Brian (2:10)

Is this the last Fish run before Goose became a household name?

Ryan (2:16)

No, I mean, it was fish Summer Tour 2019.

Megan (2:21)

Oh.

Brian (2:21)

I guess Peach was right after.

Ryan (2:23)

Yeah, peach was 2019. July.

Brian (2:25)

Okay. I mean, but we're like, We're. We're reaching the tail end. This is the. The end of the era where there is fish as a jam band. Spafford people are talking about, but okay, there's no Goose. There's no Eggy on the radar. No, we're.

Megan (2:42)

We're.

Brian (2:42)

We're well beyond the. Oh, my God. Younger, newer jam bands that are encroaching on our lives. What's going on here? It's a pretty incredible time to think back on.

RJ (2:53)

It's before the jam band Illuminati, you know, kicked things off.

Ryan (2:57)

I was also in my first year of university when this run happened.

Megan (3:02)

Wow. That is. Okay, we're going to get to the context. Yeah, we're going to talk about 2018. We're going to talk about, like, late 2018. We got to talk about all kinds of stuff. Context is everything, as we say often here. But first. Okay, so next week, we're premiering the. The new series Mount Rushmore. We have one more week for you guys to send us your thoughts about your favorite four versions of bathtub gin. Go to osirispod.com rushmore and fill out the. Fill out the form. I have a bunch of work to do, Brian. I know I promised that I would take all the responses and put them into something that we could then use, which I haven't done yet because I'm waiting for everyone to submit. Because why? Why do it before all the results are in? That's just going to mess up.

Brian (3:47)

I mean, these. These late entries are just going to be like, can I vote for the Riverport Gin six times? You know, like, come on, I'm sitting over here. I'm like, six Mount Rushmore episodes ahead. I got another draft. Like, what are we doing? Come on.

RJ (4:02)

Bragging. The bragging.

Ryan (4:04)

Slacking.

Megan (4:05)

I know Brian and Megan, Brian and Megan both think that, like, doing the prep for the podcast is like, some kind of like. Like, competition. And I'm just, you know, I'm just happy to be here with my friends. So I don't. You guys. You know.

Ryan (4:18)

You guys ever seen that video of that? Like, he's like, some, like, fitness influencer, but he talks about, like, I split my day into three days. And, like, you know, in a year, like, I'm, you know, every day I have three days and then a week, I'm way ahead. A month. I'm way ahead. And I feel like that's. Brian.

Megan (4:33)

Yeah.

Ryan (4:35)

You're not even on the same planet in terms of prep, Brian. It's funny, for the amount that you do that, you still lose it to Megan in every draft.

Brian (4:42)

You know, that's a. That's a touchy, touchy subject.

RJ (4:45)

Really touchy subject.

Brian (4:47)

We've had, like, team meetings about this. I think of another fitness enthusiast who once said that every time I get to that last set, it's like, girls see my muscles. I won't continue any Further. But, you know, I get it out.

Ryan (5:00)

I wanted to hear the Schwarzenegger impression.

Megan (5:01)

Okay, so same. I listened to the first bathtub gin today. So I'm. I'm right in line with Brian there. Ready to go.

Ryan (5:11)

You know our days. We podcast about. We did a podcast about bathtub gin a number of years ago.

Megan (5:18)

We did.

Ryan (5:18)

Fun tidbit.

Megan (5:19)

We did. Oh, my God. How long ago was that?

Ryan (5:22)

That was four years ago now, I think.

Megan (5:24)

Yeah.

Brian (5:24)

Which bathtub gin?

Ryan (5:26)

The Magna Gin and Riverport, I believe were the two that we talked about.

Brian (5:31)

Oh, oh, oh.

RJ (5:33)

Now we have a hint into what RJ is going to have on his list.

Megan (5:36)

Well, I mean, I think anyone who's listened to this podcast ever, I think I talk about it every. Almost every. Almost.

Brian (5:43)

That's your 725.99.

Megan (5:45)

Yeah, it is. I still think it's really great. Okay, so we have Reprise shows coming up, guys. And I know you all know this, but maybe not everyone does. So this week, actually, Reprise is playing at the Met in Pawtucket, Rhode Island. And then next week we got Worcester, Saratoga, New York, and New Hope, Pennsylvania. We're going to be on tour next week. I'm going to be on tour next week for part of it. And then in the end of March, they're playing at Killington in Killington, Vermont, at the Pickle Barrel, which is a famous, famous venue up there. And then we have April shows. Burlington, Broadbrook, Connecticut, and Northampton. 17th, 18th, 19th of April, go to repriseband.com. we. We're. I'm excited to get out there, guys. These guys are, like, working their asses off getting ready. So if you. If you don't have tickets, get some. Get some tickets. That's all I have to say about Reprise. I hope you guys are going to go at some point.

Brian (6:40)

Some outstanding shows coming up. I. Yeah, I would love to be there. I would just say that. Amazing, amazing show recreations here. We got to get into Colorado, rj. That's all I'm going to say.

Megan (6:54)

Yes.

Ryan (6:54)

So Canada.

Brian (6:55)

I know, I know you're waiting for me to do it all, but, you know, we just got to get them out of here.

Megan (7:00)

That's not. That's not how it works, Brian. You got to just do it. Okay. All right. So before we get into it, we do have some voicemails. Our friends, our listeners, our amazing listeners have left us kind of a variety of voicemails this week, actually. So we have a couple we're going to share. I'm going to share two, and then we're going to share one at the end. So if you. If you're the person who, who did the third one about Mount Rushmore, you'll have to wait until the end to hear your own voicemail because we're going to use it to set up the set up next week's episode. All right, let's. Let's listen to this first one. This is, this is a reflection on our round table we did last week, and I wanted.

RJ (7:37)

Oh, nice.

Megan (7:38)

I wanted you guys all to hear it because I think it's helpful to hear, like, some feedback on these questions we're talking about.

Jeremy (7:48)

Hey, Maddie P. Here calling to give some thoughts on the President's Day episode. You guys touched on something that's always been really important to me as a music fan in the sense, and that's how the seasons play a role in my listening and how certain shows and albums can bring imagery and conjure up a season or a feeling of a particular season. Brian's comment about Beach House's Team Dream album is sort of similar to how I feel about, say, Pygmalion by Slow Dive. The imagery it brings to mind, the music sort of creates its own atmosphere and sort of reflects certain imagery in a season. RJ mentioned Led Zeppelin, and that kind of reminded me how I feel about listening to Pink Floyd. They're sort of a fall winter listen and not likely going to make the cut for a day at the beach in July. Create this music, their art, and we can experience it and interpret it and connect it to Seasons in our own way. And I just think that's such an amazing part of being a fan. Bye.

Megan (9:17)

All right, so that's it on that one. Ryan, what kind of music are you listening to in the winter? Or what kind of goose are you listening to in the winter versus the summer?

Ryan (9:27)

I was going to say, we all know what kind of music I'm listening to, and it's not anything other than jam bands. Um, this winter I've been listening to a lot of Goose and a lot of Fish. Um, that might be surprising.

RJ (9:40)

Um, no shit. Really?

Ryan (9:42)

I know. Crazy.

RJ (9:43)

Wow, that's wild.

Megan (9:44)

All prepping for this, right?

Ryan (9:47)

Yes. Oh, yes, definitely.

Brian (9:48)

Yeah.

Megan (9:49)

Yeah. You gotta have the context, so you gotta. Gotta listen to everything.

Ryan (9:51)

Okay. Where goose winter tour 2025 is very. To contextualize fish. Mexico 2019.

Megan (9:58)

Yeah, yeah. Hey, goose. Goose winter 2020.

Brian (10:01)

I think there's an argument that can be made there.

Ryan (10:04)

I'm sure there is. You can draw, you can drive, right?

Megan (10:07)

Brian can do it. I think I just Wish that. I just wish the tour was longer. Wish it was still going.

Ryan (10:13)

You and me both.

Megan (10:13)

Yeah, that's my only complaint.

Brian (10:15)

Me too.

Megan (10:16)

You know, we're all there. Okay. All right, let's listen to one more voicemail. This is about the album draft. There is a lot here to unpack, so you guys are going to have to. You guys are going to have to get ready for this one.

Ryan (10:26)

Oh, boy.

Megan (10:27)

Yeah, boys, right? Okay, here we go. No one sets the stage like hf. I'm nervous.

Brian (10:32)

Oh, boy.

Megan (10:33)

Come on, it's fine.

Caller (10:39)

What's up, guys? This is Jeremy, RJ's buddy from Sunday Morning Hoops. Just wanted to say that at first I was proud to be mentioned on your fine podcast. I sent the link out all my friends and family to boast my fame. But now I'm starting to feel like maybe because with that mention, because I haven't even once scored all 11 points in a game since then. But that's okay. I've been working on my passing and mid range fade away as RJ may remember from last week. Okay.

Megan (11:11)

So I gotta pause it there to give some context because this is important, Brian, you'll understand. And I don't know if anyone. If you other guys will, but. All right, Brian. So this guy Jeremy is like. I don't know. I never knew him when he was young, but I assume when he was young he was one of those guys who like hit every shot that he took. And now he's my age and he still hits most shots. So, you know, I'm usually like, I'm taller than him, right? So I'm usually matched up with someone taller. But the worst situation to be in in this pickup thing on Sundays is when someone screens or whatever, and then I see that I have to run over and try to get in front of Jeremy when he's about to shoot because I'm not going to get there. Andy's gonna make it. And then the other day, he's on the baseline, he's turned, turns around, jump shot right in front of me and switches it and the game's over. And it was a sad moment. But that's just some context for you guys.

Ryan (12:03)

Thank you.

Megan (12:04)

Brian, do you have any commentary?

RJ (12:05)

I understand that. Just, you know, I get that.

Megan (12:08)

Okay, thank you.

RJ (12:09)

I used to be a cheerleader for basketball, so I actually know quite a bit about basketball.

Megan (12:14)

Oh, I don't. I don't think I knew that. Yeah, I thought it was like a. I always thought the cheerleading was like, was football.

RJ (12:21)

We did both.

Ryan (12:22)

I feel like every sport had cheerleaders.

RJ (12:25)

All the good ones. Just kidding.

Megan (12:28)

Okay, all right, let's get to the album part here.

Caller (12:36)

But anyway, enjoyed listening to the album draft episode, but I do have a few bones to pick about some of the picks that were made or not made and the overall format that you guys use. So first of all, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Unless that opinion is that Round Room was the best studio album that Fish has ever released. I mean, come on, there are no less than four throwaway songs on this album that doesn't even include anything but me. All of these Dreams are the incredibly weird self titled track. I remember listening to Pebbles and Marbles and Walls of the Cave when those songs were released before the album and had so much optimism. But yeah, Round Room fell flat after that for me, pretty much. Secondly, I'm still trying to wrap my head around how Lawn Boy goes undrafted. You've got five of nine songs. More than 50% of that album consists of set two, jan vehicles or set closer type songs. And the recorded jams for Reba and Antelope alone should have made Lawn Boy a great pick for either the recorded jams category or the 1.0 albums. Big Miss by all of you. Now, regarding the format, I would have preferred and 2.0 to 4.0 categories to be kept to studio albums only. When you're asking voters to compare live fish like Slip Stitch and Pass the studio Fish, it's not really apples to apples. It's like me asking how was my fantasy football draft when I picked LeBron James to be my starting left fielder. And as for the recorded jams category, again, keep it to the studio album jams and maybe draft actual album tracks instead of entire albums. Since it's already too late with this draft, you can make up for it by doing a Mount Rushmore a studio album recorded Jams and see what you guys come up with. But in all seriousness, all seriousness, keep up the good work and keep cranking out the nerdy Fish content. It's confusing the hell out of my family when I'm listening and have it on while cleaning up for dinner. Take care guys. See you on the court on Sunday rj. Peace.

RJ (14:54)

Oh my gosh. That's great. I have so many feelings about that.

Megan (14:57)

Yeah, what's. What are your feelings? Go ahead.

RJ (15:00)

Well, my feelings are just I appreciate someone that's listening that thoughtfully and has so many good ideas for us. We love his Mount Rushmore studio recorded Jams draft. That's a real lot to say. But yeah, I Think it's really interesting because there's been a lot of talk online about how lawnvoy did not get drafted and. But when he was saying that there's a lot of songs on lawnvoy that are jam vehicles, they don't jam on the album. So that's, you know, we're talking about the album, not the potential of these songs. Although I would say that you did maybe draft evolve with that logic.

Megan (15:38)

Yeah, so true.

RJ (15:39)

Yeah. But that was a great, great voicemail. Thanks.

Megan (15:42)

It was a good voicemail. And round room being, you know, I don't know. Brian mysteriously disappeared right when. When. When the. I noticed that room was happening. But did you hear it, Brian?

Brian (15:55)

I did. Are you guys able to hear me?

Megan (15:57)

Yeah.

RJ (15:58)

Yeah.

Brian (15:58)

Okay. I was having, for the first time in months, Internet issues, coincidentally, as I was being raked over the flames.

Ryan (16:08)

Funny how that works.

Brian (16:10)

I will agree with all of these Dreams. I don't think that's a very strong song. I'm really not sure about the anything but me opinion. I think that that's maybe the mid range shot wasn't dropping that day and he was feeling really tense. I don't know. Round Room as like a not good Fish song. I think it's one of Fish's best songs that they just strangely don't play, which never really made any sense to me. I don't know.

Megan (16:36)

Yeah, there's a 2.0. There's a 2.0 thing.

RJ (16:39)

You know, I love that album.

Megan (16:42)

That's part of it.

RJ (16:43)

You do because it came.

Megan (16:45)

Yeah.

Brian (16:46)

My thoughts about the last draft are complex and deeply emotional and unhinged in a lot of cases. So we'll just leave it at that. Yeah, we'll say there's an outstanding 2.0 album that I probably should have taken first, but kind of thought I could hang around until round two or three just based on historical trends around the album's appreciation, but I was wrong. Sometimes people get really aggressive. You know, they cut you at the knees and then you gotta fight with no feet and you gotta fight with like these little hooves. Like that happened in, like, the Middle ages. Oh, my God. Have any of you guys seen the Last Duel? Like, maybe I should have, like, fought a little bit more aggressively. I don't know.

RJ (17:32)

This is where, like, I actually don't want to get into this because I am nervous about having this kind of an argument. But I will say, Brian, that like, if you say. If you say that an album is not super popular with everybody, but then that is the album that forced me to win. It's very confusing. Like that logic just doesn't work for me. Like if I don't think that that.

Brian (17:52)

Album forced you to win or caused.

RJ (17:54)

Me to win, I should say no.

Brian (17:56)

I think. And Neil, God save Neil. The greatest mediator of this entire chat.

RJ (18:02)

Why? What did he say?

Brian (18:03)

Neil texted the thread I have with Ryan and Justin 10 minutes after the results came in and said, how in the hell did Megan get away with Hunter Rift and one other non victor disc album? I'm blanking on. What? Actually, I have it right here.

RJ (18:20)

I drove nectar and I got the white tape.

Brian (18:22)

Yeah, yeah. And he was just like, how did you guys let her get away with that? And I was like, good point in context. But like, I think that's what got you to win. You got like the classic 1.0 that like everybody loves these albums.

Ryan (18:34)

Yeah.

Brian (18:34)

If you had gotten Lawn Boy, oh my God, like people couldn't have voted you any faster. I think if I can weigh in.

Ryan (18:41)

Really quickly on said same thread leading up to the the draft, Brian had been saying how excited he was to take the victor discover that was like all he wanted out of the draft.

RJ (18:52)

Why didn't you take it first?

Ryan (18:54)

That's what I'm, that's what I'm saying. Like he kind of.

Brian (18:56)

Because I was, I was afraid that. I was afraid round room was going to get taken to which Megan then said by you. And Megan said, I could never take that from you. So. So I don't know what we're. Up is down. Down is up.

RJ (19:10)

I just tell you the first.

Brian (19:12)

Hold on, hold on. Last thing. Last thing. I was the worst spot on the draft. There's no excuse. I should have taken Victor Dis first. But I was the worst spot on the draft. You get. No, you're like, I got every pick really matters. It sucks. And you know, it is what it is. I fucking hate the drafts. But I just built a new one yesterday and I'm so excited for us to do it.

Megan (19:31)

I couldn't.

RJ (19:32)

I will say, like, I, I know you love Round Room. Like, I know that's your favorite studio album. So I would not have taken that. And I know that you think I would have because you think I'm this cold hearted snake who just like goes into like kill you at every draft. But I, you know, I'm just playing with the strategy that I've set out for myself and I'm.

Brian (19:51)

Well, I have no idea that you like the 9. 1499. I have no idea. This is Sherman.

RJ (20:01)

I love how If. If, like, if someone was playing to win a game. Because that's what this is, right? This is a competition. Right? I'm just kind of wondering about that. Or is it actually just to make a list of our favorites and. And everybody, like we people vote on our favorites. No, it's a competition. I'm sorry that, you know, I'm able to use the snake trap so effectively. I've only won one more than each of you.

Brian (20:25)

Just FYI, everyone asking questions in here about, you know, how am I okay? I'm great. This is why I still block my son's layups every chance I get a chance to.

Megan (20:39)

I couldn't possibly, honestly, I could not possibly be happier with the albums that I got. And I'm still, like, I'm still writing.

RJ (20:46)

So happy.

Megan (20:47)

I'm so happy because I got the best albums. It's great. I don't care if you guys don't know that. What do we do now? We're listening to Fish fans. Come on.

Brian (20:54)

All right, good point, rj.

RJ (20:56)

Yeah, it's true. It's true.

Ryan (20:57)

I gotta say, I appreciate every time I come on HF Pod. It puts in perspective how efficient always almost there actually is.

Brian (21:06)

You record three hours of 45 minute long podcast.

Ryan (21:11)

It's on topic.

Brian (21:13)

I do just want to add because I just looked back at the results. One of my favorite moments of the entire episode was when I was so excited to draft Caswell Vox and the two of you could not have cared any less. And you know what? Go fuck yourselves. Yeah, it's amazing.

RJ (21:29)

One of the best written albums of all time. That was what you Fish albums. Even so, with the asterisks, I still.

Brian (21:40)

Question 100%, what are you talking about? We are come to outlive our clouds.

RJ (21:46)

Come on.

Brian (21:48)

It has a.

Ryan (21:49)

We are come to Divided sky best written song.

RJ (21:55)

Oh, my God.

Megan (21:56)

Also, Brian.

RJ (21:56)

I'm just glad we can talk about it, Brian, because for a little bit, it was a little touchy there and I was nervous. So I hope that we can move forward in good sportsmanship to our next draft.

Brian (22:07)

You've got like 375 shows you're going to have to listen to before the next draft. So I'm just going to.

Ryan (22:14)

Yeah.

Megan (22:14)

I think all these takes, Brian, out of all your takes, the fact that you think that Round Room is one of Fish's best songs is maybe the most. The biggest head scratcher of them all. But we got to move on to the episode.

Brian (22:26)

We can move on if you're. If you're gonna make an under episode. If you're gonna make an undercut, like Twitter, you know, jab like that. Let me put my. My comment into full context here. One of. Could encompass like 75 songs. What do you. I. I didn't say it's like a top.

Megan (22:47)

Song written.

Brian (22:48)

It is one of the best.

Megan (22:50)

One of the Fish songs that has been written. Yes, that too.

Brian (22:54)

That's a good point as well.

Ryan (22:56)

I'm gonna go down the middle here and say that it's. It's a good song, but maybe the last one we all heard was 12, 28, 24, which. That's why we don't like it.

Brian (23:04)

Nobody should listen.

RJ (23:05)

Yeah, that's true.

Ryan (23:08)

Ryan, can we forget that show happen?

RJ (23:10)

I would like to. Yeah.

Brian (23:13)

All right, they're gone.

Megan (23:15)

So let's talk about. Let's talk about the context here. So speaking of Casper Box, we have. We got Halloween 2018, segue works. And then we got. We got New Year's Eve 2018. That's what we got before this. Before this Mexico run, which is. Which is helpful, I think, once you listen to the run, to kind of set it up. But, Ryan, why, first of all, why. In. In briefly, please. Why this run? Why is this so fascinating to you?

Ryan (23:40)

This. This comes at a time for me that was like, right in the thick of me starting to really analyze everything that Fish was doing. I think I kind of gained the ability to start properly analyzing the music in fall 2018. And that's also a reason why I love that tour so much. I started listening to every single show that they were playing, like, every note of it in. In summer of 2017. So before that, I had only heard, like, highlights, whatever. But summer 17, I started being like, okay, I'm listening to every single show, you know, not gonna do this anymore. And so I was also. When Mexico 2019 happened, I. I mentioned it earlier, but, like, I. I was in my first year of university, so, you know, previously I had been obviously younger and not as connected to everything, but 2018 was like, I started live streaming every single show. Like, I. I stayed up, you know, until 3:00 in the morning for the whole Vegas 2018 run, watching the live streams. So it's like very committing. Committing myself to this a lot. And I think that's why I like the improv of this era of Fish a lot. And I think that this Mexico 2019 run is really interesting because it comes as kind of an extension of the fall 2018 sound. But you're starting to hear what's going to happen in 2019. Because even with the amount of slop that there is in 2018, this Mexico run is much closer to how much even sloppier 2019 was by. By comparison. And I. I think this is also. This is the last run where Paige has the Moog Voyager synth, which was a big change when he got the Moog one in 2019, which obviously has been such a big part of his sound for the past almost six years now.

Brian (25:26)

When did the Voyager come in?

Ryan (25:28)

The Voyager came in summer 17. So that was the kind of like the sound of the Baker's Dozen.

Brian (25:31)

That's what set up the Baker's Dozen. And then he got rid of that, went to the Moog One in middle of 2019. Okay, cool.

Ryan (25:38)

Yeah. Summer 2019, the Moog One debuted. And then, you know, obviously he locked himself in a room with it during the Pandemic and came back playing it completely differently. But. Yeah, so this is the last run with the Voyager. And I think it's very clear listening to. Even if you listen to the first set of 221 19, it's very clear that. That Paige and fishman are the MVPs of this run. Like, Mike is obviously playing really well. I will say definitely listening back, he's not as like, I think he. He and Paige were the number ones of fall 2018. I would say that he's probably a number three out of the four of them. Yeah. In. In this Mexico run. But it's really. It's really Paige that. That elevates so many of the jams here. And I. I love some of the spaces that they hit. And, you know, we'll talk about it when we talk about specific jams. But I think, to me, it's. The improv is so compelling to me because you have that fall 2018 sound, but you also have its fish. And so they're already trying to move beyond that and find some new things. And I. I think that there's a lot to talk about here.

Megan (26:43)

I think if you can point out some of the. Like, when we talk about the jams, where that synth sound kind of, you know, is. Which I assume. I think I know what you're talking about. But. Yeah, the big. The big kind of point to me listening back was the page, like Paige carrying it forward. Like Mike was not playing as dynamically as he is today, of course, but not even as dynamically as I think he was like in, I guess, maybe 21, when. When he kind of started to step forward a little bit more. But it was more like Mike and Fish driving everything, which I think is. Is really cool. And it's so. It's so loose, it's so open, all this jamming. And I think that's partially because Trey is not super upfront either. It's just. It's very like. It's cool. It's like, way more like experimental kind of jazz sounding to me than. Than a lot of. A lot of other Fish that I've listened to more recently. Brian, what's your. What was your big takeaway listening to it?

Brian (27:40)

Well, I have two, because. Yes, for one, I give you two, and one is getting very broad. I think that, you know, there's an interesting. If you think about this in context, you think about the early part of 3.0, you kind of had this pattern of a really strong tour or a really strong segment of shows would then immediately be followed by kind of a reset. And that reset would usually be kind of like a retreat to, let's just play the songs, and let's just play the songs really well, and we'll kind of build setlist with good songs kind of in a weird order. Not a ton of jamming, just kind of a hint of it. And you would have these little moments like fall 2010 and then parts of summer 2011 and summer 12 and fall 13, and then summer and fall 2014. And it kind of dipped for the last time in summer 2016, I feel like. And you can make this argument that from Dick's 2016 to Mexico 2019 was this elongated, sustained peak of Fish. There are certainly some outlier moments and outlier shows that are just not very, you know, not. Not up to par. But, like, overall, you've got a really strong fall 16 run, a great MSG run, a really good Mexico run. The Baker's dozen fall 2018, as Ryan has mentioned, obviously huge parts of summer 2018 are just filled with massive jams and really good set lists. The Halloween run was great in Vegas. New Year's Eve was extremely strong with just an outstanding 1229 and 1230. And then you have this. And after this, the remainder of 2019 is extremely hit or miss. It feels like kind of a pullback to the earlier part of 3.0, where we were kind of getting into a reset mode. And so when I listen to this, I think a lot about where we're at with Fish today and how much I think the pandemic benefited them, that you can kind of hear them at the end of the line of a lot of ideas and a lot of connection points and a lot of set listing choices and variety and surprises that had come back and started to feel a lot more normal. In quotes, you know this like, anything can be played, Anything can happen. I mean, this first show of the run, it's an 81 show gap average. Like we have just gigantic bust outs that nobody would have ever expected to hear again. Really long jams and really unique places. But then the other side, as I was listening to it, is a band that I really wonder was, was it that they had lost some interest in the Fish project or was it that their schedules were just super busy at this point in time? Trey's doing Ghost the Forest. Mike's band is going kind of crazy. I think that this was when Fishman had a lot of issues going on at home and also had. He was in the state congress page pages of Ida Blue reunion. Like, it almost feels like they're at a point where they just kind of have to play a gig. And so they play a gig and they show up and they give you what they do best, which is shock value, surprises and jams, but not necessarily at their best. And so those two kind of competing thoughts kept going back through my. To my head as I listened through this.

Ryan (31:14)

That's, that's a really interesting point. I hadn't really thought about the side project thing, but is 2019 the year of Fish with the most active side projects? Because I think it might be because you have Tab, you have Ghosts of the Forest, which involves Trey and Fishman. You have Vita Blue coming back. You have Mike Gordon band playing a lot of shows. And yeah, as you mentioned, Fishman also being in college.

RJ (31:36)

Yeah, there's a lot going on. There's like the Grammy Museum. There's like between me and my mind, Trey's got that movie coming out, right? Yeah, there's a lot going on this year.

Ryan (31:44)

Yeah. And so, yeah. And I mean, and your point about the pandemic as well, I think, you know, the longer, the further we are from that period. I think we're able to talk about it less in, you know, our personal experiences during that time and more from like just a strictly looking at Fish context. And you know, Trey has said in a ton of interviews, like, forcing himself to be locked in an apartment with his guitar, like, made him fall in love with playing the guitar game. And I, I don't. I think we've talked about this before. I don't know if we've talked about this on the podcast before. I'm sure you guys have. And I Know, we've all discussed it separately, but, like, I don't know where Fish is at in 2025 without that forced break and without Trey having to play guitar again, because that's the one weak point, really, in this Mexico 2019 run. Like, if you. If you plop down, like, even like 2023, 2024 trey in this run, it probably sounds significantly better because he's practicing now. He's playing now. There's still. It's still sloppy. But, like, you know, I texted you guys this morning. Like, in the 222 second set, he starts both Sanity and Walk Away in the wrong key. Right. But it's kind of a mess.

RJ (32:52)

Yeah, well, and I think also the other thing is that he's not just sloppy in the composition or playing in the wrong key. His jamming isn't great either. Like, he's not taking the lead. His guitar tone doesn't sound good. It's really fuzzy. He sounds like, uncommitted a lot of the time. And I think that's one thing that came. Came through for me really strongly. And I agree. Like, I was thinking about that a lot. Like, Trey needs to practice his guitar. That's what it sounds like to me. And, you know, he was. He was going through a lot. I think what he went through with his friend writing Ghost of the Forest was super emotional and also taking up a lot of his creative energy. You know, when you write something and make a piece of art like that, that is so emotional and so coming from your heart. And honestly, a way to survive such a traumatic event. I think that, you know, he was probably tapped out with Fish a little bit. And it's interesting to me the way that they try to kind of make up for being really sloppy and not playing as well as they could, which is to just have some fun. And I think the moments of this run that are really fun are when they're just being silly. Like, you think of the Martian monster at the end or Sanity, or they're playing bust outs to save themselves. You know, like, okay, let's play this bust out. And it's. You can hear them trying to do that. And I think it works at moments, but it's listening to it with 2024, 2025 fish ears, it's hard to listen to because Trey just. To me, he sounds so weak.

Brian (34:09)

Well, and I think that you make a really good point there. And I think it's something we should focus on as well, because we did not invite Ryan Storm on this podcast to shit on his idea. There are gen moments that we. I think we. We really. There are genuine moments that I think we all really liked about this. I think 1. The point you make, Meg, is like, there are a lot of runs that Fish has done throughout history, and especially throughout 3.0 and 4.0, where they're not feeling it or it's all not connecting or the jams aren't super impressive and they revert to, like, very standard set listing. And one of the things you get in this run throughout the entirety of it, it's. What makes it a real joy, is even if they're all not on the same page in terms of what key they should be playing in at the same time, or, like, you know, they're. They're just like, Trey's like. I literally don't know, like the next 30 bars, but you guys take it and I'll just kind of, like, play in the background. They are inserting big songs in really wild areas, and they're inserting bust outs in really cool areas. And they're kind of figuring out almost in the way that they had mastered in the early 90s, how their set list can advance the show forward if the improvisation. And this is not to say it's not there, but if it's not as, like, dynamic and strong in some cases. And I think we'll get into that, because I know you have. You have very specific thoughts on it, but.

Ryan (35:33)

Yeah.

Brian (35:33)

What do you think?

Megan (35:34)

Yeah. Well, first of all, I think you guys are being a little too hard on Trey in this. I mean, I don't think it's, like. It's not 2024 level in terms of his contributions, but I think the way that he uses the. Leslie, the way he uses his effects, the way he is, like, like, complementing what Paige is doing mostly through his. Through his effects more than his soloing, I think creates, like, a really cool and loose soundscape that I like. It's. It's spacey and watery and loose, and it's. I think it's, like, a lot of fun. But. But I don't disagree with everything that. That you guys are saying, but I do. I. I appreciate you guys mentioning Fishman. I just want to mention that the. The main state legislature is only in session for. For six months, and they don't, like, really do that much. So, like, I don't want to, like, take away from people public office, because it's a noble, noble cause.

Brian (36:22)

It is an interesting time for you to make this argument, rj. Michael. Well, would you like the main state legislature to write to you and tell you what they did last week? Is that what you're asking?

Megan (36:33)

They're watching. I'm just saying.

RJ (36:36)

Really?

Ryan (36:36)

Doge, they're gonna hear about it. They might not let him into Maine.

Megan (36:39)

But most state legislators are like, don't. You know, they're not in session very much. I just don't think, you know, maybe it's more like him running that general store. That seems harder than being in the main state legislature.

Brian (36:48)

That's a fair point.

RJ (36:49)

It seems harder.

Brian (36:50)

Yeah.

Megan (36:50)

Okay. Anyway, go ahead. R. Point about.

Ryan (36:52)

Yeah, your point about Trey's effects. This is. To me, this is like, the pinnacle of, like, you know, Trey obviously revamped his whole rig at the end of 2017, so you're a year removed from that. 2018 was full of trying new things and new effects and trying to dial in the amps that never quite really clicked. And this run is, like, the peak. If you look at what he has behind him on stage, like, this is the peak of, like, he has so much there. And if you go to Trey's guitar rig.com and read what was. Was there for Mexico 2019, and then you look at what he dialed back when they came back in the summer. Like, you know, here he is, like, two cabinets and, like, you know, miked up in so many different ways and, like, 80 different effects. And by summer, he's dialed it back to, like, one cabinet and less effects and stuff. So this is, like the. And. And honestly, this Leslie tone is, like, probably the biggest thing I miss about Trey from this era. I love.

Brian (37:47)

It's so unique to this era.

Ryan (37:49)

Like, this is all over 2018.

Brian (37:51)

Yeah. And I think my only issue, because I think you make a really good counterpoint there, RJ and Ryan. I'm wondering now if we invited the wrong Ryan on here. Maybe we needed to bring Ryan Chacheri on. No, but I think that the one thing I get hung up on is I really do like that the Leslie tone. I really like what he did in a lot of summer and fall 2018. And I think, like, the maximalist sound he's going for here, where there's not as much nuance. There's more like, I'm just going to blow you away with these, like, big, chunky chords that, like, mimic Page. That's a great way of putting it. I think the only thing I get lost on is it whereas today we get these varieties of, like, Trey goes to the synth pedal, and then he plays really quiet and really delicate, and then he finds a riff and it's a very simple and straightforward riff and it kind of allows the other guys to play around in a really cool way and it cuts through everything. This just feels sometimes like. Just like an onslaught of very chunky chords that are like rock and roll and danceable. They're. They're very like LCD sound system esque in a way. But it's almost one note after three shows that I don't even think he was doing in the fall. Like, there was a lot more weird experimentation in the fall, like the Chicago Nomens. But that said, like, you guys are right. Like, he. It doesn't seem like it's as much he isn't practicing or didn't show up ready. It's more. He's trying something that isn't working gear wise and that is impacting the larger sound.

Megan (39:28)

Yeah.

RJ (39:28)

And that's interesting. I didn't realize that.

Ryan (39:30)

Sorry, Maggie.

RJ (39:31)

No, I was just going to say, like, I. I don't love this tone from him because I always just want to hear Trey play emotionally a lot of the time. And I appreciate. I think he's able to do that with effects now and balance it. Like you're saying Brian in a better way. But when I don't hear at like a crystal clear tone from Trey, like, ever, I start to feel like I'm just missing it. And I think that, like, these, to me, I. I'm interested to hear if you guys don't. I think he does sound unpracticed, but maybe I'm just not as like, good at detecting that. But to me, it just doesn't feel like he's. Yeah. Confident when he's jamming, which is a different, A different thing for him.

Ryan (40:06)

My. My biggest thing that I just want to respond to what Brian said there about kind of it being a maximalist sound. I hadn't really thought of this before, but I think a lot of the Mexico runs, especially in the last few years, you've gotten more like beach vibe jams. You know, I think about the Beneath the Sea of stars from 2020, the Carini from 2022, you know, even like the. The end of the Wave of hope from 2024. Like, you get this. This quieter, spaceier mode and there's none of that. I think the closest you get to that is like the, the spacey section of the tube, but it's still like foot to the floor tempo wise.

RJ (40:40)

Like, there's very high energy. Yeah.

Ryan (40:42)

There's no part of any of the biggest improvisational moments where it's not like, very propulsive. And you think of, like, how much sound is in all 26 minutes of this set your soul free and like, you know, the huge blasting peak of the Mercury and that. I always wanted it this way, right. Like they're not cooling down, like. And it's funny because one of the things that I know Brian and I, we've talked about a lot, but what we love about 2018 as a whole is the post peak jamming. And you get that a couple of times here, but this is when it starts to go away a little bit. You know, that had been. That had been such a big thing in the fall. Like, you know, they hit the peak and you know that they still have like 10 minutes left on the other side.

Brian (41:22)

There's like, weird. Yeah, I just had a really weird thought and I want to throw it to RJ to get his thoughts as well, because he's got very interesting thoughts on this that I was not prepared for. And that's the beauty of a man who doesn't show his cards before he podcasts or cares about draft results. You know, he just. He's here. He's here for the hangs and the good. God bless him, the good vibes guy. No, but 2019, like, the sound that we're talking about here almost peaks with that helico helicopter sounding effect that Trey finds in the Ruby Waves, but we're all talking about like maximalist aggressive, like, you know, balls of the wall, you know, jamming. Here were 10, 11 months away from like this most gorgeous 7 minutes the band has ever played in the MSG tweezer. Like, weird. It is. It is wild that like, even in a year that is. I don't think is. Is as well regarded because of what's happened in the intervening years. We have these like, really tent pole moments. I think you can talk about the lack of nuance in this run, but also the like, extended jamming of the Ruby Waves and then that really beautiful melodic segment in the tweezer as all being really important as they would move forward, even though it wouldn't be revealed for two years.

Megan (42:43)

Sure, yeah, it's interesting. I mean, who knows what's happening here? I mean, I think there's a lot in summer 2019 that's worth. That's worth like, going back to. I just think it was.

Ryan (42:54)

You have to cherry pick, right?

Megan (42:55)

Like, yeah, it's a long. It's a long tour with a lot of, like, stuff that's not worth going back to. But there's some Moments from the Camden run that are really great. There's some moments from. From each of them that have, like, these. These moments. I mean, I think the, like the. We can talk about the highlights, but that. The end of Tweezer in Mexico that last night. It's last night, right where they. That like, kind of layered sound at the very end, like, the last minute and a half is like. Like, that's one of my favorite parts of the whole run. Just because it's like. And I feel like that's. That's where they start building is on things like that. And that's like Trey being. He's kind of just playing the same notes over and over. But the way that they build it toward, like, with some, you know, intention and a little bit of. Of kind of like intensity, I feel like that's the stuff that. That kind of is built upon later on in the year.

Ryan (43:48)

Sure.

Brian (43:49)

Totally agree. Yeah, that's a really good point. And I had totally forgotten this jam until I went back and I was just. I had an earbud in doing, and I was just like, oh, my God, I cannot believe that this is happening right now as they're about to leave. And from that tweezer, we're going into segment.

Ryan (44:08)

I like that. Yeah, that. That segment. Brian's favorite word. Yeah, yeah. The Tweezer Carini Ghost Santos is a great segment here because, I mean, you don't have a tent pole jam in night three, Right. Like night one and night two both have at least one massive jam.

RJ (44:27)

Yeah.

Ryan (44:27)

And night three, they go for more of the, you know, we're gonna have fun approach, especially in the first part of the second set. And this tweezer is also kind of like a. Like a show saver in a way. Like, it's not super long or super crazy, but it's like you're getting some improv finally after, you know, first two mics weak, a pog and eight minute fuego.

Brian (44:46)

They were just throwing ideas at the wall at that point, and then this came along and they were like, cool. Five song insane. Encore.

Ryan (44:54)

Yeah.

Brian (44:55)

All right, let's talk about this encore at Meg.

RJ (44:58)

I have an idea. Maybe the last night of Monda Green, maybe. Yeah, I know that. Like, so easy. Just literally take this encore and plop it in there like they've learned this lesson.

Megan (45:09)

You get an epic fuego instead of.

RJ (45:11)

Yeah, I mean, yeah, some of us were dicks.

Ryan (45:14)

And that was basically the encore for Monogram.

RJ (45:17)

Well, it's. It's also like, I think that they've, like, They've learned this lesson. Like, this encore is such a consolation to me. I feel like it's like a. Hey, we didn't really get there, like, as much as we wanted to tonight, but, like, here you go. Like, that's what it seems like to me. And maybe I'm not. They're probably like, whatever, we just want to go have fun and, like, fuck it up. But that's what I think what you were saying earlier, Brian, and commenting on my comment is that, yeah, like, if you're going to be sloppy, at least, like, have some fucking fun. And this encore is like that. But, yeah, would have been good at Mondegreen to have some fun.

Ryan (45:45)

Last comment, rj. I promise. And then you can. We can progress this for the entire episode. 45 minutes.

Brian (45:51)

Yeah.

RJ (45:51)

Wow.

Ryan (45:51)

Yeah, I will leave. But your point about them having fun, I. I disagree. I think they're having a lot of fun this whole run. And I think what we see from Fish kind of starting. Starting they're having fun. And really, when Kazbo Vax happens, I think that just kind of. I think. Think especially with Casper Facts after that, it's every year since. It's been like, they are having an absolute blast up there. And summer 2019, musically, may not be the most impressive. But, like, I remember, like, watching the shows and listening back and, like, they are so clearly having such a great time on stage that entire tour. You know, you get. Think of the. The Camden 20 years later and that Hee Haw riff, like, and how that shows up for, like, two weeks after. Yeah, right. You don't get that when they're not having a lot of fun.

RJ (46:38)

And I think they're having fun on this run. That's what I'm saying. Saved by their fun.

Ryan (46:42)

Mike posted at. After summer 2019, he posted an Instagram, like, a whole long thing about how much fun he had on that tour. Mike Gordon, who, like, doesn't look like he ever wants to be on stage with Fish.

Brian (46:54)

Like, you know, have you ever seen the man's tour highlights playlist? Because I don't.

Ryan (46:58)

Well, that's. That's a different story.

Megan (47:01)

All right, let's talk about night One. Let's talk about Night one highlights. We've kind of touched on these. These. We kind of jumped around, which is very, very unprofessional for this podcast because we're. We're usually extremely on. Sorry, you know, on. Forgot what show we're even talking about. But, Megan, what were your. What were some of your highlights from the first night?

RJ (47:20)

I like, that everything's right from the first set. I love how it gets really dramatic. I think Paige really delivers on the piano. It's got a nice little peek, some soling from Trey, and then I. I really love this Soul Planet, the Spanish Moon. I think this is awesome. Like, it's so fun. Has that, like, rocking groove. Kind of eases its way right into the little feet cover. It's so great. And that was a huge bust out too, right? Hadn't been played since 2010 and so growly and fun. They just. They sound like they're really enjoying themselves there, having fun. But my favorite jam from this whole run is the. I always wanted it this way. Into Death Don't Hurt Very Long. I love it. Has, like the groove. It's got the bliss peak, and then it's got like a scratchy synth jam. And I want you to tell me more about that, Ryan. Cause I don't really understand it, but I want you to tell us what's happening. Yeah, but it's. Then it has that kind of spacey end. Into Death Don't Hurt Very Long. So this is a great jam. And this is a jam that I've returned to even outside of this. This is probably the one jam that I listened to from this run.

Megan (48:16)

Yeah. And Ryan, I want to ask you. I think in the Twist, you can hear Paige. He's all over the jam and the twist just to kick things off. And it's really loose and open. And the synth in there. I want to hear what you have to say. But Megan, on that. That Jan that you just pointed out, that is kind of like the. The epitome of the whole sound where you just. Like that. That segment, you know, like the Trey with a Leslie, it's. It's very open. But then he does, I guess, you know, he kind of carries it. Carries it forward toward a peak and then into the Death Don't Hurt Very Long. But Ryan, where. Where does the synth sound like start for you in this night one? Is it. Is it like at the Twist? Like in. Right at the beginning?

Ryan (49:00)

So I will say that the. The only real synthy stuff that happens in the show to my memory, is in the 2001, which is nicely extended. You get some great synth action from Paige. But I think this run is the last run that we've had of Fish, where Paige is really all over the organ. Because once he gets the Mog one, like, that's where his brain is going. And you still have a lot of organ jams in summer 2019. But especially when they come back post pandemic, and the organ is now behind him. You know, it's not nearly on his focus, but at this point, like, you know, obviously summer 2017, you had so much of the Moog because it was the Voyager because it was new, and he wanted to be playing that in every jam. And by this point, he's kind of. He knows its role, right? You know, new toy syndrome, like, Trey gets a new pedal, he plays it for an entire year, and then it might stay in the rig, but then it gets used more tastefully afterwards. So the organ is. Is kind of at its last run where it's the centerpiece here. And I think he goes to it in a lot of jams on this run. I remember at the time, like, even I think the chatter online was like, paige Zorgan is the MVP of this Mexico run for me. I want to call out in this Everything's Right. Like, it's. It's not jam charted on fish.net I think it should be, because I. I think at this point, we were getting a lot of really, really solid 15 minute or so. Everything's Right rights. That was kind of the standard, you know, modulate up, great bliss peak kind of rocky RE entry, which is not great in this version. But what I like here is Trey actually switches guitars in the middle of the jam. He played the first half of the first set on the original Languidoc, like the. The Marmar one from the early 90s, and then switches in the middle of Everything's Right. So they get into this, like, you know, Fishman's pushing the tempo, and Paige is just laying out on the roads, and Trey goes and switches guitar. And so there's like, I don't know, 10 or 15 seconds, maybe 15 seconds where there's no guitar, and it's just like, whoa. And then he comes back in with this just like. Like, soaring lead line that just. I. I love. Like, I love that moment specifically. And the way that Paige sets that up is just so incredible. And it's a great peak. If you ignore how they got back into the song.

Brian (51:20)

If you ignore a specific part of the song, it is a great song. I agree with you. And this was a time when Everything's Right could do absolutely no wrong. I remember seeing. I saw the Austin version when they really broke out, and from there, you had a killer version in Camden. Why am I blanking? You had a great version in Albany opener, a Vegas show opener. You had a stunning version on 12, 30, 18, where Trey winner of the.

Ryan (51:56)

Jam of the year bracket in 2018.

Brian (51:59)

And probably rightly so. I mean, that. That. That riff he finds is so counter to anything that we hear here. Like, he is just. That is Trey finding a riff and just like taking it to the mountains. And here is a very different sound. But yeah, that I remember when they. When it happen, watching the stream and it just was like. Because they'd opened the show with Spock's brain. The first 429 shows. Twist free and who loves the sun. The second version ever, first since Halloween. 98, 604 shows. And it was wild to then, like, because you're already feeling off kilter. This is not a normal way to open a run. These are huge bust outs that people may never see or most likely will never see. And then we get Everything's right, which is the. All right, this is the song. We are here, we've arrived, and it's a great jam. I. I think, well, we should also note that we get. We are come to outlive our brains next. But I know you guys don't like that.

RJ (52:59)

Yeah. One of your favorite songs.

Ryan (53:01)

Greatest song ever written.

RJ (53:02)

Greatest song. One of the best songs ever written. One of the best.

Brian (53:05)

One of the best. Absolutely one of the best.

Megan (53:08)

But now we know that one of the best means just one of the songs written.

RJ (53:13)

Yeah.

Brian (53:13)

What else do you think? One of the best.

Ryan (53:15)

We all really like ranking, you know, Know. Yeah.

RJ (53:20)

Or is it like relation to 25?

Brian (53:23)

I would put we are come to live our brains as top 35.

Megan (53:28)

I think it's.

Brian (53:29)

Wow.

RJ (53:30)

I think it's so wild to me.

Brian (53:34)

Okay, why don't we.

Megan (53:35)

Why don't we do a song draft? What are we even around with here? Let's go.

Brian (53:42)

Right now. Right.

Ryan (53:42)

Megan, you're drafting something wack tube. Round one, right?

Megan (53:45)

Yeah. Do it by. You got to do it by alphabetical order. Right. So we can each draft from like A to D. Exactly.

RJ (53:52)

And then I just need a list of all Brian's favorite songs. So I don't pick any.

Megan (53:57)

All right, Brian, go ahead and defend yourself about this. Well, I'm not gonna.

Brian (54:01)

I. I'm not defending that. That's a whole nother podcast. I was gonna give you my pick for jam of the show, which is 2001, which is the first really good 2001 in a long, long, long, long, long time. It had been. Go ahead, go ahead. 8518. That's. That's a good one. That's a very good one. That was kind of the. That in 1031, 2016 were like these first and maybe Chula 2016. We're starting to be interested in the song again for a long time. From 2.0 into early 3.0, it was like, hey, it's middle of the second set, second night in a venue and we have no idea what to play. Let's just give you a six minute 2001 from this version. We go into. We come out of this and we go into the Nashville version or excuse me, the Philadelphia version from 2019, the Mexico version from 2020. Nashville 2021, which is short but is like effects drenched. 1019, 2021 in Eugene. A near 14 minute late second set, deep jam with three jam segments within it. And then the 1028, 2021 numbers opening version. We are entering love that. And that's a great. Opened up the show. You thought it was going to be Bowie at times. You had no idea what was going on. I remember watching from home and being terrified for everyone who was in the venue because it just seemed so.

RJ (55:35)

And then it just explodes like a bomb going off.

Brian (55:38)

You get that? I mean, it's just. It's. It's outstanding stuff that in 1999. I mean, what a show.

RJ (55:43)

Exactly.

Brian (55:44)

Maybe, maybe you could have recommended that run, Ryan, but that's neither here nor there.

Megan (55:50)

There's plenty of plenty to talk about. They played some of their best songs ever in this run. So we're doing great, you know.

Brian (55:58)

Then.

RJ (55:59)

We'D really be on the.

Ryan (56:01)

Where do you rank Spock's Brain?

Megan (56:02)

Brian. Brian.

Brian (56:03)

One thing about the two, I enjoy the fact that Spock Brain does not attempt to sound like a. It's a very amylodic sou song. I enjoy that aspect of it. I would like to see it once. I don't know if it's like a song. I. I mean, I love summer 95. So now. So now we're talking like top 75. No, but I just. I think it's just important to note that this. That was a joke. I think it's just important to note that. That this is the, like, this is the dawn of a new era for 2001. And we hear it here and we hear it coming after all these really big jams in the second set. That's. It's just. It's a notable moment that happens on night one.

Megan (56:42)

Okay.

RJ (56:43)

I love how the like ambient space under the jam and like they've got the chorus going, but they're still doing the ambient space. That's sick.

Megan (56:50)

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Brian (58:18)

Hey, this is Steve Choi, host of the Musicians Guild podcast, part of the Sound Talent Media Podcast network. Within the four walls of the Musicians Guild, we'll be discussing the habits, idiosyncrasies, experiences and general psychology of my friends and peers all involved with music in various capacities. Listen and subscribe@soundtalent media.com so I think.

Megan (58:43)

The thing about the 2001, all those that you mentioned, Brian, like you were saying, Megan, it doesn't really. Those are all. They all involve some sort of dark, quiet moments and maybe that's part of the, part of the kind of building of the, of the peaks. But you know, like, this version has like, like half of it is just quiet and building. But I think that's what makes the peak, like pay off even, even more. It's interesting that they got into that space whereas like the earlier in the 90s, the big, big 2001 jams were just like them just going insane for 10 minutes at a time.

Caller (59:16)

Right?

Brian (59:17)

Yeah, right.

Megan (59:17)

Which is.

RJ (59:18)

I feel like I'm like sour on this song a little bit because it's like ruined the last four quarters of 1230 for the last like two years. So I'm like, I don't, I don't know. I love this song, but I'm like, now when I hear it, I'm like, oh, this is like.

Megan (59:29)

I think it's, I think that's a fine perspective. I do not need to hear 2001 again. I don't like, I love it, but I don't.

RJ (59:35)

Yeah, I don't want to hear it. Hear it in like a fourth quarter on 12:30. That's.

Ryan (59:41)

I don't want to hear it when it's five minutes long. I think that's the issue.

Megan (59:44)

Then you better just not hear it at all.

Ryan (59:46)

Yeah.

RJ (59:47)

And they wouldn't go there if they didn't know. What if they knew something better to do at. In the fourth quarter on 12:30.

Brian (59:52)

Sure.

RJ (59:52)

Like, they wouldn't be playing 2001. Come on. They'd be in, in the middle of a 45 minute Ruby waves or something.

Megan (59:59)

I just looked at my stats. I've seen it 25 times. That's enough. I'm good. Good.

Brian (60:03)

I, I, I, I'm not disagreeing with anything you guys are saying, but there is a, like, clear period where it was revitalized and it totally starts.

Megan (60:12)

Yeah.

RJ (60:12)

Yes, I agree with that.

Ryan (60:14)

Yeah.

Megan (60:15)

Okay, let's talk about night two. Friday 222 19. Brian. What, where, where your, where do you go here? If, I mean, I assume you're listening to the whole show every time, but let's just say you weren't. What are your, what are your highlights?

Ryan (60:28)

Well, that's the thing about this era of fish. If you listen to the whole show, you're going to be wincing a lot. I have not gone back to this yam for that reason. It is very cool. And I remember streaming the show being like, oh, they open with the yam.

Brian (60:41)

Oh, my God.

Ryan (60:42)

But yeah, this is not clean by any means. I'm listening back to the Nomen, which is very sneaky. Good Final few minutes of that jam. This tube. Tube, which is an incredibly efficient 8 minutes. Do not skip this tube again, Paige. So there's some nice voyager synth work early on that's like that kind of basic synth that, that Paige is playing. And then, you know, just the roads work. And I think this is some of Trey's most confident playing of the run when he comes in for the peak here. And they really nailed the re entry which is key. So. Love this tube a lot. But it's, you know, obviously it's the Set your soul free Mercury. One of the. I can never remember the exact number. It's eight or nine times in fish history where they've done back to back 20 minute jams. You know, this is in the middle of, you know, Brian, you're talking about the 2001 Renaissance. This is at the peak of Mercury right here. You, you know, you had it finally become realized at the end of 2018 with Rosemont, with Vegas. You have this version and then you have some incredible, incredible versions throughout 2019. And then it basically has never jammed again. So, you know, what the hell's up with that? But I know we've been asking for years, but this, this set your soul free is my jam of the run. I love the, the maximalist approach through all of this. You know, again, Paige just going so many different parts of his rigs rigged. There's a, there's a whirly segment, there's a road segment and the organ, but it's really the final peak. You know, the helicopter sound you mentioned from the alpine ruby waves pops up in this jam. You know, you kind of had it similar kind of delay work in the. I always wanted it this way. And the 1231, 18, 7 below, I think is the first instance of him using that, that kind of effect. But the end of this Set your soul free when they get into that like kind of tweet prize ascending progression and then Trey does that thing that sounds like an airplane taking off or landing.

Brian (62:43)

Oh yeah.

Ryan (62:44)

I like, I love that. I like, I want to like punch a hole in a wall out of excitement. Every time I listen to the peak of this jam. Like it's, it's awesome the last couple of minutes, but I, I think it's just, it's really engaging throughout its whole runtime. And yeah, it's. It's amazing. And then the Mercury is just like pure bliss after that. But the set your soul free is my, my highlight of the show here.

Megan (63:08)

I just want to jump in and just say that Mercury and I mentioned this earlier to you guys, like the Mercury into the Slave, like at the end of the Mercury, he's like doing the thing that he did a lot in that time when he's like the, you know, like the little like just playing almost like. Yeah, yeah, like dancy little riff that doesn't really make any sense. And it's not. He's not really hitting that many notes but. And then they just Transition really well into Slave, which is just not a very, very common. It's not what you would have expected. It's not what I would have expected at that point in the show. It's pretty cool. But the. The Set Yourself Free is great.

Brian (63:41)

It is interesting that we're in an era in 2019 where Mercury is the reliable song that they know how to play, because five years later, they don't know how to play Mercury anymore.

Ryan (63:51)

Trey didn't really know how to play it at this show either. He knew how to.

RJ (63:54)

Very sloppy that. Compose. Compose.

Brian (63:56)

It is way tighter than any I've heard recently. Like, I was, like, pleasantly surprised listening to this Mercury. I was like, oh, yeah, that's how that song sounded. This show is so interesting to me. I think that. Sorry to be repeating this, but I think that this is one of. We don't have to get into the specifics here, but one of the best shows on paper that the band has ever played. Like, set list wise. This is about. This is about as amazing of a set list as I could ever envision being.

Ryan (64:31)

Except for the encore.

Brian (64:34)

Except for. Except for the. Well, no, you know what?

RJ (64:38)

More is heartfelt if you got five minutes.

Ryan (64:41)

But, like, best show they've ever played.

Brian (64:44)

All right, so let's just say first.

Ryan (64:46)

And second sets because, like, best show they've ever played. Like, Wack Tube is one of the best songs they've ever written. Like, that kind of.

Brian (64:52)

I am saying on paper, this is one of the strongest set lists that the band has ever played through two sets. And I think that that holds up in the court of law. You get your first you Enjoy myself opener since July 9, 2003. I saw ECW in the chat said that he called the yem opener, which means he's either got amazing predictive skills or he's just like, you know, gambling with whatever at this point in time because. Just amazing. That's a great prediction. That's all that had to be so sick there. There have been 14 all time, three since 2, 2000. But my notes for this yam were that feeling when the vocal jam is better than the jam, you get Turtle in the Clouds, which is the third performance ever. And I don't know how. They don't know how to play it. It's shocking. It just debuted like four months earlier. You're at your points, Ryan. The. The no man and no Man's Land jam. The. The final few minutes, the way that it fades into just really beautiful ambient space, it kind of tears up the entire argument. We've been making this episode about how tr a beautiful segment. First emotional rescue since the your face show. 233 shows. There's not a single person that would complain about tube saw it again. Closing out the set again. They don't know how to play it, but it's great. And then a six song. A six song second set that is two of your most reliable jam vehicles of the era.

Megan (66:25)

Slave.

Brian (66:26)

Kind of the perfect end of set. Mid set table setting. Like it just transitions really nicely. Harmless possum. Unless you're RJB and insanity. And to walk away to close out the set. Like it's just. At every. Every point you're either being reinforced that Fish has written some really awesome songs and knows how to place them in the set list, or they're throwing out a song that you had no expectations would be played and is being dropped down on you in a way that it just elevates the energy of the crowd. It gets back to like what you guys with, you know, 2001 becoming this very predictable fourth quarter song. There's no predictability in the show. Like, this is one of those shock value. Every song that's played you're just like, what? Like they're playing this now in.

RJ (67:15)

Yeah, this is. They played this in 2021 for dinner and a movie on like the anniversary of it that year. And I remember watching it. I think my dad was visiting and I was showing him it and. And it was so fun to watch because this, this set one I think feels like a set two. Like this is a perfect set to set list. And I think that unless you're rj. Yeah, a shade saw it again is like solid fourth quarter stuff. And it works really well in the second quarter too. But yeah, this tube. I just want to say is this is my shit. Like this. The way that this jam sounds is. Is that's Meg stuff right there. That's what I like. I love. It gets so rich and so, so funky. It starts with like that mellow like groovy Plinko jam. And then it has like a big finish after like a bunch of like tight shit. I like that a lot. And yeah, I love the Snowmans too. There's like two other really great versions this year right after this. Like the one in Maryland and then the one I saw in Camden was just awesome too. But yeah, I love. I think that this, this show is super strong and I think that if. Yeah, I think this is probably like my favorite show of the whole run. Despite having like the Better jam the night before that I liked. But this is a really strong show, I think. Yeah. Especially opening with the two second set with these two big monster jams and this set yout Soul Free. This is like the fifth time that the song goes really big, so it's still kind of new into like being a huge jam vehicle. And the fact that it goes 26 minutes to open the set, it's just. It's killer.

Ryan (68:47)

Yeah.

Brian (68:48)

RJ's one of the classic things that we can rely on with Phish nowadays. And the set your Soul Free is a part of it that like that song debuted mid summer 2018 and by the fall or by the winter of the next year. Yeah, It's. It's.

Ryan (69:04)

It's 25 minutes.

Brian (69:07)

Well, yeah, no, you're absolutely right. But like by six months later, it's just like every time it's played, you know that you're getting something big.

RJ (69:13)

Yeah, I love that. It's like what's going through your mind right now. Like, they just. They love their new stuff. It's awesome.

Megan (69:17)

Yeah. Okay, let's talk night three. This you mentioned earlier, Ryan, there's not like a tentpole jam here, but there is some. I mean, it feels like to me from the beginning of the show, like they're. They're becoming a little bit more comfortable as they go. I mean, with the exception of the. Some composed stuff, but like.

RJ (69:40)

Oh my God.

Megan (69:41)

I think the blaze on jam is great. And I guess to me, when I was listening back to this, I think the mics. Right. Like that part that you mentioned that earlier, the mics through the Tweezer or. Or through the Karini, really, that like Mike's is kind of like the perfect vehicle for this kind of sound. You know, it, like it just. It. It all works.

Brian (69:59)

That's a really good point.

Megan (70:00)

Yeah.

RJ (70:01)

Yeah, I like that felt like it.

Megan (70:02)

Was like kind of coming together, but I don't know. They were not. They did not play many of these songs very often, I guess, like in terms of practice.

RJ (70:10)

But do you think that they were like, we're not gonna with hydrogen because we cannot do it. Like, I was looking at this and this.

Ryan (70:16)

Well, no, because they.

RJ (70:17)

The only fourth time that they didn't play that that might. That we could pog followed bikes ever.

Ryan (70:22)

Yeah, I think that.

RJ (70:24)

Never do that.

Ryan (70:25)

I think that with the other compositionally complex songs they played like, you know, Yam or Divided sky or Curtain. I don't. I don't think, you know, they didn't think they could play hydrogen. Like we're going to draw the line there, but we're going to play the curtain.

RJ (70:39)

I know, but it is kind of weird though, that this is only the fourth time ever that they've played Weak A pog right after Mike's. I don't know.

Brian (70:45)

And it's not like a particularly great segue into it like some of those versions before.

RJ (70:50)

Right. It's not like.

Ryan (70:50)

Just like Trey also wipes out during this first tube. If you watch the video, he falls over while doing like the rock star running around the stage. But to his credit, maybe, maybe his tightest moment, he doesn't miss a chord. He listen to this first tube. You can't tell when he wipes out because he keeps playing. Playing.

RJ (71:10)

I got that.

Ryan (71:11)

But this Chalk Dust is, I think, my favorite part of the first set. A little bit of some interesting kind of dissonant work in there. You know, they weren't doing a lot at the time. Kind of 81218 is another one that kind of does a similar kind of old school, dissonant build in a shorter, you know, set closing Shock Dust from around that time. But this setlist, despite having a lot of newer songs in it, kind of has an old school feel to it. I think that's just because I look at this first set and, you know, seeing Curtain with Punch you in the Eye, Divided Sky, Chalk Dust, Destiny Unbound, like th. That like, jumps out at me as like kind of an old school vibe. Whereas you still have, you know, Blaze on most events, steam. But I don't know, this kind of has an old school vibe to me there because of that. And, you know, I guess the Mike's Weapog, I think, and. And Kong, big black, furry creature. Right. Like there. There are these things that. That are more of an old school fish kind of feel in my eyes.

Brian (72:13)

At least I get that. I mean, I think the gimmickry attitude and the fun. Let's just let the set list dictate things rather than the jamming. You're absolutely right. I don't know if that's because they kind of reached the wall with the jamming or if it's like the final night in Mexico vibe that tends to happen every so over the last couple of years. It feels a little bit more like you're all going home. We're all going home. Like, let's just have like an inconsequential fun night of fish before we all have to be up and be ready for the buses at 5 o'clock in the morning. I I think it's interesting someone commented in here. This runs back to the first show of the run. So sorry, rj, for throwing us off even further.

Megan (73:04)

But.

Brian (73:04)

But Soul Planet is played in this run at a time when Soul Planet was like one of the dominant songs of the era. And I'm just looking through recent years, it was played three or four times in 2022, twice in 2023 and once in 2024.

Ryan (73:23)

So you're kind of like, count now.

Brian (73:26)

And the time it was played was an outstanding version. It was the Deer Creek Jam. Really, really outstanding jam there. But it's interesting that, like, some of these, like, we're kind of at a crossroads with Fish's songs at this point in time. Like, they're really pushing the cast vote stuff really hard right now. They haven't written a lot of the songs that are going to go on evolve. So, like, you do get this, like, between two eras, I think, throughout the entire run. But this show, I think this is one of the strangest Fish shows that's ever been played. And I say one of because I don't have a list of all of them. But, like, this almost reminds me in the same way as Alpine99. Not just because Trey fell down in both shows, but because, like, structurally they just make no sense, you know, Like, Fish shows tend to have this, like, flow to them. And there are certain shows where, like a narrative to them. There's certain shows where that narrative is just like thrown into a blender and spun up. And you get weird things. Like a Guy Udi opener into a 32 minute fluff head into the man who Stepped Into Yesterday. And then like a bizarre second set and an encore of All Bust Outs. Like, this show is basically, for the first three quarters of it, kind of just like a band that's ready to jump on an airplane and get back to whatever they were doing before the weekend. And then you get this really inspired segment that we talked about at the top of the show. So I won't like, dive too much into it. But like, for me, everything from Tweezer through Tweezer Reprise is as high quality as the jamming that we've got throughout the weekend. It's super fun, it's super shocking. It's just like you talk about old school Fish energy. It's kind of just an unhinged, like, we're gonna do whatever we want. And you all paid the money to get here. You knew what you paid us for. Like you weren't. Yeah, yeah, like you weren't Paying just for, like, the jams or, like, us to nail all the compositions. You're paying for the energy and the shock value. Like, that's a huge part of the Fish experience. And anyone who left after the. Got that in the final 45 minutes of it.

Megan (75:34)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, it's. Yeah, I think you're right. It's all about the energy, Brian. That's what they say.

Ryan (75:41)

It's all about the vibe.

Brian (75:42)

Some people say it. I'm defending it in this very specific moment. Do not clip this and put this out into the world.

Megan (75:49)

Oh, yeah, we're gonna do it.

RJ (75:51)

We're clipping it.

Ryan (75:52)

Brian Brinkman, vibes guy.

Megan (75:54)

Vibes guy.

RJ (75:55)

It's in Mexico. That does it to him.

Megan (75:59)

The, The Blaze on. In the first, at the beginning part of this. And Brian, you went back to the Soul Planet. I feel like the Soul Planet, the Blaze on. There's like, four jams throughout this run where they, like, leave the song structure, and then Trey, like, fires up the Lesley, and then that kind of kicks off the exact, like, kind of predictable, you know, place where they go with the jam. But I love that. Like, I wish that. I wish the Trade did that every. Every jam.

Ryan (76:24)

Yeah.

Megan (76:27)

I know. Like, it's such a great. It's just, like, such a great way to start a jam. You know, it's. And it. And it, like, basically kind of seeds the territory to Paige, because then Paige kind of, like, just takes it and goes somewhere else. And then Trey kind of doesn't have to do anything after that, which is awesome. I think it's. I think these jams are great. I love them. Ryan, what's your. What's your. What's your lasting.

RJ (76:49)

RJ loves these jams.

Megan (76:51)

I do.

Brian (76:52)

Were you at this run, rj?

Megan (76:54)

No. No. Yeah. I love it, though. I mean, I, I, I'm all about Paige.

Ryan (76:59)

Rj. RJ is a vibes guy.

Megan (77:01)

Except obviously. All right, Ryan, what's your lasting, lasting impression now that we went back through in detail?

Ryan (77:10)

Well, I, I think it's become more clear with time that this is a stepping stone between two eras of the band within, you know, the later 3.0 era. You know, Brian, you mentioned, mentioned, you know, some of the new songs getting debuted, but you also have this is the last run before they get the entire album's worth of Ghosts and Forest material. And that all gets dumped into set lists throughout the summer. And I think one of the reasons why 2019 as a whole is so inconsistent is because Trey and the band, but mostly Trey, is trying to put two entire albums worth of material into the Fish Live repertoire all at once. Yeah, because you also have like, you know, now the Casbah Vax songs, aside from Santos, they're pretty infrequent at this point.

Megan (77:59)

And we know the Ghost of the.

Ryan (78:00)

Forest songs are basically just like what, like Ruby Waves and the occasional drift. Yeah, right. Like we're not getting. We're not getting.

Brian (78:08)

We need to see his stars here.

Ryan (78:11)

Yes. Thank you.

Brian (78:12)

But in 2019, Ryder has never really been. That's been played once.

Ryan (78:15)

It got played once. And Fishman or Mike and Paige didn't learn it in advance. Fishman and Mohegan in 2019, they just started playing it and like Mike. Mike and Paige had not learned it. It just. It kind of happened.

Brian (78:30)

But I say this in the most loving way possible, but Trey is such a jerk sometimes.

Ryan (78:35)

I mean, it segued out of a jam. I think it was actually Fishman who went into it because it has that like kind of weird beat. But the point is, like, you're about to get all this material dumped in. So this is the last kind of. Even though you have the newer tunes like Everything's Right and Soul Planet and Set your Soul Free, this feels like the last Fish run of this era because the set list changed so much in, in 2019. And then when they come back post Covid, you know, they've got a lots of new songs and these newer ones continue to dominate in jam vehicle slots as well. So I don't know. Yeah, it's. It's just, it's so fascinating to look at, especially now, six years later. You know, I said to you guys before we started recording, like, this is sloppier than I remember. And I think as a, as a 19 year old, you know, I had more rose colored glasses about it at the time. And so going back to it, like, it's just, it's. It's so. It's so interesting to contextualize a run at this point because. Because 2019, like, you know, as RJ said, like there are highlights from that year, but there are very few full shows that you want to go back and listen to. And I think that contextualizing it in the Journey at the time, you could kind of contextualize it as where the band was going, you know, out of the Baker's Dozen. And that reset that you mentioned, Brian, like they needed to reset at the end of 2018. But looking back on it now, now six years later is so fascinating because I think there's so Much that you can pick out that you can trace to, you know, kind of things that they. That didn't really work, that they kind of reworked, you know, in 4.0, and. But, yeah, that's. That's the. That's the biggest thing. It's. It is the stepping stone, this run.

Megan (80:27)

All right, thanks, Ryan. I appreciate that. Does anyone else want to add anything about this run before we start previewing Mount Rushmore more? Because this is big.

Brian (80:37)

It's big. I think. I think Ryan's points are incredibly strong, and I'm. I'm gonna just. I'm gonna just seed the floor here because I think that he made as in depth and as thoughtful of a reflection on this run as possible. I think that you were seeing the end of a great period of Fish, and it's very clear in hindsight that the band needed a slight reset. And whereas I don't wish Covid on, like, in a lot of ways, I wish it hadn't happened. Like, for a band like Fish, that break, that force, break of the pandemic was an outstanding opportunity, as it was for a young ascendant jam band who would utilize streaming and webcasting shows better than anyone during. During COVID Was it Aggie?

RJ (81:33)

Yeah, exactly. That's who it was.

Megan (81:35)

Hey, there's another band playing Spanish Moon right now and having a lot of fun with it. I'm just saying it's happening.

RJ (81:43)

I have one takeaway. It's very small and not deep at all, but if you're gonna play sloppy, at least make it fun. And if your show is kind of sucking, play some bust outs to make the fans happy and just have a good time and maybe do something wild, like play Kong or Big Luck character from Mars or Ikyulys or crazy like that. That's my takeaway.

Brian (82:03)

It's great advice. When in doubt, what's the bust out on the large list you can play right now? What is. Who's gonna complain? Can you play too many bust outs is people. Are people gonna be like, oh, that's a gimmick.

RJ (82:16)

Everybody been walking around, like, arm in arm, like, oh, my God, we just heard Melt the Guns. Like, oh, my God, we just heard.

Brian (82:24)

You know, like, okay, okay. But they would figure out. Trey would figure out a way to be. To get really cute with it.

Ryan (82:29)

No, you put. You put melt the guns mid. And then they get jukeboxy after. And so Brian would then complain about the Melt the guns because.

RJ (82:38)

No, he complains after. Come on.

Megan (82:41)

I just want to say that Megan, we Said earlier. I said earlier. Megan never stops teaching, and this is a teachable moment for everybody. You know, if all else fails, at least have fun, which is what we try to do here. Ryan, thank you. Thank you for coming.

Ryan (82:55)

Thank you so much.

Megan (82:57)

All right, you can just stay there. Don't go anywhere. We got to listen to a voicemail because people have been. Been. Oh, yeah, people have been. People have been anticipating the. The premiere of our new new 2025 Mount Rushmore series. So let's listen to a quick voicemail. I think it's going to get everybody pumped up for next week. You guys ready?

RJ (83:15)

Yeah, I'm already pumped up, but yeah, I want to hear it.

Megan (83:18)

I know.

Brian (83:18)

I know you are. I'm still seething about this bust out comment, but keep going.

Caller (83:23)

Calling from Charleston, South Carolina. Just want to call and say I appreciate the podcast. It has gotten me to re listen and kind of rediscover a lot of the old tours that I hadn't gone back to since experiencing the first time. And the Mount Rushmore kind of exercise that you pose now was getting me thinking. And in starting exercises, it does Bathtub gin. Of course, I thought of the wind gin, but it's made me also think think that that night two set, two of the Great Wind happens to have four Mount Rushmore jams in a single set with the down with disease, the bathtub gin, the 2001, and the hairy.

Jeremy (84:08)

Hood with the first glow stick war.

Caller (84:11)

No disrespect to the essential Uncle Penn as well, but I think is also on Mount Rushmore. More of this set. So just a little thought to chew on. And thanks so much. Looking forward to the next pot.

Megan (84:27)

Look at that, guys. A Mount Rushmore set. That's pretty awesome.

Ryan (84:31)

Brian already has an idea.

RJ (84:33)

Here's the idea.

Ryan (84:34)

I can see the wheels turning.

Megan (84:36)

I know whoever came up with this Mount Rushmore idea is really smart and cool. I'm just saying it was you, man.

Brian (84:42)

We're not trying to steal your credit. You came up with a Mount Rushmore I idea.

RJ (84:46)

Okay?

Brian (84:46)

You did it. That's your. Your job.

Megan (84:49)

That's my win of the year.

Brian (84:51)

What might be a thing that we can spend the next two to three years talking about. You come up with it, all right? It's great. You did an amazing job.

Megan (84:59)

Megan. Megan wins the drafts. I come up with this stuff, and.

Brian (85:02)

Then Brian and I just make spread.

Megan (85:04)

Makes everything happen.

Brian (85:05)

I just spreadsheets.

RJ (85:06)

Brian plans everything that we're doing.

Megan (85:08)

He.

RJ (85:08)

He sets it all up.

Megan (85:09)

He does set it all up.

Brian (85:12)

I think that this caller is. Brings up a great idea that gives us content until the2030s, at least. So we're good. Until we're good, finally, at least.

Megan (85:25)

Okay, so next week versions.

Brian (85:27)

Yeah, go ahead. Go ahead.

Megan (85:28)

No, no, no. I want to hear it. Do you. Do you agree on principle that this could be. This could be four Mount Rushmore jams in this set?

Brian (85:36)

If I agree offhand, it.

Ryan (85:41)

This is not.

Brian (85:43)

It gives away a lot of information. So I'm just gonna say he could be correct. He could be incorrect. I think that without giving any information away, I feel like I'm being, like, interrogated right now. Without giving any. Anything away, you know, that. That would be incriminating to me. Those four jams that he listed are four of the best fish jams that have ever been played. And for the best versions of those songs, whether or not they are all on the Mount Rushmore or any of them are, will come down to individuals who are running the gamut of these versions and figuring out what the Mount Rushmore is. And we will present that, and we will have debate, we will have discourse. But I don't think that he. He's making an outlandish claim. I'll say that. It's a freaking amazing set. How do you like. What the hell? That set is just perfection from start to finish. My God.

Megan (86:42)

The essential pen, essentially. Okay, just. Just so everybody knows, we are not competing. We are not competing with each other.

RJ (86:51)

Oh, yeah. There's no competition.

Megan (86:52)

There's no competition. Although we are gonna. All three of us are gonna reveal our own Mount Rushmore lists so we.

Ryan (86:59)

Can vote on it still.

RJ (87:00)

So we'll see how they're different.

Megan (87:01)

I don't think there'll be any voting.

RJ (87:02)

No, I don't.

Megan (87:03)

Do you think we need voting? I don't know.

RJ (87:05)

I don't. I don't want voting on this.

Megan (87:08)

All right, we will.

Brian (87:09)

I think. I don't think we need voting. I think that we get feedback.

Megan (87:13)

And, Ryan, you can vote.

Ryan (87:15)

Perfect.

Megan (87:15)

I'll text.

RJ (87:16)

You can. You can text us. Brian, are you picking the Mount Rushmore for next week? Are you?

Brian (87:29)

So I'm on tap, so. Yeah. So the way that this will work is we will rotate through the three of us. Each person has a song of the week. They determine the four versions that we will talk about throughout the episode. And at the end of the episode, we will. The other two hosts will share their Mount Rushmores, and we'll just see where we're at. I think that more than anything, this should be a Good reflection of individual tastes, but also, you know, as I'm. And I'll explain this more in detail next week. As I'm approaching this, I'm approaching this as the way Mount Rushmore is constructed, where you have the founding father in Washington. Up there you have Jefferson, who doubled our land total and whose system of government we have been chasing for 248 years, 49 years this summer. You have Lincoln, who reunited the country and whose moral spine is the center of the country. And you have tr. That brought us into the modern age and who really set up, you know, what progressivism could be in the 20th century. And so you have these very diverse. Are they the best presidents? I don't know. I think that that's slightly debatable. Do they define the American ethos? Yes, 100%. And so what we are what I am looking for and I hope you two are as well. Rj, since you haven't started listening, you can take this advice and run with it. What I am looking for are the four defining versions of. Of each song that, that really showcases what this song means in fish history. So I think with that framing, expect surprise picks here in an interesting way.

RJ (89:12)

This is interesting. I'm glad we talked about this because I. I don't know if I thought about it like that. So that's helpful.

Megan (89:19)

Well, I've never listened to. To bathtub gin before, so I. I'm looking forward to hearing what it sounds like and maybe even one of these jams I might. I might see. I might discover something new. I heard that they played it in in July of 98 at least twice. So I'm looking forward to diving in and learning more about this.

RJ (89:38)

Can I.

Brian (89:39)

Actually this is not an inaccurate. This is. This is very, very on point.

RJ (89:44)

Yeah. Elisa's making really great comments in the chat and I just wanted to shout her out because I've been a fan of hers from SiriusXM for a long time and I'm glad we finally connected online. So thank you for listening and excited to get to know know you.

Megan (89:56)

Um, Brian, what you said about how you're approaching my Rushmore is not how I'm doing it at all.

Ryan (90:01)

So shocking.

RJ (90:03)

I had either approaches what I was doing I like the best. That's how I was doing.

Megan (90:09)

I think I understand what you're saying. There they are tent poles in a way.

Brian (90:13)

Yeah.

Megan (90:14)

They're for 10 poles for the tent of Beth of Jen. You know, who would you swap out.

Brian (90:19)

On Mount Rushmore if you had a pick?

Ryan (90:27)

No.

Megan (90:27)

And Fillmore I don't think you could swap anyone out. I mean, I would add. I would add fdr per our conversation.

RJ (90:33)

Gotta go on. Who would you take out instead if we put FDR on Brian.

Megan (90:41)

I would take out. I mean, I don't. I Do we really need two founding Fathers up there, right?

RJ (90:47)

Like, from that era?

Brian (90:49)

Well, I think you have to have.

Megan (90:50)

Washington was, like, kind of an asshole. You know, in retrospect, he hasn't aged well as well.

Brian (90:56)

You know, I think you could swap out Jefferson for Madison if you're going to have two founding Fathers. The problem is, if you go beyond the founding generation, who do you go for? Like, the next logical pick is Andrew Jackson, and I don't think anybody wants that.

RJ (91:11)

Absolutely not.

Brian (91:12)

Well, I mean, I'm just saying, like, we're going with, like, what it picks. What? Like, you know, I don't want to go too far down this road with defending Andrew Jackson.

RJ (91:22)

Exactly. I'm like.

Brian (91:24)

But I. I would probably swap out Jefferson for. For Madison. I just. Maybe I'm a vibes guy and I just keep reading books about James Madison, but, like, I'm just. I'm so taken by his vision for America. I think that you need that on Mount Rushmore, but anyway.

Megan (91:41)

Well, if you want to make a bet about Canada.

Ryan (91:43)

Fun fact. It didn't work.

Brian (91:45)

Say that again.

Ryan (91:46)

He tried to invade Canada and it didn't work.

Brian (91:48)

He did.

Megan (91:49)

Yeah.

Brian (91:49)

Well, I mean, you guys did have the British Empire backing you up, but.

Ryan (91:52)

I don't like Canada, but, you know.

Brian (91:55)

Exactly.

Megan (91:55)

I just. I want to say that if you guys want to look at the odds of who will be on Mount Rushmore, like, I'll take. I'll take. I. I got. I'm willing to. I'm willing to wager. I'm willing to wager. This is a fish podcast, so we have that coming.

Brian (92:13)

The fact that we are going to be able to compare fish jams to American presidents is kind of the combination of everything I've ever wanted in my life.

RJ (92:21)

I feel like I need to, like, do more work now that I didn't know that we had.

Brian (92:24)

No.

Megan (92:24)

Come on again.

Ryan (92:26)

This is Brian doing 4D prep. Like, you didn't know that you had to have a president for every single one of your jams.

RJ (92:32)

I know. Now I'm like, oh, God.

Brian (92:34)

Good call. Good call. Call Brian. Good call. Like that Franklin should.

Megan (92:38)

It's not just Megan. You have to just do. You will all be ourselves, you know?

RJ (92:43)

No, I know.

Ryan (92:43)

And that's.

RJ (92:43)

I'm just kidding. I did it as like what my favorite four were.

Brian (92:48)

But I think that that is just as valuable. And you're just. You're going to be able to defend that just as well. Like, I. You do not need to turn this into these truths. Fish Mount Rushmore edition.

Megan (93:01)

But representation about ERA across areas, though, is important.

Brian (93:05)

Yeah.

RJ (93:07)

And I'm not done prepping, so that's.

Brian (93:09)

One thing I thought about when I was doing this. I'm just really excited because I think that we did a really strong job with 40 for 40. I think we did a really strong job with top 25 tours. I think this kind of combines elements of both of those and allows us to talk about fish history in an unending way that we will certainly get into debates. There will certainly be bad takes. They will happen. RJ has to give us the four best possums ever. So, like, that week leading up to it, the texts that Megan and I are going to get are going to be worth the entire project. So I'm stoked for it to launch. I think that the cool thing about the last two projects, I actually just went back and rewatched our first episode for 40 for 40. And RJ is like, are you guys ready for this? We're taking on a whole new project. Can you believe this?

RJ (93:59)

That's awesome.

Brian (94:00)

The way that we've taken this podcast, podcast since that launching, I think gives us a ton more content. I hope for you as listeners, gives you more to dive into, more to debate internally. When you're like, out for a five mile jog and you're like, why the hell are you defending. We are come to outlive our brains. What's wrong with you? And then texting all your fish friends about it. Like, I hope that you all enjoy this content as well. As much as we love putting together, because that's what it's here for.

RJ (94:26)

It's so fun. I love these projects. I can't wait to do anything.

Megan (94:30)

All right, we'll see you next week. Ryan, thank you so much for joining us. It was fun.

Ryan (94:34)

If I may, really quick before we log off, anyone's watching live and likes Goose and wants to hear a similar podcast with different people and me where we talk for a very long time about Goose and also talk shit similar to these three fine people. Here, here, Check out Always. Almost There, a fellow Osiris podcast. We do a live recap the day after every single Goose show. And tomorrow, if you're watching this live, but February 25th, Peter of the band Goose will be joining us live at 5pm Eastern to talk about the Sweet 16 of the 2024 Jam of the Year bracket. It's going to be fun. Also, Winter tour we will be talking about. There's a lot to cover tomorrow. It's probably going to be long, but this is the third year we're having Peter on. We can't wait. It's gonna be a lot of fun, but thank you guys for having me on today. It's a real treat every time I get to podcast with any of you. So thanks, Alex.

Megan (95:31)

That's.

Ryan (95:32)

I'll take it.

Brian (95:34)

Can I ask you one. Can I ask you one question?

Ryan (95:36)

Yes, Brian.

Brian (95:37)

What is the most egregious jam that made it into the sweet 16? Oh.

RJ (95:44)

Oh, that's a.

Ryan (95:44)

That's a good question. I honestly, I gotta say nothing super egregious. The only one that I disagree with happened today. The. The Cincinnati Thatch beat the Soul Shine. Everything must go by three votes. There's a five seed beating a four seed, so can't be too upset about that. But luckily, this year, people are so far being smarter than last year. I would have had opinions. Yeah, there's lots of time for people to make mistakes.

RJ (96:19)

Brian, can I ask you one last question before we go?

Ryan (96:22)

Yes.

RJ (96:22)

So one thing that I found really funny when I got to talk to Peter was that he actually knows, like. Likes to talk about Goose. Like, he's a fan. Is he good at Goose? Like, the way that we always joke that, like, people in Fish are not good at Fish. Is he good at Goose?

Ryan (96:36)

Peter is better than a lot of people who are fans of Goose.

Megan (96:39)

Goose.

RJ (96:41)

Okay, we're gonna talk.

Ryan (96:43)

We're gonna get to talk to him tomorrow about his personal jam rankings. But, yeah, he's. His. His rankings are. Are very solid. He. He helped seed the bracket this year. He submitted a list which has been kept a secret. We may or may not be revealing it tomorrow. Wow. But, yeah, he's. He's. He's better than you'd expect a member of a band to be at analyzing their own music. And that's because he's a nerd like the rest of us. We love that.

RJ (97:09)

Yeah. Great guy. That's gonna be fun.

Brian (97:11)

Always a good guest.

Ryan (97:12)

Yeah.

RJ (97:13)

Yeah.

Ryan (97:13)

If he put together tour highlight playlists, they'd be better than Mike's. We can do that for sure. There would not be a California magic on it, you know, for the. For the equivalence.

Megan (97:25)

Okay, that's enough. That's enough slander for now. All right, guys. You know the number. Our number is 4 8. 4, 4. 160488. Call us and leave us a message. Also, if you submit it, a list for. For B Jin. But you have things that you want to say. Feel free to leave us a voicemail. We're going to be back next week. Thanks, Ryan, for joining us.

Ryan (97:45)

Thank you.

Brian (97:46)

I have to say one more thing. I'm sorry, I know that this is.

Megan (97:50)

Bye. Have a good week.

Brian (97:52)

We have two podcasts next week. Two podcasts. We are double headering it next week. Two podcasts. We got Library card and we've got the launch of the Mount Rushmore draft. Back to back, back. And when we reach the end of one podcast and RJ is sitting in this chair like that, like, oh, my God, I gotta leave in 10 minutes. We'll have a whole nother podcast for you all. So I just want you all to be ready next Monday. Huge, huge day here at Osiris Media where we launch a new series and we talk about what book, Meg, what are we talking about next Monday?

RJ (98:25)

We're talking about Demon Copperhead by Barbara King Solver. Epic book. And it's going to be so fun to get into. And we've already been having a pretty cool conversation about it offline, so I know it's going to be really rich on. On air. So Library Card is really going deep and I hope people are checking it out. So, yeah, if you want to join us for doubleheader next week, we're going to give RJ all the pee breaks he wants. Brian and I are going to have all the seltzer we need. It's going to be amazing. So please join us.

Megan (98:51)

Oh, my God. All right. Are we allowed to. Are we allowed to end now?

Ryan (98:54)

Wait, I have one more thing.

Brian (98:56)

Do we. Do we have any reprise shows to promote?

Megan (98:59)

No, we don't. We already did it. And we also, we want everyone to go. Go listen to. To always. Almost there. Go listen to Ryan and his friends, including Neil. Neil.

RJ (99:07)

We love you, Neil.

Megan (99:08)

Love you. Thanks for keeping. All right, guys, we're gonna see you next week. For real this time. I'm ending the stream, so that'll be it.

Brian (99:16)

Bye.

RJ (99:17)

Thanks for having me.

Ryan (99:28)

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RJ (100:45)

The number you have reached is 100.7 wns.

Ryan (100:48)

It wasn't just a radio station, it.

Megan (100:50)

Was Cleveland is a rock and roll city for sure.

Ryan (100:58)

The Wrath of the Buzzer WMMS Cleveland the Rise and Fall of One of the Most Iconic Radio Stations in America Profiles the Wrath of the Buzzard Proh Files subscribe now wherever you get podcasts.