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- [00:03]
Sunset Lake CBD
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- [01:04]
Jack Welch Management Institute
The Jack Welch Management Institute at Strayer University helps you go from I know the way to I've arrived with our top 10 ranked online MBA. Gain skills you can learn today and apply tomorrow. Get ready to go from make it happen to made it happen and keep striving. Visit strayer.edu Jack Welchmba to learn more. Strayer University is certified to operate in Virginia by Chevin at many campuses including at 2121 15th Street north in Arlington, Virginia.
- [01:36]
Osiris
Osiris.
- [01:53]
RJ
Hey everybody, it's RJ. I'm here with a special episode. I'm here with my friend Dusty Rich, co founder of Cash or Trade and the Face Value Ticket movement. They have a lot of stuff cooking and we've had Dusty and Brando and we've had Cash or Trade as part of Osiris and the show many times but we wanted to bring them in because they have a bunch of stuff going on. We wanted to tell tell you all about it and make sure that you all knew. Hey Dusty, how's it going man?
- [02:17]
Dusty Rich
I'm doing great.
- [02:19]
RJ
Thank you for all you've done for the for the Face Value ticket community. What's going on with Cash or Trade? What's the main thing that people need to know at this point that we.
- [02:29]
Dusty Rich
Just announced the launch of cash or.
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Brando
Trade 4.0, the new application at the.
- [02:34]
Dusty Rich
Intix Conference in Manhattan and Brando was featured on Bloomberg TV announcing the Face Value ticket movement to the world. But before I get into the new.
- [02:44]
Brando
App and address some of the questions of the old app and trades and ISOs and things of that nature. Let me give us a quick update of the origin story of Cash or Trade and what we're doing to build this face value ticket movement and disrupt the industry. So Brando and I, we, you know, we grow up in southern New Hampshire. We're brothers, me, my brother and sister. We get involved listening to bootleg tapes of Fish in the early 90s. We see our first show at UNH Field House in 93 where fish blows our socks off with, you know, have Mercy. First time ever played. And then funky. They just finished a 70 show tour, you know, and, you know, Fish was working hard and we caught them play, you know, 93, 94 New Year's where they come down with scuba suits from the ceiling and play this lyricalist down with disease online. Zion Tease. It was the best jam I've ever heard in my life. It still is. And you know, as the band is evolving, we're. We're growing up and we're watching this happen and roll out. We go to 94 Great woods and see them play Gamehenge into 95. They come out at a benefit show, Lowell Memorial and drop Spock's Brain and Flip Glide two. First time ever played. Strange Design, amazing night. And continue down the road into 95. 96. They fly over the Boston Garden in the hot dog. 97 Hampton. They're, you know, coming out with, you know, getting jiggy with it, some crazy stuff. We're like, this is amazing. Watching the band evolve into again, Boston Garden playing Julius for this first time, totally, you know, blowing our minds from like, wait, you know, we just went from my friend to don't take another step. Like, what? It was awesome to see the band evolve and stretch into these different genres of music. And as they grew, you know, we saw them break into MSG. You know, it's a long way from the UNH field house and they play, you know, 1999 Princes and then we see them play in Brooklyn with Jay Z and you know, the band is just evolving and blowing up. And they were a huge part of our lives. This is before the Internet. They were the save the date to pull our family and friends across the country together and create this, like, magical experience that, you know, you couldn't get anywhere. And we all know the story. 2004 rolls around. Trey announces the band breakup. We're devastated. And there's this digital transformation from 2004 to 2009. All of ticketing had gone online. We used to buy tickets through the Doniac Chevice and Mail order. And that was no longer. And brokers and scalpers were, you know, manipulating the market, selling tickets for $3,000. And me and Brando are like, oh, all right. We're activists, we live in Vermont. We have a little web design company that we started. You know, let's create a solution for the fans. Something that embodied the parking lot where fans were walking around with their finger in the air saying cash or trade for your extra to get, buy, sell and trade tickets face value. So we set up the tent, we rallied fans around this idea and we started building this little makeshift website. It's like a bulletin board, Craigslist matched with the reviews of ebay and some socialists of Facebook and you know, created this thing. And it started to blow up. And more and more fans are signing up and coming up to me and Brand will like, this is awesome. You know, keep it going. And so now let's fast forward 10 years. So over the 10 years, Brando and I are spending nights, weekends, holidays, working in wee hours in the morning and trying to build this awesome thing for the fans and ourselves and it's making no money and it can't afford to even keep us. And I have to leave and go to Ben and Jerry's and find a new job where my claim to fame was naming two flavors. Freezer, reprise and it's ice. You know, my claim to fame at Ben Jerry's. And all this time Brando's trying to keep this thing online. It's incurring costs. We're talking about push notification servers, anti fraud tools. And you know, the utility to run this thing is, you know, we're just pulling out of our pocket. We try to create a gold membership to actually infuse some funds to keep this thing going. And Brando tries to hire on a dev to help him keep it going. 2019 raises a little capital and then covet hits live events, shut down, doesn't know what to do. Brandon's trying to keep this thing up with building streams or marketplace, not sure if events are coming back. And then raises a little bit more capital, hires on. Now we have a team of 30 music loving professionals who are invested in to cash or trade and want to see this thing grow. And Brando, you know, offers me a job. Dusty, come back. You know, I think we can finally afford to hire you and, and me. So because he built in the escrow service. Well now this is not just like a bulletin board where somebody can just take your money and go and have support, try to chase you down. We Were like, we need to take payments in house to protect the fans and create an escrow service which obviously has cost money. So we instituted the 10% fee for non gold members to make this thing sustainable so we can grow it and, and keep it free to sellers and the only platform that is strictly face value. So as we're trying to build this now, we've outgrown the old app, we can't build on the old app anymore, and we needed to start building an entirely new framework. And that's where cash or trade 4.0 comes in.
- [08:41]
RJ
And you guys have come a long way. I know there's a lot of change that's happened in the past year or two. What do fans need to know about where you're going next? Especially those of us who are cash or trade users.
- [08:53]
Dusty Rich
Sure. Where we're headed and the ultimate goal, yes, of course, is scoring a Bill Graham floor ticket right now. But beyond that, we're building something much bigger. We're on a mission to create a scalable face value alternative that can support millions of events worldwide while staying true to our roots. And a big part of this is.
- [09:12]
Brando
Working with the primary ticketing companies that.
- [09:15]
Dusty Rich
We'Ve built an API integration that allows.
- [09:18]
Brando
Us to verify the face value of.
- [09:20]
Dusty Rich
A ticket instead of relying on our flagging tool. So you will hear announcements for partnerships with ticketing companies in the coming weeks. These integrations, they'll also allow you to transfer your ticket to another fan without leaving cash or trade and do it.
- [09:36]
Brando
Right within the platform so you won't.
- [09:38]
Dusty Rich
Have to go to the primary. And then the next one is blowing up. These artists and venue partnerships, which will provide a huge influx in new inventory by being an event's preferred resale solution. So at the end of the day, it's all about getting into the show.
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Brando
Right?
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Dusty Rich
So more tickets on the platform will do that. We've got a long list of new features coming, but before I dive into those, I want to reassure fans that all of the features that you love are coming back. Of course, trades and messaging before purchasing and the social tools.
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Brando
It's just version one for 4.0 and.
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Dusty Rich
We'Re rolling it out in a step by step process like we did in the early days, working directly with the community to shape the best possible experience. So anyone who still wants the old setup, Legacy.CasherTrade.org is still live and running.
- [10:28]
Brando
So you can keep using those features while we continue to evolve the platform.
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RJ
Awesome. Thanks for filling us in on that and for all that work. I know it's been a I know it's been a long time coming and I know that people who listen to HFPOD will know that Matt Dwyer, who is a longtime co host and who actually helped us really bring this podcast into the future, sound wise and technology wise, has been helping cash or trade for the last couple years, which is exciting.
- [10:52]
Dusty Rich
It's all he has been remarkable in helping our product and moving and progressing it forward.
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RJ
I was gonna ask you next, what are you most excited about from a fan perspective and you know, from, from the JO that you've been on about this?
- [11:07]
Dusty Rich
Honestly, it's exciting to finally have a platform where we can build the features we know will enhance the experience. So one of the biggest additions is the ticket wallet, and that's a central place to store all your ticket purchases whether you have an extra or not. So this will also integrate with the Cash or Trade friend network so you can easily see what shows your friends are going to. You know, life gets busy right now and I have no idea what shows my friends across the country might be interested in so or if I want to join them. So better social integrations are huge focus. We're also making big improvements to the purchase process, things like automatic counts and smart automations to prevent listings from piling up with like over a hundred offers or staying open for too long. In the inbox, you'll have a better sorting tool so you can easily see offers from friends and extended networks and trusted members. So on the back end, we're reimagining our banking system payout so faster transfers based on fan trust levels. We're also investing in better fraud detection tools to keep bad actors off the platform. And of course speed is a key. So we're rolling out more servers and more efficient frameworks to keep everything just lightning fast. But what I'm really excited about is these integrations for event holders, giving promoters and venues an easy way to offer the face value resale solution directly to their fans. And this helps them cut out the scalpers, reduce the fraud, and keep the tickets in the hands of real fans instead of dealing with the overpriced resale market. So it's all about making the experience smoother, safer and more connected for the entire live music community.
- [12:50]
RJ
That's great. And I guess, you know, we've all experienced the trouble with ticketing in some way or another. But why? Why? What's your kind of argument to fans about why they should, you know, be going to cash or trade to get to get tickets when there are, you know, so many options out there in terms of resale platforms. I mean, obviously it's the face value, but like, I, I feel like it's like the face value part, of course, and it's the community part.
- [13:18]
Dusty Rich
Well, that's simple. If you're a fan who wants to support other fans and people actually putting on the event, then you use cash or trade. And if you rather support brokers and platforms that drain money from the industry and take advantage of fans, then the old predatory resale model is still out there. So, of course, then there's the economics to consider. Cash or Trade is the only resale.
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Brando
Platform that is free to sell.
- [13:43]
Dusty Rich
It's strictly face value and pays out before the event and offers a gold member subscription for $4 a month. And if a fan chooses not to subscribe, there's the 10 platform contribution offering the escrow and the insurance program for full protection. It's the lowest in the industry on a face value ticket.
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RJ
Thanks for, thanks for sharing that. So. All right, so let's talk about Fish, because this is a Fish podcast, after all.
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Dusty Rich
Right.
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Brando
Right.
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RJ
You're in Vermont, Right. When was Your first show?
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Dusty Rich
May 8, 1993.
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RJ
That's crazy. We, we did a series last year, the 4040 for 4040 years. I'm pretty sure we did that show for 93. If we didn't, it was definitely like the, we've covered it on the podcast before. It's an epic show. And actually we talked to Brad Sands about that show on Undermine, because it was just, it was like a, that was kind of a seminal moment in Fish history. What do you think the, the future looks like for cash or trade? Like, where, where do you guys want to go with this? What do you want the future of ticketing to look like? And how's cash for trade?
- [14:44]
Dusty Rich
Part of that, I would say really leaning into the partnerships and integrations. So partnerships with the venues, partnerships with the artists. The artists make it commonplace where they tell their fans, hey, if you can't make the show and, or if you have a ticket for one night and you don't for another, and you need to make a trade and you need to sell your ticket and you need to get your money back and you want to help another fan plug into casual trade. We're partnered with cashier trade. It's a fully protected system and they help promote it to their communities as well as primary ticketing companies who then offer to all of their event holders to say, hey, we have a suite of tools and one of them is plugging into the face value movement, which will help foster your brand that aligns with the fans and the fair trade ticketing. And this is just the right thing to do and this is the way that we can actually affect change. Now we are on the steering committee for neva, the national Association, Independent Venues association, for lobbying for legislation for the Fans first act and to try to pass legislation on against speculative ticketing, which is brokers listing tickets. They don't have deceptive URLs, them buying URLs and coming up in Google above the ticketers. And we are working on legislation to help fix some of these problems. But as we all seen, as much as government helps in some ways, you know, in social programs and whatnot, really the powers in the people and in the consumer and how they vote. And I think that no movement is this of any one thing. It's the sum of all its parts. So it's about building the face value movement globally.
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RJ
That's awesome. Thank you. Thanks for, for laying that out and appreciate you coming on on the podcast. For those of you listening, of course, go to CA trade.org to find out more. And Dusty, thanks so much.
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Brando
Thank you rj.
- [17:01]
Dusty Rich
I appreciate it and thank you for what you do for the community and I look forward to working together. So embrace the face, folks. Thank you.
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Osiris
Osiris. I don't think it overstates things to say that the Beatles were the greatest gift to entertainment and culture of our time, a secular religion, if you will, with their universal appeal and demonstrable impact on people's lives. I'm Robert Rodriguez, host of Something about the Beatles. With every episode, I speak with historians, musicians, artists and Beatle witnesses, all in the service of fresh insights into the most joyous cultural entity the world has ever known. I hope you'll join me and listen to something about the Beatles now at Evergreen and wherever you get your podcasts.
- [19:03]
Finn McEntee
What's up, everybody? I am Finn McEntee, host of the Punk Rock NBA podcast, part of the Sound Talent Media Podcast Network. My podcast is all about doing what you love for a living. And every week I sit down and talk to people who have done exactly that. For example, musicians like Tommy from Between the Buried Me, Matt from Periphery, Lil Lotus, and Shinigami, among many others. Photographers, artists, designers, YouTubers like Glenn Fricker and Saradechi. And I unpack exactly how they got to where they are today with the goal of helping you do the same. So if that sounds cool, you can listen and subscribe at soundtalentmedia. Com and I'll see you there.