's. Each time they're, you know, sometimes they're getting a little bigger. But I don't. I think it's not till really 93 that you. 92, 93 that you start to see them like growing where every time they go they're going playing somewhere a little bit bigger. So they're doing a lot of the same kind of hitting the same college towns over and over again. And it's. This is a 900 person venue. It actually looks very much like where I saw them for the first time, Devos hall in grand rapids, Michigan in 94. But that was kind of the off market, you know, small venue where they were still playing in small theaters in 94. But this is definitely where they were playing around like five to a thousand person venues all over the country.

[RJ]

Yeah, yeah. This tour, like later on in the tour they play in San Francisco at the DNA Lounge, which is still there and it's still like a really night nightclub, 800 capacity nightclub. But like, you know, think about all the venues they played in San Francisco over The years. And they like start at these, you know, I mean, it's just, it's exactly how you're supposed to do it. Right? They, you go to the venue, you sell enough tickets, you. You sell it out and then you move to the next venue. I mean, they did this and it, it, it's, it's also like worth remembering. Obviously. We talk a lot about like the 40 year history and how much they've, you know, everything. But, but to think that they, like you said, they go back to these cities time and again and like keep, you know, they, they just like we're grinding like every year. I mean, these tours must have been exhausting and probably disappointing on some nights and great on some nights. I mean, you know, like at some point in this tour, they play Biddy Mulligans in Chicago, which is like. Yeah, you know, they're just, they're playing these, they're just playing these like random places just to get in front of new people. And it just is like, it's just crazy.

[Brian]

And they play Madison, Wisconsin, Chicago, Illinois and then Evanston, Illinois, three nights in a row, which are all within like 90 minutes of each other. Yeah. And it just gets them to like college campuses, but also large markets like Chicago and basically say, you guys can do a loop around the region if you want to keep seeing us.

[RJ]

Yeah, it's crazy. I think 91 is like probably most known for the, for the giant Country Horns tour. Right. Like that it's, it's kind of like the only thing that people go back to. I think maybe like there's a couple shows here and there, but it's just like because of the reasons we talked about, like, there's not a lot of jamming, there's not a ton of like stuff to really go back and, you know, really dig into, but it's still fun.

[Megan]

Well, the set lists are very repetitive too. So if you're going to listen to a bunch of shows, you're going to end up listening to a lot of the same shows. And that happened in our 92 tour that we covered. There's just a lot of the same shows.

[RJ]

Yeah, I mean, it kind of happened. It kind of still happens now.

[Megan]

Yeah, yeah, there's a lot of Everything's right. There's a lot of blaze on.

[Brian]

Yeah, I think that if, if someone goes back, they usually stop at spring 92 because that's the first.

[Megan]

Yeah, that makes sense.

[Brian]

Of these early, like the 8, like 89 to 92 is always in my head as like a specific segment in fish history that they then broke out of in 93. But 92 of those four is the one that sounds the most like modern fish, Even though you don't have paid yet on the baby grand. There are those hints of moments, and there are those second sets that are just outstanding.

[RJ]

I just. We're recording this on the day of the third of four Mexico shows. I cannot believe that they haven't played moment yet. If they don't play night three, then I will go. I'll go back and listen to every single my soul that fish has ever played. If they don't play it tonight.

[Megan]

God. All right, well, the gauntlet has been thrown down. I can't wait to see now if.

[Brian]

They don't play moma dance, you're gonna play. You're gonna listen to every single my soul that they've ever played.

[RJ]

Yep.

[Megan]

Trey, don't play it tonight. I really want to see RJ have to do this.

[RJ]

It's gonna be a horrible.

[Brian]

But I don't know why you offered that up yourself.

[RJ]

Well, I just. Trying to keep things interesting. Trying to keep things interesting. I mean, I didn't say over any particular time. I mean, they played it 92 times, so, you know, I'll make my way through. But, you know, I've seen 20 of them, so, you know, I'll just go back and listen to some shows. Okay, let's talk about this show. Megan, is there anything else that we need to know about this? You know, context is everything. That's what people keep saying.

[Megan]

It is everything. I think we've got it. I mean, I think that this. It is cool to think about what it looked like and what the venue looks like. RJ had a great picture of it on our YouTube link that it really is one of these old theaters that, you know, it's still open today, and they have, like, the touring musical will come through. A music act, like a comedy show, like Sierra hall is playing there recently. Like, I think that's the kind of places they were playing there. And this was probably on, like, the higher end of where they were playing. Like, you said, they were playing some smaller places, too. So this is definitely a great venue for them to play, and they love it. And Trey talks about it, and you can tell they feel really good in New Hampshire. You know, it was one of the first states that they really stretched out into. They play so much in New Hampshire in those early years, and so it's. It's a place that feels good for them, and the crowd is super great, and Also, this audience recording is awesome. Like, it's such a good quality.

[RJ]

Yeah, it is. It is. Go ahead.

[Brian]

On the on, Fish talks about the fact that this is one like the room and the actual tapers. Like, this is one of the best early tapes that you could get at this point in time. And so this one actually was. Was traded quite a lot.

[RJ]

Glenn Russell, who's watching this? It's a good point about context that, like, this is. This is also, as you said, super fertile times for all the young east coast jam bands. Blues Traveler, Spin Doctors, Fish. There was a pebble buzz about what was happening. Okay, well, so what did you guys think of this first set? Besides the fact that they play really fast and everything's awesome? Spoiler alert. What else was.

[Megan]

Yeah, I mean, I think that the biggest thing that stands out to me about this show in general is the flow is incredible. It just has, like this really great momentum, the first set and the second set. And I really also love. Trey's tone is really tinny, but it works. And his playing is so aggressive. And it's just a fun show to hear. Kind of that pure Fish feeling like this is them when they're not trying to do anything new or break out of the box. They're just trying to, like, be Fish. And that's, to me, what stands out the most out of the show.

[RJ]

Yeah, I mean, I think there's like. In the first set, you know, like, everything's played flawlessly and really, like, it's just so. It's. It's so well rehearsed and there are very few clubs and all that. But I think it's kind of cool. Like Split open and Melt. I think it's kind of fascinating to listen to a song like this before they really figured out how to expand the jamming beyond, like, the song structure. Like you can. This is like a. It's like an early draft. You know, there's like. There's like a, you know, two minute period of Split open and melt where it, like, kind of sounds like it could become something that's not related to the song. And that's just kind of cool to hear, you know, in the context.

[Megan]

I think there's a lot of those in here where there's like seven minute songs where there's actually like two or three minutes where they stretch out and you're like, oh, that sounds cool. Like in that Split open and melt they get. It sounds really jazzy and rich. I mean, there's such a jazz band almost in moments in this, but you can really hear that there. They are finding stuff even in short jams.

[RJ]

And I'm just going to say that the night two of Mexico, the entire first set was seven minute songs. So, you know, like, let's not look down on 1991, guys.

[Megan]

I actually think Mexico has been really good. I mean, it's probably not there, but I'm just saying I thought it's been really good. I love that you're shitting on it. It's hilarious.

[RJ]

No, I, I just think it's like, like when I was listening to it today, it was like, okay, another another seven minutes. I mean there's like 13 or 14. They're all almost exactly. It's almost like they were trying to see how many seven to eight minute songs they could play. There's nothing over nine and a half and nothing under six. I mean, it's crazy. That's crazy for a set because usually you get a divided sky or like something that pushes the 10, 11, 12 minute mark. But to have everything under 10 minutes in the first set, I just think is. I feel like maybe it like I feel like they almost have to try to do that at this point. But we're not talking about Mexico.

[Brian]

Well, we are now. We are now.

[Ben]

We sure are.

[Brian]

It's the thing that endlessly confounds me and I would just. It's the reason why I want post fish show press conferences. Like, like, what was the decision there, Trey? Like you had a really good thing going in the 46 days. It sounded like you found a co effect. You guys were like in a group. Like that was cool. Could have been like a 15, 16 minute first set jam and instead you were like, nope, we're going back into 46 days. I don't know what to tell you guys at this point in time.

[RJ]

You know, post visual press conferences is just, it's just such an awesome idea.

[Brian]

Like Mike has to face the media to be like, why did you call for mall there? Like why, why are you. Why do you still think that Yarmouth Road is the right call to do on third and long? Like what, what are we doing here, Mike?

[Megan]

Mike, why are you dressed like a highlighter tonight?

[Brian]

Can we get that information like after 12, 28? Like fish. Trey, are you guys. What's going on? Did you guys not sync up and practice what's happening here? No, but like I think that you have some good points about the first set from last night in Mexico. I think that Megan is in the correct position here though, that it's been, I would say A really great Mexico run thus far. Killer start to the awesome Piper. Great. Everything's right. Beautiful light. What else did we get? There was something else in there that I'm blanking on, but. But it was. It was twist. Was really fun. The city's great. Thank you, Meg. I thought Night one was an excellent way to kick off the year, and I'm really stoked for everyone there. I hope everybody there right now is, like, doing that thing where they hang out at Los Tacos and order just drinks and hang out and have fun in the sun. This is like when the sadness, though, kicks in, because you know that when.

[Megan]

You go tonight, you only got a little bit more. You're, like, halfway done. It's like, it's. It's a little sad the whole time. You're in the groove.

[Brian]

You know what to do. You know what your routine is. You know what time to order room service because it's going to show up like 45 minutes late or like an hour and a half early. You never really know. But you know how to figure that out by now.

[Megan]

You know how to get your ice. You know how to get your ice cream that you put in your freezer and your fridge so you have a milkshake when you get back from the. From the show, like, you know what you're doing. Yeah.

[Brian]

You know how long it takes to walk to the cafe to get some coffee so that you can catch the golf cart and then take that all the way down to the venue, slowly walk in. You know what stands to go and get Tacos. I mean, come on. Come on, fish.

[Megan]

Mexico is a dream. They're having a great time. And night one I thought was awesome. Great flow, killer set list, warmup jams like we talked about. Connected playing. Like, I don't think you get any better than a first night. And thank God they're not doing one set shows anymore.

[Brian]

To push this back to 1991.

[Megan]

Yeah, let's get.

[RJ]

Can I just say that I haven't listened to set two of the second night yet, so.

[Megan]

Well, that's why you are unsure of what's going on there, because.

[RJ]

No, I'm just. All I said is that all the songs of the second set were between seven and nine minutes. That was a factual.

[Megan]

Wait, the first set? Yes.

[Brian]

It's like you left your showing of the Brutalist at intermission and we're like, I have opinions on this movie and.

[RJ]

You have no idea. I made a factual statement that there were no songs later than longer than 10 minutes. I mean, you have no idea. We lost our sense for facts in this country.

[Megan]

Yes. Yes.

[Brian]

In the second half. You have no idea what is going on here. Tell me what happened at the marble. In the. The marble quarry.

[Megan]

Quarry.

[RJ]

I don't need to tell me what happened.

[Megan]

A lot happened.

[RJ]

No one's paying attention. Bring it back to 1991, Brian.

[Brian]

Bringing it back to 1991. So I think that the thing that's interesting about this first set, Meg, you're right about the flow standpoint, rj, right about the song time standpoint. I think that one of the biggest arguments for going back and listening to this era, which admittedly I don't do as much as I should, is this is the era where there's not a single bad fish song. There's not a song that you don't want to hear live.

[Megan]

This is very true.

[Brian]

Every song. Like, I'm just gonna read the first set. Curtain. Wilson. Divided Sky, Melt Fee. Buried Alive. Mango Song. Sloth Dinner in a Movie. Magia, Llama. Like, this is just pure fish. It's pure fish. You get some gamehenge, you get the curtain, which is like the greatest without the whiff part, which is like the greatest intro to a song you can ask for. It's a little bit of a melt right up front. Buried Alive, kind of randomly in the middle there. Mango Song. Always really nice to hear. Sloth Dinner, movies, some weird kind of high energy. Prague, Magia, you got some jazz Llama. You just close this out with just so much aggression. My note for Llama was just that this band must have just blown people away with how aggressive and fast and varied they were. Like, at the end of the set, you've heard all excellent songs, all played incredibly tight and all played in an order that they probably won't be repeated anytime soon. Soon, if. If ever. It's just. It's. It's cool to see kind of a snapshot of this looking back in time.

[Megan]

There's no dad Rock in this set.

[RJ]

No Dead.

[Brian]

There's no dad. No, they're not even. What are these guys, like, three years away from being dads? Like, this is.

[Megan]

Yeah, they're really hungry and. Yeah. And they're, like, flirting with weirdness. Like the dinner in a movie. Like, you mentioned it briefly, Brian, but it's pretty demented. Like, it gets really weird and kind of creepy and it's. And they're doing some great segues. Like, it slips so nicely into Miguela. Like, it's just. This is a great first set. It's like so punchy it's just. It's awesome. Yeah, but set two is where kind of the magic is in the show.

[RJ]

Well, tell us what to tell. Actually, you know what? Let's take a break first. Before we talk about magic, we need to leave time for magic.

[Megan]

Always. Hi, I'm Daniela Clark. I'm Barbara Ann Wild. And we are the Honest AF Show.

[RJ]

Our podcast is real, honest conversation with.

[Megan]

Our celebrity friends and pros covering our anything but average rock and roll lifestyle, all while tackling the hell that is aging and the battle of beauty. Oh, yeah, nothing is off the table. The Honest AF show is available wherever you get your podcasts.

[Brian]

Hey, what's up, you guys?

[RJ]

This is Reed Mathis. I made a podcast called the Gifts of Improvising that's come. The Gifts of Improvising that's coming out on Osiris. We talk to all your favorite improvisers.

[Brian]

Natalie Crestman, Marco Benevento, Tom Hamilton, Aaron.

[RJ]

Magner, Holly Bowling, Bill Kreutzman, and Jay Lane. So what are you doing a podcast? Yeah, doing a podcast.

[Megan]

So don't fear if you hear a foreign sound to your ear.

[RJ]

We need the gifts of improvising.

[Megan]

Improvising.

[RJ]

Okay, Megan, tell us. Tell us about the magic.

[Megan]

Well, this set, second set, opens with David Bowie, and this is an awesome version. And I was thinking about David Bowie a lot, and I was looking at the jam chart for this song, and it debuts in 1986, and there are 24 versions on the Jam chart before this version in 215 91. But that is kind of ridiculous because there's only really five or six versions before this one that go big. And I'm just going to share those really quickly. So. And you can tell me what I've left off, because I'm sure I'm going to leave off some. The ones that stand out to me are the 88 version from Gallagher's. It's 18 minutes. It's got like six minutes of really good improv in there. 5.26.89 from Rutland. They call that the lazy Lester Bowie. Then you've got Halloween 89 from Goddard, the Mac and Cheese version. That one went over 20 minutes. Then there's the 15 minute version from Keen, which is the same venue in September 1990. And then there's the Live Bait 6 version from Boulder from 11 290. And then there's this one. So this is one of the really early versions of Good David Boys, and this only is 12 minutes, but they do actually pack a lot into it at seven Minutes in they start doing this droning kind of early foreshadowing of sirens, almost really great tension building. And then they have a silent jam at the end and the full band drops right back in for some really impassioned playing at the end. And it's just cool to think that this song is building its way up and you can kind of see the progression in a really cool way. And it's a really great example of how much they're doing in such a short amount of time. And I think that's true of gin too. But I want to hear your thoughts on this, Bowie, you guys.

[RJ]

Yeah, I mean, I think the, the like improv that you hear is like these little kind of riffs which are. It's like band practice, you know, like, you hear these little repetitive, like repetition of a, of a theme or riff that Trey gets on and then, you know, Mike follows it and you can, you can tell that those like, practices that they do are, are coming to life in, in the live context. I mean, it's, they're not like spectacular versions, but it's cool to hear those little, like you described, like little two minute segments where it feels like they're, they're getting something totally new and different. And that's just, it's really fun to hear. Um, there's like a. There's like a lot of, you know, intensity at the end, you know, and I feel like the way they were able to like bring those, you know, little pieces of improv into like a full, full crescendo is really cool. It's, it's, it's a fun version for sure. I feel like the, the bathtub gin that follows it has a similar thing. It's only like eight minutes long, but the last two minutes are really cool. It's almost like a later melt jam or something, like really starts to kind of decay and there's like weird sounds and like, it's pretty. There's a lot happening in those, in those eight minute jams.

[Brian]

There's a lot of ideas. I mean, this is just past when they were doing the Okipa ceremonies in the late 80s. So that. That's still there. It' it seems clear that intentionally or not, they just. The last thing that they want to do is get so far out there and prevent some of these other songs from showing different sides of themselves. One thing I found really interesting, I mean, you get like, we talked about this a bit in the August 93 top 25 tours that fish kind of communicated by way of teases. In this era. And so you get like the sounds of silence tease at the start. Like Meg said, the silent Jam. Like the stuff that feels a little bit more gimmicky 30 years later at this point in time. Like this is. That's actually like really hard stuff to do for a band. There's a reason why, like a lot of bands don't insert teases or silent jams into their performances because it's just. It's hard to do. But one thing I found interesting, this is an opener of the second set. And I was thinking about how often David Bowie has been an opener for a show or for a second set. And it's way less than I anticipated. Do you guys want to take a guess? So there's been 503 performances of David Bowie. How many of those do you think has opened a show or a set?

[Megan]

20. RJ.

[RJ]

45.

[Brian]

Oh, RJ 42. 8%.

[Megan]

Oh, close.

[Brian]

8% of all David Bowie's have opened second sets or have opened sets in general. Either the opening of the show or the opening the second set. It's kind of a song that as they will evolve, will become like the second or third song of the set will kind of anchor the middle of the set or will be a closer. And it's cool to hear it at this point in time. Just played in a totally different position as they're figuring out what is this song like, what, what is the intro Communicate. Is there a way to slowly bring someone into the set by way of all this weirdness? And can we expand this in a way that like it can dominate a set and really anchor it from the start? But I thought that was interesting. The last time that opened a set was 1229, 2022. So even today it's not really utilized in that sort of standpoint. I'm just going to offer out unsolicited advice for Fish. Maybe tonight, here in Mexico or there in Mexico. I'm not. I'm not there right now, but maybe tonight let's open the second set with it and just see where it goes. Let's not rush back. Let's just slowly work our way through the quiet. Maybe work our way into a silent jam and see what happens. I'm sure that you guys could play a great version if you really wanted to. I think that that's what it is. You may not want to to.

[Megan]

They clearly don't want to. They got really quiet last night a few times like, let's do it, let's do it, guys. We believe in You.

[Brian]

Last night we got the first 20 minute piper since 2004.

[Megan]

That actually blew me away. I never have thought of that. I thought it would have been like few years ago, like recently. I did not think that.

[Brian]

Really good pipers of late. And yet.

[RJ]

Wait, the first what?

[Brian]

It was the first 20 minute piper since 2004.

[RJ]

Really?

[Megan]

That is so crazy to me. I'm really shocked at that stat.

[Brian]

And so if we can do that. Hey, guys, we can. We can do a 20 minute Bowie, I feel. If you want to.

[Megan]

Of course we can.

[Brian]

Really, if you want to.

[RJ]

I think we could.

[Megan]

It's a trolling. They've got to do it. But yeah, I think there's a monster jam coming tonight. Let's. If it was Bowie, it would be great. Great.

[Brian]

How funny is the monster trolling if it just keeps going Like I get the monster trolling for like two years and then being like, cool, here we go. There's your giant 35 minute David Bowie.

[Megan]

But they're just waiting for the perfect moment. They're waiting for all three of us to be at a show together.

[Brian]

Oh, that's my.

[Megan]

And then they'll just. Then they'll just drop it. They'll be like, we just were waiting for HF Pod to be together.

[RJ]

Guys. We were. Brian, we were there. It was. It would almost happened at Alpine. It almost happened.

[Brian]

It was the best version you've ever seen.

[Megan]

So much almost happened at Alpine.

[Brian]

I stand. I stand in testament. It was. It was great.

[RJ]

It was the best bow I've ever seen.

[Megan]

Remember that? Controversy?

[RJ]

Yeah, like, people were telling me what the best movie that I've ever seen was. They're like, what about 12, 29, 94? I'm like, I wasn't at the.

[Megan]

They missed like a huge part of that.

[Brian]

Read the tweet. Did you not.

[RJ]

Did you just. And then I shared all the Bowies I've seen and people are like, I know, that's amazing. It kind of makes sense. Sense.

[Brian]

That was the best thing to happen in any of those seven shows I saw in late 2022. I'll tell you what. That controversy.

[RJ]

I know sometimes. Sometimes you got to go back to things that are. That are interesting. Okay, guys, this, this. Well, there's a couple other things. First of all, I was thinking about the, the, the hood. Because it doesn't really sound like them. Because they're like 10 years old. It sounds like it doesn't even sound like them singing. When they're singing hood. I'm like, this is not even. It doesn't even really sound like them, which is just crazy.

[Megan]

I know. I know. You know, it sounds like baby fish. Like, teenage fish. It's like. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was just listening to the. The white tape for something else we're doing, and it sounds like teenagers playing fish. You're like, is it a fish cover band? Like, it's so cute, you know? And that's.

[RJ]

I'm curious why you were listening to the white tape, but maybe we can get to that before we talk about that later.

[Megan]

Maybe we'll talk about that later.

[Brian]

Interesting take.

[RJ]

Everyone get ready. Go on, get ready. Sorry.

[Megan]

Get ready. Maybe I'm just throwing you off. Yeah. I want to talk about this hood, and then I want to go back and talk about. But the hood, it's Trey's tone. It's so different than it is now. And so when you hear him playing hood in this version, it's just like, yeah, it sounds like them, but it doesn't sound like them. But. But they have huge peaks at the end of this hood, and they do some really amazing, like, swirling and crescendoing riffs at the end. It's just. You can hear them getting there, and they hit the emotion in Divided sky, too. So it's like they're. They have that in them. They're. They're there emotionally. They're just, like, not able to, like, you know, fully, like, embrace it, I think, but they're still getting there. They're hitting it.

[Brian]

I think that that's a. That's a. It's a really good way to put it. And, like. Like, it's so funny to me to think about how within six years, they are going to realize that the intro to Harryhood can just be stretched over five minutes, and it doesn't need to be rushed through. Within two years, fans are going to realize, let's not clap at the start of this jam, because that just speeds the band up and that distracts everyone. But all along, the connective tissue and what, like, is so fascinating about listening to this era and comparing it to three, four years from then all the way up to today, is Trey, like, the gear may not be the best. Paige may sound like he's playing a Casio keyboard. The audience may clap where they shouldn't be clapping, but Trey is coming in with these organic, original new ideas. The riffing is so fast and so creative and so emotional. And for a band that is, like, about to play a Sid Barrett song as a joke and do a vacuum solo on the other side of playing, like A really weird, wacky ACDC bag to zero in on this kind of emotion and really just like, let that hang for 10 minutes. It's really, really fascinating that they were able to drop that in to a set like this. And it really connects and it kind of foreshadows, at least for me, where they're going to go with ballad writing and where they're going to go with a little bit more emotional playing as we move through the 90s. So, like, you can hear it, but like you said, Mike, like, it's. It's. It's very clearly like a pre completed picture of Fish hinting at where they're going to go.

[Megan]

Well, and it's so cool to think about that even though they were this weird band that wants to sing like Frank Zappa, they still. Trey still has these really lofty compositional ideas that are deeply emotional. And hearing them play that when they're such a young band is. It's so inspiring.

[RJ]

What else we got?

[Megan]

Can we talk about ismr?

[RJ]

Yeah, sure.

[Megan]

Because it's actually really, really good. The way Fishman is keeping time is just unbelievable. And Paige sounds really great. He has kind of like a crappy organ, but it has a real baseball, I don't know, feel to it. Like, it just. It sounds so great. It's such like a zippy version. I really like this version of Yamar, and it's kind of perfectly placed here. And that song always feels like summer to me. But in this version, it actually sounds like, really nice here. And it's kind of perfect in this theater. I think I can imagine it there. It's nice.

[Brian]

It also kind of speaks to the way that set lists were crafted back then, where you get Bowie, you get like a slowed down, kind of weird bathtub Djinn and. Let's go Yamar. Let's go Gula Papyrus let's go, my sweet one. Why not? Why jam at all? Yeah. The Humara is nice, though. The Gula, though. As you noted earlier, rj, Trey talks about how they love playing new songs in Keen. It's their favorite place to play.

[RJ]

Who doesn't.

[Brian]

Who doesn't say that today?

[RJ]

Well, they.

[Brian]

It makes me think about that because, like, in 1991, this is probably like the biggest that they thought they would be where, like. Like when they come back to Northeast Kingdom, everybody goes to Keene to see them. Everybody goes to, you know, one of these smaller cities around the Northeast to see them. And that had to be like, that's. What else do they need? You know? And they don't realize that MSG is looming, amphitheaters are looming, festivals are looming. And, like, within three years, like, they've been in this band now for eight years, and within. In five years, they're gonna play the Clifford Ball. So, like, less than half of the time that they have been at this, they're gonna play to almost 100,000 people in the Northeast. Like, it's just. It's such a fascinating period in their history where I think that they felt that this is the bet. Like, this is the peak. All these fans here, this venue, this is the best it could ever get.

[Megan]

I wonder, like, how much they knew because they signed with Elektra at the end of the year. So, like, there are. They are in talks, right, with record labels. And, like, this is kind of the beginning of, like, the jam renaissance of, like, of the 90s. And, you know, pretty soon, like, when I was in high school in 92, 93, everybody's, like, going to jam shows and wearing tie dyes and, you know, everybody's wearing Birkenstocks. Like, this is. This is kind of the beginning of that. And I wonder if they had an idea of what their growth was going to be like.

[RJ]

I mean, we know for sure, based on interviews with Trey, that, you know, he was not, Certainly not modest about. About his goals. I mean, I don't. I think. I think at the time. I think he's always done a good job of being grateful when things are happening to them, but I feel like he was never, like, we're gonna tour around New England and, like, Keane is going to be like, you know, our favorite place to go.

[Megan]

So you're saying he's full of. He's just like, I love time.

[RJ]

I think at the time, he loved it. But I think he had aspirations, you know, that were wildly beyond keen, you know, But I. But I think he does a good. I guess what I'm saying is I think he did a good job of staying grateful in the moment, probably always and still does, you know, while still, like, really expecting a lot out of himself, mostly.

[Brian]

I. I think that's the thing, and I think that's the really fascinating aspect of all this, is that they sound like a band that never wants to get bigger than they are right here, here. But they do. They clearly do. And so you get these really wild mixes going back to this period where, like, you can listen. And again, like, spring 92 is usually the earliest I go in this area, but, like, you felt it here that they are so thrilled that all These people came out, they're so thrilled to prevent, to present who they are at this point in time. What there's, what their songs say, a little bit of experimentation with in there and they're just thrilled to be at the party. But they also know long term, this is not like this isn't the end. And I wonder, is it was the inspiration the ability to just like not have to worry about money and just worry about art? Or is the inspiration that every single night that he walked on stage he could wear a new $700 shirt?

[Megan]

He's an artist, guys. He's driven by a need to create and a need to make art and to do it in the best possible way that he can and continue evolving. And that's what's cool though about this show too, is that when you look back at these versions of these songs, some of them are like chalk dust. This is the seventh performance of this song. That's crazy. The song is going to be so huge. It's going to have the biggest, best jam of last year in a lot of people's minds. And they're going to play a 45 minute version of it in 20. And it's a seventh performance. It debuted two weeks earlier at Brown in Providence. And the first memorable performance is probably going to be May of 91 at the campus club. That's like when the lights went off and then they came back on and they kept playing. But this song is like just, just beginning. And it's so cool to listen to these songs in this like nascent stage. It's. It's really cool. And see how they're figuring out where they go.

[Brian]

Yeah, I was thinking about that.

[RJ]

Trey. I think trade. I think Trey's fashion sense, I think it's like his desire for nice clothes really came late, you know.

[Brian]

Yeah, I know, you're right.

[Megan]

It's really recent.

[Brian]

He's wearing a lot of like two dollar black T shirt tank tops in this era and like, like there's the thick tongues on like the early 90s sneakers.

[Megan]

Oh my God. Really?

[Brian]

Just strange fashion at this point in time. I was thinking a lot about Choctaws contextually as well. So 518 performances, seven to date at the point of this show. And it's a set to closer, which is a pretty rare thing. I unfortunately I did not pull the stats on how many times it's closed the set, but it's not really a rare feature. I can do it live if you want. It just may take a little bit, but like, like it is crazy to me. It's endlessly wild to me. The fact that Chalk dust torture was this in the Fish catalog, which was just like a straight ahead six minute rock song.

[Megan]

Right.

[Brian]

And is now the best jam vehicle that the band has. And how bizarre that is as. As a concept for where Fish is at in their career. I'm curious your guys thoughts on that. Like, did you ever think that when you were starting to see fish in the mid-90s 80s.

[RJ]

No. And I mean not until 2013. Really? You know, like they're. That. That's like when it became what it is today. You know, 2013 versions. I don't know. No, I did not think that. I thought it was just like a song that they played to, you know.

[Megan]

It's just like a vibe song. Yeah, just like a party song. Like a, you know, like character zero. Like let's just build the crowd up and like get people excited. It never, it never seemed that important. But that's what's so fucking cool about Fish, right? You just never know what's going to become the new song that we're going to be talking about in our Mount Rushmore episodes. You know, you just never know.

[RJ]

You never know.

[Brian]

Will what's going through your mind become a Mount Rushmore qualified song by the time we finish the series?

[Megan]

Oh, qualified that already? Probably. I mean this song had one of the best jams in Bond degree.

[RJ]

Yeah.

[Brian]

Yeah, it did.

[RJ]

I think it has to. I think it has to hit. What did we say, 50?

[Brian]

Is that how many versions? And then it has to. It has to have four qualifying versions at that point in time. So.

[RJ]

Yeah, I mean we're at, we're at five times played, so you know, it's.

[Megan]

Gonna take a bit. Maybe if this is on that. Exactly. They might. Trey might.

[RJ]

Okay, we gotta. Okay, we have to announce. We actually have a voicemail that we're gonna, that we're gonna play at the end of this episode. Is there anything else about the show that you guys wanna mention before we move on?

[Megan]

Yes, one more thing. The first encore is so fucking awesome. Like come out and play an eight minute caravan, eight minute jazz encore. Incredible communication in this jazz. So cool, so good. And then just go right into big black furry creature from Mars where Mike like goes off and it feels so perfect. Like this is an encore worth having. What if they just came out and played Caravan as an encore? What if they did that at Mondra Green on the last day that people would have died? Like, it's just. It's so cool. I love. I think this is unbelievable. Set listing right here.

[RJ]

Megan, can I tell you a band that played a seven minute Caravan last weekend?

[Megan]

Yes.

[RJ]

Yeah, Reprise. They open. Open the Sunday night show in New Hampshire with Caravan. There are a bunch of new dates you guys should go to Reprise.

[Megan]

Can we just say something really quickly about that? I was at the Park City show last week and I think that's been since we, since we aired last time. And that room was packed and people were going crazy. And the band, just like we talked about with Scott when we had him on, they are nailing all the compositions. But then they're really diving into the jamming in a way that's risky and really in the moment and their own, but also kind of honoring the jam that was there. And the tweezer that they opened the show with was absolutely incredible. And the whole show was just so great and everybody was having the most incredible time and there's huge momentum behind this band and so everybody should go see Reprise as soon as you can. It's so much fun. Fun.

[Brian]

Yeah. Everything I've heard, the, the diversity of jamming is really like the biggest takeaway for me because it's, it's clear they're not just like, okay, we need to learn this song and we need to learn this set list and whatever hijinks. Like, they're actually listening to this era of fish history. How do we incorporate that to do that over like a weekend? Multiple eras. Come on. It's killer. Steph.

[RJ]

Sorry. I would like to go back to this, this encore, Brian, or whatever else you want to say about this show.

[Brian]

I'd like to, I would like to second your, your, your take there, Meg. This is how you. Encore. The encore should not be this, like, complicated experience. If we're gonna do an encore, give us a rarity. Give us a fun song. Like nobody's gonna complain when you get a Santos encore. Cool, Whatever. But like, you got 20 more minutes. Let's just say. I mean, I will too. Like, what are we, what are we doing? You know, Like, Caravan has been played since 12, 2986. By all accounts, it doesn't sound that complex for the band to play. I think that they could probably learn in their dressing room tonight if they wanted to and do a caravan into a 25 minute Dana Bowie. Come on. And then big black furry creature from Mars. Like, super fun, high energy. I'm sure if you were walking into your first fisher, you're walking out like, wait, that band just played all that music for, for two and A half hours. And then they ended on a weird metal song. Like, what the is it? Like, what is going on here? Like, who is this band? So. And then the second encore is basically an encore Contact Lady. Like, that's been done over and over again. Can't complain. But, like, I don't have any notes.

[Megan]

Trey's like, oh, yeah. This is how we actually end shows. This is how we really do it.

[RJ]

You guys are so mean. You're so mean to Trey.

[Megan]

We have high expectations because we, you know, he's the best. So he's my favorite, you know, favorite musician of all time. He's got to deliver for me, so I don't look like a fool for saying he's the best.

[RJ]

That's true. It's all about protecting Meg's reputation. All right, Brian.

[Brian]

Fans have high expectations.

[RJ]

They do. They do for her, for her podcast. All right, guys, we are going to actually. Okay, just real quick. Hold on. I got to. I got to do this here.

[Brian]

I do your time. Don't worry.

[Megan]

You can do whatever you want.

[RJ]

I know. I trust your show, man.

[Brian]

We're just here.

[RJ]

It used to be. It was at one time. That one time. It was my show. All right, so we got. We got. Next week, we are going to come back and we are going to talk about Mexico 2025, and we got an awesome voicemail from a listener who suggested something that we're going to tell you right now because we're going to do it. So if you send your suggestions in, we might do them.

[Megan]

That's a great idea.

[RJ]

Yep.

[Armando]

Hey, everybody, this is Brendan McLean from Marshfield, Vermont, Longtime listener, big fan of you guys and looking forward to the day where we might cross paths. So I was just listening to your episode about 1315 from Miami, me and heard a caller make a suggestion about a deep dive into some albums and how you guys reflected upon some things that you'd already done in that regard. But I was thinking maybe it'd be cool if you guys paired that idea with your draft idea and do an album draft. And you've got, you know, certainly 10 or more Fish albums to choose from and plenty of side project albums to choose from from anything in the mix, from Trey to Surrender to the Air to the Everyone Orchestra. Lots of albums out there that would be great fodder for conversation and analysis along the way. You guys can kill two birds with one stone in doing so and tons of fun to listen to. So once again, thanks a lot for all your work. Really enjoying the program lately, and take.

[RJ]

Care so what's great about that voicemail is, first of all, thank you for listening. And second of all, for some conversation and analysis along the way. We're sold. Brian immediately started making a spreadsheet was like, conversation analysis along the way. I'm in.

[Brian]

I'm in.

[Megan]

That sold it.

[Brian]

Yeah. Being able to put these albums into context. Competition, See if we can defeat Meg finally.

[Megan]

Can you guys handle it? I don't know if I can handle it. I hope. I hope you're ready. I hope you guys come ready, because I'm going to come ready. Because I am, like, really fueled from the last one. And it hasn't left those lingering feelings of extreme competition. I'm just saying get ready.

[Brian]

You still have, I think, 55 minutes if you want to share any more of your feelings here.

[Megan]

Well, Brian, will you tell us how you set up? Because the album draft is pretty cool. Just, like, tell people about it so that we can, you know, people can get prepared.

[Brian]

So we took this idea, we spun it out. I think we have, like, 24 albums to choose from, something in that range. We did all of the traditional studio albums, and then we threw in, like, the man who Stepped Into Yesterday, the Wendell Sessions, a live one, Slip Stitch and Pass, the Headphones, Jam, and then a couple of these 2010s and 2020s Halloween album reinventions like Wingsuit, Chilling, Thrilling, Cosmopolitan Fox, and Get More Down. So we get about 24 albums here, I think, is what we're totals at. And we're going to do this in a slightly different format. We are not assigning albums at the start, a section that you can then draft them into. All albums are essentially qualified for any section. Now, some of them, for example, we have a 1.0 section that will be drafted in and a 2.0 to 4.0 section to be drafting in. We have a unreleased live album to be drafting in. Yes, Victor Disc is available. I shouldn't say that so enthusiastically because people might steal it, but you can.

[Megan]

Draft an album that implies someone owns it already. Just so.

[RJ]

Only if Brian says it's his favorite album of all time.

[Megan]

Yeah, I better get a list of all Brian's favorite albums so that when I pick them, I can find out that I've stole his albums. I can't wait.

[Brian]

You guys need to start explaining the rules to this again, or are we good?

[RJ]

No, we're good. It's all. Basically all Wild Cards. You just. We're going essential.

[Brian]

Pretty much, yeah. So we have six categories you're going to draft into Each you're going to draft and then pick the category that you're in. So it's going to add a little bit of a spin here, a little bit of an element of surprise. If you take for example, a picture of Nectar, you could take that in 1.0, you could take that in the charted LP category, you could take that in Wild Card, you can make an argument that there's a jam on there as well. There's a lot of ways that we can spin this and I think it should be a ton of fun for us as podcasters and as competitors and as sometimes friends. And I think for you guys as listeners, hearing our opinions and hearing how we try to justify these picks within each category should be fun. It's gotten me to do a full chronological deep dive of all of Fish's studio albums, which is something I can admit I've never actually done before. I've listened to all these albums but I've never listened to them in a row. And it's really kind of fascinating to hear how they've approached the studio at various points. And I will just throw it out there. I got some takes and I'm really excited to get into it.

[Megan]

Brian Brinkman has takes.

[Brian]

I got some opinions about that.

[Megan]

That's wild.

[RJ]

Okay, so none of the sarcasm.

[Brian]

None of it.

[Megan]

Oh good. There wasn't any.

[RJ]

We are going to be, we are going to be back next Wednesday with a Mexico recap of all four Mexico shows and then we're going to be back the following Wednesday with this very draft and then the week after that we're going to Mexico 19.

[Brian]

Mexico 2019. We're going to have a guest on the show. Good friend of the pod, our friend, I hope your friend, you know, although I understand if he's blown up text threads of yours about crazy stuff as well. Mr. Ryan Storm will be joining us. He is an adamant supporter of Mexico 2019. I hear recommendations to listen to jams from that run at least once a week. So we are going to dive into that, give it a six year anniversary redo, see what Fish was up to towards the tail end of the 2000 and tens.

[RJ]

Gonna be awesome.

[Megan]

It's gonna be.

[RJ]

So we got a lot of stuff coming up and I guess I just, I'll re reiterate that if you go to osirispod.com Rushmore Send us your thoughts on, on your top four bathtub gins of all time, we're going to take them into consideration. We might ridicule them. We, you know, we don't know what we're going to do with them, but. But we are gonna, at some point in March, we're gonna do this, right? We're gonna do Mount Rushmore Choctaws torture. I mean, bathtub gin and then Choctaw torture right after that.

[Brian]

Sure, we can do Choctaws right after that. But yeah, at some point. We've got got everything planned here until the middle of February. And then maybe if you guys want to hang out with us for HF Pod tour planning episode right after this where we open up spreadsheets and open up our calendars. We're gonna figure out the exact date to launch this and we'll talk you.

[RJ]

Yep. Megan has to go get her planner, her paper. Her whole calendar is written down on a piece of paper. So I hope you don't lose it. Megan, you're in big trouble.

[Megan]

It's a book.

[RJ]

What if your dog eats that piece of paper? Your whole life doesn't thrown into disarray.

[Megan]

So it's. It's very, you know, it's old school, it's classic. Not everybody likes to keep things in their phone. But yes, I'm glad. Incredible perp mentioned this because we just dropped a new episode of Library Card. We talked about Daniel Mason's Northwood Great conversation. And that just dropped. And our next one will be in a few weeks, right? Actually, I think in like two weeks.

[RJ]

Yeah.

[Brian]

February 10th, right?

[Megan]

February 10th. Yeah. We're going to be talking about Clara and the Sun.

[Brian]

Claire and the Sun. She came out in 23, I want to say. And we all read at some point in the last year. And it's going to be a lively conversation. I'll tell you what. Very lively conversation.

[RJ]

It's going to be great. It's going to be great. Okay, everybody, have a great weekend. Enjoy Mexico if you're there. And if you are there, hope you're not watching this live, but maybe you're listening on your morning walk down the beach. But we'll see you all next week. Thanks for listening. Thanks, Megan. Thanks, Brian.

[Megan]

Thanks everybody.

[Brian]

Sa.

[Megan]

Osiris.

[Brian]

Every listener to too much effing perspective knows that my co host Alan Keller is a music nerd. And right up there in his pantheon with the Beatles and Elvis Costello is the Clash. So Alan, it's one thing for you to be a nerd, but how did you rope in a cool guy 311's Nick Heck into a full on Clash geek fest on our show?

[RJ]

Well, first of all, Alex, it was your idea.

[Brian]

Oh, right.

[Ben]

Second, Nick actually jammed with the Clash's Joe Strummer in a supergroup that included.

[RJ]

Flea and Tom Morello. Okay, well, there is that.

[Ben]

And finally, one member of the Clash cited this is Spinal Tap, the reason our show even exists as his favorite movie.

[Brian]

Which one?

[Ben]

Hey, if you want to find out, you gotta listen to Too Much Effing Perspective. That's Too Much Effing Perspective, the only.

[RJ]

Podcast you crank up to 11.

[Brian]

Hello.

[RJ]

Tom May here, host of Future Friday. I've spent the last 15 years on the road with my band, the Menzingers, where I've met all kinds of wild and fascinating people. So I started a podcast on Future Friday. I talked to fellow musicians about the moments that made them their passions outside of music, and the curiosities that tie us all together. I've also talked to the likes of UFO researchers, magicians, soldiers and documentary filmmakers. And I'm constantly searching for folks that can shape and change our view of the world. You can check out Future Friday wherever you like.